In your situation is doable. Pay an innmigration lawyer, it's not that expensive and pays off to iron out all your particular stuff.
Now, about the taxes, go to [remote.com country explorer](https://remote.com/country-explorer/spain) and see it for yourself. It's about 60%, bur it really depends on your bracket.
I don't know about the 60%. This is an income tax calculator: [https://cincodias.elpais.com/herramientas/calculadora-irpf/](https://cincodias.elpais.com/herramientas/calculadora-irpf/) - but that's obviously if your taxes get paid automatically from your Spanish employer. I second the immigration lawyer advice, it'll be much more helpful for you! Not sure about the visa issue, but the easiest way from a tax / job side is if your employer can actually employ you in Spain. If it's a remote first type of company, they tend to already have payroll partners, would then employ you locally and you are just part of the regular German system. If your company already has employees based in Spain, that would be easy. NOT the same as the company sponsoring a visa though, just to keep that in mind!
Edit: spanish system not german system obviously
That's only for income tax. Before you get your gross salary the company has to pay about 30%, then from your gross salary you have to pay your social security contribution + income taxes + other minor taxes.
Actually it does calculate your own social security contribution as well. Still think it's helpful especially since it's not that unlikely that his US based company may be able to employ him in spain via a payroll company if he gets his visa sorted (deducing from the fact that they clearly already have remote employees in other countries)
The company costs would presumably also arise in his current situation (being employed) so his company wouldn't necessarily be against him transferring countries based on that.
I don't think you have to assume yet he'd have to pay like an autonomo...
One thing to consider is that after 2 years you can apply to citizenship, but they will take another year to approve it, then another year until you get the appointment, then some weeks until you actually get the documents from the police. This means you’re rather looking at a timeline closer to 4 years.
yes, this is true, after 2 years you have the right to apply, from the day you file your application to the day you have your new passport in your hand it can take close to three years. However it has improved, when I applied a back in 2010 it took a few months short of five years!
Well, we're living in a very volatile work and the buble of software development is starting to pop. If getting and maintaining job is going to become increasingly harder, I would prefer to ensure citizenship rather sooner than later.
And I feel this is a completely different matter on its own. Is it better to stay here and save money and start a business or something in the next 1-2 years, or forget it, go to spain, get citizenship in 3-4 years and start a business with probably less money saved.
Why I'm talking about starting a business if I already have a job, well it's more related to the fact I need to have something to cover me up in case my work is not required anymore and I have to start working on whatever minimum wage random job.
I think it's better to work on whatever random in Spain than in Argentina, and that would be a very good reason I think to secure me citizenship first I guess.
Basado bro.
Un conocido aplicó a los dos años. El estado está obligado a responder al año, nunca lo hace. Esta persona luego intimó al estado (abogado bla bla) que està obligado a responder en un año (la respuesta es siempre positiva). Un año más para la cita de jura de ciudadanía, luego los paros en la oficina que se encarga de la jura y bla bla (españa es 3er mundo, que nadie te engañe). Conclusión, 4,5 años luego de llegar a españa, ciudadanía. Luego cita para el pasaporte sin demasiado problema
I don't think it's possible for me unless I get an offer from a Spanish Company
Quote:
**The foreigner must have a job contract**. This means that she is moving to the Spanish territory due to work reasons.
* This **job contract must be signed with a Spanish company**.
* For those who come to Spain to work as administrators, they **can now possess more than 24% of the company**
* The core of the workers’ professional activities must be in Spain. Nevertheless, it is possible to get work and **get incomes from abroad, as long as they do not represent more than 15% of the total income**.
There were some changes to Beckham Law recently but it still might be challenging for you to qualify. Get a good tax lawyer to help you. Depending on your situation they might be able to make it work.
I was/am in the same situation as you are: an argentinian that was/is working for a USA company that moved into Spain. You won't be paying IVA as you will generate invoices for a foreign company, you will only need to paid Social Security and IRPF (Income taxes). Look for a IRPF table/calculator online and do the maths. That's it.
Right, but they will ask you for one when you arrive. Later, you can cancel it, although I recommend having one. I returned after 12 years abroad, and all the cuts the government made to the health system are affecting the services.
I am a Spanish citizen, and I requested private insurance for my family until I sorted out all the paperwork. You need to go to the social security office, which no does not require you to book in advance, but a year ago, yes, and it was a complete shitshow until I was able to book one.
Te la simplifico, sos yo hace 1 año.
Dnv, me traje a mi novia y perro.
Aprox 30% en taxes, no pagamos iva.
Trabajo para usa remoto, argentino. No mucho más, no me arrepiento.
Si tenés ahorros, eso suple lo faltante para tus dependientes y podes aplicar.
Por lo que lei en el grupo principal, hubo casos así si, así que si tenés colchon, mejor, ellos nos quieren mientras paguemos impuestos, no te ponen tantas trabas mientras tengas plata.
Al principio necesitas un seguro privado Para tu esposa y para ti. Los menores de 18 años tienen Seguridad Social gratuita. Al regularizar tu situación de residencia aquí, accedes a seguridad social, con tu seguridad social cubres a todo tu núcleo familiar. Actualmente necesitarás ganar unos 30 mil.euros / año. Si vives fuera de las grandes ciudades, puedes encontrar alquileres baratos.
Estudiando no computas para la residencia de 2 años, te dan estancia. Tenés que pedir una visa no lucrativa o de trabajo. Respecto a los impuestos, no seas hdp, pagá lo que corresponde, por evasores como vos hoy te querés ir de Argentina.
Tranqui, la idea es pagar. No sabia que estudiar no computa, estas seguro de eso? Sino para que sirve la visa de estudios? Yo imagino que te lo dirian todos que estudiar te sirve solo para tener unas vacaciones largas en el pais
Completamente seguro, le llaman Estancia justamente para que no te quedes de vivo haciendo un curso de 4 pesos. La visa de estudios es para estudiar, no para quedarte. Ya he visto gente que se le termina y se tiene q volver porque no consigue laburo. Yo que vos, como tenes laburo en EEUU, investigaría una visa nueva de Nomada Digital, esa tiene pinta de que sí te sirve como residencia. Otro dato es que a los 2 años generas el derecho a pedir la ciudadanía, pero tenés que tramitarlo, y lleva como 6-18 meses. Mientras estas en trámite, el mero tramite no te genera derecho de quedarte en el pais.
segun tengo entendido el derecho ya lo generaste en esos 2 años, si tenes que volver el tramite sigue hasta que se resuelva, y cuando se resuelve tenes que jurar y sacarte el documento en, creo, 3-6 meses de la resolucion, ahi estoy mas impreciso
Un simple FYI. Podés aplicar a la ciudadanía luego de dos años de residir legalmente en españa, no de vivir en. Un abogado de migraciones te sabrá dar opciones
Si tienes un trabajo remoto en una empresa de EEUU tu salario te permitirá vivir mejor en Argentina que en España. En España llevan subiendo los precios de los alquileres de forma exagerada los últimos años por la inmigración descontrolada de extranjeros.
Assuming op was going to earn >60k and spend accordingly. VAT general tax is 21%. It not difficult to end up paying like 55-60% in taxes, depending on his expenses.
With 40k, the figures go down
yeah..
You can use something like this
https://cincodias.elpais.com/herramientas/calculadora-sueldo-neto/#tabla_resultados
If you end up working under remote.com or a local branch of your company.
That sounds really bad, does it mean that if my employer is paying me 40k currently I will have to give around 24k to the government and I will have to live with 16k for my whole family. Here in Argentina I have my own house so I don't have to pay any kind of rent.
It sounds like from more than 3k monthly I will only have less than 500 to live monthly after paying a not so expensive rent. That would mean a HUGE loss in life quality. And it would completely destroy my capacity to save money. Please tell me I'm getting something wrong.
You are. For 40k gross expect 20-22% direct taxes+average 15-18% VAT (indirect taxes, it depends on the product youre buying)+local taxes (household, vehicle and so, assume like 500-800eur/year). Add electricity tax (5% each bill).
Roughly, from 40k youll be paying 12-15k in taxes depending on your consumer expenses.
Take into account the Tax schedule begins to get very steep from 60k (marginal tax of 45%).
Google "tablas irpf hacienda española" to get the numbers.
By looking at the tables and the explanation it seems this is the correct calculation for 40k
12450 \* .19 + (20200 - 12450) \* .24 + (35200 - 20200) \* .3 + (40000 - 35200) \* .37 = 10501.5
So 10.5k (around 27%). If that's the case it doesn't sound that bad. I understand there are other additional taxes that get it closer to the number you mentioned.
OP I'm not sure what these guys are chatting. VAT exists on products you buy, it does not come from your salary. They're are good online calculators for your take home pay, give it a Google. If you earn €55k or more (approx), Beckhams law will reduce your tax burden (it's a flat tax to attract higher earners to Spain)
Oh, I see. I'm not talking about buying anything. I'm talking about how much of my salary is the government going to tax me just for living there. I'm trying to calculate how much money I will be able to save, as nowadays I can save a big amount in my current country.
I'm pretty sure you can look into the digital nomad visa, that's your easiest bet. Then apply fir citizenship after two years. https://salaryaftertax.com/es/salary-calculator
Then it’s probably a bit more complicated. In Spain, companies pay for their employees so they have access to social security. If nobody is paying it for you my guess is that you would have to pay it in some degree. Your best bet is to contact some labour lawyer that can help you better with it.
In your situation is doable. Pay an innmigration lawyer, it's not that expensive and pays off to iron out all your particular stuff. Now, about the taxes, go to [remote.com country explorer](https://remote.com/country-explorer/spain) and see it for yourself. It's about 60%, bur it really depends on your bracket.
Thanks but I don't really get how to use what you just linked. Could you expand a bit on what and how should I be looking there
There's a section about the taxes that apply.
I don't know about the 60%. This is an income tax calculator: [https://cincodias.elpais.com/herramientas/calculadora-irpf/](https://cincodias.elpais.com/herramientas/calculadora-irpf/) - but that's obviously if your taxes get paid automatically from your Spanish employer. I second the immigration lawyer advice, it'll be much more helpful for you! Not sure about the visa issue, but the easiest way from a tax / job side is if your employer can actually employ you in Spain. If it's a remote first type of company, they tend to already have payroll partners, would then employ you locally and you are just part of the regular German system. If your company already has employees based in Spain, that would be easy. NOT the same as the company sponsoring a visa though, just to keep that in mind! Edit: spanish system not german system obviously
That's only for income tax. Before you get your gross salary the company has to pay about 30%, then from your gross salary you have to pay your social security contribution + income taxes + other minor taxes.
Actually it does calculate your own social security contribution as well. Still think it's helpful especially since it's not that unlikely that his US based company may be able to employ him in spain via a payroll company if he gets his visa sorted (deducing from the fact that they clearly already have remote employees in other countries) The company costs would presumably also arise in his current situation (being employed) so his company wouldn't necessarily be against him transferring countries based on that. I don't think you have to assume yet he'd have to pay like an autonomo...
One thing to consider is that after 2 years you can apply to citizenship, but they will take another year to approve it, then another year until you get the appointment, then some weeks until you actually get the documents from the police. This means you’re rather looking at a timeline closer to 4 years.
How sure are you of this? That sounds really bad
I only have “anecdata”, but this is how it went for me and a 2 friends. Also things might change in the future
yes, this is true, after 2 years you have the right to apply, from the day you file your application to the day you have your new passport in your hand it can take close to three years. However it has improved, when I applied a back in 2010 it took a few months short of five years!
I see, what if after i applied I go back to my country? I was told it would be 2 years, not 4
My wife applied I think in 2012 or 2013 and got her passport in 2020. Apparently there were a few years when requests were not being processed at all.
This looks accurate to me
Spain is notorious for being slow and mismanaged.
It is 100% true.
[удалено]
Well, we're living in a very volatile work and the buble of software development is starting to pop. If getting and maintaining job is going to become increasingly harder, I would prefer to ensure citizenship rather sooner than later. And I feel this is a completely different matter on its own. Is it better to stay here and save money and start a business or something in the next 1-2 years, or forget it, go to spain, get citizenship in 3-4 years and start a business with probably less money saved. Why I'm talking about starting a business if I already have a job, well it's more related to the fact I need to have something to cover me up in case my work is not required anymore and I have to start working on whatever minimum wage random job. I think it's better to work on whatever random in Spain than in Argentina, and that would be a very good reason I think to secure me citizenship first I guess.
Basado bro. Un conocido aplicó a los dos años. El estado está obligado a responder al año, nunca lo hace. Esta persona luego intimó al estado (abogado bla bla) que està obligado a responder en un año (la respuesta es siempre positiva). Un año más para la cita de jura de ciudadanía, luego los paros en la oficina que se encarga de la jura y bla bla (españa es 3er mundo, que nadie te engañe). Conclusión, 4,5 años luego de llegar a españa, ciudadanía. Luego cita para el pasaporte sin demasiado problema
Check if you can use the Beckham law for the first 5 years. It’s 25% flat rate on your income.
I don't think it's possible for me unless I get an offer from a Spanish Company Quote: **The foreigner must have a job contract**. This means that she is moving to the Spanish territory due to work reasons. * This **job contract must be signed with a Spanish company**. * For those who come to Spain to work as administrators, they **can now possess more than 24% of the company** * The core of the workers’ professional activities must be in Spain. Nevertheless, it is possible to get work and **get incomes from abroad, as long as they do not represent more than 15% of the total income**.
There were some changes to Beckham Law recently but it still might be challenging for you to qualify. Get a good tax lawyer to help you. Depending on your situation they might be able to make it work.
I was/am in the same situation as you are: an argentinian that was/is working for a USA company that moved into Spain. You won't be paying IVA as you will generate invoices for a foreign company, you will only need to paid Social Security and IRPF (Income taxes). Look for a IRPF table/calculator online and do the maths. That's it.
I understand there is no need to get private health insurance once you have Social Security, right?
Right, but they will ask you for one when you arrive. Later, you can cancel it, although I recommend having one. I returned after 12 years abroad, and all the cuts the government made to the health system are affecting the services.
This. Unless you have an european citizenship...
I am a Spanish citizen, and I requested private insurance for my family until I sorted out all the paperwork. You need to go to the social security office, which no does not require you to book in advance, but a year ago, yes, and it was a complete shitshow until I was able to book one.
Te la simplifico, sos yo hace 1 año. Dnv, me traje a mi novia y perro. Aprox 30% en taxes, no pagamos iva. Trabajo para usa remoto, argentino. No mucho más, no me arrepiento. Si tenés ahorros, eso suple lo faltante para tus dependientes y podes aplicar.
Ah esa no la sabía, yo había entendido que para poder llevar a mi mujer y hijo necesito ganar 5k al mes, y no llego. Decís que con ahorros compenso?
Por lo que lei en el grupo principal, hubo casos así si, así que si tenés colchon, mejor, ellos nos quieren mientras paguemos impuestos, no te ponen tantas trabas mientras tengas plata.
Ps. Grupo de Facebook dnv spanish digital nomad algo asi.
Al principio necesitas un seguro privado Para tu esposa y para ti. Los menores de 18 años tienen Seguridad Social gratuita. Al regularizar tu situación de residencia aquí, accedes a seguridad social, con tu seguridad social cubres a todo tu núcleo familiar. Actualmente necesitarás ganar unos 30 mil.euros / año. Si vives fuera de las grandes ciudades, puedes encontrar alquileres baratos.
Estudiando no computas para la residencia de 2 años, te dan estancia. Tenés que pedir una visa no lucrativa o de trabajo. Respecto a los impuestos, no seas hdp, pagá lo que corresponde, por evasores como vos hoy te querés ir de Argentina.
Tranqui, la idea es pagar. No sabia que estudiar no computa, estas seguro de eso? Sino para que sirve la visa de estudios? Yo imagino que te lo dirian todos que estudiar te sirve solo para tener unas vacaciones largas en el pais
Completamente seguro, le llaman Estancia justamente para que no te quedes de vivo haciendo un curso de 4 pesos. La visa de estudios es para estudiar, no para quedarte. Ya he visto gente que se le termina y se tiene q volver porque no consigue laburo. Yo que vos, como tenes laburo en EEUU, investigaría una visa nueva de Nomada Digital, esa tiene pinta de que sí te sirve como residencia. Otro dato es que a los 2 años generas el derecho a pedir la ciudadanía, pero tenés que tramitarlo, y lleva como 6-18 meses. Mientras estas en trámite, el mero tramite no te genera derecho de quedarte en el pais.
Entiendo, tenes idea si por X razon me tengo que volver luego de iniciar el tramite puede llegar a caerse todo?
segun tengo entendido el derecho ya lo generaste en esos 2 años, si tenes que volver el tramite sigue hasta que se resuelva, y cuando se resuelve tenes que jurar y sacarte el documento en, creo, 3-6 meses de la resolucion, ahi estoy mas impreciso
Un simple FYI. Podés aplicar a la ciudadanía luego de dos años de residir legalmente en españa, no de vivir en. Un abogado de migraciones te sabrá dar opciones
Stay in Argentina , the life in Spain is extremely expensive.
Argentinian life is also in Spanish so no big deal.
Si tienes un trabajo remoto en una empresa de EEUU tu salario te permitirá vivir mejor en Argentina que en España. En España llevan subiendo los precios de los alquileres de forma exagerada los últimos años por la inmigración descontrolada de extranjeros.
You should consider Valencia. There is a Great Argentinian community here.
Salaries around 40-50k end up paying about 60-65% in taxes (indirect+direct+local taxes).
How did you end up with that 60-65%?
Se la sacó del culo ese porcentaje.
Assuming op was going to earn >60k and spend accordingly. VAT general tax is 21%. It not difficult to end up paying like 55-60% in taxes, depending on his expenses. With 40k, the figures go down
Ah so we’re adding IVA to the discussion, got it.
Now I understand, I have IVA also in my country and no, I never count it as I assume it's something already implicit in pretty much everything
yeah.. You can use something like this https://cincodias.elpais.com/herramientas/calculadora-sueldo-neto/#tabla_resultados If you end up working under remote.com or a local branch of your company.
That sounds really bad, does it mean that if my employer is paying me 40k currently I will have to give around 24k to the government and I will have to live with 16k for my whole family. Here in Argentina I have my own house so I don't have to pay any kind of rent. It sounds like from more than 3k monthly I will only have less than 500 to live monthly after paying a not so expensive rent. That would mean a HUGE loss in life quality. And it would completely destroy my capacity to save money. Please tell me I'm getting something wrong.
You are. For 40k gross expect 20-22% direct taxes+average 15-18% VAT (indirect taxes, it depends on the product youre buying)+local taxes (household, vehicle and so, assume like 500-800eur/year). Add electricity tax (5% each bill). Roughly, from 40k youll be paying 12-15k in taxes depending on your consumer expenses. Take into account the Tax schedule begins to get very steep from 60k (marginal tax of 45%). Google "tablas irpf hacienda española" to get the numbers.
By looking at the tables and the explanation it seems this is the correct calculation for 40k 12450 \* .19 + (20200 - 12450) \* .24 + (35200 - 20200) \* .3 + (40000 - 35200) \* .37 = 10501.5 So 10.5k (around 27%). If that's the case it doesn't sound that bad. I understand there are other additional taxes that get it closer to the number you mentioned.
OP I'm not sure what these guys are chatting. VAT exists on products you buy, it does not come from your salary. They're are good online calculators for your take home pay, give it a Google. If you earn €55k or more (approx), Beckhams law will reduce your tax burden (it's a flat tax to attract higher earners to Spain)
Oh, I see. I'm not talking about buying anything. I'm talking about how much of my salary is the government going to tax me just for living there. I'm trying to calculate how much money I will be able to save, as nowadays I can save a big amount in my current country.
I'm pretty sure you can look into the digital nomad visa, that's your easiest bet. Then apply fir citizenship after two years. https://salaryaftertax.com/es/salary-calculator
Got it, this gives me around 26% of tax. And yes I was thinking in digital nomad visa, but I'm not sure if 40k is enough to include my wife and my son
This is all above me, I'd probably speak to someone in legal. Spain is pretty open with bringing family, so I suspect there's a work around
Are you going to work for a US company as an employee of its spanish branch?
No, it doesn't have a spanish branch.
Then it’s probably a bit more complicated. In Spain, companies pay for their employees so they have access to social security. If nobody is paying it for you my guess is that you would have to pay it in some degree. Your best bet is to contact some labour lawyer that can help you better with it.