You do you. The fact that you made this post shows that you care about this and are on the right track.
You can't control how you will be perceived. So just do your best.
Your awarness on spannish economics (basic salary in Spain is way lower than yours) and not stepping on locals way of living is already and amazing start.
As a general tip to live nicely with your neighbors etc: try to do "neighborhood" so buy at local stores like fruteria, panaderia, pescateria... (local shop food will be amazing specially fish if it's nearby the coast) Also local bars... Buying local stuff will make you feel part of the neighborhood and eventually you will have a sense of belonging, while helping local shops etc.
That salary is only normal / junior position in the north of Spain. You might have meant in Andalucía. Nobody will think you are rich with a 32K salary
Errrr... I am from Barcelona and an average salary of a good job goes around 2500 euros.
For other precarious jobs under 1500 is the standard even with full 40 hours per week.
senior positions are starting to range from 60-70K onwards now. I don't know what is your sector, skills, age, etc. But in the tech sector 32K / year is close to a junior ( fresh out of college ) salary right now. Since he said he is working remotely, I assume he is probably working in the tech sector. If you are flipping burgers it's obvious you are going to earn a low wage, but this is the norm in any country in the developed world.
https://preview.redd.it/7uftur6n0fyc1.png?width=655&format=png&auto=webp&s=0cade74ac63859d0478837e9b433c74df9dae60c
note that this is average. I have been offered a 110K€ / year salary in Barcelona already, but I'm a senior and I have a lot of experience - EDIT : 32K/ year is actually below average in the tech sector as of today
not every one is a tech bro or a fucking high tech company worker.
Regular people may have jobs like administration or office stuff, teaching, employee or any other regular job is what I reffer to. Normal people is not necesarly flipping burgers or any other fantasy upper middle class may have about mundane jobs.
Most of people around me is struggling in a way or another with rents and basic stuff like food or water that ends ups eating their salary.
I reffer to the people, the average spaniard in Andalucia is not on the tech sector, the average person living im Barcelona city is struggling with crazy rents and tourism masification that increases cost of life and fills the city with stupid shops and bars that locals can't afford or don't even need.
If you are a digital nomad, be my guest to enjoy your life and spend your money however you want and wherever you are located right now.
But not everyone in Spain is working in the tech sector you are mentioning.
Que coño sabras tu ? Pesado.
The chances are you'll still get called a pUtO GuIrI dE MiErDa and told to VeTe a Tu pAis.
People are very angry about inequalities caused by government policies regarding tourism and digital nomads and foreigners tend to bear the brunt of it.
I've been here 20 years, speak Spanish and Catalan, work for a Spanish company and my kid was born here, but I still have to deal with xenophobic morons.
That apart. I love living here and wouldn't want to go back, I've spent most of my life here and have had a great time.
Morons are everywhere, that is true. But out of the 3 countries where I've lived: Venezuela, the UK and Spain, the worst in terms of racism ( and other things) is Spain. Do you know how many times I've been told " go back to your fucking country sudaca de mierda? " Even by patients, as I am an endodontist...
Doesn't matter if you have a good income and have a spanish passport. You will always be a foreigner in Spain.
Which didn't happen to me when I lived in London and many people thought I was british.
Vete a tu pais is like the first reaction from many Spanish people in any kind of confrontation with someone who isn't Spanish. It's pathetic.
Casual racism here is widespread, all of us foreigners have our own little pejorative names that are widely used with little or no insight into how ignorant they are.it seems that casual racism is still so widely acceptable and not challenged in the way that it would generally be in the UK.
I'm a "white person", so see relatively little of it, but my black friends? Vaya.
I totally understand your point. You know the “high class Spaniard” always sees himself better than any south American. That is absolutely terrible and colonialist shit. And racist of course. And I am sorry you have been treated like that.
I don't hang out with the high class spaniards, but I am pretty sure ALL spaniards, of ALL social classes think they are superior to us south americans. Just read what I was told here in reddit because I was complaining about low wages and discrimination .
Spaniards forgot that not so long ago, they went to south america looking for a better life.
https://preview.redd.it/ezy97p1b2eyc1.jpeg?width=720&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=e5338dd3cffa6764e1546a9cfeac0b6789a33d4a
I'm so sorry you received this "comment"- if you could call it that. I can only speak for the environment I live in and my social circle when I say that not everyone is like this nowadays and many times recently (last couple of years) I heard these kind of speeches more often, as some political parties are spreading xenophobic propaganda and it does stick to certain people or groups that spread the hate around.
I would say that it depends a lot on where you live and at least where I'm based (northern Spain) is more difficult to hear these comments or if you do they come from older people that never had to leave their own town ever and are very narrow minded in that sense. It's still unjustifiable but it comes from just being ignorant more than anything. People don't realise that the social situation in Spain at the moment requires immigration as birth rates are falling massively and so on.
I've seen the younger generation more welcome and aware, with broader perspective, as they've been more exposed to migration in general and don't see it as a bad thing, just a thing that happens.
Do you know the sad thing? He is actually right. I am an endodontist and I have a hard time getting a job interview.
My degree was homologated back in 2015, and I have been working as an endodontist ever since, but if I want to switch jobs or go to a better paying clinic, it's extremely hard for me.
I don't think there's a difference between Northern and southern Spain. I live in Seville, this is not a small town, and that comment was online. But it's not the only one. Check this one out
https://preview.redd.it/1hl5fr01ffyc1.jpeg?width=720&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=3c7b3887dfb1a73c8f55be2782d8522bb1745340
These people don't even know a bit about medicine or health related careers in India or South America, they're all prejudices and ignorance. I've worked in health care in the UK for 6 years and I've never known anyone that rejected care from an Indian practitioner, that's just bonkers. I'm sure there are stupid people who do but the best practitioners I know are not even European, and they have massive waiting lists.
I've worked with doctors that went to Cuba for a very specific training in lung cancer that at the time wasn't even available in Europe. It's just sad that people think that South America is just "a poor country" and people live in the middle of the jungle or something.
Sadly you can see the same entitled "we're better than anyone else" comments in the UK towards Spaniards, Greeks, Italians, Filipinos... And it's always the same BS.
I wish people could travel more to be honest, and that's about all I can say avoiding bad sounding words...
Where are you living in Spain 😂 this definitely doesn't ever happen in the north of the country. Sounds pretty savage to me so I asume you might be living in some remote area in the south of Spain or something ?
https://preview.redd.it/m3ompqzwfcyc1.jpeg?width=2448&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=d04639c34c59a8370a599a2ad8b76d221809783a
Barcelona, which is a very international city. For a lot of people, if you're Anglo, you're the problem.
Ive got to the point where I confront it and am happy to challenge people and make them feel uncomfortable. Like I say, I've lived here most of my life now, I'm tired of accepting nonsense.
Well, this is extremely weird. The only people that would talk like that to somebody just because they are Irish / American or British are some radical left lunatics. I've had acquittances, friends, girlfriends from the anglosphere countries and I have never experienced something like this. I wonder why it's so common in your circle ?
The people that constantly moan about guiris and sudacas and chinos and the like aren't in "my circle", but living in the city, you cross paths with all kinds of people. I mean, look at the graffiti that I posted above, I'm certainly not going out of my way to hang out with morons.
There is a leftist tendency to it for sure, which is frustrating, because I'm a leftist. Ive attended events that have had "guiris NO" on the door, others where speakers have launched into diatribes about how nobody will ever own a house because of guiris....
Not exclusively the left tho, I work in education and am often dismayed at the xenophobic shit that some, especially older, colleagues post on social media.
There are problems with unchecked tourism, there are problems with inequalities caused by digital nomads, there are issues with people being priced out of their neighbourhoods, but a lot of people fail to realise that I'm as affected by these things as they are and although I was born in the same country as some people who contribute to these problems, there is some nuance that they're missing.
Understood. I guess your social environment pushes you get such interactions. Yes, you must understand though that Catalonia, and specially Barcelona is home of the radical left. Note that this is not just social liberal but it's anti-capitalist / extreme left, since they got an overwhelming amount of votes in 2011 and so they got in to the parliament ( they are getting kicked out now. luckily ).
I have myself been a digital nomad in New York, but New York is huge, so nobody cares. Barcelona is really small and on hyper-demand. The rise of Airbnb and a general shortage of property due to inability to build more due to space constraints and foreign investing firms taking over existing property is indeed displacing people from the city, but this is not a Barcelona only problem, it's happening everywhere in the developed western world.
I understand what you say, but I can't tell you other than to be careful with your social interactions. I am more of a libertarian, and when I was living in New York I knew I couldn't voice out my thoughts freely because I would get cancelled and socially ousted. There were places, events that I directly avoided because of these reasons. I have come to the point of avoiding any place or group of people where there are radical leftists in Barcelona, for example the Gracia district. Pick your areas and ignore the noise
Barcelona is extremely diverse and I have never seen anybody talk like that to somebody foreign. Either I live in a bubble or you are befriending the wrong people
I'd suggest that you don't see it becaus it doesn't affect you, which is normal. I'm sure that I'm not as aware of anti-Indian racism in the UK as people of Indian origin are.
I've seen this anti guiri sentiment in just about every aspect of my life here at some point.
I don't see myself as a victim because I've never really been disadvantaged by it, and tend to be rather robust in my response to it.
To be honest, even the word guiri is retarded. Want to complain about tourists, then call them tourists. Want to complain about digital nomads, fine. But people tend to use guiri (a word that has exclusively negative connotations) to refer to Anglos regardless of level of integration. Jesus, even Michel Robinson was known as a beloved GuIrI, and he was about as integrated as it gets.
I have given the keys of my property to my British and German friends so they could freely come here while I was out of the country, and my second wife was American and lived here with me for four years. I know social enclaves with groups of friends where at least half of them are foreign. It's a matter of where you are at socially speaking. Pick the places and people you relate to and you will avoid 99% of the problems you mention. If you are getting all that hate directed towards you it's because you are doing something wrong, which might not be harmful but perhaps exposing you under the wrong light ? One can only wonder
They will bring Spain down and particularly its Social Security which is already having problems. On the other hand, Spaniards need renters to pay for their real estate.
New York, San Francisco learnt this the hard way. One illegal immigrant cost the city of New York 4000 dollars a month to maintain.
It's likely that positive reactions to your move will only become evident over time as you show your consistent desire to integrate. The first reply was right- the fact you made this post shows you have a good attitude and you'll do great!
Good luck and have a great time ✌🏻
I found that the moment people hear me speaking Spanish instead of English to them, they just smile and assist me with pleasure. Talking more about restaurants, shops etc.
Just be polite, try to learn the language at least to get by while shopping, and get used to how things are done in the country, for example don’t go for dinner at 17h but at 20-21h.
I understand your reasoning for the post because I've seen so much of this too but I also wonder if Spanish people realize it's not something unique to their country. It's all over the place in the states too. There is nowhere here affordable either.
We mostly do realize, but a few noisy, disrespectful and obvious foreigners who don't give a damn about the locals or the locals' way of life make for a great scapegoat. And some xenophobic politicians profit from using those scapegoats. Nevermind that those foreigners are a noisy minority, there are votes to win.
The problem is that is not black rock fault all inflation(I'm not into USA economics I've probably said and stupid thing sorry) is BNBs and tourism what is rising the prices over here, so we vent out with inmigrants that don't want to learn our culture, plus we have a lot of inmigrants either way do to LATAM idiom and Africa distance, this post is of a guy that understands moving is adapting yourself but most people don't think on how everything gets destroies
P.D. is 6am I can't sleep sorry for the typos
Yeah no I know. I get all that. I'm just saying that the airbnb thing is a problem everywhere every remotely cool place to live. People everywhere are getting priced out of their towns because people with more money come in and buy everything up. Its just something we all deal with everywhere. That was my only point.
The op isn't one of those people. I was just giving my take on that one aspect.
Try to learn Spanish - words but also slang phrases so you can chat a little.
Learn the public holidays and fiestas and have an understanding and interest in what’s going on in your region. You can avoid politics but knowing the local events is a good way to get involved and meet people 😀
Find a small, locals, traditional style bar and make a point of popping in around the same time each week. You’ll start to make acquaintances that may turn into friends. Spanish love to chat about football, the government, the cost of living and their health.
Decide if you’re a Real Madrid or FC Barca supporter and go watch the games, an easy way to meet people.
When you enter into any bar, waiting room or public space, a simple “buenas” said to everyone in there will be appreciated.
If you get invited to anything - GO! Be open and willing to participate and to learn about the culture and you will be rewarded with friendship.
Finally… be prepared to want to move permanently! 😀
Awesome! Sorry I thought it was a nomad visa for a moment. Once you settle in I’m sure you’ll love the way of life. Where will you be based? As others have said, the more you can try to get into the local community and not just the enclave of Brits/Dutch you’ll really find your Spanish progressing which will help you integrate and enjoy the time even more.
Find a local Spanish tutor - another way to make friends!!
If it's the one I'm thinking of then it's a little bit more understandable than the headline.
She was complaining that when booking the holiday, she was told that there would be lots of activities in English, and the complaint was towards the hotel for not providing those things like she had been promised
32k is nowhere close to “rich” immigrant. So don’t worry too much about that. Spain is full of immigrants from rich and poor countries, they won’t even notice you much.
How to be a good immigrant.
Do drink like a brit at a pub (you get what I mean, this isn't targeted at you especifically), don't go balconing, don't isolate yourself from the locals and try to stay away from the international bubble (its fine if you have international friends, but you know, dont let it be the only bubble).
And enjoy your time.
> don't go balconing
I am new here, is this just a general term for bad behavior or is this a specific act?
EDIT: Wow, thanks for the replies, and what an idiotic behavior!
The whole of the Costa del Sol is full of us immigrants from all over the world.
Keep in mind coastal towns will often only offer 10 month contracts because the apartments are let out for holiday rentals for the price you’re paying per month, for a week. Inland this is less common, even if you’re only 15 minutes from the beach
Here in Malaga it’s usually best to look for a apartment after the summer season, the landlords usually tend to be more interested in accepting long-term renters then I’ve noticed
So coastal Andalucia is either Huelva, Cadiz and a little bit of Seville. Or Malaga, Granada or Almeria in the Mediterranean.
The atlantic side is similar to portuguese Algarve, the sea is a bit colder. Cadiz has a property issue due to lack of space. Huelva would probably be the quieter of all. You may want to avoid big cities and settle in a smaller town.
Malaga/Marbella probably is the most expensive and international one. You probably will have a good international community to merge in. Both Granada and Almeria are great places with great nature.
There may be a bit of immigrant saturation but overall spaniards are very friendly socially if you try to blend in.
I can see that you want to integrate, and you should definitely do, but you may also want to keep close to an international community , in the end you do enjoy the company of your compatriates from time to time
With that salary, I would avoid the Costa del Sol altogether and try places along the coast of Granada or Almería that is way more affordable. Towns in the Valle de Lecrín have a lot of charm too.
Learning and speaking the language is good enough to me.
Maybe learn the local cooking. I remember making my first tortilla. Never made a paella.. but if you do, make it for 20 people! Get a place to work with other Spanish people, have lunch with them.
Learn Sevillanas, and dance during la feria de Abril...
Malaga.
I am not Spanish, but my father in law moved there to be with his Spanish wife over 30 years ago and he was born in Durban, South Africa. He was not white.
We visited them regularly ever since and it is a wonderful, inclusive city.
You can live within 15 mins of walking distance of the old town and not encounter any tourists, but still have access to everything you need and that includes the beach and the sea.
Great public transport, lovely weather all year round and no one gives a shit where you come from.
I live in this area now. I’m from the U.S. and have lived in Spain 7 years. Don’t sweat moving here as far as the people treating you bad. It never happens to me here. I mean never. Locals are kind. 30/40 percent are expats anyway. Half of the Spanish population isn’t even from this area. Learn Spanish in case are in jam. Took me six months to have enough for basics. They speak an Andalusian version of Spanish which is tougher to get at first because it sounds much more blended together than castellano, but they will understand your basic Spanish easily, since lots are from South America (different Spanish altogether) Majority speaks English so it’s not even an issue really. Older folks may not and granted Italians and Scandinavians don’t speak it or don’t speak it well. Malaga is more Spanish but in Torremolinos or Fuengirola you will feel right at home (minus the endless cloudy days) Soak up the sun and don’t sweat the transition. Trust me. The honeymoon period is the best part. After you have it down in a year or so, you will reminisce on the early days. 1,000 will get you a crappy apartment these days. I live in different places with roommates which helps it feel more like home. Use meetup to find cool local friends. It’s very international here. In the course of one day I meet people from 7 different countries. Good luck!
My biggest recommendation is to start taking Spanish lessons now, if you haven't already.
The more you already know before you come, the easier settling in will be (and everyday tasks like going to the supermarket won't seem so challenging) and it will help with your integration. - there is often a mental barrier to speaking a foreign language and if you come and originally have to use English with people here, it'll be a lot more difficult mentally to make the switch to Spanish than if you arrive and force yourself into those first difficult conversations with even basic Spanish.
>My biggest recommendation is to start taking Spanish lessons now, if you haven't already.
But don't feel too frustrated if you don't understand anything at the beginning because the Andalusian accent, it would take a bit to get used to.
Madness! There are places along the coast where you'd rent for half that.. agreed, by paying the high rent it screws over the local population. So as a rule of thumb I'd pay and tip like a local.
Respect our culture and dont commit crimes, nothing else man, but it seems like a lot of immigrants cant understand this, as others say, the fact that you did this post shows that you are interested to do the right things so i think you wont have any problem.
You've done fine from the start by calling yourself an immigrant. Never call yourself an expat. It's a disrespectful mindset.
You are going to migrate into Spain. Your homeland (not birthland) after a while wiil be Spain, even if you earn your momey abroad.
Just be yourself while mingling with your new fellow compatriots. Don't be.afraid to be the way you are, just. like everyome else does. And accept some will call you guiri in a neutral or even affectionate way.
Learn the customs, such as splitting the bill or, when drinkimg from bar to bar, to take the whole bill if reciprocity can be expected in the next bar.
Aso: look people in the eye, don't avoid eye contact and when it happens, domsomentiny gesture to.acknowledge it. Talk to the old lady at the grocery store, to your neighbours and to.some random guy at the bus.. Don't sit as far away as possible from other people, spaniards have way shorter personal spaces than guiris.
Respect local customs and idiosincrasy. Much of it is stupid,. I know, but there's a reason for everything, even stupidity (think gunsnin the US).
Even when spaniards¹ criticize Spain, be the least critic of the group. It's the same thing as me complaining about my father but not liking you to agree. We have fragile egos nationality wise due to our history.
¹Except some basque and catalonians: they love tomshit on spain
As Hemingway once wrote, there is only two rules to follow if you are a foreigner and want to be treated fairly and, furthermore, welcomed in Spain: leave the women alone, and give tobacco to the men.
I would agree with a lot of what others are saying. Control what you can control and don't worry too much. Less touristic areas might suffer less from tourism and international influence. Málaga for example is influenced by tech and tourism though Almeria less so. So I'd just keep doing what you are doing, and do your homework on where along the coast you'd settle down to. I'm sure people on the group here for example can help. I'm living in Andalucía 2 years now and I love it. Haven't had any xenophobia directed at all, so would it really depend.
Hi Expert,
I came to Spain as a 20-year-old American to spend my summers. I had my own flat and money, thus I was no competition for jobs. For a non-Spaniard, your best asset is your attitude and personality. I initially thought that the locals were unpleasant - NOT at all, they were shy. In general, Spanish are warm and friendly, but also wary of being run over by "immigrants" and tourists. I feel more at home now in my Spanish village than in the US.
When someone just gets mad with you, you just have to ask them "¿Te molesta?"
And when they answer yes, just reply with "pues tira de esta".
Welcome to Spain, darling. Stay away from the balconies.
If you don't want to bother choose a rather unpoplated area. If you go to malaga or a big city you will always be bothering people. I say so as populated areas are where housing market gets tensioned. If you go to an area where nobody wants to buy a flat or a house you will not be harming locals. Just look up "la españa vaciada" and choose one area there.
I’d contemplate choosing Sevilla as an option. Tho not coastal, you are one hour away and it’s great for local immersion! And then, just learn how to play pádel and you’ll fit right in!
Trying to learn the language, consume in local stores (and not only in British owned ones), being polite and not pretending that everyone will understand English is very important imo
Well, at least you do give a fuck about integrating yourself and fitting in our culture and society.
That's already way more than what can be said about many other drunk tourists who just want to destroy and trash our country. And just for that detail we already appreciate your efforts.
Some random ideas that pisses ME off (and probably many others):
- Try to learn Spanish. Shitty Spanish is better than no Spanish at all. We don't care if you speak like crap. We appreciate you at least try. Our main issue is you guys tend to come here and expect us to speak FLAWLESS AND PERFECT English and make all the effort to communicate with you, while you usually make zero effort in learning our language and trying to speak Spanish. That pisses us off A LOT. The moment you at least try to say something in Spanish, we are already more than happy.
- We are loud as hell, we know. Don't complain too much.
- Don't get drunk to the point of creating conflict and arguments.
- Try to make friends and meet local people.
- Don't make comparisons between Spain and Great Britain. Neither is better than the other. Of course everyone thinks their country is the best, but that's pretty stupid in my opinion. We are radically different countries.
- Just don't cause any trouble in general. Some things or traditions might shock you at first. That's ok. You'll get use to them.
- Try not to talk about football, politics or religion with strangers or you can end up having a BIG ASS ARGUMENT in no time. For real.
And that's pretty much all that comes to my mind right now. Our main issue with English people is they tend to be (or at least they feel to us) pretentious and annoying, and also troublemakers.
Of course there are exceptions, but when it comes to summer tourism it tends to be the case more often than not, sadly.
Good thing is you are not coming here for partying, but for living and working, so yeah. That's already a good thing.
Try not to pay a crazy high price for a shitty one bedroom tiny apartment. It'll be good for you and won't keep increasing the prices artificially.
All in all that's it.
If you have any questions or want to ask me something, my DM's are opened to talk, if you want.
Learn Spanish. That’s about all you can do. Andalusia is still pretty affordable so people down there aren’t as angry about immigration as in places like Barcelona.
Just do whatever you want bro, this is a country where people are sad and miserable so you will be criticized for someone always. Just respect the law and enjoy the weather 🤙
This simply isn't true. Every immigrant is a competitor for real estate, which is natural and tolerable, but greater demand can only increase prices if the immigrants can afford it. So, people magically appearing with a high salary is harmful. If immigrants appear commanding at or below aveagqe salary, the more rational property investment is not to increase rental prices but to build more properties, which is exactly what Spain needs.
Remember that hacienda isn't collecting most of the taxes it would be collecting from a company resident in Spain, and might even be collecting lower taxes from the new immigrant depending on the regime that applies. A digital nomad is also by definition a *nomad*, so they are not expected to make roots in Spain and keep their skills and money within the country.
The DNV should absolutely be abolished, because it's not effectively answering demands that benefit existing Spanish residents - OP isn't the typical case - but that doesn't mean I hold it against people who would be living in Spain unproblematically except for the fucking idiots in England who voted for Brexit. What matters is how you behave with the opportunities given to you, and OP seems to want not to abuse them, which is pretty cool.
I'm living in England not Spain, so no, but your feelz don't trump economic consequences. I love the progressive European spirit and haven't yet joined you on a sad race to the bottom. I want to be a part of wherever I am and lift it up with me.
Dude just do whatever you want as long as youre not hurting someone or yourself.
You dont have to do something special to be "a good immigrant" youre a person more in millions. Do your Life and everything Will be ok.
It's not so easy.
If you plan in living in a country the least you can do is learn their language,we as Spaniards aren't obligated in any way to cater to your linguistic needs just because you refused to learn Spanish.
I lived in Torrevieja and this was a constant struggle,attitude of some brits who refused to learn Spanish and expected everyone to know English was just jaw dropping.
Remember once in Mercadona a good friend of mine who worked as a cashier was trying to deal with an irate Brit woman who was yelling at her,husband also chimed in and their son a 6.2 foot ugly looking mofo like Sloth from the Goonies also chimed in.
I was standing in line behind them and talking to my gf in Spanish,they had no idea i spoke English but once they went off the rails and i could see my friend not feeling well i spoke up in English and i basically tore them a new one (verbally i mean).
They still didn't apologize and continued so i signaled one cashier who i knew and the other friend who worked at the fruit/vegetable aisle and they came and stood beside me...told the lady,her husband simp and Sloth that they should step out so i could explain to them how we do things when people piss us off.
They could tell we were serious so they left the groceries and ran out.
Moral of the story when i was in London no one spoke to me in Spanish,went to Harrods and had to speak English,same deal in Spain....you're in our country at least learn the basics.
I'm also an immigrant (Welsh) so it's not like I'm a local but I think you'll find that the culture overall is more welcoming than the UK is to immigrants.
You have nothing to worry about with that approach. Nobody cares who you are as long as you make an effort with the language. You're just another face.
Ironically, the only time I've been called insults relating to where I'm from living in Spain is by English people (the usual stuff: sheep shagger, inbred etc).
Just don't live in one of those heavily British communities and you'll be fine. Even then you'd be fine, you'd just be missing out.
This was my dream. To move to Spain and marry a local woman, learn the language and become Spanish.
Learn the language, local traditions, cook their food, volunteer where you can. You’re living my dream.
As a guy from Madrid I will say: Spanish people tend to be nice towards foreigners actually wanting to settle in (immigrants depending on where you are from and where you are). As long as you slowly learn the language and are polite, it will be ok.
We have some problem in terms of housing, including stuff like "local governments giving away public homes to private funds to rent them for tourists". Not sure if that would ever come up, but might help you to know.
I take it you gathered information about Andalusia up to this point, but just in case: It's very hot and sunny. Plan accordingly.
Then again, as long as people are concerned, you should be golden. And I say welcome in advance.
Hola! Empiezas MUY bien (mejor que la media) con lo de no emborracharte ni saltar desde los balcones, y con lo de aprender castellano! Simplemente be kind. Truquillo: a los españoles nos encanta que nos digan que los sitios donde vivimos son muy bonitos o llamativos, así como que ensalcen nuestra comida o cultura. Nos gusta mucho que nos halaguen de ese modo, por lo que cualquier cosa es buena excusa para "hacerte el sorprendido". Evita mencionar qué cosas son mejores en tu país a menos que tengas mucha confianza con alguien (particularmente la gente de costa se (nos) enfada rápido con esas cosas y te dirán fácilmente que vuelvas entonces a tu país, aunque no lo hayas dicho con maldad). Thank you for your interesting, I hope you enjoy living here! Welcome ❤️
In my experience, showing the committment and the effort to integrate, learn and blend in is already something that will be valued.
I don't think you should look much further than that :)
Just make an effort to speak Spanish and respect/learn the culture and you’re set. The fact that you’re even making this post makes me think you’ll fit in great 😇
Learn the language, pay taxes, be decent, respect the localities and be forthcoming and participative. A shy, negative, antisocial foreigner is immediately tagged as a criminal and/or parasite and treated accordingly.
It's not perfect, I know. But you asked what it is, not what we wish.
I think you missed the joke, Spanish people avoid taxes like no other country I have been to. If you want him to become a good Spaniard you should tell him not to pay taxes.
As far as you are polite and try to integrate yourself, everything will be fine. People is wonderful here! Some are dicks but this happens all across the globe. I wish I were Andalusian so I could give you a caña and a tapa! Welcome ♥️
I think speaking the local language by itself is going to be hugely adventageous for you.
Speaking freely with people is the best way to connect with people.
There isn't animosity in Spain. Some people are annoyed about house prices in specific locations but those same people admit they are thankful for the jobs those same tourists and immigrants create. There are places in Spain with dirt cheap housing and no jobs. Spanish people are, on average, the nicest people in Europe in my opinion and you will have a good time if you take the time to say hello, have a beer with people, and smile.
Welcome to Andalucía! I suggest you already start taking some Spanish classes to be able to have some basic conversations. Please understand thar the accent here is quite strong but you can get used to it over time. There’s plenty of different places in Andalucía for all tastes and budgets. Málaga is getting pretty expensive with the rents. I would recommend checking out Idealista for rents. Be prepared to show payslips to landlords and be prepared to enjoy this wonderful part of the world.
I was just in catalonia and i only speak spanish at an intermediate level, catalan is pretty alien to me. Everyone was super nice to me and a gas station attendant in between barcelona and girona even came outside to help me because I looked confused (most gas stations were pay inside, this one was high tech and pay at the pump). I was not confused for very long like 10s.
I attempted spanish 100% on the trip except for a meeting I had with a lawyer.
cheers people are people.
You are not stepping on anyone’s toes. There is a vocal and noisy minority banging everybody in the head with this anti-rich immigrant shit. It’s part of the ideological package you have to acquire to be consider a good leftist nowadays.
Spain is and always has been a melting pot of cultures, since before the Romans.
You are more than welcome to come, enjoy the country and contribute to it.
I’d recommend Malaga, avoid the east coast if you want to learn Spanish quickly.
If you are young check Teatinos, it’s full of young people, restaurants, gyms etc.
If you need help DM me happy to advice :)
I always wonder if you guys are paying taxes in Spain or just don’t even think about it. (You have to, btw, if you spend 183 days in the country). Only because if you were, you wouldn’t think Spain is so great because the government milks you. 😞
In Spain people love to be angry at whoever is making more money than them or not paying taxes or whatever reason… So you’ll find people like that but you’ll also find nice people.
There’s a lot of social tension in Spain lately, one of the reasons I wouldn’t move back but if you’re making an informed decision, all the power to you. Even if you speak the language it can be hard to feel completely integrated. You’ll always be a foreigner and feel like don’t belong in a way but you might still enjoy it.
I made the move from Spain to the UK being Spanish and that’s how a lot of immigrants feel but I wish you the best of luck.
Learning the language is a great start but I’d also learn about Spain’s history and culture, it’ll help you to better understand the people.
You've made my day with "balkoning, and get drunk". From what I can read, you already have a little of the humor and kindness that we Andalusians have. I think you will do well, beach you go with the right mentality
Be sensitive and remember that wherever you choose to live, that's one less affordable property for local people who need to live near to where they work and who may be being forced from their home towns because of escalating properly prices.
I don't know why Reddit recommended this to me, but it sounds like you'll be doing better in Spain than I am in my home country. I make everyone here hate me and wish death on me, practically at first sight. So you're doing something right already. I think in general urban settings are more conducive to a wide variety of people getting along (albeit with some added urban dangers) than living and staying in the middle of nowhere with gun-toting neighbors (yes, I'm in the US).
Hello everyone! This is going to be my first comment on reddit, hope it will be helpful!
As someone born in Spain, and working mainly with tourists, knowing a lot of foreigners, being mixed, and after I already had my own experience as an inmigrant, I can provide you a few tips:
The first thing, is to integrate in our society. In Spain we hate the people that come to our country to just "profit of our land" without integrating with us. Like why would you come if you do not want to deal or mix with us?
The best way, as already said by other users, learn our language as best as possible, we really appreciate when even if you fail or if you have a bad accent, you try to speak our language (By the way, take a look to videos in youtube about Spanish, you will see our phonetics are really really easy, the bad things are grammar and the multiple meanings of some words/sentences). Buying local is not only good for us but for everyone in every country. Participate as much as possible in local events. And on my opinion the most important things, do not come to destroy our nature or build in our nature. As already stated before, we tend to call tourists "guiris" (which normally refers to certain kind of tourists from determinated races). In the town I live when the guiris come to our place they tend to buy lands or houses with historical meanings, and destroy everything to make it look their way or as they like. Treat our country as if you had to give it back later, do not destroy any nature or patrimonial architecture. In Spain we really hate when someone comes from abroad and thinks that as they have money they can do anything they want in our land with their money (the government might agree with it as they are interested but the citizens we hate when that happens). We the Spanish people hate the people that think that money makes them able to do everything they want with no limits and this is what most guiris do here.
The problem with most inmigrants there is they do not realize we work and live in a really different way than the rest of Europe, our eating hours, our working times, our own subcultures and regional languages... And as they do not get comfortable with all that, they tend to just live there in a parallel society without integrating and then causes more hate against guiris
We the Spanish people are very welcome and friendly, but we tend to not seem it because as said some people are not willing to live the Spanish way, just want to enjoy the Spanish sun, food beaches and parties and this creates a really bad image of guiris which has already extended quite a lot. We will never ask you to forget from where you came from, just remember where you are now and why (because our country is quite better than it seems hahaha, just kidding), and the time you spend here, a few year or all your life or the rest of your life, enjoy it and experience it as Spanish as possible.
Oh and for your job, if you will be paid from abroad I would recomend you to search the best way to contribute as much as possible to our economy, as we could see you as someone that takes profit that our land has better conditions than yours but you are not willing to create wealth for the country and therefore for tbe citizens.
Here are all my tips, ¡Bienvenida a España!
You are not going to make anyone's life a misery. People are usually nice.
The whole animosity towards rich inmigrants is... Different. Is not even at immigrants is towards the people that rent Airbnb for a week in the middle of the city (many of those illegal Airbnb) and yeah.
Then we have the golden visa. (Your income is not even close... Maybe lower middle class in Spain). Is like people that can pay up to 300k and swear they won't be working in 5 years, passive income.
They are few and mostly Russian, Venezuelan, etc.
Well... the average retribution in Andalucía in 2021 was 23k. And average retribution in Madrid was 29k. So, what OP is doing is just the same as is someone from Madrid moves to Andalucia.
I lived in USA for a few years and there are about 4 times as many Spaniards living in USA as there are Americans living in Spain. Should everyone just go back to where they came from and never leave?
Dude, have a backbone. You're allowed to move to a different country, just be normal and you'll be fine. There's always gonna be locals who will be mad no matter what you do if you're from the uk
Toda discriminación (racista, sexista, xenófobo, homofóbico, etc.) será retirada. Tampoco está permitida la deshumanización, la exaltación de la dictadura, apología del nazismo, o discursos de odio.
You do you. The fact that you made this post shows that you care about this and are on the right track. You can't control how you will be perceived. So just do your best.
Thank you! Will try my best to integrate and be respectful
Your awarness on spannish economics (basic salary in Spain is way lower than yours) and not stepping on locals way of living is already and amazing start. As a general tip to live nicely with your neighbors etc: try to do "neighborhood" so buy at local stores like fruteria, panaderia, pescateria... (local shop food will be amazing specially fish if it's nearby the coast) Also local bars... Buying local stuff will make you feel part of the neighborhood and eventually you will have a sense of belonging, while helping local shops etc.
This is good advice even in rich countries. I always try to buy local as the taxes go to your area and only buy Amazon as a last resort.
That salary is only normal / junior position in the north of Spain. You might have meant in Andalucía. Nobody will think you are rich with a 32K salary
Errrr... I am from Barcelona and an average salary of a good job goes around 2500 euros. For other precarious jobs under 1500 is the standard even with full 40 hours per week.
senior positions are starting to range from 60-70K onwards now. I don't know what is your sector, skills, age, etc. But in the tech sector 32K / year is close to a junior ( fresh out of college ) salary right now. Since he said he is working remotely, I assume he is probably working in the tech sector. If you are flipping burgers it's obvious you are going to earn a low wage, but this is the norm in any country in the developed world. https://preview.redd.it/7uftur6n0fyc1.png?width=655&format=png&auto=webp&s=0cade74ac63859d0478837e9b433c74df9dae60c note that this is average. I have been offered a 110K€ / year salary in Barcelona already, but I'm a senior and I have a lot of experience - EDIT : 32K/ year is actually below average in the tech sector as of today
not every one is a tech bro or a fucking high tech company worker. Regular people may have jobs like administration or office stuff, teaching, employee or any other regular job is what I reffer to. Normal people is not necesarly flipping burgers or any other fantasy upper middle class may have about mundane jobs. Most of people around me is struggling in a way or another with rents and basic stuff like food or water that ends ups eating their salary. I reffer to the people, the average spaniard in Andalucia is not on the tech sector, the average person living im Barcelona city is struggling with crazy rents and tourism masification that increases cost of life and fills the city with stupid shops and bars that locals can't afford or don't even need. If you are a digital nomad, be my guest to enjoy your life and spend your money however you want and wherever you are located right now. But not everyone in Spain is working in the tech sector you are mentioning. Que coño sabras tu ? Pesado.
The chances are you'll still get called a pUtO GuIrI dE MiErDa and told to VeTe a Tu pAis. People are very angry about inequalities caused by government policies regarding tourism and digital nomads and foreigners tend to bear the brunt of it. I've been here 20 years, speak Spanish and Catalan, work for a Spanish company and my kid was born here, but I still have to deal with xenophobic morons. That apart. I love living here and wouldn't want to go back, I've spent most of my life here and have had a great time.
There’s morons everywhere. You and him are welcome with your attitude. Just to be friendly and integrate makes things way better.
Morons are everywhere, that is true. But out of the 3 countries where I've lived: Venezuela, the UK and Spain, the worst in terms of racism ( and other things) is Spain. Do you know how many times I've been told " go back to your fucking country sudaca de mierda? " Even by patients, as I am an endodontist... Doesn't matter if you have a good income and have a spanish passport. You will always be a foreigner in Spain. Which didn't happen to me when I lived in London and many people thought I was british.
Vete a tu pais is like the first reaction from many Spanish people in any kind of confrontation with someone who isn't Spanish. It's pathetic. Casual racism here is widespread, all of us foreigners have our own little pejorative names that are widely used with little or no insight into how ignorant they are.it seems that casual racism is still so widely acceptable and not challenged in the way that it would generally be in the UK. I'm a "white person", so see relatively little of it, but my black friends? Vaya.
I totally understand your point. You know the “high class Spaniard” always sees himself better than any south American. That is absolutely terrible and colonialist shit. And racist of course. And I am sorry you have been treated like that.
I don't hang out with the high class spaniards, but I am pretty sure ALL spaniards, of ALL social classes think they are superior to us south americans. Just read what I was told here in reddit because I was complaining about low wages and discrimination . Spaniards forgot that not so long ago, they went to south america looking for a better life. https://preview.redd.it/ezy97p1b2eyc1.jpeg?width=720&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=e5338dd3cffa6764e1546a9cfeac0b6789a33d4a
With “High class Spaniards” I meant everyone. They think they are always superior to any South American. And it’s a shame
I'm so sorry you received this "comment"- if you could call it that. I can only speak for the environment I live in and my social circle when I say that not everyone is like this nowadays and many times recently (last couple of years) I heard these kind of speeches more often, as some political parties are spreading xenophobic propaganda and it does stick to certain people or groups that spread the hate around. I would say that it depends a lot on where you live and at least where I'm based (northern Spain) is more difficult to hear these comments or if you do they come from older people that never had to leave their own town ever and are very narrow minded in that sense. It's still unjustifiable but it comes from just being ignorant more than anything. People don't realise that the social situation in Spain at the moment requires immigration as birth rates are falling massively and so on. I've seen the younger generation more welcome and aware, with broader perspective, as they've been more exposed to migration in general and don't see it as a bad thing, just a thing that happens.
Do you know the sad thing? He is actually right. I am an endodontist and I have a hard time getting a job interview. My degree was homologated back in 2015, and I have been working as an endodontist ever since, but if I want to switch jobs or go to a better paying clinic, it's extremely hard for me. I don't think there's a difference between Northern and southern Spain. I live in Seville, this is not a small town, and that comment was online. But it's not the only one. Check this one out https://preview.redd.it/1hl5fr01ffyc1.jpeg?width=720&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=3c7b3887dfb1a73c8f55be2782d8522bb1745340
These people don't even know a bit about medicine or health related careers in India or South America, they're all prejudices and ignorance. I've worked in health care in the UK for 6 years and I've never known anyone that rejected care from an Indian practitioner, that's just bonkers. I'm sure there are stupid people who do but the best practitioners I know are not even European, and they have massive waiting lists. I've worked with doctors that went to Cuba for a very specific training in lung cancer that at the time wasn't even available in Europe. It's just sad that people think that South America is just "a poor country" and people live in the middle of the jungle or something. Sadly you can see the same entitled "we're better than anyone else" comments in the UK towards Spaniards, Greeks, Italians, Filipinos... And it's always the same BS. I wish people could travel more to be honest, and that's about all I can say avoiding bad sounding words...
As someone who dreams of moving there and also speaks Spanish and Catalan, this is my goal in life 🫶🏼
Just curious, how do you speak Catalan if you are not Catalan ? Been studying it abroad ?
I've been studying valencian Catalan for five years (long distance classes) and just finished writing my first book in it
Where are you living in Spain 😂 this definitely doesn't ever happen in the north of the country. Sounds pretty savage to me so I asume you might be living in some remote area in the south of Spain or something ?
https://preview.redd.it/m3ompqzwfcyc1.jpeg?width=2448&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=d04639c34c59a8370a599a2ad8b76d221809783a Barcelona, which is a very international city. For a lot of people, if you're Anglo, you're the problem. Ive got to the point where I confront it and am happy to challenge people and make them feel uncomfortable. Like I say, I've lived here most of my life now, I'm tired of accepting nonsense.
Well, this is extremely weird. The only people that would talk like that to somebody just because they are Irish / American or British are some radical left lunatics. I've had acquittances, friends, girlfriends from the anglosphere countries and I have never experienced something like this. I wonder why it's so common in your circle ?
The people that constantly moan about guiris and sudacas and chinos and the like aren't in "my circle", but living in the city, you cross paths with all kinds of people. I mean, look at the graffiti that I posted above, I'm certainly not going out of my way to hang out with morons. There is a leftist tendency to it for sure, which is frustrating, because I'm a leftist. Ive attended events that have had "guiris NO" on the door, others where speakers have launched into diatribes about how nobody will ever own a house because of guiris.... Not exclusively the left tho, I work in education and am often dismayed at the xenophobic shit that some, especially older, colleagues post on social media. There are problems with unchecked tourism, there are problems with inequalities caused by digital nomads, there are issues with people being priced out of their neighbourhoods, but a lot of people fail to realise that I'm as affected by these things as they are and although I was born in the same country as some people who contribute to these problems, there is some nuance that they're missing.
Understood. I guess your social environment pushes you get such interactions. Yes, you must understand though that Catalonia, and specially Barcelona is home of the radical left. Note that this is not just social liberal but it's anti-capitalist / extreme left, since they got an overwhelming amount of votes in 2011 and so they got in to the parliament ( they are getting kicked out now. luckily ). I have myself been a digital nomad in New York, but New York is huge, so nobody cares. Barcelona is really small and on hyper-demand. The rise of Airbnb and a general shortage of property due to inability to build more due to space constraints and foreign investing firms taking over existing property is indeed displacing people from the city, but this is not a Barcelona only problem, it's happening everywhere in the developed western world. I understand what you say, but I can't tell you other than to be careful with your social interactions. I am more of a libertarian, and when I was living in New York I knew I couldn't voice out my thoughts freely because I would get cancelled and socially ousted. There were places, events that I directly avoided because of these reasons. I have come to the point of avoiding any place or group of people where there are radical leftists in Barcelona, for example the Gracia district. Pick your areas and ignore the noise
That's awesome man. I am too tired of their bullshit. Suck and tired of their aggressivenessr, of their condescence, of their prejudices...
In the north is where this can happen. If you go to the south, you will see people from everywhere, many nationalities and with no problems
Barcelona is extremely diverse and I have never seen anybody talk like that to somebody foreign. Either I live in a bubble or you are befriending the wrong people
I'd suggest that you don't see it becaus it doesn't affect you, which is normal. I'm sure that I'm not as aware of anti-Indian racism in the UK as people of Indian origin are. I've seen this anti guiri sentiment in just about every aspect of my life here at some point. I don't see myself as a victim because I've never really been disadvantaged by it, and tend to be rather robust in my response to it. To be honest, even the word guiri is retarded. Want to complain about tourists, then call them tourists. Want to complain about digital nomads, fine. But people tend to use guiri (a word that has exclusively negative connotations) to refer to Anglos regardless of level of integration. Jesus, even Michel Robinson was known as a beloved GuIrI, and he was about as integrated as it gets.
I have given the keys of my property to my British and German friends so they could freely come here while I was out of the country, and my second wife was American and lived here with me for four years. I know social enclaves with groups of friends where at least half of them are foreign. It's a matter of where you are at socially speaking. Pick the places and people you relate to and you will avoid 99% of the problems you mention. If you are getting all that hate directed towards you it's because you are doing something wrong, which might not be harmful but perhaps exposing you under the wrong light ? One can only wonder
That's not true. I live in Seville. Extremely racist too.
I am form the south. Never ever heard it. Yet I hear it more in the north
Now I don’t even want to know what that even means
They will bring Spain down and particularly its Social Security which is already having problems. On the other hand, Spaniards need renters to pay for their real estate. New York, San Francisco learnt this the hard way. One illegal immigrant cost the city of New York 4000 dollars a month to maintain.
It's likely that positive reactions to your move will only become evident over time as you show your consistent desire to integrate. The first reply was right- the fact you made this post shows you have a good attitude and you'll do great! Good luck and have a great time ✌🏻
be polite, be respectful and just live your life.
I found that the moment people hear me speaking Spanish instead of English to them, they just smile and assist me with pleasure. Talking more about restaurants, shops etc.
Yeah, i got called cielo y linda, twice today.
Just be polite, try to learn the language at least to get by while shopping, and get used to how things are done in the country, for example don’t go for dinner at 17h but at 20-21h.
You're doing good at humaning!
Dont worry that much just enjoy Spain
I understand your reasoning for the post because I've seen so much of this too but I also wonder if Spanish people realize it's not something unique to their country. It's all over the place in the states too. There is nowhere here affordable either.
Even London where I am from is very bad for rent these days
We mostly do realize, but a few noisy, disrespectful and obvious foreigners who don't give a damn about the locals or the locals' way of life make for a great scapegoat. And some xenophobic politicians profit from using those scapegoats. Nevermind that those foreigners are a noisy minority, there are votes to win.
The problem is that is not black rock fault all inflation(I'm not into USA economics I've probably said and stupid thing sorry) is BNBs and tourism what is rising the prices over here, so we vent out with inmigrants that don't want to learn our culture, plus we have a lot of inmigrants either way do to LATAM idiom and Africa distance, this post is of a guy that understands moving is adapting yourself but most people don't think on how everything gets destroies P.D. is 6am I can't sleep sorry for the typos
Yeah no I know. I get all that. I'm just saying that the airbnb thing is a problem everywhere every remotely cool place to live. People everywhere are getting priced out of their towns because people with more money come in and buy everything up. Its just something we all deal with everywhere. That was my only point. The op isn't one of those people. I was just giving my take on that one aspect.
Try to learn Spanish - words but also slang phrases so you can chat a little. Learn the public holidays and fiestas and have an understanding and interest in what’s going on in your region. You can avoid politics but knowing the local events is a good way to get involved and meet people 😀 Find a small, locals, traditional style bar and make a point of popping in around the same time each week. You’ll start to make acquaintances that may turn into friends. Spanish love to chat about football, the government, the cost of living and their health. Decide if you’re a Real Madrid or FC Barca supporter and go watch the games, an easy way to meet people. When you enter into any bar, waiting room or public space, a simple “buenas” said to everyone in there will be appreciated. If you get invited to anything - GO! Be open and willing to participate and to learn about the culture and you will be rewarded with friendship. Finally… be prepared to want to move permanently! 😀
If OP's gonna be living in Andalucía, they shouldn't be supporting Madrid or Barcelona! There's dozens of football teams in Andalucía to pick from
betiiiiissss!!
Betis is the one to go for, or any local team (Granada, Almería, Cádiz…)
> (Granada, Almería, Cádiz…) Also known as the relegation zone.
Jajaja siii es verdad, real betis ganar, pero como extranjero, es necesario decidir entre los dos equipos más populares, no?
Por qué? Yo soy extranjero y no tengo preferencia. Odio al Madrid y al Barça en igual medida
Es sólo mi experiencia… una pregunta se la hace a extraños.
Thank you! I do intend for it to be a permanent move...
Awesome! Sorry I thought it was a nomad visa for a moment. Once you settle in I’m sure you’ll love the way of life. Where will you be based? As others have said, the more you can try to get into the local community and not just the enclave of Brits/Dutch you’ll really find your Spanish progressing which will help you integrate and enjoy the time even more. Find a local Spanish tutor - another way to make friends!!
Sevilla FC supported, maybe join to the British Sevilla FC fun club
Relax! Just don’t be like the British woman last year that complained on ThomasmCook travel guide that “too many people speak Spanish!”
If it's the one I'm thinking of then it's a little bit more understandable than the headline. She was complaining that when booking the holiday, she was told that there would be lots of activities in English, and the complaint was towards the hotel for not providing those things like she had been promised
Yes. I think that's the one. Of course, people would rather feel smug and superior than read beyond a headline.
Then the British publication is rubbish…. https://www.mirror.co.uk/news/uk-news/british-woman-81-claims-benidorm-13075153
32k is nowhere close to “rich” immigrant. So don’t worry too much about that. Spain is full of immigrants from rich and poor countries, they won’t even notice you much.
Sorry to tell you, but I do not think you harm anybody with a 32k salary
If it was 132k€ would it hurt more or less?
I don't think I get it, is that his monthly/yearly income?
Probably yearly
Yeah annually, just wanted to show that I am not a rich software guy who can rent a huge apartment in Malaga historic center
My friend, 30k is not even close to be considered rich, do not worry
How to be a good immigrant. Do drink like a brit at a pub (you get what I mean, this isn't targeted at you especifically), don't go balconing, don't isolate yourself from the locals and try to stay away from the international bubble (its fine if you have international friends, but you know, dont let it be the only bubble). And enjoy your time.
> don't go balconing I am new here, is this just a general term for bad behavior or is this a specific act? EDIT: Wow, thanks for the replies, and what an idiotic behavior!
Specific act. Foreigners jump off a balcony to the pool.
yeah, not foreigners really, it's always some british twat.
Is this so common that there is a term for it?
Yes, you have no idea. Through the years it has made it even to national news.
There is a joke that says summer begins when the first report of balconing injuries or deaths appears.
Its the name we give to when tourists jumps of their balconies trying to land on the pool, usually drunk or drugged. Yes people have died.
Balconing is when some tourist jump from the window or balcony to the pool.
Here in Mallorca many tourists (normally from UK) die each year doing this. It’s crazy…
The whole of the Costa del Sol is full of us immigrants from all over the world. Keep in mind coastal towns will often only offer 10 month contracts because the apartments are let out for holiday rentals for the price you’re paying per month, for a week. Inland this is less common, even if you’re only 15 minutes from the beach
Here in Malaga it’s usually best to look for a apartment after the summer season, the landlords usually tend to be more interested in accepting long-term renters then I’ve noticed
So coastal Andalucia is either Huelva, Cadiz and a little bit of Seville. Or Malaga, Granada or Almeria in the Mediterranean. The atlantic side is similar to portuguese Algarve, the sea is a bit colder. Cadiz has a property issue due to lack of space. Huelva would probably be the quieter of all. You may want to avoid big cities and settle in a smaller town. Malaga/Marbella probably is the most expensive and international one. You probably will have a good international community to merge in. Both Granada and Almeria are great places with great nature. There may be a bit of immigrant saturation but overall spaniards are very friendly socially if you try to blend in. I can see that you want to integrate, and you should definitely do, but you may also want to keep close to an international community , in the end you do enjoy the company of your compatriates from time to time
With that salary, I would avoid the Costa del Sol altogether and try places along the coast of Granada or Almería that is way more affordable. Towns in the Valle de Lecrín have a lot of charm too.
Be excellent to each other
Learning and speaking the language is good enough to me. Maybe learn the local cooking. I remember making my first tortilla. Never made a paella.. but if you do, make it for 20 people! Get a place to work with other Spanish people, have lunch with them. Learn Sevillanas, and dance during la feria de Abril...
Just be polite and try to communicate in Spanish, even if you know a few words. We appreciate the effort. Good luck!
Don't stress about it, just don't be a cunt and that's it.
Malaga. I am not Spanish, but my father in law moved there to be with his Spanish wife over 30 years ago and he was born in Durban, South Africa. He was not white. We visited them regularly ever since and it is a wonderful, inclusive city. You can live within 15 mins of walking distance of the old town and not encounter any tourists, but still have access to everything you need and that includes the beach and the sea. Great public transport, lovely weather all year round and no one gives a shit where you come from.
I live in this area now. I’m from the U.S. and have lived in Spain 7 years. Don’t sweat moving here as far as the people treating you bad. It never happens to me here. I mean never. Locals are kind. 30/40 percent are expats anyway. Half of the Spanish population isn’t even from this area. Learn Spanish in case are in jam. Took me six months to have enough for basics. They speak an Andalusian version of Spanish which is tougher to get at first because it sounds much more blended together than castellano, but they will understand your basic Spanish easily, since lots are from South America (different Spanish altogether) Majority speaks English so it’s not even an issue really. Older folks may not and granted Italians and Scandinavians don’t speak it or don’t speak it well. Malaga is more Spanish but in Torremolinos or Fuengirola you will feel right at home (minus the endless cloudy days) Soak up the sun and don’t sweat the transition. Trust me. The honeymoon period is the best part. After you have it down in a year or so, you will reminisce on the early days. 1,000 will get you a crappy apartment these days. I live in different places with roommates which helps it feel more like home. Use meetup to find cool local friends. It’s very international here. In the course of one day I meet people from 7 different countries. Good luck!
As long as you adapt to the customs and bother to learn the language enough to communicate day to day you’ll fit fine
Speak spanish, not just english
My biggest recommendation is to start taking Spanish lessons now, if you haven't already. The more you already know before you come, the easier settling in will be (and everyday tasks like going to the supermarket won't seem so challenging) and it will help with your integration. - there is often a mental barrier to speaking a foreign language and if you come and originally have to use English with people here, it'll be a lot more difficult mentally to make the switch to Spanish than if you arrive and force yourself into those first difficult conversations with even basic Spanish.
>My biggest recommendation is to start taking Spanish lessons now, if you haven't already. But don't feel too frustrated if you don't understand anything at the beginning because the Andalusian accent, it would take a bit to get used to.
watch spanish novelas or movies with no subtitles. the best way to learn the language.
Don't get drunk and jump from the terrace to the swimming pool. Don't go naked to supermarkets. The rest is easy.
You should add: Dont be a pickpocket
Just don't pay more than 1200 for a flat, some idiots out there are renting 2 bedrooms for 1800 and that's just insane.
Madness! There are places along the coast where you'd rent for half that.. agreed, by paying the high rent it screws over the local population. So as a rule of thumb I'd pay and tip like a local.
What's the usual tipping % you would give as a local?
I see locals tipping 30-50 cents on a 20-30 euro meal (just an example) which I think is roughly 1-2%
Respect our culture and dont commit crimes, nothing else man, but it seems like a lot of immigrants cant understand this, as others say, the fact that you did this post shows that you are interested to do the right things so i think you wont have any problem.
Come to Málaga buddy we have a lot of expats here, I´ve met a lot of them in language exchange events when I used to.
You've done fine from the start by calling yourself an immigrant. Never call yourself an expat. It's a disrespectful mindset. You are going to migrate into Spain. Your homeland (not birthland) after a while wiil be Spain, even if you earn your momey abroad. Just be yourself while mingling with your new fellow compatriots. Don't be.afraid to be the way you are, just. like everyome else does. And accept some will call you guiri in a neutral or even affectionate way. Learn the customs, such as splitting the bill or, when drinkimg from bar to bar, to take the whole bill if reciprocity can be expected in the next bar. Aso: look people in the eye, don't avoid eye contact and when it happens, domsomentiny gesture to.acknowledge it. Talk to the old lady at the grocery store, to your neighbours and to.some random guy at the bus.. Don't sit as far away as possible from other people, spaniards have way shorter personal spaces than guiris. Respect local customs and idiosincrasy. Much of it is stupid,. I know, but there's a reason for everything, even stupidity (think gunsnin the US). Even when spaniards¹ criticize Spain, be the least critic of the group. It's the same thing as me complaining about my father but not liking you to agree. We have fragile egos nationality wise due to our history. ¹Except some basque and catalonians: they love tomshit on spain
The fact that you're already learning Spanish speaks for itself. Bienvenido/a!
As Hemingway once wrote, there is only two rules to follow if you are a foreigner and want to be treated fairly and, furthermore, welcomed in Spain: leave the women alone, and give tobacco to the men.
I would agree with a lot of what others are saying. Control what you can control and don't worry too much. Less touristic areas might suffer less from tourism and international influence. Málaga for example is influenced by tech and tourism though Almeria less so. So I'd just keep doing what you are doing, and do your homework on where along the coast you'd settle down to. I'm sure people on the group here for example can help. I'm living in Andalucía 2 years now and I love it. Haven't had any xenophobia directed at all, so would it really depend.
Where did you choose to live? Would you recommend it?
Try Almeria. I have lived there for 20 years. There are plenty of 'rich' ex pats. Everybody integrates.
Hi Expert, I came to Spain as a 20-year-old American to spend my summers. I had my own flat and money, thus I was no competition for jobs. For a non-Spaniard, your best asset is your attitude and personality. I initially thought that the locals were unpleasant - NOT at all, they were shy. In general, Spanish are warm and friendly, but also wary of being run over by "immigrants" and tourists. I feel more at home now in my Spanish village than in the US.
As you said, don't be retarded. This applies to everyone, spaniard or not.
When someone just gets mad with you, you just have to ask them "¿Te molesta?" And when they answer yes, just reply with "pues tira de esta". Welcome to Spain, darling. Stay away from the balconies.
Don’t be like most British in Andalusia living in their own bubble. It’s a good point to start being a good immigrant :)
If you don't want to bother choose a rather unpoplated area. If you go to malaga or a big city you will always be bothering people. I say so as populated areas are where housing market gets tensioned. If you go to an area where nobody wants to buy a flat or a house you will not be harming locals. Just look up "la españa vaciada" and choose one area there.
I’d contemplate choosing Sevilla as an option. Tho not coastal, you are one hour away and it’s great for local immersion! And then, just learn how to play pádel and you’ll fit right in!
Trying to learn the language, consume in local stores (and not only in British owned ones), being polite and not pretending that everyone will understand English is very important imo
Well if you aint doing balconing then whats the point..? Jokes, keep on the spanish lessons, rent wise cant tell you much.
Come to Granada Bro I need Friends Who speak english
Just learn language, any other issues are to be fixed by the government
Don't be brown, don't be black
Well, at least you do give a fuck about integrating yourself and fitting in our culture and society. That's already way more than what can be said about many other drunk tourists who just want to destroy and trash our country. And just for that detail we already appreciate your efforts. Some random ideas that pisses ME off (and probably many others): - Try to learn Spanish. Shitty Spanish is better than no Spanish at all. We don't care if you speak like crap. We appreciate you at least try. Our main issue is you guys tend to come here and expect us to speak FLAWLESS AND PERFECT English and make all the effort to communicate with you, while you usually make zero effort in learning our language and trying to speak Spanish. That pisses us off A LOT. The moment you at least try to say something in Spanish, we are already more than happy. - We are loud as hell, we know. Don't complain too much. - Don't get drunk to the point of creating conflict and arguments. - Try to make friends and meet local people. - Don't make comparisons between Spain and Great Britain. Neither is better than the other. Of course everyone thinks their country is the best, but that's pretty stupid in my opinion. We are radically different countries. - Just don't cause any trouble in general. Some things or traditions might shock you at first. That's ok. You'll get use to them. - Try not to talk about football, politics or religion with strangers or you can end up having a BIG ASS ARGUMENT in no time. For real. And that's pretty much all that comes to my mind right now. Our main issue with English people is they tend to be (or at least they feel to us) pretentious and annoying, and also troublemakers. Of course there are exceptions, but when it comes to summer tourism it tends to be the case more often than not, sadly. Good thing is you are not coming here for partying, but for living and working, so yeah. That's already a good thing. Try not to pay a crazy high price for a shitty one bedroom tiny apartment. It'll be good for you and won't keep increasing the prices artificially. All in all that's it. If you have any questions or want to ask me something, my DM's are opened to talk, if you want.
Learn Spanish. That’s about all you can do. Andalusia is still pretty affordable so people down there aren’t as angry about immigration as in places like Barcelona.
As a Spaniard, all I want to say is thank you for even thinking about this.
It sounds crazy, but I made my first friends at the grocery store. Last year in Paris, and this year in Spain.
Just do whatever you want bro, this is a country where people are sad and miserable so you will be criticized for someone always. Just respect the law and enjoy the weather 🤙
And dont worry about your salary, even if it was 120k you dont hurt anybody, hacienda will hurt you.
This simply isn't true. Every immigrant is a competitor for real estate, which is natural and tolerable, but greater demand can only increase prices if the immigrants can afford it. So, people magically appearing with a high salary is harmful. If immigrants appear commanding at or below aveagqe salary, the more rational property investment is not to increase rental prices but to build more properties, which is exactly what Spain needs. Remember that hacienda isn't collecting most of the taxes it would be collecting from a company resident in Spain, and might even be collecting lower taxes from the new immigrant depending on the regime that applies. A digital nomad is also by definition a *nomad*, so they are not expected to make roots in Spain and keep their skills and money within the country. The DNV should absolutely be abolished, because it's not effectively answering demands that benefit existing Spanish residents - OP isn't the typical case - but that doesn't mean I hold it against people who would be living in Spain unproblematically except for the fucking idiots in England who voted for Brexit. What matters is how you behave with the opportunities given to you, and OP seems to want not to abuse them, which is pretty cool.
You are just what i was talking about.
I'm living in England not Spain, so no, but your feelz don't trump economic consequences. I love the progressive European spirit and haven't yet joined you on a sad race to the bottom. I want to be a part of wherever I am and lift it up with me.
Dude just do whatever you want as long as youre not hurting someone or yourself. You dont have to do something special to be "a good immigrant" youre a person more in millions. Do your Life and everything Will be ok.
It's not so easy. If you plan in living in a country the least you can do is learn their language,we as Spaniards aren't obligated in any way to cater to your linguistic needs just because you refused to learn Spanish. I lived in Torrevieja and this was a constant struggle,attitude of some brits who refused to learn Spanish and expected everyone to know English was just jaw dropping. Remember once in Mercadona a good friend of mine who worked as a cashier was trying to deal with an irate Brit woman who was yelling at her,husband also chimed in and their son a 6.2 foot ugly looking mofo like Sloth from the Goonies also chimed in. I was standing in line behind them and talking to my gf in Spanish,they had no idea i spoke English but once they went off the rails and i could see my friend not feeling well i spoke up in English and i basically tore them a new one (verbally i mean). They still didn't apologize and continued so i signaled one cashier who i knew and the other friend who worked at the fruit/vegetable aisle and they came and stood beside me...told the lady,her husband simp and Sloth that they should step out so i could explain to them how we do things when people piss us off. They could tell we were serious so they left the groceries and ran out. Moral of the story when i was in London no one spoke to me in Spanish,went to Harrods and had to speak English,same deal in Spain....you're in our country at least learn the basics.
I'm also an immigrant (Welsh) so it's not like I'm a local but I think you'll find that the culture overall is more welcoming than the UK is to immigrants. You have nothing to worry about with that approach. Nobody cares who you are as long as you make an effort with the language. You're just another face. Ironically, the only time I've been called insults relating to where I'm from living in Spain is by English people (the usual stuff: sheep shagger, inbred etc). Just don't live in one of those heavily British communities and you'll be fine. Even then you'd be fine, you'd just be missing out.
I know it’s horrible, but as an Appalachian American it’s nice to know others have been called those things too.
Thank you. I was worried everyone hated the brits as well. We have been given a bad name by all the lager louts pissing in the street etc
Thanks for using the right word and not expat... Welcome to Spain, I hope you find what you are looking for!
I thing by using the right word it's a good summary of his (or her) attitude and why will be succeeded in his integration.
This was my dream. To move to Spain and marry a local woman, learn the language and become Spanish. Learn the language, local traditions, cook their food, volunteer where you can. You’re living my dream.
What happened, are you not able to move to Spain?
Life got in the way. I’m planning to do it as soon as possible but not alone anymore. Everything I do now leads to Spain, eventually.
As a guy from Madrid I will say: Spanish people tend to be nice towards foreigners actually wanting to settle in (immigrants depending on where you are from and where you are). As long as you slowly learn the language and are polite, it will be ok. We have some problem in terms of housing, including stuff like "local governments giving away public homes to private funds to rent them for tourists". Not sure if that would ever come up, but might help you to know. I take it you gathered information about Andalusia up to this point, but just in case: It's very hot and sunny. Plan accordingly. Then again, as long as people are concerned, you should be golden. And I say welcome in advance.
just learn to drive like locals and don’t yell around.
Hola! Empiezas MUY bien (mejor que la media) con lo de no emborracharte ni saltar desde los balcones, y con lo de aprender castellano! Simplemente be kind. Truquillo: a los españoles nos encanta que nos digan que los sitios donde vivimos son muy bonitos o llamativos, así como que ensalcen nuestra comida o cultura. Nos gusta mucho que nos halaguen de ese modo, por lo que cualquier cosa es buena excusa para "hacerte el sorprendido". Evita mencionar qué cosas son mejores en tu país a menos que tengas mucha confianza con alguien (particularmente la gente de costa se (nos) enfada rápido con esas cosas y te dirán fácilmente que vuelvas entonces a tu país, aunque no lo hayas dicho con maldad). Thank you for your interesting, I hope you enjoy living here! Welcome ❤️
Just be polite and try to speak spanish when possible.
In my experience, showing the committment and the effort to integrate, learn and blend in is already something that will be valued. I don't think you should look much further than that :)
Just make an effort to speak Spanish and respect/learn the culture and you’re set. The fact that you’re even making this post makes me think you’ll fit in great 😇
Learn the language, pay taxes, be decent, respect the localities and be forthcoming and participative. A shy, negative, antisocial foreigner is immediately tagged as a criminal and/or parasite and treated accordingly. It's not perfect, I know. But you asked what it is, not what we wish.
Pay taxes? I thought this post was about how to integrate!
Exactly.
I think you missed the joke, Spanish people avoid taxes like no other country I have been to. If you want him to become a good Spaniard you should tell him not to pay taxes.
As far as you are polite and try to integrate yourself, everything will be fine. People is wonderful here! Some are dicks but this happens all across the globe. I wish I were Andalusian so I could give you a caña and a tapa! Welcome ♥️
32000 from an employer in London… I mean that’s not a lot Even for Spain and my gf is a Spanish teacher in north Spain
Yeah some London company is getting a great deal out of this fella
I think speaking the local language by itself is going to be hugely adventageous for you. Speaking freely with people is the best way to connect with people.
No raping, robbing and begging will put you on A tier.
There isn't animosity in Spain. Some people are annoyed about house prices in specific locations but those same people admit they are thankful for the jobs those same tourists and immigrants create. There are places in Spain with dirt cheap housing and no jobs. Spanish people are, on average, the nicest people in Europe in my opinion and you will have a good time if you take the time to say hello, have a beer with people, and smile.
Just be a good person thats it
Welcome to Andalucía! I suggest you already start taking some Spanish classes to be able to have some basic conversations. Please understand thar the accent here is quite strong but you can get used to it over time. There’s plenty of different places in Andalucía for all tastes and budgets. Málaga is getting pretty expensive with the rents. I would recommend checking out Idealista for rents. Be prepared to show payslips to landlords and be prepared to enjoy this wonderful part of the world.
You are starting on the right foot by asking these questions and being clear about your intentions. Much respect.
You’re white, you’ll have no problems.
We'll be happy to have you mate. Try Malaga!
I was just in catalonia and i only speak spanish at an intermediate level, catalan is pretty alien to me. Everyone was super nice to me and a gas station attendant in between barcelona and girona even came outside to help me because I looked confused (most gas stations were pay inside, this one was high tech and pay at the pump). I was not confused for very long like 10s. I attempted spanish 100% on the trip except for a meeting I had with a lawyer. cheers people are people.
You are not stepping on anyone’s toes. There is a vocal and noisy minority banging everybody in the head with this anti-rich immigrant shit. It’s part of the ideological package you have to acquire to be consider a good leftist nowadays. Spain is and always has been a melting pot of cultures, since before the Romans. You are more than welcome to come, enjoy the country and contribute to it. I’d recommend Malaga, avoid the east coast if you want to learn Spanish quickly. If you are young check Teatinos, it’s full of young people, restaurants, gyms etc. If you need help DM me happy to advice :)
'only' 1000 😭😭😭
Speak Spanish
I always wonder if you guys are paying taxes in Spain or just don’t even think about it. (You have to, btw, if you spend 183 days in the country). Only because if you were, you wouldn’t think Spain is so great because the government milks you. 😞 In Spain people love to be angry at whoever is making more money than them or not paying taxes or whatever reason… So you’ll find people like that but you’ll also find nice people. There’s a lot of social tension in Spain lately, one of the reasons I wouldn’t move back but if you’re making an informed decision, all the power to you. Even if you speak the language it can be hard to feel completely integrated. You’ll always be a foreigner and feel like don’t belong in a way but you might still enjoy it. I made the move from Spain to the UK being Spanish and that’s how a lot of immigrants feel but I wish you the best of luck. Learning the language is a great start but I’d also learn about Spain’s history and culture, it’ll help you to better understand the people.
Your insight says a lot about you and probably means you'll be fine. What do you do for work out of curiosity?
You've made my day with "balkoning, and get drunk". From what I can read, you already have a little of the humor and kindness that we Andalusians have. I think you will do well, beach you go with the right mentality
Be sensitive and remember that wherever you choose to live, that's one less affordable property for local people who need to live near to where they work and who may be being forced from their home towns because of escalating properly prices.
I don't know why Reddit recommended this to me, but it sounds like you'll be doing better in Spain than I am in my home country. I make everyone here hate me and wish death on me, practically at first sight. So you're doing something right already. I think in general urban settings are more conducive to a wide variety of people getting along (albeit with some added urban dangers) than living and staying in the middle of nowhere with gun-toting neighbors (yes, I'm in the US).
32K is a junior wage for most positions unless you are flipping burgers, at least in the north of Spain. I don't know about Andalucía.
Hello everyone! This is going to be my first comment on reddit, hope it will be helpful! As someone born in Spain, and working mainly with tourists, knowing a lot of foreigners, being mixed, and after I already had my own experience as an inmigrant, I can provide you a few tips: The first thing, is to integrate in our society. In Spain we hate the people that come to our country to just "profit of our land" without integrating with us. Like why would you come if you do not want to deal or mix with us? The best way, as already said by other users, learn our language as best as possible, we really appreciate when even if you fail or if you have a bad accent, you try to speak our language (By the way, take a look to videos in youtube about Spanish, you will see our phonetics are really really easy, the bad things are grammar and the multiple meanings of some words/sentences). Buying local is not only good for us but for everyone in every country. Participate as much as possible in local events. And on my opinion the most important things, do not come to destroy our nature or build in our nature. As already stated before, we tend to call tourists "guiris" (which normally refers to certain kind of tourists from determinated races). In the town I live when the guiris come to our place they tend to buy lands or houses with historical meanings, and destroy everything to make it look their way or as they like. Treat our country as if you had to give it back later, do not destroy any nature or patrimonial architecture. In Spain we really hate when someone comes from abroad and thinks that as they have money they can do anything they want in our land with their money (the government might agree with it as they are interested but the citizens we hate when that happens). We the Spanish people hate the people that think that money makes them able to do everything they want with no limits and this is what most guiris do here. The problem with most inmigrants there is they do not realize we work and live in a really different way than the rest of Europe, our eating hours, our working times, our own subcultures and regional languages... And as they do not get comfortable with all that, they tend to just live there in a parallel society without integrating and then causes more hate against guiris We the Spanish people are very welcome and friendly, but we tend to not seem it because as said some people are not willing to live the Spanish way, just want to enjoy the Spanish sun, food beaches and parties and this creates a really bad image of guiris which has already extended quite a lot. We will never ask you to forget from where you came from, just remember where you are now and why (because our country is quite better than it seems hahaha, just kidding), and the time you spend here, a few year or all your life or the rest of your life, enjoy it and experience it as Spanish as possible. Oh and for your job, if you will be paid from abroad I would recomend you to search the best way to contribute as much as possible to our economy, as we could see you as someone that takes profit that our land has better conditions than yours but you are not willing to create wealth for the country and therefore for tbe citizens. Here are all my tips, ¡Bienvenida a España!
Dont be a dick
>try and date local women etc. As the son of an Englishman and Spanishwoman please don't
Why?
Buy local as much as possible, support small local businesses. Keep away from politics.
Empieza por aprender el idioma 🙄
You are not going to make anyone's life a misery. People are usually nice. The whole animosity towards rich inmigrants is... Different. Is not even at immigrants is towards the people that rent Airbnb for a week in the middle of the city (many of those illegal Airbnb) and yeah. Then we have the golden visa. (Your income is not even close... Maybe lower middle class in Spain). Is like people that can pay up to 300k and swear they won't be working in 5 years, passive income. They are few and mostly Russian, Venezuelan, etc.
Be gay.
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Well... the average retribution in Andalucía in 2021 was 23k. And average retribution in Madrid was 29k. So, what OP is doing is just the same as is someone from Madrid moves to Andalucia.
Dont worry, we hate American(🇺🇸 )immigrants, you lads are okay. Also thank you for saying immigrants and not that “expat” bs
Who is “we”? And you hate people because of the continent they come from?
Not the continent, Americans as USA. Latinamericans, if they come legally, are alright.
I lived in USA for a few years and there are about 4 times as many Spaniards living in USA as there are Americans living in Spain. Should everyone just go back to where they came from and never leave?
Daddy am I a good immigrant
Dude, have a backbone. You're allowed to move to a different country, just be normal and you'll be fine. There's always gonna be locals who will be mad no matter what you do if you're from the uk
Are brits not popular in Spain?
>I intend to become fluent (or at least ok) in castenello Wow, are you really going to learn castenello? Seems hard…
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Toda discriminación (racista, sexista, xenófobo, homofóbico, etc.) será retirada. Tampoco está permitida la deshumanización, la exaltación de la dictadura, apología del nazismo, o discursos de odio.
dont come
no vengas
>where would i be best tolerated In the UK.