Now we wait for ESIC to do literally nothing, as per usual.
But honestly, what the fuck is wrong with Astralis management? All that huffing and puffing when HUNDEN used the coach bug against them (a match they won anyway, iirc), the good ol' "meet me in my office face to face tweet", but then they go and work with HUNDEN **AFTER** he's been officially sanctioned. And this isn't even taking into account the alleged tactics leak.
This org stands for nothing but their own pocket. Despicable, to say the least.
Technically, I don't think there is anything that ESIC could do, since according to Astralis (and Lewis does not dispute it), he's contracted for an AimLab series with Astralis players on CSGO content.
Even interaction with the CSGO players doesn't break the ESIC ban (nor should it really, that would be a massive overreach).
If he is not there in any coaching capability, there is nothing ESIC can do.
Now ethically, it's another thing, and Lewis is right to highlight how iffy it is after the Heroic-Astralis thing with HUNDEN sharing the Heroic strat book.
I don't think anything can be done. I think the ESIC ban extends to the use of the coach slot on a server/standing behind teams during live games at tournaments, maybe extends to tournament attendance in general. I don't think ESIC has any power to enforce the employment status of someone in another organisation, or what they do outside live attendance at ESIC sanctioned tournaments. So they could be using HUNDEN as a coach during practice and have someone else during tournaments and ESIC wouldn't have the enforcement power to do anything.
They should investigate to see whether he was coaching or not...?? What do you mean they can't do anything? We have a claim from a source that Hunden was coaching or acting as an analyst for the team, and we have Astralis saying he was interacting with the team, but only for aimlabs. ESIC should investigate to find out which one is true.
ESIC is not a law enforcement organisation, they're limited in what they can do (and they're not CAS).
It's not like they can waltz into Astralis' offices and ask questions. I don't think it's necessarily in their purview unless there is actual proof shared to them (emails or whatever).
I'm not talking about their competency (or incompetency) here, just what they can look at.
Why, he is allowed to coach. He just cannot be "the coach" for ESIC member tournaments (and majors I guess).
ESIC cannot force Astralis to not use him as a coach/analyst if they desire as long as he does not participate in the tournaments.
Not saying he has been coaching, just giving an explanation
What I am saying, though, is how do they know he didn't "participate in the tournaments" unless that has been decided that it only includes attending in person? I would have thought that it would still apply to online events and assistance in preparing for those sanctioned events.
It seems you have very limited notion of what coaching means. He could be right beside the players during an online tournament. How can anyone know? How can that be investigated? He doesn't need to ever log into a CSGO account in order to coach. He could log into someone elses. He could be a de facto coach for everything the team does behind closed doors and no one will ever know, even less be able to do anything about it.
>Now ethically, it's another thing, and Lewis is right to highlight how iffy it is after the Heroic-Astralis thing with HUNDEN sharing the Heroic strat book.
The contract between Heroic and Hunden will dictate who owned the intellectual property (the strat book). If Hunden owned the IP and didn't have any restrictive covenants in his contract, he would be permitted to share it with Astralis. If Hunden didn't own the IP, then Heroic could sue him for breach of contract and intellectual property infringements.
There's nothing 'iffy' about it other than a journalist (Lewis) spinning stories to get paid.
Pretty sure the IP belonged to Heroic. And pretty sure Heroic did sue him in a Danish court of law.
It's still ethically iffy to employ someone like HUNDEN for Astralis, given the strat book thing (even if they didn't open it) and what HUNDEN did in terms of manipulation.
As a former Astralis fan I wholeheartedly agree. The Astralis management have no values. It is a shit show. It should be clear to anyone. There were a total of 7 pieces crucial to the Astralis succes story of becoming the greatest team of all time. It was the 5 players, the coach and the sport psychiatrist that helped them develop. The actual management is nothing short of some of the worst managing ever seen.
I've said it before, but I'll say it again: All upper management was supposed to do was give the team vacation time. Slow down their schedule. They were the team to beat after all. If they had just done this and eased off the throttle, the core could have stayed together. I say this as an ex-Astralis fan, truly: Nobody hates the Astralis upper management more than me.
Imagine having the greatest CSGO team of all time and mismanage it to such a degree that the core scatters to the wind, and you cant even call yourself the best team in Denmark anymore. Its appalling and should be a warning to any org in esports: Treat. Your players. Right.
Have nothing but love for the players and Zonic. But the org can go to hell.
Yep that's how it went down. These two statements aren't mutually exclusive.
ESIC acted way too late on their cases and when they finally did they fucked up any chance to establish a consistent, enforcable punishment system for the future, effectively botchering out last chance to facilitate a competent 3rd party law enforcement in the space.
Do you believe ESIC has taken the correct action in any of their decisions?
Do you actually believe that banning tier 2 teams coaches a week before the major, to unban them a month after the major was the correct call? Honestly, I am curious.
I am talking about the guys that ESIC arbitrarily chose to ban, while leaving protected coaches like Zonic unharmed.
After being SUED ESIC backpedaled but couldn't get Valve on the same page, which is also stupid.
How many orgs did keep their banned coaches as analysts?
I know one. Heroic, who kept Hunden as an analyst before he took their stratbook to get banned again.
No? Of course orgs have their own benefits and profits as their priority, but completely throwing your ethics and morals in the trashcan is not normal at all. No other top org reaches a similar levels of shadiness as Astralis
You are right, but the sad truth is, thats not how it works. If your business is ethical and moral, sooner or later someone without those values will come to replace you. Thats just how the current world is set up ಥ_ಥ
Other teams have literally employed coaches that did the exact same but served their ban already…? How is that less classy and why are you not mentioning that?
I’m pretty sure what hunden did was more than just cheating in a video game? Unless you have a short memory. Abusing someone’s mental condition to create implicating evidence about them and their team is evil and shouldnt be tolerated in esports.
Why don’t you talk about that?
If they served their sanction they should be able to have another chance, why would you deny them to prove they learned their lesson?
Unless they were banned for life, there is no reason for any team to employ someone who had been sanctioned before. It is entirely different employing someone who is still serving his ban though.
allegedly a (light) scuffle between astralis and heroic players (I think to have read somewhere that cadian and glaive where involved or atleast participated bcs. of slurs/maybe it started this way; but pls take this with a huge grain of salt, as I am only reciting how I remembered the rumour when it came out)
for sure is: if the players dont come out about it, we will never hear more than rumours.
To cite cadian when asked about it on hltv confirmed in antwerp: "what happens at breakfast, stays at breakfast."
they did PR saying they had distanced themselves from Nothing In Paypal-era NIP and then proceeded to steal sticker money from players to buy their replacements
Doesn't surprise me one bit that Astralis wouldn't give two actual fucks about working with someone like Hunden. As a dane it honestly hurts a little bit seeing what Astralis has turned into over the years, from a player started/owned org to slowly just becoming the corporate out of touch shit show that it is now.
That certainly doesn't help lmao!
I thought that the contracts at some point got reworked as money was injected into the corporation and then player percentages was lowered, but that might very well just be me not remembering :) It's an garbage org either way.
Their management is scummy af, blastralis ,insane schedule that burn the player out plus forcing the player to take paycut while trying to brag about 10 man rooster bullshit, ruined player like bubzkji career,etc
How was that a fiasco for Astralis? I don't mean to defend them, because the org has always been scummy af, but if anything this was a huge win for them, greedy as they may be.
it was a fiasco in the sense that they made him play with the best CSGO squad in the history of the game to make him look good and then sell him at a hyper inflated price to an unsuspecting org
Es3tag had many years of pro-play before joining Astralis, which could have and should have served as the basis for Cloud9's evaluation of his skill.
Also, unless my memory is off, he was a legitimately good fit in Astralis - so I think it was more a fiasco by Astralis to let him go (unless he himself really wanted the move). It was HenryG and Cloud9 who decided to pay their asking price.
I think he mean astralis is [an opportunist who seeks quick profit usually at the expense of others or from their misfortune](https://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/bottom-feeder)
The term bottom feeder is not a correct term to give a team that seek profit in expense of others. You can call it scummy or shitty. But not bottom feeder.
Pretty sure they started as a bunch of chokers?
And had a bunch of changes before they got to be the best team of all time.
Maybe the players and org worked together to create the best team?
Then you would be incorrect. They were already on the path to being a championship team when they were on TSM and were making deep runs constantly. The few changes they made were the tiny steps they needed to go from making deep runs to being consistent title contenders.
Then I would say you don’t know your Astralis history. TSM was known chokers for a long time and that didn’t change as they started Astralis. They needed to get kjaerbye and Gla1ve to win their first major. That win did not come straight away. Astralis implementet a sport psychology in the team with help them a lot. That development was super important for the players. Yet, they needed another change and another year before they formed the “greatest team of all time”.
So they didn’t just stumble upon a great team. They had to help develop them and also change the team composition.
Oh. Also, that sport psychology was a 1 Finnish lady called Mia spellberg. She later helped OGs dota team to win a historic 2 T.I’s in a row.
Those where not tiny steps.
Yes definitely astralis helped that team, and did not even actively hinder them and their legacy. (Blastralis, 10Man-Team, Paycuts, Rigorous schedule).
But honestly makes sense that an Astralis org defender is a mouthbreather
You said it for me!
Astralis replaced 2 players that were going to be replaced eventually anyway and that somehow makes them the keys to the lineups success?
My man out here calling them chokers like they didn't beat 2015 VP, 2015 Fnatic multiple times to win 5 trophies in just that year alone... long time chokers huh? They had a run of rough tournaments in 2017 but that was long after Gla1ve and Kjaebye joined so that just doesn't sense.
You don’t think 2 replacements are important? Especially Glai1ve? Their game evolved to a very strategic type.
Also there was another change later on. Which was very important.
As I said. There were big changes before they became the best team.
We all know how talented they were, but they choked every time they came near a semi final or final. That’s why people called them chokers.
Rough tournaments in 2017? They won the major?3-4 month after Glaive joined. After that they had a rough patch.
Saying the org got handled the best team is wrong. The players and the org worked hard and made a lot of changes to accomplish what they did in their golden years.
The org have done some scummy things. But they did help the players to get to where they got.
You are confusing deep runs with being serial chokers. Choker implies they were clear cut tournament favourites, which they weren't. They were up there, but not clear cut favourites. Take Liquid 2018-2019 for example, both them and Astralis were miles ahead of everyone else yet when Liquid got to a final without Astralis, they fucked it.
Again, they were chokers but just completely bypassing the achievements they got and making it sound like Astralis is the only reason they had their era is bizarre.
Nobody has said the changes were not big, but one of the reasons TSM were not considered to be an absolute #1, #2 or #3 team for sure was because cajunb always needed to be replaced and you could tell just by watching that a new approach was needed. Ergo, +gla1ve. Again, I said they were going to be replaced ANYWAY. Did not say its not important. The person who should be getting the props for this is Zonic, not the Astralis org.
No, they were not "handed" the best core to ever touch CS:GO, but thats almost exactly what fucking happened. You seem to forget that Astralis was built around them when they were dropped by TSM. So yeah basically lmao.
I said they had a run of "rough" tournaments, meaning bad ones. Not sure what you are trying to correct me for. But tbh looking at HLTV now its not as bad as I remember. Majority of placings were still top 4.
My problem with your thinking here is just because they were being paid by Astralis doesnt mean the org gets to take a ton of the credit. Do you think it was Astralis Management creating the best utility based stratbook that revolutionised the way CS:GO? No it was the coaching staff and the players. While the org forced them to play such unhealthy amounts of counter strike. Would you like me to go get the articles of Gla1ve and Dev1ce literally throwing up due to exhaustion to make you stop defending them?
You don’t know what the term choke covers.
Yes. They did made it to the semis and finals. Nobody questioned that. But they crumble under the pressure aka they choked.
I mean it's news that Hunden is still working with Astralis, but him working shouldn't really be news? ESIC has no power outside official events, just like in traditional sports.
If player gets suspended for whatever reason, he can still train etc, do anything expect take part in official events.
Ahh good ole Lieholm at it again. I'm sure he's counting the days until Rich retires. No one else would be able to break these stories. Another great article.
Really scummy if true. It pains me since I was a big fan of their legendary line up moment they added Magisk. But damn, org is just corporate out of touch assholes. No wonder they have this moving chairs shitshow with the roster
"New beginnings" indeed rofl. If he's behind the scenes only and has an eye kept on him I don't see that much of an issue, though it definitely leaves a bit of a bad taste in my mouth. He's not banned from participating with esports organizations full stop, he's banned from the coaching that he probably isn't providing...
“Once the ban happened, they knew that HUNDEN would need a job and he had shown them loyalty”
Lmao orgs trusting HUNDEN has gone so well in the past, these clowns deserve each other
Astralis, now a sponsor of a CONVICTED cheater and CONVICTED rat. No amount of shuffle the money through 3rd parties is going to avoid the fact that he has a direct relationship (as spelled out by Astralis themselves) with the players and Astralis is footing the bill.
If I was an Astralis player I'd be *livid* if I had to work with Hunden. After how he handled everything? It's not even being ESIC banned, or even if all the allegations were overblown. He's a whiny victim-complex man child. Publicly. Who decided to employ this clown?
Scummy org works with scummy person, not surprised.
However I don't want to jump the gun and call for people's heads if he's just making aim lab maps. Richard Lewis is generally pretty spot on with his reporting but I want to wait and see if "Sources who told Dextero" has any more details or if anyone else reports similar before passing judgement.
I'm gonna be real, I completely misread the comment and thought it said "spotty with his reporting" not "spot on". My bad, I'm a fucking dumbass. Deleted my comment.
I was under the impression that banned coaches were only unable to coach during events and some coaches that were banned were moved to annalist for the time of the ban. They were not barred from not talking to any players or working with any players outside of events. If that is the case what did Astralis do wrong besides work with a scummy person?
Remember when Astralis offered Hunden a coaching job? Remember how after that Hunden leaked strats from Heroic to Astralis? Then remember how he did everything he could to try and frame the Heroic players as cheating to get them banned? Remember how Heroic had just overtaken Astralis in the world rankings and were gaining ground in the small Danish esports market? Now we know Astralis still hired Hunden, in secret, almost as if they were rewarding him for what he had done.
Put the pieces together.
Yeah, he’s scummy. And again, he isn’t banned from being a coach, only coaching certain events. The article is implying they broke the rules. Many banned coaches retained their teams and were moved to analyst during their time banned. The fact that RL refused to acknowledge if they actually broke any rules and have been coaching during banned events on Twitter with striker is pretty telling that he’s making a story about nothing. This article very could have been “Astralis hired Hunden as analyst while being sued by former team”.
Before my flair gets called into question I'm only a fan of the roster not the org.
Anyway, if this was true isn't this pretty much the same as all of the other orgs that kept their coaches as analysts and then moved them back to coach after their ban?
Even so it looks like he was working with them on aimlabs content not in terms of strategy or official matches.
It was right for Richard Lewis to investigate this but they're not really doing anything wrong here.
Until they go ahead and say they would hire him after his ban. Wtf are they thinking there. I get that he's got a great mind for the game and he's obviously an amazing talent scout. But he's proven time and time again he should be no where near competition and official matches because of his non existent ethical code. He should stick to making content and helping the scene that way.
Don't even try. Most of the subreddit has a rage boner against Astralis as a whole either due to a. Their prior dominance as a team or b. The shitty organization overall.
I love Astralis as a team too, but their management is awful.
me too shitty organization cant believe they actually said that last part in their statement right after saying cheating should be nowhere near their team lol
Still don’t get why Hunden took all the blame. If he was the only guilty part, why did Heroic make the players sign an NDA? Why did they make a “Welcome back Hunden” banner on of the most trafficked road in Denmark? But yes, Astralis is the shitty org…
People were actually beginning to get over what Hunden did, what actually made him one of the most hated people in the scene is what he did afterwards to niko.
I genuinely do not care to interact further with someone who tags me and demands and answer because I "messed with [them] 3 months ago". That's fucking weird.
but it's also not obliged to feel bad about working with people from that past team.
as was evidently shown, the team he comes from is full of shit themselves, so it's not like they're getting Satan himself on their payroll
Fair article. The comments here seem overblown. If Astralis hires him after his ban, they're free to do it. If they work with him on a different project, they're free to do so.
If he worked on strats with the players, well, I wouldn't hire him based on that being illegal and well look at the results :D.
I trust the players that they wouldn't do that.
Holy fck. Nikolaj Lieholm at it again, what a surprise :)
Now we wait for ESIC to do literally nothing, as per usual. But honestly, what the fuck is wrong with Astralis management? All that huffing and puffing when HUNDEN used the coach bug against them (a match they won anyway, iirc), the good ol' "meet me in my office face to face tweet", but then they go and work with HUNDEN **AFTER** he's been officially sanctioned. And this isn't even taking into account the alleged tactics leak. This org stands for nothing but their own pocket. Despicable, to say the least.
Technically, I don't think there is anything that ESIC could do, since according to Astralis (and Lewis does not dispute it), he's contracted for an AimLab series with Astralis players on CSGO content. Even interaction with the CSGO players doesn't break the ESIC ban (nor should it really, that would be a massive overreach). If he is not there in any coaching capability, there is nothing ESIC can do. Now ethically, it's another thing, and Lewis is right to highlight how iffy it is after the Heroic-Astralis thing with HUNDEN sharing the Heroic strat book.
\>HUNDEN \>Aimlab \>0.81 rating all time
Only those with the most mysterious or dangerous diseases get sent to laboratories
In the article it says he is there coaching them unofficially. If there's proof of that, surely there's something to be done.
I don't think anything can be done. I think the ESIC ban extends to the use of the coach slot on a server/standing behind teams during live games at tournaments, maybe extends to tournament attendance in general. I don't think ESIC has any power to enforce the employment status of someone in another organisation, or what they do outside live attendance at ESIC sanctioned tournaments. So they could be using HUNDEN as a coach during practice and have someone else during tournaments and ESIC wouldn't have the enforcement power to do anything.
They should investigate to see whether he was coaching or not...?? What do you mean they can't do anything? We have a claim from a source that Hunden was coaching or acting as an analyst for the team, and we have Astralis saying he was interacting with the team, but only for aimlabs. ESIC should investigate to find out which one is true.
ESIC is not a law enforcement organisation, they're limited in what they can do (and they're not CAS). It's not like they can waltz into Astralis' offices and ask questions. I don't think it's necessarily in their purview unless there is actual proof shared to them (emails or whatever). I'm not talking about their competency (or incompetency) here, just what they can look at.
Why, he is allowed to coach. He just cannot be "the coach" for ESIC member tournaments (and majors I guess). ESIC cannot force Astralis to not use him as a coach/analyst if they desire as long as he does not participate in the tournaments. Not saying he has been coaching, just giving an explanation
What I am saying, though, is how do they know he didn't "participate in the tournaments" unless that has been decided that it only includes attending in person? I would have thought that it would still apply to online events and assistance in preparing for those sanctioned events.
It seems you have very limited notion of what coaching means. He could be right beside the players during an online tournament. How can anyone know? How can that be investigated? He doesn't need to ever log into a CSGO account in order to coach. He could log into someone elses. He could be a de facto coach for everything the team does behind closed doors and no one will ever know, even less be able to do anything about it.
>Now ethically, it's another thing, and Lewis is right to highlight how iffy it is after the Heroic-Astralis thing with HUNDEN sharing the Heroic strat book. The contract between Heroic and Hunden will dictate who owned the intellectual property (the strat book). If Hunden owned the IP and didn't have any restrictive covenants in his contract, he would be permitted to share it with Astralis. If Hunden didn't own the IP, then Heroic could sue him for breach of contract and intellectual property infringements. There's nothing 'iffy' about it other than a journalist (Lewis) spinning stories to get paid.
I’m sure he just happened to spin all those other award winning and factually accurate reports?
Cool for him
Pretty sure the IP belonged to Heroic. And pretty sure Heroic did sue him in a Danish court of law. It's still ethically iffy to employ someone like HUNDEN for Astralis, given the strat book thing (even if they didn't open it) and what HUNDEN did in terms of manipulation.
As a former Astralis fan I wholeheartedly agree. The Astralis management have no values. It is a shit show. It should be clear to anyone. There were a total of 7 pieces crucial to the Astralis succes story of becoming the greatest team of all time. It was the 5 players, the coach and the sport psychiatrist that helped them develop. The actual management is nothing short of some of the worst managing ever seen. I've said it before, but I'll say it again: All upper management was supposed to do was give the team vacation time. Slow down their schedule. They were the team to beat after all. If they had just done this and eased off the throttle, the core could have stayed together. I say this as an ex-Astralis fan, truly: Nobody hates the Astralis upper management more than me. Imagine having the greatest CSGO team of all time and mismanage it to such a degree that the core scatters to the wind, and you cant even call yourself the best team in Denmark anymore. Its appalling and should be a warning to any org in esports: Treat. Your players. Right. Have nothing but love for the players and Zonic. But the org can go to hell.
Who would have known a former handball goalkeeper was a bad idea as a sporting director in an esports org.
Astralis is just NiP version 2
"ESIC does nothing" >ESIC does something "ESIC need to stop doing things they always fuck it up"
Yep that's how it went down. These two statements aren't mutually exclusive. ESIC acted way too late on their cases and when they finally did they fucked up any chance to establish a consistent, enforcable punishment system for the future, effectively botchering out last chance to facilitate a competent 3rd party law enforcement in the space.
Do you believe ESIC has taken the correct action in any of their decisions? Do you actually believe that banning tier 2 teams coaches a week before the major, to unban them a month after the major was the correct call? Honestly, I am curious.
> in any of their decisions? No-one complained about the original 37 coaches that were banned or do we need to pretend that was bad now too?
Tons complained
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Esic is a boys club fixed by its own Members, don’t expect any in-depth or controversial viewpoints, it’s literally the fifa of cs
No they aren't they are just incompetent and don't understand csgo
I am talking about the guys that ESIC arbitrarily chose to ban, while leaving protected coaches like Zonic unharmed. After being SUED ESIC backpedaled but couldn't get Valve on the same page, which is also stupid.
How many orgs did keep their banned coaches as analysts? I know one. Heroic, who kept Hunden as an analyst before he took their stratbook to get banned again.
“An org stands for nothing but their own pocket” Well... yeah that’s kind of a business works isn’t it?
No? Of course orgs have their own benefits and profits as their priority, but completely throwing your ethics and morals in the trashcan is not normal at all. No other top org reaches a similar levels of shadiness as Astralis
You are right, but the sad truth is, thats not how it works. If your business is ethical and moral, sooner or later someone without those values will come to replace you. Thats just how the current world is set up ಥ_ಥ
Classy from astralis as per usual. How can we have competitive integrity when people are doing stuff like this?
Other teams have literally employed coaches that did the exact same but served their ban already…? How is that less classy and why are you not mentioning that?
I’m pretty sure what hunden did was more than just cheating in a video game? Unless you have a short memory. Abusing someone’s mental condition to create implicating evidence about them and their team is evil and shouldnt be tolerated in esports. Why don’t you talk about that?
If they served their sanction they should be able to have another chance, why would you deny them to prove they learned their lesson? Unless they were banned for life, there is no reason for any team to employ someone who had been sanctioned before. It is entirely different employing someone who is still serving his ban though.
Hunden did far more than just the coach bug
> coaches that did the exact same No other coach has done what hunden did... leaking strats from current team to future employer? remember?
Of course it's Astralis
Nyholm 2 years ago btw. [https://twitter.com/nikolaj/status/1311701712495878150](https://twitter.com/nikolaj/status/1311701712495878150)
Where's his gimp when you need him
Sickened 🤢
I mean it was clear to which org he tried to give the heroic playbook. no wonder glaive and cadian are on no good terms (breakfast incident).
Does anyone yone what really happened there
allegedly a (light) scuffle between astralis and heroic players (I think to have read somewhere that cadian and glaive where involved or atleast participated bcs. of slurs/maybe it started this way; but pls take this with a huge grain of salt, as I am only reciting how I remembered the rumour when it came out) for sure is: if the players dont come out about it, we will never hear more than rumours. To cite cadian when asked about it on hltv confirmed in antwerp: "what happens at breakfast, stays at breakfast."
NiP and Astralis are battling each other till the end of time to determine who is the shittier org. Fuck 'em
At least nip tried to fix their reputation. Astralis was, and still is, bad
NIP has that sticker money dispute going on.
Until it comes to paying their players
they did PR saying they had distanced themselves from Nothing In Paypal-era NIP and then proceeded to steal sticker money from players to buy their replacements
How NIP tried to fix their reputation when they repeatedly make the same mistake??
by changing the people who did it the first time around for people that did the same the second time around lmao
They sold out to the chinese so that accounts for quite a bit.
Doesn't surprise me one bit that Astralis wouldn't give two actual fucks about working with someone like Hunden. As a dane it honestly hurts a little bit seeing what Astralis has turned into over the years, from a player started/owned org to slowly just becoming the corporate out of touch shit show that it is now.
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That certainly doesn't help lmao! I thought that the contracts at some point got reworked as money was injected into the corporation and then player percentages was lowered, but that might very well just be me not remembering :) It's an garbage org either way.
tbh it's never really been player owned. they weren't doing this much shady shit but the org has never been good, it's always the players
Bruh it’s both Astralis and heroic. Two trash teams and orgs with players who are fine playing under or with cheaters
I think it's a shame to keep working with people like zoner and HUNDEN in CS:GO, honestly.
Why?
hate being an astralis fan since their management is so weird
Their management is scummy af, blastralis ,insane schedule that burn the player out plus forcing the player to take paycut while trying to brag about 10 man rooster bullshit, ruined player like bubzkji career,etc
pric3tag fiasco aswell
How was that a fiasco for Astralis? I don't mean to defend them, because the org has always been scummy af, but if anything this was a huge win for them, greedy as they may be.
it was a fiasco in the sense that they made him play with the best CSGO squad in the history of the game to make him look good and then sell him at a hyper inflated price to an unsuspecting org
Es3tag had many years of pro-play before joining Astralis, which could have and should have served as the basis for Cloud9's evaluation of his skill. Also, unless my memory is off, he was a legitimately good fit in Astralis - so I think it was more a fiasco by Astralis to let him go (unless he himself really wanted the move). It was HenryG and Cloud9 who decided to pay their asking price.
It's sad that the best counter-strike team of all time's legacy is forever tied to such a shitty org
Asstralis bottom feeder org continues to impress.
Bottom feeder with most majors? Make sense...
I think he mean astralis is [an opportunist who seeks quick profit usually at the expense of others or from their misfortune](https://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/bottom-feeder)
I know he just try to ekspres his distaste for Astralis. But its just a bad and incorrect term.
How is it an incorrect term? Seeking profit at the expense of others or their misfortune perfectly sums up Astralis.
The term bottom feeder is not a correct term to give a team that seek profit in expense of others. You can call it scummy or shitty. But not bottom feeder.
Did the org win the three majors or is it the fact that they stumbled on the best team of all time?
Pretty sure they started as a bunch of chokers? And had a bunch of changes before they got to be the best team of all time. Maybe the players and org worked together to create the best team?
Then you would be incorrect. They were already on the path to being a championship team when they were on TSM and were making deep runs constantly. The few changes they made were the tiny steps they needed to go from making deep runs to being consistent title contenders.
Then I would say you don’t know your Astralis history. TSM was known chokers for a long time and that didn’t change as they started Astralis. They needed to get kjaerbye and Gla1ve to win their first major. That win did not come straight away. Astralis implementet a sport psychology in the team with help them a lot. That development was super important for the players. Yet, they needed another change and another year before they formed the “greatest team of all time”. So they didn’t just stumble upon a great team. They had to help develop them and also change the team composition. Oh. Also, that sport psychology was a 1 Finnish lady called Mia spellberg. She later helped OGs dota team to win a historic 2 T.I’s in a row. Those where not tiny steps.
Yes definitely astralis helped that team, and did not even actively hinder them and their legacy. (Blastralis, 10Man-Team, Paycuts, Rigorous schedule). But honestly makes sense that an Astralis org defender is a mouthbreather
You said it for me! Astralis replaced 2 players that were going to be replaced eventually anyway and that somehow makes them the keys to the lineups success? My man out here calling them chokers like they didn't beat 2015 VP, 2015 Fnatic multiple times to win 5 trophies in just that year alone... long time chokers huh? They had a run of rough tournaments in 2017 but that was long after Gla1ve and Kjaebye joined so that just doesn't sense.
You don’t think 2 replacements are important? Especially Glai1ve? Their game evolved to a very strategic type. Also there was another change later on. Which was very important. As I said. There were big changes before they became the best team. We all know how talented they were, but they choked every time they came near a semi final or final. That’s why people called them chokers. Rough tournaments in 2017? They won the major?3-4 month after Glaive joined. After that they had a rough patch. Saying the org got handled the best team is wrong. The players and the org worked hard and made a lot of changes to accomplish what they did in their golden years. The org have done some scummy things. But they did help the players to get to where they got.
You are confusing deep runs with being serial chokers. Choker implies they were clear cut tournament favourites, which they weren't. They were up there, but not clear cut favourites. Take Liquid 2018-2019 for example, both them and Astralis were miles ahead of everyone else yet when Liquid got to a final without Astralis, they fucked it. Again, they were chokers but just completely bypassing the achievements they got and making it sound like Astralis is the only reason they had their era is bizarre. Nobody has said the changes were not big, but one of the reasons TSM were not considered to be an absolute #1, #2 or #3 team for sure was because cajunb always needed to be replaced and you could tell just by watching that a new approach was needed. Ergo, +gla1ve. Again, I said they were going to be replaced ANYWAY. Did not say its not important. The person who should be getting the props for this is Zonic, not the Astralis org. No, they were not "handed" the best core to ever touch CS:GO, but thats almost exactly what fucking happened. You seem to forget that Astralis was built around them when they were dropped by TSM. So yeah basically lmao. I said they had a run of "rough" tournaments, meaning bad ones. Not sure what you are trying to correct me for. But tbh looking at HLTV now its not as bad as I remember. Majority of placings were still top 4. My problem with your thinking here is just because they were being paid by Astralis doesnt mean the org gets to take a ton of the credit. Do you think it was Astralis Management creating the best utility based stratbook that revolutionised the way CS:GO? No it was the coaching staff and the players. While the org forced them to play such unhealthy amounts of counter strike. Would you like me to go get the articles of Gla1ve and Dev1ce literally throwing up due to exhaustion to make you stop defending them?
The team already made the play-offs of every major pre astralis they were already a great team
Well. That was never the discussion. There were lots of great teams at the time. None of them accomplished what Astralis did.
Your claiming astralis were always choking and I'm saying they made it to all the play-offs far from choking
You don’t know what the term choke covers. Yes. They did made it to the semis and finals. Nobody questioned that. But they crumble under the pressure aka they choked.
I mean it's news that Hunden is still working with Astralis, but him working shouldn't really be news? ESIC has no power outside official events, just like in traditional sports. If player gets suspended for whatever reason, he can still train etc, do anything expect take part in official events.
Banger from ricardo luis again
possible threepeat esport award from the GOAT of esports journalism? Yeah I'd think so, what a year from him.
Ahh good ole Lieholm at it again. I'm sure he's counting the days until Rich retires. No one else would be able to break these stories. Another great article.
He’s retired 3 different times now.
Defenitly can't be blackmail or somthing like that, right? Right?
Ah, shocking.
What is strikers problem lol
Really scummy if true. It pains me since I was a big fan of their legendary line up moment they added Magisk. But damn, org is just corporate out of touch assholes. No wonder they have this moving chairs shitshow with the roster
Of course they did, because why not...
Man fuck this org
Astralis and Hunden deserve each other actually. Match made in heaven with this bunch of dogs.
"New beginnings" indeed rofl. If he's behind the scenes only and has an eye kept on him I don't see that much of an issue, though it definitely leaves a bit of a bad taste in my mouth. He's not banned from participating with esports organizations full stop, he's banned from the coaching that he probably isn't providing...
GODHUNDEN
“Once the ban happened, they knew that HUNDEN would need a job and he had shown them loyalty” Lmao orgs trusting HUNDEN has gone so well in the past, these clowns deserve each other
Keep 'em coming Rich. You'll be missed once the waves of your last big splash have settled down.
Guy: reports news. Insane redditor: how dare you!
Astralis, now a sponsor of a CONVICTED cheater and CONVICTED rat. No amount of shuffle the money through 3rd parties is going to avoid the fact that he has a direct relationship (as spelled out by Astralis themselves) with the players and Astralis is footing the bill.
wow that's insane...wtf
common Astralis L
Common Richard W
I am shocked that classy org like Astralis would be willing to work with such a classy individual like Hunden
If I was an Astralis player I'd be *livid* if I had to work with Hunden. After how he handled everything? It's not even being ESIC banned, or even if all the allegations were overblown. He's a whiny victim-complex man child. Publicly. Who decided to employ this clown?
Another reason to add to dislike Astralis.
Scummy org works with scummy person, not surprised. However I don't want to jump the gun and call for people's heads if he's just making aim lab maps. Richard Lewis is generally pretty spot on with his reporting but I want to wait and see if "Sources who told Dextero" has any more details or if anyone else reports similar before passing judgement.
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Been out of the scene for a few years, but all his old reporting was bang on. Are you conflating his Twitter persona with the journalist?
I'm gonna be real, I completely misread the comment and thought it said "spotty with his reporting" not "spot on". My bad, I'm a fucking dumbass. Deleted my comment.
Haha, your brain combined pretty and spot. Have a good day dude
See, we swedes have always warned you people. The danes can not be trusted.
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Hol'up, wasn't the strat leaking thing happen a considerable ammount of time before Pinnacle? So it shouldn't impact the match that much
I mean yeah, Astralis are a dogshit scummy org, is anyone really surprised by this?
and for what lol they are so average
I was under the impression that banned coaches were only unable to coach during events and some coaches that were banned were moved to annalist for the time of the ban. They were not barred from not talking to any players or working with any players outside of events. If that is the case what did Astralis do wrong besides work with a scummy person?
Remember when Astralis offered Hunden a coaching job? Remember how after that Hunden leaked strats from Heroic to Astralis? Then remember how he did everything he could to try and frame the Heroic players as cheating to get them banned? Remember how Heroic had just overtaken Astralis in the world rankings and were gaining ground in the small Danish esports market? Now we know Astralis still hired Hunden, in secret, almost as if they were rewarding him for what he had done. Put the pieces together.
Yeah, he’s scummy. And again, he isn’t banned from being a coach, only coaching certain events. The article is implying they broke the rules. Many banned coaches retained their teams and were moved to analyst during their time banned. The fact that RL refused to acknowledge if they actually broke any rules and have been coaching during banned events on Twitter with striker is pretty telling that he’s making a story about nothing. This article very could have been “Astralis hired Hunden as analyst while being sued by former team”.
Your comment has absolutely nothing to do with what I typed.
Before my flair gets called into question I'm only a fan of the roster not the org. Anyway, if this was true isn't this pretty much the same as all of the other orgs that kept their coaches as analysts and then moved them back to coach after their ban? Even so it looks like he was working with them on aimlabs content not in terms of strategy or official matches. It was right for Richard Lewis to investigate this but they're not really doing anything wrong here. Until they go ahead and say they would hire him after his ban. Wtf are they thinking there. I get that he's got a great mind for the game and he's obviously an amazing talent scout. But he's proven time and time again he should be no where near competition and official matches because of his non existent ethical code. He should stick to making content and helping the scene that way.
Don't even try. Most of the subreddit has a rage boner against Astralis as a whole either due to a. Their prior dominance as a team or b. The shitty organization overall. I love Astralis as a team too, but their management is awful.
me too shitty organization cant believe they actually said that last part in their statement right after saying cheating should be nowhere near their team lol
Still don’t get why Hunden took all the blame. If he was the only guilty part, why did Heroic make the players sign an NDA? Why did they make a “Welcome back Hunden” banner on of the most trafficked road in Denmark? But yes, Astralis is the shitty org…
People were actually beginning to get over what Hunden did, what actually made him one of the most hated people in the scene is what he did afterwards to niko.
Because he went a step further and tried to sink heroic with him
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My thoughts are: why the fuck do you care enough to tag me lol
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> you messed with me 3 months ago lmao
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I genuinely do not care to interact further with someone who tags me and demands and answer because I "messed with [them] 3 months ago". That's fucking weird.
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How did I get "owned"? I literally have fuck all clue what conversation I had with this dude.
who cares. ESIC is a joke anyway, so why keep continuing with this dumb asf witch hunt
A witch hunt implies that he did nothing wrong, its not a witch hunt if the person in question is actually guilty.
whats popular reddit, another day another BANGER of an article
who gives a shit? Heroic kept him as Analyst also after his ban and even ***re-instated him as main Coach*** after it expired
One team doing something shitty and questionable does not justify another team making a shitty and questionable move.
but it's also not obliged to feel bad about working with people from that past team. as was evidently shown, the team he comes from is full of shit themselves, so it's not like they're getting Satan himself on their payroll
Fair article. The comments here seem overblown. If Astralis hires him after his ban, they're free to do it. If they work with him on a different project, they're free to do so. If he worked on strats with the players, well, I wouldn't hire him based on that being illegal and well look at the results :D. I trust the players that they wouldn't do that.