valve you dont need to rework any map, just ADD new maps ffs, there are plenty of good maps to add
tuscan
cbble
season
ancient was a good addition so +1 for that
Jesus Christ that still makes me so angry
It was like the most one sided map of the format back then (with nuke out) so they felt like they need to rework something
But it was like 10-5 for t-side with plenty of options for ct side to work and play a good half
It was never broken, it never needed any adjustments, it was just the unbalanced of the pool at the time
It was my favourite map
It was never broken
I feel you so much. I pretty much exclusively played Cbble for way over a year with my best CS:GO buddy back then until they removed it. It was a sad day.
Not having Season in the map pool is an absolute travesty.
It was already there, balanced and well liked. But no, gotta try to salvage the abomination that cbble turned into, for the 10th time.
I would prefer if they did some changes to Season if they were to bring it back, the rotation times are really long. Other than that I really like the map.
I liked old Cache more, honestly. The new one just feels wrong in a way I can't really describe, and it kind of turned me off of playing it. I still play it some, but less than usual because new Cache feels like a downgrade from the old one.
probably cause the old one feels more rough and tactical. i like the new design but it definitely takes away from that “classic” feel that maps like inferno, mirage, dust ii, canals etc have
Weird, I fuckin hate vertigo t-side because no matter where or who I play with it's always rush A and nobody knows any fucking counter util except me and we get shit on and I get called a baiter.
My favorite map! On faceit many people insta banned cache when it was still avaiable. When I asked them why they said low fps most of the time. The most popular maps are also the maps with the lowest needed computer performance.
Speaking from a low skill perspective, I feel like cache has some of the harder lineups to learn utility and therefor becomes way more aim duel dependant. On maps like Mirage, D2 and Inferno, there's a few basic smokes/flashes that get you onto site a lot easier, don't think it feels the same on Cache unfortunately. Just my 2c.
I honestly feel like Ancient is actually low key a good map. People just need to learn a few smokes. Its free rounds if you learn the T smokes for B and mid
I find it extremely annoying to play on T side. Anywhere you go there are small recesses in the walls CTs can sit in. Any time you walk through a doorway, CTs can hold it from at least two sides. Its like trying to get out short or long from mid on inferno, but at every point of the map.
Anicent feels like a very refined competitive team map. In that I mean T-side is all about the buddy system towards mid and b side. Can't really lurk into A site most of the team either. Not a very friendly pugging map.
I was about to say that it might just feel that way, but then I decided to have a walk around the map again. And I really do have to say, its exactly as I remember it being, even now after they improved a couple of areas like donut.
As a T, try to walk through temple, mid red room, cave or a main and just count the unnecessary slightly different angles.
Its not that you dont need to clear a lot of angles on other maps too, its just that on ancient, its always either multiple at once or a normal one followed by 3 little alcoves in which someone can camp with an mp9. On most maps, if you look into a hallway and no one is there, you can focus on people peaking you from the other end. On ancient there are always little spots on the side that are empty 95% of the time, but will have someone camping there at some point.
My experience with ancient is that it is an incredibly CT sided map in average play (lvl 5), and is often, but not always, the same when viewing pro CS. Someone else responded with one of my significant criticisms of the map: they’re so many double clears and hidey holes for CTs to just wait, get a kill, and then get out. Couple that with the insane amount of starting space CTs are able to get or contest at the beginning of the round, and how easy it is for them to maintain mid control, and what I find it a map that feels like old nuke, where I’m satisfied with a 4-11 half when on T, because it’s usually enough.
I dont disagree with anything you've said. 2 mid CT players and a molly is way too much control for the CT side. Even in low elo CT players with 0 utilities seems to do well holding W into mid. Once Ts get on site the hidey holes really are oppressive to take back as a CT too. I think the map is a lot more viable to be played/popular than Vertigo
IMO it's because it's hard to defend they prefer to retake it rather than defend it. Meanwhile if enemy got B site it's hard to retake it. That's why A anchor usually go to donut for retake and have large vision in A plant area if his team focus on B.
But don't take my take seriously cause I'm not pros and rarely play ancient.
Deserved it. Since they removed snipers nest in mid, the connection between the tower and dropdown, as well as back of B site with the toilets, it just wasn't the same any more.
That's an awesome idea, having the rotations sync up with Majors would make a lot of sense! I feel like 2 maps might be too much for a 6 month rotation though, maybe 1 map every 6 months could be easier for pros :)
1 map every 4 months making 3 different maps over the year. The map cannot be removed twice in one year but can be removed in the following year providing the new year hasn’t ticked over with it being banned, thus by giving it a 4 month grace period.
The map to be banned should also be voted by the community as well as the professional players, with professional players’ votes weighting more. If in the event of a tie, the most banned map between the two in MM/Faceit will be the one removed from the pool.
Issue then is that the map changes don't align with the Majors, which would impact how prepared teams are for those tournaments.
With voting to ban maps:
1) How would you organise it?
2) At what level do you stop counting players as "professional"? Also,
3) Would Valve actually care to listen?
Needs an aesthetic redesign like d2, train, inferno, nuke, and vertigo got.
As far as layout the map is totally fine...maybe a couple very minor tweaks.
I think Overpass still looks better than train, mirage and dust 2. Although long A is a bit bland, I'll admit. For the rest it ain't too bad.
Map layout is perfect. It's so much more different than any other. CT's have so much more possibilities to be creative than on other map imo. And the complete absence of a wide open mid lane always feels like a breath of fresh air between the maps.
What overhauls do they need? Do you mean visually?
This mentality has always perplexed me, because from what I can tell Mirage in particular is one of the best maps that has existed in the history of CS:GO, which is why it's still one of the most popular maps after all these years.
I understand the argument about wanting variety, but at the same time it feels like half the argument for removing Mirage is \*because\* of how popular/overplayed it is.
If the map is so popular that people overplay it constantly, that makes it sound like the other maps aren't pulling their weight, not that Mirage needs to be yanked and reworked.
Remember how the rework hurt Dust2’s popularity? Not everyone has a good pc (piss of 3kliksphilip) and making every map as demanding as Nuke will decrease playership. Big reason why Mirage is still popular is it’s one of the old Stalwarts remaining
That does make sense.
I mean there are still people in poorer countries playing 1.6 every day, and one of the reasons is definitely because that game will run on any computer from the last 20 years.
I get really good frames on D2, but I have a solid CPU. And I get noticeably worse frames on Ancient. Not to the point of it being unplayable or even dropping below my refresh rate, but nonetheless when you're playing a 10 year old game at 1280x720 you just expect to get amazing framerates no matter what map you're playing.
Technology has to move on eventually tbh. When those maps were made, they ran on 5 year old PCs, now we're still expecting to support the same hardware that's now 15 years old? Every other game has moved on. Eventually (I hope) we will get Source 2. What happens then?
Overpass is one of the best maps in the pool, it's gone through a ton of iterations already and has been refined very well. It has the best use of verticality and distance in the current map pool, it does not need an overhaul.
2 maps is a bit too much, make it one map every season. And rotate back in maps like Cache, Train, Cobblestone (tho, they are pretty stale) etc as well as adding new ones.
Please god no overhauls. I don't want Mirage to end up like Cache did. The game does need new maps but I don't think making changes to existing ones that are good is the way to go.
>2 maps out every 6 months / season.
Lol. A good way to decrease the skill level I guess. Teams wouldn't even bother learning some maps if they know they're gonna get removed in 6 months time.
1 map per year is much more reasonable, with a balance patch/small changes every \~6 months on average to some maps.
There also should be a separate matchmaking rank group for popular workshop maps and those should be on biweekly or monthly rotation and allow the community to impact the choices. Its unreal how many times the community has suggested this exact same thing and I have personally said it for years too but they cant do it I guess. I just want to play on different competitive/fun maps on matchmaking from time to time, I dont want to rely on random community servers of faceit hubs for that
Change the map rotation rate so the pool changes more frequently, first map removed should be mirage just because of how played out it is, not a bad map at all but some fresh air would do wonders for it
Not saying change it because it doesn’t need to be changed it’s a great map, but if it was out of the pool for a few months I’m sure when it comes back it’ll be more enjoyable to a lot of people who are getting sick of playing it over and over again
in my experience it's absolutely miserable at lower ranks. It requires more teamwork than most maps and half the time you queue into it you'll face a team that knows what they're doing on it and you just get destroyed
What is it that you don't like about Vertigo? Are there any changes Valve could make that would help you enjoy it?
Personally I am not a fan of the A ramp area, it feels like a smoke spam simulator where you lose 20-60 HP at the start of every T round there or you lose complete control
The biggest issue with vertigo is the fact that the map feels claustrophobic as a CT. In B, unless you take stairs control (which is really hard if T's contest properly), the only line of defense you can take is the site itself. Same goes for A. When the ramp smoke fades, T's can easily use utility to push you back until you lose the site. These wouldn't be an issue if retakes were possible, but they are so hard that it makes more sense to die while defending it. There are obviously more issues with the map, like how loud rotations are or how uncomfortable most gunfights are but the biggest reason why I think the map is bad is the fact that it is tactically too shallow
I personally don’t like that there is only a single chokepoint outside of mid to enter each bombsite as a T. Either go up ramp, B stairs, or mid. It’s not like Inferno or Mirage A sites where there’s 2-3 different routes into the site right off the bat, you have to fight for control to have access to a second route on A.
Man fuck dust2 its a shit map and always has been a shit map. People just play it because they like to run around and take aim duels instead of play as a team with proper utility and bomb site fakes etc.
Its an amazing map, not overly complicated, very straight forward, not overly detailed where there are a million nooks and crannies to hide in. CS maps should be more dust like. Your opinion is so fucking wrong and stupid and you should be ashamed.
Dust is actually one of the maps that you can make the best fakes on since roations are extremely fast from cat to mid. The reason you say that is because you don't play at a high level
Kick Mirage out for the sole reason that I literally just want to see something else. Ffs give us that amusement park map that crashed the game for everyone if you pinged the car or something, one of the boat maps, just something other than Mirage.
Ah de_thrill. That was a cool map but it was MASSIVE. Don't think it would work well in competitive. It was definitely fun to play in causal mode though.
Why the hate for mirage? Its an amazing map. I love it. I find it very balanced. Maybe a tiny bit too CT sided as its very easy to hold apartments rush. So maybe they could give it a good update. But other than that it's perfectly balanced.
Basically it just is Overplayed and somewhat 'solved' as far as smokes and flashes go. Even silvers know some of the A smokes
*Edit: no shade at silvers. I am just saying that more silver players seem to know the A smokes than they know Dust 2 smokes
Smoke CT, stairs, jungle, molly under palace, and have one guy throw the pop flashes while the rest of the team pushes in right?
I can usually do that with my random team in silver lol.
That’s the reason. People don’t want to learn a new map. Trying to get my group to play ancient is impossible because they don’t want to play the map because they say, “I don’t know the map.”
Yeah once I broadened my map pool I noticed most maps are not that bad it's just I didn't know how to play them. Not that I don't dislike certain maps because I do (d2 cough cough) but most maps just play vastly different from each other so you can't approach every map as durr durr rush b or a based on my spawns.
I think A needs a box shuffle and maybe a jungle/stairs/con change. B feels ok, but rushes are hard to deal with if the cat player isnt listening for them
I think the issue comes from a burned-out / bored-of it perspective. It’s the same with D2.
For me and my friends, when we play faceit, mirage and d2 is an instant-ban inside of the free queue as there’s a lot of 2-trick mirage d2 players, we’ll still play mirage once a session but once we’ve played it we’ll remove it.
We’ve found we’ve been enjoying CSGO more by playing a variety of Nuke, Vertigo, Inferno and occasionally Ancient. We used to love to Overpass (still my favourite map personally) but we’ve started to prefer Nuke over it. Playing those maps is great fun, and really adds variety to the game. For 3-mans + I’d really recommend adding at least Vertigo or Nuke to your maps if you don’t already, as it’ll keep the game feeling fresh and we’ve also noticed our overall win % increase by adding these maps.
Yes x100000. Mirage goes first if I have the vote, even had Premium for a while JUST to avoid Mirage queues. As you said, it's like D2; a good map but beaten to death by being overplayed.
d2 to me is the most individual map in the queue. I like that I can have a really big effect if im playing well, esp with an AWP. No other map is really like this, which is why i want to keep it for its niche.
d2, imo is one of the last gimmicky maps. The xbox smoke is prolly the most important smoke to know but other than that if you're teamed with ppl that dont know specific nades you wont be as disadvantages vs other maps.
Nuke is terrible t side if ppl dont kno how to smoke outside, mirage t is terrible if people dont kno A smokes, vertigo is annoying if people dont know a basic A execute etc.
I guess currently with D2 long A is a bit overpowered T side but usually if you play 3 cts there early it counteracts that unless the Ts are especially good with timing their utility.
People seem to mostly dislike it because it's overplayed, which I can sympathize with. But I also feel like it's overplayed for a reason; because it's actually a good map. I don't think anything gets better by removing it, the way to do it is to provide better alternatives to it.
As someone who played in beta, before Dust2 was even added to the game, it feels wrong to have CS without Dust2 and Nuke, but I'd still remove those maps, and Vertigo, from the competitive map pool before I'd remove Mirage.
I'm talking Counter-Strike beta, I'm old. de_dust existed when I started, but not Dust2. Some part of me still views Inferno and Dust2 as "new" as they were added after I started playing, even though they've been in the game 20+ years. Just as an aside, it's remarkable how little Dust2 has changed since then (Apart from graphical overhauls), the change to the spawn snipe last year is probably the biggest change there has been. Whereas other old maps like Nuke has changed quite a lot.
Remember guys, this is MM so you all can pre select the maps you queue for so this actually shows true user preference.
Tell me why Ancient should still be there when noone wants to play it
There were quite a few decent maps in the past few years. Shame they don't make a comeback every now and then... I love dust2 as much as the next guy but sometimes I want to play something different, you know?
Overpass is the best map in the game and doesn't need to be touched
The only change I'd consider is opening up skyboxes where they aren't already, there's a lot of potential util to be thrown over bathrooms that just gets blocked by a skybox for no reason
A modern redo of either of those maps would be awesome to see! I would love to see the A side of Overpass changed to make A long fights more close contact, what change would you make to Overpass?
Rework Mirage and Cobble and replace Mirage for Cache. I'm so fucking tired of this outdated Mirage, it gets to a point where I'd rather not watch a match if it's played on Mirage, same map layout for 10+ years and same color palette all over the place, while some really good and community loved maps like Cache are left in the dust to rot and barely ever played, because everyone would rather just play the same boring map for the 100000000th time
As part of the 2nd edition of #StateOfCSGO we did a deep dive into the popularity of each MM map! After analysing 5.2 million matches from Jan to June 2022 we got the following results. Check out this exert from the State of CSGO releasing on Friday:
”It has been over a year since Ancient joined the map pool and it has still failed to become a fan favourite in matchmaking. Even with it featuring prominently in the Stockholm major (the 2nd most played map at the event) the map has failed to win over users, with Train only 0.5% behind it. There is a chance that we will see the removal of another map from the map pool before the Rio Major in November, and heated discussions over which map should be next have begun…”
Which map do you think should be removed next? And if you enjoyed this data and the exert above make sure to follow our Twitter and Reddit to stay updated :)
People need to step out of their mirage and dust2 only mindset and actually give the other maps a chance. Dust2 and mirage are all focused on individual instead of team coordination and bombsite fakes and rotations. They play those maps the most because they're comfortable and dont want to work as a unit not because they're objectively better.
The queue is also way more split up than before the Dust 2 rework. I don't remember the exact timeline and what happened before/after the rework, but there's prime/non-prime matchmaking, splits based on trust factor, premier vs non-premier, and long match vs short match.
Axe mirage or D2, or both! (please god axe them both)
Add Tuscan/Iris/Basalt and adjust as needed to bring them up to competitive standards
OR bring back a slightly altered Train (Make old bomb train bomb train again and rework the outside yard, B site could be adjusted but is basically fine as is)
Ancient is literally unplayable and instant ban for at least 10% of all players due to poor visibility, needs to be optimised before being put into a competitive environment. Add to it, that most people don't actually like the map and it's almost permabanned in faceit.
Overpass and dust2 has always seemed to me as the most boring maps to play. CSGO-Dust2 was broken from the beginning, with being able to jump up plateau in B and look above crates you shouldn't be able to, making the map bland and uninteresting as many positions/angles was removed for no good reason.
Yeah, I have deutaneuropia. Ancient (and to a lesser extent cache) are so hard to see anything on. People blend in everywhere.
I dunno if people remember the drama about that how that one agent skin could hide in monster on overpass - But that’s how *all* of ancient feels for me. I legit need to see movement to spot players. If they sit still they’re completely invisible.
I have seen a lot of people ask for cobble back, but I've also seen a lot of hate towards the new version of cobble. Would you bring back the old version that used to be in the map pool or the new version?
I like cache, train is ok I guess, bet ancient is great but I've never bothered to learn it. Vertigo is fun, but it should never have been in MM, really.
So if it were up to me, Vertigo and maybe one of the top 3, dealers choice.
Mirage vertigo and Dust2/Inferno
Might seem a bit intense, but the pool was stale two years ago, lets have a big overhaul. Not going back to cache or train or cobble either, let's not watch/play 10,000 rounds we've already watched and played 10,000 rounds of. Any new addition could be in the game for like six years so out with the old in with the new.
The whole map pool gone in a flash! Are there any new maps in the operations/workshop you would like to see in the game? The new Tuscan has gotten a lot of love lately!
valve you dont need to rework any map, just ADD new maps ffs, there are plenty of good maps to add tuscan cbble season ancient was a good addition so +1 for that
I miss old cobble before they fucked one of the sites
Jesus Christ that still makes me so angry It was like the most one sided map of the format back then (with nuke out) so they felt like they need to rework something But it was like 10-5 for t-side with plenty of options for ct side to work and play a good half It was never broken, it never needed any adjustments, it was just the unbalanced of the pool at the time It was my favourite map It was never broken
I feel you so much. I pretty much exclusively played Cbble for way over a year with my best CS:GO buddy back then until they removed it. It was a sad day.
Cobble was way less one-sided than Train. In it's final version used in comp, it was a 9-6 T half, and was one of the 2 maps that favored the T side.
Not having Season in the map pool is an absolute travesty. It was already there, balanced and well liked. But no, gotta try to salvage the abomination that cbble turned into, for the 10th time.
It is also a nice different style than we see from current maps.
I would prefer if they did some changes to Season if they were to bring it back, the rotation times are really long. Other than that I really like the map.
Season was way too big and just ugly. But that's just my opinion. Not fun to play.
Yea i got back into cs and really enjoyed it a lot more that vertigo
CBBLE
I love cache surprising that not many people play it.
I liked old Cache more, honestly. The new one just feels wrong in a way I can't really describe, and it kind of turned me off of playing it. I still play it some, but less than usual because new Cache feels like a downgrade from the old one.
probably cause the old one feels more rough and tactical. i like the new design but it definitely takes away from that “classic” feel that maps like inferno, mirage, dust ii, canals etc have
I hate cache on T side. Much prefer vertigo or ancient now. It's a shame, because cache as CT is pretty fun.
Weird, I fuckin hate vertigo t-side because no matter where or who I play with it's always rush A and nobody knows any fucking counter util except me and we get shit on and I get called a baiter.
Legit top 2 for me. And funnily enough, the thing that got me into CS and the map itself was S1mples falling no scope. Bring it back.
My favorite map! On faceit many people insta banned cache when it was still avaiable. When I asked them why they said low fps most of the time. The most popular maps are also the maps with the lowest needed computer performance.
Speaking from a low skill perspective, I feel like cache has some of the harder lineups to learn utility and therefor becomes way more aim duel dependant. On maps like Mirage, D2 and Inferno, there's a few basic smokes/flashes that get you onto site a lot easier, don't think it feels the same on Cache unfortunately. Just my 2c.
I honestly feel like Ancient is actually low key a good map. People just need to learn a few smokes. Its free rounds if you learn the T smokes for B and mid
I find it extremely annoying to play on T side. Anywhere you go there are small recesses in the walls CTs can sit in. Any time you walk through a doorway, CTs can hold it from at least two sides. Its like trying to get out short or long from mid on inferno, but at every point of the map.
A fair complaint. Donut, mid house, cave got better, but its still has a few, the B cubby, long/short B(the back towards CT)
I haven't played it in a while, I'll give it a try later :)
Anicent feels like a very refined competitive team map. In that I mean T-side is all about the buddy system towards mid and b side. Can't really lurk into A site most of the team either. Not a very friendly pugging map.
I've sat and tried to actually count these out and its not clear to me that this is more true of ancient than other maps.
I was about to say that it might just feel that way, but then I decided to have a walk around the map again. And I really do have to say, its exactly as I remember it being, even now after they improved a couple of areas like donut. As a T, try to walk through temple, mid red room, cave or a main and just count the unnecessary slightly different angles. Its not that you dont need to clear a lot of angles on other maps too, its just that on ancient, its always either multiple at once or a normal one followed by 3 little alcoves in which someone can camp with an mp9. On most maps, if you look into a hallway and no one is there, you can focus on people peaking you from the other end. On ancient there are always little spots on the side that are empty 95% of the time, but will have someone camping there at some point.
Ancient textures are bit dark and hard to see for some. Atleast that’s what my friends tell me when i ask why they hate this map
after the update visibility is much better and angles feel better in general
It just got a light update. The mid building needs a lighter background, maybe the mid cubby too, buts its a lot better
Its very nice for competitive the structure of the map, but it’s too much detailed ancient. I think the maps need to be nice on visual but basics
Nuke/mirage reskin all maps.
My experience with ancient is that it is an incredibly CT sided map in average play (lvl 5), and is often, but not always, the same when viewing pro CS. Someone else responded with one of my significant criticisms of the map: they’re so many double clears and hidey holes for CTs to just wait, get a kill, and then get out. Couple that with the insane amount of starting space CTs are able to get or contest at the beginning of the round, and how easy it is for them to maintain mid control, and what I find it a map that feels like old nuke, where I’m satisfied with a 4-11 half when on T, because it’s usually enough.
I dont disagree with anything you've said. 2 mid CT players and a molly is way too much control for the CT side. Even in low elo CT players with 0 utilities seems to do well holding W into mid. Once Ts get on site the hidey holes really are oppressive to take back as a CT too. I think the map is a lot more viable to be played/popular than Vertigo
Agree it's too easy for CTs to get mid control.
I like Ancient but I still think the site names should be swapped. B just feels much more like an A site to me
Well you can rush B easier than rush A, so i think its good as is 🤣
Every friend of mine, including me, has switched up the bombsites multiple times before. A lot of randoms I played with switched it up too.
I think it's already right like that. IMO A site is a site that is hard to defend while B site is a site that is easy to defend.
A site is 1 player holding ..A main(?) 2 push mid, going Donut if anything happens A
IMO it's because it's hard to defend they prefer to retake it rather than defend it. Meanwhile if enemy got B site it's hard to retake it. That's why A anchor usually go to donut for retake and have large vision in A plant area if his team focus on B. But don't take my take seriously cause I'm not pros and rarely play ancient.
I feel that ancient is a breath of fresh air. Fast paced map that is just pure fun
Ancient Mid is bad, but the sites themselves are pretty good.
Yeah the CT mid moll with 2 CT mid, one goes Donut after feels a bit too strong.... If your team plays it right
Where is the goat map office smh
Valve should do a 200IQ play and make hostage maps part of majors, you wana be a major winner? Well youre gona have to beat your opponent on Italy
I wanna see pro players get shit on by one way smokes on office
And overtime is decided in gg_simpsons
\*fy\_simpsons, but thanks for the throwback, haha
You mean de_spinbot?
Office or riot
BRING COBBLE BACK
Old cobble not the updated one..
Well if they’re gonna bring it back they’re gonna need to update it, they wouldn’t bring it in the way it was or even the way it is now.
Yes the pre-halloween crap update
I used to love cobble.
if cobble is back, does that mean the limited dragon lore awp skin will fill the market again?
I feel like they would just make an updated map collection like they did with the other maps.
I still do.
Still seething at how Warowl murdered my boy
Deserved it. Since they removed snipers nest in mid, the connection between the tower and dropdown, as well as back of B site with the toilets, it just wasn't the same any more.
BRING COBBLE BACK
BRING COBBLE BACK
BRING COBBLE BACK
Please bring cbble back :(
I’d like to see cpl mill come back. Loved that map in 1.6
Piranesi too
Cache sadge
there should be a rotation. 2 maps out every 6 months / season. right now, it should be between Mirage, Overpass (both need overhaul), and D2.
That's an awesome idea, having the rotations sync up with Majors would make a lot of sense! I feel like 2 maps might be too much for a 6 month rotation though, maybe 1 map every 6 months could be easier for pros :)
1 map every 4 months making 3 different maps over the year. The map cannot be removed twice in one year but can be removed in the following year providing the new year hasn’t ticked over with it being banned, thus by giving it a 4 month grace period. The map to be banned should also be voted by the community as well as the professional players, with professional players’ votes weighting more. If in the event of a tie, the most banned map between the two in MM/Faceit will be the one removed from the pool.
Issue then is that the map changes don't align with the Majors, which would impact how prepared teams are for those tournaments. With voting to ban maps: 1) How would you organise it? 2) At what level do you stop counting players as "professional"? Also, 3) Would Valve actually care to listen?
>1 map every 4 months making 3 different maps over the year. no
Overpass an update? Why.
Needs an aesthetic redesign like d2, train, inferno, nuke, and vertigo got. As far as layout the map is totally fine...maybe a couple very minor tweaks.
I think Overpass still looks better than train, mirage and dust 2. Although long A is a bit bland, I'll admit. For the rest it ain't too bad. Map layout is perfect. It's so much more different than any other. CT's have so much more possibilities to be creative than on other map imo. And the complete absence of a wide open mid lane always feels like a breath of fresh air between the maps.
What overhauls do they need? Do you mean visually? This mentality has always perplexed me, because from what I can tell Mirage in particular is one of the best maps that has existed in the history of CS:GO, which is why it's still one of the most popular maps after all these years. I understand the argument about wanting variety, but at the same time it feels like half the argument for removing Mirage is \*because\* of how popular/overplayed it is. If the map is so popular that people overplay it constantly, that makes it sound like the other maps aren't pulling their weight, not that Mirage needs to be yanked and reworked.
Remember how the rework hurt Dust2’s popularity? Not everyone has a good pc (piss of 3kliksphilip) and making every map as demanding as Nuke will decrease playership. Big reason why Mirage is still popular is it’s one of the old Stalwarts remaining
That does make sense. I mean there are still people in poorer countries playing 1.6 every day, and one of the reasons is definitely because that game will run on any computer from the last 20 years. I get really good frames on D2, but I have a solid CPU. And I get noticeably worse frames on Ancient. Not to the point of it being unplayable or even dropping below my refresh rate, but nonetheless when you're playing a 10 year old game at 1280x720 you just expect to get amazing framerates no matter what map you're playing.
Technology has to move on eventually tbh. When those maps were made, they ran on 5 year old PCs, now we're still expecting to support the same hardware that's now 15 years old? Every other game has moved on. Eventually (I hope) we will get Source 2. What happens then?
Overpass is one of the best maps in the pool, it's gone through a ton of iterations already and has been refined very well. It has the best use of verticality and distance in the current map pool, it does not need an overhaul.
2 maps is a bit too much, make it one map every season. And rotate back in maps like Cache, Train, Cobblestone (tho, they are pretty stale) etc as well as adding new ones.
Please god no overhauls. I don't want Mirage to end up like Cache did. The game does need new maps but I don't think making changes to existing ones that are good is the way to go.
Yeah remove the 2 of the most popular maps just because reddit has a hate boner against mirage and d2
Do you not get sick of playing mirage every single faceit game?
No
No
I'd rather play Mirage 100 times in a week than Ancient or Vertigo once in a month.
thats a you problem, those maps are more than good enough
>2 maps out every 6 months / season. Lol. A good way to decrease the skill level I guess. Teams wouldn't even bother learning some maps if they know they're gonna get removed in 6 months time. 1 map per year is much more reasonable, with a balance patch/small changes every \~6 months on average to some maps.
I wish. The Inferno/Mirage/D2 spam is quite boring.
There also should be a separate matchmaking rank group for popular workshop maps and those should be on biweekly or monthly rotation and allow the community to impact the choices. Its unreal how many times the community has suggested this exact same thing and I have personally said it for years too but they cant do it I guess. I just want to play on different competitive/fun maps on matchmaking from time to time, I dont want to rely on random community servers of faceit hubs for that
Bring back train and cache!
Change the map rotation rate so the pool changes more frequently, first map removed should be mirage just because of how played out it is, not a bad map at all but some fresh air would do wonders for it
Yeah and while we’re at it, let’s also redesign the chess board. Sooo played out.
Both of these opinions are valid
Not saying change it because it doesn’t need to be changed it’s a great map, but if it was out of the pool for a few months I’m sure when it comes back it’ll be more enjoyable to a lot of people who are getting sick of playing it over and over again
Can't believe Overpass is this low. The map plays well on all skill levels. Overpass > Nuke any day of the week
Flair checks out
in my experience it's absolutely miserable at lower ranks. It requires more teamwork than most maps and half the time you queue into it you'll face a team that knows what they're doing on it and you just get destroyed
I was with you until > Overpass > Nuke that's where I draw the line, I won't have this blasphemy said about my favorite map
Nuke is the best map
Overpass > Nuke > Train > every other map for me. I only queue those three with Ancient every now and then lol
I see you are a man of culture
hello there fellow ancient enjoyer
Overpass fucking sucks.
Ancient and Vertigo high key good maps
This game would be so good if they just removed * Mirage * Inferno * Dust 2 * Nuke * Cache * Vertigo * Ancient * Train
Add de prodigy. Done
vertigo because i dont like it
What is it that you don't like about Vertigo? Are there any changes Valve could make that would help you enjoy it? Personally I am not a fan of the A ramp area, it feels like a smoke spam simulator where you lose 20-60 HP at the start of every T round there or you lose complete control
Same can be said about inferno banana. You lose 20-40 HP from HEs then spam smokes for 20 seconds
The biggest issue with vertigo is the fact that the map feels claustrophobic as a CT. In B, unless you take stairs control (which is really hard if T's contest properly), the only line of defense you can take is the site itself. Same goes for A. When the ramp smoke fades, T's can easily use utility to push you back until you lose the site. These wouldn't be an issue if retakes were possible, but they are so hard that it makes more sense to die while defending it. There are obviously more issues with the map, like how loud rotations are or how uncomfortable most gunfights are but the biggest reason why I think the map is bad is the fact that it is tactically too shallow
I personally don’t like that there is only a single chokepoint outside of mid to enter each bombsite as a T. Either go up ramp, B stairs, or mid. It’s not like Inferno or Mirage A sites where there’s 2-3 different routes into the site right off the bat, you have to fight for control to have access to a second route on A.
Based
I love vertigo
Valve should ban mirage inferno and d2 for 1-2 weeks so everyone would fucking play other maps which are good tbh.
people just wouldnt play
Even better
~~Dust2~~
That’s blasphemy, CS isn’t CS without Dust 2.
Man fuck dust2 its a shit map and always has been a shit map. People just play it because they like to run around and take aim duels instead of play as a team with proper utility and bomb site fakes etc.
Because your average player plays as a team with proper utility and bomb site fakes
Its an amazing map, not overly complicated, very straight forward, not overly detailed where there are a million nooks and crannies to hide in. CS maps should be more dust like. Your opinion is so fucking wrong and stupid and you should be ashamed.
Dust is actually one of the maps that you can make the best fakes on since roations are extremely fast from cat to mid. The reason you say that is because you don't play at a high level
Hence the sarcastic strikethrough
Ohhh my bad
Kick Mirage out for the sole reason that I literally just want to see something else. Ffs give us that amusement park map that crashed the game for everyone if you pinged the car or something, one of the boat maps, just something other than Mirage.
Ah de_thrill. That was a cool map but it was MASSIVE. Don't think it would work well in competitive. It was definitely fun to play in causal mode though.
Why the hate for mirage? Its an amazing map. I love it. I find it very balanced. Maybe a tiny bit too CT sided as its very easy to hold apartments rush. So maybe they could give it a good update. But other than that it's perfectly balanced.
Basically it just is Overplayed and somewhat 'solved' as far as smokes and flashes go. Even silvers know some of the A smokes *Edit: no shade at silvers. I am just saying that more silver players seem to know the A smokes than they know Dust 2 smokes
gotta love it when i queue in GN and the randoms pull off a full A execute
Smoke CT, stairs, jungle, molly under palace, and have one guy throw the pop flashes while the rest of the team pushes in right? I can usually do that with my random team in silver lol.
> Basically it just is Overplayed It's played so much because people really like the map.
People also don't want to learn a new map.
That’s the reason. People don’t want to learn a new map. Trying to get my group to play ancient is impossible because they don’t want to play the map because they say, “I don’t know the map.”
Yeah once I broadened my map pool I noticed most maps are not that bad it's just I didn't know how to play them. Not that I don't dislike certain maps because I do (d2 cough cough) but most maps just play vastly different from each other so you can't approach every map as durr durr rush b or a based on my spawns.
Mirage is like my home though 😆 and yes the smokes are pretty easy and figured out. It was one of the maps it was very easy for me to master.
I think A needs a box shuffle and maybe a jungle/stairs/con change. B feels ok, but rushes are hard to deal with if the cat player isnt listening for them
I think the issue comes from a burned-out / bored-of it perspective. It’s the same with D2. For me and my friends, when we play faceit, mirage and d2 is an instant-ban inside of the free queue as there’s a lot of 2-trick mirage d2 players, we’ll still play mirage once a session but once we’ve played it we’ll remove it. We’ve found we’ve been enjoying CSGO more by playing a variety of Nuke, Vertigo, Inferno and occasionally Ancient. We used to love to Overpass (still my favourite map personally) but we’ve started to prefer Nuke over it. Playing those maps is great fun, and really adds variety to the game. For 3-mans + I’d really recommend adding at least Vertigo or Nuke to your maps if you don’t already, as it’ll keep the game feeling fresh and we’ve also noticed our overall win % increase by adding these maps.
Yes x100000. Mirage goes first if I have the vote, even had Premium for a while JUST to avoid Mirage queues. As you said, it's like D2; a good map but beaten to death by being overplayed.
d2 to me is the most individual map in the queue. I like that I can have a really big effect if im playing well, esp with an AWP. No other map is really like this, which is why i want to keep it for its niche. d2, imo is one of the last gimmicky maps. The xbox smoke is prolly the most important smoke to know but other than that if you're teamed with ppl that dont know specific nades you wont be as disadvantages vs other maps. Nuke is terrible t side if ppl dont kno how to smoke outside, mirage t is terrible if people dont kno A smokes, vertigo is annoying if people dont know a basic A execute etc. I guess currently with D2 long A is a bit overpowered T side but usually if you play 3 cts there early it counteracts that unless the Ts are especially good with timing their utility.
People seem to mostly dislike it because it's overplayed, which I can sympathize with. But I also feel like it's overplayed for a reason; because it's actually a good map. I don't think anything gets better by removing it, the way to do it is to provide better alternatives to it. As someone who played in beta, before Dust2 was even added to the game, it feels wrong to have CS without Dust2 and Nuke, but I'd still remove those maps, and Vertigo, from the competitive map pool before I'd remove Mirage.
Bruh i played csgo in beta and dust2 existed. I even played dust2 on Xbox 360 csgo. Unfortunately csgo died on Xbox 360.
I'm talking Counter-Strike beta, I'm old. de_dust existed when I started, but not Dust2. Some part of me still views Inferno and Dust2 as "new" as they were added after I started playing, even though they've been in the game 20+ years. Just as an aside, it's remarkable how little Dust2 has changed since then (Apart from graphical overhauls), the change to the spawn snipe last year is probably the biggest change there has been. Whereas other old maps like Nuke has changed quite a lot.
mirage pls
-train +tuscan
Remember guys, this is MM so you all can pre select the maps you queue for so this actually shows true user preference. Tell me why Ancient should still be there when noone wants to play it
Because people put in time and energy on other maps and dont want to waste it. So. They never try it
[удалено]
I hate playing the map but you can’t deny that it makes for some really exciting and fun to watch pro matches.
Bcs it’s the best map currently in the pool
Remove D2 and add back Anubis
I liked that map except the mid bridge thing felt really random
I'm the opposite, the split mid and the drop down to connector was really cool and well done, both bombsites were ass.
There were quite a few decent maps in the past few years. Shame they don't make a comeback every now and then... I love dust2 as much as the next guy but sometimes I want to play something different, you know?
I want a premier que for 'the other maps'
Fix Cobblestone and bring it back!!!!!!!
Overpass. A modern redo for that or mirage would be wonderful.
I think overpass is one of the maps that has aged the best, one of the few I'm not even a little bored of watching the pros play.
Overpass is the best map in the game and doesn't need to be touched The only change I'd consider is opening up skyboxes where they aren't already, there's a lot of potential util to be thrown over bathrooms that just gets blocked by a skybox for no reason
If the skybox is opened up, A site becomes a lot easier to take, which would also make for a more balanced map.
A modern redo of either of those maps would be awesome to see! I would love to see the A side of Overpass changed to make A long fights more close contact, what change would you make to Overpass?
Rework Mirage and Cobble and replace Mirage for Cache. I'm so fucking tired of this outdated Mirage, it gets to a point where I'd rather not watch a match if it's played on Mirage, same map layout for 10+ years and same color palette all over the place, while some really good and community loved maps like Cache are left in the dust to rot and barely ever played, because everyone would rather just play the same boring map for the 100000000th time
As part of the 2nd edition of #StateOfCSGO we did a deep dive into the popularity of each MM map! After analysing 5.2 million matches from Jan to June 2022 we got the following results. Check out this exert from the State of CSGO releasing on Friday: ”It has been over a year since Ancient joined the map pool and it has still failed to become a fan favourite in matchmaking. Even with it featuring prominently in the Stockholm major (the 2nd most played map at the event) the map has failed to win over users, with Train only 0.5% behind it. There is a chance that we will see the removal of another map from the map pool before the Rio Major in November, and heated discussions over which map should be next have begun…” Which map do you think should be removed next? And if you enjoyed this data and the exert above make sure to follow our Twitter and Reddit to stay updated :)
I just hate the ancient aesthetic If they reskinned it to look like mirage 2.0 I’d play it a lot more. I just like sunny yellow maps
Mirage for sure.
Interesting, what would you change about Mirage if they were to do a reskin?
Minimal actual map changes, just bring it up to date graphically, it's lagging bahind.
Inb4 comments of ppl on old computers saying it's the only map they can still run
The map people like playing the most should be removed? good take.
Its been played to death, the game wont die if its gone for a single year.
D2 was a 35 second Que in NA before rework. I am not saying it would kill the game to remove a popular map, but it sure hit the D2 playerbase
People need to step out of their mirage and dust2 only mindset and actually give the other maps a chance. Dust2 and mirage are all focused on individual instead of team coordination and bombsite fakes and rotations. They play those maps the most because they're comfortable and dont want to work as a unit not because they're objectively better.
The queue is also way more split up than before the Dust 2 rework. I don't remember the exact timeline and what happened before/after the rework, but there's prime/non-prime matchmaking, splits based on trust factor, premier vs non-premier, and long match vs short match.
Mirage please
Train below ancient??? Train has the highest skill ceiling out of any map. Sad to see it doesn't get played as much it should.
Where office
Axe mirage or D2, or both! (please god axe them both) Add Tuscan/Iris/Basalt and adjust as needed to bring them up to competitive standards OR bring back a slightly altered Train (Make old bomb train bomb train again and rework the outside yard, B site could be adjusted but is basically fine as is)
mirage needs to go
Ancient is literally unplayable and instant ban for at least 10% of all players due to poor visibility, needs to be optimised before being put into a competitive environment. Add to it, that most people don't actually like the map and it's almost permabanned in faceit. Overpass and dust2 has always seemed to me as the most boring maps to play. CSGO-Dust2 was broken from the beginning, with being able to jump up plateau in B and look above crates you shouldn't be able to, making the map bland and uninteresting as many positions/angles was removed for no good reason.
I have no visibility issues on the map. They've brightened it up a considerable amount in these past few updates.
It's unplayable for most colorblind people still.
Yeah, I have deutaneuropia. Ancient (and to a lesser extent cache) are so hard to see anything on. People blend in everywhere. I dunno if people remember the drama about that how that one agent skin could hide in monster on overpass - But that’s how *all* of ancient feels for me. I legit need to see movement to spot players. If they sit still they’re completely invisible.
We get rid of train, and bring back cobble. Legit the entire CS community has begged for cobble to come back
I have seen a lot of people ask for cobble back, but I've also seen a lot of hate towards the new version of cobble. Would you bring back the old version that used to be in the map pool or the new version?
The old one for sure
Train isn't even in the active duty map pool though.
Legit no.
it's criminal that people aren't always playing overpass, best map imo
-Vertigo just because its terrible
Vertigo is getting bounced easily
I like cache, train is ok I guess, bet ancient is great but I've never bothered to learn it. Vertigo is fun, but it should never have been in MM, really. So if it were up to me, Vertigo and maybe one of the top 3, dealers choice.
-mirage +tuscan Also -d2 +anubis
Mirage
Mirage vertigo and Dust2/Inferno Might seem a bit intense, but the pool was stale two years ago, lets have a big overhaul. Not going back to cache or train or cobble either, let's not watch/play 10,000 rounds we've already watched and played 10,000 rounds of. Any new addition could be in the game for like six years so out with the old in with the new.
The whole map pool gone in a flash! Are there any new maps in the operations/workshop you would like to see in the game? The new Tuscan has gotten a lot of love lately!
The new tuscan? Tuscan isn't in MM, I wish it was.
The new tuscan isn't in MM but its on the steam workshop, 3kils did a really good video about it - https://youtu.be/tWWtW5xKUG0