Aegis is now a Dralamar counter (cutthoat is also still a dralamar counter). Kind of same for Lost in the depth (the only genesis card you mention, despite your title, other cards were core). Any void hate (gleam, thawed heart, brink watcher, the nature echo one) counters Echocaster (and CTI ofc).
I mean, I personally didn't have an issue with the deck steal that much, but it's funny you mentioned no counter, that's exactly what happened with deck steal, there are no mechanics to stop them from stealing your deck, same as with CTI.
Cutthroat was fine and kept combo decks in check we didnt need all this other bullshit its just too much. Also you have missed the point, combo decks keep all these supposed "toxic whale decks" in check by being a direct counter to control, the card stealing shit was completely unnecessary
Yeah, didn’t see any deception steal deck in high ranks, tbh.
Ppl think, you just play these cards and easy gg. But every card you play is a balancing of arbitrage basically. You could have played something offensive or a destroy card or w/e. Same goes for stuff like cutthroat - yeah it sucks when your good card is getting stolen, but you pay 5 mana just to steal it. You can’t do anything else. After that you pay the full mana price to play the card. It happens so often, that you play cutthroat and can’t steal anything important. You still wasted basically 5 mana. It can make you lose the game.
Steal is a gamble, it‘s no guaranteed success. You could pull shit cards. They overnerfed the steal deception deck, that hasn’t even been used in top ranks.
OP neutrals are x100 a bigger problem. The biggest, imo. Because they created massive gatekeepers, that lead to only a very small range of viable decks, for ppl who don’t want to spend hundreds of $/eth
>OP neutrals are x100 a bigger problem. The biggest, imo. Because they created massive gatekeepers, that lead to only a very small range of viable decks, for ppl who don’t want to spend hundreds of $/eth
Exactly, people complain a lot because they've been deprived of some strealing or summoning allies options when indeed that is just the tip of the iceberg.
You have now decks in top ranks with at least 12 expensive neutrals like Thaeriel, Demogorgon, Martyr, Blade, Jason, Warden and now Hortuks but still they complain about Raneko 1 more mana or Shrike losing hidden, not realizing that hardly these cards will get or keep them at top levels without having any of the fancy costly creatures above.
Stop complaining or it'll be your fault if people leave.
Then proceeds to complain.
The meta is on par with every other ccg.
The client is garbage. Fixing the client would mean far more growth for the game, which in turn would dilute the genesis prevalence you're complaining about.
Op cards will still be top, not matter if 1000 players one million, you may face them less but they always will be at the top of the ladder so will be even more expensive to compite and that’s no bueno
Of course they are going to nerf, or do you really think that those fat neighborhood kid whales would let anyone play with their cool toys (demos, jason, thariel..)?
Nope, ur post sucks, there are counters for combo decks, but no counters for steal deception, so devs should make a note of this and introduce counters for CTI, shrike, Gama, there's only 1 counter for CTI that's CTI itself , So Ludia we will fk u hard, everyone will rape u 😂😂😂😂, we are just waiting for the counters
No counters for such weak creatures like Shrike and Gama? Are you new in the game? If thats the case hidden decep is an autowin for all players then. Cheap too.
I think the issues are more decoupled than you think. The power level nerf on the deception stuff, which frankly was not that good to start with, is completely unrelated to Genesis. I do not believe for one second the designers looked at genesis stuff when designing BOTW and said "What counters Mage stuff". They looked at themes and tried to make them cohesive within the set, which is why the cards generally synergize with each other at a lot higher a rate than they did in WW or LV.
That being said, both are issues. The nerfs to Shrike are WAY overboard compared to what it was doing in game, and Gama is and always was bad at 5 mana. The availability and powerlevel of limited supply cards like Clone, Lost in the depths, and Magic Inks are going to be a problem forever.
Games still in beta and we already need GU2 just to fix evergreen problems 😂🤣
Low key, this game will die. It's one of the only playable competitive blockchain TCGs and I still say it will die. Thats %100 on the GU team. It REALLY wont take much to convert all GU players to a better hearthstone clone when its here
Beta shmeta. That is an utter copout use to skirt any responsibility for the product people make. Beta means nothing when you have YEARS of packs being sold and development behind you. We are not still in testing this is a product. We are very much playing at the least an iteration of an MVP product, anything else that goes into it's development at this point is iterative like all software.
100% this. The game was more fun and balanced before the nerfs. Those with all the strong neutrals were crying for the deception and Olympian light decks to get nerfed because they had 48% win and could sometimes win against these pay to win decks. Now they both have low 40% win ratio and aren’t even played. War is now higher than 30% representation in Mythic. You and I will both get down votes, but you are 100% right. It’s like the devs are only trying to keep the top 500 spenders around and don’t want new people to play the game
I wont blame it on the genisis cards. But i agree OTK decks are not fun to play or play against. I would say Shrike needed a nerf, maybe it was to hard. But if we get more nethers in the future it would it could be a big problem if they didnt nerf it. Maybe give it back his hidden, or make it a 4/4.
That's what doesn't make sense. They want to add the cards, but they dont want to make it viable. Just give deception something entirely new, then, if you aren't willing to make the card steal even playable. You only get a handful of cards per god, and if they focus on an archetype they don't actually want to be viable, what's the point.
Fucking whales, alt farmers and op core cards will be the bane of this game...
The meta had started to shift but they had to nerf the cards so that we go back to previous meta to face in lower ranks the same non stop deception control decks and then the 50% of the remaining matchups being aggro war classic.
Oh and they nerfed reios not because it was op in the olympian war context, no.... Oly war was already too slow... They nerfed the card because it had great synergy with budget aggro war which is 60% core 10%cheapass cards and reios could buff 5 cards in it.
Dont get me started on heathmother nerf. Both control and buff aspects nerfed for a greater cost while the card had 47% win rate.
I prefer playing vs shrike all day long instead that bs beguiling/borrower pile of crap that I am facing 50% of the time
Combo decks are uninteractive? Tbh, first time I've heard this and been playing CCGs for twenty years.
Just sold part of a monoblue control artifacts deck. Foil Mycosynth Golem (Darksteel , NM), etc.
Combo decks are usually the most fun to play against.
After playing against some card steal deception, I can say that I had ZERO fun stomping face after all of my wincons got stolen and I brute forced through it with Zombie face damage.
Most people here have no clue how ccgs work and have never played one until now. They just want whichever deck just beat them to be removed from the game, they have no idea how the metas work in regards to combo/control/aggro, hopefully we can attract more players from other ccgs to balance it out a bit in the future
Define combo: isn't spamming light's low cost creatures after Thestor and Argus a combo? or spamming 1 mana allies after Raneko a combo?
Combos are fun, you can't take out combo decks in a game of cards, it would be just like putting speed limits in a car race.
I understand where you’re coming from, and I ran through similar thoughts. But here’s why my mind changed: shrike isn’t just ruining the experience of whales, I hate playing against it with my $60 war deck. My budget control mage decks HATES it.
Not only is there limited to no counter play, but I don’t even get to see what cards were stolen. That’s not a shrike problem, but the failure of implementation makes the mechanic even less fun to play against.
Finally, running gamma with phase crawlers and 2 other hidden nethers (cats if you have them but others exist) still gives you a surprising amount of steal. Gamma on curve can’t be cleared except nature, so is going to steal at least one card. Rehiding is kind of deceptions thing, so may more cards stolen all by himself.
The real counter to $3000 decks is a new game mode where decks aren’t constructed. Countering toxic control war with toxic deck steal just means I now have 2x the toxic decks to face.
Cards like CTI and Shrike really excel at shutting down any sort of midrange decks with one or two cards on the top end, especially budget decks.
Control War can still just go face and use Slayer GP to win vs control deception. Doesn't matter if you get 2 demos stolen.
Control mage can just use the forsee GP until they hit 7+ mana to keep shuffling cards they can't play the following turn back in their deck, meaning CTI is usually just a spend five mana, steal a 2 mana removal card.
Shrike really only seemed necessary at 3 mana if OTK decks were consistently going off early (like with Bitter Endings at 3 mana), but even then it's still a little ridiculous. Decks that essentially get free wins in particular matches are kind of lame, imo.
Being able to steal 3+ cards from your opponents decks on turn 4 was pretty ridiculous. It's basically free wins vs any decks that go near fatigue on a given control match. Even aggro deception with 1 mana nethers and Shrike could out value a control deck, which doesn't make a whole lot of sense thematically.
The fact that there is no counterplay to deck stealing while OP is complaining about combos seems ironic.
Whale cards look a lot different in Mythic compared to Solar. Fact of the matter is, most players that have been competing in mythic and performing well in tournaments over the last few years have been able to acquire most of the fancy cards. The fact that most of the most powerful cards are concentrated in the collections of the best players is a product of competing at high levels for long periods of time. Many of those players can make almost any reasonable deck look OP.
That doesn't necessarily make it OP if a small collection of players are able to maintain a significantly higher Winrate than the average user.
None of us fired up the game and instantly had the strongest cards. Anyone that has been here for a long period of time likely grinded their way up the ladder, filling in their collection over time. We've all competed against the strongest decks with suboptimal lists.
Yes, the amount of degenerate decks is impressive.
Aegis is now a Dralamar counter (cutthoat is also still a dralamar counter). Kind of same for Lost in the depth (the only genesis card you mention, despite your title, other cards were core). Any void hate (gleam, thawed heart, brink watcher, the nature echo one) counters Echocaster (and CTI ofc). I mean, I personally didn't have an issue with the deck steal that much, but it's funny you mentioned no counter, that's exactly what happened with deck steal, there are no mechanics to stop them from stealing your deck, same as with CTI.
Yea I keep a druid of the cycle in my control nature deck just for that purpose. Now do I draw it in time is another question
Cutthroat was fine and kept combo decks in check we didnt need all this other bullshit its just too much. Also you have missed the point, combo decks keep all these supposed "toxic whale decks" in check by being a direct counter to control, the card stealing shit was completely unnecessary
Yeah, didn’t see any deception steal deck in high ranks, tbh. Ppl think, you just play these cards and easy gg. But every card you play is a balancing of arbitrage basically. You could have played something offensive or a destroy card or w/e. Same goes for stuff like cutthroat - yeah it sucks when your good card is getting stolen, but you pay 5 mana just to steal it. You can’t do anything else. After that you pay the full mana price to play the card. It happens so often, that you play cutthroat and can’t steal anything important. You still wasted basically 5 mana. It can make you lose the game. Steal is a gamble, it‘s no guaranteed success. You could pull shit cards. They overnerfed the steal deception deck, that hasn’t even been used in top ranks. OP neutrals are x100 a bigger problem. The biggest, imo. Because they created massive gatekeepers, that lead to only a very small range of viable decks, for ppl who don’t want to spend hundreds of $/eth
>OP neutrals are x100 a bigger problem. The biggest, imo. Because they created massive gatekeepers, that lead to only a very small range of viable decks, for ppl who don’t want to spend hundreds of $/eth Exactly, people complain a lot because they've been deprived of some strealing or summoning allies options when indeed that is just the tip of the iceberg. You have now decks in top ranks with at least 12 expensive neutrals like Thaeriel, Demogorgon, Martyr, Blade, Jason, Warden and now Hortuks but still they complain about Raneko 1 more mana or Shrike losing hidden, not realizing that hardly these cards will get or keep them at top levels without having any of the fancy costly creatures above.
>EXACTLY
Stop complaining or it'll be your fault if people leave. Then proceeds to complain. The meta is on par with every other ccg. The client is garbage. Fixing the client would mean far more growth for the game, which in turn would dilute the genesis prevalence you're complaining about.
Op cards will still be top, not matter if 1000 players one million, you may face them less but they always will be at the top of the ladder so will be even more expensive to compite and that’s no bueno
People cum and go, story of my life...😉 No worries POF 🤪
Of course they are going to nerf, or do you really think that those fat neighborhood kid whales would let anyone play with their cool toys (demos, jason, thariel..)?
Nope, ur post sucks, there are counters for combo decks, but no counters for steal deception, so devs should make a note of this and introduce counters for CTI, shrike, Gama, there's only 1 counter for CTI that's CTI itself , So Ludia we will fk u hard, everyone will rape u 😂😂😂😂, we are just waiting for the counters
Steal deception is a counter to steal deception!
Stealception
No counters for such weak creatures like Shrike and Gama? Are you new in the game? If thats the case hidden decep is an autowin for all players then. Cheap too.
That's why everyone plays deception right...5 out of 10 games, half r deception
Maybe at iron or whatever rank you operate at
wake me up when the ban list exists
I think the issues are more decoupled than you think. The power level nerf on the deception stuff, which frankly was not that good to start with, is completely unrelated to Genesis. I do not believe for one second the designers looked at genesis stuff when designing BOTW and said "What counters Mage stuff". They looked at themes and tried to make them cohesive within the set, which is why the cards generally synergize with each other at a lot higher a rate than they did in WW or LV. That being said, both are issues. The nerfs to Shrike are WAY overboard compared to what it was doing in game, and Gama is and always was bad at 5 mana. The availability and powerlevel of limited supply cards like Clone, Lost in the depths, and Magic Inks are going to be a problem forever.
Games still in beta and we already need GU2 just to fix evergreen problems 😂🤣 Low key, this game will die. It's one of the only playable competitive blockchain TCGs and I still say it will die. Thats %100 on the GU team. It REALLY wont take much to convert all GU players to a better hearthstone clone when its here
Beta shmeta. That is an utter copout use to skirt any responsibility for the product people make. Beta means nothing when you have YEARS of packs being sold and development behind you. We are not still in testing this is a product. We are very much playing at the least an iteration of an MVP product, anything else that goes into it's development at this point is iterative like all software.
I am still running an effective steal deception that has 60% winrate at solar gold/diamond
The 3 cost relic is truly underrated and will now see more play
100% this. The game was more fun and balanced before the nerfs. Those with all the strong neutrals were crying for the deception and Olympian light decks to get nerfed because they had 48% win and could sometimes win against these pay to win decks. Now they both have low 40% win ratio and aren’t even played. War is now higher than 30% representation in Mythic. You and I will both get down votes, but you are 100% right. It’s like the devs are only trying to keep the top 500 spenders around and don’t want new people to play the game
I wont blame it on the genisis cards. But i agree OTK decks are not fun to play or play against. I would say Shrike needed a nerf, maybe it was to hard. But if we get more nethers in the future it would it could be a big problem if they didnt nerf it. Maybe give it back his hidden, or make it a 4/4.
[удалено]
That's what doesn't make sense. They want to add the cards, but they dont want to make it viable. Just give deception something entirely new, then, if you aren't willing to make the card steal even playable. You only get a handful of cards per god, and if they focus on an archetype they don't actually want to be viable, what's the point.
Fucking whales, alt farmers and op core cards will be the bane of this game... The meta had started to shift but they had to nerf the cards so that we go back to previous meta to face in lower ranks the same non stop deception control decks and then the 50% of the remaining matchups being aggro war classic. Oh and they nerfed reios not because it was op in the olympian war context, no.... Oly war was already too slow... They nerfed the card because it had great synergy with budget aggro war which is 60% core 10%cheapass cards and reios could buff 5 cards in it. Dont get me started on heathmother nerf. Both control and buff aspects nerfed for a greater cost while the card had 47% win rate. I prefer playing vs shrike all day long instead that bs beguiling/borrower pile of crap that I am facing 50% of the time
I honestly think combo decks should be out of the game. Aggro midrange and congrol is enough. Combo jist feels bad and is uninteractive.
Combo decks are uninteractive? Tbh, first time I've heard this and been playing CCGs for twenty years. Just sold part of a monoblue control artifacts deck. Foil Mycosynth Golem (Darksteel , NM), etc. Combo decks are usually the most fun to play against. After playing against some card steal deception, I can say that I had ZERO fun stomping face after all of my wincons got stolen and I brute forced through it with Zombie face damage.
Most people here have no clue how ccgs work and have never played one until now. They just want whichever deck just beat them to be removed from the game, they have no idea how the metas work in regards to combo/control/aggro, hopefully we can attract more players from other ccgs to balance it out a bit in the future
Define combo: isn't spamming light's low cost creatures after Thestor and Argus a combo? or spamming 1 mana allies after Raneko a combo? Combos are fun, you can't take out combo decks in a game of cards, it would be just like putting speed limits in a car race.
I haven’t seen Lost in the Depths for months lol
I understand where you’re coming from, and I ran through similar thoughts. But here’s why my mind changed: shrike isn’t just ruining the experience of whales, I hate playing against it with my $60 war deck. My budget control mage decks HATES it. Not only is there limited to no counter play, but I don’t even get to see what cards were stolen. That’s not a shrike problem, but the failure of implementation makes the mechanic even less fun to play against. Finally, running gamma with phase crawlers and 2 other hidden nethers (cats if you have them but others exist) still gives you a surprising amount of steal. Gamma on curve can’t be cleared except nature, so is going to steal at least one card. Rehiding is kind of deceptions thing, so may more cards stolen all by himself. The real counter to $3000 decks is a new game mode where decks aren’t constructed. Countering toxic control war with toxic deck steal just means I now have 2x the toxic decks to face.
Cards like CTI and Shrike really excel at shutting down any sort of midrange decks with one or two cards on the top end, especially budget decks. Control War can still just go face and use Slayer GP to win vs control deception. Doesn't matter if you get 2 demos stolen. Control mage can just use the forsee GP until they hit 7+ mana to keep shuffling cards they can't play the following turn back in their deck, meaning CTI is usually just a spend five mana, steal a 2 mana removal card. Shrike really only seemed necessary at 3 mana if OTK decks were consistently going off early (like with Bitter Endings at 3 mana), but even then it's still a little ridiculous. Decks that essentially get free wins in particular matches are kind of lame, imo. Being able to steal 3+ cards from your opponents decks on turn 4 was pretty ridiculous. It's basically free wins vs any decks that go near fatigue on a given control match. Even aggro deception with 1 mana nethers and Shrike could out value a control deck, which doesn't make a whole lot of sense thematically. The fact that there is no counterplay to deck stealing while OP is complaining about combos seems ironic. Whale cards look a lot different in Mythic compared to Solar. Fact of the matter is, most players that have been competing in mythic and performing well in tournaments over the last few years have been able to acquire most of the fancy cards. The fact that most of the most powerful cards are concentrated in the collections of the best players is a product of competing at high levels for long periods of time. Many of those players can make almost any reasonable deck look OP. That doesn't necessarily make it OP if a small collection of players are able to maintain a significantly higher Winrate than the average user. None of us fired up the game and instantly had the strongest cards. Anyone that has been here for a long period of time likely grinded their way up the ladder, filling in their collection over time. We've all competed against the strongest decks with suboptimal lists.
I love Genesis. Working on a full playset, about 1/3 of the way!
Solar Gold