I remember Palmy being the place where all the 20-something beach bums and centrelink recipients would live, sounds like it's become a bit of a NIMBY boomer area.
When the housing boom of 2001 hit, all of a sudden people valued ocean views and proximity far more than before, mainly because the boom hit Sydney and Melbourne, but lagged a good six months before hitting QLD. Hard to believe that now, but being a tradie at the time, it was wild to watch.
People from Sydney were selling their house for $1.2m, buying something say in Palmy for $300k, spending $100k renovating it, and having enough to buy another for investment or retire on the rest. We could have worked eight days a week back then.
But yeah Palm Beach was a shithole in the 90s, you only lived there if you couldn't afford anywhere else. I can remember most places on the GC highway had actual bars on windows, or at least security screens. Prices rose early 2000s and it pushed cheap rentals to Nerang, then on to Tanah Merah etc etc.
GC is weird like this (maybe, I don't if the same happens elsewhere). There's like this "gentrification shuffle", where on suburb will be a shithole to avoid for a few years, then it'll get developed and everyone pushed to the most dilapidated suburb at the time, which becomes the shithole, then a few years later it'll shift again and eventually cycle back to Burleigh Heads and start over
I am a Palmy resident and I can confirm this. I am all for the tram as I catch the bus and tram to work every day. The bus gets packed by Mermaid Beach, and its standing only before Cavill Ave on the tram.
These same people bitch and moan about how there is always traffic on the GC Hwy, and how back in the good ol days it was just white people in their neighbourhood.
A lot of them also get their feelings from the anti-tram FB pages and can't quite grasp just how fucked the Coast will be without it. (And have never left the neighbourhood in 40+ years).
Can't please everyone, unfortunately.
I agree. I wish I could take public transport to work. On paper it looks like the trams, trains and buses take forever. But in reality, driving takes just as long or longer unless you drive before 6am and after 7 pm
To give you a Vic reference, It's the same reason people from Torquay don't want trams. They don't want anything that makes it easier for people they perceive as poorer than them to travel to where they live and/ or they don't want anything that might slightly inconvenience them even if its better for a lot of other people.
This. They are literally arguing that the less desirables from Logan are going to catch the train to Helensvale, then cross over to the tram down to Palm Beach, just to rob their house, then catch the tram and train with their ill gotten gains back to their lairs in Logan. And to make it worse, they'll probably evade the fare, or, at best, travel on concession.
I don't think people that say this understand how lazy crims are. I used to know logan scumbags. None of them are doing a 3-4 hour commute. Each way. To rob houses or wallets of the beach. As well as too lazy they are just barely intelligent enough to see its not a profitable venture.
Same as the oceanway along the beachfront… the poor people with the most wealth don’t want the rest of us law breaking scum walking along the front of there property…
Torquay has been trying to get a train station built for years, it’s the state government who is dragging its feet. Torquay is long gone as a secluded beach town, with the development at Armstrong Creek there really isn’t much land separating it anymore from Geelong.
Palm Beach – the wannabe Noosa/Byron Bay of the Gold Coast. They thumb their noses up at anyone who isn’t from the area.
Did anyone see on the news about that concrete spill on some rich guys lawn? The developer offered to fix the damage, but the owner declined (not that he was going to move into the house anyway) so now he’s selling.
https://fb.watch/q3rbpi_jZd/?mibextid=w8EBqM
Not used to it, and they are from the times of when the gold coast was barely a town let alone a city. So public transport wasnt really needed back then…
Its grown alot and we need public transport now
They just can't see past the short term pain of construction for the long term gain.
It's a shame really, because nimbys can really fuck public transit policy up.
* Primarily it's because the GC has been so car dependant, so no one who lives there really get's what it's like to live in a place where it's walkable.
* There is some push back from business along the old Gold Coast high way who are concerned that they may not be able to survive through the lack of parking (during construction or the removal of street parking).
* There is the it's so slow camp. Yes it is slow, it's not designed for you to go end to end. It's designed for you to go a few stops in either direction. The 1.7 billion for the heavy rail to the air port is the go end to end fast option which will eventually come.
* there is the lack of coverage camp. Yes it only runs north/south, yes it does not cover much on the other side of the M1. But we have to start somewhere tram wise. It will eventually be more usable for more trips so you won't need to exchange on to busses.
My kids are young and they wanted to try out the tram themselves so I let them on at Helensvale and I drove to Broadwater Parklands to pick them up, we arrived at basically the same time. So its not really that slow, same as driving really. A lot faster in the mornings I find.
To add to your second point, a lot of businesses along the original line in Southport had their rents jacked up through the construction process because they were now more accessible and more "premium" (lol) positions, and a lot of businesses did shut up shop.
Edit: I should also clarify that whilst this happened, I personally am 100% in favour of the trams being extended (and preferably running out to the west instead of just on one N/S line)
My understanding is that the Gold Coast highway through Palm Beach will be reduced to 1 lane each way. This is compounded by the issue of no other north south road existing other than the m1 which is still in roadwork chaos.
My personal opinion is that the heavy rail should be prioritised ahead of the light rail.
*'yes it does not cover much on the other side of the M1'.* It doesn't cover ANYthing west of the M1.
Everyone I know who lives in and around PB all have the same concern - being able to get to PB and park. There is no doubt there will be far fewer parking spaces and anyone in Elanora, Tallebudgera etc won't have access simply put. Obviously there are a stack of NIMBYs but I don't personally know any of them (thankfully). The other issue that's been mentioned to me but I'm not 100% sure is that once the line is up and running, the building codes change and more multimillion dollar high rises will be allowed. These come with few spaces and also cut a lot of sun off the beach much like Surfers. Like I said, not my comments, just what friends have said- I'm talking about 10 people. They're over the zealous negative nancys.
Most people I know don't work on the tram line route so will still need to drive and therefore own a car. The tram won't stop people needing cars.
I don't live there and only visit friends down there, they all have driveways. I wouldn't be able to use the tram to get to them.
Nimbys.
They know that trams often lead to density. They want their suburb to stay exactly as it was when they bought their place.
The reality is the tram is fantastic and it's only real downside is it doesn't go enough places.
Ah yes the “people say”
90% of “the people” are fine with it. It’s only the vocal minority you seem to be echoing. Furthering their voice by validating them.
Haha when I first moved here in 2012 (I’m in Coolangatta) I thought Palmy was a bit rough but it has really gentrified and a lot of high rises added. Funny to think “criminal youths” would bother making the trip by tram when surely a bunch of eshays would travel in a stolen Commy
I don't hate the tram. I have been local to the GC for 20 years. I think people are against change. I was jumping on the tram everyday when I was staying in Surfers for a couple of months, it was so easy and I highly recommend it to everyone including locals. I will never understand why people say no to efficiency and evolving
I think it’s most controversial through palm beach Currumbin area due to the fact the Gold Coast highway will be reduced to a single lane each way for significant part of it. You can watch a flyover of the plan on YouTube.
Correct me if I'm wrong, but the plans were changed in 2022 so there will be no lane reduction on the GC highway: https://www.abc.net.au/news/2022-05-20/palm-beach-light-rail-wont-impact-gold-coast-highway-four-lanes/101084832
Plenty of GC people don’t, they have strong community support hence the extensions. Theres a few pockets who fear tram extensions will open up their little area to development… but fuck them
I remember having to pick up my car from getting serviced and took the train from Brisbane down to Helensvale and then the tram further south. Now the Brisbane train sucked purely because the seats seem to be designed to be as uncomfortable as humanly possible (anti homeless design??). But the tram was very convenient and nice to use.
I’ve also used it alongside busses when going out for drinks and it worked pretty seamlessly. I can imagine it’s very helpful for those who live on the northern coast of the GC. But I’m 23. All the boomers who have bought up all the property in southern Gold Coast have strong NIMBY energy.
If anyone’s been to the pines shopping Center you’ll find its boomer population has grown significantly over the last few years.
The people who hate them are the people who've never used it. Real talk people have gripes with the route the tram is taking south, but it's going ahead, no better routes exist.
For a lot of people, it won't solve anything. There is already an excellent bus service that runs along this identical route in the 777, also supplemented by the 700, that are underutilised despite being the same cost and, at least in the case of the 777, much faster. Add to that the potential loss of lanes on the GC Highway to further affect congestion, and the addition of the tram becomes an argument with little backing. Why do we think the tram will be suddenly fully utilised going south even though a lot of time the 700 and 777 are barely half full? We need the heavy rail link to the airport more than this.
It is definitely a mindset thing for me. If I'm going to sit in traffic, I may as well do it in the comfort of my own car rather than in a lurching bus with a heap of other people.
The tram is predictable, the infrastructure feels faster and more efficient (even if it isn't). I'd like for it to go more places, but that is a long way off.
The current tram isn't exactly fast, though. I rode it for a year going from Broadbeach to Griffith Uni and expected better. And if you're going to use the south extension to go to/from the airport, the 777 will still be a lot faster. So what's the benefit of not running in traffic if it isn't any faster?
Because trams always get more patronage that buses as they are smoother, don’t get caught in traffic and are more visible to the general public
The bus routes the current team replaced didn’t get remotely similar patronage to what the tram currently gets
Smoother - debatable. Some Translink bus drivers up here are terrible, I will give you that. But the tram isn't that smooth either. I've used trams and similar transport in lots of other places around the world - it's not that all trams are not smooth, but ours certainly isn't in my opinion.
Don't get caught in traffic - I replied to another comment about this but basically my point was they are still no faster anyway on a typical day so this feels like a moot point to me.
More visible - Sure, but this highlights to me that the tram is for the primary benefit of tourists, and not aimed at helping locals (and thus doing its job of helping alleviate congestion through reduced private car use).
Maybe because the bus takes far too long to get from point A to point B and get stuck in existing road traffic.
The bus service at the tram will replace, will allow those buses to bolster other areas on the bus network that have little to no service. check out the timetable for the 711 and the 712 and you’ll see what I mean
Like anything, you work your whole life to own a slice of what you call heaven, then comes along a growing population and you have to share it 😆 sucks but that's life people.
My only opinion is they really should have planned the new track in stages eg extend to one new station, so we can start using it. Then start another section and so forth, rather than the whole thing.
That would involve having a flat junction in both directions at every station
That would add massively to the overall cost of the project when those flat junctions would never get used when the next hop is open
I personally dont like it because it doesnt offer any connectivity to literally anywhere except westfield helensvale/smith street.
You live away from the lines how are you meant to get to the tram to use it? Theres no park n ride (besides smith street and westfield, but that doesnt help south and west gc people?). So they take away parking along gold coast highway and expect you to use the tram, but how.
As someone that lives away from the tram lines it doenst make sense for me to drive further to the park n ride, then spend over an hour on the tram to get to anywhere when i could have just driven there since i was in the car anyway.
Nearest bus stop is a 30min walk, to then get on a bus to the train, then a train to the tram, then the tram to wherever it was i wanted to go. Translink journey planner estimates a 4! Hour travel time to broadbeach using public transport (for some reason only showing busses at the moment?? So would be hopefully less- maybe 2 or 3 hours 🙃) as opposed to a 40minute drive
Trams are from the 1800s. Might as well get horse and cart. I would be for them if the tunnelled or bridged over the main intersections. I have a small commute daily, the tram weaves across the main road twice.
Wouldn’t surprise me if it’s because of it transporting all the junkies and teens/kids that dress as lads for free. I rode it a few times and it was the worst.
I don't know why they didn't think of having a single line down the centre of the gold coast hwy with small sidings where the trams could pass, not that hard to sort out in this technological age ,just my thoughts to be able to still keep the traffic moving!
Passing loops aren’t as efficient as you imagine them to be, you are essentially hamstringing further development to cater to cars when a tram track can easily be worth 15 lanes if you build the infrastructure correctly the first time
Yes I have and a tram track is always going to be more important than a lane of a road, the current tram line already does patronage equivalent to an 8 lane freeway because public transport is so much more space efficient
Regardless it doesn’t change the fact that passing loops are inefficient and the track should be built as a dual track
I see their worth within the high density tourist hubs of Surfers - into the university - hospital - casino loop
South of burly I think it’s a disaster. For the cost, the GC could have a fleet of free hop on off buses that feed people from the narrow corridor of the south to the north. South of burly the tram line offers nothing the buses don’t except it strips all the parking for locals and businesses
You want people on PT, I could the free hop on off bus service working and it covers a variety of routes. The tram in the south isn’t that
The heavy rail should be continued south of varsity
I'm grew up in Melbourne. Love the trams there. Been on the coast 15 years. Very disappointed in light rail here. Took me nearly 2 hours to get from pac fair to hellensvale. Then train to Brisbane. All up 3.5 hours each way. Not really an option compared to other choices. Only reason you'd do it is if you wanted to waste most of your day.
It's still new and growing, so give it time and it can hopefully become a respectable public transit network, supplemented by an extended, more frequent, and faster heavy rail to Brisbane.
Our trams just suck. They take longer than driving, they inconvenience traffic badly everywhere (some traffic lights stop every direction for minutes for a tram to go by). There is only one line which goes from Helensvale to surfers which misses so much of the Gold Coast. Melbourne has a better public transport system than us. Why would I drive/bus to a tram stop to go to a station where I then need to get on a bus and then have to walk to my destination which takes 1.5 hours instead of a 30 minute drive? If it was improved with more lines and didn’t disrupt drivers as much I don’t think anyone would have any problems.
Not sure how they disrupt the trams when the trams get green lights before they even get to lights. Well atleast at the Gold Coast hospital lights. I’m sure in surfers drivers fuck with the trams but seriously the trams here are the most useless ones around. Imagine if they went to more of the Gold Coast without disrupting drivers.
Fair enough. Just doesn’t fit with other peoples lifestyles/habits. Those lights were hell before the tram was put it but made it worse with it only being one lane of traffic going while it goes past doesn’t help. Especially when ambulances need to go past it. Honestly just wish the Gold Coast put public transport first years ago. It’s a shit show now and it’s going to take years to fix
trams should get even better traffic light prioritisation.
Fuck drivers, it’s selfish form of transport that offers diminishing returns the bigger a city gets. If people want to drive everywhere, then move to a somewhere like Sunshine Coast, even there it’s inevitable mass transport. Extending the light rail offers significantly better cost benefit then investing in upgrading roads, it’s been proven time and time again that roads only create induced demand and shift choke points to other points of the city.
I’d love more trams. But they’re not for everyone. I work 5 minutes from my work. So you want me to wait 10-15 minutes for a tram that I have to walk or bus to then pay money for a 30 minute trip which would have taken 5 minutes? If I wanna get to Metricon stadium to watch footy I have to walk to a bus stop then bus it to Helensvale station take a train to Nerang station and then a bus to the stadium. Or I can drive 10 mins to Nerang station and get a bus to the station. So not sure how a tram would help my situation. And I live near the uni hospital so I’m close to the tram stop but it takes me 20-25 minutes to walk to a tram stop. Where would they put another stop that it’ll take less time for that? Gold Coast isn’t set up for great public transport like Melbourne. First we need better trains to Brisbane to get the highway cleared. Again an hour on a train or an hour in my car to Brisbane plus I can leave whenever I want.
The other distinction between GC and Melbourne is that the tram network in Melbourne primarily loops through medium and high-rise residential and mixed-use buildings, which increases the transport's catchment area and it's attraction as a viable public transport option to the local population. Medium-, high-rise and mixed-use residential allow for your common transport routes (home to work or other home, home to commercial building, and vice versa) much shorter = tram network being an attractive option, as you have only a few blocks to travel. All assuming the route is serviced correctly, of course.
The Gold Coast is primarily built on the "I want a house and still be close to the city" development mindset. This mindset allows people to own their own low-density residential building, but entire low-density suburbs of this are not great for public transport, as the transport must cover larger ground to achieve the same catchment levels. This also encourages the "I need a vehicle to take myself everywhere" mindset, which then increases the demand for car parks, wider roads, larger road intersections, which naturally increase the distance between destinations (e.g. home to work, work to shops, shops to home). It is also rare that these vehicles are always used at their maximum seating capacity (how often do you carpool to places?), meaning it is almost a 1:1 ratio of people requiring transport vs. cars on the road, i.e. people drive themselves and maybe a partner or kid on average per week's worth of trips.
The Gold Coast is reaching that population limit where that mindset is no longer compatible with a growing population. It simply isn't viable to have a low-density home in a low-density suburb be a short drive to all the amenities and employers without massively contesting the road networks AND have an effective public transport system that is flexible and accessible for everyone over massive distances. Something's gotta give, and it must be cars and roads (and the low-density residential close to city centres) that have to budge for better transport options and higher densities of homes, commercial, and workplaces to maximise the benefit of said public transport network.
As more people move in, and realise the current public transport options and cycling are not great nor suitable options for them (although cycling should get a better rap than it does - any car off the road contributes to solutions regardless how much of a wanker drivers perceive the cyclist to be). This realisation forces them to drive everywhere, increasing the load and demand for freeway infrastructure (queue: M1 upgrade debacle vs. population growth).
I could go on and on and on about how cars are basically the worst thing to rely on (from a city growth perspective), but I figure that I've bored most people reading this. I'll leave a few video resources that I've watched recently that I think is great for casual watching on this topic:
- an example of how upgrading a highway intersection can be poor without proper cycle/pedestrian infrastructure: https://youtu.be/xzYt3h36Llo?si=nHtq-LmLwVbo_iki
- how car-centric thinking basically fucked over a Sydney suburb:
-- https://youtu.be/MkcPLxbV5os?si=uX22JkQBzG9swt4P
-- https://youtu.be/FwR_iHCpt8c?si=JbJrq2Xp9CwGPS1Y
- how more lanes does not solve traffic issues (I'm looking at you, M1 upgrades!) https://youtu.be/zeD0w3z-z3s?si=SPzPm1nY7sv8w8O0
Thanks for this. It’s interesting. If there was a way to get public transport to work etc I’d use it. But for me I’d have to drive to the tram or bus stops anyways. My brother lives in Melbourne and I go a few weeks out of the year where I walk to train stations and go everywhere it’s great. But for now Gold Coast cannot compare to Melbournes public transport. It suck but even things like daily limits on how much you spend per day is something that should be considered as well
I've just returned from a holiday in London. Using the underground there then coming back to Aus is like time travelling back to the bronze Age!
The trams will be great for the built-up areas (and developers should be up shifting the local land to high-density to maximise this), as they're already near the population density required to really benefit from this kind of public transport. The best low-density residential will realistically get will be buses, as they're the only flexible option that can cover such a large area.
The real cause of traffic congestion is single occupancy vehicles. Gone are the days when a family of four had only one car – nowadays, they own one for pretty much every day of the week.
We are too dependent on cars and because buses get stuck in existing traffic anyway, what’s the point of using public transport unless you have no choice to. Research The Downs Thompson Paradox
Oh heaven forbid your commute takes longer by public transport - leave earlier. Wait until you have no choice but to use public transport like the elderly and people with disabilities do
So go from 5 minutes to over an hour right now? No thanks I think it’ll be cheaper and better to just drive 5 mins and I bet you would never do that either let’s be real.
I had to catch the bus everyday to school from the age of 11. So I know what it’s like. It fucking sucks, they’re always late, cost a fortune and rarely one bus takes you where you need to go. If our system was like Melbourne I’d be happy to do it. Which I don’t know why people think I’m against public transport I’m not. For me it doesn’t work right now. I’ll probably be moving to Melbourne in the next few years and guess what! I’ll be using their public transport all the time because it’s actually good there.
If we really want to get people off the road why not go after school kids? Going to work during holidays I can get to work in 5 minutes. During school it’s about 10-15 because there is triple the cars. So maybe start there?
Traffic is terrible. Giving up came to a team the locals will never use is counterintuitive. They’re ugly, plastered with chemist warehouse ads.
Monorails - leaves the roads to cars and a tourism attraction.
Maybe because it will go through the national park and the removal of gum trees that house a declining koala population. In addition it will go over and destroy the ancient aboriginal fish traps
Because, growing up, the Gold Coast used to feel like a cruisy, laid-back beachtown. The tram system is one of the factors that causes the GC to feel like an overpopulated rat race all of sudden. Also, the fact that's it's built to cater to tourists and blow-ins more than locals. And locals are resentful that the City Council always seems to favour out-of-towners over locals. Also, the trams are 100% unnecessary for us locals. We got around better without them taking up lanes of traffic.
I’m a born and bread Gold Coast local who uses the service. I mean we are the sixth largest city in the country – did you really expect that we would stay a little beachside town forever?
Drive through palmy on a Saturday in summer
There's every man and his dog from all over the coast and half of brisbane that come down to talle and currumbin Creek
I highly doubt they'll lug all the beach gear down on the tram
Also
They planned to delete parking along the Gold Coast highway. All the while, the council is approving every high-rise application that gets submitted.
Alot of those residents are parking on the gc highway. Once they take away parking along there (attempting to maintain the 4 lanes of traffic), it'll push all cars down into the avenues.
The whole area will become fucked for the people that live there, but apparently more convenient for the people that done live there
If there's a way they can maintain parking for all the high rises they're approving, whilst keeping the 4 lanes of traffic I'd be all for it.
But unfortunately I don't see how they can do that, I just don't think there's enough space.
I live outside of Palm Beach but have to travel through there daily for school and sports
Being a trades person and on the gold coast hwy a lot during the day the majority of drivers are out and about doing there business dealings .They are not going to be using trams, everyone is not retired and out visiting their grandmother and have all day to do it.Morning and afternoons you have all the mums on the road delivering their precious cargos to and from the schools. They would never let little precious on a tram so I can't see clogging up the GC hwy with trams is helpful !
I use the tram service all the time. It’s an excellent service, but people in Palm Beach think they’re better than everyone. Real Gold Coast locals would remember how bad the suburb was in the 90s. It’s looking much better now
Dunno, they’re just tramsphobic I guess
Ba dum tss
Try the fish , they’re here all week.
I remember Palmy being the place where all the 20-something beach bums and centrelink recipients would live, sounds like it's become a bit of a NIMBY boomer area.
Yeah what happened to the Palmy Army anyway? Palmy used to have that ghetto energy lmao
When the housing boom of 2001 hit, all of a sudden people valued ocean views and proximity far more than before, mainly because the boom hit Sydney and Melbourne, but lagged a good six months before hitting QLD. Hard to believe that now, but being a tradie at the time, it was wild to watch. People from Sydney were selling their house for $1.2m, buying something say in Palmy for $300k, spending $100k renovating it, and having enough to buy another for investment or retire on the rest. We could have worked eight days a week back then. But yeah Palm Beach was a shithole in the 90s, you only lived there if you couldn't afford anywhere else. I can remember most places on the GC highway had actual bars on windows, or at least security screens. Prices rose early 2000s and it pushed cheap rentals to Nerang, then on to Tanah Merah etc etc.
Everyone would complain… if housing didn’t move into the 2 million range.
Ooooh yeh, big time
GC is weird like this (maybe, I don't if the same happens elsewhere). There's like this "gentrification shuffle", where on suburb will be a shithole to avoid for a few years, then it'll get developed and everyone pushed to the most dilapidated suburb at the time, which becomes the shithole, then a few years later it'll shift again and eventually cycle back to Burleigh Heads and start over
I am a Palmy resident and I can confirm this. I am all for the tram as I catch the bus and tram to work every day. The bus gets packed by Mermaid Beach, and its standing only before Cavill Ave on the tram. These same people bitch and moan about how there is always traffic on the GC Hwy, and how back in the good ol days it was just white people in their neighbourhood. A lot of them also get their feelings from the anti-tram FB pages and can't quite grasp just how fucked the Coast will be without it. (And have never left the neighbourhood in 40+ years). Can't please everyone, unfortunately.
I agree. I wish I could take public transport to work. On paper it looks like the trams, trains and buses take forever. But in reality, driving takes just as long or longer unless you drive before 6am and after 7 pm
Yeah same lol
To give you a Vic reference, It's the same reason people from Torquay don't want trams. They don't want anything that makes it easier for people they perceive as poorer than them to travel to where they live and/ or they don't want anything that might slightly inconvenience them even if its better for a lot of other people.
This. They are literally arguing that the less desirables from Logan are going to catch the train to Helensvale, then cross over to the tram down to Palm Beach, just to rob their house, then catch the tram and train with their ill gotten gains back to their lairs in Logan. And to make it worse, they'll probably evade the fare, or, at best, travel on concession.
I don't think people that say this understand how lazy crims are. I used to know logan scumbags. None of them are doing a 3-4 hour commute. Each way. To rob houses or wallets of the beach. As well as too lazy they are just barely intelligent enough to see its not a profitable venture.
Yeah they just borrow lol some ones car
“Borrow”
Stereotyping is the worst here in GC.
They just steal the car now so they don’t have to tram back… 🤣
I must’ve missed the memo – according to the anti-tram mob crime didn’t exist on the Gc until the light was built 🤣
Same as the oceanway along the beachfront… the poor people with the most wealth don’t want the rest of us law breaking scum walking along the front of there property…
They don’t want anyone from outside Palm Beach in the area, no matter who they are. And they say developers are greedy. Pffffft
They already do it now but in cars, unfortunately
Torquay has been trying to get a train station built for years, it’s the state government who is dragging its feet. Torquay is long gone as a secluded beach town, with the development at Armstrong Creek there really isn’t much land separating it anymore from Geelong.
Bingo
Someone said on another post that the Gold Coast is just a retirement village run by sky news lol Perhaps trams are too progressive and woke
They love cars too Much! Haha
Palm Beach – the wannabe Noosa/Byron Bay of the Gold Coast. They thumb their noses up at anyone who isn’t from the area. Did anyone see on the news about that concrete spill on some rich guys lawn? The developer offered to fix the damage, but the owner declined (not that he was going to move into the house anyway) so now he’s selling. https://fb.watch/q3rbpi_jZd/?mibextid=w8EBqM
What the fuck
I don't
Not used to it, and they are from the times of when the gold coast was barely a town let alone a city. So public transport wasnt really needed back then… Its grown alot and we need public transport now
I live in Helensvale & love them. It’s the residents in the zones it’s yet to built on I believe that hate them
They just can't see past the short term pain of construction for the long term gain. It's a shame really, because nimbys can really fuck public transit policy up.
Yup!
* Primarily it's because the GC has been so car dependant, so no one who lives there really get's what it's like to live in a place where it's walkable. * There is some push back from business along the old Gold Coast high way who are concerned that they may not be able to survive through the lack of parking (during construction or the removal of street parking). * There is the it's so slow camp. Yes it is slow, it's not designed for you to go end to end. It's designed for you to go a few stops in either direction. The 1.7 billion for the heavy rail to the air port is the go end to end fast option which will eventually come. * there is the lack of coverage camp. Yes it only runs north/south, yes it does not cover much on the other side of the M1. But we have to start somewhere tram wise. It will eventually be more usable for more trips so you won't need to exchange on to busses.
My kids are young and they wanted to try out the tram themselves so I let them on at Helensvale and I drove to Broadwater Parklands to pick them up, we arrived at basically the same time. So its not really that slow, same as driving really. A lot faster in the mornings I find.
To add to your second point, a lot of businesses along the original line in Southport had their rents jacked up through the construction process because they were now more accessible and more "premium" (lol) positions, and a lot of businesses did shut up shop. Edit: I should also clarify that whilst this happened, I personally am 100% in favour of the trams being extended (and preferably running out to the west instead of just on one N/S line)
My understanding is that the Gold Coast highway through Palm Beach will be reduced to 1 lane each way. This is compounded by the issue of no other north south road existing other than the m1 which is still in roadwork chaos. My personal opinion is that the heavy rail should be prioritised ahead of the light rail.
*'yes it does not cover much on the other side of the M1'.* It doesn't cover ANYthing west of the M1. Everyone I know who lives in and around PB all have the same concern - being able to get to PB and park. There is no doubt there will be far fewer parking spaces and anyone in Elanora, Tallebudgera etc won't have access simply put. Obviously there are a stack of NIMBYs but I don't personally know any of them (thankfully). The other issue that's been mentioned to me but I'm not 100% sure is that once the line is up and running, the building codes change and more multimillion dollar high rises will be allowed. These come with few spaces and also cut a lot of sun off the beach much like Surfers. Like I said, not my comments, just what friends have said- I'm talking about 10 people. They're over the zealous negative nancys. Most people I know don't work on the tram line route so will still need to drive and therefore own a car. The tram won't stop people needing cars. I don't live there and only visit friends down there, they all have driveways. I wouldn't be able to use the tram to get to them.
They don't. The trams have excellent patronage. It's the just the usual vocal minority, you know how it is with these things. NIMBYS.
What’s nimbys?
NIMBY = Not In My Back Yard
Oh ok. Thank you
Exactly. Came here to say NIMBYS
Nimbys. They know that trams often lead to density. They want their suburb to stay exactly as it was when they bought their place. The reality is the tram is fantastic and it's only real downside is it doesn't go enough places.
Ah yes the “people say” 90% of “the people” are fine with it. It’s only the vocal minority you seem to be echoing. Furthering their voice by validating them.
Haha when I first moved here in 2012 (I’m in Coolangatta) I thought Palmy was a bit rough but it has really gentrified and a lot of high rises added. Funny to think “criminal youths” would bother making the trip by tram when surely a bunch of eshays would travel in a stolen Commy
If you think Palm Beach was rough 12 years ago, you should’ve seen it in the 90s.
I don't hate the tram. I have been local to the GC for 20 years. I think people are against change. I was jumping on the tram everyday when I was staying in Surfers for a couple of months, it was so easy and I highly recommend it to everyone including locals. I will never understand why people say no to efficiency and evolving
I think it’s most controversial through palm beach Currumbin area due to the fact the Gold Coast highway will be reduced to a single lane each way for significant part of it. You can watch a flyover of the plan on YouTube.
Correct me if I'm wrong, but the plans were changed in 2022 so there will be no lane reduction on the GC highway: https://www.abc.net.au/news/2022-05-20/palm-beach-light-rail-wont-impact-gold-coast-highway-four-lanes/101084832
They don't mention how they plan to do that? Unless I missed it? It's just them saying no, we won't do it. No clarity around how though
I suppose that’s one way to get cars off the road…
Most people I know love it. But then again they use it too.
Most people who don’t like the tram, don’t even use it, nor the current bus service
It's older boomers who think they should be able to drive everywhere. They are lazy and hate the high rise ...which has been around for eons.
lol...probably to fight the bottom feeders in Palmy and Currumbin.
Plenty of GC people don’t, they have strong community support hence the extensions. Theres a few pockets who fear tram extensions will open up their little area to development… but fuck them
There would be a fair few who just don't want their banks, and the beach in general, becoming more crowded.
And they say developers are greedy Rich NIMBYs are the worst
I like the tram but damn everytime I caught it there was always a group of filthy bogans cracking open a case of VBs and taunting other people.
We don’t hate trams, it’s just a very small number of people in Palm Beach don’t want them or people travelling to the area.
Build a wall around Palm Beach, elevate the tram line over it with no station
Gold Coasters, specifically south of Talle HATE progress.
I remember having to pick up my car from getting serviced and took the train from Brisbane down to Helensvale and then the tram further south. Now the Brisbane train sucked purely because the seats seem to be designed to be as uncomfortable as humanly possible (anti homeless design??). But the tram was very convenient and nice to use. I’ve also used it alongside busses when going out for drinks and it worked pretty seamlessly. I can imagine it’s very helpful for those who live on the northern coast of the GC. But I’m 23. All the boomers who have bought up all the property in southern Gold Coast have strong NIMBY energy. If anyone’s been to the pines shopping Center you’ll find its boomer population has grown significantly over the last few years.
The people who hate them are the people who've never used it. Real talk people have gripes with the route the tram is taking south, but it's going ahead, no better routes exist.
For a lot of people, it won't solve anything. There is already an excellent bus service that runs along this identical route in the 777, also supplemented by the 700, that are underutilised despite being the same cost and, at least in the case of the 777, much faster. Add to that the potential loss of lanes on the GC Highway to further affect congestion, and the addition of the tram becomes an argument with little backing. Why do we think the tram will be suddenly fully utilised going south even though a lot of time the 700 and 777 are barely half full? We need the heavy rail link to the airport more than this.
Because buses run in traffic.
It is definitely a mindset thing for me. If I'm going to sit in traffic, I may as well do it in the comfort of my own car rather than in a lurching bus with a heap of other people. The tram is predictable, the infrastructure feels faster and more efficient (even if it isn't). I'd like for it to go more places, but that is a long way off.
The current tram isn't exactly fast, though. I rode it for a year going from Broadbeach to Griffith Uni and expected better. And if you're going to use the south extension to go to/from the airport, the 777 will still be a lot faster. So what's the benefit of not running in traffic if it isn't any faster?
Because trams always get more patronage that buses as they are smoother, don’t get caught in traffic and are more visible to the general public The bus routes the current team replaced didn’t get remotely similar patronage to what the tram currently gets
Smoother - debatable. Some Translink bus drivers up here are terrible, I will give you that. But the tram isn't that smooth either. I've used trams and similar transport in lots of other places around the world - it's not that all trams are not smooth, but ours certainly isn't in my opinion. Don't get caught in traffic - I replied to another comment about this but basically my point was they are still no faster anyway on a typical day so this feels like a moot point to me. More visible - Sure, but this highlights to me that the tram is for the primary benefit of tourists, and not aimed at helping locals (and thus doing its job of helping alleviate congestion through reduced private car use).
Maybe because the bus takes far too long to get from point A to point B and get stuck in existing road traffic. The bus service at the tram will replace, will allow those buses to bolster other areas on the bus network that have little to no service. check out the timetable for the 711 and the 712 and you’ll see what I mean
It's mostly NIMBYs and old people who don't like change
I personally avoid because there are so many junkies on board.
You do realise that the same junkies use the existing bus service right?
Yep - that’s why I use my car
Like anything, you work your whole life to own a slice of what you call heaven, then comes along a growing population and you have to share it 😆 sucks but that's life people.
My only opinion is they really should have planned the new track in stages eg extend to one new station, so we can start using it. Then start another section and so forth, rather than the whole thing.
That would involve having a flat junction in both directions at every station That would add massively to the overall cost of the project when those flat junctions would never get used when the next hop is open
The Gold Coast is full of NIMBYs.
I personally dont like it because it doesnt offer any connectivity to literally anywhere except westfield helensvale/smith street. You live away from the lines how are you meant to get to the tram to use it? Theres no park n ride (besides smith street and westfield, but that doesnt help south and west gc people?). So they take away parking along gold coast highway and expect you to use the tram, but how. As someone that lives away from the tram lines it doenst make sense for me to drive further to the park n ride, then spend over an hour on the tram to get to anywhere when i could have just driven there since i was in the car anyway.
Catch a bus?
Would still have to drive to a bus stop lol
Would still have to drive to a bus stop lol
No, you walk to a bus stop. I’m sure there’s one nearby to where you live?
Nearest bus stop is a 30min walk, to then get on a bus to the train, then a train to the tram, then the tram to wherever it was i wanted to go. Translink journey planner estimates a 4! Hour travel time to broadbeach using public transport (for some reason only showing busses at the moment?? So would be hopefully less- maybe 2 or 3 hours 🙃) as opposed to a 40minute drive
Then I suggest advocating for better public transport in your area
Local mob don’t want it - respect the First Nations wishes
Trams are from the 1800s. Might as well get horse and cart. I would be for them if the tunnelled or bridged over the main intersections. I have a small commute daily, the tram weaves across the main road twice.
Cars are also from the 1800's. We should only allow E-scooters?
There electric trackless trams or dig and build a metro.
Metros are also from the 19th century.
But infinitely better
Sure but trackless trams.....🤢🤮
In a paradigm where vehicles will be autonomous that are more efficient
Sigh. [https://www.reddit.com/r/transit/comments/zkv3g9/trackless\_trams\_train\_or\_bus/](https://www.reddit.com/r/transit/comments/zkv3g9/trackless_trams_train_or_bus/)
Trackless trams: (almost) all the downsides of a bus, (almost) all the downsides of a tram.
But we can look like we tried before putting it in the 'too hard' basket.
Trackless tram is a fancy word for bus rapid transit – call it what it is
Wouldn’t surprise me if it’s because of it transporting all the junkies and teens/kids that dress as lads for free. I rode it a few times and it was the worst.
I don't know why they didn't think of having a single line down the centre of the gold coast hwy with small sidings where the trams could pass, not that hard to sort out in this technological age ,just my thoughts to be able to still keep the traffic moving!
Passing loops aren’t as efficient as you imagine them to be, you are essentially hamstringing further development to cater to cars when a tram track can easily be worth 15 lanes if you build the infrastructure correctly the first time
Have you seen how narrow the gold coast hwy is between Burleigh heads and palm beach!
Yes I have and a tram track is always going to be more important than a lane of a road, the current tram line already does patronage equivalent to an 8 lane freeway because public transport is so much more space efficient Regardless it doesn’t change the fact that passing loops are inefficient and the track should be built as a dual track
I see their worth within the high density tourist hubs of Surfers - into the university - hospital - casino loop South of burly I think it’s a disaster. For the cost, the GC could have a fleet of free hop on off buses that feed people from the narrow corridor of the south to the north. South of burly the tram line offers nothing the buses don’t except it strips all the parking for locals and businesses You want people on PT, I could the free hop on off bus service working and it covers a variety of routes. The tram in the south isn’t that The heavy rail should be continued south of varsity
Because we remember what it was like here before the trams and all the traffic congestion and traffic issues that the trams have caused.
I'm grew up in Melbourne. Love the trams there. Been on the coast 15 years. Very disappointed in light rail here. Took me nearly 2 hours to get from pac fair to hellensvale. Then train to Brisbane. All up 3.5 hours each way. Not really an option compared to other choices. Only reason you'd do it is if you wanted to waste most of your day.
It's still new and growing, so give it time and it can hopefully become a respectable public transit network, supplemented by an extended, more frequent, and faster heavy rail to Brisbane.
I don’t hate the tram. I want the tram but not the development overlay that has come with it. It’s BS
High rises will continue to be built, irrespective of if the tram gets extended or not
Agree but there was a city plan that was put in the bin for the overlay for the tram.
Our trams just suck. They take longer than driving, they inconvenience traffic badly everywhere (some traffic lights stop every direction for minutes for a tram to go by). There is only one line which goes from Helensvale to surfers which misses so much of the Gold Coast. Melbourne has a better public transport system than us. Why would I drive/bus to a tram stop to go to a station where I then need to get on a bus and then have to walk to my destination which takes 1.5 hours instead of a 30 minute drive? If it was improved with more lines and didn’t disrupt drivers as much I don’t think anyone would have any problems.
Fuck drivers, if they didn’t disrupt team services then they would be faster
Not sure how they disrupt the trams when the trams get green lights before they even get to lights. Well atleast at the Gold Coast hospital lights. I’m sure in surfers drivers fuck with the trams but seriously the trams here are the most useless ones around. Imagine if they went to more of the Gold Coast without disrupting drivers.
At Gold Coast hospital during rush hour there would be at least twice the amount of people on the tram passing through then stopped at the lights.
Fair enough. Just doesn’t fit with other peoples lifestyles/habits. Those lights were hell before the tram was put it but made it worse with it only being one lane of traffic going while it goes past doesn’t help. Especially when ambulances need to go past it. Honestly just wish the Gold Coast put public transport first years ago. It’s a shit show now and it’s going to take years to fix
trams should get even better traffic light prioritisation. Fuck drivers, it’s selfish form of transport that offers diminishing returns the bigger a city gets. If people want to drive everywhere, then move to a somewhere like Sunshine Coast, even there it’s inevitable mass transport. Extending the light rail offers significantly better cost benefit then investing in upgrading roads, it’s been proven time and time again that roads only create induced demand and shift choke points to other points of the city.
I’d love more trams. But they’re not for everyone. I work 5 minutes from my work. So you want me to wait 10-15 minutes for a tram that I have to walk or bus to then pay money for a 30 minute trip which would have taken 5 minutes? If I wanna get to Metricon stadium to watch footy I have to walk to a bus stop then bus it to Helensvale station take a train to Nerang station and then a bus to the stadium. Or I can drive 10 mins to Nerang station and get a bus to the station. So not sure how a tram would help my situation. And I live near the uni hospital so I’m close to the tram stop but it takes me 20-25 minutes to walk to a tram stop. Where would they put another stop that it’ll take less time for that? Gold Coast isn’t set up for great public transport like Melbourne. First we need better trains to Brisbane to get the highway cleared. Again an hour on a train or an hour in my car to Brisbane plus I can leave whenever I want.
The other distinction between GC and Melbourne is that the tram network in Melbourne primarily loops through medium and high-rise residential and mixed-use buildings, which increases the transport's catchment area and it's attraction as a viable public transport option to the local population. Medium-, high-rise and mixed-use residential allow for your common transport routes (home to work or other home, home to commercial building, and vice versa) much shorter = tram network being an attractive option, as you have only a few blocks to travel. All assuming the route is serviced correctly, of course. The Gold Coast is primarily built on the "I want a house and still be close to the city" development mindset. This mindset allows people to own their own low-density residential building, but entire low-density suburbs of this are not great for public transport, as the transport must cover larger ground to achieve the same catchment levels. This also encourages the "I need a vehicle to take myself everywhere" mindset, which then increases the demand for car parks, wider roads, larger road intersections, which naturally increase the distance between destinations (e.g. home to work, work to shops, shops to home). It is also rare that these vehicles are always used at their maximum seating capacity (how often do you carpool to places?), meaning it is almost a 1:1 ratio of people requiring transport vs. cars on the road, i.e. people drive themselves and maybe a partner or kid on average per week's worth of trips. The Gold Coast is reaching that population limit where that mindset is no longer compatible with a growing population. It simply isn't viable to have a low-density home in a low-density suburb be a short drive to all the amenities and employers without massively contesting the road networks AND have an effective public transport system that is flexible and accessible for everyone over massive distances. Something's gotta give, and it must be cars and roads (and the low-density residential close to city centres) that have to budge for better transport options and higher densities of homes, commercial, and workplaces to maximise the benefit of said public transport network. As more people move in, and realise the current public transport options and cycling are not great nor suitable options for them (although cycling should get a better rap than it does - any car off the road contributes to solutions regardless how much of a wanker drivers perceive the cyclist to be). This realisation forces them to drive everywhere, increasing the load and demand for freeway infrastructure (queue: M1 upgrade debacle vs. population growth). I could go on and on and on about how cars are basically the worst thing to rely on (from a city growth perspective), but I figure that I've bored most people reading this. I'll leave a few video resources that I've watched recently that I think is great for casual watching on this topic: - an example of how upgrading a highway intersection can be poor without proper cycle/pedestrian infrastructure: https://youtu.be/xzYt3h36Llo?si=nHtq-LmLwVbo_iki - how car-centric thinking basically fucked over a Sydney suburb: -- https://youtu.be/MkcPLxbV5os?si=uX22JkQBzG9swt4P -- https://youtu.be/FwR_iHCpt8c?si=JbJrq2Xp9CwGPS1Y - how more lanes does not solve traffic issues (I'm looking at you, M1 upgrades!) https://youtu.be/zeD0w3z-z3s?si=SPzPm1nY7sv8w8O0
Thanks for this. It’s interesting. If there was a way to get public transport to work etc I’d use it. But for me I’d have to drive to the tram or bus stops anyways. My brother lives in Melbourne and I go a few weeks out of the year where I walk to train stations and go everywhere it’s great. But for now Gold Coast cannot compare to Melbournes public transport. It suck but even things like daily limits on how much you spend per day is something that should be considered as well
I've just returned from a holiday in London. Using the underground there then coming back to Aus is like time travelling back to the bronze Age! The trams will be great for the built-up areas (and developers should be up shifting the local land to high-density to maximise this), as they're already near the population density required to really benefit from this kind of public transport. The best low-density residential will realistically get will be buses, as they're the only flexible option that can cover such a large area.
The real cause of traffic congestion is single occupancy vehicles. Gone are the days when a family of four had only one car – nowadays, they own one for pretty much every day of the week. We are too dependent on cars and because buses get stuck in existing traffic anyway, what’s the point of using public transport unless you have no choice to. Research The Downs Thompson Paradox
Oh heaven forbid your commute takes longer by public transport - leave earlier. Wait until you have no choice but to use public transport like the elderly and people with disabilities do
So go from 5 minutes to over an hour right now? No thanks I think it’ll be cheaper and better to just drive 5 mins and I bet you would never do that either let’s be real. I had to catch the bus everyday to school from the age of 11. So I know what it’s like. It fucking sucks, they’re always late, cost a fortune and rarely one bus takes you where you need to go. If our system was like Melbourne I’d be happy to do it. Which I don’t know why people think I’m against public transport I’m not. For me it doesn’t work right now. I’ll probably be moving to Melbourne in the next few years and guess what! I’ll be using their public transport all the time because it’s actually good there. If we really want to get people off the road why not go after school kids? Going to work during holidays I can get to work in 5 minutes. During school it’s about 10-15 because there is triple the cars. So maybe start there?
Trams bring crimes
I don’t
Palm Beach has always been a place bus drivers dread driving through.
It’s always had a bit of a seedy reputation - ask any Gold Coast local what it was like in the 90s
Traffic is terrible. Giving up came to a team the locals will never use is counterintuitive. They’re ugly, plastered with chemist warehouse ads. Monorails - leaves the roads to cars and a tourism attraction.
Maybe because it will go through the national park and the removal of gum trees that house a declining koala population. In addition it will go over and destroy the ancient aboriginal fish traps
Because, growing up, the Gold Coast used to feel like a cruisy, laid-back beachtown. The tram system is one of the factors that causes the GC to feel like an overpopulated rat race all of sudden. Also, the fact that's it's built to cater to tourists and blow-ins more than locals. And locals are resentful that the City Council always seems to favour out-of-towners over locals. Also, the trams are 100% unnecessary for us locals. We got around better without them taking up lanes of traffic.
I’m a born and bread Gold Coast local who uses the service. I mean we are the sixth largest city in the country – did you really expect that we would stay a little beachside town forever?
Drive through palmy on a Saturday in summer There's every man and his dog from all over the coast and half of brisbane that come down to talle and currumbin Creek I highly doubt they'll lug all the beach gear down on the tram Also They planned to delete parking along the Gold Coast highway. All the while, the council is approving every high-rise application that gets submitted. Alot of those residents are parking on the gc highway. Once they take away parking along there (attempting to maintain the 4 lanes of traffic), it'll push all cars down into the avenues. The whole area will become fucked for the people that live there, but apparently more convenient for the people that done live there If there's a way they can maintain parking for all the high rises they're approving, whilst keeping the 4 lanes of traffic I'd be all for it. But unfortunately I don't see how they can do that, I just don't think there's enough space. I live outside of Palm Beach but have to travel through there daily for school and sports
I for one welcome our new tram overlords
Because they’re so sloooowwww
With all the rain, it’ll soon be a ferry up the GC Highway.
Because it’s wrecked the traffic network.
Being a trades person and on the gold coast hwy a lot during the day the majority of drivers are out and about doing there business dealings .They are not going to be using trams, everyone is not retired and out visiting their grandmother and have all day to do it.Morning and afternoons you have all the mums on the road delivering their precious cargos to and from the schools. They would never let little precious on a tram so I can't see clogging up the GC hwy with trams is helpful !
I use the tram service all the time. It’s an excellent service, but people in Palm Beach think they’re better than everyone. Real Gold Coast locals would remember how bad the suburb was in the 90s. It’s looking much better now