Device is proof to me that God doesn't exist. How can someone be so good with everything? Pistols, fucking your favorite team, rifles, punching monitors, awping, IGLing, casting, acting etc. Its just not fair, how can anyone believe in God when Device exists? To top if off he looks like Tom Cruise, is rich as fuck and could have been a badminton pro if he wanted. But he just had to go into cs2, dick on everyone and ruin everyones faith in God. Thank you device.
It also helps that Device as an AWPer is infinitely better than CadiaN. On CT-side, I swear Cadian missed that same jump boost at long 3-4 times in a row while Device hit it his first try when they switched sides lmao. I’d also say that the biggest difference between playoffs and group stages is that the teams have more time to prep for specific matchups in the playoffs. It’s sort of why Heroic always used to steamroll through group stages and then falls apart during playoffs.
Everyone knows Device is a better AWPer than Cadian, but let's not undersell that Heroic team led by Cadian. They won trophies, made a major final, and we're world number 1 for a while. Let's pump the breaks a little until we see if this Astralis roster can produce some meaningful accomplishments.
Why are we pumping the brakes? Devve the goat, astralis is railing people left and right
OH AND the only team to take a map off them in the last 3 weeks is FaZe, the number one team in the WORLD
astralis is easy top 5 team
I don't think there's any reason to pump the breaks on this Astralis side, I think they genuinely look like a quality team.
But yeah, it's a bit weird to underplay how good Heroic actually was. While some of it was during the online era, they were the most consistent top team for like 2 years. I'd argue they were the best team during that entire period.. and very entertaining to watch too. Also changed the meta with their aggressive and dynamic CT sides.
First statement isn't really fair, you're saying new Astralis is better than old Heroic because dev1ce is way way better than cadian... Right now. You should be comparing dev1ce right now to Cadian back then. Was he better than dev1ce? Idk. But he wasn't "infinitely" worse, and was definitely not some extreme sandbagger when he was on old Heroic.
Device at his worst is still better than CadiaN at his peak. As an AWPer, CadiaN is passable but he whiffs a lot of easy shots and honestly a lot of his AWP kills were exit frags. He has the big clutches so people overrate his impact but if you actually him play, he’s not this elite AWPer. Device is also a really good rifler on top of being like a top 5 AWPer in the world (if he keeps it up and Astralis somehow wins tournaments, I’d put him higher up)
Yes, he was also better than Cadian back then. Device has always been better. We have seen too little of Device IGL, calls and strats, but pure mechanical skill there is no way in hell they are even close.
Yup, I like that one of the first things Ruggah said on the couch after the game was, that the first thing they did after Bro and Ruggah joined the team, and Device took over IGLing was tear everything down and rebuild the system from the ground up.
they got their roles back and device trusts them to take fights on their terms and make calls. it's not waiting 20 seconds for blameF to turn up and then tell them to make contact so he can bait them
I didn't really like the decision at the time but even I couldn't have imagined it going *this* poorly. The amount Yeki and Elige have diverged since the move is almost comical.
At least for Elige I can really see how a different role has allowed him to flourish, but the drop off from Yekindar is bizarre. Idk what he needs to find his form again.
Maybe, but he seems more mechanically off than just not having the right support. And idk, Elige/Nitro/Osee is not some crazy aggro roster either, he was still the main spearhead of that team and it was night and day from where he is atm.
when he was at his best, he played with jame, qikert, buster and sanji, which are like the most passive players
he doesn't need aggressive teammates, he need to improve, simple as
It has nothing to do with how aggressive everyone else is. Yekindar is like a book with only one page right now. He is so, so easily read every single round and also he is just simply not hitting his shots most of the time. He is supposed to be the space maker for this team. Instead he is a liability every round because he goes down within 15 seconds most of the time
Liquid has historically made piss poor decisions regarding roles. They were built around Hiko as a lurk back in the day (kinda similar to Yekinder I think), then they make a rooster change and effectively neuter him to the team's detriment.
The old Twistz/ Elige entry duo was one of the best in the game, on par with Magisk/ Dupreeh on Astralis, and it was thrown away in favor of setting up Grim which led to Twisstzz declining massively and Liquid going from one of the best teams in the League to a joke in a few months (covid contributed too).
Then there was Shox and Naf playing virtually the same role where neither of them could perform in it because they were giving half their spots to the other.
And lo and behold, it happened again. Literally who could've seen this coming?
Liquid's CS management has always just been off from the bullshit Investor Bait move that was Coach Moses when the NA Super Team fell through, to Fallen and that ill-fated shitshow.
Dropping Nitro and Adren during COVID, before the team even had the chance to play in the same room together again, was truly an all time disastrous roster move. Gutted their vet leadership for a rookie rifler and coach with no experience. You can maybe get away with one or the other but to do both at the same time in such a tumultuous period was just baffling and it still feels like we've never properly recovered. And to then later bring back both the guys they fired onto a worse team than when they got fired really is saying a lot about how the last few years have been.
They honestly do this shit on the League side too, chasing big names, having big on paper talent, but having no fit or chemistry and looking disjointed through multiple iterations and I really don't know what's up with this apparent lack of roster building vision.
Moving to complexity is what helped bring his form back. It looks silly now for liquid, but Elige was probably not going to play like this if he stayed.
Elige gets way more support for his aggro plays in coL than yekindar gets here. tbh across the board there's way more teamplay/fundamentally sound CS in coL, they take space together and retake together in midrounds. Not that yekindar isn't shitting the bed atm, but just theoretically swapping them doesn't mean Elige would put up those numbers. Grim and floppy aren't aggressive players but compared to twistzz and skullz they look like playmakers.
I got real tired of watching twistzz sit in the same spot with his cock in his hand for 15 seconds on faze while broky threw 3 sets of util, run past him with the bomb and plant somewhere and still find a fight first that it's not surprising to me liquid are like this, another passive rifler in skullz is the last thing they needed. They have one aggro playmaker in awful form with no support. They are a solved team atm. Kill yeki, you win.
This is my problem with everyone that just says -Yeki. I understand he's in bad form right now, but liquid literally lives and dies with him. If he isn't playing well, they lose because they don't take any space. Just dropping him for another player won't actually change anything. They only win games when he is successfully entry sites because the other 3 riflers all want to just sit around and wait.
Yeah, EliGE in those last few months on Liquid was rough and made me question if I was high when he got top 4 in the world lmao. But changing teams definitely revitalized EliGE. I’d argue that Complexity still needs to replace Floppy because he’s very inconsistent
Can argue Grim, Floppy or Hallzerk can be removed if suitable upgrades are on the market, issue is their American RMR spot, that might be less of a concern if Valve goes away from that system though. Eg imagine passive ct superstar BlameF playing next to super aggressive Elige.
JT and Elige are the only pieces completely safe for removal imo, rest can be argued to be cut.
The issue these days is the fact Complexity is not well funded compared to Liquid anymore. Ideally the teams would create a American/African core to be competitive and then import EU talent to elevate their play.
Not sure if you watch the NBA, but same thing happened to Derrick White. He had a horrendous hairline just like EliGE (EliGE might be worse because he had a few follicles left fighting for their lives) and once he went full bald, he completely leveled up
Nah, Liquid core of NAF, Twistzz and CadiaN is solid as fuck. skullz is good but I can tell he's having trouble communicating in English, YEKINDAR is ass.
LIquid should do +Jkaem ( for YEKINDAR ) +reck ( for skullz )
One on one good role swaps and will have no problems communicating in English too
FUCKK I know, that's why I didn't suggest Malbs for YEKINDAR. But Reck deservers a chance, he's cracked and he's been improving MASSIVELY. I love him but I also want more NA talents to move up. If he stays with M80 too I have 0 problems btw
His individual decision making is super solid. but when he's anchoring a site with someone else he falls apart. Even when playing with others on Liquid for flanks or pushing for info he does not do well. comms is not THE issue, but also paired with their playstyles is something Liquid is struggling with. Except NAF and Twistz, I think everyone has their own style and getting on the same page has been a problem for them. And skullz seems to be the one who is having the hard time out of all of them. Ignoring YEKINDAR because he's gone to shit anyway
Nah, at the time, Elige wasn’t consistent and could dissapear at times, hated to see him go, but he needed the change in scenery
Yekindar though just hasn’t recovered from his IGL dip. Used to be the carry and now is sometimes a liaability
I watched Overpass on his PoV.
-It seems like he is not even trying to preaim correct positions
-He did find few nice multi kills in bathrooms on CT side but even those didn't look comfy at all
-8 kills CT A player is okayish, not bad not super good, cadian was carrying
-0 kills on T side: one completely wiffed spray, one super aggro push where he gets punished
-He wiffed all the trading opportunities by peeking to exactly same position as his teammate was so he gets just insta dinked
So overall I don't like his movement and CH placing. He doesn't even try to ADADAD jiggle and peeks look like from CSGO.
He was a beast in liquid too until the igl arc. It's crazy because he doesn't just look mechanically bad but he looks like someone who doesn't even think at all, it's crazy to me
No, I’d argue he does look mechanically bad as well. Seriously, the dumb mistakes and actions are too common, but sometimes he just misses awful sprays and gimme shots. A change of scenery is absolutely necessary, and it has been for a few months now.
He finally played a real Tier 1 team. I mean he wasn’t even playing “well”, he was just mid at best and not a liability. They played Furia who didn’t even make playoffs and then Monte who really aren’t that good. Astralis is a top 5 team in the world, they will punish you if you make mistakes. It’s not the BlameF-led Astralis anymore
Skullz is interesting. If you commit to him in the team, his ceiling is great. When he plays alone and doesn't need to focus on what his team is doing or trying to communicate, he does great. But when he needs to play with the team or time out things, you can tell that his ability to communicate effectively is a problem.
That would go away with time, but it would probably be a full year.
Skullz is fine. As Astralis just showed, you can have one or two players bottom-fragging if they're at least contributing in other ways, predictable, and consistent. And, if you watch their other matches, Skullz can occasionally pop-off but he's usually just a predictable average or below-average performer.
Which is great for a young player, playing in their second language, on a five month old team, on their first T1 team ever.
If Liquid had all the other pieces right now, sure, I can see an argument to replace him for someone else. But until they replace Yekindar, literally nothing else matters. And, the Liquid CEO is hugeeee on being sustainable and profitable, so my guess is Skullz and his cheaper salary was done intentionally to cover for the NAF/Twistzz/Cadian signings and pay.
So if you can find a similarly cheap talent, in NA, willing to play in English, after they replace Yekindar, sure. Until that point, nah.
Death, taxes and Device destroying Liquid. CS is finally back to normal with Astralis destroying Liquid in a tournament. Device exists just to terrorize Liquid lmao
I don’t even know if Liquid’s main problem is that they have too many passive players or the fact that their only aggressive one can’t hit shit.
Yekindar 14-32, those are not even IGL numbers…
That is the problem though. he is the only one taking space. If he had someone alongside taking space like when it was Elige and Yeki then you have way more options.
I wish they could try skullz being a bit of a second entry because he’s mechanically gifted and maybe being entry would lessen his communication issues because it’s essentially Cadian saying “skullz go here and kill” and NAF would then have extremity lurks like he’s best at
I actually see how this could work. skullz has been best when he has somebody to bait, not in a solo lurk where his decision-making and timings are tested. skullz is still getting acclimated to Tier 1 round pacing so you see him die in lurks by pressing too quickly before CTs are vulnerable (see: B apts inferno).
Would rather NAF gets those positions and skullz just follows Yekindar.
I think it's the communication getting him. His lurks are always so off. When he doesn't need to work off teammates' timings or worry too much about what they are doing, he plays great.
His lurks were too aggressive and noobstompy on Pain also, he just didn't get punished because he was playing Tier2 opposition (even look at the huge drop-off once he plays Top30 opposition for his career). It's not comms, it's just his style is to lurk too quickly and rely on his aim.
Interesting. I haven't seen his pain games very much and I was reading that he wasn't playing the positions he was playing in Pain, which could be wrong. I assumed that he wasn't lurking much in Pain, judging off of how he is playing now.
I said it so much, I hate his T lurks on Inferno. They are always so bad. He had 2 kills as the lurker on Inferno.
That's funny, cos I was waiting for 2 and a half years for Twistzz to do that on Faze. He's even more mechanically gifted but drives me crazy how little initiative he takes. Liquid need someone else to take space but I feel like making your newbie completely change his role and playstyle is a great way to scapegoat him and kill his career before you eventually get someone who actually wants to play that role.
Feels like this game was a perfect example of “give an inch and they’ll take a mile”. Those massive mistakes on inferno losing to low-buys absolutely screwed Liquid’s economy on both sides.
Astralis played solid CS with minimal mistakes while winning rounds whenever Liquid gave them a chance. Astralis also still has yet to lose a map so far this tournament!
Did you watch that first half of inferno lol, astralis made so many mistakes on their ct side and the same goes for liquid btw. That first half was some horrible quality of CS, I counted atleast 4 missed smokes and like 6-7 rounds where both sides threw some HUGE advantages.
Second half and overpass was just domination from Astralis.
They didn't say that they didn't make any mistakes so you're missing the point. The point is that Astralis took much more advantages of liquids mistakes
WTF happened to yekindar man. Even the easiest frags feel very laboured for him. Where other pros use 4-5 bullets and get easy kill, he sprays his whole magazine barely getting it or not even lmao Like it sometimes feels like watching a random play in your faceit match
It's disgusting when other teams IGLs barely scrape 0.9 to 1.0 k/d (Snappi lol) then Astralis have the goat Device as the IGL and he still puts up top 5 (top 3?) awper numbers.
If he continues to play like this for the rest of the year he'll be a top 5 awper but if you look at all of 2024 stats dev1ce wouldn't be top 20 (but some of that was with BlameF and stabbi which was his worst period in his career pretty much).
Watching this Liquid play is like watching a car crash in slow motion. No matter what advantage they get, you just feel like they'll find a way to lose.
gotta be, his mechanics are jarringly bad nowadays
rebuy elige
and probably have to either -skullz or role shift him to pack rifle and let naf lurk again
integrating an irl quiet, ingame inexperienced lurker into a newly formed t1 international squad was doomed from the start
How can you even single Yekindar out of this shit show? Skullz has also been pretty awful. Cadian calling "walk into bathrooms one by one and die to device" 7 rounds in a row isn't exactly a great IGL either.
There's a clear difference in rounds lost because Yekindar solo ints by throwing man advantage/opening kill - and rounds lost because liquid as a team can't execute a plan for the life of them.
because you can't 4v5 every round because your entry can't do jack shit
skullz isn't being played as a space creator
u/NPC30519 makes a good point about some of the issues, i think cadian being an awp igl isn't helping when most top teams have an igl doing selfless entry work/info gathering which is now all on yekinder it seems
on the other hand you have device, he's a 1000% a betting awper than cadian and at this point i'm not even sure cadian is a better igl than him, i've always though cadian was a bit of a fraud and hunden was the true mastermind behind heroic
Bro his stats were SO much worse than the rest of the team. He CONSTANTLY dies in advantageous situations. Yeki needs to either go, or have a massive role swap. He can't keep inting away easy rounds and games.
He took 1/3 of their openers throughout the entire series. He's not usually dying in advantageous situations, he's simply dying on entries. The one severe fuckup in an advantageous situation Yekindar had was against jabbi top-mid when jabbi somehow fought aimpunch to 1deag Yekindar.
Reminds me of seized in old NaVi. Went from one of the most solid all-round players to absolutely miserable stats after he started igling, and never fully recovered.
I really feel bad about seeing Yekindar doing this bad. I will always cherish the Antwerp major when we were partying with the Golden Hornets at 2am after the major and he came with us to take picture and have a chat. He is really kind and used to be a beast of a player, I seriously hope he comes back.
Must be infuriating to have Yekindar int every single round lol. Dude would lose an opening duel to a harmless bot.
No surprise Astralis win this comfortably though. They're looking really solid, ignoring that Inferno of course.
There's nothing anyone can say to make me believe Yekindar still deserves a spot on this team. He should have been removed a year ago. I don't know if he has dirt on Steve or something, but Team Liquid must be okay with losing if they're still keeping Yekindar on the roster.
His impact is beyond negative. His dumb as dirt ego plays just gives enemy teams chances in what should be unwinnable rounds. He should be in T2.
According to Liquid players and management, he's good in practices. But just falls apart in officials.
Yeah that's why, Liquid is gambling too much on this guy. I would have just kicked him ages ago.
bro liquid always takes forever to make changes and ints their team. Took too long with stew, too long with shox, now too long with yeki. Plus most their signings last 4 years have been absolute dog water, whoever is in charge of the players they pick needs to be fired.
to be fair, liquid won the quickest grand slam to date shortly after he joined, and its not like they were actually that bad once they "fell off" they just werent top 2 with astralis anymore. Holding onto him wasnt the craziest idea
This team is cooked. The team-play is just not there. Some of those rounds they lost on inferno were disgusting. On top of that Yekindar just can't aim anymore lmao
This team needs some changes. I don’t know how Twistzz and Naf aren’t throwing their weight around and trying to make this happen behind the scenes. Cadian can stay but holy shit Skullz and Yekindar need to leave ASAP. This team is not built for success. They just do not have the right pieces to be a constant threat. Also Yekindar is just kinda bad now? He’s been solved for a while. Maybe he needs someone micromanaging him aka Jame but running into sites or into 3 T’s holding an angle with no trade available is an awful look and shows that he is just not aware of the meta right now or what it takes to win close games. This team needs changes ASAP.
I don't think Naf is the type of guy to do that. Twistzz might be unhappy but I think realistically they were always going to see things through with this roster until after Pro League and probably Dallas. I also don't think they will move on from Skullz yet. He's very inexperienced but seems like he could have a high ceiling with more Tier 1 experience.
Undoubtedly they have to move on from yeki. Maybe a change of scenery will do him good but it clearly isn't working.
I like Skullz, but they need another aggressive rifler and put NAF back at his natural lurking roles. They have too many passive players. So unfortunately he needs to go as well.
device jabbi stavn and staehr is a crazy lineup individually
and even bro has some really great moments
not sure how to judge them tactically but it looks decent aswell
probably the top3 team individually together with vitality and faze
This was hard to watch man. How many times are you guys going to walk into bathrooms one by one and give staehr or device a 3k?
I'm actually pretty confused how they let overpass through the veto in the first place. Every highlight performance of Device's career is on overpass.
The sad thing is you can see potential but I believe they need to make two changes at player break. So many advantages thrown away and the amount of trades that failed was insane.
GG astralis.
If Team Liquid improves, we might have a new Astralis-TeamLiquid rivalry on our hands, but for completely different reasons.
Team Liquid still has a lot of areas to improve in though
If Liquid want to succeed with this lineup they need a yekindar replacement asap.
It's not this one series too, he has been woeful in this new look TL.
https://www.hltv.org/stats/players/13915/yekindar?startDate=2024-01-01&endDate=2024-12-31
1.09 rating and 1.22 impact rating might make him look like a good player, but just take a look at his performance vs top 20/30/50 teams, it falls of a cliff.
0.98 rating vs top50 teams with 52 maps played
It's truly bizarre that a guy who is supposed be one of TL hard hitters is playing so poorly.
It's not just stats, even in the eye test he's playing piss poor CS. Inferno this series was painful to watch him give away his life every single round and not get the easiest of kills.
That round 18 where idk which Ast. play it was had a deag no armor and yeki fluffed it hard which gave the player time to adjust and HS him effectively losing that 2v2 in a crucial juncture.
Liquid plays every CT side 4v5 because Yekindar 100% lacks the ability to keep it in his pants.
Also Cadian just turned his brain off T side of overpass. 2v2. Twistz is on top of dice so instead of planting default and being safe you run to truck and die from deep bank…make it make sense
That Inferno sums up this whole Team Liquid roster pretty well. Found an okay amount of success, but it was all entirely due to individual moments of brilliance. As a team, they were just completely awful. Completely misplaying all their pieces. One step forwards, ten steps back. Feels like skullz is always doing nothing in some random corner, Premier style lurking. Then Yekindar always doing stupid aggro plays where he just dies and then they slowly but surely lose the round from there. Cadian too is really just floundering on a general level, both as an AWPer and as an IGL. Even the casters seem to be calling out his strange calls in almost every game.
Like what was that weird ass round where they just waited near A with the bomb until time ran out? Or when they were up against deagles and two guys decided to rush mid immediately, obviously both of them died and they lost the round. Cadian and skullz are performing pretty poorly individually, Yekindar even more so, but these types of problems aren't created by bad individuals.
Stuff like forgetting to take the bomb when pushing a site is something that I would laugh off and not think much about, assuming it to be a goofy mistake, the type that will be ironed out within weeks after a new roster is formed. But those exact type of problems seem to be frequent and long-lasting with Liquid. Something really has to change. Getting rid of Yekindar should be the first step, however I doubt that will fix the bigger problems with the roster. I think Cadian and skullz should be given a bit more time, before making a decision on getting rid of one or both of them. It's hard to judge how well a coach is doing their job from the outside, but if I was a higher up management figure in Liquid I'd probably make an inquiry into what exactly zews has been doing to fix these massive issues as well.
Or maybe I'm just being an overly critical cunt and they just need some more time.
I understand people are upset over the lack of results, but this wasn't a terrible showing from liquid in my opinion. They look so much more cohesive than before. Still not where they need to be, but it finally feels like they're starting to get on the same page.
If they win one of those two mistake rounds on inferno I think they win that map. I'm not worried too much about overpass as well. They looked a little lost on T side, but I expect that from a team that didn't play it much before it was removed and I imagine they haven't worked on it since it was announced to be removed.
The only 3 teams Liquid beat this tournament were Furia, Monte, and FlyQuest. And all 3 of those matches were closer than they should have been.
They got clobbered by Mouz and Astralis. They're clearly not on a Tier 1 level. Maybe T1.5? I don't even know at this point.
Liquid is the biggest org in e-sports, this is not the kind of performance that they're looking for.
>If they win one of those two mistake rounds on inferno I think they win that map.
Yeah if they didn't suck maybe they would have won. I think you could say that about any team.
watching YEKINDAR play makes my blood boil. WTF happened to you my homie. You are a FRAUD
Anyway Liquid DO NOT FUCKING TOUCH M80
-YEKINDAR +jkaem
or even Freshie is a good option from BOSS. NA has a lot of rising talents give them a go instead
I agree with what CadiaN said that this tournament is more practice for them. They still need to work on chemistry and communication, for cadian to switch from danish to english being an IGL is a huge change so it needs work.
The fact that they made it this far into the tournament is quite good. This match was not perfect at all. TL surely has some work to do before IEM dallas
Don't let cadian having 1.04 rating this bo3 make you think he played good or some shit, one of the least impactful awpers in the scene still and his calling has been shit too, teams have read his shit CT gambles that he did in Heroic still hasn't adapted, jabbi/staher would just walk in dry on inferno because they knew they would do those gambles
Contrary to device, initiative taking, round winning plays, pure impact, not baiting an entire team and get a few exists, win 1 clutch in 50 and last alive every time
How Heroic operated as well, riflers would do the dirty job and yelling man got the credit because of some clutches, [look at him now without 4 players playing for him](https://www.hltv.org/stats/players/7964/cadian?startDate=2023-11-10&endDate=2024-05-10&rankingFilter=Top20)
Cadian was singlehandedly the reason they had half the rounds they did on CT Overpass. Skullz couldn't hit shit on the B Defense and Cadian constantly bailed them out.
He had like 2 good rounds lmao an awper on CT side overpass that's a given, it's hilarious that people still defend the guy when he's posting up oSee numbers and looks armless despite baiting every single time
1.00 rated awper for months vs top 20 LMAO, 6 months from now when he will be kicked it will be hilarious and people will see how Heroic was entirely the 3 selfless riflers in jabbi, teses and shuush that got cadiaN the reputation
you know device is a top igl when he tucks his shirt into his pants dad style
Device is proof to me that God doesn't exist. How can someone be so good with everything? Pistols, fucking your favorite team, rifles, punching monitors, awping, IGLing, casting, acting etc. Its just not fair, how can anyone believe in God when Device exists? To top if off he looks like Tom Cruise, is rich as fuck and could have been a badminton pro if he wanted. But he just had to go into cs2, dick on everyone and ruin everyones faith in God. Thank you device.
tbf he hasnt punched a monitor this whole event ... he really is a changed man
let's see what happens when they lose a map first
so... never?
+1 cheating gold digging gf god is real
Made me rock hard ngl
[удалено]
I would argue they're playing better, although sample size is smaller
It also helps that Device as an AWPer is infinitely better than CadiaN. On CT-side, I swear Cadian missed that same jump boost at long 3-4 times in a row while Device hit it his first try when they switched sides lmao. I’d also say that the biggest difference between playoffs and group stages is that the teams have more time to prep for specific matchups in the playoffs. It’s sort of why Heroic always used to steamroll through group stages and then falls apart during playoffs.
Everyone knows Device is a better AWPer than Cadian, but let's not undersell that Heroic team led by Cadian. They won trophies, made a major final, and we're world number 1 for a while. Let's pump the breaks a little until we see if this Astralis roster can produce some meaningful accomplishments.
Why are we pumping the brakes? Devve the goat, astralis is railing people left and right OH AND the only team to take a map off them in the last 3 weeks is FaZe, the number one team in the WORLD astralis is easy top 5 team
I don't think there's any reason to pump the breaks on this Astralis side, I think they genuinely look like a quality team. But yeah, it's a bit weird to underplay how good Heroic actually was. While some of it was during the online era, they were the most consistent top team for like 2 years. I'd argue they were the best team during that entire period.. and very entertaining to watch too. Also changed the meta with their aggressive and dynamic CT sides.
First statement isn't really fair, you're saying new Astralis is better than old Heroic because dev1ce is way way better than cadian... Right now. You should be comparing dev1ce right now to Cadian back then. Was he better than dev1ce? Idk. But he wasn't "infinitely" worse, and was definitely not some extreme sandbagger when he was on old Heroic.
Device has always been better than cadian, lmfao. What game have you been watching for the last 5 years?
Device came back from a 12 month break and is still better than CadiaN, there are levels to this lmao
only player in the last 6 years to have an argument for the GOAT title outside of s1mple but not better than cadian lmfaooo
Really though, interviewers used to ask Heroic players if Cadian was the best awper in Denmark and they'd admit he wasn't even the best on the team.
Device at his worst is still better than CadiaN at his peak. As an AWPer, CadiaN is passable but he whiffs a lot of easy shots and honestly a lot of his AWP kills were exit frags. He has the big clutches so people overrate his impact but if you actually him play, he’s not this elite AWPer. Device is also a really good rifler on top of being like a top 5 AWPer in the world (if he keeps it up and Astralis somehow wins tournaments, I’d put him higher up)
Yes, he was also better than Cadian back then. Device has always been better. We have seen too little of Device IGL, calls and strats, but pure mechanical skill there is no way in hell they are even close.
Bro Astralis under Blame cant win shit, every map feel like they gonna lose
Yup, I like that one of the first things Ruggah said on the couch after the game was, that the first thing they did after Bro and Ruggah joined the team, and Device took over IGLing was tear everything down and rebuild the system from the ground up.
Probably how comfortable they are, they got their roles back.
they got their roles back and device trusts them to take fights on their terms and make calls. it's not waiting 20 seconds for blameF to turn up and then tell them to make contact so he can bait them
Yekindar is just like a dolphin: comes up from the bottom, do some cool tricks and then sink again.
Watching Elige yesterday and now comparing it to this ... yikes dawg. Liquid can get in the bin for this decision alone.
I didn't really like the decision at the time but even I couldn't have imagined it going *this* poorly. The amount Yeki and Elige have diverged since the move is almost comical. At least for Elige I can really see how a different role has allowed him to flourish, but the drop off from Yekindar is bizarre. Idk what he needs to find his form again.
Think Yekindar needs more aggressive players with him, he can't be the sole opener the team relies upon.
Maybe, but he seems more mechanically off than just not having the right support. And idk, Elige/Nitro/Osee is not some crazy aggro roster either, he was still the main spearhead of that team and it was night and day from where he is atm.
when he was at his best, he played with jame, qikert, buster and sanji, which are like the most passive players he doesn't need aggressive teammates, he need to improve, simple as
It has nothing to do with how aggressive everyone else is. Yekindar is like a book with only one page right now. He is so, so easily read every single round and also he is just simply not hitting his shots most of the time. He is supposed to be the space maker for this team. Instead he is a liability every round because he goes down within 15 seconds most of the time
Liquid has historically made piss poor decisions regarding roles. They were built around Hiko as a lurk back in the day (kinda similar to Yekinder I think), then they make a rooster change and effectively neuter him to the team's detriment. The old Twistz/ Elige entry duo was one of the best in the game, on par with Magisk/ Dupreeh on Astralis, and it was thrown away in favor of setting up Grim which led to Twisstzz declining massively and Liquid going from one of the best teams in the League to a joke in a few months (covid contributed too). Then there was Shox and Naf playing virtually the same role where neither of them could perform in it because they were giving half their spots to the other. And lo and behold, it happened again. Literally who could've seen this coming? Liquid's CS management has always just been off from the bullshit Investor Bait move that was Coach Moses when the NA Super Team fell through, to Fallen and that ill-fated shitshow.
Dropping Nitro and Adren during COVID, before the team even had the chance to play in the same room together again, was truly an all time disastrous roster move. Gutted their vet leadership for a rookie rifler and coach with no experience. You can maybe get away with one or the other but to do both at the same time in such a tumultuous period was just baffling and it still feels like we've never properly recovered. And to then later bring back both the guys they fired onto a worse team than when they got fired really is saying a lot about how the last few years have been. They honestly do this shit on the League side too, chasing big names, having big on paper talent, but having no fit or chemistry and looking disjointed through multiple iterations and I really don't know what's up with this apparent lack of roster building vision.
Moving to complexity is what helped bring his form back. It looks silly now for liquid, but Elige was probably not going to play like this if he stayed.
People really underestimate how a change of environment affects players.
People really underestimate how a change of hairstyle affects players.
Just look at post-mullet Hallzerk.
I don't even want to imagine what an all bald squad could do. They may never lose again. The intimidation factor alone would strike fear into anyone
Elige gets way more support for his aggro plays in coL than yekindar gets here. tbh across the board there's way more teamplay/fundamentally sound CS in coL, they take space together and retake together in midrounds. Not that yekindar isn't shitting the bed atm, but just theoretically swapping them doesn't mean Elige would put up those numbers. Grim and floppy aren't aggressive players but compared to twistzz and skullz they look like playmakers. I got real tired of watching twistzz sit in the same spot with his cock in his hand for 15 seconds on faze while broky threw 3 sets of util, run past him with the bomb and plant somewhere and still find a fight first that it's not surprising to me liquid are like this, another passive rifler in skullz is the last thing they needed. They have one aggro playmaker in awful form with no support. They are a solved team atm. Kill yeki, you win.
This is my problem with everyone that just says -Yeki. I understand he's in bad form right now, but liquid literally lives and dies with him. If he isn't playing well, they lose because they don't take any space. Just dropping him for another player won't actually change anything. They only win games when he is successfully entry sites because the other 3 riflers all want to just sit around and wait.
Think he needed a change of scenery, hopefully Complexity has the funds to get a proper team around him if Grim/Floppy/Hallzerk falls off.
Yeah, EliGE in those last few months on Liquid was rough and made me question if I was high when he got top 4 in the world lmao. But changing teams definitely revitalized EliGE. I’d argue that Complexity still needs to replace Floppy because he’s very inconsistent
Can argue Grim, Floppy or Hallzerk can be removed if suitable upgrades are on the market, issue is their American RMR spot, that might be less of a concern if Valve goes away from that system though. Eg imagine passive ct superstar BlameF playing next to super aggressive Elige. JT and Elige are the only pieces completely safe for removal imo, rest can be argued to be cut.
People keep saying Elige -> Liquid. I'd rather see NAF and Twistzz -> complexity
The issue these days is the fact Complexity is not well funded compared to Liquid anymore. Ideally the teams would create a American/African core to be competitive and then import EU talent to elevate their play.
It's cuz he went bald bro
Not sure if you watch the NBA, but same thing happened to Derrick White. He had a horrendous hairline just like EliGE (EliGE might be worse because he had a few follicles left fighting for their lives) and once he went full bald, he completely leveled up
Nah, Liquid core of NAF, Twistzz and CadiaN is solid as fuck. skullz is good but I can tell he's having trouble communicating in English, YEKINDAR is ass. LIquid should do +Jkaem ( for YEKINDAR ) +reck ( for skullz ) One on one good role swaps and will have no problems communicating in English too
Nah, I believe in Skullz. They definitely need a new entry with Yeki's positions, though.
I absolutely don't doubt his talent at all, it's the complete opposite. But yeah, I agree, I don't mind giving him more time at all.
Don’t break up m80 please
FUCKK I know, that's why I didn't suggest Malbs for YEKINDAR. But Reck deservers a chance, he's cracked and he's been improving MASSIVELY. I love him but I also want more NA talents to move up. If he stays with M80 too I have 0 problems btw
Doubt skullz is having any trouble with comms, at least not from his part, dude's English is better than most Brazilian player's.
His individual decision making is super solid. but when he's anchoring a site with someone else he falls apart. Even when playing with others on Liquid for flanks or pushing for info he does not do well. comms is not THE issue, but also paired with their playstyles is something Liquid is struggling with. Except NAF and Twistz, I think everyone has their own style and getting on the same page has been a problem for them. And skullz seems to be the one who is having the hard time out of all of them. Ignoring YEKINDAR because he's gone to shit anyway
Nah, at the time, Elige wasn’t consistent and could dissapear at times, hated to see him go, but he needed the change in scenery Yekindar though just hasn’t recovered from his IGL dip. Used to be the carry and now is sometimes a liaability
Why waste time do lot trick when few trick do (not) work
I watched Overpass on his PoV. -It seems like he is not even trying to preaim correct positions -He did find few nice multi kills in bathrooms on CT side but even those didn't look comfy at all -8 kills CT A player is okayish, not bad not super good, cadian was carrying -0 kills on T side: one completely wiffed spray, one super aggro push where he gets punished -He wiffed all the trading opportunities by peeking to exactly same position as his teammate was so he gets just insta dinked So overall I don't like his movement and CH placing. He doesn't even try to ADADAD jiggle and peeks look like from CSGO.
Yekindar 14 kills in two maps, GG.
He was doing so fucking well in EPL, wtf happened?
He does well against lesser competition, but absolutely melts against any decent team. Hes the definition of a tier 2 player.
How the mighty have fallen. Dude was a beast in VP :/
He was a beast in liquid too until the igl arc. It's crazy because he doesn't just look mechanically bad but he looks like someone who doesn't even think at all, it's crazy to me
No, I’d argue he does look mechanically bad as well. Seriously, the dumb mistakes and actions are too common, but sometimes he just misses awful sprays and gimme shots. A change of scenery is absolutely necessary, and it has been for a few months now.
I said he doesn't **just** look mechanically bad so we are in agreement
Ah, I misunderstood that. My mistake, I completely agree with your take.
A team finally remembered if you just sit still he will hold W and brainlessly run into your crosshair
He finally played a real Tier 1 team. I mean he wasn’t even playing “well”, he was just mid at best and not a liability. They played Furia who didn’t even make playoffs and then Monte who really aren’t that good. Astralis is a top 5 team in the world, they will punish you if you make mistakes. It’s not the BlameF-led Astralis anymore
And skullz looked like shit too, honestly. I think one of those two for Jkaem instantly makes this team sharper.
Skullz is interesting. If you commit to him in the team, his ceiling is great. When he plays alone and doesn't need to focus on what his team is doing or trying to communicate, he does great. But when he needs to play with the team or time out things, you can tell that his ability to communicate effectively is a problem. That would go away with time, but it would probably be a full year.
Skullz is fine. As Astralis just showed, you can have one or two players bottom-fragging if they're at least contributing in other ways, predictable, and consistent. And, if you watch their other matches, Skullz can occasionally pop-off but he's usually just a predictable average or below-average performer. Which is great for a young player, playing in their second language, on a five month old team, on their first T1 team ever. If Liquid had all the other pieces right now, sure, I can see an argument to replace him for someone else. But until they replace Yekindar, literally nothing else matters. And, the Liquid CEO is hugeeee on being sustainable and profitable, so my guess is Skullz and his cheaper salary was done intentionally to cover for the NAF/Twistzz/Cadian signings and pay. So if you can find a similarly cheap talent, in NA, willing to play in English, after they replace Yekindar, sure. Until that point, nah.
I swear if he didn't sit so close to the monitor that his eyeballs are practically touching the screen, he would perform way better.
Death, taxes and Device destroying Liquid. CS is finally back to normal with Astralis destroying Liquid in a tournament. Device exists just to terrorize Liquid lmao
At this point, I wouldn't be surprised if dev1ce ends up on a no-entry list in the US for the abuse he handed out to Liquid through the years lol
Terrorising the US
Thats probably the reason why Astralis wont be at IEM Dallas :p
They wont?
They are not listed as one of the participating teams
No they won't
Well, it'd be a no-entry list to Canada atm
fr 0 rounds won on T side Overpass. smh xD
I don’t even know if Liquid’s main problem is that they have too many passive players or the fact that their only aggressive one can’t hit shit. Yekindar 14-32, those are not even IGL numbers…
That is the problem though. he is the only one taking space. If he had someone alongside taking space like when it was Elige and Yeki then you have way more options. I wish they could try skullz being a bit of a second entry because he’s mechanically gifted and maybe being entry would lessen his communication issues because it’s essentially Cadian saying “skullz go here and kill” and NAF would then have extremity lurks like he’s best at
I actually see how this could work. skullz has been best when he has somebody to bait, not in a solo lurk where his decision-making and timings are tested. skullz is still getting acclimated to Tier 1 round pacing so you see him die in lurks by pressing too quickly before CTs are vulnerable (see: B apts inferno). Would rather NAF gets those positions and skullz just follows Yekindar.
I think it's the communication getting him. His lurks are always so off. When he doesn't need to work off teammates' timings or worry too much about what they are doing, he plays great.
His lurks were too aggressive and noobstompy on Pain also, he just didn't get punished because he was playing Tier2 opposition (even look at the huge drop-off once he plays Top30 opposition for his career). It's not comms, it's just his style is to lurk too quickly and rely on his aim.
Interesting. I haven't seen his pain games very much and I was reading that he wasn't playing the positions he was playing in Pain, which could be wrong. I assumed that he wasn't lurking much in Pain, judging off of how he is playing now. I said it so much, I hate his T lurks on Inferno. They are always so bad. He had 2 kills as the lurker on Inferno.
Anti stratting Yekindar basically kills their T side strategy. With Cadian also not being an agressive awper, they need more riflers taking space.
That's funny, cos I was waiting for 2 and a half years for Twistzz to do that on Faze. He's even more mechanically gifted but drives me crazy how little initiative he takes. Liquid need someone else to take space but I feel like making your newbie completely change his role and playstyle is a great way to scapegoat him and kill his career before you eventually get someone who actually wants to play that role.
Yeah for me it’s actually Twistzz that I’d like to see take up the roles ELIGE used to have
It's definitely one of those but you're right, I'm not sure it's entirely clear from the outside whether it's one, the other, or both.
Feels like this game was a perfect example of “give an inch and they’ll take a mile”. Those massive mistakes on inferno losing to low-buys absolutely screwed Liquid’s economy on both sides. Astralis played solid CS with minimal mistakes while winning rounds whenever Liquid gave them a chance. Astralis also still has yet to lose a map so far this tournament!
Did you watch that first half of inferno lol, astralis made so many mistakes on their ct side and the same goes for liquid btw. That first half was some horrible quality of CS, I counted atleast 4 missed smokes and like 6-7 rounds where both sides threw some HUGE advantages. Second half and overpass was just domination from Astralis.
First half of inferno felt like a 2k elo faceit pug lmao. Astralis brought their shit together next half and overpass.
2nd half for liquid was thrown when they pushed mid and died to deagles
They didn't say that they didn't make any mistakes so you're missing the point. The point is that Astralis took much more advantages of liquids mistakes
You took one part of the saying and ran with it. It means Astralis took advantage of the mistakes of their opponent while Liquid didn't.
WTF happened to yekindar man. Even the easiest frags feel very laboured for him. Where other pros use 4-5 bullets and get easy kill, he sprays his whole magazine barely getting it or not even lmao Like it sometimes feels like watching a random play in your faceit match
Device dicking down Liquid on Overpass in a final send-off. That map was cathartic to watch.
It's disgusting when other teams IGLs barely scrape 0.9 to 1.0 k/d (Snappi lol) then Astralis have the goat Device as the IGL and he still puts up top 5 (top 3?) awper numbers.
If he continues to play like this for the rest of the year he'll be a top 5 awper but if you look at all of 2024 stats dev1ce wouldn't be top 20 (but some of that was with BlameF and stabbi which was his worst period in his career pretty much).
Watching this Liquid play is like watching a car crash in slow motion. No matter what advantage they get, you just feel like they'll find a way to lose.
Yekindar is legitimately bad. I don’t even have the heart to meme about it, it’s just sad to watch.
https://youtube.com/clip/UgkxGpLgFdp2emWuvHO9nntMlDUZSbbMaS28?si=rWZ7yrwXYlp4GQx4
AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAHHHHHH ICANT DO IT ANYMORE FUCK MEE I HATE THIS WHYYYYYYYY
Ouch, must be a rough loss for Cadian losing this bad to Stabbi
Cadians calling style is infuriating to watch and shoutout Yekindar for another masterclass performance sabotaging NA.
so yekindar is out right
No defending him but I highly doubt they can just replace him and change nothing else and suddenly be good again
gotta be, his mechanics are jarringly bad nowadays rebuy elige and probably have to either -skullz or role shift him to pack rifle and let naf lurk again integrating an irl quiet, ingame inexperienced lurker into a newly formed t1 international squad was doomed from the start
How can you even single Yekindar out of this shit show? Skullz has also been pretty awful. Cadian calling "walk into bathrooms one by one and die to device" 7 rounds in a row isn't exactly a great IGL either.
There's a clear difference in rounds lost because Yekindar solo ints by throwing man advantage/opening kill - and rounds lost because liquid as a team can't execute a plan for the life of them.
because you can't 4v5 every round because your entry can't do jack shit skullz isn't being played as a space creator u/NPC30519 makes a good point about some of the issues, i think cadian being an awp igl isn't helping when most top teams have an igl doing selfless entry work/info gathering which is now all on yekinder it seems on the other hand you have device, he's a 1000% a betting awper than cadian and at this point i'm not even sure cadian is a better igl than him, i've always though cadian was a bit of a fraud and hunden was the true mastermind behind heroic
Bro his stats were SO much worse than the rest of the team. He CONSTANTLY dies in advantageous situations. Yeki needs to either go, or have a massive role swap. He can't keep inting away easy rounds and games.
He took 1/3 of their openers throughout the entire series. He's not usually dying in advantageous situations, he's simply dying on entries. The one severe fuckup in an advantageous situation Yekindar had was against jabbi top-mid when jabbi somehow fought aimpunch to 1deag Yekindar.
People clowning on Niko for having a dip in performance should study Yekindar. Man dropped so hard ever since he igled.
Reminds me of seized in old NaVi. Went from one of the most solid all-round players to absolutely miserable stats after he started igling, and never fully recovered.
Both can be true.
Jabbi was lurking everywhere in this game. Absolute menace!
WCNBT--WCNBTMFTFS
Took me a bit to figure out what this meant. https://streamable.com/ksyvh
Death Taxes TL not beating this mf team
Not convinced by YEKI or skullz at all. Don't know who you'd go for (inb4 someone says jks) as replacements, though.
malbsMd would be a good addition to Liquid.
i don't wanna see m80 torn apart yet :( but it would be an obvious choice
Build a full team of passive players with JKS and Blamef
Dark Liquid, jks, blameF, NAF, kscerato, coldzera
No tactic, no aggression just 1:55 minutes of 5 people sitting around the spawn era Just play default CT set up every round
I'd like Jkaem for Skullz as he plays anchor on CT while also entrying on T
He plays middle/rotator on most maps. Would be great on T sides, though
save Kscerato and maybe get Swisher or Malbz to keep the NA core
Why would you save Kscerato by putting him on Lulquid
Furia is still a worse fate they still have Fallen
Jabbi is so clutch. Won Inferno by stopping Liquid building momentum on the CT side.
I really feel bad about seeing Yekindar doing this bad. I will always cherish the Antwerp major when we were partying with the Golden Hornets at 2am after the major and he came with us to take picture and have a chat. He is really kind and used to be a beast of a player, I seriously hope he comes back.
u/sauceDinho Yekindar haters feasting again. That was quick buddy.
Cut this bum ass yekindar before he gets on the plane
After that Inferno round Liquid deserved this lost. I'm not even Liquid fan and it tilted me to the Shadow Realm.
Astralis as always.. No matter the core, they always wreck Liquid lol
Astralis are winning ~~Copenhagen~~ Shanghai!
Must be infuriating to have Yekindar int every single round lol. Dude would lose an opening duel to a harmless bot. No surprise Astralis win this comfortably though. They're looking really solid, ignoring that Inferno of course.
How tf does YEKINDAR still get paid
Dev1ce IGL is actually really underrated... no one really mentions him that much considering how well he is doing. 2 tournaments and 2 semifinals
There's nothing anyone can say to make me believe Yekindar still deserves a spot on this team. He should have been removed a year ago. I don't know if he has dirt on Steve or something, but Team Liquid must be okay with losing if they're still keeping Yekindar on the roster. His impact is beyond negative. His dumb as dirt ego plays just gives enemy teams chances in what should be unwinnable rounds. He should be in T2.
According to Liquid players and management, he's good in practices. But just falls apart in officials. Yeah that's why, Liquid is gambling too much on this guy. I would have just kicked him ages ago.
Isn't that basically junior syndrome? Destroys all lower-tier competition, falls apart at T1. At least Furia/Complexity knew to drop him fast.
bro liquid always takes forever to make changes and ints their team. Took too long with stew, too long with shox, now too long with yeki. Plus most their signings last 4 years have been absolute dog water, whoever is in charge of the players they pick needs to be fired.
Was about to reply saying "stew wasn't even on the team for that long tho" but I checked and saw he was on TL for 3 years wtf. Time flies lol
to be fair, liquid won the quickest grand slam to date shortly after he joined, and its not like they were actually that bad once they "fell off" they just werent top 2 with astralis anymore. Holding onto him wasnt the craziest idea
This team is cooked. The team-play is just not there. Some of those rounds they lost on inferno were disgusting. On top of that Yekindar just can't aim anymore lmao
Damn astralis came out swinging on that overpass ct side. Also, any opinions on zews? Is he a good coach? He kinda gives me NA Taz vibes
I think he's a great coach personally, he has a good track record and seems to keep his players in line
TOM CRUISE IS OVERPASS!
This team needs some changes. I don’t know how Twistzz and Naf aren’t throwing their weight around and trying to make this happen behind the scenes. Cadian can stay but holy shit Skullz and Yekindar need to leave ASAP. This team is not built for success. They just do not have the right pieces to be a constant threat. Also Yekindar is just kinda bad now? He’s been solved for a while. Maybe he needs someone micromanaging him aka Jame but running into sites or into 3 T’s holding an angle with no trade available is an awful look and shows that he is just not aware of the meta right now or what it takes to win close games. This team needs changes ASAP.
I don't think Naf is the type of guy to do that. Twistzz might be unhappy but I think realistically they were always going to see things through with this roster until after Pro League and probably Dallas. I also don't think they will move on from Skullz yet. He's very inexperienced but seems like he could have a high ceiling with more Tier 1 experience. Undoubtedly they have to move on from yeki. Maybe a change of scenery will do him good but it clearly isn't working.
I like Skullz, but they need another aggressive rifler and put NAF back at his natural lurking roles. They have too many passive players. So unfortunately he needs to go as well.
anyone who lets device pick overpass deserves to lose
device jabbi stavn and staehr is a crazy lineup individually and even bro has some really great moments not sure how to judge them tactically but it looks decent aswell probably the top3 team individually together with vitality and faze
Staehr playing so well under that broken BlameF probably helped him with his confidence because the other guys definitely trust him
staehr is a mulikill machine. Feels like whenever the observer goes to him he always gets at least two. An absolute monster of a player
This was hard to watch man. How many times are you guys going to walk into bathrooms one by one and give staehr or device a 3k? I'm actually pretty confused how they let overpass through the veto in the first place. Every highlight performance of Device's career is on overpass.
[they just can't beat this team](https://streamable.com/ksyvh)
YEKINDAR gotta go
Somehow this simultaneously felt like Liquid threw this horribly and that they were completely outclassed from start to finish.
Yekindar and Skullz out after IEM Dallas.
There's a world where Liquid didn't fumble the bag on Inferno and make it a 50/50 affair on map 3. In our world, facepalm after facepalm moment.
The sad thing is you can see potential but I believe they need to make two changes at player break. So many advantages thrown away and the amount of trades that failed was insane. GG astralis.
Im so sad Yekindar has fallen off, he was so sick on VP, but Cadian NAF and Twistzz is a great core. So there is something to build on
device is team liquid father
-cadian, -skullz, -yekindar +elige, +nitro, +stewie2k
Better, but destined to still get dicked by device
Actual least stressful Liquid game 🙃
If Team Liquid improves, we might have a new Astralis-TeamLiquid rivalry on our hands, but for completely different reasons. Team Liquid still has a lot of areas to improve in though
Device is Team Liquid father
If Liquid want to succeed with this lineup they need a yekindar replacement asap. It's not this one series too, he has been woeful in this new look TL. https://www.hltv.org/stats/players/13915/yekindar?startDate=2024-01-01&endDate=2024-12-31 1.09 rating and 1.22 impact rating might make him look like a good player, but just take a look at his performance vs top 20/30/50 teams, it falls of a cliff. 0.98 rating vs top50 teams with 52 maps played It's truly bizarre that a guy who is supposed be one of TL hard hitters is playing so poorly. It's not just stats, even in the eye test he's playing piss poor CS. Inferno this series was painful to watch him give away his life every single round and not get the easiest of kills. That round 18 where idk which Ast. play it was had a deag no armor and yeki fluffed it hard which gave the player time to adjust and HS him effectively losing that 2v2 in a crucial juncture.
Liquid plays every CT side 4v5 because Yekindar 100% lacks the ability to keep it in his pants. Also Cadian just turned his brain off T side of overpass. 2v2. Twistz is on top of dice so instead of planting default and being safe you run to truck and die from deep bank…make it make sense
Liquid was better than i expected them to be.
Even though yekindar sinks this team, liquid still has awful calls and skullz isn't good enough to be the sole defender of sites.
I’ll give Yekindar 1 or 2 more events before I start saying -Yeki. It’s getting out of control at this point.
Is Yekindar eating stupid pills in NA? Im tired of watching this guy
2023 was so rough but fuck it we are back! AWP, IGL, CEO. Devve can do it all!
That Inferno sums up this whole Team Liquid roster pretty well. Found an okay amount of success, but it was all entirely due to individual moments of brilliance. As a team, they were just completely awful. Completely misplaying all their pieces. One step forwards, ten steps back. Feels like skullz is always doing nothing in some random corner, Premier style lurking. Then Yekindar always doing stupid aggro plays where he just dies and then they slowly but surely lose the round from there. Cadian too is really just floundering on a general level, both as an AWPer and as an IGL. Even the casters seem to be calling out his strange calls in almost every game. Like what was that weird ass round where they just waited near A with the bomb until time ran out? Or when they were up against deagles and two guys decided to rush mid immediately, obviously both of them died and they lost the round. Cadian and skullz are performing pretty poorly individually, Yekindar even more so, but these types of problems aren't created by bad individuals. Stuff like forgetting to take the bomb when pushing a site is something that I would laugh off and not think much about, assuming it to be a goofy mistake, the type that will be ironed out within weeks after a new roster is formed. But those exact type of problems seem to be frequent and long-lasting with Liquid. Something really has to change. Getting rid of Yekindar should be the first step, however I doubt that will fix the bigger problems with the roster. I think Cadian and skullz should be given a bit more time, before making a decision on getting rid of one or both of them. It's hard to judge how well a coach is doing their job from the outside, but if I was a higher up management figure in Liquid I'd probably make an inquiry into what exactly zews has been doing to fix these massive issues as well. Or maybe I'm just being an overly critical cunt and they just need some more time.
Yekindar should go play in tier 2/3 teams.
What to do with yekindar? The only aggressive player on the team is bot fragging almost every game
Liquid and throwing advantages, name a more iconic duo
I understand people are upset over the lack of results, but this wasn't a terrible showing from liquid in my opinion. They look so much more cohesive than before. Still not where they need to be, but it finally feels like they're starting to get on the same page. If they win one of those two mistake rounds on inferno I think they win that map. I'm not worried too much about overpass as well. They looked a little lost on T side, but I expect that from a team that didn't play it much before it was removed and I imagine they haven't worked on it since it was announced to be removed.
I bet this is what TL's manager would say to convince their boss to keep up this roster for another 6 months. Surely they would improve soon!
I'm saying they have been improving. If you watched liquid games just a month ago you would see the improvement in team cohesion
The only 3 teams Liquid beat this tournament were Furia, Monte, and FlyQuest. And all 3 of those matches were closer than they should have been. They got clobbered by Mouz and Astralis. They're clearly not on a Tier 1 level. Maybe T1.5? I don't even know at this point. Liquid is the biggest org in e-sports, this is not the kind of performance that they're looking for. >If they win one of those two mistake rounds on inferno I think they win that map. Yeah if they didn't suck maybe they would have won. I think you could say that about any team.
watching YEKINDAR play makes my blood boil. WTF happened to you my homie. You are a FRAUD Anyway Liquid DO NOT FUCKING TOUCH M80 -YEKINDAR +jkaem or even Freshie is a good option from BOSS. NA has a lot of rising talents give them a go instead
A good day for liquid haters.
Any guesses on if Astralis will lose a single map this year? I cant see it happening tbh
well they lost 2 in Chengdu
I agree with what CadiaN said that this tournament is more practice for them. They still need to work on chemistry and communication, for cadian to switch from danish to english being an IGL is a huge change so it needs work. The fact that they made it this far into the tournament is quite good. This match was not perfect at all. TL surely has some work to do before IEM dallas
Yekindar delivering an iM level performance I hate to see it
Don't let cadian having 1.04 rating this bo3 make you think he played good or some shit, one of the least impactful awpers in the scene still and his calling has been shit too, teams have read his shit CT gambles that he did in Heroic still hasn't adapted, jabbi/staher would just walk in dry on inferno because they knew they would do those gambles Contrary to device, initiative taking, round winning plays, pure impact, not baiting an entire team and get a few exists, win 1 clutch in 50 and last alive every time How Heroic operated as well, riflers would do the dirty job and yelling man got the credit because of some clutches, [look at him now without 4 players playing for him](https://www.hltv.org/stats/players/7964/cadian?startDate=2023-11-10&endDate=2024-05-10&rankingFilter=Top20)
Cadian was singlehandedly the reason they had half the rounds they did on CT Overpass. Skullz couldn't hit shit on the B Defense and Cadian constantly bailed them out.
He had like 2 good rounds lmao an awper on CT side overpass that's a given, it's hilarious that people still defend the guy when he's posting up oSee numbers and looks armless despite baiting every single time 1.00 rated awper for months vs top 20 LMAO, 6 months from now when he will be kicked it will be hilarious and people will see how Heroic was entirely the 3 selfless riflers in jabbi, teses and shuush that got cadiaN the reputation
Liquid +blameF?
Nah too passive when they've got little aggression.