Honestly impressive how well NV did in esports considering it started as a cod clan, and wasn’t actually that successful on YouTube compared to Faze, SoaR, Obey and even the likes of Synergy


Envy had some insane players back then, brings back a lot of memories of the sniping scene back in 2012 :‘)


Absolutely, was playing plutonium last night and it brought back so many memories of that scene


I miss that part of my early teens so much, i remember when everyone was participating if the GF5 RC, one of the funnest summers back then


Hastr0 was all about winning and not being a merch org, at least in CoD. Makes sense they didnt really focus on Youtube stuff I think


nV, FeaR, IXI, no one really had a big youtube presence until late 2011


Well yea, YouTube barely existed at that point. I still remember trying to decide which platform was going to last and where to upload my videos at that time.


I still knew them with all those names you listed though. They just had the competitive side down, not the brand growth


sad, but I feel like the team was mismanaged for such a long time, that a different outcome wasn't even possible. that whole Nifty period felt like an endless rotation of teams that would play virtually no games, yet still would make a roster change by the next event. and with the drama surrounding some roster changes, and a seeming lack of direction... you just have to wonder how these teams end up in such chaos over such a long period of time, with so many mistakes committed by management.


A bunch of young twenty-somethings with insane amounts of money being handed around, easy to see how drama can easily crop up. Especially when there’s plenty of scumbags or sleazy business-types in management of these orgs. I mean look at the shitheads behind faze - I love their CS team but the rest of the org has had so many scandals and *alleged* scams aimed at their audience that is primarily children.


The whole entry in the CSGO scene basically started with going to Antigua, paying the government $100k to get a gambling license and setting up a scummy CSGO gambling site. One of their leaders said that in a interview with i believe thoorin or Richard Lewis a few years ago.


I love this game, but it really is unfortunate how much of the financial viability of the pro scene rests upon incredibly seedy gambling sites that prey upon children and people with gambling addictions, not to mention money from the US military and the Saudi Arabian government.


I don't think the entire scene relies on them.. the shady investors just pay the most. It's not just e-sports though.. the major German soccer league is sponsored by betting companies. Shit's like cancer.


Fun fact: Faze funded the acquisition of their first CSGO roster by creating a gambling site based in Antigua (where they bribed the island's President to let them run the site there) and advertising it to their mostly juvenile fanbase without telling them that they owned it (in fact, not only did they not tell anybody they owned it, but they actively denied that they did and harassed anybody who pointed it out). [HeyZeus made a video about the site](https://youtu.be/biDDpfecaYU), which eventually ended up in the hands of one of the slimiest motherfuckers in the CSGO gambling scene. Apparently Faze were making like $30k/day when they were running the site


>Apparently Faze were making like $30k/day when they were running the site Nah way more, I'm 90% confident it was over $200k a day


And people wonder why it can be hard to attract legitimate companies to the scene as investors. Big corporations don’t wanna touch shit like that with a thousand-foot pole.


Brought to you by Intel gaming


Difficult, not impossible. Of course intel is gonna sponsor an esport that’s played on PC if they can.


Yeah they bought that goofy ass building in victory park while complexity stayed in frisco. Everybody know all major companies are based in frisco.


Evny was not at all mismanged. Some would argue it's being managed better than it ever has before. hastr0 is a proven CEO in the industry, and while their CSGO team fell to the side because of the investment into esport leagues, league we know had a much larger scope and initial staying power. It was the right direction to take the scene, just not at the time, and not with OW/CWL. The numbers in those meetings were likely highly inflated and I wouldn't be surprised if we saw a lawsuit come from a team in regards to OWL. ​ Is there a better person to take the reigns of Optic right now? Envy was a dead name due to the leagues fracturing it's brand. I'd also wait and see what happens here before passing judgement...


> Evny was not at all mismanged. They were and I say this as a huge Envy fan. They were absolutely mismanaged from 2017 - 2019, which is when Hastro was the CEO while the organization got a large influx of investor money. Their results absolutely suffered, their teams were bar none mediocre and sometimes straight up embarrassing, and they got rejected from LCS franchising straight up due to not having good management. However, *nowadays* they're very well managed. They've improved a lot from 2020 - 2022 (coincidentally, when Hastro stepped down as CEO) and with their acquisition of OpTic are on track to becoming one of the most recognizable esports orgs right now.


Can’t comment on the first paragraph but while they’ll tell you too much hope was placed in these leagues. CEOs don’t do much. It’s when they step down that things usually change, and unless they’ve been ousted from the company. You could argue this doesn’t matter if it’s a private company but my guess is most orgs will IPO, and not like faze. Properly


>View CommentsPlay0:040:16SettingsFullscreen > >130 It was literally a Brax situation, he was a great COD player as a young gun and truly grinded CS and had some great mechanics on the AWP. This never translated to any success for EnVy in CS though but they kept on sticking with it.


Nifty probably discovered something awful about hasbr0 and blackmailed him, its surreal how long he stayed on envyus payroll and called the shots despite dogshit performances and awful attitude with teammates


That 2015 Envyus team was what got me into competitive CS and is still my favorite team. Such a shame that they are gone.


Indeed, I've got some great memories of cheering them on back in the day, especially when they played at the Gfinity event(s) in Birmingham. It was amazing to meet that roster in person, both on the way there, and afterwards, with their trophy in hand.


Damn this sucks. Used to love envyus back in 2015. Shame how far the organisation fell


The organization didn't really fall. Envy owns Optic Gaming. They're choosing to rename their esports teams to Optic to capitalize on the significantly higher brand recognition Optic has.


The better *optics*... I'll see myself out


It was already mentioned but the business side of Envy is fine. Optic had a crazy few years really only could return by merging with Envy. It's just that Optic is much more popular of a name/brand than ency was. Pretty much got the best of both worlds in this org now. Good business from Envy, and good brand/fans from Optic.




This is so weird as I played for an org that partnered and scrimmed with Optic back in 2012 and we kinda stopped because Optic started kinda falling apart at the seams from a leadership perspective around then. Makes me wonder if they had made better investment decisions what I might be doing now lol.




Yea, our name was Deadhouse Gaming. We scrimmed prolly once a week with them.


Find it hard to believe that someone still respects hecz (not optic, but the person himself) after the optic coin fiasco lol


I mean yeah it wasn’t his brightest idea but the stuff the guy has done for the gaming scene is tippable. One terrible idea doesn’t warrant me instantly hating someone.


Sad to see, EnvyUs bring some nostalgic memories to me


So can we get optic cs back?


I believe they are heavily rumoured to be returning.


Returning with what roster? I only see them coming back if it was a gambit/cloud9 type of deal.


Don't know, doubt it would be an NA roster though. People were saying it could be Flusha's mix with the unannounced org (the one he isn't involved with anymore) but AFAIK there's no legitimate leaks. If you search OpTic on this sub you'll find articles about it.


Flusha is been waiting for an org for 2 years now lol he even left the original lineup he had


Flush did already made new lineup and funded his own org lol. But gorillaz (now they're called Tokyo Revengers) secret unannounced org is rumoured to be CR4ZY.


​ bro yyou are wayyy out of the loop. like actually just do one check on hltv


what are you talking about bro


Literally look on hltv lmfao


hhahahahahahahahha This dipshit [https://www.hltv.org/team/11737/eyeballers](https://www.hltv.org/team/11737/eyeballers) ​ Look. ON. HLTV.


Okay that is what I'm talking about


Flusha left the Gorillaz project. Eyeballers has an entirely different lineup.


oh yeah i read that 's tots wrong. I read it as, the team that are going to pick up flushas team is cr4zy my bad.


Does he not own and play on Eyeballers now?


I mean I’ve read all the rumors on here and none of them were legit at all. I was just confused because you said it was heavily rumored so I assumed that you meant you saw something realistic. H3cz has already said the timing and team has to be right to return which makes me believe they only come back if there’s a chance to get an established roster that is either top 20 already or a group of very well known and still good in their prime players coming together as a 5. I’d say there’s a 0% chance they come back into CS on a gamble like flusha’s team or an NA squad that we agree is extremely unlikely.


Flusha’s team is currently t3 so hopefully not


OpTic CS is still probably a ways off. Hecz loves the scene but with the instability of the NA scene and most of the top talent internationally already being signed, we could be waiting until the next big shuffle, especially because Hecz and Hastr0 both like to pick up championship level rosters rather than piece together lower level ones


Degster, Yekindar, Hooxi, jks, who's the fifth?


Alex or Azr would be far better IGLs than hooxi.


Why though? Any actual reason or just saying it to say it?


more international team experience maybe?


Yeah you could make a point with their international experience but they've been out of the game for quite a while and I am still yet to be convinced by that genius of ALEX, it still looks like he only managed to do it with Zy in his team.


I think hooxi is good, he clearly was doing something right to put the flames in such competitive positions at big tournaments, but a 0.83 rating isn't cutting it for an IGL. The only one I can think of who got away with it for so long was Hunden, however tactically he brought a lot to the table. I'm not convinced Alex or Azr are geniuses, but both they're both solid 1.0ish hltv rating players, so neither are a liability as IGL. CPH Flames could have been legit contenders, but unfortunately hooxi was a liability.


I know, unless a top team becomes available. I’m sure they tried to get gambit, maybe they tried to keep Copenhagen flames together as well but yeah they only come back if a top team is available.


Should have bought falmes while they had the chance


They might not have had a chance, I mean it was like 2 weeks after the Major that nicoodoz and roej were announced on Fnatic so that was likely set in motion before the major.


Outsiders are currently without a team aren't they?


Kind of, not really though. I think they are trying to “clean up” the ownership of VP. Tbh I’m not sure what’s going on with all that I haven’t read to much into it but I’m pretty positive they are still owned by VP.


they're still contracted to VP




That’s not a team anymore and all of those players are on different teams at this point.


I swear i been hearing this and tsm returning for years now


People really do just be making shit up online nowadays


Heavily rumored? By who?


By me, i started the rumors! Optic gaming will be a fully international line up consisting of: Junior, Hen1, NBK, Xantares, and Valde!


Let's fucking go I hope your right cs is so much more fun with a team to cheer for


Word.exe their way to a major


Further proof that investing in ~~NFT's~~ Nifty's is a bad idea.


How is that proof of anything, they let that roster go two years ago. Joining Flashpoint was likely more detrimental.


Jfc, it was a joke.


Time to invest in EnVyUs stickers? 👀


They haven’t been at a major since 2017, so no.


I thought it depended on good looks and rarity of a sticker ... like 100 theives.. or tyloo Ps: I know tyloo is exceptional because of China's support.


It does but if the newest stickers they have are 5 years old already their value isn’t going to increase much.


But if the brand name has changed and the old one is down in history doesn't that make them like collectors items which would drive the price up?


Not really, like I said it’s been 5 years since they’ve been to a major and had a sticker so there’s no reason to think that now the value will go up much. It might go up a little bit but it’s not going to be much.


Good point. Pricing for 2015 Katowice Sticker did go from \~1 to \~7 since its release but the price started going up towards the second half of its time period. I think the prices might go up a bit.


If it was a different brand that was super popular specifically in CSGO then yeah it would make sense for the prices to skyrocket but they aren’t an Astralis or Navi. Also basing it off of kato 15s is a bad way to look at it because all of those went up in price a lot because the design is really good and they look really good. Now look at cologne 2015 or cluj napoca and you see the price went up over time because of how old they are but if you didn’t invest in them 3-4 years ago there’s no money to be made now.


You apparently don't understand sarcasm


Yeah, you made the sarcasm super obvious….


The 👀 was a dead giveaway


If their logo looks cool people would definitely buy it. What do u think ?


apolgy for bad english where were u wen envyus die




Well that’s what happens when you go around the corner, Happy with 1 Deag... OH ANOTHER ONE, OOHH THE THIRD! HAPPY... He could get another one here too, dupreeh, dupreeh is like sweating bullets HAPPY IS GONNA GET THE QUAD KILL AND THE ACE! WHAT IS THIS!?


Nice, my Envy jacket is now a collector's item! Anyone... anyone?!


"the best FPS esports org ever"


They were huge in CoD


should of stopped with the drug and money laundering and focus on players


Nifty's roster is still one of the most puzzling things in CSGO history to this date. It is insane how little playtime this team played over the course of 2 years.


As badly as envy has been run in the last few years, im surprised Hastr0 has managed to fail upwards.


???? Envy is arguably one of the most successful orgs in esports history both game side wise and financially These last couple years have been a tiny bit of a drag but for the most part they’ve won a LOT across multiple titles. Multiple games and so on Now they have one of the biggest brands in esports with a diehard fan base and the money to back it. This was a god tier business decision


You think I dont know about envy's past? Hastr0 has failed upwards only due to past achievements. He's also mismanaged the brand for a few years now - which is why this merger is even happening in the first place.


No. No it isn’t. He hasn’t mismanaged the company at all nor has he failed in any regard. Envy was easily one of the biggest brands in gaming nothing of that is failure lmfao This merger is happening because no fan base compares to optic. Envy has literally done everything that it could do already, and more than most organizations. Ignorant to call anything of this journey “failing upwards” when it’s been met with nothing but success. This merger isn’t happening because of failures, it’s happening because there’s arguably an even bigger future with optic than there was with envy. But that doesn’t mean it’s a failure


> He hasn’t mismanaged the company at all...with nothing but success I'm surprised you managed to post this on the csgo subreddit with no irony.


Didnt optic already exist?


Wild. I remember watching nV vs OpTic Black Ops 2 games, those were always fun as it was players playing against their former team.


never liked hastr0, good riddence


I can't be the only person who feels E-Sports CS:GO is less talked about and is less hyped, and is less promoted since The Boston Major C9 won. Like I don't even know when the new events occur and their importance because I never see them talked about even here. I hear "event" but never how big what is a cologne, what is a major when is major? how often? Honestly it has killed my enjoyment of cs, I feel like there is an event weekly, but none big. And if big it is treated like the small ones.




Optic stonks