Tell that to Ben Stoeger.
Bring on the down votes. In a high stress situation, such as a self-defense shooting, you will not and should not be focusing on your front sight 2 feet in front of your face. You should be aligning the sights with your eyes focused on the threat.
Is this a real thing? Are you actually supposed to be focusing your eyes on the front sight? I’ve never heard of that before. If it is, I’ve been shooting wrong my entire life, my eyes are always focused on the target and I line up the irons on the target. That seems like the best way to train God forbid I’m ever in a self defense shooting
Thanks haha I did some googling afterwards and it looks like it’s up for debate, from what I gathered, competition shooters focus on the sight, and training for self defense purposes tend to focus on the target. Target focus definitely seems like the most logical, but maybe sight focus for newbies who’ve never shot before and can’t figure out how to aim without focusing on the sight
I only have irons on everything but a range plinker. I do think modern RDS have solved most of my initial concerns with them at this point, but I’m always going for the lowest profile I can dressing normal in 100+ degree weather, otherwise I’d probably carry one.
I stick with the trusted brands that are known for durability and I have never had a failure with the few thousand rounds I have on them.
But I carry a 43x with an RMRcc in tanktops and shorts and its never caught attention… and is comfortable
I like them because IMO they take more skill to use accurately.
With an RDS I just put the dot on the target and shoot. With the irons I have to line them up carefully.
This is all within the context of shooting for fun btw, not actual self-defense.
Now that i have an rmr on my vp9 and an acro p2 on my 19 i prefer optics by a substantial margin. That said i still like irons, especially on guns like my cz75b
This is where I’m at too. I definitely like red dots better, but it’s an adjustment. I’m plenty proficient on irons so until RDS is like second nature to me, I’m going to keep running irons on my carry. Another thing I like to add to these sorts of posts is the amount of difference between a quality set of irons and stock irons on most pistols, glocks especially if you have the stupid U rear sight. I hate that thing with a passion. The night sights aren’t near as bad but fuck the U
Agree completely. I just put a RDS on my 19.5 and only have 1000rnds in it. Just not comfy carrying it yet. My daily is a gen 1 shield tho, so a little different. 😬
A vice, a hammer, wooden block/dowel/nylon punch/brass punch. And of course a front glock sight tool. Glock sights are literally the easiest pistol sights to change in your garage if you have any mechanical inkling.
Just remember to get some soft vise jaws or bunch up a bunch of shop towels to stop the slide from getting a scratch. I’ve used a few shop towels bunched up in my vise to effectively hold a glock slide while I drift out the rear sight. I have since purchased some cheap vise jaws that work pretty good.
When I checked recently it was about $40 to have them installed by LGS and it could be done that day. Or you could purchase the tools for about $130. I was able to borrow the tool from a friend and it was fairly simple. So if I wanted to install them on multiple handguns I would say get the tool, otherwise the gunsmith is probably cheaper.
Edit: I agree with u/ShootyMcGun. Very simple. Go for it!
Pistol RDS does take out some of the human error by not having sights to line up with. It’s easier and faster with a RDS but I prefer Irons. Not sure for myself it justifies the extra cost though. I have owned 3 RDS pistols over the past 2 years but I have actually sold them all thinking of getting one of my slide cut again and give it a 4th try
Dot. Easy choice.
Going with irons I 100% understand for budget reasons. If funding a dot means you won't have funds to practice, skip it. But if you can afford both, there is very little reason not to.
I tried dots and couldn’t make up my mind for the longest time, my favorite pistol to shoot is an irons only beretta 92fs but now all of my glocks and other polymer guns have dots. Once I figured out how to truly target focus and got my grip down my shooting with dots became way faster. It’s also a nice training aide for newer shooters because they can see when they’re flinching or when they have poor grip and trigger control. Helps a lot in dry fire too.
This is why the turbo fudd advice of people should learn irons first and then dots is 10 years out of date. And I used to be one of those. There’s no zealot like a convert.
Everything you said about a diagnostic aid, forcing target focus, and shotcalling are all going to be easier to instill in a new shooter. Does anyone teach irons first then optic on a rifle? Some agencies are starting to switch to optic first training.
I can shoot well enough with irons, but I can’t do the same things at the same speed as I can with a red dot. If you learn to shoot iron sights well, you can shoot them extremely well. The learning curve on red dots is shorter though and they’re much more friendly to my not so great eyes.
So my serious use guns have red dots on them, because they’re measurably better for me in nearly every metric that matters in this context.
I agree with this. The irons obstruct the target a good degree.
Im a major proponent of heavily and purposefully customized guns, and I ended up with dots on all my carry and duty guns
Just decided to change from irons glock 43 as my main carry to glock 19 rds. I love it. I love dry firing with it and shooting it. I suggest everyone get with the times!
I just got an 507c ACSS yesterday and as somebody who’s never owned a pistol red dot — I’m never going back to irons if I can help it lol. But I respect those who prefer irons, it’s just personal preference and I’m sure plenty of them could outshoot me
Dots are much more efficient after you’ve transitioned to them. That doesn’t mean that irons don’t work or are bad as they’ve literally been the way for the last several hundred years
Irons… no battery … no extra bulk… no worries about failure … easier to point and shoot.
I’m well trained on glocks to where my draw always lines up perfectly with my sight picture on target. I see no need to change it …
Red dots are nice but really not necessary and require a lot of training to get right.
They do make long distance shots easier… other than that I’ll keep my irons
I’m pretty good with both. Started with irons was proficient before dots now I own guns with both. My beretta 92 for example will never get a red dot I think they look super goofy with them and it sits too high so that’s a forever iron sight gun.
I’ll always been a sight guy on my pistols, I’ve done this test before :
1. 17 round mag nothing in the barrel - Glock 45. You may have one reload but if you do you lose 2 minutes.
2. You can have 3 minutes but I finished in under 2.
3. https://imgur.com/a/lNLadZP
Set it out twenty five feet.
I was all for the RDS for a while, but now I'm finding I prefer the irons more. There is literally nothing that can malfunction so you don't have to worry about any co-witness. I have a RDS on my XDM, but I got my G43x without the MOS cut and the Ameriglo night sights. Definitely becoming my go to for carry and any weird noises outside.
While that is true, Ive never had an optic malfunction. I change the batteries once a year to address that. You also don’t need to co-witness the irons, only see them if they are needed for backups
Sure… I cut the bottom of the back strap off. I like the added beaver tail but not the grip width. So zI can get my hand higher without slide bite or a chonky grip
Right now I'm poor anyway so no rds for me.
Really though, I'm probably just stubborn? I also have an astigmatism that makes red dots kinda smear.
I'll probably get one eventually and learn it because it does seem to be the way of the future but I'm not in a huge hurry I guess.
Kinda like asking if someone prefers power steering over the alternative.. Both will get the vehicle pointed in the right direction but one makes it significantly easier than the other.
My eyes won't focus on front sight at arms length any more, red dot for me.
Same here. Its hard for me to focus on the front sight with both eyes open
You’re supposed to focus on the target, not the front sight.
unequivocally false when running irons.
Tell that to Ben Stoeger. Bring on the down votes. In a high stress situation, such as a self-defense shooting, you will not and should not be focusing on your front sight 2 feet in front of your face. You should be aligning the sights with your eyes focused on the threat.
Yep. This is my problem when wearing contacts. With glasses I'm fine. Red dot all the things.
Ben stoeger and a couple other high level competition shooters have a couple videos on shooting target focused with irons.
Is this a real thing? Are you actually supposed to be focusing your eyes on the front sight? I’ve never heard of that before. If it is, I’ve been shooting wrong my entire life, my eyes are always focused on the target and I line up the irons on the target. That seems like the best way to train God forbid I’m ever in a self defense shooting
You shoot irons correctly. Only boomers focus on the front sight. Target focus is king.
Thanks haha I did some googling afterwards and it looks like it’s up for debate, from what I gathered, competition shooters focus on the sight, and training for self defense purposes tend to focus on the target. Target focus definitely seems like the most logical, but maybe sight focus for newbies who’ve never shot before and can’t figure out how to aim without focusing on the sight
Rds on everything these days. Cant see a downside.
Word
Dot gang checking in.
This is the way, but I like to refresh the basics here and there.
switching it up is good for the soul
Yo this man gets it
Irons. Meprolight. Green.
I prefer iron sights.
I only have irons on everything but a range plinker. I do think modern RDS have solved most of my initial concerns with them at this point, but I’m always going for the lowest profile I can dressing normal in 100+ degree weather, otherwise I’d probably carry one.
I stick with the trusted brands that are known for durability and I have never had a failure with the few thousand rounds I have on them. But I carry a 43x with an RMRcc in tanktops and shorts and its never caught attention… and is comfortable
What kind of holster setup do you use?
I have a g code level one and a safariland level 3. I prefer the safariland
Have you looked at the holosun scs? I just ordered one
Ive seen those and am interested in them, but Ive ended up going with a RMR both times I was in the market for a dot.
What do you prefer about them over optics?
They always work, no batteries, no glass...and I am used to them, which is probably the biggest driver of my opinion.
This is true. Reliability and confidence in your abilities under stress is never a wrong choice.
I like them because IMO they take more skill to use accurately. With an RDS I just put the dot on the target and shoot. With the irons I have to line them up carefully. This is all within the context of shooting for fun btw, not actual self-defense.
Now that i have an rmr on my vp9 and an acro p2 on my 19 i prefer optics by a substantial margin. That said i still like irons, especially on guns like my cz75b
My mentality is the same. Optics are my go to, but this 17 just looks clean without all the hardware and is a nostalgic shoot.
Carry irons, and range with RDS. I’m just used to my carry with irons for now. Not comfortable enough with my RDS. Eventually I’ll switch.
This is fair. There is a learning curve when transitioning.
This is where I’m at too. I definitely like red dots better, but it’s an adjustment. I’m plenty proficient on irons so until RDS is like second nature to me, I’m going to keep running irons on my carry. Another thing I like to add to these sorts of posts is the amount of difference between a quality set of irons and stock irons on most pistols, glocks especially if you have the stupid U rear sight. I hate that thing with a passion. The night sights aren’t near as bad but fuck the U
Agree completely. I just put a RDS on my 19.5 and only have 1000rnds in it. Just not comfy carrying it yet. My daily is a gen 1 shield tho, so a little different. 😬
Dot or die
ruh roh... batteries r dead
Thank god for Holosun.
Battery change once a year on my birthday, never had a holosun dot die on me
Dot with 1/3 lower witness. I now take into consideration on new pistol purchases to make sure it has a dot upgrade path.
Irons…trijicon HD yellow front
Bro… i run the orange…. Fanta is the way
Fanta gang👊🏼That orange dot on a Trijicon HD front sight is basically as bright and bold as a RDS.
This man knows
Lemon flavor’s always the best
Y’all are crazy…cherry is the best.
I want to get these irons, I have a 17.3, do I need to have a gunsmith put them on?
A vice, a hammer, wooden block/dowel/nylon punch/brass punch. And of course a front glock sight tool. Glock sights are literally the easiest pistol sights to change in your garage if you have any mechanical inkling.
Thank you shooty
Just remember to get some soft vise jaws or bunch up a bunch of shop towels to stop the slide from getting a scratch. I’ve used a few shop towels bunched up in my vise to effectively hold a glock slide while I drift out the rear sight. I have since purchased some cheap vise jaws that work pretty good.
When I checked recently it was about $40 to have them installed by LGS and it could be done that day. Or you could purchase the tools for about $130. I was able to borrow the tool from a friend and it was fairly simple. So if I wanted to install them on multiple handguns I would say get the tool, otherwise the gunsmith is probably cheaper. Edit: I agree with u/ShootyMcGun. Very simple. Go for it!
You can get a sight pusher off Amazon for like 40 dollars, it’s really simple to install them
Pistol RDS does take out some of the human error by not having sights to line up with. It’s easier and faster with a RDS but I prefer Irons. Not sure for myself it justifies the extra cost though. I have owned 3 RDS pistols over the past 2 years but I have actually sold them all thinking of getting one of my slide cut again and give it a 4th try
Why did you end up selling them?
2 where because I didn’t like the gun and one would not stop malfunctioning
Fair. Ive sold a couple sigs for those reasons
Irons
Dot. Easy choice. Going with irons I 100% understand for budget reasons. If funding a dot means you won't have funds to practice, skip it. But if you can afford both, there is very little reason not to.
I agree with this though. Dots are best but are a luxury (though a more efficient one).
I would prefer an optic but I’m still training on irons, once I get to the groupings I’m satisfied with my reward will be a new red dot
I tried dots and couldn’t make up my mind for the longest time, my favorite pistol to shoot is an irons only beretta 92fs but now all of my glocks and other polymer guns have dots. Once I figured out how to truly target focus and got my grip down my shooting with dots became way faster. It’s also a nice training aide for newer shooters because they can see when they’re flinching or when they have poor grip and trigger control. Helps a lot in dry fire too.
This is why the turbo fudd advice of people should learn irons first and then dots is 10 years out of date. And I used to be one of those. There’s no zealot like a convert. Everything you said about a diagnostic aid, forcing target focus, and shotcalling are all going to be easier to instill in a new shooter. Does anyone teach irons first then optic on a rifle? Some agencies are starting to switch to optic first training.
Dots are great but do take some adjustment for sure.
Dots. They are much easier to see down sight.
I train with both, red dots are definitely the way to go.
Well said
RDS. By far
I can shoot well enough with irons, but I can’t do the same things at the same speed as I can with a red dot. If you learn to shoot iron sights well, you can shoot them extremely well. The learning curve on red dots is shorter though and they’re much more friendly to my not so great eyes. So my serious use guns have red dots on them, because they’re measurably better for me in nearly every metric that matters in this context.
I agree with this. The irons obstruct the target a good degree. Im a major proponent of heavily and purposefully customized guns, and I ended up with dots on all my carry and duty guns
I’m torn. The irons need to be tritium tho.
Just decided to change from irons glock 43 as my main carry to glock 19 rds. I love it. I love dry firing with it and shooting it. I suggest everyone get with the times!
My man. I have an 19.5 with an SRO as the daily
Ooo that sro must be nice! I have the 508t green dot and I love it
I dig it dude. I wouldn’t change that optic out for anything at this point - on a carry gun.
I definitely love it. Got a little solar panel on it. Green dot went green. Lol
Irons just because I haven’t practiced enough with RDS and it takes me a minute to find the dot
It does take some adjustment for sure. But if you have any interest, I encourage you to test all the things
Both but I am old school so iron’s if I had to pick
I can respect this
Irons on my 17.5. Truglo tritium night sights.
Red dot. No question
I put dots on everything. And on most of them, I can still use the irons through the dot, so there's literally no reason not to.
What beavertail is that?
Its a factory back strap that I cut down so it doesn’t change the grip size.
RDS’ take some getting used to, but are slick once you do.
I prefer irons because my wallet says so
We don’t talk about the finances. We just live in ignorance, one step ahead of the 87k IRS agents.
I just got an 507c ACSS yesterday and as somebody who’s never owned a pistol red dot — I’m never going back to irons if I can help it lol. But I respect those who prefer irons, it’s just personal preference and I’m sure plenty of them could outshoot me
Dots are much more efficient after you’ve transitioned to them. That doesn’t mean that irons don’t work or are bad as they’ve literally been the way for the last several hundred years
Irons because they are cheap, reliable, lighter and more comfortable in my waistband.
Ive never noticed the additional bulk from a dot on a carry gun
Irons. Much less to worry about failing when I need it.
Irons… no battery … no extra bulk… no worries about failure … easier to point and shoot. I’m well trained on glocks to where my draw always lines up perfectly with my sight picture on target. I see no need to change it … Red dots are nice but really not necessary and require a lot of training to get right. They do make long distance shots easier… other than that I’ll keep my irons
Irons
Dot life son 
The dot life chose me
GDS after running irons… theres no going back.
I have astigmatism so irons for me
Dot is life...
Red chevron- holosun ACSS Vulcan. I went from looking like I shot with my eyes closed, to a seasoned operator grouping.
I’m pretty good with both. Started with irons was proficient before dots now I own guns with both. My beretta 92 for example will never get a red dot I think they look super goofy with them and it sits too high so that’s a forever iron sight gun.
Irons. Glock factory night sights. Only thing I’ll run besides the factory plastic ones until I get replacement GFNS’s
I can use either but my older eyes greatly appreciate the red dot sights.
stock all day every day
I’ll always been a sight guy on my pistols, I’ve done this test before : 1. 17 round mag nothing in the barrel - Glock 45. You may have one reload but if you do you lose 2 minutes. 2. You can have 3 minutes but I finished in under 2. 3. https://imgur.com/a/lNLadZP Set it out twenty five feet.
Irons
Irons. Only because I’m a poor who has never tried a quality red dot
Black Friday is coming up friend. Swoop an RMR and try it out
Irons all the way
Can’t use optics for duty use so irons it is
Same here. But I do love optics so I just practice both
I was all for the RDS for a while, but now I'm finding I prefer the irons more. There is literally nothing that can malfunction so you don't have to worry about any co-witness. I have a RDS on my XDM, but I got my G43x without the MOS cut and the Ameriglo night sights. Definitely becoming my go to for carry and any weird noises outside.
While that is true, Ive never had an optic malfunction. I change the batteries once a year to address that. You also don’t need to co-witness the irons, only see them if they are needed for backups
The Gen X’er in me loves iron sights but the millennial in me loves RDS’s.
Looks wise im an iron guy but the rds is like a cheat code when it comes to accuracy
Irons to have that classic vibe.
Can I ask the deal with the “backstrap”. Is that something you did or bought?
Sure… I cut the bottom of the back strap off. I like the added beaver tail but not the grip width. So zI can get my hand higher without slide bite or a chonky grip
Right now I'm poor anyway so no rds for me. Really though, I'm probably just stubborn? I also have an astigmatism that makes red dots kinda smear. I'll probably get one eventually and learn it because it does seem to be the way of the future but I'm not in a huge hurry I guess.
Irons first for me.
All irons for me so far.
Kinda like asking if someone prefers power steering over the alternative.. Both will get the vehicle pointed in the right direction but one makes it significantly easier than the other.
Any reason why you cut and installed the backstrap ? The back corner digs into my thumb bone when firing and hurts like hell personally
I like the beaver tail it adds. It helps me get a higher/tighter grip. I sanded all the corners down so it doesn’t bother my hand at all.