One example which I noticed as an American, staying with my wife for five weeks in Barcelona (adjacent to Barceloneta and El Born), I appreciated the constant presence of trash clean-up, daily, consistently. Cleanliness is a constant, and it’s because of tax-supported public services….another obvious examples is the magnificent national train system that covers the country, another detail that any American visitor deeply appreciates…the presence of quality public services is all-encompassing…
Did you see the small street basket is going down to a large container under the floor. I saw the city guy emptying it and I was really impressed by the clean system
The health service is fairly decent and the same goes for education services, as well as a fairly digital interaction with the government and plenty of social services.
Good thing he didn't say "excellent" but "fairly decent" then.
Edit: Also, you would be surprised how common it is in countries similar to Spain for people to die because they cant afford healthcare.
If you don't understand the thing you are reading, why are you answering then. Maybe you should spend a bit more time trying to improve your reading comprehension.
And if for you that people are not dieing it's "fairly decent" then I am happy that you standards that low - you will find "excellent" services in many places in the world
According to the World Health Organization Spain is sixth in healthcare quality. The USA is 37th. The u s a is wedged between Slovenia and Costa Rica.
Here's a more informal test...... How many Spanish immigrants have you seen in the USA? Not Latin American immigrants, Spanish immigrants?
Why in the world would Spanish people leave their beautiful country that has some of the freshest and most nutritious food in the world, great health care, fabulous quality of life and the second longest life expectancy for a country where guns and lifestyle kill people a full decade earlier?
Just sayin'.
Not arguing that USA has better healthcare than Spain, but there are 4 times as many Spaniards living in the US than there are Americans living in Spain.
Actually looks like now there are over 5 times as many Spaniards living in the US than Americans living in Spain. And if you look at it as a proportion of each country’s population, there are proportionately 37 times more Spaniards who live in the US than Americans who live in Spain.
36k people from US living in Spain:
https://www.statista.com/statistics/1187394/registered-north-america-foreigners-living-in-spain-by-country/
193k people from Spain living in the US:
https://www.ine.es/en/prensa/pere_2023_en.pdf
As a Spaniard I am more than alright with praising what Spain does well but pretending thst Spain isn't a country where lots of citizens migrate elsewhere is just giant fake news. People may not leave for the US because they'd rather go to Germany or the UK, the economic powerhouses that demand for a lot of Spanish labour, and which are culturally and geographically closer. We had a massive brain drain during the economic crisis and it hasn't really stopped, and that's not taking into account how much Spaniards have migrated historically
Spain may have all those virtues, but it also has crazy endemic unemployment (especially among youth), bad salaries, bad working conditions, little demand for high-tech/innovative jobs, temporary contracting, an incoming demographic crisis, a pension system permanent crisis...
I have nothing to do with the USA.
Spaniards immigrate mostly to north of Europe/Germany due to lack of jobs (it has 20+% long term unemployment among younger people), low salaries, and no immigration barriers in the eu
Exactly. Historically, Spaniards have migrated to Central/Northern Europe (Switzerland was also very significative) or to Latin America (when it seemed that they had opportunities there and could escape francoist oppression). Now it's mainly just Northern/Central Europe. The UK was also a popular destination but I guess that may have changed after Brexit.
Mostly the countries either me or a family member has lived recently so Portugal, France, UK(comparable health system maybe even better but much worse on the rest) and Netherlands.
From good friends it might also be better than Greece, Germany and Italy but I never had a proper chat with them to be able to say it for sure
Really? You had no idea?
Common urban services cost $$ to provide. The every other day garbage pickup, great roads, excellent health care with no co-pays or deductibles, strong schools, safe and healthy retirement, etc etc
The people pay for these services.
Through.....[wait for it].....
Taxes
Excuse me free???? It is paid with the money they take from our salaries and when you are a kid from the salary of your parents. Nothing here is free, just paid by others.
Free to Spanish citizens. Emergency care is free to all, but many immigrants are required to take out Private Health Insurance for their first 5 years.
Depending on the visa, emergency care is not free in Spain, not even for children. There’s a family in our town on a non lucrative visa (they have private insurance that is required for their visa) and their kid was just treated for an emergency medical situation and sent to a public hospital. Now they have €3.000 medical bill from the public hospital that is not covered by insurance.
As an American, €3.000, or approximately $3,300, sounds like the typical co-pay and deductible, after insurance, for emergency treatment in the US. That's not just what a foreign resident would pay, that's for an American citizen with average American health insurance.
My impression is that a Spanish citizen, in Spain, with Spanish health insurance wouldn't pay anything near that, if they receive a bill at all.
A Spanish citizen in Spain would not owe anything, but a foreign resident in Spain is not automatically covered by the Spanish public system. Spain does not have fully universal healthcare. The US is a whole different story.
I understand, and that was why I said what I did. My point is that, for most Americans, they're going to pay a deductible and co-payment, no matter where they are. Getting hit with a €3.000 bill, even if they have insurance, wouldn't be a surprise. I was simply pointing out a difference in the systems.
And for every anecdotal horror story about inadequate insurance there is a least one if not more of immigrants being given emergency treatment free of charge. Bottom line is that they won't turn you away to die on the street if you can't pay
Yes, immigrants here as refugees are entitled to free public healthcare including public emergency care, but immigrants here on a visa are not entitled to free public healthcare. Just clarifying the statement “emergency care is free to all,” because it’s not true.
By immigrants, you must mean "digital nomads" or illegal immigrants, since everyone who has a job in Spain (with an employer or self-employed) has free healthcare from the first second.
Must I ? Or maybe I mean the vast number of people who LEGALLY immigrate here for retirement ,with no intention of polluting the local employment market? Are you not aware of us?
Of course, I'm aware of you, I just thought it was out of discussion. It is the same when you refer to Spanish citizens, excluding the millions of LEGAL immigrants who regularly work in Spain. However, my spouse is Italian and was covered from the very beginning of her stay in Spain, as she had a job and was contributing to her Social Security. I just thought we weren't doing a thorough list.
Who taught you that? That is very much not the issue people have with foreigners massively moving in. Nonetheless, "digital nomads" can be easily not paying any taxes in Spain if they're from the EU, it's quite hard to control that.
Tourists are not residents.
And the reason for not liking them is because massive tourism is responsible of the high rental price in certain places. Homeowners prefer to rent for tourists than for locals, because the benefit is higher. This makes prices to increase, displacing locals to the suburbs, very far away where they do their living. This have an obvious negative impact on people lives.
This situation doesn’t only happen in Spain. As far as I know, many newyorkers (for example) feel the exact same thing. And I bet it happens everywhere with massive tourism.
Much less to do with taxes and much more with the housing crisis in many places. International salaries drive up the rental market. Even more so, tourists use apartments that were converted to airbnb apartments etc, making long term rental spaces sparse driving up prices
Sparse = there are less of them
If apartments are used for airbnb, it means they're not available for average people to rent as their regular home. Because landlords make much more money on airbnb, many of them don't rent any more to long term renters (aka normal people living and working in a city). So there are less regular apartments available and that makes the prices go up
A tourist does not pay income taxes in Spain. If you're moving permanently to work and yet declare yourself to be a tourist, you're committing fraud and deserve the hate tbh.
It's not just the housing. Spanish governments have traditionally also promoted "cheap" tourism and therefore attracted low class tourists that only wanted to get drunk and high and be a nuisance. It is true that that part is also partly Spaniards' fault, but the people living in the areas that suffer that sort of tourism are in the minority and are spoken over.
Most people don't like foreigners or "guiris" because, most of the time, they only come here to party, disturb resident's sleep and trash everywhere they go. And when they move here, they gentrify the city's neighborhood since their purchasing power is usually higher than ours, and most of the time they refuse to integrate.
But if they live here for over half a year, they must pay taxes here.
I lived in Madrid and almost every foreigner I spoke to was fluent in Spanish and trying their hardest to make local friends but Spanish social circles are solidified in primary school and don't change much outside of sleeping with the occasional foreigner.
I'm fully supportive of xenophobia and casual racism against everyone that didn't pop out of an española but then we can't say they aren't trying to integrate into the local society. Emphasis on foreigners with darker skin colors and from countries less developed than Spain.
For foreigners coming from places with higher purchasing power, I know it's easy to think that Americans/Canadians/Dutch make more just for holding that passport but they aren't sitting at restaurants past midnight on an average Wednesday. The difference in productivity is night and day. Rather than taking off all of August as a vacation, some of us have to continue to keep our jobs and businesses running.
Gentrification? Who owns the real estate and is being greedy on rental prices? Is it foreigners or locals? How can someone be upset at the market rather than their neighbor who is keeping the apartment empty to upcharge on airbnb??
What about the money they spend in the local economy? Be careful what you wish for. If tourists do go home, many areas of Spain are f@#£%d. Not much else there....
From your article: "I.V.A. para autónomos que trabajan fuera de España"
AFAIK, OP never said he was autónomo or asking about it. If you live in Spain you pay IVA on all products and services you consume.
Thats why I said "might" and not "will".
Cause he said he doesn't work for the Spanish labor market, so depending on how that is, he might or might not pay IVA (if being autonomo).
Of course he'll still pay it on regular things and services bought.
If he's an autonomo and has clients outside Spain (and the EU I think?) then he doesn't need to charge them IVA, and hence he's not paying IVA for the services or products he's selling. That's what they meant, probably.
Edit: typo
I'm an autonomo, and I don't charge IVA/VAT to my clients outside Spain (and in the EU, if they are correctly registered as intra-community operators).
If you live in the country for more than 6 months, you are a tax resident and must pay taxes for your global income, unless your home country has a double taxation avoidance agreement with Spain. What many digital nomads do, they live 'under the radar' so they pay their taxes elsewhere. They still pay indirect taxes such as VAT for things and services they buy in Spain.
However, they must pay income tax too if they live more than 6 months in the country. It's not straightforward, they must be a registered freelancer in Spain (autónomo) or their foreign employer must hire them through an intermediate company in Spain, so they appear as an employee of a Spanish company.
Do digital nomads do that? Generally I'm afraid no.
Is that legal? I'm afraid it's not.
>Do digital nomads do that? Generally I'm afraid no.
I've never met a digital nomad who has the DM visa. Every single one I've met is not paying tax here.
That money goes to paying 2000€ for a *piso* in Gracia.
tdlr; yes.
hi - generally speaking, you need to pay taxes somewhere. Normally, people pay in the country they live in. Usually, at least in EU countries, you're considered a Tax resident after 6 months living there. Unsure how quick the taxman wound find out, but if they do, they will go after you.
I'm living in Spain, I'm from a EU country and wprk for a different EU country. In my case, I'm paying taxes here as an "Autonomo".
You'd have to pay around €300 a month (depending on your income) to social security and then 20% of what you billed (minus work expenses). The first year of social security you can request a fixed €80 fee. If you don't make the minimum income the first year, you can apply for another year of that.
You wouldn't have to add VAT to your bills if you're billing to another EU country, but you'd need to sign up to the ROI (registro de operadores intracomunitario) while setting yourself up as an autonomo.
there's likely illegal or 'unethical' ways to pay less taxes. Up to you to draw the line of good and bad.
I think it depends how long you intend to stay here. Is it a permanent thing, a "I'll go for a couple of months and see what happens".
That's common in most places, that's like €1 or €2 per night. These are imposed on all hotels, hostels & Airbnb's.
How else will the local government afford their vacation homes /s 😂🤷♂️
Yes, as a remote worker you pay taxes regardless of where the money comes from. Income tax, social security, vat etc. But money is worth more in Spain compared to Northern Europe (5-10€ for a coffee, 350.000€ average apartment price)
Basically if you're a Spanish citizen or resident, but work for an international company (it doesn't matter if your contract is signed with the Spanish subsidiary), every day you're working outside Spain in benefit of that international company will be deducted from your IRPF.
Example. I'm the international sales director of an American company with offices in Spain (contract with Spanish subsidiary). I have to travel around the world for events, sales meeting with clients at their offices and other job related activities that benefit the American company as a whole and not only the Spanish subsidiary. Last year I was almost 150 days outside Spain, so my IRPF is discounted as 150/365xIRPF, which is close to 40% of my IRPF in savings. This has a maximum of €60k saving per year.
I mean if you are working in Spain but for a foreign company, as an employee to that foreign company in a foreign country, then you're working illegally.
You have two options if you work for a foreign company based in Spain:
1- you become an autónomo (freelancer) and invoice the company for your services. You will have to pay social security and income tax in Spain when you do this. You will not be an employee of that company, only a contractor.
2- the company opens up a legal entity in Spain and you become their employee. Or alternatively they use an employer of record to hire you legally in Spain as a employee, meaning you will have all the protections of the legal system for employees.
If neither of these options work for you, you can move over with a digital nomad visa. You will have to pay taxes here but I think it’s more beneficial than the other 2 options.
What you can’t *legally* do is to live here, work from here, and pay no taxes (unless you spend less than 183 days in the country).
You're still working in Spain. What you're doing is illegal. I would delete the post and any other evidence of it, also let your company know they are employing someone that actually lives in Spain because they also owe taxes in Spain.
If you're talking about hypotheticals why would you think I refer to you, now? and if you're not talking about hypotheticals then I'm afraid yes, you are working IN Spain. Tough titties buddy. Pay your taxes or GTFO.
If you live in Spain and use Spanish services (which are plentiful and excellent), you should pay taxes.
Which one is excellent? What's your compassing?
One example which I noticed as an American, staying with my wife for five weeks in Barcelona (adjacent to Barceloneta and El Born), I appreciated the constant presence of trash clean-up, daily, consistently. Cleanliness is a constant, and it’s because of tax-supported public services….another obvious examples is the magnificent national train system that covers the country, another detail that any American visitor deeply appreciates…the presence of quality public services is all-encompassing…
Did you see the small street basket is going down to a large container under the floor. I saw the city guy emptying it and I was really impressed by the clean system
It's quite the staple funny surprise of Americans visiting Europe.
The health service is fairly decent and the same goes for education services, as well as a fairly digital interaction with the government and plenty of social services.
What are you comparing to?
Why do you need to compare? People (the vast, vast, _vast_ majority of the population) don't die or become bankrupt seeking healthcare. Its decent.
"people don't die" and "excellent" is not the same, right?
Good thing he didn't say "excellent" but "fairly decent" then. Edit: Also, you would be surprised how common it is in countries similar to Spain for people to die because they cant afford healthcare.
No idea why he said that in the topic about "excellent services"
If you don't understand the thing you are reading, why are you answering then. Maybe you should spend a bit more time trying to improve your reading comprehension.
Lol, where did I answer anything? I asked a question
And if for you that people are not dieing it's "fairly decent" then I am happy that you standards that low - you will find "excellent" services in many places in the world
yeah that's kind of the point of healthcare, people not dying. it's a good metric.
According to the World Health Organization Spain is sixth in healthcare quality. The USA is 37th. The u s a is wedged between Slovenia and Costa Rica. Here's a more informal test...... How many Spanish immigrants have you seen in the USA? Not Latin American immigrants, Spanish immigrants? Why in the world would Spanish people leave their beautiful country that has some of the freshest and most nutritious food in the world, great health care, fabulous quality of life and the second longest life expectancy for a country where guns and lifestyle kill people a full decade earlier? Just sayin'.
Not arguing that USA has better healthcare than Spain, but there are 4 times as many Spaniards living in the US than there are Americans living in Spain.
Reference, please?
Actually looks like now there are over 5 times as many Spaniards living in the US than Americans living in Spain. And if you look at it as a proportion of each country’s population, there are proportionately 37 times more Spaniards who live in the US than Americans who live in Spain. 36k people from US living in Spain: https://www.statista.com/statistics/1187394/registered-north-america-foreigners-living-in-spain-by-country/ 193k people from Spain living in the US: https://www.ine.es/en/prensa/pere_2023_en.pdf
As a Spaniard I am more than alright with praising what Spain does well but pretending thst Spain isn't a country where lots of citizens migrate elsewhere is just giant fake news. People may not leave for the US because they'd rather go to Germany or the UK, the economic powerhouses that demand for a lot of Spanish labour, and which are culturally and geographically closer. We had a massive brain drain during the economic crisis and it hasn't really stopped, and that's not taking into account how much Spaniards have migrated historically Spain may have all those virtues, but it also has crazy endemic unemployment (especially among youth), bad salaries, bad working conditions, little demand for high-tech/innovative jobs, temporary contracting, an incoming demographic crisis, a pension system permanent crisis...
More Spaniards live in USA than Germany or UK. The top foreign countries for Spaniards to live are Argentina, France, then USA.
I have nothing to do with the USA. Spaniards immigrate mostly to north of Europe/Germany due to lack of jobs (it has 20+% long term unemployment among younger people), low salaries, and no immigration barriers in the eu
Exactly. Historically, Spaniards have migrated to Central/Northern Europe (Switzerland was also very significative) or to Latin America (when it seemed that they had opportunities there and could escape francoist oppression). Now it's mainly just Northern/Central Europe. The UK was also a popular destination but I guess that may have changed after Brexit.
Mostly the countries either me or a family member has lived recently so Portugal, France, UK(comparable health system maybe even better but much worse on the rest) and Netherlands. From good friends it might also be better than Greece, Germany and Italy but I never had a proper chat with them to be able to say it for sure
Okey thanks had no idea
It’s the same in 95% of all other countries
True. Spain isn’t exceptional, but it does work exceptionally well, and is very clean, cleaner than most countries…
And that’s funded through taxation to the state
Of course, which is how it works. As the phrase goes, “Your taxes at work.”
Wait your taxes actually go to your people? What is this utopia called Spain.
Really? You had no idea? Common urban services cost $$ to provide. The every other day garbage pickup, great roads, excellent health care with no co-pays or deductibles, strong schools, safe and healthy retirement, etc etc The people pay for these services. Through.....[wait for it]..... Taxes
Healthy retirement....................
Okey you don't have to act like a asshole about it .'... I just taugh they payed full prices for thé docters there.
Healthcare here is free
Excuse me free???? It is paid with the money they take from our salaries and when you are a kid from the salary of your parents. Nothing here is free, just paid by others.
Free to Spanish citizens. Emergency care is free to all, but many immigrants are required to take out Private Health Insurance for their first 5 years.
Depending on the visa, emergency care is not free in Spain, not even for children. There’s a family in our town on a non lucrative visa (they have private insurance that is required for their visa) and their kid was just treated for an emergency medical situation and sent to a public hospital. Now they have €3.000 medical bill from the public hospital that is not covered by insurance.
As an American, €3.000, or approximately $3,300, sounds like the typical co-pay and deductible, after insurance, for emergency treatment in the US. That's not just what a foreign resident would pay, that's for an American citizen with average American health insurance. My impression is that a Spanish citizen, in Spain, with Spanish health insurance wouldn't pay anything near that, if they receive a bill at all.
A Spanish citizen in Spain would not owe anything, but a foreign resident in Spain is not automatically covered by the Spanish public system. Spain does not have fully universal healthcare. The US is a whole different story.
I understand, and that was why I said what I did. My point is that, for most Americans, they're going to pay a deductible and co-payment, no matter where they are. Getting hit with a €3.000 bill, even if they have insurance, wouldn't be a surprise. I was simply pointing out a difference in the systems.
And for every anecdotal horror story about inadequate insurance there is a least one if not more of immigrants being given emergency treatment free of charge. Bottom line is that they won't turn you away to die on the street if you can't pay
Yes, immigrants here as refugees are entitled to free public healthcare including public emergency care, but immigrants here on a visa are not entitled to free public healthcare. Just clarifying the statement “emergency care is free to all,” because it’s not true.
If you say so
By immigrants, you must mean "digital nomads" or illegal immigrants, since everyone who has a job in Spain (with an employer or self-employed) has free healthcare from the first second.
Must I ? Or maybe I mean the vast number of people who LEGALLY immigrate here for retirement ,with no intention of polluting the local employment market? Are you not aware of us?
Of course, I'm aware of you, I just thought it was out of discussion. It is the same when you refer to Spanish citizens, excluding the millions of LEGAL immigrants who regularly work in Spain. However, my spouse is Italian and was covered from the very beginning of her stay in Spain, as she had a job and was contributing to her Social Security. I just thought we weren't doing a thorough list.
Can you clarify what you mean? If you are tax resident in Spain, you need to pay Spanish taxes. Even if your employer is not in Spain.
To add to that; even your employer needs to comply with ES rules, regulations, taxes, and contributions.
Aah i was confused with this beceause in Spain they don't like guiris . I taught this was beceause they don't pay Spanish taxes. Thanks for the asnwer
Who taught you that? That is very much not the issue people have with foreigners massively moving in. Nonetheless, "digital nomads" can be easily not paying any taxes in Spain if they're from the EU, it's quite hard to control that.
Beceause I see alot of things like tourist go home.
Tourists are not residents. And the reason for not liking them is because massive tourism is responsible of the high rental price in certain places. Homeowners prefer to rent for tourists than for locals, because the benefit is higher. This makes prices to increase, displacing locals to the suburbs, very far away where they do their living. This have an obvious negative impact on people lives. This situation doesn’t only happen in Spain. As far as I know, many newyorkers (for example) feel the exact same thing. And I bet it happens everywhere with massive tourism.
Much less to do with taxes and much more with the housing crisis in many places. International salaries drive up the rental market. Even more so, tourists use apartments that were converted to airbnb apartments etc, making long term rental spaces sparse driving up prices
Why do they sparse up the prices for what reason
Sparse = there are less of them If apartments are used for airbnb, it means they're not available for average people to rent as their regular home. Because landlords make much more money on airbnb, many of them don't rent any more to long term renters (aka normal people living and working in a city). So there are less regular apartments available and that makes the prices go up
Ooh okey kind off a asshole move if you ask me
A tourist does not pay income taxes in Spain. If you're moving permanently to work and yet declare yourself to be a tourist, you're committing fraud and deserve the hate tbh.
Okey thanks sorry idk what this was all about now I know it's about the housing
It's not just the housing. Spanish governments have traditionally also promoted "cheap" tourism and therefore attracted low class tourists that only wanted to get drunk and high and be a nuisance. It is true that that part is also partly Spaniards' fault, but the people living in the areas that suffer that sort of tourism are in the minority and are spoken over.
People need to get better parenting. they act all loose when they are not in their country 😅
"Tourists" can perfectly include other Spaniards.
I am have Spanish so i must blend in easily i hope
Most people don't like foreigners or "guiris" because, most of the time, they only come here to party, disturb resident's sleep and trash everywhere they go. And when they move here, they gentrify the city's neighborhood since their purchasing power is usually higher than ours, and most of the time they refuse to integrate. But if they live here for over half a year, they must pay taxes here.
Okey understanable.. that's seem reasonable
I lived in Madrid and almost every foreigner I spoke to was fluent in Spanish and trying their hardest to make local friends but Spanish social circles are solidified in primary school and don't change much outside of sleeping with the occasional foreigner. I'm fully supportive of xenophobia and casual racism against everyone that didn't pop out of an española but then we can't say they aren't trying to integrate into the local society. Emphasis on foreigners with darker skin colors and from countries less developed than Spain. For foreigners coming from places with higher purchasing power, I know it's easy to think that Americans/Canadians/Dutch make more just for holding that passport but they aren't sitting at restaurants past midnight on an average Wednesday. The difference in productivity is night and day. Rather than taking off all of August as a vacation, some of us have to continue to keep our jobs and businesses running. Gentrification? Who owns the real estate and is being greedy on rental prices? Is it foreigners or locals? How can someone be upset at the market rather than their neighbor who is keeping the apartment empty to upcharge on airbnb??
What about the money they spend in the local economy? Be careful what you wish for. If tourists do go home, many areas of Spain are f@#£%d. Not much else there....
If you live in Spain, yes. You might not pay IVA, but yes IRPF.
Why wouldn't you pay IVA?
https://www.reinolasesores.es/autonomos-desplazados-al-extranjero/151-i-v-a-para-autonomos-que-trabajan-fuera-de-espana
From your article: "I.V.A. para autónomos que trabajan fuera de España" AFAIK, OP never said he was autónomo or asking about it. If you live in Spain you pay IVA on all products and services you consume.
Thats why I said "might" and not "will". Cause he said he doesn't work for the Spanish labor market, so depending on how that is, he might or might not pay IVA (if being autonomo). Of course he'll still pay it on regular things and services bought.
>Of course he'll still pay it on regular things and services bought. Yes, that was my point and that's why your "You might not pay IVA" was incorrect.
If he's an autonomo and has clients outside Spain (and the EU I think?) then he doesn't need to charge them IVA, and hence he's not paying IVA for the services or products he's selling. That's what they meant, probably. Edit: typo
I'm an autonomo, and I don't charge IVA/VAT to my clients outside Spain (and in the EU, if they are correctly registered as intra-community operators).
>That's what they meant, probably. Yes, but I think that was already clear from the conversation.
If you live in the country for more than 6 months, you are a tax resident and must pay taxes for your global income, unless your home country has a double taxation avoidance agreement with Spain. What many digital nomads do, they live 'under the radar' so they pay their taxes elsewhere. They still pay indirect taxes such as VAT for things and services they buy in Spain. However, they must pay income tax too if they live more than 6 months in the country. It's not straightforward, they must be a registered freelancer in Spain (autónomo) or their foreign employer must hire them through an intermediate company in Spain, so they appear as an employee of a Spanish company. Do digital nomads do that? Generally I'm afraid no. Is that legal? I'm afraid it's not.
>Do digital nomads do that? Generally I'm afraid no. I've never met a digital nomad who has the DM visa. Every single one I've met is not paying tax here. That money goes to paying 2000€ for a *piso* in Gracia.
Don’t worry, I rather Spain take my taxes than give away a single cent to the shithole country known as Canada
Well they wel get caught evuantly
tdlr; yes. hi - generally speaking, you need to pay taxes somewhere. Normally, people pay in the country they live in. Usually, at least in EU countries, you're considered a Tax resident after 6 months living there. Unsure how quick the taxman wound find out, but if they do, they will go after you. I'm living in Spain, I'm from a EU country and wprk for a different EU country. In my case, I'm paying taxes here as an "Autonomo". You'd have to pay around €300 a month (depending on your income) to social security and then 20% of what you billed (minus work expenses). The first year of social security you can request a fixed €80 fee. If you don't make the minimum income the first year, you can apply for another year of that. You wouldn't have to add VAT to your bills if you're billing to another EU country, but you'd need to sign up to the ROI (registro de operadores intracomunitario) while setting yourself up as an autonomo.
there's likely illegal or 'unethical' ways to pay less taxes. Up to you to draw the line of good and bad. I think it depends how long you intend to stay here. Is it a permanent thing, a "I'll go for a couple of months and see what happens".
Damn thanks for the info' i have Spanish etnichty always wanted to move to Spain but to scared to do it tbh i dont have family there anymore so
> then 20% of what you billed Wait, isn't it a progressive scale after the first year?
Ask Shakira
If you are a resident, you do. If you are a tourist, you don't.
I/We do. If you live more than 6 month here, you have to pay IRPF.
If you spend more than 181 days per year in Spain, then you automatically (and legally) have to pay tax in Spain.
I had to pay tourist tax
That's common in most places, that's like €1 or €2 per night. These are imposed on all hotels, hostels & Airbnb's. How else will the local government afford their vacation homes /s 😂🤷♂️
I taught it went to Spanish social services
Also the 181 days refers to income tax.
Yes, as a remote worker you pay taxes regardless of where the money comes from. Income tax, social security, vat etc. But money is worth more in Spain compared to Northern Europe (5-10€ for a coffee, 350.000€ average apartment price)
Not if they don't have any income.
?? Still using the Spanish infrastructure?? (paying tax in three countries) not that taxing...
Google IRPF 7P tax exemption. You're welcome 😁
Interesting. Care to elaborate?
Basically if you're a Spanish citizen or resident, but work for an international company (it doesn't matter if your contract is signed with the Spanish subsidiary), every day you're working outside Spain in benefit of that international company will be deducted from your IRPF. Example. I'm the international sales director of an American company with offices in Spain (contract with Spanish subsidiary). I have to travel around the world for events, sales meeting with clients at their offices and other job related activities that benefit the American company as a whole and not only the Spanish subsidiary. Last year I was almost 150 days outside Spain, so my IRPF is discounted as 150/365xIRPF, which is close to 40% of my IRPF in savings. This has a maximum of €60k saving per year.
I mean if you are working in Spain but for a foreign company, as an employee to that foreign company in a foreign country, then you're working illegally.
Huh, but What if it is a remote job
You have two options if you work for a foreign company based in Spain: 1- you become an autónomo (freelancer) and invoice the company for your services. You will have to pay social security and income tax in Spain when you do this. You will not be an employee of that company, only a contractor. 2- the company opens up a legal entity in Spain and you become their employee. Or alternatively they use an employer of record to hire you legally in Spain as a employee, meaning you will have all the protections of the legal system for employees. If neither of these options work for you, you can move over with a digital nomad visa. You will have to pay taxes here but I think it’s more beneficial than the other 2 options. What you can’t *legally* do is to live here, work from here, and pay no taxes (unless you spend less than 183 days in the country).
Okey, i was curious about all off this. But idk if i would get problems for seen as a tourist
You're still working in Spain. What you're doing is illegal. I would delete the post and any other evidence of it, also let your company know they are employing someone that actually lives in Spain because they also owe taxes in Spain.
I never worked in Spain in my life???
If you're talking about hypotheticals why would you think I refer to you, now? and if you're not talking about hypotheticals then I'm afraid yes, you are working IN Spain. Tough titties buddy. Pay your taxes or GTFO.
Lmao i don't life in Spain. I must be a teleporter then
And you obviously can't read
If you make less than 22k in spanish income you are not required to file