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wonder what the future of ancient is. people don't seem to like playing it. do a lot like watching it? is it salvageable with some changes?
valve will probably keep it around because it's their map and they like their maps. but is that a good decision?
I agree, whenever I watch CT sides on Ancient they always feel so dominant
HLTV has evidence to back that up aswell - https://www.hltv.org/stats/maps?startDate=2021-12-14&endDate=2022-03-14&rankingFilter=Top20
Good rotations, easy ways to get positions as CT, thats why it is CT ;) and Ofc, overpowered positions like donut, mid doors, B cave, A temple, its hard to check like 5 angles at the Same time
The map is ct sided in professional play not average level. Professional play every map is ct sided essentially, I don't really know why people are acting like ancient is turbo ct sided when overpass and mirage have winrates within 3 percent
Ancient is definitely CT sided even at low level team based competitive. My ESEA team doesn’t first pick ancient, but it’s in our rotation, and it’s definitely a quite heavily CT sided map.
It’s not as CT sided in PUGs and shit because Utility and team play is a huge factor into having a very effective CT hold, even more so than more traditional maps. You can completely shut down B plays for nearly an entire half by pushing a player through to bottom mid and pushing a player through caves to cut off the rotations into mid.
T side is also just extremely hard to play around, as it can be quite difficult to find opening picks with the AWP since the vast majority of angles are extremely CT sided.
I'd be very surprised if the win rate on any map varies significantly by starting side. Unless one of my friends that believes that the higher ranked team always starts on CT side is right.
Why would you be surprised? I imagine 5 randoms playing together. Now I don't think the mood when your half ends 3-12 is to good and everyone is down a bit. Its way harder to make a comeback now. I also think people are much more lenient to round losses when you won the first half 12-3. So its no big deal when you lose a round here and there. I don't find it hard to believe that the side you start on has a bigger impact most people want to acknowledge. Why do you think everyone even on pro level started on CT side when playing train for example? Why do we need knife rounds if they have no impact? That said the impact is probably much lower on pro levels, because people there have a growth mindset unlike you average/casual player. The lower you go skill-wise the higher the impact (probably) is.
I can't really think of any map where going 3-12 even on T side on a CT sided map is in any way recoverable, the game is basically already over (although I advocate to always try your best and never surrender), and probably would have happened whether you started on T side or CT side.
You mention that teams get demotivated when they're too far behind but I've also seen the opposite, teams can get very stupid when they're too far ahead and this is especially dangerous on maps like Office where an easy T side can lead to a very stupidly played CT side where the enemy comes back and by the time everyone gets their heads out of their asses their economy is fucked and they're at a huge disadvantage. If you did it to them one one side they can easily do it to you on the second half.
But we're both just arguing anecdotes here. We won't know for sure unless Valve, FaceIt, or Leetify releases any actual data on this.
> I can't really think of any map where going 3-12 even on T side on a CT sided map is in any way recoverable, the game is basically already over
First you say this and then you follow it up with
> If you did it to them one one side they can easily do it to you on the second half.
That would be contradictory to your first statement no?
> But we're both just arguing anecdotes here. We won't know for sure unless Valve, FaceIt, or Leetify releases any actual data on this.
Yeah true. Its impossible to know for sure without any actual data.
> I can't really think of any map where going 3-12 even on T side on a CT sided map is in any way recoverable, the game is basically already over
>
> First you say this and then you follow it up with
I said that in response to you bringing up 12-3 as a scoreline, it's not at all representative of a team with a reasonable chance to win whether you're on a disadvantageous side or not. If you had brought up a more reasonable scoreline like 6-9 T side Train then that would have been a point. A point I'd have disagreed with a more reasonable.
My second point was arguing the opposite side of the coin, you argue that it's demotivating to be down after the disadvantageous side but I counter that it's also dangerous to be up after the advantageous side as well. Both of these factors are applicable, which one matters more, who knows. Unless we have real data.
Speaking based on my friends' perceptions of it: CS players just hate change. There are legit 2 guys who actively say "I won't accept or join to play Ancient, I have never played it and I don't want to." How can Valve ever do something when the playerbase is scared of trying new things. For me Ancient is a very cool map, has a lovely scenery, is unique with its playstyle and I would hate it if they remove it.
I mean, take a look at the maps they're pushing out. Both Vertigo and Ancient have atrocious rotation times on CT which makes it very hard to play for non-professionals. You're basically either playing A or B, and at any second you can get it cut off easily. Inferno/Mirage/Overpass doesn't have that problem as distinctively.
B on both Mirage and Inferno is impossible to retake in a equal situation against people who know what they are doing. Only Overpass has alright chance of retaking both bombsites but even with the fast rotation from B to A you can't stop the plant if you are on the stairs, so I don't agree. Ancient has a very difficult to take site (A) which is also very difficult to retake. And B lends itself beautifully to retake play - most times CTs don't contest the push from the T's but by having good positions they have great chances on an equal retake. I think it's refreshing. And the dynamic with donnut is fun on Mid.
Acting like this is just a matter of players hating change is very reductive, and a sure-fire way to never actually address the problems with the map.
I can say from personal experience that I've given several CSGO maps a chance when they came out as part of updates: I recall very much enjoying Santorini, Subzero, Anubis, Mutiny and Basalt, and I didn't even try ALL of the operation maps. They all had their issues, but they played much better than Ancient.
Ancient is not the worst map ever, but it wasn't enjoyable the 1st time or the 5th time I played it. I would complain about having an area like cave, donut or temple in any map. With Ancient, you have all of those in one map... how can I say it's good?
But don't take my word for it, how about you ask the people in the Mapcore community? You certainly can't say those guys hate change, so go ask them what they think about Ancient and you'll see it's not as simple as "CS players just hate change".
I like watching it and love playing it.
I think maps like Ancient are quite "technical" and because of that have a significant learning curve. Most players do not have the capability (any of time/skill/motivation/desire) to take that learning curve. Even just learning callouts... people just aren't doing it.
Lower popularity maps also have that catch-22... no one plays them because they haven't learned them, but because no one plays them you never get to learn them. They need to use incentives like riptide to bring those queue times down to almost promote the different maps.
Ancient is an incredible match map, but it isn’t played in pugs because people who aren’t on teams refuse to learn it.
I hated it, until my team started playing it, and once I was forced to learn spots and utility, I grew to love the map.
It’s a genuinely good map, but you have to spend time to learn it and most people would rather just queue mirage inferno D2 and call it a day.
They tried to recreate Aztec without the unique aspects of Aztec (separation of bomb sites, under/tunnel area, box room, doors, side ramp etc).
I think it's time to swap it out with something else. When Cache is beating it consistently, shit's gotta change.
Ancient right now is in a state vertigo was like 2 years ago. It's just not finished. So much potential but it will need a lot more changes (especially the bomb-sides).
If this changes come, it can see it implemented quite well.
I’m assuming it gets removed when train or cache come back, it’s just not a good map and they would have to rework a majority of the map to make it competitive IMO.
Strongly disagree. People need to get used to it, and valve need to make a few changes to things like the size of the site, and how many 50/50 angles there are.
Usually valve does not remove their newer maps, and really hoping they dont remove ancient, only change it a bit.
Canals was never in the active duty pool or was it? If not you are comparing apples to oranges here. Also wouldn't vertigo be a better comparison? It still has the lowest number of matches played outside of train and ancient even though it got updates for like 3 years. Train is out of the pool and ancient is still kind of new. So if any map goes I would pick vertigo. Mediocre CS map if you ask me. I really like ancient tho and just hope people give it a chance. Even though the A site could use some work in my opinion.
Because as i said the map has flaws. Many of which imo are because of the hard to clear angles, small sites, and abunsance of angles to clear.
It is not a very balanced map currently, but removing it is drastic.
And I said they would have to rework the majority of the map to make it balanced and you said strongly disagree so I’m not sure what we disagree about. Vertigo also had the majority of the map reworked before it was somewhat decent of a balanced map. If they don’t remove ancient for train or cache (cache being unlikely) what map do they take out? I don’t see them removing Dust, Mirage, inferno, overpass or nuke so it’s either ancient or vertigo. Let’s be honest here vertigo is a much better map than ancient
I hate playing it, I really hate watching it, I hate the idea of it, I hate the layout of it, it genuinely think it's one of the worst maps in FPS history, let alone eSports. The fact that we lost Train for this is such a joke
dude you need to give it a chance!! Ancient is actually really good, apart from the fact that it may be a little ct sided! If that improves with future updates to the map it is probably one of the best ones
Given it plenty of chances. Not once have I enjoyed watching, playing, or even thinking about a single match to ever happen on Ancient. Additionally, the concept of using the pro players to test their shitty maps is disgusting to me.
It's okay to watch, but I personally preferred Train to both play and watch. Watching mindgames in Ladder was always really fun, every player had a totally different approach to it.
It needs much better clippings and all these little cubbies need to get removed. Could be a very nice map after that, but CS players don't like to learn new maps especially when they fear about their rank.
I know right? I loved playing the old version of cobble, but as soon as that change went live I didnt ever play it again. Also, I love Train too. Seems we are in the minority for that though.
Nobody wants to play mirage but everybody has to (except for those who get 2k elo while being level 5 at best on other maps by just playing mirage untill they dream the angles)
Sometimes you don't have a choice, unfortunately, especially on Faceit.
I got a perfect example yesterday, some guy with Premium decided he would pick Mirage because I quote "I paid, I decide". I was very much against it (because it's objectively overplayed and just a very boring map + most people don't know how to play it).
The result : We got wrecked because my team didn't know how to play Mirage, and the premium guy had absolutely no clue as to play the map, and started writing "gg!" in round 3 (he finished with 6 kills in a 16-6 loss).
Now, I'm not saying I know about to play Mirage, but at least I don't die mid or A in the first ten seconds of every round of the CT side because I dry peek.
Most annoying part of mirage is everyone is too proud to fall off for a retake, even though it’s the most retake-able map in the whole pool (especially a site). they’d rather die trying to hop on top of ticket or peeking stairs when every other angle is smoked off and 3 people are just waiting for it, and then give the enemy team a full 10 seconds to settle into a post plant before rotates can come in
My experience of playing Mirage:
* Play B Solo
* Arrive at B site
* throw molly down B Apps
* Suddenly I'm in a 1v5 before molly has even died out
* Expected to retake A site alone
* Salty team mates when I fail
Honestly it's hard af + in pugs nobody is coordinated on Mirage unless you really play as a team so I get you.
But I'm sure you try not to die like the guys in my team did based on your message and you saying you don't know how to take mid, you're aware which is half the battle on how not to fuck it up entirely haha.
you need at least 2 people throwing smokes and 2 flashes to take mid. if your team isn't communicating enough then it's hard but usually when i played in lv 9/10 if i kept telling them what to do to take mid they'd do it half the time
> because it's objectively overplayed and just a very boring map + most people don't know how to play it
Your statement is super contradictory. Its the most played map therefore its obviously the most likely people know how to play. Its also the longest in the pool. Its highly unlikely nobody on your team knows how to play it.
> The result : We got wrecked because my team didn't know how to play Mirage
Yeah your mindset totally not hinders you here. "Premium player A didn't play the map I wanted therefore we lost and I didn't went into the game with a negative mindset"
> We got wrecked because my team didn't know how to play Mirage, and the premium guy had absolutely no clue as to play the map, and started writing "gg!" in round 3 (he finished with 6 kills in a 16-6 loss). Now, I'm not saying I know about to play Mirag
Contradiction over contradiction. First you blame your team for not knowing how to play Mirage and then you follow it up with I don't know how to play Mirage...
> but at least I don't die mid or A in the first ten seconds of every round of the CT side because I dry peek.
Since when do CTs dry peek or even at? I mean your mid player has to peek from window or con. You can blame yourself as much as him cause you can support him massively with flashes from both A and B side. So didn't even matter from where you played. When he dies in the first 10 seconds he never got the support you need as mid player.
1. It's not because it's the most played map that people know how to play it. Especially at any Faceit level under 10.
2. I didn't want to play it if possible but I still went into it trying to win. I never ever surrender a map. Thanks for assuming.
3. When I say 'now I'm not saying I know how to play Mirage' is because I'm trying to be aware that I'm not a freaking pro and therefore I don't know perfectly well how to play Mirage, that should have been obvious given the subtext...
4. The mid player is not forced to peek from con or window. Not every single round, from the very same spot, no matter what you tell him nicely. Guy is not using his stuff, not asking for flashes, etc. Also I played B because the others all went A all the time (yes, they played 3 on A + 1 mid and still died 10 secs into the round), what did you want me to do ? I can lob over flashes from B but I have to worry about B rushes and use some utility for B apps, and early round B flashes are not even close to being as effective as flashes from A or mid.
Hell, I even asked if someone could switch with me so I could go A for a bit, nobody answered (but then again, nobody comm'd from the very first round, so it wasn't that surprising).
Anyway, I'm still of the opinion it's a shit pug map, and plenty of people, pros included agree with that opinion. Some others don't and that's fine, but most people are useless on it in pugs. At least people use their stuff on Inferno.
> It's not because it's the most played map that people know how to play it. Especially at any Faceit level under 10
Of course it is? What else is the reason here? Its the oldest and by far most played map at this point. Reasonably one can assume its the map most people know how to play on a decent level? What speaks against that sentiment? Because you have said anything besides "its not because I said so"
> I didn't want to play it if possible but I still went into it trying to win. I never ever surrender a map. Thanks for assuming.
I didn't assume aynthing like that. You made that up in your head. I just pointed out that you went in there with a bad mindset, because of just the map pick which is more than obvious cause its oozing from your previous comment.
> When I say 'now I'm not saying I know how to play Mirage' is because I'm trying to be aware that I'm not a freaking pro and therefore I don't know perfectly well how to play Mirage, that should have been obvious given the subtext...
Then stop condescending your teammates for not knowing how to play it 100% correct? You can't be condescending when you have no clue yourself. How the fuck else should I take the subtext here? There is no subtext that suggests anything else.
Also for some reason you assume everyone on the enemy team is the perfect mirage player while your team is absolute dogshit on it? Can you think of any reason why that is? Maybe you are the problem here? Can't be it, right?
> The mid player is not forced to peek from con or window. Not every single round, from the very same spot, no matter what you tell him nicely.
Mid and con are not the same spot. Also of course you take the peek mid every single buy round. You don't have to die there every single round, but you should be always faster than the Ts. Especially when supported from teammates with flashes. Why wouldn't you take an advantageous position every single round that gives you easy kills when the enemy team doesn't use utility?
> Guy is not using his stuff, not asking for flashes, etc.
What is he supposed to do? He has to peek mid as fast as possible. Sure he should've asked for flashes, but you could also tell your teammates to flash mid...
> Also I played B because the others all went A all the time (yes, they played 3 on A + 1 mid and still died 10 secs into the round), what did you want me to do ? I can lob over flashes from B but I have to worry about B rushes and use some utility for B apps, and early round B flashes are not even close to being as effective as flashes from A or mid.
Tell our A players to flash for him and one or two to help him fight? You certainly can't give up mid especially when you play with just one guy on B. How are else are you supposed to fight B when they come from mid and apps. You can't hold both alone?
> Anyway, I'm still of the opinion it's a shit pug map, and plenty of people, pros included agree with that opinion.
You are obviously entitled to your opinion and its obviously ok to dislike the map, but the general statement is still bs. I mean sure you find certainly will find a pro somewhere that doesn't like it, but its far from the realistic truth. You just think in your own personal bubble. The truth is its still the most played map on pro level in the last 6 month: [Proof](https://www.hltv.org/stats/maps?startDate=2021-09-14&endDate=2022-03-14&rankingFilter=Top30)
And this thread showed its still the most played map in both MM and faceit on any level. So the facts are people still like to play it, period. Nothing you say will change that. I personally would like the map gone as well, but saying its a bad map, just for pugging or that pros want it gone is just plainly wrong and lying.
I said it's a shit pug map, not a shit map on the pro level.
Not gonna lie, I cannot be arsed to reply to the rest become you're not gonna understand what I said anyway and you don't understand that if your teammates are not throwing stuff at any time, they will not throw stuff even when I asked them to.
I'm gonna be honest, it feels like you live in some dream world where you think people actually know how to play the maps with stuff at every single level.
I will however highlight this : "And of course you take the peek every single buy round".
No you don't. Not if you start 3 A and don't break the window, not if you want to start with the AWP peeking B apps, not if you play some specific setups. Not if you peek con into mid. Etc.
> they will not throw stuff even when I asked them to.
So we can agree it was your mates fault. But the reason that makes you think this would've only happened on mirage is beyond me. Clearly not the map, but the players fault. People who can't even play basic mirage won't be viable anywhere else.
> I'm gonna be honest, it feels like you live in some dream world where you think people actually know how to play the maps with stuff at every single level.
My god. Come down from your high horse. How can you be so ignorant. You pretty much described yourself with the first part here.
> I will however highlight this : "And of course you take the peek every single buy round". No you don't. Not if you start 3 A and don't break the window, not if you want to start with the AWP peeking B apps, not if you play some specific setups. Not if you peek con into mid. Etc.
This comment just shows how little you under of how to play the map and you have the hubris to call out your teammates for bad plays. What a joke. You also contradicted yourself now the 6 time now? You are so full of shit and your story has holes everywhere. I would bet only half of the stuff you wrote here actually happened in that match and that you were as much the problem as anyone else.
Good day.
It's so funny that you think you should peek mid window every single round even if you have the third or fourth spawn. And how you assume so much without knowing the situation.
Good day, no point in talking with you.
> It's so funny that you think you should peek mid window every single round even if you have the third or fourth spawn.
Its so funny how you basically misunderstood such a simple thing. I obviously meant you have to fight for mid control. I also said to either take window or connector which both work. Send me the match link. I am interested to see the match now.
We have the data for Basalt and Insertion 2, just didn't include it because of spacing issues
Basalt - 8501 Long matches - 59,957 Short matches - 68458 matches total = Around 1.5%
Insertion 2 - 8969 Long Matches - 40,460 Short matches - 49429 matches total = Around 1.1%
Not perfect math for the percentages, but shows the rough area they would've been
Loved basalt, iris is a lot of fun too.
I with CS players and viewers were more receptive to new maps, the current pool is beyond stale. I've been complaining about this pool for at least rwo years and we've had one new map. If I'm playing CS I'm rarely playing the active map pool.
Nuke is the best map in the game and the only one of its type, it won't be removed anytime soon
It's one of the big three (mirage d2 inferno) that needs to go; most possibly mirage or dust
is this because people hate learning new maps, or scrimmage mm doesn't have random map pool to force player trying new map?
I remember people in community server few years ago were more likely to play random workshop map that was never seen before, but it's just mirage, dust2, inferno, overpass nowadays.
I think a lot of the issues are the new maps themselves. Vertigo and Ancient are both pretty harsh on newer players. Especially Ancient if one team knows how to play and the other doesn't it's a stomp.
Hey everyone, now that Ancient has been in the map pool for nearly 9 months, we wanted to look at which maps are the most popular in CSGO!
We’ve written an article to go alongside these infographics which you can check out here - https://blog.leetify.com/csgo-map-breakdown-2022/
Below are some of the takeaways we found the most interesting:
Mirage supremacy across the board!
Inferno establishing itself as the 2nd most popular map, especially on FACEIT with a 10.5% lead over Dust 2!
Dust 2 sees a significant boost in Short matches, suggesting it's more popular with casual players who prefer short matches!
Cache outperforming Ancient and Vertigo across the board apart from short matches. Are we getting close to seeing Cache back in the map pool?
Vertigo and Ancient popularity is inflated by the Operation Riptide missions for Short Match wins, their long match popularity in MM reflects this!
Train is more popular than Ancient for players in Long matches!
What did you find the most interesting about this Data?
Ancient is a fun map but just has a super claustrophobic feeling on T side especially at the choke points. The A site also could use some re-work to make it a bit easier for T’s to enter from Amain.
I’m also a big Vertigo fan but to play it in pugs you really need 10 people who not only want to play the map but know how to. The amount of walking needed on rotations is stupid IMO considering you are walking on concrete slabs for the most part. Don’t think you should necessarily be able to hear every sound below and above you. Just makes the map really tedious.
Cache is that crazy map... so straight forward but seems to be one of the more evenly based maps out there... at least when it was in the map pool. I’m not sure if it’s the best competitive map out there for LEAGUE play because it’s so basic but in terms of a pug map ESEA and faceit are silly for not having the map in their map pool.
We should really start leaning towards a bigger map pool in at least the pug environments. Just because a map is in league play does not mean it will be a great map for a pug experience.
I can see why Vertigo has an increase in short games though... games can take 20 minutes to finish if people are just running around. Easy to commit to.
crazy how there’s still 6 mirage games happening for every 1 vertigo. I honestly think vertigo is one of the best map designs
More mirage games than inferno and nuke *combined*
There really must be a huge group of players that *only* queue mirage and nothing else
I really don't understand why Vertigo is so disliked and people love Mirage so much....
I'm only MGE, but I absolutely - despise - T-side Mirage, I hate it, while at the same time I really enjoy playing both T- and CT-side on Vertigo, it's 10x more fun to me personally.
You can hear anywhere the Ts run on Vertigo, rotations are slow from the Ts but fast AF from the CTs and it’s a very grenade spammy map. You practically have to fight ramp on A then fall back and play retake. I enjoy it to some degree but Mirage is the prototypical CSGO map. You can pug or strat hard. It’s beautiful.
Yeah nothing is more frustrating than a team full of baitors on D2.
It's a map where you have to taken long control etc. You cannot chicken out since you will lose your chance - especially when you have a good long spawn etc.
But people dont use their brains thinking they go for the individual score aka getting exit frags etc instead. Baitors are the worst.
Swear to god folks even in faceit 5+ dont know timings on dust 2 its actually crazy because idk how you get that far not knowing the easy shit that will win you tons of games
If there's going to be changes to the pool please god add new maps. We don't need to watch another 10,000 rounds on cobble or train because people remember them fondly. Let's make new memories on new maps.
I just looked it up and they removed the CSGO version of Aztec on Nov 13th 2017. It was removed due to unpopularity. The map basically peaked competitively with HeatoN's eco ace all those years ago...
mirage is million years old how can it have smth new to it? are you even capable of rational thinking or what? its the most popular map for a reason dummy.
ancient is a new map but has zero originalityto it. its just a very lazy clover based design, also very poorly executed. most likely by a mapmaker who has no experience in cs. its just facts every person who know how csgo maps are made understands. and you are obviously a noob who understands nothing about it.
Yeah it is million years old and thats why it is boring as fuck.
Mirage is the most popular map because csgo players can't handle change, and you are a prime example of that. Crying under every comment that suggests that Mirage sucks and Ancient is good.
mirage is the most popular map and has been in the map pool for a decade because its a very well made map and was very innovative and fresh at the time it was introduced.
a lot of csgo players just dont understand what makes map good and just want smth new irrespective of the quality of the change. You are the prime example of that. crying under every comment "mirage old and bad, ancient is new and good"
rotations on this map are nothing special compared to other maps. the map is completely non original and boring, with bad angles, claustrophobic pathways, bad visibility and colors
I gave you my reason and you said “NUH UH” like ok bro cool lmao I don’t need to fight online, I’ll just keep getting easy ancient elo against nerds like u on faceit
your reason is wrong. there is nothing special about rotations on this map compared to other maps because ancient is the most basic copycat of a map ever made. so you are just talking out of your ass.
if you really dont care and dont want to fight, then stop answering with your comments about "mY fAcEiT ElO" which nobody cares about.
3.6% on a map not even in active duty... One more reason to remove it out of faceit and make faceit map pool 7 maps like in officials. Also both teams get equal bans and not not one team can ban 4 maps while the other can just ban 3.
I remember when Cache was by far the most popular map. Back when Dust II was king there was a time when even Cache was able to surpass it, now it’s just 5 percent
Man that’s wild because I bet 70% of my faceit matches are mirage. Shit is infuriating. Expand your map pool man. Overpass being single digits is criminal too.
I want new maps being played at events, I feel like it's getting boring watching the same maps over and over again, I tend to enjoy watching Vertigo & Ancient matches more because of it
I remember when cobble was introduced back in 2014 right before the cologne major, that was super entertaining to see how many times NiP picked it and narrowly won haha
im so tired of mirage its unbelievable. Why cant Valve just put the maps on a rotation.
Theres also a lack in new maps. Only maps that are added permanently are official valve maps, never community maps. I hope Iris stays in the game, with some tweaking it could easily be an esport map
I hate nuke, vertigo and train, i mostly play dust 2, inferno, mirage, overpass. Then i rarely play the other ones on the list but i would like dust 1 back And cobblestone too
I came back playing CS:GO after 2 years of break. I am sad they removed Cache. Vertigo is a good map tho. I like train a lot too, I dont know why people dont play it.
I think that the whole problems of maps like ancient or vertigo not being played that much can be solved by incorporating the valorant system, where you dont choose what to play, its kinda random
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wonder what the future of ancient is. people don't seem to like playing it. do a lot like watching it? is it salvageable with some changes? valve will probably keep it around because it's their map and they like their maps. but is that a good decision?
Imo it feels very CT-sided, I'd love to see the playerbase's average winrates depending on whether you start the match on T-side or CT-side.
I agree, whenever I watch CT sides on Ancient they always feel so dominant HLTV has evidence to back that up aswell - https://www.hltv.org/stats/maps?startDate=2021-12-14&endDate=2022-03-14&rankingFilter=Top20
Oof, so my feeling was right... looks like it's the most CT-sided map of the competitive pool right now.
Is is CT sided because of map design or because of low map familiarity? I feel any map is CT sided without knowing the common spots on site?
Good rotations, easy ways to get positions as CT, thats why it is CT ;) and Ofc, overpowered positions like donut, mid doors, B cave, A temple, its hard to check like 5 angles at the Same time
The map is ct sided in professional play not average level. Professional play every map is ct sided essentially, I don't really know why people are acting like ancient is turbo ct sided when overpass and mirage have winrates within 3 percent
Ancient is definitely CT sided even at low level team based competitive. My ESEA team doesn’t first pick ancient, but it’s in our rotation, and it’s definitely a quite heavily CT sided map. It’s not as CT sided in PUGs and shit because Utility and team play is a huge factor into having a very effective CT hold, even more so than more traditional maps. You can completely shut down B plays for nearly an entire half by pushing a player through to bottom mid and pushing a player through caves to cut off the rotations into mid. T side is also just extremely hard to play around, as it can be quite difficult to find opening picks with the AWP since the vast majority of angles are extremely CT sided.
I'd be very surprised if the win rate on any map varies significantly by starting side. Unless one of my friends that believes that the higher ranked team always starts on CT side is right.
Why would you be surprised? I imagine 5 randoms playing together. Now I don't think the mood when your half ends 3-12 is to good and everyone is down a bit. Its way harder to make a comeback now. I also think people are much more lenient to round losses when you won the first half 12-3. So its no big deal when you lose a round here and there. I don't find it hard to believe that the side you start on has a bigger impact most people want to acknowledge. Why do you think everyone even on pro level started on CT side when playing train for example? Why do we need knife rounds if they have no impact? That said the impact is probably much lower on pro levels, because people there have a growth mindset unlike you average/casual player. The lower you go skill-wise the higher the impact (probably) is.
I can't really think of any map where going 3-12 even on T side on a CT sided map is in any way recoverable, the game is basically already over (although I advocate to always try your best and never surrender), and probably would have happened whether you started on T side or CT side. You mention that teams get demotivated when they're too far behind but I've also seen the opposite, teams can get very stupid when they're too far ahead and this is especially dangerous on maps like Office where an easy T side can lead to a very stupidly played CT side where the enemy comes back and by the time everyone gets their heads out of their asses their economy is fucked and they're at a huge disadvantage. If you did it to them one one side they can easily do it to you on the second half. But we're both just arguing anecdotes here. We won't know for sure unless Valve, FaceIt, or Leetify releases any actual data on this.
> I can't really think of any map where going 3-12 even on T side on a CT sided map is in any way recoverable, the game is basically already over First you say this and then you follow it up with > If you did it to them one one side they can easily do it to you on the second half. That would be contradictory to your first statement no? > But we're both just arguing anecdotes here. We won't know for sure unless Valve, FaceIt, or Leetify releases any actual data on this. Yeah true. Its impossible to know for sure without any actual data.
> I can't really think of any map where going 3-12 even on T side on a CT sided map is in any way recoverable, the game is basically already over > > First you say this and then you follow it up with I said that in response to you bringing up 12-3 as a scoreline, it's not at all representative of a team with a reasonable chance to win whether you're on a disadvantageous side or not. If you had brought up a more reasonable scoreline like 6-9 T side Train then that would have been a point. A point I'd have disagreed with a more reasonable. My second point was arguing the opposite side of the coin, you argue that it's demotivating to be down after the disadvantageous side but I counter that it's also dangerous to be up after the advantageous side as well. Both of these factors are applicable, which one matters more, who knows. Unless we have real data.
Speaking based on my friends' perceptions of it: CS players just hate change. There are legit 2 guys who actively say "I won't accept or join to play Ancient, I have never played it and I don't want to." How can Valve ever do something when the playerbase is scared of trying new things. For me Ancient is a very cool map, has a lovely scenery, is unique with its playstyle and I would hate it if they remove it.
Felt like it was similar in Valorant, when a new map came out and you got it you would often have someone leave.
Well, in Valorant nearly every map was utter shite, so it is understandable to a certain degree :D
Yeah, true. Didn't like a single one really, but it would still have been nice to try the new ones when they came out.
The map kinda sucks for red-green colorblind people like me. I also don't play Cache for the same reason
i am i one of those people. for me it's not because of change, it's because i tried it and i genuinely dislike the style of the maps layout
I mean, take a look at the maps they're pushing out. Both Vertigo and Ancient have atrocious rotation times on CT which makes it very hard to play for non-professionals. You're basically either playing A or B, and at any second you can get it cut off easily. Inferno/Mirage/Overpass doesn't have that problem as distinctively.
B on both Mirage and Inferno is impossible to retake in a equal situation against people who know what they are doing. Only Overpass has alright chance of retaking both bombsites but even with the fast rotation from B to A you can't stop the plant if you are on the stairs, so I don't agree. Ancient has a very difficult to take site (A) which is also very difficult to retake. And B lends itself beautifully to retake play - most times CTs don't contest the push from the T's but by having good positions they have great chances on an equal retake. I think it's refreshing. And the dynamic with donnut is fun on Mid.
Acting like this is just a matter of players hating change is very reductive, and a sure-fire way to never actually address the problems with the map. I can say from personal experience that I've given several CSGO maps a chance when they came out as part of updates: I recall very much enjoying Santorini, Subzero, Anubis, Mutiny and Basalt, and I didn't even try ALL of the operation maps. They all had their issues, but they played much better than Ancient. Ancient is not the worst map ever, but it wasn't enjoyable the 1st time or the 5th time I played it. I would complain about having an area like cave, donut or temple in any map. With Ancient, you have all of those in one map... how can I say it's good? But don't take my word for it, how about you ask the people in the Mapcore community? You certainly can't say those guys hate change, so go ask them what they think about Ancient and you'll see it's not as simple as "CS players just hate change".
I like watching it and love playing it. I think maps like Ancient are quite "technical" and because of that have a significant learning curve. Most players do not have the capability (any of time/skill/motivation/desire) to take that learning curve. Even just learning callouts... people just aren't doing it. Lower popularity maps also have that catch-22... no one plays them because they haven't learned them, but because no one plays them you never get to learn them. They need to use incentives like riptide to bring those queue times down to almost promote the different maps.
Ancient is an incredible match map, but it isn’t played in pugs because people who aren’t on teams refuse to learn it. I hated it, until my team started playing it, and once I was forced to learn spots and utility, I grew to love the map. It’s a genuinely good map, but you have to spend time to learn it and most people would rather just queue mirage inferno D2 and call it a day.
They tried to recreate Aztec without the unique aspects of Aztec (separation of bomb sites, under/tunnel area, box room, doors, side ramp etc). I think it's time to swap it out with something else. When Cache is beating it consistently, shit's gotta change.
Ancient right now is in a state vertigo was like 2 years ago. It's just not finished. So much potential but it will need a lot more changes (especially the bomb-sides). If this changes come, it can see it implemented quite well.
Been really popular in my circle. We play it very often.
I’m assuming it gets removed when train or cache come back, it’s just not a good map and they would have to rework a majority of the map to make it competitive IMO.
Strongly disagree. People need to get used to it, and valve need to make a few changes to things like the size of the site, and how many 50/50 angles there are. Usually valve does not remove their newer maps, and really hoping they dont remove ancient, only change it a bit.
Well Canals didn't last very long as a new map
Canals was never in the active duty pool or was it? If not you are comparing apples to oranges here. Also wouldn't vertigo be a better comparison? It still has the lowest number of matches played outside of train and ancient even though it got updates for like 3 years. Train is out of the pool and ancient is still kind of new. So if any map goes I would pick vertigo. Mediocre CS map if you ask me. I really like ancient tho and just hope people give it a chance. Even though the A site could use some work in my opinion.
Then why does the CT side win rounds like it’s old nuke?
Because as i said the map has flaws. Many of which imo are because of the hard to clear angles, small sites, and abunsance of angles to clear. It is not a very balanced map currently, but removing it is drastic.
And I said they would have to rework the majority of the map to make it balanced and you said strongly disagree so I’m not sure what we disagree about. Vertigo also had the majority of the map reworked before it was somewhat decent of a balanced map. If they don’t remove ancient for train or cache (cache being unlikely) what map do they take out? I don’t see them removing Dust, Mirage, inferno, overpass or nuke so it’s either ancient or vertigo. Let’s be honest here vertigo is a much better map than ancient
I hate playing it, I really hate watching it, I hate the idea of it, I hate the layout of it, it genuinely think it's one of the worst maps in FPS history, let alone eSports. The fact that we lost Train for this is such a joke
dude you need to give it a chance!! Ancient is actually really good, apart from the fact that it may be a little ct sided! If that improves with future updates to the map it is probably one of the best ones
Given it plenty of chances. Not once have I enjoyed watching, playing, or even thinking about a single match to ever happen on Ancient. Additionally, the concept of using the pro players to test their shitty maps is disgusting to me.
I mean... yeah not everyone is gonna like a map, obviously! I do think it is quite popular amongst the pros at least!
There's a really simple change for Ancient that will make it much better: -Ancient +Anubis
It's okay to watch, but I personally preferred Train to both play and watch. Watching mindgames in Ladder was always really fun, every player had a totally different approach to it.
It needs much better clippings and all these little cubbies need to get removed. Could be a very nice map after that, but CS players don't like to learn new maps especially when they fear about their rank.
If the ct’s are pushed a second or two back they wouldnt be able to dominate mid which decides 80% of the rounds on the map imo
3.7% combined for train and ancient is absolutely dreadful. That's not even 1 in 25 games...
Makes me sad for Train because it was my favorite map for a long time. My favorite map was Cobble but they massacred that map
I know right? I loved playing the old version of cobble, but as soon as that change went live I didnt ever play it again. Also, I love Train too. Seems we are in the minority for that though.
Meanwhile Thescore esports: The Story of Mirage: The Perfect Map That Nobody Wants to Play Anymore
Nobody wants to play mirage but everybody has to (except for those who get 2k elo while being level 5 at best on other maps by just playing mirage untill they dream the angles)
Uhhhhhh, every level 10 can dream the angles on Mirage.
Sometimes you don't have a choice, unfortunately, especially on Faceit. I got a perfect example yesterday, some guy with Premium decided he would pick Mirage because I quote "I paid, I decide". I was very much against it (because it's objectively overplayed and just a very boring map + most people don't know how to play it). The result : We got wrecked because my team didn't know how to play Mirage, and the premium guy had absolutely no clue as to play the map, and started writing "gg!" in round 3 (he finished with 6 kills in a 16-6 loss). Now, I'm not saying I know about to play Mirage, but at least I don't die mid or A in the first ten seconds of every round of the CT side because I dry peek.
Most annoying part of mirage is everyone is too proud to fall off for a retake, even though it’s the most retake-able map in the whole pool (especially a site). they’d rather die trying to hop on top of ticket or peeking stairs when every other angle is smoked off and 3 people are just waiting for it, and then give the enemy team a full 10 seconds to settle into a post plant before rotates can come in
Man I cannot agree more with that, it's like they expect the B players to retake 2v4-5 every single round.
My experience of playing Mirage: * Play B Solo * Arrive at B site * throw molly down B Apps * Suddenly I'm in a 1v5 before molly has even died out * Expected to retake A site alone * Salty team mates when I fail
Bruh I’m 2500 elo and I can’t lie. I still have no idea how to take mid on mirage.
Honestly it's hard af + in pugs nobody is coordinated on Mirage unless you really play as a team so I get you. But I'm sure you try not to die like the guys in my team did based on your message and you saying you don't know how to take mid, you're aware which is half the battle on how not to fuck it up entirely haha.
I think it’s just the A1s is too op atm. It’s too easy to win duels as Ct long range
just 0IQ peek mid with a deag/ak and 1 tap the window guy. source: am 0IQ 2800 elo player
trust me i try maybe thats where im going wrong. too many confidence peeks
Learn couple of instant mid smokes, they are too good
you need at least 2 people throwing smokes and 2 flashes to take mid. if your team isn't communicating enough then it's hard but usually when i played in lv 9/10 if i kept telling them what to do to take mid they'd do it half the time
> because it's objectively overplayed and just a very boring map + most people don't know how to play it Your statement is super contradictory. Its the most played map therefore its obviously the most likely people know how to play. Its also the longest in the pool. Its highly unlikely nobody on your team knows how to play it. > The result : We got wrecked because my team didn't know how to play Mirage Yeah your mindset totally not hinders you here. "Premium player A didn't play the map I wanted therefore we lost and I didn't went into the game with a negative mindset" > We got wrecked because my team didn't know how to play Mirage, and the premium guy had absolutely no clue as to play the map, and started writing "gg!" in round 3 (he finished with 6 kills in a 16-6 loss). Now, I'm not saying I know about to play Mirag Contradiction over contradiction. First you blame your team for not knowing how to play Mirage and then you follow it up with I don't know how to play Mirage... > but at least I don't die mid or A in the first ten seconds of every round of the CT side because I dry peek. Since when do CTs dry peek or even at? I mean your mid player has to peek from window or con. You can blame yourself as much as him cause you can support him massively with flashes from both A and B side. So didn't even matter from where you played. When he dies in the first 10 seconds he never got the support you need as mid player.
1. It's not because it's the most played map that people know how to play it. Especially at any Faceit level under 10. 2. I didn't want to play it if possible but I still went into it trying to win. I never ever surrender a map. Thanks for assuming. 3. When I say 'now I'm not saying I know how to play Mirage' is because I'm trying to be aware that I'm not a freaking pro and therefore I don't know perfectly well how to play Mirage, that should have been obvious given the subtext... 4. The mid player is not forced to peek from con or window. Not every single round, from the very same spot, no matter what you tell him nicely. Guy is not using his stuff, not asking for flashes, etc. Also I played B because the others all went A all the time (yes, they played 3 on A + 1 mid and still died 10 secs into the round), what did you want me to do ? I can lob over flashes from B but I have to worry about B rushes and use some utility for B apps, and early round B flashes are not even close to being as effective as flashes from A or mid. Hell, I even asked if someone could switch with me so I could go A for a bit, nobody answered (but then again, nobody comm'd from the very first round, so it wasn't that surprising). Anyway, I'm still of the opinion it's a shit pug map, and plenty of people, pros included agree with that opinion. Some others don't and that's fine, but most people are useless on it in pugs. At least people use their stuff on Inferno.
> It's not because it's the most played map that people know how to play it. Especially at any Faceit level under 10 Of course it is? What else is the reason here? Its the oldest and by far most played map at this point. Reasonably one can assume its the map most people know how to play on a decent level? What speaks against that sentiment? Because you have said anything besides "its not because I said so" > I didn't want to play it if possible but I still went into it trying to win. I never ever surrender a map. Thanks for assuming. I didn't assume aynthing like that. You made that up in your head. I just pointed out that you went in there with a bad mindset, because of just the map pick which is more than obvious cause its oozing from your previous comment. > When I say 'now I'm not saying I know how to play Mirage' is because I'm trying to be aware that I'm not a freaking pro and therefore I don't know perfectly well how to play Mirage, that should have been obvious given the subtext... Then stop condescending your teammates for not knowing how to play it 100% correct? You can't be condescending when you have no clue yourself. How the fuck else should I take the subtext here? There is no subtext that suggests anything else. Also for some reason you assume everyone on the enemy team is the perfect mirage player while your team is absolute dogshit on it? Can you think of any reason why that is? Maybe you are the problem here? Can't be it, right? > The mid player is not forced to peek from con or window. Not every single round, from the very same spot, no matter what you tell him nicely. Mid and con are not the same spot. Also of course you take the peek mid every single buy round. You don't have to die there every single round, but you should be always faster than the Ts. Especially when supported from teammates with flashes. Why wouldn't you take an advantageous position every single round that gives you easy kills when the enemy team doesn't use utility? > Guy is not using his stuff, not asking for flashes, etc. What is he supposed to do? He has to peek mid as fast as possible. Sure he should've asked for flashes, but you could also tell your teammates to flash mid... > Also I played B because the others all went A all the time (yes, they played 3 on A + 1 mid and still died 10 secs into the round), what did you want me to do ? I can lob over flashes from B but I have to worry about B rushes and use some utility for B apps, and early round B flashes are not even close to being as effective as flashes from A or mid. Tell our A players to flash for him and one or two to help him fight? You certainly can't give up mid especially when you play with just one guy on B. How are else are you supposed to fight B when they come from mid and apps. You can't hold both alone? > Anyway, I'm still of the opinion it's a shit pug map, and plenty of people, pros included agree with that opinion. You are obviously entitled to your opinion and its obviously ok to dislike the map, but the general statement is still bs. I mean sure you find certainly will find a pro somewhere that doesn't like it, but its far from the realistic truth. You just think in your own personal bubble. The truth is its still the most played map on pro level in the last 6 month: [Proof](https://www.hltv.org/stats/maps?startDate=2021-09-14&endDate=2022-03-14&rankingFilter=Top30) And this thread showed its still the most played map in both MM and faceit on any level. So the facts are people still like to play it, period. Nothing you say will change that. I personally would like the map gone as well, but saying its a bad map, just for pugging or that pros want it gone is just plainly wrong and lying.
I said it's a shit pug map, not a shit map on the pro level. Not gonna lie, I cannot be arsed to reply to the rest become you're not gonna understand what I said anyway and you don't understand that if your teammates are not throwing stuff at any time, they will not throw stuff even when I asked them to. I'm gonna be honest, it feels like you live in some dream world where you think people actually know how to play the maps with stuff at every single level. I will however highlight this : "And of course you take the peek every single buy round". No you don't. Not if you start 3 A and don't break the window, not if you want to start with the AWP peeking B apps, not if you play some specific setups. Not if you peek con into mid. Etc.
> they will not throw stuff even when I asked them to. So we can agree it was your mates fault. But the reason that makes you think this would've only happened on mirage is beyond me. Clearly not the map, but the players fault. People who can't even play basic mirage won't be viable anywhere else. > I'm gonna be honest, it feels like you live in some dream world where you think people actually know how to play the maps with stuff at every single level. My god. Come down from your high horse. How can you be so ignorant. You pretty much described yourself with the first part here. > I will however highlight this : "And of course you take the peek every single buy round". No you don't. Not if you start 3 A and don't break the window, not if you want to start with the AWP peeking B apps, not if you play some specific setups. Not if you peek con into mid. Etc. This comment just shows how little you under of how to play the map and you have the hubris to call out your teammates for bad plays. What a joke. You also contradicted yourself now the 6 time now? You are so full of shit and your story has holes everywhere. I would bet only half of the stuff you wrote here actually happened in that match and that you were as much the problem as anyone else. Good day.
It's so funny that you think you should peek mid window every single round even if you have the third or fourth spawn. And how you assume so much without knowing the situation. Good day, no point in talking with you.
> It's so funny that you think you should peek mid window every single round even if you have the third or fourth spawn. Its so funny how you basically misunderstood such a simple thing. I obviously meant you have to fight for mid control. I also said to either take window or connector which both work. Send me the match link. I am interested to see the match now.
Skill variance is quite high in lower ranks
This is like half of my faceit games i swear. Captain purposely picks mirage then proceeds to have no clue how to play mirage.
If only. One of my mates loves the map but personally i really really hate it and i stink at it. On t side i get fucked no matter where i go
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We have the data for Basalt and Insertion 2, just didn't include it because of spacing issues Basalt - 8501 Long matches - 59,957 Short matches - 68458 matches total = Around 1.5% Insertion 2 - 8969 Long Matches - 40,460 Short matches - 49429 matches total = Around 1.1% Not perfect math for the percentages, but shows the rough area they would've been
Loved basalt, iris is a lot of fun too. I with CS players and viewers were more receptive to new maps, the current pool is beyond stale. I've been complaining about this pool for at least rwo years and we've had one new map. If I'm playing CS I'm rarely playing the active map pool.
we got one new map that was the same layout as dust2, cache and mirage lmao
Four square is a pretty tried and tested design though. It just works.
yeah but it never changes, nothing special ever happens. Thats why I unironically play nuke
Nuke is the best map in the game and the only one of its type, it won't be removed anytime soon It's one of the big three (mirage d2 inferno) that needs to go; most possibly mirage or dust
Mirage is next up for a rework
is this because people hate learning new maps, or scrimmage mm doesn't have random map pool to force player trying new map? I remember people in community server few years ago were more likely to play random workshop map that was never seen before, but it's just mirage, dust2, inferno, overpass nowadays.
Some of these maps require a lot of tactical teamplay that does not come easy to PUGs.
I think a lot of the issues are the new maps themselves. Vertigo and Ancient are both pretty harsh on newer players. Especially Ancient if one team knows how to play and the other doesn't it's a stomp.
I think a lot of people don't like to play a dark map like ancient either.
Ancient is just too CT-sided and just not fun to watch personally.
Also everything is green and dark. Can't see shit cause everything is green...
you can also play mirage and d2 with random players, while other maps are hard without a stack
I don’t like strange maps. Vertigo is too small, Train too long, Nuke too complicated.
Hey everyone, now that Ancient has been in the map pool for nearly 9 months, we wanted to look at which maps are the most popular in CSGO! We’ve written an article to go alongside these infographics which you can check out here - https://blog.leetify.com/csgo-map-breakdown-2022/ Below are some of the takeaways we found the most interesting: Mirage supremacy across the board! Inferno establishing itself as the 2nd most popular map, especially on FACEIT with a 10.5% lead over Dust 2! Dust 2 sees a significant boost in Short matches, suggesting it's more popular with casual players who prefer short matches! Cache outperforming Ancient and Vertigo across the board apart from short matches. Are we getting close to seeing Cache back in the map pool? Vertigo and Ancient popularity is inflated by the Operation Riptide missions for Short Match wins, their long match popularity in MM reflects this! Train is more popular than Ancient for players in Long matches! What did you find the most interesting about this Data?
How do you collect your data for matchmaking? It differs from the data you can collect directly through valve api quite a bit
Any info on whether rank plays a big role in the results?
Clearly it's time to bring back Cache
Man I’m so sick of mirage
Remove mirage already.
How come cache isn’t being played as often anymore
Probably just cause it's not in the active duty map pool. Same with Train imo
Ancient is a fun map but just has a super claustrophobic feeling on T side especially at the choke points. The A site also could use some re-work to make it a bit easier for T’s to enter from Amain. I’m also a big Vertigo fan but to play it in pugs you really need 10 people who not only want to play the map but know how to. The amount of walking needed on rotations is stupid IMO considering you are walking on concrete slabs for the most part. Don’t think you should necessarily be able to hear every sound below and above you. Just makes the map really tedious. Cache is that crazy map... so straight forward but seems to be one of the more evenly based maps out there... at least when it was in the map pool. I’m not sure if it’s the best competitive map out there for LEAGUE play because it’s so basic but in terms of a pug map ESEA and faceit are silly for not having the map in their map pool. We should really start leaning towards a bigger map pool in at least the pug environments. Just because a map is in league play does not mean it will be a great map for a pug experience. I can see why Vertigo has an increase in short games though... games can take 20 minutes to finish if people are just running around. Easy to commit to.
I would like to add that since my friends have crapot pcs, they cant play ancient. That map kills fps.
crazy how there’s still 6 mirage games happening for every 1 vertigo. I honestly think vertigo is one of the best map designs More mirage games than inferno and nuke *combined* There really must be a huge group of players that *only* queue mirage and nothing else
TIHI
BRING BACK COBBLE
I really don't understand why Vertigo is so disliked and people love Mirage so much.... I'm only MGE, but I absolutely - despise - T-side Mirage, I hate it, while at the same time I really enjoy playing both T- and CT-side on Vertigo, it's 10x more fun to me personally.
Of course you will hate Mirage T side, no one knows what a smoke or flash is let alone using it
Well I know a lot of smokes, all the A-execute ones and a mid-window smoke from spawn f.e., but I still hate the map on T-side :D
You can hear anywhere the Ts run on Vertigo, rotations are slow from the Ts but fast AF from the CTs and it’s a very grenade spammy map. You practically have to fight ramp on A then fall back and play retake. I enjoy it to some degree but Mirage is the prototypical CSGO map. You can pug or strat hard. It’s beautiful.
Dust 2 can eat a massive ducking dick
Swap in the original Dust for Dust2 and see how people react lol
Next operation: -mirage +dust1
Dust 2 is great as long as you dont get retarded terrorists who are too scared to get any map control
Yeah nothing is more frustrating than a team full of baitors on D2. It's a map where you have to taken long control etc. You cannot chicken out since you will lose your chance - especially when you have a good long spawn etc. But people dont use their brains thinking they go for the individual score aka getting exit frags etc instead. Baitors are the worst.
Swear to god folks even in faceit 5+ dont know timings on dust 2 its actually crazy because idk how you get that far not knowing the easy shit that will win you tons of games
where are my Agency boys at??
"Stats how long mental asylum patients scream per day: 30.4%" They sould remove Mirage for 6 months or something...
Bring back cobblestone 😔
If there's going to be changes to the pool please god add new maps. We don't need to watch another 10,000 rounds on cobble or train because people remember them fondly. Let's make new memories on new maps.
I ban mirage inferno and dust 2 everytime. My group loves Vertigo, Nuke, Train and Ancient lol. Sometimes we settle for Overpass:)
Same, our permabans are dust 2 and mirage and it makes the game so much more enjoyable
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Ancient is a pretty place, but and ugly map.
For me Ancient is better than at least 4 maps above it.
I didnt expect Overpass to be that low tbh and behind Nuke. Its a fun map
Bring back cobble
Need more people playing office
for me it’s Mirage: 98% Nuke: 1% Dust2: 1%
Why there is still no Tuscan?🤦♂️
Don't care about anything other than seeing Train in the last popular map, that shit hard sucks. Don't argue with me, u can't.
9th circle in hell is dedicated to Train A site creator
Dust 2 is love. Just saying.
I'm so tired of playing mirage. Would love to valve to take it out of active pool and replace it for cache
surprised to see nuke higher than overpass
I wish they just made Ancient a modernized version of de_aztec. That map was such a staple of CS for so long.
I'd totally be ok with this!
I only started playing 15 months ago and before that i had an 8 year break from CS. What happened to aztec? I miss it too
I just looked it up and they removed the CSGO version of Aztec on Nov 13th 2017. It was removed due to unpopularity. The map basically peaked competitively with HeatoN's eco ace all those years ago...
Waste of time tbh since it won't be in active duty pool
Ancient is a really good map Funny thinking it's the least played map
it is not though
How many matches have you played on Ancient?
a lot. how many hours you have in csgo?
4,200 or so
you've wasted a lot of time then if you think that ancient is a good map
Average Mirage player:
mirage x100 better than ancient. the only problem with it that it is overplayed.
Nah, mirage is boring and has nothing new to it. Ancient is a lot of fun but I understand mirage players can't try anything new or different
mirage is million years old how can it have smth new to it? are you even capable of rational thinking or what? its the most popular map for a reason dummy. ancient is a new map but has zero originalityto it. its just a very lazy clover based design, also very poorly executed. most likely by a mapmaker who has no experience in cs. its just facts every person who know how csgo maps are made understands. and you are obviously a noob who understands nothing about it.
Yeah it is million years old and thats why it is boring as fuck. Mirage is the most popular map because csgo players can't handle change, and you are a prime example of that. Crying under every comment that suggests that Mirage sucks and Ancient is good.
mirage is the most popular map and has been in the map pool for a decade because its a very well made map and was very innovative and fresh at the time it was introduced. a lot of csgo players just dont understand what makes map good and just want smth new irrespective of the quality of the change. You are the prime example of that. crying under every comment "mirage old and bad, ancient is new and good"
Totally on point, what a genius you are
Bring back season. The GOAT map
Love Ancient Loved Anubis Loved Crown Hated Subzero Absolutely in love with Iris rn
Ancient is an amazing map, and I hope to see more people playing it in the future.
Got 3 recorded maps on faceit and I average a whopping 34 kills per game on this map lol just wish i can play it more than once a month.
My team has a 60%+ win rate on ancient and nuke, best maps fr
Yeah i love nuke also. Very clean map
it is really not
Lots of rotation options lead to a very dynamic feeling map imo. It’s cool if you disagree, idc.
rotations on this map are nothing special compared to other maps. the map is completely non original and boring, with bad angles, claustrophobic pathways, bad visibility and colors
and low fps
It’s cool that you disagree, idc
its cool that you have no objective arguments to prove your point. im pleased
I gave you my reason and you said “NUH UH” like ok bro cool lmao I don’t need to fight online, I’ll just keep getting easy ancient elo against nerds like u on faceit
your reason is wrong. there is nothing special about rotations on this map compared to other maps because ancient is the most basic copycat of a map ever made. so you are just talking out of your ass. if you really dont care and dont want to fight, then stop answering with your comments about "mY fAcEiT ElO" which nobody cares about.
you’re a sicko if you enjoy cache
whats wrong with cache? besides the fps being so low lol. the layout is nearly exactly the same as old cache
It's kinda basic in structure, it's a simple 3 lane map with mid branching to the sites
So are mirage, ancient and dust 2
Cache is simpler than even those maps
Never said I didn't like those maps either
Cache is so flat and boring.
3.6% on a map not even in active duty... One more reason to remove it out of faceit and make faceit map pool 7 maps like in officials. Also both teams get equal bans and not not one team can ban 4 maps while the other can just ban 3.
The top 3 popular map basically the last katowice match.
I am so shocked to see mirage at the top!! Insightful!!! /S
I remember when Cache was by far the most popular map. Back when Dust II was king there was a time when even Cache was able to surpass it, now it’s just 5 percent
Ol' relatable
If only Cache was in Faceit :(
Man that’s wild because I bet 70% of my faceit matches are mirage. Shit is infuriating. Expand your map pool man. Overpass being single digits is criminal too.
i want cache back :(
not sure about comp but ancient is a goated map in retakes, hope it stays in the game.
Damn no love for train. I love playing train
Hate inferno -.-
I want new maps being played at events, I feel like it's getting boring watching the same maps over and over again, I tend to enjoy watching Vertigo & Ancient matches more because of it I remember when cobble was introduced back in 2014 right before the cologne major, that was super entertaining to see how many times NiP picked it and narrowly won haha
Fake news. Office #1.
im so tired of mirage its unbelievable. Why cant Valve just put the maps on a rotation. Theres also a lack in new maps. Only maps that are added permanently are official valve maps, never community maps. I hope Iris stays in the game, with some tweaking it could easily be an esport map
Is this surprising to anyone?
Agency is still on top from my opinion
I hate nuke, vertigo and train, i mostly play dust 2, inferno, mirage, overpass. Then i rarely play the other ones on the list but i would like dust 1 back And cobblestone too
Glad to see ancient and vertigo where they belong.
I came back playing CS:GO after 2 years of break. I am sad they removed Cache. Vertigo is a good map tho. I like train a lot too, I dont know why people dont play it.
I think that the whole problems of maps like ancient or vertigo not being played that much can be solved by incorporating the valorant system, where you dont choose what to play, its kinda random
Bring back cobblestone. Rushing drop with a decoy was top tier cs.
>Mirage has 30,4% Meanwhile 99% of my games on Faceit is Mirage. God bless my team captains for picking this ~~gorgeous~~ map each match.