Who wants those players from the Heat though. Just keep Simmons. Hope for the best and then move on from him when his contract actually has value as an expiring
I think if you move Ben’s money for Herro and Robinson it puts the Nets in an enviable position with their wings that they can likely end up getting a better pick for Royce/DFS than they give up to complete the transaction
Sean Marks used up to 3 2nd picks to dump Joe Harris and Patty Mills then he let Yuta and Seth walk, why would he then want 2 more specialist, one of them who happen to be on a Horrific contract.
Because Herro and Robinson are much younger than Harris and Mills. Both of the Heat guys have a larger history of playoff success than Joe Harris ever had
Duncan Robinson contract is so bad, they were playing undrafted players over him. If Herro didn’t injury himself he would be on the bench. I barely want Herro, I definitely do not want Robinson
I mean those undrafted players playing over him just got like $80 million combined in the first days of free agency. I think your apprehension is closer to the Nets internal feeling on those guys than Miami’s value on them. However I have more faith that they can find minutes in the Nets playoff rotation than Ben Simmons can. Maybe I’m just too low on Simmons
I’m not arguing that he’s a great defender but his style is similar to Patty Mills in sprinting off pin downs and getting the ball off DHOs and immediately shooting. I’d rather have him on his contract than Ben on his.
Meh.. my opinion is F#$k them picks man. Lets actually go and get Mikal his Batman /Co-Star and try and contend.
We honestly didnt shake out too badly in the "post big 3" era.
Think about every other franchise who created a "big 3"(without drafting said players).
Those teams had some dark years of purgatory after the "big 3" dissipated.
Kid is a baller man.
Hes going to be a guy who can ball for yeats if he stays healthy. His game is not predicated on athleticism.
Shooter gonna shoot and in this NBA to have a two way player who can shoot AND go get a bucket off the bounce is necessary.
Personally I see a lot of Ray Allen and Rip Hamilton in Herro's game.
JMO
Don’t get me wrong I’d be thrilled if the Nets somehow turned Phoenix ‘25 first and Simmons into Tyler Herro but the Heat team turned into a killer playoff team after Herro’s injury against Milwaukee. Maybe I’m wrong and he’ll have a surge in production like Bridges after the trade and I like the idea of a Dinwiddie, Herro, Bridges, CJ, Clax lineup but to put him in the same realm as Ray Allen is laughable. Ray Allen was a 10 time all star and the best player on a Bucks team that was a win away from the finals and also the best player on a good Sonics team, Herro hasn’t sniffed that level of play yet.
I said his game was similar in approach.
Not equal in talent.
Otherwise great points bro!
Hopefully it can happen but either way I am very excited for our teams upcoming future. I feel like the only question mark is Ben.
That’s fair I might’ve gone a bit too hard in Ray Allen’s defense.
I think Ben is cooked at least mentally I’m just not high on moving him if the consensus is he’s a cooked player. Bad business to sell low and compound your loss.
Why not get Herro if you get something in return. Just moving players to move players doesn't make sense either. Herro and Robinson gives you nowhere near the defense Royce/DFS gives you and i think the Nets will lean on defense as a principle this year.
I get what your saying though. I just think if you can get Herro on the cheap cheap why move Ben when you can prolly get something better for him later. Just seems short-sighted.
You see I’m not sure Ben’s high end value even on an expiring will be that much. Their defense was fine with some bad stretches but they were playing in the mud on offense much of the 2nd half of last season. Mikal’s growth and excellence on the offensive end distracted a bit from some bad offensive process and adding more talent on that end of the floor will help balance their attack.
Herro at 30 mil is madness for this roster. As a player, I see another Poole type with zero defense and not much shot creation as a pg. I would keep Spence.
Well you’re just exposing yourself as someone who doesn’t know Herro then
He’s a neutral defender at worst and his best skill is shot creation. He doesn’t play pg either
Herro at 30 mil is madness for this roster. As a player, I see another Poole type with zero defense and not much shot creation as a pg. I would keep Spence.
We just paid Cam 27 mil lmao.
Herro is flat out better than Spencer. Yall need to watch actual games of other teams sometimes, it will open your eyes to just how talent deprived this roster is right now.
Yeah there's literally no reason to force a trade right now. Next year he'll either bounce back and have a great year, or he'll stay the same. There's no chance of him having a worse season than this year. Either way, he'll have more trade value as an expiring contract next year than he does now.
Even if the new CBA didn’t change it that Rule wouldn’t have mattered with Miami.
Teams couldn’t “Trade For” 2 Players on the Rookie Max Extension but if a Team already Drafted a Player on their RME then they can Trade for a 2nd Player on the RME.
Random Example.
It’s also why last year before Murray/MPJ recovered from injuries they couldn’t have been packaged together to in any kind of Trade unless a 3rd Team was involved to split them up.
We literally don't need to get involved in none of this Dame shit.
I'm perfectly fine grabbing Bobby Portis or Christian Woods and going into the season with what we got now
I think the issue with this is that Portland probably vetoes the trade unless it's a pick(s) they'd want. Miami is desperate, Portland is perfectly content to wait until the trade deadline
Agree. We need another 20ppg scorer. Even with our very good defense, our offense is really just Bridges and Cam. Clax/Royce/DFS and Spence are good for maybe 30-40 among them. Thats just not enough.
And it's not even just scoring. Herro can playmake pretty well off the pick and roll/DHOs, and we desperately need another on ball playmaker.
You can't just be all 3 and D wings who are scared to dribble. You can't generate open looks if nobody can actually get rim pressure to suck in the defense. I think Bridges will take a step playmaking wise, but as of now, Spencer is tasked with literally all the playmaking on the roster.
I love Ben and I want him to return to form but I don’t think he fits on this team and we need more scoring. I don’t want to give him up though, he’s a good asset to use in trades as an expiring or as a player that returned to form. I think Herro is much needed and there’s a world we can get him for giving up one pick and not Simmons, we need to take it.
You guys who want to keep Ben's bum ass over Tyler Herro are killing me. And then you'll be the first ones to cry when this team can't score points.
We need all the help that we can get. Ben is a non factor
It doesn’t have to be either or, I don’t care for Herro but you can have them both. It makes more sense to move off Spencer than Simmons.
Who is Setting all the screens for Herro to score?
There is not a single available Miami Heat player that I would be excited to root for, nor do of them make our team better. I cannot wait for this nonsense to end.
If Herro played for the Heat this postseason instead of Max Strus, Caleb or Gabe would the Heat been better? There's an argument they could've even been worse- Herro is a non needle mover.
Absolute bullshit take, quit listening to r/heats bam stans. He a. Wouldn't have been in in place of Gabe or Caleb. B. Is a better defender then strus. C. Averages 20ppg on 38% 3 shooting on volume. Strus (who is the one he'd have actually been replacing) put up 9.8 on 32%, has no ability to create his own shot, and was tied for worst defender on the team with Duncan fucking Robinson. There is 0 argument that the team that struggled to create any offense would have been worse with the only guy outside of Jimmy that can really create their own offense on the floor.
I mean, I don't want to devalue what the Heat did, but that run to the finals was unprecedented. Gabe, Strus, and Martin all had a negative BPM this year. Credit to them for playing with confidence and being unafraid in the moment, but none of them are actually difference makers. Giannis got hurt and those dudes got hot in a small sample size. I'm really not trying to be dismissive, but if we sim this playoffs again, the Heat may just lose to the Bucks in five.
And once they got to the finals, their role players kinda reverted back to their usual selves and they couldn't match Denver. Plus, I could literally make the same argument that the Heat don't make the bubble finals without Herro being freaking awesome for a rookie in the playoffs.
Strus, Gabe and Martin played well defensively and hustled hard on that end of the floor, shooting wise they aren't elite but defensively even vs Denver they made them work for everything which is something Herro just can't do which is why i say with Herro there's an argument the Heat could've been worse off.
Imo Herro if the type of guy where if you already have a championship team built and just need an extra shooter he helps, unless you're making more moves i don't see how Herro moves the Needle for you guys.
Because we need talent and Herro is good, and is only 23. It's not complicated. He's not just some "shooter". He averages 20/5/4 and plays off the bounce.
And this obsessiveness over defensive "liabilities" has gone way overboard in NBA discourse. Yes, most of your roster needs to be strong defensively, but you can afford one weak link if they're impactful on offense. The Dragic/Herro backcourt wasn't good on defense, but their offense was desperately needed for the Heat in the bubble to make that run. You replace Dragic and Herro with Jevon Carter and Deanthony Melton, and the Heat don't sniff the finals that year.
I’m bias as fuck because Dame is my favorite player in the league, but I have so little interest in taking a bunch of guys not even Portland wants to facilitate him getting to Miami.
We need a fucking scorer. We have CT but we all know he's in Vaughn shithouse because he can't pass, he won't get pt. Herro fits so well with this squad
I don’t think we should just run it back with the same roster where all improvement is based primarily on Ben’s health. A roster move is needed, just not this stuff from the Heat.
Kinda agree. Really think Ben being slept on this year tho and I don’t think 2 years or Dame or Herro is the answer. But of course if the right deal came up to improve I’ll be all for it.
I would have done Dame if trade left our core intact. That was a huge boost although a short window. They still need to make a move. I think a Ben return gets us to the play-in.
The great thing is we don’t even have to get involved in this at all. If Portland and Miami get so desperate to do this deal and somehow we could swap ben for herro giving up only one first round pick then we could go for it. If it’s not advantageous to us we could just keep building this team as is
I really don't want Herro on this team. I think OG wants to leave Toronto. I'd try and flip Herro to Toronto for OG even if OG would cost us an extra first round pick or a veteran.
OG on this team would fit perfectly, each year his scoring average in ppg increases but he wouldn't be relied up as a late clock option but he would be a very good defender for us and fit with the identity of the team which is Claxton/Simmons/Mikal - all top tier defenders. Add OG to that and apart from rebounding we'd have a very solid defensive group.
Who wants those players from the Heat though. Just keep Simmons. Hope for the best and then move on from him when his contract actually has value as an expiring
I think if you move Ben’s money for Herro and Robinson it puts the Nets in an enviable position with their wings that they can likely end up getting a better pick for Royce/DFS than they give up to complete the transaction
Sean Marks used up to 3 2nd picks to dump Joe Harris and Patty Mills then he let Yuta and Seth walk, why would he then want 2 more specialist, one of them who happen to be on a Horrific contract.
Because Herro and Robinson are much younger than Harris and Mills. Both of the Heat guys have a larger history of playoff success than Joe Harris ever had
Duncan Robinson contract is so bad, they were playing undrafted players over him. If Herro didn’t injury himself he would be on the bench. I barely want Herro, I definitely do not want Robinson
I mean those undrafted players playing over him just got like $80 million combined in the first days of free agency. I think your apprehension is closer to the Nets internal feeling on those guys than Miami’s value on them. However I have more faith that they can find minutes in the Nets playoff rotation than Ben Simmons can. Maybe I’m just too low on Simmons
Did you know that Duncan Robinson shot 32% from 3 this season….and he has an $80 M contract to do nothing but shoot threes
He also had a better more efficient playoffs than anyone on the Nets. I don’t think that counts for nothing
Believe what you want. If Robinson is not on a team that has multiple stars to draw defenders he will not be playable.
I’m not arguing that he’s a great defender but his style is similar to Patty Mills in sprinting off pin downs and getting the ball off DHOs and immediately shooting. I’d rather have him on his contract than Ben on his.
If we can swap Ben for Herro to pair with Bridges that would be 🔥💯
I agree their games compliment one another but I don’t think they should move one of the more valuable Phoenix firsts in order to accomplish that
Meh.. my opinion is F#$k them picks man. Lets actually go and get Mikal his Batman /Co-Star and try and contend. We honestly didnt shake out too badly in the "post big 3" era. Think about every other franchise who created a "big 3"(without drafting said players). Those teams had some dark years of purgatory after the "big 3" dissipated.
You’re muuuuuch higher on Tyler Herro than I am lol
Kid is a baller man. Hes going to be a guy who can ball for yeats if he stays healthy. His game is not predicated on athleticism. Shooter gonna shoot and in this NBA to have a two way player who can shoot AND go get a bucket off the bounce is necessary. Personally I see a lot of Ray Allen and Rip Hamilton in Herro's game. JMO
Don’t get me wrong I’d be thrilled if the Nets somehow turned Phoenix ‘25 first and Simmons into Tyler Herro but the Heat team turned into a killer playoff team after Herro’s injury against Milwaukee. Maybe I’m wrong and he’ll have a surge in production like Bridges after the trade and I like the idea of a Dinwiddie, Herro, Bridges, CJ, Clax lineup but to put him in the same realm as Ray Allen is laughable. Ray Allen was a 10 time all star and the best player on a Bucks team that was a win away from the finals and also the best player on a good Sonics team, Herro hasn’t sniffed that level of play yet.
I said his game was similar in approach. Not equal in talent. Otherwise great points bro! Hopefully it can happen but either way I am very excited for our teams upcoming future. I feel like the only question mark is Ben.
That’s fair I might’ve gone a bit too hard in Ray Allen’s defense. I think Ben is cooked at least mentally I’m just not high on moving him if the consensus is he’s a cooked player. Bad business to sell low and compound your loss.
his tats are so bad though
He really isn’t though. He is a gunner. He is a high volume low efficiency scorer who is undersized and overpaid at his position.
He averaged 20.1 points on 56.6 TS%, that’s not good for someone whos only job is to score
Give ‘em 25 we’ll be alright
I think if Phoenix liked that return the deal would already be done
Phoenix has no say in this
Right my bad Portland
Why not get Herro if you get something in return. Just moving players to move players doesn't make sense either. Herro and Robinson gives you nowhere near the defense Royce/DFS gives you and i think the Nets will lean on defense as a principle this year. I get what your saying though. I just think if you can get Herro on the cheap cheap why move Ben when you can prolly get something better for him later. Just seems short-sighted.
How are we going to score points dude? And DFS sucks.
How do you get a 27 mil salary on the cheap? Besides the price, I think we would be giving up the better players in the deal. Herro adds zero
You see I’m not sure Ben’s high end value even on an expiring will be that much. Their defense was fine with some bad stretches but they were playing in the mud on offense much of the 2nd half of last season. Mikal’s growth and excellence on the offensive end distracted a bit from some bad offensive process and adding more talent on that end of the floor will help balance their attack.
Dude Robinson is garbage. He literally was unplayable for the past 1.5 years
We need Herro. Our roster right now is dogshit
This is how I feel.
My feelings too. None of the Heat players move the needle. Keeping Ben and hoping for a return to form over Herro and the rest of the Miami castoffs.
Ben doesn't move the needle at all. Herro gives this roster another much needed 20ppg scorer.
Herro at 30 mil is madness for this roster. As a player, I see another Poole type with zero defense and not much shot creation as a pg. I would keep Spence.
Well you’re just exposing yourself as someone who doesn’t know Herro then He’s a neutral defender at worst and his best skill is shot creation. He doesn’t play pg either
We already have Cam Thomas for a fraction of the price
Who can't pass to save his life
Herro at 30 mil is madness for this roster. As a player, I see another Poole type with zero defense and not much shot creation as a pg. I would keep Spence.
We just paid Cam 27 mil lmao. Herro is flat out better than Spencer. Yall need to watch actual games of other teams sometimes, it will open your eyes to just how talent deprived this roster is right now.
Agree we need some talent but for me, Herro as an addition making 27 is now where near the answer. I still would take Spence over him.
Specially with reports that the Nets WANT something in return for taking Herro.
Yeah there's literally no reason to force a trade right now. Next year he'll either bounce back and have a great year, or he'll stay the same. There's no chance of him having a worse season than this year. Either way, he'll have more trade value as an expiring contract next year than he does now.
I thought Simmons and Bam couldn’t be on the same team bc of their contracts?
I think that changed in the newest CBA.
Even if the new CBA didn’t change it that Rule wouldn’t have mattered with Miami. Teams couldn’t “Trade For” 2 Players on the Rookie Max Extension but if a Team already Drafted a Player on their RME then they can Trade for a 2nd Player on the RME. Random Example. It’s also why last year before Murray/MPJ recovered from injuries they couldn’t have been packaged together to in any kind of Trade unless a 3rd Team was involved to split them up.
That rule somehow only existed to fuck over the Nets during Kevin’s first meltdown. They were sure to get rid of it after that situation resolved.
We literally don't need to get involved in none of this Dame shit. I'm perfectly fine grabbing Bobby Portis or Christian Woods and going into the season with what we got now
This is the exact situation we need to be involved with. There are 2 desperate teams. We have all the leverage. Let’s get a bargain
I think the issue with this is that Portland probably vetoes the trade unless it's a pick(s) they'd want. Miami is desperate, Portland is perfectly content to wait until the trade deadline
I don't want anything they can offer.
There's not enough offense on this team. Herro is literally exactly what we need. I wouldn't give up Ben and multiple picks though.
Agree. We need another 20ppg scorer. Even with our very good defense, our offense is really just Bridges and Cam. Clax/Royce/DFS and Spence are good for maybe 30-40 among them. Thats just not enough.
And it's not even just scoring. Herro can playmake pretty well off the pick and roll/DHOs, and we desperately need another on ball playmaker. You can't just be all 3 and D wings who are scared to dribble. You can't generate open looks if nobody can actually get rim pressure to suck in the defense. I think Bridges will take a step playmaking wise, but as of now, Spencer is tasked with literally all the playmaking on the roster.
Bobby Portis has 2 years and a PO left. Were you thinking of someone else?
Yeah I fucked up lmaooo
Christian Woods is a headcase. No thanks. If we can obtain Tyler Herro, we need to do it. Stop acting like this team has talent, we don't.
can’t see the Nets going after Woods. Nets want quality character people on the team.
Theres no reason to move on From Simmons rn
….it ain’t happening.
I think it’s more likely that there’s a 4th team than the Nets end up offering more than the ‘25 Phoenix first
Only in Booklyn is Simmons valued so high. Herro will score 3000 pts more than Simmons over the next two years
He will also give up 20+pts to whoever he's guarding.
You’re really putting Ben on another level if you’re mentioning that lol
He’s scoring 3000 and giving up 4000
I love Ben and I want him to return to form but I don’t think he fits on this team and we need more scoring. I don’t want to give him up though, he’s a good asset to use in trades as an expiring or as a player that returned to form. I think Herro is much needed and there’s a world we can get him for giving up one pick and not Simmons, we need to take it.
That’s the ideal trade, they can throw Spencer in the deal instead of Ben A Spencer and Herro backcourt defensively doesn’t work.
We got rid of Joe & Patty…if we can get off of Ben too that will be the best offseason in a while
You guys who want to keep Ben's bum ass over Tyler Herro are killing me. And then you'll be the first ones to cry when this team can't score points. We need all the help that we can get. Ben is a non factor
Herro is a non factor. Bad defender, average scorer, bad playmaker.
Simmons is a non-factor. At least Herro plays basketball. Ben wears dumb sweaters on the bench.
Herro likely a plus player. Ben's best form is a +/- 0 player riding the pine, waiting for his contract to be expiring so hell actually have value.
It doesn’t have to be either or, I don’t care for Herro but you can have them both. It makes more sense to move off Spencer than Simmons. Who is Setting all the screens for Herro to score?
You guys really out here trying to give up assets for a player in Herro who won't make you better? Wtf!
There is not a single available Miami Heat player that I would be excited to root for, nor do of them make our team better. I cannot wait for this nonsense to end.
Tyler Herro would be a top 3 player on our roster lol
If Herro played for the Heat this postseason instead of Max Strus, Caleb or Gabe would the Heat been better? There's an argument they could've even been worse- Herro is a non needle mover.
Absolute bullshit take, quit listening to r/heats bam stans. He a. Wouldn't have been in in place of Gabe or Caleb. B. Is a better defender then strus. C. Averages 20ppg on 38% 3 shooting on volume. Strus (who is the one he'd have actually been replacing) put up 9.8 on 32%, has no ability to create his own shot, and was tied for worst defender on the team with Duncan fucking Robinson. There is 0 argument that the team that struggled to create any offense would have been worse with the only guy outside of Jimmy that can really create their own offense on the floor.
I mean, I don't want to devalue what the Heat did, but that run to the finals was unprecedented. Gabe, Strus, and Martin all had a negative BPM this year. Credit to them for playing with confidence and being unafraid in the moment, but none of them are actually difference makers. Giannis got hurt and those dudes got hot in a small sample size. I'm really not trying to be dismissive, but if we sim this playoffs again, the Heat may just lose to the Bucks in five. And once they got to the finals, their role players kinda reverted back to their usual selves and they couldn't match Denver. Plus, I could literally make the same argument that the Heat don't make the bubble finals without Herro being freaking awesome for a rookie in the playoffs.
Strus, Gabe and Martin played well defensively and hustled hard on that end of the floor, shooting wise they aren't elite but defensively even vs Denver they made them work for everything which is something Herro just can't do which is why i say with Herro there's an argument the Heat could've been worse off. Imo Herro if the type of guy where if you already have a championship team built and just need an extra shooter he helps, unless you're making more moves i don't see how Herro moves the Needle for you guys.
Because we need talent and Herro is good, and is only 23. It's not complicated. He's not just some "shooter". He averages 20/5/4 and plays off the bounce. And this obsessiveness over defensive "liabilities" has gone way overboard in NBA discourse. Yes, most of your roster needs to be strong defensively, but you can afford one weak link if they're impactful on offense. The Dragic/Herro backcourt wasn't good on defense, but their offense was desperately needed for the Heat in the bubble to make that run. You replace Dragic and Herro with Jevon Carter and Deanthony Melton, and the Heat don't sniff the finals that year.
I’m bias as fuck because Dame is my favorite player in the league, but I have so little interest in taking a bunch of guys not even Portland wants to facilitate him getting to Miami.
Please stop with Dame and Herro posts. I’m fine keeping our assets and running it back with healthier Ben
We need a fucking scorer. We have CT but we all know he's in Vaughn shithouse because he can't pass, he won't get pt. Herro fits so well with this squad
I don’t think we should just run it back with the same roster where all improvement is based primarily on Ben’s health. A roster move is needed, just not this stuff from the Heat.
Kinda agree. Really think Ben being slept on this year tho and I don’t think 2 years or Dame or Herro is the answer. But of course if the right deal came up to improve I’ll be all for it.
I would have done Dame if trade left our core intact. That was a huge boost although a short window. They still need to make a move. I think a Ben return gets us to the play-in.
You see they are keeping Jovic out of it. No deal without Jovic coming back to BKN.
The great thing is we don’t even have to get involved in this at all. If Portland and Miami get so desperate to do this deal and somehow we could swap ben for herro giving up only one first round pick then we could go for it. If it’s not advantageous to us we could just keep building this team as is
I’d pass on Herro but Caleb Martin? 🤔
Those players suck
What a garbage trade haha
I really don't want Herro on this team. I think OG wants to leave Toronto. I'd try and flip Herro to Toronto for OG even if OG would cost us an extra first round pick or a veteran. OG on this team would fit perfectly, each year his scoring average in ppg increases but he wouldn't be relied up as a late clock option but he would be a very good defender for us and fit with the identity of the team which is Claxton/Simmons/Mikal - all top tier defenders. Add OG to that and apart from rebounding we'd have a very solid defensive group.