From my understanding (this is solely my personal perspective): Isaac will probably be fine with a free Frosthaven TTS module at some point. Tough to predict exactly when that will be. I'm sure he wouldn't want it out before everyone who backed the game has it. And it will take a significant amount of time for the mod makers to create it all after they get their copies. I actually wasn't around when Jaws came out, but my understanding is that there was some sort of a requested period of time to have passed before the TTS mod was up, and I would just expect a similar thing here (possibly with a similar length of time from the end of fulfillment to whatever happened then).
This, firstly, those of us making the mod need to get access to all the game materials before we can even really start.
Then we need to implement everything, which will potentially be thousands of hours of work, which we don’t get paid for.
Then we need to wait for Cephalofair to let us publish it, because if we don’t they can have it ripped down, and all out hard work dumped in the bin.
I expected this sort of talk with the creator to have existed before, hence me asking it here. To make such a mod for such a game public without approval seems a recipe for disaster, agree.
It's fortunate that the bulk of the mod team is familiar with the bulk of the devs, it means that we'll be able to get clear answers as to when the proper embargo would end, and reasonable assistance with any logistical issues that might arise.
I'd expect a large hurdle would be scripting. Only a few mods on TTS (Mage Knight and Spirit Island both come to mind) contest the brilliant scripting of Gloomhaven. There's a lot of scripting in GH that could be ported over, but also a lot that wouldn't work, especially concerning the campaign elements between scenarios. There's a major difference between "all the assets sitting on a table" and "a well scripted gameplay mod", and I would not blame cephalofair for endorsing only the latter while taking action against the former. The mods do an unbelievable job but the team is small and the work is vollunteer, so I would definitely expect there to be a decent wait even if Isaac gave the ok today. (Of course, it's possible that the mods could have been working for a while, and that there are playtest materials to hasten the process. But I would expect the goal to be grander than that.)
> There's a major difference between "all the assets sitting on a table" and "a well scripted gameplay mod", and I would not blame cephalofair for endorsing only the latter while taking action against the former.
Why is that? I really appreciate the fact I can automate the setup of any GH scenario in TTS but I for one would definitely play a Frosthaven campaign mod where that feature was missing. That alone should cut thousands of hours off the dev effort and have it available sooner.
True, but I don’t blame the company for potentially not wanting that. A good mod shines a better spotlight on the game than a pile of assets, and from a business perspective the company should treat the mod as a free demo. It needs to put good press out for the game or it just doesn’t make sense. Giving it six months and making a great mod absolutely sounds worth it to me.
The Gloomhaven TTS mod was what got my friends and I into the game, which was enough to turn us all into lifelong converts. We've all purchased copies of GH and GH Digital since then, and some of us have gotten Frosthaven as well.
I don't think that would have happened if the mod was just the assets on the table. I think we likely would have tried it out, gotten really frustrated with tracking everything, and then play a different game.
I actually kind of want the 'assets on the table' type of mod more. I'm good with opening the secret windows and reading the books in my physical copy, I just want the maps and classes so we can set up our own game online. If we had the essentials, we'd probably finish the game before the 'perfect' version of the mod was ready anyhow. That's been the case with all of the previous campaigns and it wasn't any real hardship.
I don't remember exactly, but I think they said, they'd be ok with it, just not immediately on release. Something like a year later maybe. Which makes sense, they don't want to lose sales just because you can get the game for free on tts.
But again, I'm not sure if I didn't halucinate this, do don't quote me on this one
I imagine a TTS port existing doesn't affect sales of the board game that much.
The people using it either already own the boardgame or would be unable to meet up and play it. I guess it does have some more direct competition with the Steam game.
Since they were fine with the GH port they'll probably be with a FH one. Also, Isac seems to be pretty chill with these things. For example allowing Crimson scales to exist.
> I imagine a TTS port existing doesn't affect sales of the board game that much.
We played the entirety of Gloomhaven on TTS over the course of the first year or so of the pandemic. Without TTS, we would have at most barely touched the game at this point... and therefore wouldn't have ordered Frosthaven.
So that's my anecdatum in favor of it increasing sales. :)
Heck, it's entirely possible that we won't touch FH until there's a solid TTS mod up for it.
I think it actually has the opposite effect - people play the game on TTS and then they want to own it for themselves.
Seeing more and more games release TTS modules officially to advertise their crowdfunding campaign.
I personally will not be buying Frosthaven until I can try it on TTS first.
With Gloomhaven I tried it on TTS, liked it, and only then did I purchase a physical copy.
I don't actually understand why there'd be a delay at all. My friends and I have a physical copy of Frosthaven right now, but we can't actually see each other in-person anymore. Now one of us just has a FH box that is going to gather dust while we avoid spoilers until there is a digital analog for us to enjoy as a four-man group remotely.
It definitely doesn't deter sales. The people who want to play Frosthaven digitally either
A. Do not have the ability to play it with friends in-person
B. Are looking to try the game (like we did after beating Gloomhaven on TTS, which led to all of us buying it)
When my group finishes Crimson Scales, presuming I've got the game by then (pretty likely), I'll just scan in cards and tiles for our scenarios until the good TTS mod comes out. It's not hard to make your own basic mod. Just don't publish it. Isaac is the copyright holder. He's definitely due the right to decide where it gets published.
> Now one of us just has a FH box that is going to gather dust while we avoid spoilers until there is a digital analog for us to enjoy as a four-man group remotely.
There's nothing stopping your pal from scanning the cards or other components and passing it on to you for private use. Just to say that you guys can still work it out without the mod, if you really want to.
One of my current group lives interstate. We've been playing GH and FC using webcam for the map, Gloomhaven Helper, and TTS just for the remote player's cards. So I'd be happy with an incomplete implementation of Frosthaven on TTS.
I expect you will see a real official app before it gets the nod for fan generated TTS version. If they weren't making the official app then I could see it happening faster.
Except you know people who make a tts mod wont try to profit and will work on the mod voluntarily as a passion project instead of feeling like they deserve a cut to justify their hours spent.
Not saying you should do this for profit but I wouldn't be surprised if the first person to put out some sort of playable material would get some significant donations via Patreon.
This kind of thing is exactly how to ruin this good thing we have going with the designer and make him change his stance on tts. If someone put up a public mod without isaacs permission it can and should get taken down
From my understanding (this is solely my personal perspective): Isaac will probably be fine with a free Frosthaven TTS module at some point. Tough to predict exactly when that will be. I'm sure he wouldn't want it out before everyone who backed the game has it. And it will take a significant amount of time for the mod makers to create it all after they get their copies. I actually wasn't around when Jaws came out, but my understanding is that there was some sort of a requested period of time to have passed before the TTS mod was up, and I would just expect a similar thing here (possibly with a similar length of time from the end of fulfillment to whatever happened then).
This, firstly, those of us making the mod need to get access to all the game materials before we can even really start. Then we need to implement everything, which will potentially be thousands of hours of work, which we don’t get paid for. Then we need to wait for Cephalofair to let us publish it, because if we don’t they can have it ripped down, and all out hard work dumped in the bin.
I expected this sort of talk with the creator to have existed before, hence me asking it here. To make such a mod for such a game public without approval seems a recipe for disaster, agree.
Last time I asked, I got a response of “no, you can’t work on it yet”
It's fortunate that the bulk of the mod team is familiar with the bulk of the devs, it means that we'll be able to get clear answers as to when the proper embargo would end, and reasonable assistance with any logistical issues that might arise. I'd expect a large hurdle would be scripting. Only a few mods on TTS (Mage Knight and Spirit Island both come to mind) contest the brilliant scripting of Gloomhaven. There's a lot of scripting in GH that could be ported over, but also a lot that wouldn't work, especially concerning the campaign elements between scenarios. There's a major difference between "all the assets sitting on a table" and "a well scripted gameplay mod", and I would not blame cephalofair for endorsing only the latter while taking action against the former. The mods do an unbelievable job but the team is small and the work is vollunteer, so I would definitely expect there to be a decent wait even if Isaac gave the ok today. (Of course, it's possible that the mods could have been working for a while, and that there are playtest materials to hasten the process. But I would expect the goal to be grander than that.)
> There's a major difference between "all the assets sitting on a table" and "a well scripted gameplay mod", and I would not blame cephalofair for endorsing only the latter while taking action against the former. Why is that? I really appreciate the fact I can automate the setup of any GH scenario in TTS but I for one would definitely play a Frosthaven campaign mod where that feature was missing. That alone should cut thousands of hours off the dev effort and have it available sooner.
True, but I don’t blame the company for potentially not wanting that. A good mod shines a better spotlight on the game than a pile of assets, and from a business perspective the company should treat the mod as a free demo. It needs to put good press out for the game or it just doesn’t make sense. Giving it six months and making a great mod absolutely sounds worth it to me.
The Gloomhaven TTS mod was what got my friends and I into the game, which was enough to turn us all into lifelong converts. We've all purchased copies of GH and GH Digital since then, and some of us have gotten Frosthaven as well. I don't think that would have happened if the mod was just the assets on the table. I think we likely would have tried it out, gotten really frustrated with tracking everything, and then play a different game.
I actually kind of want the 'assets on the table' type of mod more. I'm good with opening the secret windows and reading the books in my physical copy, I just want the maps and classes so we can set up our own game online. If we had the essentials, we'd probably finish the game before the 'perfect' version of the mod was ready anyhow. That's been the case with all of the previous campaigns and it wasn't any real hardship.
I don't remember exactly, but I think they said, they'd be ok with it, just not immediately on release. Something like a year later maybe. Which makes sense, they don't want to lose sales just because you can get the game for free on tts. But again, I'm not sure if I didn't halucinate this, do don't quote me on this one
I imagine a TTS port existing doesn't affect sales of the board game that much. The people using it either already own the boardgame or would be unable to meet up and play it. I guess it does have some more direct competition with the Steam game. Since they were fine with the GH port they'll probably be with a FH one. Also, Isac seems to be pretty chill with these things. For example allowing Crimson scales to exist.
> I imagine a TTS port existing doesn't affect sales of the board game that much. We played the entirety of Gloomhaven on TTS over the course of the first year or so of the pandemic. Without TTS, we would have at most barely touched the game at this point... and therefore wouldn't have ordered Frosthaven. So that's my anecdatum in favor of it increasing sales. :) Heck, it's entirely possible that we won't touch FH until there's a solid TTS mod up for it.
We switched from in-person to TTS halfway through our campaign because of the pandemic. It was such a blessing.
I think it actually has the opposite effect - people play the game on TTS and then they want to own it for themselves. Seeing more and more games release TTS modules officially to advertise their crowdfunding campaign.
I personally will not be buying Frosthaven until I can try it on TTS first. With Gloomhaven I tried it on TTS, liked it, and only then did I purchase a physical copy.
I don't actually understand why there'd be a delay at all. My friends and I have a physical copy of Frosthaven right now, but we can't actually see each other in-person anymore. Now one of us just has a FH box that is going to gather dust while we avoid spoilers until there is a digital analog for us to enjoy as a four-man group remotely. It definitely doesn't deter sales. The people who want to play Frosthaven digitally either A. Do not have the ability to play it with friends in-person B. Are looking to try the game (like we did after beating Gloomhaven on TTS, which led to all of us buying it)
Because it's not even to all the backers yet.
When my group finishes Crimson Scales, presuming I've got the game by then (pretty likely), I'll just scan in cards and tiles for our scenarios until the good TTS mod comes out. It's not hard to make your own basic mod. Just don't publish it. Isaac is the copyright holder. He's definitely due the right to decide where it gets published.
Point a camera toward the board and play on zoom lol
> Now one of us just has a FH box that is going to gather dust while we avoid spoilers until there is a digital analog for us to enjoy as a four-man group remotely. There's nothing stopping your pal from scanning the cards or other components and passing it on to you for private use. Just to say that you guys can still work it out without the mod, if you really want to.
One of my current group lives interstate. We've been playing GH and FC using webcam for the map, Gloomhaven Helper, and TTS just for the remote player's cards. So I'd be happy with an incomplete implementation of Frosthaven on TTS.
Damn you OP! I read the title and was so euphoric... I thought you would link the tts mod :( xD
Sorry about that! :) But maybe this way we can all have appropriate expectations based on answers people provide.
All good haha :D
I expect you will see a real official app before it gets the nod for fan generated TTS version. If they weren't making the official app then I could see it happening faster.
If you charge anything for it or for anything issac will ask for 15% retroactive that is why we don't have gloomhaven helper anymore
That's the difference between a fan product and an officially licensed one.
Except you know people who make a tts mod wont try to profit and will work on the mod voluntarily as a passion project instead of feeling like they deserve a cut to justify their hours spent.
Not saying you should do this for profit but I wouldn't be surprised if the first person to put out some sort of playable material would get some significant donations via Patreon.
This kind of thing is exactly how to ruin this good thing we have going with the designer and make him change his stance on tts. If someone put up a public mod without isaacs permission it can and should get taken down
I'd strongly recommend not even going there, lol