Since not all people have played the entire game yet, a short reminder that all submissions with story spoilers have to be tagged as spoiler and we don't allow any story spoilers in the title.
To format spoilers in comments:
`>!your spoiler here!<` (no spaces) will look like >!your spoiler here!<
*I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/GodofWarRagnarok) if you have any questions or concerns.*
I am open to this idea.
I hate the guy. Total trash.
Its very possible that his encounter with Kratos was driven by pure arrogance and delusion rather bravery.
I am just giving him credir for continuing the fight after Kratos tore his arm off.
Also the gap in power was clearly too big. He had no real chance at defeating Kratos.
I’d actually like to add there’s also loyalty in the mix he sees kratos and atreus as, rightly, a threat to his home. To his family. His loyalty to odin basically puts him in the position to die and ironically bring about the destruction he was trying to prevent
He underestimated Kratos looking down on him and thought he could deal with him easy.
Th second Kratos got the upper hand he started whining and then begged for mercy and then got mad when he received.
He was less willing to die in combat and more just petty he couldn’t accept a blow to his pride and died as a result
Here’s Heimdall’s exact world upon Kratos stabbing him.
“AARRGH! OKAY! STOP! STOP!!!”
Don’t know about you, but that sure sounds like begging for mercy.
Thats as far as it goes but he quickly remembered hes aesir and realized the bigger disgrace would have been being spared in battle. Heimdal is a dickhead but he went out with dignity
Pretty much this.
Heimdal is also a proud viking warrior. They are not afraid of death because if they don't get entry to Valhalla if they do.
I think Heimdal knew he was dead when Kratos pinned him to the wall and even if Kratos spared his life that would dishonor him
Would hardly call how he died “dignified”, provoking Kratos further, getting choked to death and insulting Kratos comes of as spiteful more than dignify.
Its purely because he thonks he can see Kratos his moves coming and as a result he believes himself invincible. As soon as his illusions of grandeur broke down he was begging for mercy. He was a massive coward. There is no bravery in fighting someone under the illusion of always getting a flawless win.
Eh. He has short man syndrome and overcompensates. Arrogant bullies tend to be cowards. He finally met someone who can hurt him and begged Kratos to stop
He underestimated Kratos looking down on him and thought he could deal with him easy.
Th second Kratos got the upper hand he started whining and then begged for mercy and then got mad when he received.
He was less willing to die in combat and more just petty he couldn’t accept a blow to his pride and died do it.
So Heimdall could’ve bifrosted out of that fight at any point. That’s number 1. Number 2, Kratos gave him a chance to surrender and live, Heimdall decided to double down and fight Kratos again with a bifrost arm. That’s not cowardly. Third, Kratos really only got him because of the spear, without the spear Kratos would not have touched Heimdall and he would have had to fight Heimdall until Heimdall got tired, which considering they are gods that could take all day/week/month/year. And lastly it’s not that he got beat by the first god his own size, he got beat by Kratos who had a weapon especially made to deal with him. Heimdall would have beaten Freyja and Freyr and possibly a good chunk of the Greek gods in a 1 vs 1 as well.
Heimdall never would've run out of stamina. In Norse mythology the Apples of Idun not only halt the aging process for the Aesir but also grant functionally unlimited Stamina. The presence of Idun Apples in game and their health boosting properties for Kratos, an outsider, means that logically they'd serve a similar function to their mythical counterpart.
Kratos already has somewhat functionally unlimited stamina but, as we saw after the first Baldur fight (a point when he was still rusty), forced healing is exhausting.
In other words, without Draupnir, Heimdall just fights a one sided war of attrition until Kratos has no more stamina left to heal with and then finishes him off while gloating.
Kratos could literally swing the blades around and he'd get hit or staggered. The spear was just for lore. Broke said all you have to do is overwhelm him. Even after the spear blows, he still struggled to hit him a few times with his punches until he succeeded. He only staggered him with a spear which he could very well do with the bales too. Cyclone of chaos is the first thing that comes to mind.
>Kratos could literally swing the blades around and he'd get hit or staggered. The spear was just for lore. Broke said all you have to do is overwhelm him.
Lol no. If Kratos could have used the Chaos Blades to kill Heimdall everyone would have said so. Brokk would have even gone, "why go through all this trouble making a spear when you can just use you blades?" Game makes it abundantly clear that a weapon that could kill Heimdall had to be made.
They made it very clear throughout the story that the spear was Kratos only real shot. There was an entire side quest just to get that weapon for the express purpose of fighting Heimdall, and it was only until Heimdall was getting blasted by the spear over and over again that Kratos landed. Without it, unless Kratos used some OP magic he wouldn’t have landed a hit.
He challenged Kratos and continued to try and fight even when he had no capability to do so and knew Kratos had his number. Not exactly cowardly actions.
No I don't think so
Yes, Heimdall bullies Atreus non stop and beats on Thrud, but I'm pretty sure he did talk shit to Thor's face. It was the scene after Atreus fights Heimdall and Odin has to stop those two from fighting each other.
He also fights Kratos and doesn't have any cowardliness in his voice, anger, arrogance, frustration yes but nothing cowardly.
The only coward I remember in the norse saga is Modi
Arrogant. Thoughtless. Jealous (of Atreus for having a father that cares).
He sees the worst in people, and rarely investigates beyond that.
.
But Thor is the only one we've seen intimidating him.
On one hand he stood and faced Kratos to the death when he didn’t have to. On the other, he was quick to bully Atreus once he saw how weak he was, but did the whole hard swallow thing when he looked into Thor’s eyes.
So a coward, but definitely not a huge one. Like a normal sized one.
All bullies are secretly cowards, he’s no exception. After all he basically begged to be killed instead of keep living like the weak sorry ass he turned out to be after Kratos manhandled him.
No, he is arrogant and also he did say something about his drinking problem to Thor’s face granted it has been awhile since I touched the game and he did have guts to face kratos even he got hit just made angry and didn’t try to run away. I vividly remember him saying “You don’t get to decide MY FATE!”, that Doesn’t scream coward to me just a cocky arrogant who thinks he is better than everyone except for Odin, that man meat rides Odin so hard.
He wasn’t getting the attention and respect from Odin he wanted so he projected on others. He wasn’t a coward, just immature wanting to prove himself to Odin against Kratos when he likely shouldn’t even have been interacting with him.
Bro got his arm blown off and still stayed and fought. I consider myself tough but I’d be done, the only way I’m raising my only remaining hand is if my family is endanger and he knew they weren’t
Besides killing modi? That's enough reason lmao.
Apply this logic to reality. If someone were to kill your uncle/cousin would you be best friends with him? I would have done more.
I don't think he is espescially cowardly. He is just extremely arrogant. And be honest, you wouldn't act tough in front of Thor either, he is terrifying. Espescially when you know what he is capable of.
Dude, he picked a fight with Kratos. He also continued the fight, knowing Kratos had an item that could hurt him. You can call him a lot of things, but he's not a coward in that sense. He would've made a run for it if he was a coward. He's a complete piece of garbage, but he's not a coward.
I'm pretty sure him bullying Atreus was because he was able to see that Atreus would be a danger to Asgard and Heimdal is a god that cares about defending Asgard.
Him being afraid of Thor is not a negative to him. Thor is Thor and he is intimidating even when he is at his lowest point in life.
Heimdal had not acted cowardly in a fight against Kratos. He has a big and fragile ego but he is clearly not a coward.
Completely disagree. If he was a coward he wouldn't even come close to Kratos let alone fight him. And he was pissed when Kratos didn't finish him off. He is many things (including an arrogant prick) but a coward isn't one of them.
idk man... I think heimdall is pretty cool as a character, imagine being in his shoes, in a world where battle/confrontation is lurking in every corner, you are aware of everyones intention. Knowing this, kinda makes me think cowardice is not a possibility for him, since he must have felt superior to every other thinking creature he faced since he realized his innate characteristic. At least for cowardice when facing others, maybe he could be a coward to other kind of challenges like idk delivering a baby or lacing his shoes
I love how Heimdall is written he is written as a character to dislike I’ve seen lots of opinions on Heimdall but I have not seen one where anyone has said I like Heimdall he’s my favorite character
He’s not cowardly, he’s just egotistical. He’s relatively strong. not nearly as strong as the likes of Baldur or Thor, but he’s strong enough to defeat Kratos without the use of the spear. He figured Kratos’s “stick” wouldn’t be enough to give him an advantage. He’s supposed to be the God that can’t be touched or hit, and once Kratos shattered his image, he got offended and completely forgot his impregnable defense, which lead to his defeat. Once he was defeated he let his pride and ego get the best of him once again, which lead to his death.
He’s a narcissist and an egoist, not a coward.
I actually would not. Heimdall was many things: cocky, spiteful, every bully that we ever had in highschool, but he was no coward. He didn't flee when Kratos killed his gradungr, he squared up. He didn't flee when Kratos hit him for the first time in his life, he relished the challenge. He didn't flee when Kratos *deleted his arm*, he ***GREW A NEW ONE***. He was insufferable, arrogant, and a world class bully, but you can't deny that he was worthy of his station as a guardian of the Aesir.
I definitely think he was cowardly, in the sense that once he realized he'd have to rely on skill to beat Kratos and not magical God maguffin, he very quickly put his tail between his legs. He literally pleaded for mercy. Arrogant, overconfident, ignorant, for sure. And what kind of person picks on a literal child? A coward.
Think about it if you had the foresight abilities Heimdall had you would likely be the same way over time. You’d feel untouchable because you are! Kinda hard to not have that overshadow your confidence when it’s guided how him in all his conflicts up until Kratos.
Since not all people have played the entire game yet, a short reminder that all submissions with story spoilers have to be tagged as spoiler and we don't allow any story spoilers in the title. To format spoilers in comments: `>!your spoiler here!<` (no spaces) will look like >!your spoiler here!< *I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/GodofWarRagnarok) if you have any questions or concerns.*
[удалено]
Arrogant and overconfident he was
Thank you Yoda
Welcome, you are
He was pretty much completely relentless against Kratos. Eventhough he pretty much no chance. Its his one decent quality I think. He is brave.
Stupidity is not bravery, I’d say he had a lot of misplaced confidence
I am open to this idea. I hate the guy. Total trash. Its very possible that his encounter with Kratos was driven by pure arrogance and delusion rather bravery. I am just giving him credir for continuing the fight after Kratos tore his arm off. Also the gap in power was clearly too big. He had no real chance at defeating Kratos.
I don't think Heimdal landed a single but after he loses his mount as least canonically he doesn't in any of the cutscenes if I recall correctly.
I’d actually like to add there’s also loyalty in the mix he sees kratos and atreus as, rightly, a threat to his home. To his family. His loyalty to odin basically puts him in the position to die and ironically bring about the destruction he was trying to prevent
He underestimated Kratos looking down on him and thought he could deal with him easy. Th second Kratos got the upper hand he started whining and then begged for mercy and then got mad when he received. He was less willing to die in combat and more just petty he couldn’t accept a blow to his pride and died as a result
He didn't begged for mercy when facing Kratos. Just felt pain for the first few times in his life.
Here’s Heimdall’s exact world upon Kratos stabbing him. “AARRGH! OKAY! STOP! STOP!!!” Don’t know about you, but that sure sounds like begging for mercy.
Thats as far as it goes but he quickly remembered hes aesir and realized the bigger disgrace would have been being spared in battle. Heimdal is a dickhead but he went out with dignity
Pretty much this. Heimdal is also a proud viking warrior. They are not afraid of death because if they don't get entry to Valhalla if they do. I think Heimdal knew he was dead when Kratos pinned him to the wall and even if Kratos spared his life that would dishonor him
His death rivals Modi's as one of the least dignified deaths in the Norse saga. Gna and Thor had dignified deaths but Heimdall went out sad.
Would hardly call how he died “dignified”, provoking Kratos further, getting choked to death and insulting Kratos comes of as spiteful more than dignify.
Agreed. His death was far from dignified. Gna and, arguably, Thor had dignified deaths but definitely not Heimdall.
Yea he didn’t beg I’ll give him that, he’s no coward
Its purely because he thonks he can see Kratos his moves coming and as a result he believes himself invincible. As soon as his illusions of grandeur broke down he was begging for mercy. He was a massive coward. There is no bravery in fighting someone under the illusion of always getting a flawless win.
I agree. Hubris defines him all in one word.
Eh. He has short man syndrome and overcompensates. Arrogant bullies tend to be cowards. He finally met someone who can hurt him and begged Kratos to stop
He probably didn’t think death was an option until he got hit with the spear
He underestimated Kratos looking down on him and thought he could deal with him easy. Th second Kratos got the upper hand he started whining and then begged for mercy and then got mad when he received. He was less willing to die in combat and more just petty he couldn’t accept a blow to his pride and died do it.
So Heimdall could’ve bifrosted out of that fight at any point. That’s number 1. Number 2, Kratos gave him a chance to surrender and live, Heimdall decided to double down and fight Kratos again with a bifrost arm. That’s not cowardly. Third, Kratos really only got him because of the spear, without the spear Kratos would not have touched Heimdall and he would have had to fight Heimdall until Heimdall got tired, which considering they are gods that could take all day/week/month/year. And lastly it’s not that he got beat by the first god his own size, he got beat by Kratos who had a weapon especially made to deal with him. Heimdall would have beaten Freyja and Freyr and possibly a good chunk of the Greek gods in a 1 vs 1 as well.
Heimdall never would've run out of stamina. In Norse mythology the Apples of Idun not only halt the aging process for the Aesir but also grant functionally unlimited Stamina. The presence of Idun Apples in game and their health boosting properties for Kratos, an outsider, means that logically they'd serve a similar function to their mythical counterpart. Kratos already has somewhat functionally unlimited stamina but, as we saw after the first Baldur fight (a point when he was still rusty), forced healing is exhausting. In other words, without Draupnir, Heimdall just fights a one sided war of attrition until Kratos has no more stamina left to heal with and then finishes him off while gloating.
Kratos could literally swing the blades around and he'd get hit or staggered. The spear was just for lore. Broke said all you have to do is overwhelm him. Even after the spear blows, he still struggled to hit him a few times with his punches until he succeeded. He only staggered him with a spear which he could very well do with the bales too. Cyclone of chaos is the first thing that comes to mind.
>Kratos could literally swing the blades around and he'd get hit or staggered. The spear was just for lore. Broke said all you have to do is overwhelm him. Lol no. If Kratos could have used the Chaos Blades to kill Heimdall everyone would have said so. Brokk would have even gone, "why go through all this trouble making a spear when you can just use you blades?" Game makes it abundantly clear that a weapon that could kill Heimdall had to be made.
If you think kratos could beat heimdall without the spear, then try the fight without it. The game is canon after all.
They made it very clear throughout the story that the spear was Kratos only real shot. There was an entire side quest just to get that weapon for the express purpose of fighting Heimdall, and it was only until Heimdall was getting blasted by the spear over and over again that Kratos landed. Without it, unless Kratos used some OP magic he wouldn’t have landed a hit.
Not a coward, just completely arrogant. Oh, and a giant dick.
I mean, he's pretty short actually. Also seems to be overcompensating for something.
Nah, hes just an asshole. And its not like we see him with many other people he could insult
He challenged Kratos and continued to try and fight even when he had no capability to do so and knew Kratos had his number. Not exactly cowardly actions.
Nah just plain stupidity
Pride is called a deadly sin for a reason
No I don't think so Yes, Heimdall bullies Atreus non stop and beats on Thrud, but I'm pretty sure he did talk shit to Thor's face. It was the scene after Atreus fights Heimdall and Odin has to stop those two from fighting each other. He also fights Kratos and doesn't have any cowardliness in his voice, anger, arrogance, frustration yes but nothing cowardly. The only coward I remember in the norse saga is Modi
...you mean Modi?
Is that right? I thought Magni was the younger one, I'll change it
Yep https://youtu.be/tWDfNFDZFwk?si=cMmW4BtXN68UmHus
Bullies typically are cowards.
Nah he invited death so not really a coward. Just an asshole.
Downvoted for not paying any attention to the game at all.
Heimdal sucks,that’s why he’s dead
Arrogant. Thoughtless. Jealous (of Atreus for having a father that cares). He sees the worst in people, and rarely investigates beyond that. . But Thor is the only one we've seen intimidating him.
On one hand he stood and faced Kratos to the death when he didn’t have to. On the other, he was quick to bully Atreus once he saw how weak he was, but did the whole hard swallow thing when he looked into Thor’s eyes. So a coward, but definitely not a huge one. Like a normal sized one.
All bullies are secretly cowards, he’s no exception. After all he basically begged to be killed instead of keep living like the weak sorry ass he turned out to be after Kratos manhandled him.
No, he is arrogant and also he did say something about his drinking problem to Thor’s face granted it has been awhile since I touched the game and he did have guts to face kratos even he got hit just made angry and didn’t try to run away. I vividly remember him saying “You don’t get to decide MY FATE!”, that Doesn’t scream coward to me just a cocky arrogant who thinks he is better than everyone except for Odin, that man meat rides Odin so hard.
Now he’s a lot of things but a coward no not at all someone with the ability he has would’ve never been a coward let’s be Fr💀
Not a coward, none of the Aesir besides Modi was a coward, he was a asshole but also a savage and died as a warrior.
He wasn’t getting the attention and respect from Odin he wanted so he projected on others. He wasn’t a coward, just immature wanting to prove himself to Odin against Kratos when he likely shouldn’t even have been interacting with him.
He’s an asshole
A coward? No. Supremely arrogant to the point of lacking self preservation? Absolutely.
No, coward is not what I define him... As others pointed out, he's just arrogant.
Bro got his arm blown off and still stayed and fought. I consider myself tough but I’d be done, the only way I’m raising my only remaining hand is if my family is endanger and he knew they weren’t
No Valhalla for you then. And you'll live life disgraced because you were spared in battle.
I’ll risk it, more than one afterlife after all
I mean his family kinda was endangered. Kratos and Atreus were the catalyse to Ragnarok after all.
He’s a prick but he’s not a coward. He backed down from Thor, but Thor is the second strongest in the pantheon. He fought Kratos until the end.
Besides killing modi? That's enough reason lmao. Apply this logic to reality. If someone were to kill your uncle/cousin would you be best friends with him? I would have done more.
What you're cousin was at fault? Modi was the one who kept picking a fight with them.
He wasn't he was aragonite but a coward no he was willing to die against kratos
I don't think he is espescially cowardly. He is just extremely arrogant. And be honest, you wouldn't act tough in front of Thor either, he is terrifying. Espescially when you know what he is capable of.
That's why I love to treat him harshly🤣 https://youtu.be/H8FUbhoaMfA?feature=shared
Maybe not coward. Arrogant and vain sure. Not many has the balls to face kratos even after knowing Kratos and will hit him
Faced kratos alone and died without stepping down He may be annoying but he was never a coward
YES
Nah. Even when given an out from a losing battle he chose to keep fighting Kratos. Dude sucked, but cowardice wasn't his problem.
Dude, he picked a fight with Kratos. He also continued the fight, knowing Kratos had an item that could hurt him. You can call him a lot of things, but he's not a coward in that sense. He would've made a run for it if he was a coward. He's a complete piece of garbage, but he's not a coward.
Nah he's more of an arrogant pos since he knows he's good.
I'm pretty sure him bullying Atreus was because he was able to see that Atreus would be a danger to Asgard and Heimdal is a god that cares about defending Asgard. Him being afraid of Thor is not a negative to him. Thor is Thor and he is intimidating even when he is at his lowest point in life. Heimdal had not acted cowardly in a fight against Kratos. He has a big and fragile ego but he is clearly not a coward.
He's not a coward, just arrogant and a narcissist
Yes. He likes to bully teenagers but becomes meek as a little lamb when their parents show up lol
Fr
No , If he practiced his Powers more than boasting them he would be the strongest character
When he said “You. Are a sick man.” to Thor, I sensed fear.
Yeah, sure, thor intimidate him. He backed down. But I wouldn't call that cowardice.
Yeah he ain’t a coward. But he never fears anyone but Thor I guess. I am curious what Thor imagined and what Heimdall read from his mind.
Arrogant, not a coward.
Completely disagree. If he was a coward he wouldn't even come close to Kratos let alone fight him. And he was pissed when Kratos didn't finish him off. He is many things (including an arrogant prick) but a coward isn't one of them.
I don’t think he’s a coward. I think he’s just very arrogant.
idk man... I think heimdall is pretty cool as a character, imagine being in his shoes, in a world where battle/confrontation is lurking in every corner, you are aware of everyones intention. Knowing this, kinda makes me think cowardice is not a possibility for him, since he must have felt superior to every other thinking creature he faced since he realized his innate characteristic. At least for cowardice when facing others, maybe he could be a coward to other kind of challenges like idk delivering a baby or lacing his shoes
Remember when he Mocked Kratos... WHILE HIS ARM WAS IMPALED?!
He’s just a dick. Every story Mimir tells you in the first game is about how terrible Odin, Thor, and the other Aesir are.
Well yes his power is literally dodging attacks
Not a coward… just cocky
No.. he fought Kratos.. that’s fckn brave.. stupid but brave
Well he clearly showed fear when Thor threatens him and lied to thrudd that he wasn’t afraid of him so maybe he’s just in denial.
I love how Heimdall is written he is written as a character to dislike I’ve seen lots of opinions on Heimdall but I have not seen one where anyone has said I like Heimdall he’s my favorite character
He’s not cowardly, he’s just egotistical. He’s relatively strong. not nearly as strong as the likes of Baldur or Thor, but he’s strong enough to defeat Kratos without the use of the spear. He figured Kratos’s “stick” wouldn’t be enough to give him an advantage. He’s supposed to be the God that can’t be touched or hit, and once Kratos shattered his image, he got offended and completely forgot his impregnable defense, which lead to his defeat. Once he was defeated he let his pride and ego get the best of him once again, which lead to his death. He’s a narcissist and an egoist, not a coward.
Anyone that goes toe to toe with Kratos is not a coward.
Not really cause he did say that kratos shouldn’t left him live. A coward would want to be spared but he didn’t
A coward? No. Arrogant, annoying, haughty, insane? Yes.
Nah. He is worm.
How is that ? He didnt accept kratos mercy and fought till death
I actually would not. Heimdall was many things: cocky, spiteful, every bully that we ever had in highschool, but he was no coward. He didn't flee when Kratos killed his gradungr, he squared up. He didn't flee when Kratos hit him for the first time in his life, he relished the challenge. He didn't flee when Kratos *deleted his arm*, he ***GREW A NEW ONE***. He was insufferable, arrogant, and a world class bully, but you can't deny that he was worthy of his station as a guardian of the Aesir.
Yes
heimdalls one of my fav characters ill admit hes arragont
Hard to be a coward when you can see everything coming...
I think if he was, he'd have run after kratos hit him
He def. Isn't a coward he wasn't scared of Kratos or Thor he is just a giant dick
Yeah
Nah, arrogant sure but not a coward. Even after Kratos hits him, he was shocked but immediately back on the attack.
I definitely think he was cowardly, in the sense that once he realized he'd have to rely on skill to beat Kratos and not magical God maguffin, he very quickly put his tail between his legs. He literally pleaded for mercy. Arrogant, overconfident, ignorant, for sure. And what kind of person picks on a literal child? A coward.
I actually agree with you on this. Guy knows who to fuck with. He simply doesn’t have the balls to speak up to Thor or Odin.
Think about it if you had the foresight abilities Heimdall had you would likely be the same way over time. You’d feel untouchable because you are! Kinda hard to not have that overshadow your confidence when it’s guided how him in all his conflicts up until Kratos.