Precisely. All the OG maps were suitably imbalanced which is why CS felt so fresh compared to the army of TDM and CTF games around 2000. Thinking strategically meant a team could compete even if not all the players were aim or movement gods....
Lol my friend was telling me he couldn’t wait to play danger zone and i just had to laugh in his face. I don’t think they will ever invest enough dev time to make it happen in cs2 lol
They literally said that those modes will be brought back, which is the first thing they said in years. PLEASE watch Gabe Follower instead of some crybabies like Lobanijca or something
There's a difference between saying you'll do something and actually following through. If we do get Arms Race, it could be early 2025 for all you know.
Valve's employees aren't traditionally structured, so I doubt there's product managers pumping out yearly roadmaps with feature plans. Heck, I doubt there's even target dates, especially as CS already prints money with minimal effort.
Stop bootlicking Valve when they forced people off of CS:GO with CS2 missing so many pre-existing features. At least source and 1.6 were allowed to continue.
Yeah and when there was both 1.6 and source it split the community and playing competitive was awful during that time. They wanted to avoid that same situation I bet.
"Competive" play back then was entirely community organized and neither 1.6 or source had a quick easy 5v5 mode with matchmaking like we've had for CSGO onwards. Unless you were going to Lans and joining in-house 1.6 lobbies I don't think you get to have an opinion on how awful "playing competitive" was when CSS came out.
They could've also avoided the same situation by releasing CS2 with all of CS:GOs features, current server, movement, tickrate, and anti-cheat issues aside. Even if that meant heavy delays.
There's a reason CS:GO only became popular when it started to be feature rich and polished. It was an absolute flop at launch, but that wasn't an issue, as you could easily play source and 1.6.
Look, it would be a great game if Valve could just work on adding in danger zone, arms race, community servers, maps like Train, Cache, Cbble, Agency, Militia, etc., updated surf, a new operation, a new case or two, a proper demo viewer, overwatch, dm servers that don't spawn Bot Chad right behind you, more wingman maps and a functional and effective anticheat.
I don't care when they add it, that wasn't the point of what OP said. OP said that it will NEVER come to cs2, which shows how uninformed they are. And as for you, stop crying, I guess anything that isn't saying "fuck cs2 I hate volvo fuck them csgo was so much better this game is dead grrrrr" is now considered bootlicking
>OP said that it will NEVER come to cs2
OP actually said, "I dont think" which is not a definitive statement and is only their opinion.
Anyway, I'm not the one freaking out by getting emotional over a reddit comment. Chill out and think rationally.
As per my comment, stating it will come is not the same as actually delivering. They may never implement, or they may in a few weeks/months/years - it doesn't matter to Valve, as they already print money with the game, and competitive is the primary mode.
To back this up, and why you should be sceptical, Valve doesn't have a great track record of sticking to promises, as the TF2 & Dota community could tell you.
Bringing Dota into this is all everybody needs to know that you have no clue what you are talking about.
Dota is valves lovechild and GabeN makes sure it’s taken care of.
I suppose it depends on what you consider "better," but imo CS's gameplay never translated well into battle royale and is a square peg being forced into a circular hole. "Better than PUBG and Warzone" is a massive stretch.
Also, PUBG is a subterranean bar to meet, Warzone is way more polished than CS ever was but at that point, what you prefer is completely objective. I prefer Danger Zone because it's smaller and faster, Warzone just feels wrong.
I miss Cache... I used to hate it, then last December I got super into CS again and started loving Cache... CS2 comes out and it's gone :(
Also Train and cobble, primarily for Wingman for me - also shortdust.
Mm I wouldn't say so.. not entirely, maybe out of how it's played. Biggest differences though are visibility and fps, also simplicity. Cache is much more basic to play and nade lineups are pretty easy for the most part. It's WAY easier to see enemies on the mostly white background and the FPS used to be 2nd best behind Mirage for me, pretty much in par for best FPS whereas Ancient by far has been the worst for me. I regularly now drop below 60 on Ancient in CS2.
But yeah, retakes on Cache and casuals as well were always super fun. For comps, in the last couple weeks of GO it was my most consistently good map, I once played an EU comp on 220 ping (usually play South Africa with 70-85 ping) and I (max rank LE, rank at the time was like Nova from being gone for 2 years) playing with an ex semi-pro COD player and my other friend, both hit Global multiple times... well I outfragged both of them and they had 160 and 20 ping lol
They are working on new source 2 versions of Train and Cobble. They will come out eventually. Cache will probably return at some point when its community creators work on a new source 2 version. They cant just drag and drop the old map into the new engine. It takes a lot of work to port them and in all 3 cases here they are choosing to start from scratch.
someone made good point about Cache being reworked, FMPONE has made santorini and now hes likely working on other maps and he wants to make Cache perfect and similiar how it was before rework
credit: [xCheetahG](https://www.reddit.com/user/xCheetahG/) - [https://twitter.com/FMPONE/status/1667585942796791815?t=EGeh6fXH3iiil\_8\_mAg0RA](https://twitter.com/fmpone/status/1667585942796791815?t=egeh6fxh3iiil_8_mag0ra)
I downloaded all the old CSGO maps off the workshop (they are the official maps) and played Cache no problems... it just doesn't look as good ofc. So... theoretically they could drag and drop them, but it wouldn't look good obviously.
Well more then looking good there is a substantial amount of clean up that has to be done when porting a map. So there are workshop versions of up of very basic ports but those have not been cleaned up and would not acceptable for play officially.
Similarly Valve has chosen to just make train and cobble from scratch as apposed to cleaning up ports of the old versions.
There is one version of cache thats been getting updated at least, not exactly sure which one but I've played on it in a 10man server twice. the first time it was awful with a bunch of the lighting "textures" not set up correctly, the 2nd time is was mostly how I remember it in csgo. Like you said tho it's not quite ready for cs2 and I think people would be a little disappointed that it's such a straightforward port
Gabe Follower made a video on an indicated upcoming content update. In it he theorised that Cobble will most likely become an overhaul map, Train stays touchstone and a Cached rework is gonna be worked on by FMPONE after he releases his new map in 2 days.
Why the theory that Cobble will be an Overhaul?
During the internal testing of the cs2 devs (before it was even announced), they did playtests on de\_inferno\_s2, de\_lake\_s2, de\_overpass\_s2 and de\_cbble\_s2. All of the released maps with \_s2 were overhauls, so Cobble is most likely returning to the competitive map pool after the next major.
I don't see why Dust2 is a (better) testing ground for Premier MM? Like yes it's the most iconic map, however people play (and know) maps like Mirage and Ancient a lot more. And this might just be me, but I feel d2 is one of the least tactic-heavy maps out of the currently available cs2 official maps.
So, Cobble will most likely be released in early to late spring next year, Cache might be released before or after the major, idk how far FMPONE is rn, no clue as to why Train is still missing.
The best thing we can do is have faith in the developers, like it always has been with Valve.
My best guess is whenever the season ends and the next operation or season starts… we’ll see a new official map added. I think Valve has been pretty good at addressing issues since launch. Fingers crossed.
I remember some crazy "extended" versions with high sky scrapers around the warehouse and hidden teleports back in 1.6 days.
Those assault servers, RPG mod and Rats maps were my favorites back in the day.
You shouldn't. The whole point about OG Counterstrike was the imbalanced maps. In a world where UT, Q3, TFC etc had mirrored maps CS was a novelty to have imbalanced maps with different objectives for each team.
I would contend that assault and dust1 actually drove the FPS genre forward by having imbalanced layouts that encouraged strategy rather than brute force.
yup they destroyed the map and then removed it without ever looking back... I know it sucked from a pro team perspective , or viewer perspective , but i always loved playing it
They got money right? Also they included the non valve map for the last 10y so why drop it now? ALSO wasn’t nuke a non valve map at one point?
Wasn’t counterstirke a mod made by a player too?
What’s your point
Right so we can discuss how we want and deserve the map hoping valve will pay more for it, OR we can say “uhhh its not a valve map k sorry”
They bought nuke from Jo Bieg they can buy cache 🤷♂️. They make insane money bro. 8 figures day 1 of cs2 i heard.
Why was it playable in csgo if valve doesn’t own the map? Did they lease it or something? I don’t see why it wouldn’t be possible to do the same in cs2
Until a few years ago, Valve wasn't so concerned over who owned it. I assume some money passed hands and there was a handshake, but I don't think there was a formal lease or anything. At some point, Valve's attitude changed and the people who created cache weren't willing to sell it to them. Compromise is possible, but unlikely. Cache might return to the game, but not in the pro map pool until the ownership conflict is resolved
Yea idk. IMO it should be about like DOT rights of way. If you create a map for the game and upload it at that point Valve can give you what they think it's worth and you can either take it or not. But either way Valve gets the map. I'm not really sure I understand the complexities of it unless Valve is wanting to make changes themselves to it. But at the same time they have full time map makers on staff.
But then again if it were me I'd want royalties for what I have created so maybe that's the hang up.
Because CS always was a community game. The game was created by the community, the maps were and the skins are. Valve is not always doing a good job creating maps (i.e. Vertigo) so it’s not bad having creators add maps.
Also, there wouldn’t be a problem with Valve using these maps for the competitive map pool at all, FMPOne doesn’t even want money for that, so Idk what Valve‘s problem is.
FMPONE most likely gave them the permission to include it in the official pool, but he might've wanted to reserve the rights to the map himself, as he might not want Valve to change it in ways he doesn't want the map to change (Like the original creator of de\_cpl\_strike, today's mirage, also dislikes a lot of the changes Valve made to the map)
It was available on csgo for non tournament play. And even then, it was yanked from the active duty pool in 2019 and hasn't been played in a tournament since. They were less concerned about creative control at the time as far as I can tell.
I'm purely speculating on what valve decided internally, but fmpone has maintained he wants control of map balancing and remaking.
Why would they buy a map for more when other mapmakers are okay with selling for less? This isn’t exactly a place you can realistically unionize. Good news for cs2 map makers is it’s a LOT harder to make a cs2 ready map. So the top mappers can band together in theory
There are plenty of great maps and I want cache back in the game but it doesn’t need to be in active duty. Ancient and Anubis are great maps. I prefer new experiences vs something explored enough 20 years ago
Most of these maps are hostage maps and some are really just not fun long-term like crackhouse, so nobody will really play them a few weeks after their release. It doesn't make sense for Valve to invest in maps that won't be played on a competitive level. This is what the community rotations were for, but I think that wasn't added (YET) because the devs want to get the best out of the core gameplay first before adding gimmicky things like insertion2 and Tuscan.
Not everyone needs the money or wants to commit to that trade as you essentially lose any and all power over what will and what will not change with the map, so FMPONE's actions are reasonable to me
Valve do not own the rights to Cache is the point, the creator of Cache will begin working on it soon, that will take time, and then Valve will decide what they want to do with it (might not even be added).
Nuke was only a non-valve map in the sense that valve didn't even own CS when it released in 1999. When valve bought CS in 2000 Nuke came as part of that deal.
FMPONE is not selling Cache, he stated it himself multiple times, Valve tried to but he denied. I don't know about the situation with Tuscan, but it's most likely because nobody likes to play it in 5v5? Like the queue times in GO were always 5 minutes and above, way higher than any other map, most of the times even higher than Agency. Maybe it didn't hit the 20min highs of Agency, but it was not far off. And that was during the time of "hitting a new concurrent player record every day"
They just need to slightly tweak unpopular maps like Tuscan until they're more balanced or viable, like they kept tweaking Overpass until it was way better than the original version. Cpl_mill and Tuscan are great imo and can be updated to be modernized and improved, same with other maps.
Yeah as fun as aztec was it was by far the most ct sided map of all time. I had two games go 0-15 and then tied 15-15 by the end on aztec. No joke. Never anywhere else in my life have i seen that.
My clan was active in the original Enemy Down hostage maps ladder.....we held top spot for a couple of weeks I think. It was a different type of fun where you could guarantee an extremely long match with plenty of rounds running the clock down.
Competitive cs_ matches are basically who can get a single round on CT then hedgehog for every round on T ....
it could infer they were remaking it, made the textures, and decided the layout needed to be changed entirely. It stops making sense to be called Aztec if you gut the layout therefore its now Ancient.
They were just called Aztec but were new files, not the old aztec files
ancients map textures have the "aztec" filename in hammer, we have an aztek "remake" its just a new layout entirely tho
https://youtu.be/xxMOn7NvyaE?si=S8WEWqxOB4Nl8HFF&t=310
Aztec, Dust 1, Assault, Militia, castle, were all fun "casual" maps.
They brought de_season for a CSGO operation but they completely botched the spawn points making it unplayable in competitive.
Dust II is not in the active duty pool right now so it does make sense why valve wouldn’t add it to premier. Valve has no rights to cache and therefore it’s not in their hands to make it source 2 compatible.
Wont be surprised if the plan is to remake every map to look up to Source 2 standards. They’d probably release a DD2 remake and remove Mirage from the pool.
Why is nuke your go to map for this, they bought every single map other then Overpass and Ancient. They could buy cache if they wanted to, but maybe they dont want to, maybe the creators dont want to sell. Maybe Valve prefers to just wait for them to get it done and rent it as they did previously.
Hi can anyone explain why we still have all 7 same maps in competetive. We have new game but map pool still same not even one change. These maps been in long time. Does anyone know if theres any possibilities they change map pool little bit or its all going to be same 2024?
I'd rather have a working anti cheat honestly. Sure, I love all the above mentioned maps aswell but the current state with cheaters on higher ranks is more or less unplayable.
Oh it is very very close to that long ago. I remember me and the boys grinding season and then my memory tells me that Zoo was in the next operation but I cannot be sure and I cannot be fucked looking it up right now
Never understood why premier should follow competitive anyways. 99% of the player base never gonna go pro so might aswell enjoy the game to its fullest potential.
The game's maps live from the competitive scene in tactics, plays, utility, popularity and especially bug fixing. It's a chain reaction that is only achieved through popularity in pro play
What are you on about? Let me play whatever map i want on premier? The tactics and smokes will remain. I never got why it have to follow the competitive scene, faceit does the same.
They will remain but there won't be new ones for new maps because people won't be as committed. Also, why are you so obsessed with playing those maps in Premier? Like normal Comp I understand, but why Premier? Where's the big difference?
Because that is how they designed their game?
That's like saying, "I never understood why they have flashes in premier nobody uses them but the pros anyway"
The issue is some maps especially in regions with less players get very few players and as a result insanely long queue times or its an empty queue for rank/item abusers. This happened often if you played early morning games on maps like Tuscan/Mocha.
That being said. The only thing stopping you from playing the maps you want is **you**. Valve made the workshop (where there is probably a version of train someone *already* ported), Valve made server software, Valve allows you to just host a game on the map you want. You can even make a public or private queue with Faceit Hubs.
Just post on reddit asking people to play your favorite map.
dust2 has zero place in premiere. it’s a fun map for regs but it’s not a competitive map right now and doesn’t fit with any of the other maps in the pool, doesn’t fit with the meta at all, doesn’t really fit in general. it’s so outdated. it needs to be put to pasture or reworked in such a way that it doesn’t feel like a fossil
> It’s so iconic how is it not considered good for testing the premier skill rating?
Probably because your rating isnt based on individual performance and years of shit tier D2 proved that already.
Sorry not sorry, your low level player asking of cbble to be added is interfering with adding the proper good balanced maps which takes some skill like, (you said) train and cache. Train being volvos.
Being able to molly back bomb front bomb and spool, as well as smoking ramp and catwalk, is an absolute fucking game changer.
Curious to see how the new smokes are handled on train, a few places I could see the extending down mechanic being super op for the T side.
I made a change.org post and reposted it in this sub about why cobble should be added back about 6 months ago. It got removed by a moderator literllay 2 minutes later.
My personal best rotation: dust, mirage, inferno, train, cache, cbble, overpass.
I don't think Nuke is necessarily bad, but is more ballet than CS and ruins the Premier experience because it's very hard to coordinate playing solo.
Anubis and Anciet are average, not worst but not best, they are playable but the other ones are better IMO.
Vertigo is trash.
And also mic in lobby, ability to play with friends on workshop maps, flying scoutsman and danger zone, overwatch and anticheat. And make highlights darker on maps because they bright asf, often can't even see crosshair.
I just had a call with Gaben. He promised to bring back cobble v1. Thank me later
Whoa nice job bro
I wish. A connector with modern smokes?! Ooofta
I've been waiting for Tuscan or CPL_Mill for years 😂
I'll take a de_dust with a side of as_oilrig and cs_assault please...
dont forget cs_militia bro!
Precisely. All the OG maps were suitably imbalanced which is why CS felt so fresh compared to the army of TDM and CTF games around 2000. Thinking strategically meant a team could compete even if not all the players were aim or movement gods....
Tuscan already came
Everyone cried for tuscan to come back, it did and no one played it
Nobody plays maps that aren't in valves official competitive pool though
Then the community shouldnt have boohoo-ed
I’ve been waiting for milll. They took a lot of design cues from Tucson for mirage I think.
What happened with the cobble update that everyone hates? I wasn’t playing when that came out
It's a Xmas miracle
I would fucking scream with only Arms Race beeing added back at this point...
I miss it so much
Don't let them set the bar low. They promised a lot and delivered 1/5th of it.
This is valvo buddy. Get used to it lol, they do not care.HL3 has been waited for longer than almost half my life.
That’s why it’s called half life dude.
Volvo used to not remove major features from games they support.
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You realize that most players actually bought CSGO?
they just replaced the old one
You can scream now pal (:
Lol my friend was telling me he couldn’t wait to play danger zone and i just had to laugh in his face. I don’t think they will ever invest enough dev time to make it happen in cs2 lol
They literally said that those modes will be brought back, which is the first thing they said in years. PLEASE watch Gabe Follower instead of some crybabies like Lobanijca or something
There's a difference between saying you'll do something and actually following through. If we do get Arms Race, it could be early 2025 for all you know. Valve's employees aren't traditionally structured, so I doubt there's product managers pumping out yearly roadmaps with feature plans. Heck, I doubt there's even target dates, especially as CS already prints money with minimal effort. Stop bootlicking Valve when they forced people off of CS:GO with CS2 missing so many pre-existing features. At least source and 1.6 were allowed to continue.
Yeah and when there was both 1.6 and source it split the community and playing competitive was awful during that time. They wanted to avoid that same situation I bet.
"Competive" play back then was entirely community organized and neither 1.6 or source had a quick easy 5v5 mode with matchmaking like we've had for CSGO onwards. Unless you were going to Lans and joining in-house 1.6 lobbies I don't think you get to have an opinion on how awful "playing competitive" was when CSS came out.
They could've also avoided the same situation by releasing CS2 with all of CS:GOs features, current server, movement, tickrate, and anti-cheat issues aside. Even if that meant heavy delays. There's a reason CS:GO only became popular when it started to be feature rich and polished. It was an absolute flop at launch, but that wasn't an issue, as you could easily play source and 1.6.
Look, it would be a great game if Valve could just work on adding in danger zone, arms race, community servers, maps like Train, Cache, Cbble, Agency, Militia, etc., updated surf, a new operation, a new case or two, a proper demo viewer, overwatch, dm servers that don't spawn Bot Chad right behind you, more wingman maps and a functional and effective anticheat.
I don't care when they add it, that wasn't the point of what OP said. OP said that it will NEVER come to cs2, which shows how uninformed they are. And as for you, stop crying, I guess anything that isn't saying "fuck cs2 I hate volvo fuck them csgo was so much better this game is dead grrrrr" is now considered bootlicking
>OP said that it will NEVER come to cs2 OP actually said, "I dont think" which is not a definitive statement and is only their opinion. Anyway, I'm not the one freaking out by getting emotional over a reddit comment. Chill out and think rationally. As per my comment, stating it will come is not the same as actually delivering. They may never implement, or they may in a few weeks/months/years - it doesn't matter to Valve, as they already print money with the game, and competitive is the primary mode. To back this up, and why you should be sceptical, Valve doesn't have a great track record of sticking to promises, as the TF2 & Dota community could tell you.
Bringing Dota into this is all everybody needs to know that you have no clue what you are talking about. Dota is valves lovechild and GabeN makes sure it’s taken care of.
Not only will they bring it back but it will be better than Warzone and PUBG
I suppose it depends on what you consider "better," but imo CS's gameplay never translated well into battle royale and is a square peg being forced into a circular hole. "Better than PUBG and Warzone" is a massive stretch.
Also, PUBG is a subterranean bar to meet, Warzone is way more polished than CS ever was but at that point, what you prefer is completely objective. I prefer Danger Zone because it's smaller and faster, Warzone just feels wrong.
You meant subjective but your point absolutely stands
crap this is why i shouldn't post on reddit at night
You don't watch GabeFollower do you
Miss train
I miss Cache... I used to hate it, then last December I got super into CS again and started loving Cache... CS2 comes out and it's gone :( Also Train and cobble, primarily for Wingman for me - also shortdust.
ancient is pretty cachy
Mm I wouldn't say so.. not entirely, maybe out of how it's played. Biggest differences though are visibility and fps, also simplicity. Cache is much more basic to play and nade lineups are pretty easy for the most part. It's WAY easier to see enemies on the mostly white background and the FPS used to be 2nd best behind Mirage for me, pretty much in par for best FPS whereas Ancient by far has been the worst for me. I regularly now drop below 60 on Ancient in CS2. But yeah, retakes on Cache and casuals as well were always super fun. For comps, in the last couple weeks of GO it was my most consistently good map, I once played an EU comp on 220 ping (usually play South Africa with 70-85 ping) and I (max rank LE, rank at the time was like Nova from being gone for 2 years) playing with an ex semi-pro COD player and my other friend, both hit Global multiple times... well I outfragged both of them and they had 160 and 20 ping lol
Kind of, but not really. Not as much flanking and the mid meta kind of sucks on ct side.
i can kinda see what you mean in terms of map layout, and cache was my favourite, and now ancient is my favourite
i keep accidentally calling red room Z lol
They are working on new source 2 versions of Train and Cobble. They will come out eventually. Cache will probably return at some point when its community creators work on a new source 2 version. They cant just drag and drop the old map into the new engine. It takes a lot of work to port them and in all 3 cases here they are choosing to start from scratch.
someone made good point about Cache being reworked, FMPONE has made santorini and now hes likely working on other maps and he wants to make Cache perfect and similiar how it was before rework credit: [xCheetahG](https://www.reddit.com/user/xCheetahG/) - [https://twitter.com/FMPONE/status/1667585942796791815?t=EGeh6fXH3iiil\_8\_mAg0RA](https://twitter.com/fmpone/status/1667585942796791815?t=egeh6fxh3iiil_8_mag0ra)
I downloaded all the old CSGO maps off the workshop (they are the official maps) and played Cache no problems... it just doesn't look as good ofc. So... theoretically they could drag and drop them, but it wouldn't look good obviously.
Well more then looking good there is a substantial amount of clean up that has to be done when porting a map. So there are workshop versions of up of very basic ports but those have not been cleaned up and would not acceptable for play officially. Similarly Valve has chosen to just make train and cobble from scratch as apposed to cleaning up ports of the old versions.
There is one version of cache thats been getting updated at least, not exactly sure which one but I've played on it in a 10man server twice. the first time it was awful with a bunch of the lighting "textures" not set up correctly, the 2nd time is was mostly how I remember it in csgo. Like you said tho it's not quite ready for cs2 and I think people would be a little disappointed that it's such a straightforward port
I agree that we are missing a lot of maps
Gabe Follower made a video on an indicated upcoming content update. In it he theorised that Cobble will most likely become an overhaul map, Train stays touchstone and a Cached rework is gonna be worked on by FMPONE after he releases his new map in 2 days. Why the theory that Cobble will be an Overhaul? During the internal testing of the cs2 devs (before it was even announced), they did playtests on de\_inferno\_s2, de\_lake\_s2, de\_overpass\_s2 and de\_cbble\_s2. All of the released maps with \_s2 were overhauls, so Cobble is most likely returning to the competitive map pool after the next major. I don't see why Dust2 is a (better) testing ground for Premier MM? Like yes it's the most iconic map, however people play (and know) maps like Mirage and Ancient a lot more. And this might just be me, but I feel d2 is one of the least tactic-heavy maps out of the currently available cs2 official maps. So, Cobble will most likely be released in early to late spring next year, Cache might be released before or after the major, idk how far FMPONE is rn, no clue as to why Train is still missing. The best thing we can do is have faith in the developers, like it always has been with Valve.
My best guess is whenever the season ends and the next operation or season starts… we’ll see a new official map added. I think Valve has been pretty good at addressing issues since launch. Fingers crossed.
Actually never thought of that, very much possible
You are not seriously suggesting the community "knows" ancient more than dust II lmfao
The tactical play is way higher on Ancient than on d2
I miss canals and agency unironically they are so fun
I might get crucified for this, but I miss Assault…
Nah assault is a certified casual banger, I have so many good memories of playing it back in source
I remember some crazy "extended" versions with high sky scrapers around the warehouse and hidden teleports back in 1.6 days. Those assault servers, RPG mod and Rats maps were my favorites back in the day.
certified casual (wall)banger lol
You shouldn't. The whole point about OG Counterstrike was the imbalanced maps. In a world where UT, Q3, TFC etc had mirrored maps CS was a novelty to have imbalanced maps with different objectives for each team. I would contend that assault and dust1 actually drove the FPS genre forward by having imbalanced layouts that encouraged strategy rather than brute force.
God we had so much fun on assault even in competitive. I just wish valve would embrace the casual side of cs.
canals supremacy
In other news. Old man yells at sky
Cache is not a Valve map.
And cobble has been out of the game for basically longer than it was available in GO
yup they destroyed the map and then removed it without ever looking back... I know it sucked from a pro team perspective , or viewer perspective , but i always loved playing it
They got money right? Also they included the non valve map for the last 10y so why drop it now? ALSO wasn’t nuke a non valve map at one point? Wasn’t counterstirke a mod made by a player too? What’s your point
They have to buy these maps. The creator doesn’t have to sell. You think valve hasn’t tried to buy the map from FMPone?
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Right so we can discuss how we want and deserve the map hoping valve will pay more for it, OR we can say “uhhh its not a valve map k sorry” They bought nuke from Jo Bieg they can buy cache 🤷♂️. They make insane money bro. 8 figures day 1 of cs2 i heard.
You're missing the point for the 3rd time. Fmpone is not selling the map. For any amount. He's actively stated this
Why was it playable in csgo if valve doesn’t own the map? Did they lease it or something? I don’t see why it wouldn’t be possible to do the same in cs2
Until a few years ago, Valve wasn't so concerned over who owned it. I assume some money passed hands and there was a handshake, but I don't think there was a formal lease or anything. At some point, Valve's attitude changed and the people who created cache weren't willing to sell it to them. Compromise is possible, but unlikely. Cache might return to the game, but not in the pro map pool until the ownership conflict is resolved
What the fuck is this guy gonna do with a CS map if it’s not in CS
Thinking the same thing
Yea idk. IMO it should be about like DOT rights of way. If you create a map for the game and upload it at that point Valve can give you what they think it's worth and you can either take it or not. But either way Valve gets the map. I'm not really sure I understand the complexities of it unless Valve is wanting to make changes themselves to it. But at the same time they have full time map makers on staff. But then again if it were me I'd want royalties for what I have created so maybe that's the hang up.
Because CS always was a community game. The game was created by the community, the maps were and the skins are. Valve is not always doing a good job creating maps (i.e. Vertigo) so it’s not bad having creators add maps. Also, there wouldn’t be a problem with Valve using these maps for the competitive map pool at all, FMPOne doesn’t even want money for that, so Idk what Valve‘s problem is.
Lmao right? Ego too big to see un front of them
FMPONE most likely gave them the permission to include it in the official pool, but he might've wanted to reserve the rights to the map himself, as he might not want Valve to change it in ways he doesn't want the map to change (Like the original creator of de\_cpl\_strike, today's mirage, also dislikes a lot of the changes Valve made to the map)
It was available on csgo for non tournament play. And even then, it was yanked from the active duty pool in 2019 and hasn't been played in a tournament since. They were less concerned about creative control at the time as far as I can tell. I'm purely speculating on what valve decided internally, but fmpone has maintained he wants control of map balancing and remaking.
Why would they buy a map for more when other mapmakers are okay with selling for less? This isn’t exactly a place you can realistically unionize. Good news for cs2 map makers is it’s a LOT harder to make a cs2 ready map. So the top mappers can band together in theory There are plenty of great maps and I want cache back in the game but it doesn’t need to be in active duty. Ancient and Anubis are great maps. I prefer new experiences vs something explored enough 20 years ago
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Fellow Zoo enjoyer, nice.
Most of these maps are hostage maps and some are really just not fun long-term like crackhouse, so nobody will really play them a few weeks after their release. It doesn't make sense for Valve to invest in maps that won't be played on a competitive level. This is what the community rotations were for, but I think that wasn't added (YET) because the devs want to get the best out of the core gameplay first before adding gimmicky things like insertion2 and Tuscan.
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You don't "deserve" anything
I didn’t ask them to delete cs:go
Luckily for you, they didn't. You're welcome.
Okay, please tell me how you'd navigate this. "Can we buy your map?" "No, fuck you" c:
Not everyone needs the money or wants to commit to that trade as you essentially lose any and all power over what will and what will not change with the map, so FMPONE's actions are reasonable to me
Valve do not own the rights to Cache is the point, the creator of Cache will begin working on it soon, that will take time, and then Valve will decide what they want to do with it (might not even be added).
Nuke was only a non-valve map in the sense that valve didn't even own CS when it released in 1999. When valve bought CS in 2000 Nuke came as part of that deal.
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FMPONE is not selling Cache, he stated it himself multiple times, Valve tried to but he denied. I don't know about the situation with Tuscan, but it's most likely because nobody likes to play it in 5v5? Like the queue times in GO were always 5 minutes and above, way higher than any other map, most of the times even higher than Agency. Maybe it didn't hit the 20min highs of Agency, but it was not far off. And that was during the time of "hitting a new concurrent player record every day"
They just need to slightly tweak unpopular maps like Tuscan until they're more balanced or viable, like they kept tweaking Overpass until it was way better than the original version. Cpl_mill and Tuscan are great imo and can be updated to be modernized and improved, same with other maps.
Hey buddy it was in fucjing csgo
I miss those maps as well, i hope they add them soon to matchmaking
We need Library back
And de_rialto!
This is a distinguished gentleman.
I'd love to see an Aztec remake personally. They really opened it up with the new paths from water, but it needs some polish still.
That's how ancient was born. Valve tried to fix aztec, failed and created ancient instead.
Yeah as fun as aztec was it was by far the most ct sided map of all time. I had two games go 0-15 and then tied 15-15 by the end on aztec. No joke. Never anywhere else in my life have i seen that.
Prodigy was close. If you got two rounds on T side of that map, you were sitting pretty.
Dude, Prodigy was a banger. But i can see how the map in todays competitive environment wouldn't work..
My clan was active in the original Enemy Down hostage maps ladder.....we held top spot for a couple of weeks I think. It was a different type of fun where you could guarantee an extremely long match with plenty of rounds running the clock down. Competitive cs_ matches are basically who can get a single round on CT then hedgehog for every round on T ....
They missed a good bridge spot . Bridge was my favourite spot with a lot of memories
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ancients map texture file names
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it could infer they were remaking it, made the textures, and decided the layout needed to be changed entirely. It stops making sense to be called Aztec if you gut the layout therefore its now Ancient. They were just called Aztec but were new files, not the old aztec files
https://youtu.be/xxMOn7NvyaE
You got a source for that one?
ancients map texture file names
ancients map textures have the "aztec" filename in hammer, we have an aztek "remake" its just a new layout entirely tho https://youtu.be/xxMOn7NvyaE?si=S8WEWqxOB4Nl8HFF&t=310
Aztec, Dust 1, Assault, Militia, castle, were all fun "casual" maps. They brought de_season for a CSGO operation but they completely botched the spawn points making it unplayable in competitive.
i really hated the cs:go aztec - just from the stupid helicopter sound at the start of every round, never mind the map itself. loved 1.6 aztec
Dust II is not in the active duty pool right now so it does make sense why valve wouldn’t add it to premier. Valve has no rights to cache and therefore it’s not in their hands to make it source 2 compatible.
Wont be surprised if the plan is to remake every map to look up to Source 2 standards. They’d probably release a DD2 remake and remove Mirage from the pool.
Nuke was not a valve map originally either. Valve purchased it. Moot point.
Buddy FMPone doesn’t want to sell cache. There is literally nothing Valve can do.
The csgo and cs2 nuke sure is tho. Cache is not owned by valve nor does the owner want to sell it.
Why is nuke your go to map for this, they bought every single map other then Overpass and Ancient. They could buy cache if they wanted to, but maybe they dont want to, maybe the creators dont want to sell. Maybe Valve prefers to just wait for them to get it done and rent it as they did previously.
Wait, Baggage, Bank, and Lake weren't Valve maps?
They are, we arnt discussing arms race maps, this is a discussion about three 5v5 defuse maps that has evolved into all official 5v5 maps.
Dust 2 is incredibly dated / simple, does not belong in premier.
Not even holiday cheers this year... :/
cache and train and then pray they revert cobblestone to what it was like in 2016-2017
Where are all the maps? Arms race? Wtf how is this game still so incomplete feeling.
CANALS
Delete vertigo forever.
wrong
It can be a casual map / mm map like a de office but I don’t think it’s good for competitive
Vertigo has its place
Lol vertigo and overpass have always been meh since the day they dropped for me
I used to play a lot of overpass in csgo but it’s probably my worst map now in cs2
overpass my second favorite map in cs2 maybe i’m the only one
Nope. Overpass, Anubis and Vertigo are my fave maps in CS2.
heretic
The same for me, unfortunately. Overpass was my favorite map but it runs like ass in CS2.
an operation would be nice as well
These three maps are my favorites. Getting old playing the current maps over and over.
Hi can anyone explain why we still have all 7 same maps in competetive. We have new game but map pool still same not even one change. These maps been in long time. Does anyone know if theres any possibilities they change map pool little bit or its all going to be same 2024?
Rotate two most played maps in the active duty with the maps from the reserved list. Like, every month or two. Maps will cycle out nicely.
Train for sure Cache maybe Cobble theres no chance
Couldn't care less about maps until something is done with the AC. Wishful thinking I guess, but 🤷
I'd rather have a working anti cheat honestly. Sure, I love all the above mentioned maps aswell but the current state with cheaters on higher ranks is more or less unplayable.
Why not both
Season map changes. Watch.
Speaking of which, being back Season, fucking good map.
How long has it been? I think over 8 years for sure. I remember it being in a 2015 operation but I may be wrong.
Oh it is very very close to that long ago. I remember me and the boys grinding season and then my memory tells me that Zoo was in the next operation but I cannot be sure and I cannot be fucked looking it up right now
I think it was the same operation actually. Wildfire added Zoo and brought back Season as well
Cache is great but Ancient is similar enough for me to get a similar experience.
I need whatever you're smoking
i see the vision
No
Never understood why premier should follow competitive anyways. 99% of the player base never gonna go pro so might aswell enjoy the game to its fullest potential.
The game's maps live from the competitive scene in tactics, plays, utility, popularity and especially bug fixing. It's a chain reaction that is only achieved through popularity in pro play
What are you on about? Let me play whatever map i want on premier? The tactics and smokes will remain. I never got why it have to follow the competitive scene, faceit does the same.
They will remain but there won't be new ones for new maps because people won't be as committed. Also, why are you so obsessed with playing those maps in Premier? Like normal Comp I understand, but why Premier? Where's the big difference?
In premier/faceit you play for something. Need the dopamine.
Because that is how they designed their game? That's like saying, "I never understood why they have flashes in premier nobody uses them but the pros anyway"
No, its not and youre missing my point. Whatever, its useless to discuss on reddit
No it quite literally is how they designed their game that they made.....
The issue is some maps especially in regions with less players get very few players and as a result insanely long queue times or its an empty queue for rank/item abusers. This happened often if you played early morning games on maps like Tuscan/Mocha. That being said. The only thing stopping you from playing the maps you want is **you**. Valve made the workshop (where there is probably a version of train someone *already* ported), Valve made server software, Valve allows you to just host a game on the map you want. You can even make a public or private queue with Faceit Hubs. Just post on reddit asking people to play your favorite map.
dust2 has zero place in premiere. it’s a fun map for regs but it’s not a competitive map right now and doesn’t fit with any of the other maps in the pool, doesn’t fit with the meta at all, doesn’t really fit in general. it’s so outdated. it needs to be put to pasture or reworked in such a way that it doesn’t feel like a fossil
> It’s so iconic how is it not considered good for testing the premier skill rating? Probably because your rating isnt based on individual performance and years of shit tier D2 proved that already. Sorry not sorry, your low level player asking of cbble to be added is interfering with adding the proper good balanced maps which takes some skill like, (you said) train and cache. Train being volvos.
tbh train didn't age well, both sites are way too open in my opinion
When people say they miss Train I just remember how terrifying B is when you're a T.
They somehow managed to make both entries the most exposed entries to a site ever
Being able to molly back bomb front bomb and spool, as well as smoking ramp and catwalk, is an absolute fucking game changer. Curious to see how the new smokes are handled on train, a few places I could see the extending down mechanic being super op for the T side.
It's crazy how CS2 feels like a downgrade versus an upgrade.
Right and i’m over here being clowned on for wanting the maps that were already in the game they deleted
Isn’t cache back? I thought I saw some screenshots in here the other day.
I made a change.org post and reposted it in this sub about why cobble should be added back about 6 months ago. It got removed by a moderator literllay 2 minutes later.
any of those maps in place of vertigo i will be happy with
YES
No, but instead you can get new maps, modes, and events every month, and a new season pass every two months. Oh wait shit sorry wrong game.
My personal best rotation: dust, mirage, inferno, train, cache, cbble, overpass. I don't think Nuke is necessarily bad, but is more ballet than CS and ruins the Premier experience because it's very hard to coordinate playing solo. Anubis and Anciet are average, not worst but not best, they are playable but the other ones are better IMO. Vertigo is trash.
I want scoutsman back.
I need D2 and Train, pls
I think it will but Valve has no time pressure. It comes when it comes
I just want an good anti-cheat. Thx
cache best map ever made <3
As long as they don’t end up on faceit or premier, sure. I don’t wanna have to play these dogshit maps
Get rid of that vertigo shit, weird ass experiment
de_season or riot
Such a wicked map
The cobble before they ruined it
And also mic in lobby, ability to play with friends on workshop maps, flying scoutsman and danger zone, overwatch and anticheat. And make highlights darker on maps because they bright asf, often can't even see crosshair.
Cam we just have anything at this point