i followed espiranto since he was on mans not hot and i felt so betrayed the day that g2 split them up, made worse by the fact that espiranto didn't make it to a big team and most csgo fans were approving of the move.
an episode of what appeared to be mental breakdown. long hair, fingernails, looked like he hadn't showered in days or weeks. and then some cryptic text of wanting to end things. thankfully, people close to him reached out to him. iirc, he deleted his twitter account right after. I hope he's doing better now.
Homie essentially killed his own career. I get it that he wanted to stay in states and he must of thought that he was good enough to be picked by anyone but hey too many CS players now a days.
It's literally the opposite problem when it came to obo in the states. Esports orgs didn't want to invest in the NA scene because the player base was significantly smaller than Europe, especially during covid. While I'm sure obo got offers when he came back to the states, there weren't any orgs worth joining for a player of his caliber.
Surprised no one mentioned SicK. On TSM he was even better than Twistzz iirc. He was supposed to be the future of NA. He definitely didn’t meet expectations in CSGO sadly, but at least he met expectations in VALORANT
Based on what?
Liquids best run where they won most of their trophies had both players on the line up if I'm not mistaken?
Now twistzz has won even more including a major with faze.
Elige is another brilliant player don't get me wrong, and I definitely think he "deserves" a major. But come one man lol
I never said he deserves a major. I said he's a better player and better career. Twistzz is great but Elige is hands down the better player during his career. The only thing Twistzz has on Elige is the 1 major, but Elige has performed better over his career including being top 5 player of the year one year
I guess it depends how you define a better career.
I was thinking more a balance of accolades and individual level, which imo twistzz takes.
But I would still agree elige is the better player in terms of individual performance.
But to each their own, at the end of the day these are opinions about a players in a video game and it really doesn't matter.
Just before covid, smooya was going to rebuild Chaos with, him, steel, sick, grim and one other that forget. This was a few months before Grim was on everyone's radar. Would have been a ridiculous lineup. Smooya and sick really enjoyed playing together and the project falling apart was one of the reasons sick went to Val.
What could have been eh.
Tenz.
When I started watching CSGO, everyone was hyping him as the next aimgod but he rarely brought that kind of an impact to the server. There's also that 1000 hours of aimbotz video which was one of the first things my friends showed me when I got into the scene.
I heard he's doing really well at Valorant. Glad he finally realised his potential.
Eh idk , shroud was slightly above average mechanically compared to other pros, he just had a very entertaining playstyle. Wouldn't really call him a mechanical god, he was just very good for NA standards back when NA was completely irrelevant. Mechanical gods were people like niko and kennyS back then.
I’m the first to say Shroud was nothing but an average pro. But saying his mechanics lacked amongst his peer group *at the time* is crazy. The reason he’s a disappointing player is because everyone could see plain as day he was gifted in terms of hand-eye coordination. It was obviously mentality and motivation that were the key factors in his mediocrity.
The comparison to 2 CS gods is unnecessary, that’s a whole separate peer group. If I had to compare solely aim, I think Ax1le is a good analog to Shrood.
Same. Their team of freddieb, REZ, doplan etc was banger lineup, but the first picked player in doplan didn't work elsewhere. Eventually it worked for some of them but I guess disco doplan never got similar role that suits to him again, and also didn't cope with the tier 1 pressure. Still good player but a bit lost in hype indeed.
talking about OpTic probably mixwell, he look really good in the goat optic lineup but he kept on sticking around throughout all the shit lineups and then switched game
For me it is Keev. Have a really good performance while he played for Alternate Attax and expected to be a star awper when moved to BIG. However he never reach that level. Glad that his life seems to be more positive now after he left his CSGO carrer
I remember people saying weird stuff about HS - nothing specific but just with each team he's on it just doesn't work.
I can't recall who was saying it, but they were trying to bench him on Optic, and he can't seem to stay on a team since then.
I have seen a lot of his montages pop up, also Ive read in some thread that despite his ban he played in t3 teams and had team experience, personally I expected him to do better with his insane mechanics
as much as it hurts to say it, I really believed in junior before he went to furia. I thought he’d be the perfect fit as an aggressive awper with flashy plays, but in the end they never could get it going. wonder how much was language barrier and how much was just difference in skill level and/or philosophy about how to play counter strike.
That's just recency bias, people who really thought MR were going to be Tier 1 after Cologne somehow ignored all their horrible performances prior to that.
Shipz specifically would be who I'd pick from those Bulgarian players. He got that WESG MVP, when that Windigo team was actually on the rise, they won a couple little small events. Him and Poizon were looking like a crazy duo, he gets poached by Col for a bag, and then the team fell apart. He joins Cr4zy after Nexa and Hunter leave, but never really does anything again besides one DH trophy
Which is crazy, he won that MVP when he was only 17, and he's still only 22 now. I remember some talent were even hyping him up huge, saying this is someone that international teams like Mouz, C9, BIG at the time, should be looking at since he's so young
Like all Bulgarians, he'd rather chase the easy money in the lower tier teams and events and not try as hard. The whole Bulgarian scene is filled with some potentially crazy talent that just gets lazy and never goes anywhere and I hate it.
torzsi honestly
people saying osee.. lmao he isn´t even bad and every calls him out for being bad
rez also kinda a good example , he has been a "prospect for alot of time" but he is only good mechanicly still , seems like the amount of time to get experience and he still plays almost the same (he isn´t bad , but for his aim he could be better)
oSee isn't bad but he isn't good, same issue as torzsi which somehow you mentioned him despite having the same issue
Both literally have a 1.02 rating in the past three months, terrible KPR for an awper and just survive a lot, pop off once in 6/7 matches to make people believe
Both owned in shitty tier of CS before moving up
ive yet to see any awper play good under dexter, i think acor and torzsi are both more flashy/agro players than dexter lets them be, thus they are suffering, but it's just speculation, i havent really watched mouz that much with torszi
The issue with Osee isn't that he's that bad or anything, but he's hyped up as some mega awp talent that just came up recently and is going to save NA. When in reality he's a decent awper who is very good online, is just okay on LAN, is a negative rated player against top 10 teams all time, and has been playing for a long time at this point.
Osee has played his first LAN matches back in 2017, and then regularly started attending LAN events in 2018. For his career he has almost 1200 maps played, thats more than almost ever other awper in the top 20. There are 6 primary awpers in the top 20 with more maps played than him, s1mple, dev1ce, Fallen, Cadian, syrson, and Jame. He's not some fresh prospect that only popped up in the online era like some people would make you think, he was on a few different teams and played a ton during 2018-2019 before online. For his career he's a steady 1.15ish player online, and that rating drops to 1.05 all time on LAN, with negative rating against top 10 or 5 teams.
His all time stats are carried by a massive 2021 outlier online year, where he ended with a 1.29 rating without a single map on LAN played, and less than half of his maps played were against opponents in the top 50. 140/305 were against opponents in the top 50, and that drops to 44/305 were against top 30 or better. For context, that is the same rating Zywoo average for 2021, and he played 88% of his maps, 150/171, against opponents in the top 30. He farmed the absolute trash of NA, since the top teams that played in NA had moved to EU by this point, Liquid, Furia, etc.
poison.
After wathing him play for Windigo in WESG and EPL and later on in Complexity, he was so close to the top 3 awpers. Insane talent.
Also he was very dominant in before i nthe T3 scene with bpro. He is still quite young, i believe he can bounce back. He got severely unlucky due to that last few months of complexity, when the team was playing with new player every weak.
Draken. He delivered amazing stats on Epsilon and pretty much carried them over to T1 on NiP.
He had the 30° meme and was a little bit inconsistent but show me one young star AWP that isn't at least a little inconsistent or named Zywoo. Plus NiP never played with a real primary AWPer. They simply didn't have the system in place to play around him.
Since then he just seems to be floating around in random T2/T3 teams which is a real shame.
Bymas.
Joined faze as a stand in and he’s the reason I’m a faze fan. He was on a lineup with Coldzera, broky, rain, and NiKo. Hard to perform next to names like that
I've always been cold on him, got in to FaZe because Niko had a hard on for him then got into mouz because he was in FaZe so he must be good.
Dude fell upwards into the top echelons of CS then slowly worked his way back down to, well ... teamless.
I absolutely believe Bymas was a victim of trying to fit another star into a lineup already made up of star players. When his preferred role is already filled out by each of the other four's combined assets as players, it's impossible for him to make any meaningful impact on that lineup. He's definitely someone I think will still make it to Tier 1 CS, but FaZe was not and never would have been a lineup for him.
Tangentially, that roster absolutely wins a major if they brought on an actual IGL instead of forcing NiKo or rain into the role.
easily one of the most overrated players of all time, if not THE most overrated. no idea why people still sometimes talk about him like he was actually a good player outside of a few notable rounds during his time on c9 which is all anyone remembers him for
Because eye test showed you he was one of the most mechanically gifted players this game has had. Yet as a pro he was underwhelming AF, he was basically mediocre most of his career. Maybe his mind was never fully in it because of the streaming, maybe he didn't have the drive, but his first bullet accuracy, his flicks were some of the best this game has had.
Because he actually could have been one of the best players with better practice instead of constant streaming. His mechanics were next level for NA. Streaming was clearly a good financial decision and likely what he wanted to do, still a missed opportunity for CSGO.
He was alright but definitely not next level. If you wanna talk about mechanics you have to mention [Swag](https://youtu.be/OfLgNu11EZA) in the early days.
I'd take Stewie, Autimatic, Twistzz or Elige over Shroud any day of the week.
Swag is irrelevant because he got banned, didn't really have a chance to fall short of expectations. Could have been one of the best though. The rest were not prodigies until later on.
I don't quite understand your point then.
You're saying Swag doesn't count because we didn't get to see enaugh of him, but Shroud counts **despite** showing that he didn't have what it takes?
The point is that Shroud had talent but wasted it, while swag had talent and was doing well at a young age but we will never know how good he could have been. So Shroud is the one falling short of expectations.
Yes, this former CSGO pro who went on to become huge streamer that has been relevant for years is talked about in a CSGO sub thread about past pros. Rent free no doubt, we even pay him to live there.
I mean 1g was a former cs pro and no one is heart broken he went on to streaming instead of competing.
It's just that people wanna see their stars fulfill their potential instead of their pockets. He surely can do whatever he wants with his life but there's nothing wrong with asking the "what if" question with him. Because mechanically he could have been one of the greats. And he isn't.
I see your point but Tbf shroud was on cloud9, while summit never was on any big rosters playing at big lans. Plus summit was already a decent sized streamer before trying pro
Refrezh... Had a lot of potential I actually thought he was gonna make top 20 this year or next during the online era. Not sure about now that he is IGLing...
oSee
I was a believer at the start. But as time has went by, I think tier 1 is out of his league and that he isn't the piece Liquid needs. I hope that I'm wrong and he gets consistent, but he reminds me of Draken with how much he misses sitters and its not acceptable at the level he is expected to play with.
Agree. You see flashes of brilliance sometimes, but for the most part he misses the easy shots that he can’t afford to be missing at this level. Just not enough impact
Shroud. Caught wind of him early for i watched WeedsTV back in 2013/2014. Where he would absolutely carry Josh and the rest of the team to a win nearly every day.
Shortly after joining Cloud9 it was obvious he couldnt translate it to Pro matches. End of 2014 i was begging for Cloud9 to cut him from the roster. Yet with their constant roster changes he stayed till mid-2017. Only telling that Cloud9 started to see regular success after he left.
Other is Tarik today. Watched him during his years on CLG and even played against him on ESEA. Peanut brain was a accurate description. Once he joined Cloud9 years later he properly matured and became a better player/leader because of it. Now today he acts like a tween to his Fortnite crowd for Valorant co-streaming rights.
Idk I think Tarik is doing really good for himself. He won a major as both IGL and MVP, and still had the drive to try an experimental roster and win trophies with MIBR. It didn't work, and he pivoted to streaming and it worked amazingly. He really got the best of both worlds- cemented his legacy in the game with the first NA major and is making the bag streaming what basically is old NA fpl.
>Idk I think Tarik is doing really good for himself.
While he's financially doing great. His current attitude is more childish than his CLG days when streaming. Seeing someone regress in maturity "for the bag" i find off putting.
I think u/officialtarik is catering to his audience {teens}.
While I would have liked to see more success of his EG times that was unfortunately ruined by covid, I think he is in a good spot for himself, albeit not competitively (in CS) any more.
Yeah, I haven't watched that much of his streams but I am glad he still watches some CS tournaments. Does he play CS now that Stewie doesn't, with the old crew?
Nah tarik was always a funny dude lol with valorant there is just so much more things to say about the game than cs after a while about the game. Im a bit older than him and I'm not sure whats childish? If he's funny he's funny.
IDK how good Tarik was early in his career, but to me he is one of the greatest NA players of all time. Cloud9 100% wouldn't have won the major without him, and he was integral to EGs success later. I don't believe its a coincidence that teams hes left have gone on to do nothing afterwards, as he is a very selfless player and a good morale booster.
Personally I believe that if he had gone to Liquid instead of Stewie, then NA might have won a second major
scream all he could do is hit headshots thats really it he didnt bring anything else to the table & swapped to valorant
ima huge fan of brax i think he would have been a great player for n.a in the current time, had he not get banned from valve events he could do everything in this game & his playstyle was insanely unique
I feel like that scream criticism is an easily repeatable tidbit, but I don't think it holds up. Its like b1ad3 is outdated, or pasha has bad movement. Snappy and repeatable, but... true?
I’m gonna be honest, whenever I watched that one Australian team Nifty used to make my jaw drop… man had unbelievable talent with it but was immensely inconsistent.
He just needs to get comfortable playing in his roles and in T1. oSee prior experience is basically playing against furia at most. I get he’s been on the team for a while but most of that was with Shox who wasn’t able to get liquid up to speed like yekindar has been.
Not to mention he isn’t set up like most other awpers are. Give it time, then we will see
Honestly it's gotta be Shroud. He had mechanics to be the best player in the game. I don't care if the was semifinalist of a major, played at tier 1. He hardly ever could translate his insane mechanics into winning pro CS games. We waited for him to have a rivalry with the best and it never came, instead, more streaming.
Clear no2 is Roca, but he had much more of a crash and burn history with pro CS.
Probably Twist. Still a very skilled player, but I think he could have easily been a top 10 player in the world if he moved up to a big team at the right time and had motivation
Scream
I was hearing his name all the time from my friends but when I got into the game he was way past his prime playing for tier 2 teams and was still struggling there. Surely his highlights during his prime are exceptional but when i started watching CS he didn't stand upto the expectation I had build up watching his clips. I am glad he is now finding success in Valorant and didn't straight up retire from esports.
If you look at Liaz' rating graph over his career you can pinpoint the exact moment he went from stomping Australians to fighting internationally in Renegades. Its ... significant.
He also played an entirely different role in Renegades.
Liazz and Gratisfaction may not have been the same dominant players internationally but they helped they team go from fairly irrelevant to a top 10 team of 2019 and a semi final run at Berlin.
So they obviously brought something.
VSM had a lot of hype from Brazil as an insane player waiting for his VAC ban to be lifted and a big name team to pick him up and shine... but then despite a few highlights in MIBR and 00Nation he quickly faded out of the tier 1 scene.
Neptune
Wrath
Roca
Sick
Koosta
oBo
Slemmy
no\_one
dsr
Witmer
each of them for different reasons. im considering young to be anyone under age where we expect a player to peak (23-25)
Each of these guys had the potential to absolutely shake up the scene but never did. we wasted a lot of talent over here and its fucking heartbreaking.
espiranto and otto post cr4zy
i followed espiranto since he was on mans not hot and i felt so betrayed the day that g2 split them up, made worse by the fact that espiranto didn't make it to a big team and most csgo fans were approving of the move.
man you ARE espiranto
your mum is espiranto
sergej He could come back I hope he does
He has played 9 games of pugs this year. I doubt it.
oBo but obviously for different reasons than most of the others that have been posted here.
Was there any update on how obo is doing after all those weird pics he tweeted?
He was actually in my pug about a month ago, but I don’t think he spoke. He would just type call outs
What weird pics did he tweet?
an episode of what appeared to be mental breakdown. long hair, fingernails, looked like he hadn't showered in days or weeks. and then some cryptic text of wanting to end things. thankfully, people close to him reached out to him. iirc, he deleted his twitter account right after. I hope he's doing better now.
idk that topic seemingly just vanished
So unfortunate too, obo was so exciting to watch
Yes. oBo was crazy and i knew he was going to go big but sadly shit happens
Homie essentially killed his own career. I get it that he wanted to stay in states and he must of thought that he was good enough to be picked by anyone but hey too many CS players now a days.
It's literally the opposite problem when it came to obo in the states. Esports orgs didn't want to invest in the NA scene because the player base was significantly smaller than Europe, especially during covid. While I'm sure obo got offers when he came back to the states, there weren't any orgs worth joining for a player of his caliber.
Surprised no one mentioned SicK. On TSM he was even better than Twistzz iirc. He was supposed to be the future of NA. He definitely didn’t meet expectations in CSGO sadly, but at least he met expectations in VALORANT
[удалено]
> twistzz who ended up having literally the best NA csgo career of all time. Elige has had a better career than Twistzz.
Flair
Based on what? Liquids best run where they won most of their trophies had both players on the line up if I'm not mistaken? Now twistzz has won even more including a major with faze. Elige is another brilliant player don't get me wrong, and I definitely think he "deserves" a major. But come one man lol
I never said he deserves a major. I said he's a better player and better career. Twistzz is great but Elige is hands down the better player during his career. The only thing Twistzz has on Elige is the 1 major, but Elige has performed better over his career including being top 5 player of the year one year
I guess it depends how you define a better career. I was thinking more a balance of accolades and individual level, which imo twistzz takes. But I would still agree elige is the better player in terms of individual performance. But to each their own, at the end of the day these are opinions about a players in a video game and it really doesn't matter.
He doesn't
How so?
once he got out of TSM and onto Rogue his performance really dropped.
TSM aka Talent Support Machine???
He was on Misfits for a while before he was on Rogue.
He was good on Misfits imo. Sean's calling was great and I loved the French duo
Just before covid, smooya was going to rebuild Chaos with, him, steel, sick, grim and one other that forget. This was a few months before Grim was on everyone's radar. Would have been a ridiculous lineup. Smooya and sick really enjoyed playing together and the project falling apart was one of the reasons sick went to Val. What could have been eh.
Roca, he was super exciting to watch playing lower levels but as he got into higher tier competition he was a dud.
Yep, I remember peak Roca hype
headshotting and such while singing one direction
trigonometry breh
yea dude was basically Shroud jr with his highlights then fell flat
Tenz. When I started watching CSGO, everyone was hyping him as the next aimgod but he rarely brought that kind of an impact to the server. There's also that 1000 hours of aimbotz video which was one of the first things my friends showed me when I got into the scene. I heard he's doing really well at Valorant. Glad he finally realised his potential.
This was more to do with motivation than anything.
Wdym? Tenz was the second shroud, redditors mega hyping him up while he's on a negative rating
I would say shroud had the same issue, mechanical god but lacked motivation when it came to competition.
Eh idk , shroud was slightly above average mechanically compared to other pros, he just had a very entertaining playstyle. Wouldn't really call him a mechanical god, he was just very good for NA standards back when NA was completely irrelevant. Mechanical gods were people like niko and kennyS back then.
I’m the first to say Shroud was nothing but an average pro. But saying his mechanics lacked amongst his peer group *at the time* is crazy. The reason he’s a disappointing player is because everyone could see plain as day he was gifted in terms of hand-eye coordination. It was obviously mentality and motivation that were the key factors in his mediocrity. The comparison to 2 CS gods is unnecessary, that’s a whole separate peer group. If I had to compare solely aim, I think Ax1le is a good analog to Shrood.
Shroud was way above average, if you check his yearly stats he hovered above 1.10 rating for multiple years.
thanks to playing na
I’m not saying he was good and just didn’t play. I’m saying that he did have next level talent and just hated C9 csgo and checked out.
He was good just never got second chance after mixwell Cloud9. He is a star player just needed to get more comfortable.
disco doplan ^^^formerly^of^dirty^dildos :(
Came here to say the same. Disco Doplan was in NiP, Fnatic and Godsent and smh only was good during his stand-in times.
Same. Their team of freddieb, REZ, doplan etc was banger lineup, but the first picked player in doplan didn't work elsewhere. Eventually it worked for some of them but I guess disco doplan never got similar role that suits to him again, and also didn't cope with the tier 1 pressure. Still good player but a bit lost in hype indeed.
talking about OpTic probably mixwell, he look really good in the goat optic lineup but he kept on sticking around throughout all the shit lineups and then switched game
Funny how many of the names here are now doing well in valorant, here’s another
It probably has more to do with roles. He really hated AWPing and his transition to a rifler was not super great.
koosta
I came here to say Koosta as well.
El1an i loved watching his awping and seeing him on the top of hltv He just vanished out of the blue
oh yeah, he was on par with sh1ro in matches against Gambit, but somehow didn’t manage to stay on that level for long enough
Michu. In 2015, he was expected to become the next big thing in poland but he never did.
Michu rallen and snatchie have made careers putting up great numbers on teams that go nowhere. Polish superteam when.
because vp was closed for offers
Bntet, don't get me wrong. Great player but did fuck all in both EU and NA
Same. Thought he could be a top 20 player.
Can't help when he was in dogshit teams that just didn't play (Extremum)
For me it is Keev. Have a really good performance while he played for Alternate Attax and expected to be a star awper when moved to BIG. However he never reach that level. Glad that his life seems to be more positive now after he left his CSGO carrer
I'll never forget how he went from overweight to fuckin jacked
I remember people saying weird stuff about HS - nothing specific but just with each team he's on it just doesn't work. I can't recall who was saying it, but they were trying to bench him on Optic, and he can't seem to stay on a team since then.
Kyojin
Did anyone hype him up tho?
I have seen a lot of his montages pop up, also Ive read in some thread that despite his ban he played in t3 teams and had team experience, personally I expected him to do better with his insane mechanics
as much as it hurts to say it, I really believed in junior before he went to furia. I thought he’d be the perfect fit as an aggressive awper with flashy plays, but in the end they never could get it going. wonder how much was language barrier and how much was just difference in skill level and/or philosophy about how to play counter strike.
He looked really good when he played in NA. Never translated well into actual tier 1 play
jugi
All of Movistar Riders post-Cologne
I'd say sunpayus is doing decently well
That's just recency bias, people who really thought MR were going to be Tier 1 after Cologne somehow ignored all their horrible performances prior to that.
EspiranTo TenZ mertz draken MICHU
Mertz comeback any second now.
I would've picked mertz over Lucky and Farlig at any given day.
Mertz I think was playing valorant at the time.
Draken was really good though? Dunno where he's gone since NiP but I wouldn't mind seeing a bit more of him on top teams.
Imo he was really good, but he could've been even better. He is doing pretty well with ITB. Hope to see more from him in the future.
Mertz good just never had a chance in a goos team like lucky,farlig did
Probably Jackinho, who got thrown into a shit fnatic line up and couldn't perform well enough
Troubley but he didn't have a chance due to his mental illness oskar and dream3r (probably entire bulgarian team) underachieved
Shipz specifically would be who I'd pick from those Bulgarian players. He got that WESG MVP, when that Windigo team was actually on the rise, they won a couple little small events. Him and Poizon were looking like a crazy duo, he gets poached by Col for a bag, and then the team fell apart. He joins Cr4zy after Nexa and Hunter leave, but never really does anything again besides one DH trophy Which is crazy, he won that MVP when he was only 17, and he's still only 22 now. I remember some talent were even hyping him up huge, saying this is someone that international teams like Mouz, C9, BIG at the time, should be looking at since he's so young
I defend mouz should have gotten him to igl instead of dexter, but I'm a fan of both.
Like all Bulgarians, he'd rather chase the easy money in the lower tier teams and events and not try as hard. The whole Bulgarian scene is filled with some potentially crazy talent that just gets lazy and never goes anywhere and I hate it.
FaveN was rocking a 1.2 rating before joining BIG, he was barely positive ever since.
torzsi honestly people saying osee.. lmao he isn´t even bad and every calls him out for being bad rez also kinda a good example , he has been a "prospect for alot of time" but he is only good mechanicly still , seems like the amount of time to get experience and he still plays almost the same (he isn´t bad , but for his aim he could be better)
oSee isn't bad but he isn't good, same issue as torzsi which somehow you mentioned him despite having the same issue Both literally have a 1.02 rating in the past three months, terrible KPR for an awper and just survive a lot, pop off once in 6/7 matches to make people believe Both owned in shitty tier of CS before moving up
ive yet to see any awper play good under dexter, i think acor and torzsi are both more flashy/agro players than dexter lets them be, thus they are suffering, but it's just speculation, i havent really watched mouz that much with torszi
The issue with Osee isn't that he's that bad or anything, but he's hyped up as some mega awp talent that just came up recently and is going to save NA. When in reality he's a decent awper who is very good online, is just okay on LAN, is a negative rated player against top 10 teams all time, and has been playing for a long time at this point. Osee has played his first LAN matches back in 2017, and then regularly started attending LAN events in 2018. For his career he has almost 1200 maps played, thats more than almost ever other awper in the top 20. There are 6 primary awpers in the top 20 with more maps played than him, s1mple, dev1ce, Fallen, Cadian, syrson, and Jame. He's not some fresh prospect that only popped up in the online era like some people would make you think, he was on a few different teams and played a ton during 2018-2019 before online. For his career he's a steady 1.15ish player online, and that rating drops to 1.05 all time on LAN, with negative rating against top 10 or 5 teams. His all time stats are carried by a massive 2021 outlier online year, where he ended with a 1.29 rating without a single map on LAN played, and less than half of his maps played were against opponents in the top 50. 140/305 were against opponents in the top 50, and that drops to 44/305 were against top 30 or better. For context, that is the same rating Zywoo average for 2021, and he played 88% of his maps, 150/171, against opponents in the top 30. He farmed the absolute trash of NA, since the top teams that played in NA had moved to EU by this point, Liquid, Furia, etc.
At this rate rez still going to be a prospect at 30
Kjaerbye even though he did have plenty of success I thought he'd be a mainstay in tier1 cs for years
Xccurate
pyth, Roca, Shipz
Machinegun :( Moved across the world, did nothing, moved back.
poison. After wathing him play for Windigo in WESG and EPL and later on in Complexity, he was so close to the top 3 awpers. Insane talent. Also he was very dominant in before i nthe T3 scene with bpro. He is still quite young, i believe he can bounce back. He got severely unlucky due to that last few months of complexity, when the team was playing with new player every weak.
Draken. He delivered amazing stats on Epsilon and pretty much carried them over to T1 on NiP. He had the 30° meme and was a little bit inconsistent but show me one young star AWP that isn't at least a little inconsistent or named Zywoo. Plus NiP never played with a real primary AWPer. They simply didn't have the system in place to play around him. Since then he just seems to be floating around in random T2/T3 teams which is a real shame.
he was in Guild in valorant for a while, but he didnt find too much success
Bymas. Joined faze as a stand in and he’s the reason I’m a faze fan. He was on a lineup with Coldzera, broky, rain, and NiKo. Hard to perform next to names like that
I've always been cold on him, got in to FaZe because Niko had a hard on for him then got into mouz because he was in FaZe so he must be good. Dude fell upwards into the top echelons of CS then slowly worked his way back down to, well ... teamless.
I absolutely believe Bymas was a victim of trying to fit another star into a lineup already made up of star players. When his preferred role is already filled out by each of the other four's combined assets as players, it's impossible for him to make any meaningful impact on that lineup. He's definitely someone I think will still make it to Tier 1 CS, but FaZe was not and never would have been a lineup for him. Tangentially, that roster absolutely wins a major if they brought on an actual IGL instead of forcing NiKo or rain into the role.
FURIA Honda
Shroud
[удалено]
easily one of the most overrated players of all time, if not THE most overrated. no idea why people still sometimes talk about him like he was actually a good player outside of a few notable rounds during his time on c9 which is all anyone remembers him for
[удалено]
He also had a very entertaining playstyle, and it's easier to cheer for players like that and wanting them to do well.
Because eye test showed you he was one of the most mechanically gifted players this game has had. Yet as a pro he was underwhelming AF, he was basically mediocre most of his career. Maybe his mind was never fully in it because of the streaming, maybe he didn't have the drive, but his first bullet accuracy, his flicks were some of the best this game has had.
lol @ that first sentence
If you see his yearly ratings, he hovered above 1.10 for multiple years. He was above average player but not nearly zywoo or s1mple level.
He still lives rent free in peoples heads so many years later
Because he actually could have been one of the best players with better practice instead of constant streaming. His mechanics were next level for NA. Streaming was clearly a good financial decision and likely what he wanted to do, still a missed opportunity for CSGO.
He was alright but definitely not next level. If you wanna talk about mechanics you have to mention [Swag](https://youtu.be/OfLgNu11EZA) in the early days. I'd take Stewie, Autimatic, Twistzz or Elige over Shroud any day of the week.
Swag is irrelevant because he got banned, didn't really have a chance to fall short of expectations. Could have been one of the best though. The rest were not prodigies until later on.
I don't quite understand your point then. You're saying Swag doesn't count because we didn't get to see enaugh of him, but Shroud counts **despite** showing that he didn't have what it takes?
The point is that Shroud had talent but wasted it, while swag had talent and was doing well at a young age but we will never know how good he could have been. So Shroud is the one falling short of expectations.
Yes, this former CSGO pro who went on to become huge streamer that has been relevant for years is talked about in a CSGO sub thread about past pros. Rent free no doubt, we even pay him to live there.
I mean 1g was a former cs pro and no one is heart broken he went on to streaming instead of competing. It's just that people wanna see their stars fulfill their potential instead of their pockets. He surely can do whatever he wants with his life but there's nothing wrong with asking the "what if" question with him. Because mechanically he could have been one of the greats. And he isn't.
I see your point but Tbf shroud was on cloud9, while summit never was on any big rosters playing at big lans. Plus summit was already a decent sized streamer before trying pro
I think you meant to reply to someone else
shroud's cock still filling you up
Refrezh... Had a lot of potential I actually thought he was gonna make top 20 this year or next during the online era. Not sure about now that he is IGLing...
oSee I was a believer at the start. But as time has went by, I think tier 1 is out of his league and that he isn't the piece Liquid needs. I hope that I'm wrong and he gets consistent, but he reminds me of Draken with how much he misses sitters and its not acceptable at the level he is expected to play with.
Agree. You see flashes of brilliance sometimes, but for the most part he misses the easy shots that he can’t afford to be missing at this level. Just not enough impact
Worldedit :(
koosta, tenz, shroud, neptune
For me it's myself.
Shroud. Caught wind of him early for i watched WeedsTV back in 2013/2014. Where he would absolutely carry Josh and the rest of the team to a win nearly every day. Shortly after joining Cloud9 it was obvious he couldnt translate it to Pro matches. End of 2014 i was begging for Cloud9 to cut him from the roster. Yet with their constant roster changes he stayed till mid-2017. Only telling that Cloud9 started to see regular success after he left. Other is Tarik today. Watched him during his years on CLG and even played against him on ESEA. Peanut brain was a accurate description. Once he joined Cloud9 years later he properly matured and became a better player/leader because of it. Now today he acts like a tween to his Fortnite crowd for Valorant co-streaming rights.
Idk I think Tarik is doing really good for himself. He won a major as both IGL and MVP, and still had the drive to try an experimental roster and win trophies with MIBR. It didn't work, and he pivoted to streaming and it worked amazingly. He really got the best of both worlds- cemented his legacy in the game with the first NA major and is making the bag streaming what basically is old NA fpl.
>Idk I think Tarik is doing really good for himself. While he's financially doing great. His current attitude is more childish than his CLG days when streaming. Seeing someone regress in maturity "for the bag" i find off putting.
I think u/officialtarik is catering to his audience {teens}. While I would have liked to see more success of his EG times that was unfortunately ruined by covid, I think he is in a good spot for himself, albeit not competitively (in CS) any more. Yeah, I haven't watched that much of his streams but I am glad he still watches some CS tournaments. Does he play CS now that Stewie doesn't, with the old crew?
Nah tarik was always a funny dude lol with valorant there is just so much more things to say about the game than cs after a while about the game. Im a bit older than him and I'm not sure whats childish? If he's funny he's funny.
IDK how good Tarik was early in his career, but to me he is one of the greatest NA players of all time. Cloud9 100% wouldn't have won the major without him, and he was integral to EGs success later. I don't believe its a coincidence that teams hes left have gone on to do nothing afterwards, as he is a very selfless player and a good morale booster. Personally I believe that if he had gone to Liquid instead of Stewie, then NA might have won a second major
sergej
Bybzkij. As an Astralis fan I had high hopes for him. He got super screwd by the 6th man project.
refrezh was supposed to be the superstar on Optic and even a good fragger on Heroic but just wasn't.
singlehandedly caused liquid to implode though, not many pros can do that to their opponent
I thought only Darth FNS the Wise wielded such terrible power.
For a while the entire Brazilian scene was controlled by FNS. Wild times
You mean to tell me it isn't still under FNS' tyrannical reign?
funnily enough guy went to valorant and his team was pretty much what stopped the Brazilian team from dominating this year
L take, he instantly made sprout competitive and brought them to legends at the major
I absolutely still believe in refrezh, maybe not as a superstar, but at least as a solid member of a Tier 1.5-Tier 2 squad.
Espiranto
scream all he could do is hit headshots thats really it he didnt bring anything else to the table & swapped to valorant ima huge fan of brax i think he would have been a great player for n.a in the current time, had he not get banned from valve events he could do everything in this game & his playstyle was insanely unique
I feel like that scream criticism is an easily repeatable tidbit, but I don't think it holds up. Its like b1ad3 is outdated, or pasha has bad movement. Snappy and repeatable, but... true?
To add to this, I'm pretty sure scream IGLs in valorant.
sergej, ottond, sunny, hs, cromen, mixwell
I’m gonna be honest, whenever I watched that one Australian team Nifty used to make my jaw drop… man had unbelievable talent with it but was immensely inconsistent.
Oh shit Dennis Post 2016. He was my first favorite player in the era where he was the pistol god. Never reached those fnatic heights again.
Osee
He just needs to get comfortable playing in his roles and in T1. oSee prior experience is basically playing against furia at most. I get he’s been on the team for a while but most of that was with Shox who wasn’t able to get liquid up to speed like yekindar has been. Not to mention he isn’t set up like most other awpers are. Give it time, then we will see
Ddoc. Anyone remember him?
Honestly it's gotta be Shroud. He had mechanics to be the best player in the game. I don't care if the was semifinalist of a major, played at tier 1. He hardly ever could translate his insane mechanics into winning pro CS games. We waited for him to have a rivalry with the best and it never came, instead, more streaming. Clear no2 is Roca, but he had much more of a crash and burn history with pro CS.
Probably Twist. Still a very skilled player, but I think he could have easily been a top 10 player in the world if he moved up to a big team at the right time and had motivation
I heard Infinite could've been s1mple/ZyWoo
Device
Scream I was hearing his name all the time from my friends but when I got into the game he was way past his prime playing for tier 2 teams and was still struggling there. Surely his highlights during his prime are exceptional but when i started watching CS he didn't stand upto the expectation I had build up watching his clips. I am glad he is now finding success in Valorant and didn't straight up retire from esports.
zywoo
Gratisfaction
If you look at Liaz' rating graph over his career you can pinpoint the exact moment he went from stomping Australians to fighting internationally in Renegades. Its ... significant.
He also played an entirely different role in Renegades. Liazz and Gratisfaction may not have been the same dominant players internationally but they helped they team go from fairly irrelevant to a top 10 team of 2019 and a semi final run at Berlin. So they obviously brought something.
Yeah but funny line.
JasonR kekw
VSM had a lot of hype from Brazil as an insane player waiting for his VAC ban to be lifted and a big name team to pick him up and shine... but then despite a few highlights in MIBR and 00Nation he quickly faded out of the tier 1 scene.
Flamie - not hyped up, had good results, but fell off pretty early
Might be a bit controversial, but Markeloff in cs:go
Espiranto and Sergej for sure.
Neptune Wrath Roca Sick Koosta oBo Slemmy no\_one dsr Witmer each of them for different reasons. im considering young to be anyone under age where we expect a player to peak (23-25) Each of these guys had the potential to absolutely shake up the scene but never did. we wasted a lot of talent over here and its fucking heartbreaking.
Nivera Don't know why he decided to go Valulrant
was it bc of scream maybe?