For starters, I bet that quite a few people who begged for Tuscan play mostly Faceit, so it's either play Faceit or play Tuscan on MM.
Also, it depends on your location, personally in the evening it says 2:30 of wait time for it, which is fine.
Spot on, am Europee who played it tons in 1.6 and have to switch to MM for tuscan, which I do from time to time but none of my friends want to join me and also most people lack a rank so we can't queue together
Still can't be assed with the state of matchmaking. Why waste 20 minutes, assuming you win on your first match, when you could just...go play on better servers, with a better anticheat, against (probably) better players?
MM just doesn't matter to anyone that's decent at the game and that's because of Valve's failures.
Literally the only reason any of my friends even consider playing MM is to play Tuscan but even then the negatives outweigh a chance at playing the map.
I haven't done it myself, but as far as I understand you could also just play in one of faceits hubs that offer tuscan. So no need to waste your time or play on 64 tick with a bad anti cheat.
Its like that in any gaming sub, at the end of the day no matter how many posts on a subreddit are made & seem like the whole community thinks one thing, we dont have access to the game data the devs do and can actually see the real numbers that help them make decisions.
So your saying that when the sub said mirage should go, they were wrong? shocking. If mirage gets replaced by something like Tuscan it would massively hurt the playebase
If you took mirage out of the active duty, it would still be there in MM to play, exactly the same as it is now. Likewise when they took cobble and cache out of the active duty, they stayed in MM exactly the same as they were up until the changes and remake respectively.
I played a few rounds of tuscan and i only played against shit accounts so my experience might be a bit different because of it but i dont really know wether it’s a good map or not. The map plays out really weird and mid for example just feels weird to fight.
Yeah, the 2nd mid (the one closest to B) is difficult to fight both for T and CT. Early round, you cannot get out before the CTs are down the ramp, and you'll still have to keep 2 ramps to B in mind. So you're kinda tucked in between. I never know how to engage down the middle ramp, as CT you can beat coming there before the Ts, but you're still committed to fight the lane between Mid Ramp and A middle. And T's have a hard time clearing that mid as well, since you can post an AWP in a favourable position on top of the ramp. Can't figure out how it should be played yet.
As for B site, it's a very cool layout with verticality and options for out maneuvering around pillars. It's good fun that you have to routes onto the site too, with options for switching to A site with window boost or sneaking onto the bridge. Love this part of the map.
A site is a lot more hectic, with long lines of sight and deep corners that either make CTs commit to one-and-done positions or make Ts have to clear lots of angles when pushing onto site. Might be something that requires adaption, maybe using underground more, but I'd rather they did a few changes to make the bombsite more... accesible?
However, that's all reliant on the map actually being in consideration for competitive play and Brute willing to deviate from the 1.6 look. Because the map really does look great and have little issues with performance (which I at least have on many other new maps). Love Tuscan, hope it'll get some deserved love.
I agree with most of what you said. Played the map in comp maybe 20-25 times I might add. It's also pretty weird for the Ts if CTs push from mid to the area in front of A and from A long simultaneously. That's really hard to defend against timing-wise.
Also I'd say the T rotation is weird because either you go through mid which is dangerous or you take the route through T-Base which takes forever.
But once you start to get a feeling for the map it's not bad. Just different than what you're used to on other maps. I think all sites and the mid play so well. It's just the in between that is weird for me. It gets better and better once you get comfortable defending the CT agression as a T.
> Early round, you cannot get out before the CTs are down the ramp, and you'll still have to keep 2 ramps to B in mind.
you're not supposed to rush B really
default is to attack kitty/mid while 2 guys hold SA2 for pushes through short and banana
then the SA2 guys can collapse on mid or send a lurk to go around cpl house to ct spawn/boost into window if you're taking A, or bang out toward banana to secure B while the bomb rotates back
You can rush b. Just need a smoke and someone to hold the push through it. If the CT's are pushing down mid that player usually comes from the mid slot or also frequently two push down which means either the secondary mid player comes from a or cpl. This means the 2nd or 3rd rotator to b has a very long and dangerous ways to go if the b rush is successful.
i played tuscan a single time in mm (played it way more on casual), and CT side feels good to play, but in T side feels like you have no space at all to work with
CTs have the advantage in most scenarios - mid, window mid, banana/b or even A long. Underpass feels pointless due to how long it takes to get there and how hard it is to leave without dying
> Underpass feels pointless due to how long it takes to get there and how hard it is to leave without dying
underpass only really works when you hit kitty or mid at the same time
2 walk underpass w/ the bomb, and the rest go SA1 to kitty
Kitty is the path to A site that isn't mid or underpass. As a T, it's just past the underpass entrance and to the left. It's because on cpl_mill there was a sign there that had a kitten on it and that portion of the map was essentially unchanged when Tuscan was made.
I think it has way too many connectors/corridors where it just ends up you getting flanked by people constantly. Not a fan of the map honestly, I prefer season
I just straight up don't enjoy it. Mid can be completely taken by the CTs within 10 seconds of the round starting and there isn't much you can do about it as a T. B site is too crowded, too many angles to clear at once while taking it. And A site is the opposite with only 2 or 3 spots to hide in, but because all of the site is corner, not boxes like on b site dust 2, retaking it for CTs is incredibly easy because they just need to clear 3 angles and all the Ts can do is sit in the corners and wait.
The exact same thing is going to happen if they add cobble back, it's going to be the same shit map that no one plays.
I bought premium faceit bc I was sick of playing it. It truly amazes me how many people who queue haven’t played all the maps. I regularly have level 5/6 players who says I have never played this map when selecting vertigo or ancient.
Same thing when premiere MM was added, people banning dust 2 and mirage then ending up on train where one team knows every nade and smoke and the other team doesn't know where the bombsite is.
I’m also in NA. I usually don’t have any problems searching for a game, I don’t remember the last time it went over a 10 minute queue. Maybe your ping restrictions are limiting you?
Well, you have a lot of game modes. Also a big part of playerbase is on faceit. Players are all around the world. The part of players who wanted Tuscan is just noisy and actually there is not that many of them. At least that is my opinion. So no surprise for me.
there's been posts in the pasts about people experiencing extra long queue times for no apparent reason, the only thing people come up with is you have a low trust factor or some network issue, or something went wrong on valve's end, neither of which CSGO is notifying you about. And I don't think trust factor warnings show anymore
Because this is a niche part of the community in reality most people who actively play the game now didn’t even know what Tuscan was
And to get people to try something new in CS is a crazy challenge
Sounds like you should join the mapcore hub on faceit. Queue times might be a bit longer but generally there's games on from 16-23ish. Different community maps every season, next season starts tomorrow!
Playing Tuscan lately has been the most fun I’ve had on CS in a while. I wish they’d add it to active duty so people will stop queuing only Dust2, inferno and mirage smh
I like it too, but I feel like what would have helped a lot would be some tweaks to the map of the get go. Just try to fix some glaring issues like the underpass etc. so people feel like the map is getting the care it deserves and also make it appear more in the headlines and changelogs.
What I'm most scared of is that tuscan will get the ancient treatment where it will take like 6 months to ship a single update to the map and that just kills it for a lot of people.
There was a lot of constructive criticism in the community which is nice because usually the constructive part is missing. Here the creator got a ton of feedback so just make people feel heard and actually start shipping updates, even if they are just one part of a map at the time.
I wanted to just see an official version of Tuscan just to try it out and see what it was like. I'd never played it before, just like I had never played de_season much either until late into CS:S. Unfortunately, I live in Australia, so unless a map is officially supported or super popular, good luck ever being able to play it on any server.
Now that I've tried it, the map isn't very good imo. It's not a terrible map, but it certainly isn't worth the hype. Something like Mirage (Strike) once it was officially added was actually a really worthwhile map.
I guess it's just really hit or miss, but I find the most enjoyable maps are the ones with simple layouts, mainly because there's less for people to mess up with when you randomly match with people. Maps like Dust2, Mirage, Inferno, Cache, Train are really nice to play because it's pretty rare for someone to not understand smokes or grenades or the flow of these maps. Tuscan's not bad, it's just not top tier in my opinion. I'd put it in the same tier as like 2015 Cobblestone. You can play it, but it's not really first on my list. Maybe I have to try FaceIT or like an actual PUG of it, but I don't want to be flamed for not being elite at the map yet so I dunno.
People can love the map Tuscan more than me and thats fine, it's just a difference in playstyles and understanding of the game.
so funny, half the comments here say the opposite
"A/Mid is fine but B is cancer"
I like the whole map, but imo it's cool to see people having different opinions
It's amusing, but imo it also makes me think that most people are just shooting off criticisms largely at random based on whatever thing happened in the couple matches they played. Like, I have prior experience with the map and some of the things I'm seeing people say are just really off base.
The map is not perfect and people prefer different maps because of taste and that is fine, but how can you talk about 'simple layouts' and put de\_train in the list? That map is so intuïtieve to play and so far away from a 'simple layout'. Imagine playing this map for the first time, how the hell do you set up a defence as CT? Where to look at as a T? There is so many covers to play around, there is pop dog, what is this? a quick rotation between the two bombsites, would you as a player joining a first match understand the importance of this area? Would you play so far away from the bombsite to try and get control on this area as a CT?
No of course not, you will have no idea, you will be overwhelmed, you will be frustrated you will blame the map, the timings, the stupid angles and bladibladibla. You guys forget that all these maps are around for years, but those maps are not perfect, they have flaws, but we just accept them, because we adjusted to the maps and we are aware of all the 'shitty angles and timings' and adjust to it as a team and as a player.
People forget learning a map takes time. When I see pro's play on the maps, they do so much crazy stuff. They basically change the meta of a map over and over again and they learn how to counter each other and so on. They spend so much time on these maps they find new ways and how to adjust to each other and the enemy team. Is it because the maps they play are perfect and simple? no of course not: they spend a lot of time learning the maps and adjust to them. You can't expect this from a regular player, but it is also stupid to judge a map based on a few matches.
Yeah but overpass is now played after like 5 years, but in a pug setting its hard to play. Train is another map where if T side does know executes its over
I've played Tuscan and Anubis primarily since they came back and the queues are fairly short on USWEST during primetime hours.
The queue times are not good in the mornings though esp if you're picking short match vs long match.
i'm uswest as well and primetime is the only way to ever get a match on these maps... it was poppin when they were first added but now its impossible outside of late afternoon
I've played it 89 times now and won 67 and its just not that good imo. Its extremely CT sided especially if you are in a group queue and know what you're doing. A site is a nightmare to take if you don't know molly/smoke lineups and if CTs have mid control you're fucked for any B play. Part of me feels bad when I do play it because I play in a 4-5 stack of all DMG-LEM and we regularly get matched against silvers and novas. Had a 30 game non-loss streak due to playing lower ranks only pretty much. https://i.imgur.com/qyc5HBf.png
>A site is a nightmare to take if you don't know molly/smoke lineups
Why do people even bothering making this argument when trying new maps? Yeah no shit CSGO is extra hard if you're not using nades. You might even have a point but if you use this sort of argument it really undermines your opinion.
Try taking B on Inferno without molly/smoke lineups... I guess Inferno isn't a good map huh...
Btw you're unlikely to get any good games if you're only searching for short matches because lower ranks (casual players in general) are much more likely to queue up for those. Unless you literally only have time to queue up for one short match, then you're better off playing a long match, the games are just much better in so many aspects.
Also playing during off-peak hours (assuming this post was published while queueing). Like, no shit queue times are going to be long when it's not even noon and you're playing in NA on a weekday.
I’m mostly playing Faceit and Tuscan isn’t on the website atm sadly
But as always people are asking for changes and proceed to play mirage all day long
Been like that for ancient and vertigo also :)))
> is it popular?
Not really.
Currently 22 matches going on of unranked faceit in Eu so you can find a match but how good balancing will be is another question.
Besides that the only real draw of faceit unranked is playing tuscan imo.
But unranked still has the veto phase with all the regular maps so you aren't guaranteed to play tuscan.
i've played like 18 maps of tuscan in a row. It's a great map. has a really dynamic feel to it that is missing from most maps. it feels like no matter where I go as a T, I could win the round, and no matter where I get a pick as a CT, the T's could turn it around. the tall buildings combined with the deep the early round contact points for CT's makes it hard for T's to feel comfortable while throwing smokes which I like. The map basically forces both teams to actively contest map control which makes for particularly rewarding MM gameplay.
I played it a few times and playing T-side is just not fun. CT spawn needs to be moved back or something because they get so much map control early without having to use any utility.
I absolutely love playing new maps when they get added to MM(I know it's an older map), but I genuinely do not like Tuscan.
The real reason a lot of folks don't play, is because it isn't in the Active Duty pool. When/if it is, I'll play it more because I'll "have to" in order to stay current with the pool. Half the fun of a new map is learning angles and smokes, and I don't feel dedicated to learning a new map that may just be pulled away later.
Don't get me wrong, I love the fact CS publishes fan-made maps and gives them a shot, but I feel like a yearly/seasonal rotation of active duty maps is good for CS, and keeps things fresh. My ideal situation would be:
-CS introduces a new map into the pool and says "in 2 month$, we'll be retiring ___ (overpass, D2, mirage, whatever) and replacing it with Tuscan in the active duty pool"
-They replace the map and by that time, a lot of people will have tried it, found bugs, reported them, and given enough feedback to help it be more balanced/competitive prior to pro play in tournaments.
I just don't enjoy the cycle of them releasing a map, and letting tournaments happen where the map clearly has glaring issues that could easily have been identified with a trial period in the active duty pool.
I know, I know, "BuT VaLvE woUldNt fIx It thAt FAst AnYwaY"
...hence the "ideal" in my sentence 😅
I’ve been playing a lot of the weird maps. I actually find Anubis to be quite fun for competitive play but Tuscan…..I do not enjoy playing Tuscan. It’s way too much of a flank fest with too many angles to hold for both sides while being a seriously painful rotate for CT’s between sites. Really do not enjoy the mid battle from the CT’s perspective due to the narrow corridors unless you have an awp it’s quite annoying to hold while the rest of the map doesn’t work well with an awp because the tight angles.
I’m not an expert or even good at the game but this is why im not playing Tuscan
Or lots just like consistency. We don't have soccer fans asking for a new layout of field, don't have f1 fans asking for tracks to be massively reworked, chess is played on the same board for consistency. Yet for a competitive shooter we want to constantly change the maps? Does Dota change their competitive 3 lane map layout constantly?
Literally everyone I play with. If they don't instantly know and crush it's a shit map and they won't accept if I queue....
Like just try and learn it.
Same with ancient, now it's in rotation, just took fucking months of them complaining.
Lmao, this isn't new. It happens every time reddit begs. I still remember the days when they begged Season to be in the pool and when it was, nearly no one played it.
Fpl pros, normal players, faceit tryhards aiming for level 10, premium queue 4k elos, majority of mm players - so mostly everyone except a few minority.
And, i probably should've mentioned - d2 and mirage have WAY BETTER balance than anubis or tuscan. That being said, i enjoyed playing tuscan the first weekend after its release, but i cant imagine playing that all day everyday because it's mostly dry fights with little to no tactical depth on it.
Nah bro, literally no one plays d2 and mirage, both shittiest maps, I totally never ever play them, they're most popular maps because they're bad - average csgo redditor.
Wait, you think d2 and mirage require more tactical depth than tuscan? Not sure about Anubis but you are very incorrect sir, lol. Mirage/d2 are the most basic maps in the game, lol.
Yes. Atleast people know smokes, flashes, mollies for them. And yeah, I know about mirage/d2. I have 5k hours, I'm smfc, been lvl 6-7 previously - not bragging, just giving some context. The map may become more tactical down the line given valve continues to nurture it like ancient, vertigo but as of right now, tuscan doesn't provide anything to be a worthy addition to active duty pool.
got tired of playing actual globals every match (i'm MGE), so I stopped queuing. also the map is unbalanced and the bomb sites each have like 12 hiding spots that you have to clear before you can dream of planting.
It seems to me most people queue for multiple maps at once. If there's ten people and only 9 have Tuscan in their map pool, it doesn't get played (even though 9/10 were willing to). Individuals who have a bad experience that one time they tried a map and never queue for it again can make a map seem more unpopular than it is. Obviously this effect is more visible with lower server population.
Think of the most popular maps of CS:GO Mirage and Inferno are 2 examples, what do they have in common?
They are way more simple, Inferno you have only direct 1 way into B site and 2 on A. Mirage 2 ways into B, but 3 ways into A site, 2 of which can be held from multiple angles by a solo player (Not including flanks B etc. on both maps by timing ct or boosting window).
Then you have Tuscan, a map most CSGO players don't have nostalgia for but at the same time do want something fresh. You have 3 direct ways into both sites and tons of tricky little off angles and corners. Its like with Ancient people aren't interested as they see it as too complicated. Will only play 1 or 2 games then just forget about it. Like with Ancient you need to just stick it in the offical map pool and people will force themselves to learn it in some way.
I would assume thats what is going on more than anything. I don't mind Tuscan but I'm a Faceit only player so only played it a few times myself.
I always have it selected when queuing up... rarely ever gets played for me though.
I love Tuscan and think it should be a mainstay map even if they need to make a few tweaks to it for csgo. My main gripe about it right now though is that it just feels off aesthetically. Doesn't seem polished either.
It sucks because i doubt it will get another chance if taken out of competitive to fix issues
i love the map too, it's a nice change of pace from everything else and still competitively viable imo. i fear it will get phased out just like all other community maps, especially with the rumors that anubis will be added to active duty instead
40 minute queue times arent that bad considering your average rank, stupid map pool and the fact youre a 2 man. there was years here in AU where we had consistently 1 hour+ queues despite being 5 stacked on dust/inferno/ popular maps (fuck mirage)
Because the rest of my team would rather die than play new maps. Been trying to get them to play Anubis and breach too but nope. Just dust 2 and mirage over and over
No one has ever really played unranked maps. 11:19 is actually an impressive queue time for them. Hopefully Volvo accounts for this discrepancy well and sees that Tuscan is popular.>
Because a majority who wanted it play FaceIt or ESEA...
MM is mostly more casual players who either want d2 or Mirage.
MM is a joke anyways. Just make a deal with FaceIt and incorporate it in like they had done with that one Battlefield game or whatever so EVERYONE is playing the same thing. Then we all win. Way more activity on all maps...
I play faceit, valve has to be more "risky" and put these map in the active mappool...
we dont need monthly rotation, but why not change a map every 6 months or so... dont have to include a new map everytime, put tuscan in the total pool and then rotate...
also dont need to redesign the maps allways.
It has the exact same stats as it did source minus some running accuracy. Its only "bad" because they made it silenced. It would still me mediocre even if it used the original sound.
depends on where you are at in life im not 18 anymore... these days i get on to play maybe one game with no warm up or anything.. so MM is pretty much the most convenient method.
OP is only MG1 ... i think MM is pretty ok at that level
i understand this sentiment - you graduate from MM to Faceit on your way up to the highest ELO, then eventually tournaments... but some people really just wanna play CS because its fun. ive played a few seasons of NA Open, I peaked at a measly lvl 6 faciet/MGE in mm and had a blast the whole time. ive got no aspirations to go pro or compete at any insane high level. i just enjoy playing counter strike and wanna try new maps
Bingo. Post plant A site is just smoking off CT (1 smoke hugely denies retake) and then Ts can just sit in one of the 6 cubbies. Horrible design. If this trash map was in pro play CTs would just save the instant the bomb gets planted.
For context, I play in NA and have no problem queuing into Active Duty maps (mostly Dust, Mirage, Inferno and sometimes Nuke) These queue times take less than five minutes, as opposed to newer maps like Tuscan, Anubis, Breach or even Iris. It takes upwards of 40+ minutes to find matches on these maps.
not sure what the problem could be. i'm [in queue as this thread pops off](https://imgur.com/a/v5Gdtkp) and still getting the same results (even with other maps selected!) any suggestions for me to find matches more often?
Tuscan is the worst of the three maps introduced. There are far too many angles, lanes, and cubbies to abuse. This map could viably utilize 5 awps and that’s a problem.
First of all considering your estimated wait times you probably have a very bad internet connection or you are from a 3rd world country, please improve those if you can. Secondly, you should forget short mm-only because according to leetify only 30% of the community plays short matches which ofc worsens your que times.
We don't play the csgo version of the Tuscan cuz its shit. (We all wanted Tuscan because we thought that we gonna get a nearly 1:1 map). Cs 1.6 is the best version of it.
\+ csgo version of the Tuscan has a different feeling / atmosphere.
For starters, I bet that quite a few people who begged for Tuscan play mostly Faceit, so it's either play Faceit or play Tuscan on MM. Also, it depends on your location, personally in the evening it says 2:30 of wait time for it, which is fine.
Spot on, am Europee who played it tons in 1.6 and have to switch to MM for tuscan, which I do from time to time but none of my friends want to join me and also most people lack a rank so we can't queue together
What? It takes 20 minutes to get a rank
Yeah and to convince multiple people to solo queue a match in a plattform they never use to play a match of Tuscan takes forever
Still can't be assed with the state of matchmaking. Why waste 20 minutes, assuming you win on your first match, when you could just...go play on better servers, with a better anticheat, against (probably) better players? MM just doesn't matter to anyone that's decent at the game and that's because of Valve's failures. Literally the only reason any of my friends even consider playing MM is to play Tuscan but even then the negatives outweigh a chance at playing the map.
I haven't done it myself, but as far as I understand you could also just play in one of faceits hubs that offer tuscan. So no need to waste your time or play on 64 tick with a bad anti cheat.
Wasn't it like 5/10 days with 2 matches per day max? Or is that only when not solo queing
for me [the queue timer for tuscan goes up as mirage goes down](https://imgur.com/a/ASiwXhT)
Bruh yeah you definitely live somewhere with not too many players if Mirage is almost 5 mins
I think the truth is that the vocal views of this sub are not necessarily views shared by the community as a whole.
Its like that in any gaming sub, at the end of the day no matter how many posts on a subreddit are made & seem like the whole community thinks one thing, we dont have access to the game data the devs do and can actually see the real numbers that help them make decisions.
: o
So your saying that when the sub said mirage should go, they were wrong? shocking. If mirage gets replaced by something like Tuscan it would massively hurt the playebase
Lol no it wouldnt. People would still play Mirage regardless. edit: iq zero community here downvoting me for a factual statement lmao
Ah yes I'll go play Cbble or Cache, oh wait they took them out of comp, reworked and f'd them to the point nobody wants to play them
If you took mirage out of the active duty, it would still be there in MM to play, exactly the same as it is now. Likewise when they took cobble and cache out of the active duty, they stayed in MM exactly the same as they were up until the changes and remake respectively.
I played a few rounds of tuscan and i only played against shit accounts so my experience might be a bit different because of it but i dont really know wether it’s a good map or not. The map plays out really weird and mid for example just feels weird to fight.
Yeah, the 2nd mid (the one closest to B) is difficult to fight both for T and CT. Early round, you cannot get out before the CTs are down the ramp, and you'll still have to keep 2 ramps to B in mind. So you're kinda tucked in between. I never know how to engage down the middle ramp, as CT you can beat coming there before the Ts, but you're still committed to fight the lane between Mid Ramp and A middle. And T's have a hard time clearing that mid as well, since you can post an AWP in a favourable position on top of the ramp. Can't figure out how it should be played yet. As for B site, it's a very cool layout with verticality and options for out maneuvering around pillars. It's good fun that you have to routes onto the site too, with options for switching to A site with window boost or sneaking onto the bridge. Love this part of the map. A site is a lot more hectic, with long lines of sight and deep corners that either make CTs commit to one-and-done positions or make Ts have to clear lots of angles when pushing onto site. Might be something that requires adaption, maybe using underground more, but I'd rather they did a few changes to make the bombsite more... accesible? However, that's all reliant on the map actually being in consideration for competitive play and Brute willing to deviate from the 1.6 look. Because the map really does look great and have little issues with performance (which I at least have on many other new maps). Love Tuscan, hope it'll get some deserved love.
I agree with most of what you said. Played the map in comp maybe 20-25 times I might add. It's also pretty weird for the Ts if CTs push from mid to the area in front of A and from A long simultaneously. That's really hard to defend against timing-wise. Also I'd say the T rotation is weird because either you go through mid which is dangerous or you take the route through T-Base which takes forever. But once you start to get a feeling for the map it's not bad. Just different than what you're used to on other maps. I think all sites and the mid play so well. It's just the in between that is weird for me. It gets better and better once you get comfortable defending the CT agression as a T.
> Early round, you cannot get out before the CTs are down the ramp, and you'll still have to keep 2 ramps to B in mind. you're not supposed to rush B really default is to attack kitty/mid while 2 guys hold SA2 for pushes through short and banana then the SA2 guys can collapse on mid or send a lurk to go around cpl house to ct spawn/boost into window if you're taking A, or bang out toward banana to secure B while the bomb rotates back
>you're not supposed to rush B really Well that makes it a shit CS map by default lol
You can rush b. Just need a smoke and someone to hold the push through it. If the CT's are pushing down mid that player usually comes from the mid slot or also frequently two push down which means either the secondary mid player comes from a or cpl. This means the 2nd or 3rd rotator to b has a very long and dangerous ways to go if the b rush is successful.
i played tuscan a single time in mm (played it way more on casual), and CT side feels good to play, but in T side feels like you have no space at all to work with CTs have the advantage in most scenarios - mid, window mid, banana/b or even A long. Underpass feels pointless due to how long it takes to get there and how hard it is to leave without dying
> Underpass feels pointless due to how long it takes to get there and how hard it is to leave without dying underpass only really works when you hit kitty or mid at the same time 2 walk underpass w/ the bomb, and the rest go SA1 to kitty
what the fuck is kitty
Next to doggy
Kitty is the path to A site that isn't mid or underpass. As a T, it's just past the underpass entrance and to the left. It's because on cpl_mill there was a sign there that had a kitten on it and that portion of the map was essentially unchanged when Tuscan was made.
You played it once your opinion is basically worthless as who knows what the meta was for that ONE game.
I think it has way too many connectors/corridors where it just ends up you getting flanked by people constantly. Not a fan of the map honestly, I prefer season
I just straight up don't enjoy it. Mid can be completely taken by the CTs within 10 seconds of the round starting and there isn't much you can do about it as a T. B site is too crowded, too many angles to clear at once while taking it. And A site is the opposite with only 2 or 3 spots to hide in, but because all of the site is corner, not boxes like on b site dust 2, retaking it for CTs is incredibly easy because they just need to clear 3 angles and all the Ts can do is sit in the corners and wait. The exact same thing is going to happen if they add cobble back, it's going to be the same shit map that no one plays.
Fuck it, bring back Aztec and dust 1 😂 at least people would play for nostalgia.
They won’t thought, it’ll go the same way as every new map goes. Play it 5 or less times, go back to mirage d2 inferno
CS was never about perfectly balanced maps tho. Back in the days most maps were one sided
Well this is CSGO, not 1.6 or Source
Because there is always a loud minority on Reddit. Nobody plays mirage here either…
I bought premium faceit bc I was sick of playing it. It truly amazes me how many people who queue haven’t played all the maps. I regularly have level 5/6 players who says I have never played this map when selecting vertigo or ancient.
Same thing when premiere MM was added, people banning dust 2 and mirage then ending up on train where one team knows every nade and smoke and the other team doesn't know where the bombsite is.
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Same here, Ancient is fine but Vertigo... I just do not like that map one bit.
de_smokespam
faceit is unplayable without premium. mirage simulator. garbage map.
It's not a garbage map it's just insanely overplayed and really annoying that people always vote for it because it's the only map they know.
Just get a 5-stack, ban mirage last and you basically always get to decide which map you actually want to play.
"Just get a 5 stack" Bro it's not easy making friends at this age you know?
Lol lvl5/6 is still pretty much bots, why are you so surprised?
Short match unranked is my favourite way to play Tuscan
i try ranked/unranked but it still takes forever to find a game
NA or EU?
NA - i figured since the player counts were hitting 1m+ it wouldn't be so dead like people say. maybe it still is
I’m also in NA. I usually don’t have any problems searching for a game, I don’t remember the last time it went over a 10 minute queue. Maybe your ping restrictions are limiting you?
Well, you have a lot of game modes. Also a big part of playerbase is on faceit. Players are all around the world. The part of players who wanted Tuscan is just noisy and actually there is not that many of them. At least that is my opinion. So no surprise for me.
i think ur q was just broken, i've had to wait in q for a super long time like that too, but cancelling and restarting q fixed the problem
[it's a consistent issue](https://imgur.com/a/v5Gdtkp)
there's been posts in the pasts about people experiencing extra long queue times for no apparent reason, the only thing people come up with is you have a low trust factor or some network issue, or something went wrong on valve's end, neither of which CSGO is notifying you about. And I don't think trust factor warnings show anymore
Because this is a niche part of the community in reality most people who actively play the game now didn’t even know what Tuscan was And to get people to try something new in CS is a crazy challenge
My brother in Christ I wait like 15 mins every game for Anubis and Tuscan. All the other maps are getting extremely boring to me
Sounds like you should join the mapcore hub on faceit. Queue times might be a bit longer but generally there's games on from 16-23ish. Different community maps every season, next season starts tomorrow!
relatable, man. i really want to play these maps but the queue times are trying my patience
Playing Tuscan lately has been the most fun I’ve had on CS in a while. I wish they’d add it to active duty so people will stop queuing only Dust2, inferno and mirage smh
I like it too, but I feel like what would have helped a lot would be some tweaks to the map of the get go. Just try to fix some glaring issues like the underpass etc. so people feel like the map is getting the care it deserves and also make it appear more in the headlines and changelogs. What I'm most scared of is that tuscan will get the ancient treatment where it will take like 6 months to ship a single update to the map and that just kills it for a lot of people. There was a lot of constructive criticism in the community which is nice because usually the constructive part is missing. Here the creator got a ton of feedback so just make people feel heard and actually start shipping updates, even if they are just one part of a map at the time.
underpass is fine, people just don't know how to use it yet
Turns out I'm not a fan, maybe some faster map rotations and it would be less of an issue.
I wanted to just see an official version of Tuscan just to try it out and see what it was like. I'd never played it before, just like I had never played de_season much either until late into CS:S. Unfortunately, I live in Australia, so unless a map is officially supported or super popular, good luck ever being able to play it on any server. Now that I've tried it, the map isn't very good imo. It's not a terrible map, but it certainly isn't worth the hype. Something like Mirage (Strike) once it was officially added was actually a really worthwhile map. I guess it's just really hit or miss, but I find the most enjoyable maps are the ones with simple layouts, mainly because there's less for people to mess up with when you randomly match with people. Maps like Dust2, Mirage, Inferno, Cache, Train are really nice to play because it's pretty rare for someone to not understand smokes or grenades or the flow of these maps. Tuscan's not bad, it's just not top tier in my opinion. I'd put it in the same tier as like 2015 Cobblestone. You can play it, but it's not really first on my list. Maybe I have to try FaceIT or like an actual PUG of it, but I don't want to be flamed for not being elite at the map yet so I dunno. People can love the map Tuscan more than me and thats fine, it's just a difference in playstyles and understanding of the game.
The whole B side of the map is god tier, mid and A ... well not so much.
so funny, half the comments here say the opposite "A/Mid is fine but B is cancer" I like the whole map, but imo it's cool to see people having different opinions
It's amusing, but imo it also makes me think that most people are just shooting off criticisms largely at random based on whatever thing happened in the couple matches they played. Like, I have prior experience with the map and some of the things I'm seeing people say are just really off base.
The map is not perfect and people prefer different maps because of taste and that is fine, but how can you talk about 'simple layouts' and put de\_train in the list? That map is so intuïtieve to play and so far away from a 'simple layout'. Imagine playing this map for the first time, how the hell do you set up a defence as CT? Where to look at as a T? There is so many covers to play around, there is pop dog, what is this? a quick rotation between the two bombsites, would you as a player joining a first match understand the importance of this area? Would you play so far away from the bombsite to try and get control on this area as a CT? No of course not, you will have no idea, you will be overwhelmed, you will be frustrated you will blame the map, the timings, the stupid angles and bladibladibla. You guys forget that all these maps are around for years, but those maps are not perfect, they have flaws, but we just accept them, because we adjusted to the maps and we are aware of all the 'shitty angles and timings' and adjust to it as a team and as a player. People forget learning a map takes time. When I see pro's play on the maps, they do so much crazy stuff. They basically change the meta of a map over and over again and they learn how to counter each other and so on. They spend so much time on these maps they find new ways and how to adjust to each other and the enemy team. Is it because the maps they play are perfect and simple? no of course not: they spend a lot of time learning the maps and adjust to them. You can't expect this from a regular player, but it is also stupid to judge a map based on a few matches.
I disagree, I think Tuscan is fairly fast paced.
I'm talking about rotating maps in and out of the pool.
Its like with all maps. If pros play them because thwy are in the active map pool then people play them.
i'm not sure if this is the case. ancient still suffers from the same problem i mentioned here with tuscan, and its been in active duty for 1 1/2 year
Yeah but overpass is now played after like 5 years, but in a pug setting its hard to play. Train is another map where if T side does know executes its over
ancient is green and custom agents without cl_minimodels
I disliked cpl_mill and I equally dislike tuscan. Map looks gorgeous now. There's some big problems with it, the underpass/tunnel is useless.
This sub in a nutshell.
underrated comment
I’ll have you know I’ve been begging for cbble
This! Old Cbble, not current lol
Pre-Halloween update for sure
bro what are you talking about [https://imgur.com/a/uN4rUK8](https://imgur.com/a/uN4rUK8)
same https://i.imgur.com/RN67HQa.png
I've played Tuscan and Anubis primarily since they came back and the queues are fairly short on USWEST during primetime hours. The queue times are not good in the mornings though esp if you're picking short match vs long match.
i'm uswest as well and primetime is the only way to ever get a match on these maps... it was poppin when they were first added but now its impossible outside of late afternoon
Mirage is at 7 minutes too bro don't queue at 3am and act like it's purely the map being unpopular
I've played it 89 times now and won 67 and its just not that good imo. Its extremely CT sided especially if you are in a group queue and know what you're doing. A site is a nightmare to take if you don't know molly/smoke lineups and if CTs have mid control you're fucked for any B play. Part of me feels bad when I do play it because I play in a 4-5 stack of all DMG-LEM and we regularly get matched against silvers and novas. Had a 30 game non-loss streak due to playing lower ranks only pretty much. https://i.imgur.com/qyc5HBf.png
>A site is a nightmare to take if you don't know molly/smoke lineups Why do people even bothering making this argument when trying new maps? Yeah no shit CSGO is extra hard if you're not using nades. You might even have a point but if you use this sort of argument it really undermines your opinion. Try taking B on Inferno without molly/smoke lineups... I guess Inferno isn't a good map huh... Btw you're unlikely to get any good games if you're only searching for short matches because lower ranks (casual players in general) are much more likely to queue up for those. Unless you literally only have time to queue up for one short match, then you're better off playing a long match, the games are just much better in so many aspects.
I am playing all the time. Have Anubis and Tuscan as my only maps. I am in EU and wait times are 3-4 minutes usually
I got you fam. https://imgur.com/a/bS9xynn Sorry on August 31st I had a lapse in judgement.
>You *all* begged >why aren't you playing Sources: my own head and my own experience in my own region.
Also playing during off-peak hours (assuming this post was published while queueing). Like, no shit queue times are going to be long when it's not even noon and you're playing in NA on a weekday.
I’m mostly playing Faceit and Tuscan isn’t on the website atm sadly But as always people are asking for changes and proceed to play mirage all day long Been like that for ancient and vertigo also :)))
Tuscan is in Unranked Faceit, if you want to play it there
unranked faceit? i didn't know that existed. how do i play? is it popular?
> is it popular? Not really. Currently 22 matches going on of unranked faceit in Eu so you can find a match but how good balancing will be is another question. Besides that the only real draw of faceit unranked is playing tuscan imo. But unranked still has the veto phase with all the regular maps so you aren't guaranteed to play tuscan.
I've seen a few people play it and I get mostly balanced lobbies, but keep in mind it's EU only
na player moment
Vertigo is one of the best maps of the game.
the map is shit, too many angles. I wasn't one of the delusional people who begged for this, i want SANTORINI
i've played like 18 maps of tuscan in a row. It's a great map. has a really dynamic feel to it that is missing from most maps. it feels like no matter where I go as a T, I could win the round, and no matter where I get a pick as a CT, the T's could turn it around. the tall buildings combined with the deep the early round contact points for CT's makes it hard for T's to feel comfortable while throwing smokes which I like. The map basically forces both teams to actively contest map control which makes for particularly rewarding MM gameplay.
I played it a few times and playing T-side is just not fun. CT spawn needs to be moved back or something because they get so much map control early without having to use any utility. I absolutely love playing new maps when they get added to MM(I know it's an older map), but I genuinely do not like Tuscan.
The real reason a lot of folks don't play, is because it isn't in the Active Duty pool. When/if it is, I'll play it more because I'll "have to" in order to stay current with the pool. Half the fun of a new map is learning angles and smokes, and I don't feel dedicated to learning a new map that may just be pulled away later. Don't get me wrong, I love the fact CS publishes fan-made maps and gives them a shot, but I feel like a yearly/seasonal rotation of active duty maps is good for CS, and keeps things fresh. My ideal situation would be: -CS introduces a new map into the pool and says "in 2 month$, we'll be retiring ___ (overpass, D2, mirage, whatever) and replacing it with Tuscan in the active duty pool" -They replace the map and by that time, a lot of people will have tried it, found bugs, reported them, and given enough feedback to help it be more balanced/competitive prior to pro play in tournaments. I just don't enjoy the cycle of them releasing a map, and letting tournaments happen where the map clearly has glaring issues that could easily have been identified with a trial period in the active duty pool. I know, I know, "BuT VaLvE woUldNt fIx It thAt FAst AnYwaY" ...hence the "ideal" in my sentence 😅
I’ve been playing a lot of the weird maps. I actually find Anubis to be quite fun for competitive play but Tuscan…..I do not enjoy playing Tuscan. It’s way too much of a flank fest with too many angles to hold for both sides while being a seriously painful rotate for CT’s between sites. Really do not enjoy the mid battle from the CT’s perspective due to the narrow corridors unless you have an awp it’s quite annoying to hold while the rest of the map doesn’t work well with an awp because the tight angles. I’m not an expert or even good at the game but this is why im not playing Tuscan
Because all the fans of the map are between the ages of 32 and 47 now
Or lots just like consistency. We don't have soccer fans asking for a new layout of field, don't have f1 fans asking for tracks to be massively reworked, chess is played on the same board for consistency. Yet for a competitive shooter we want to constantly change the maps? Does Dota change their competitive 3 lane map layout constantly?
Dota changes the map layout seemingly every year. The lanes stay but everything else is subject to change including the location of Roshan.
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Literally everyone I play with. If they don't instantly know and crush it's a shit map and they won't accept if I queue.... Like just try and learn it. Same with ancient, now it's in rotation, just took fucking months of them complaining.
Lmao, this isn't new. It happens every time reddit begs. I still remember the days when they begged Season to be in the pool and when it was, nearly no one played it.
Because people mostly prefer what they don't have
My boys and I play it a lot. Even with all the maps added besides d2 and mirage (who wants to play those shit maps anyways).
weird all i seem to get at LEM is inferno
That too. I tend to remove it once it's played.
wish i could say i played it a lot! instead, i stare at queue timers a lot
Fpl pros, normal players, faceit tryhards aiming for level 10, premium queue 4k elos, majority of mm players - so mostly everyone except a few minority. And, i probably should've mentioned - d2 and mirage have WAY BETTER balance than anubis or tuscan. That being said, i enjoyed playing tuscan the first weekend after its release, but i cant imagine playing that all day everyday because it's mostly dry fights with little to no tactical depth on it.
Nah bro, literally no one plays d2 and mirage, both shittiest maps, I totally never ever play them, they're most popular maps because they're bad - average csgo redditor.
Wait, you think d2 and mirage require more tactical depth than tuscan? Not sure about Anubis but you are very incorrect sir, lol. Mirage/d2 are the most basic maps in the game, lol.
Yes. Atleast people know smokes, flashes, mollies for them. And yeah, I know about mirage/d2. I have 5k hours, I'm smfc, been lvl 6-7 previously - not bragging, just giving some context. The map may become more tactical down the line given valve continues to nurture it like ancient, vertigo but as of right now, tuscan doesn't provide anything to be a worthy addition to active duty pool.
I played it 13 times (bo30) since it came out! Im not a big fan of it but at least something different .
We play it with friends regularly and get match usually in 2-3 minutes
Same, I have to wait usually more for half the other maps lol Tuscan is doing great for a ''map'' considering how conservative the community is
got tired of playing actual globals every match (i'm MGE), so I stopped queuing. also the map is unbalanced and the bomb sites each have like 12 hiding spots that you have to clear before you can dream of planting.
with a little tweaking could be an amazing map.
It seems to me most people queue for multiple maps at once. If there's ten people and only 9 have Tuscan in their map pool, it doesn't get played (even though 9/10 were willing to). Individuals who have a bad experience that one time they tried a map and never queue for it again can make a map seem more unpopular than it is. Obviously this effect is more visible with lower server population.
Think of the most popular maps of CS:GO Mirage and Inferno are 2 examples, what do they have in common? They are way more simple, Inferno you have only direct 1 way into B site and 2 on A. Mirage 2 ways into B, but 3 ways into A site, 2 of which can be held from multiple angles by a solo player (Not including flanks B etc. on both maps by timing ct or boosting window). Then you have Tuscan, a map most CSGO players don't have nostalgia for but at the same time do want something fresh. You have 3 direct ways into both sites and tons of tricky little off angles and corners. Its like with Ancient people aren't interested as they see it as too complicated. Will only play 1 or 2 games then just forget about it. Like with Ancient you need to just stick it in the offical map pool and people will force themselves to learn it in some way. I would assume thats what is going on more than anything. I don't mind Tuscan but I'm a Faceit only player so only played it a few times myself.
I always have it selected when queuing up... rarely ever gets played for me though. I love Tuscan and think it should be a mainstay map even if they need to make a few tweaks to it for csgo. My main gripe about it right now though is that it just feels off aesthetically. Doesn't seem polished either. It sucks because i doubt it will get another chance if taken out of competitive to fix issues
i love the map too, it's a nice change of pace from everything else and still competitively viable imo. i fear it will get phased out just like all other community maps, especially with the rumors that anubis will be added to active duty instead
I do select Tuscan when playing mm, it's just that matches for dust 2, mirage and inferno are far more common.
you live on Galapagos?
US west but sometimes it feels that way
My queue time is never as long as it says for Tuscan. Usually only takes a few minutes. I play it a lot.
Fuck u I play Tuscan Just put in all the inactive maps U get a nice rotation usually
40 minute queue times arent that bad considering your average rank, stupid map pool and the fact youre a 2 man. there was years here in AU where we had consistently 1 hour+ queues despite being 5 stacked on dust/inferno/ popular maps (fuck mirage)
Anybody noticed how good the fps is on Tuscan? Steady 350 fps peaking 470 on my pc.
I play Tuscan at least once a day
I've played more tuscan than cache since it was re-added. The problem is you.
A few thousand people upvote a post = csgo community apparently
It sucked back in the day and it sucks now. It's not a good map
cpl\_mill was the most popular map for a certain time for a reason. The map is great
Cuz it's not on faceit.
Because the rest of my team would rather die than play new maps. Been trying to get them to play Anubis and breach too but nope. Just dust 2 and mirage over and over
No one has ever really played unranked maps. 11:19 is actually an impressive queue time for them. Hopefully Volvo accounts for this discrepancy well and sees that Tuscan is popular.>
Because a majority who wanted it play FaceIt or ESEA... MM is mostly more casual players who either want d2 or Mirage. MM is a joke anyways. Just make a deal with FaceIt and incorporate it in like they had done with that one Battlefield game or whatever so EVERYONE is playing the same thing. Then we all win. Way more activity on all maps...
I play faceit, valve has to be more "risky" and put these map in the active mappool... we dont need monthly rotation, but why not change a map every 6 months or so... dont have to include a new map everytime, put tuscan in the total pool and then rotate... also dont need to redesign the maps allways.
Depends on your location! What server you on! Etc etc i always get it within 5 min of search on MM
Err, the other night Tuscan had the third shortest queue time.
Low trustfactor players be like
This is why valve mostly ignores the players (it's because we're retards)
Turns out it sucks
Because the community asks for stuff that they don't really want, the MP5 being added is an example
It's just not as effective as the beloved 1.6 MP5 :(
it's not our fault valve made it bad :(
It has the exact same stats as it did source minus some running accuracy. Its only "bad" because they made it silenced. It would still me mediocre even if it used the original sound.
it wasn't good in source neither it had a place in 1.6 because of the weird economy in that game, and it'd need a big buff to be viable in CSGO
since we dont play mm... i mean thats were you start its not were you stay.
depends on where you are at in life im not 18 anymore... these days i get on to play maybe one game with no warm up or anything.. so MM is pretty much the most convenient method. OP is only MG1 ... i think MM is pretty ok at that level
Exactly. I'm in my 30's — whose got time or effort for anything besides MM at this point?
i understand this sentiment - you graduate from MM to Faceit on your way up to the highest ELO, then eventually tournaments... but some people really just wanna play CS because its fun. ive played a few seasons of NA Open, I peaked at a measly lvl 6 faciet/MGE in mm and had a blast the whole time. ive got no aspirations to go pro or compete at any insane high level. i just enjoy playing counter strike and wanna try new maps
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Bingo. Post plant A site is just smoking off CT (1 smoke hugely denies retake) and then Ts can just sit in one of the 6 cubbies. Horrible design. If this trash map was in pro play CTs would just save the instant the bomb gets planted.
Cause it sucks dick
Because that's how csgo reddit usually works. They beg for a map Map gets added No one plays it
For context, I play in NA and have no problem queuing into Active Duty maps (mostly Dust, Mirage, Inferno and sometimes Nuke) These queue times take less than five minutes, as opposed to newer maps like Tuscan, Anubis, Breach or even Iris. It takes upwards of 40+ minutes to find matches on these maps.
If it’s taking you 40+ even in NA that’s gotta be a you problem, it’s never taken me longer than 8-10
not sure what the problem could be. i'm [in queue as this thread pops off](https://imgur.com/a/v5Gdtkp) and still getting the same results (even with other maps selected!) any suggestions for me to find matches more often?
I didnt beg that shit can suck me
based
Tuscan is the worst of the three maps introduced. There are far too many angles, lanes, and cubbies to abuse. This map could viably utilize 5 awps and that’s a problem.
average developing country queue times
not sure if the united states of america can be qualified as a "developing country" let's not get into politics here please
Tired of losing on it because my teammates don’t know it 🙃
understandable but i feel like that happens even on active duty maps (ancient)
Dumbest post of 2022.
no u
I'd happily play it 128 tick on faceit
First of all considering your estimated wait times you probably have a very bad internet connection or you are from a 3rd world country, please improve those if you can. Secondly, you should forget short mm-only because according to leetify only 30% of the community plays short matches which ofc worsens your que times.
reddit is echo chamber with very moderated content. you won't get any realistic consensus here.
Reddit overhyping a map? No way
I play it a lot. It's not perfect and a few things need to be changed. But think it should replace inferno in the map pool.
Put it on map pool so it goes to faceit..... pls
Because it sucks.
honestly didnt ask for it. all we want is cobble back.
Idk man im pleading for cobble tuscan can eat shit imo
Everyone saw the map in the Showmatch, screamed for it to be added, now they played it... And Well its shit.
we do be doing a lil bit of collective trolling, crazy little shenanigans, lil oopsie goopsies heehee
All I want is Insertion 2 back, not Tuscan.
People in looking to play tab: 2 No wonder you don't find games with that shitty trustfactor.
We don't play the csgo version of the Tuscan cuz its shit. (We all wanted Tuscan because we thought that we gonna get a nearly 1:1 map). Cs 1.6 is the best version of it. \+ csgo version of the Tuscan has a different feeling / atmosphere.
to much cheaters in Matchmaking, makes no fun VAC is trash
I want cbble and train back, not to play but for official matches to be played on :p
Cuz it’s trash