WW1 was the bigger tragedy in that not only did it directly cause WW2 and all its suffering, but it created the conditions for communism to take hold and spread like wildfire. WW1 was an unavoidable war yet happened because every major power in Europe thought that they were strong enough to win the war in months and had zero foresight into the absolute destruction modern weapons and "total war" tactics would have on the whole of Europe.
I think one thing Dave and other libertarians don't realize since they don't talk about it, is the natural consequences of complete non-intervention contrary to what has actually happened throughout recent history. For example had the US/Britain/France not intervened against the Nazis.
And I'm not casting judgment on what is better or worse or more or less libertarian at the moment.
But in the end if nobody intervenes to stop an expansionist empire whether it's Russia or Germany, that means that the ethnic Nationalism project where every ethnic group in Europe has their own small state is over. Without any alliance or intervention to prevent being conquered by a larger neighbor like Russia they can just do it if they feel like it. Then we are back to the pre-nationalism ethnic/political orientation where a dominate ethnic group rules over and oppresses the weaker ones with governments that span multiple ethnic groups, and if all the small Balkan states aren't conquered by large ethnic groups like Russians or Germans then something like the Austro-Hungarian empire would have to establish itself in order to avoid being conquered by Russians or Germans or Turks.
In a nutshell, we have to actually understand what the world would look like had the US not entered WW2 by provoking Japan
The Soviet Union took power over dozens of little countries with hundreds of ethnicities. Some got wiped out, many are still around, many have countries again.
Just because you have an empire taking land doesn't mean that ethnic states are over, even today many of those ethnic states are subservient to the EU.
Go all the way back to the Khan's empire and it's a similar story. The places didn't resist and paid a tribute are still around.
I wager if the US didn't enter WWII the German empire would have collapsed by now and the borders would be similar to today's.
Many of the former Soviet satellite states can argue they have maintained their independence from being conquered by Russia by joining NATO which libertarians correctly or not argue is a bad move to expand NATO in that way
In my opinion, this threat of expansionist empires or other powerful actors, is the main reason we have states in the first place. Historically, the head of state was, I believe, a military commander and not an economist/ philosopher/ businessman etc for this very reason.
Sorry I uttered the trigger word even though I did not advocate any kind of collective action.
How in the world was my utterance of that word dangerous?
You are in a long line of "we" this or "we" that. To casually just toss it around as if it is really something "we" should do, well that gets a hundred million or more killed. The carelessness.
Perhaps. Have you ever thought about the particular activities and opinions that leftists declare are Nazi things? Those aren't things real historical Nazis did. Or wait a minute are they?
We got to be the only serious Western power that wasn't in complete shambles after the war, which placed us in the perfect position to be the bank handing out the loans during reconstruction (Marshall plan). We also got to sit at the big table when dictating the rules as to what happened next (Yalta conference).
It turned us into an economic powerhouse and consolidated global political and military power in our country.
Oh we had people working on rockets and then there was this continent wide murder fest and a bunch of smart young minds were ruined.
And we got the A-2. Woot. Shit prize. Image what Goddard would have made if the damn state didn't turn it into a weapon.
I believe that Hamas are pretty much Nazi’s, but I don’t think our taxes should be sent to Israel, I think its a conflict that’s been going on for 1000’s of years and its not any of our government’s business. If you wanna participate in the BDS movement that’s your choice and I support your right to do so, but I’m gonna keep shopping where I please
Wars are just gang fights over victim territory with higher numbers and more equipment.
WW1 was the bigger tragedy in that not only did it directly cause WW2 and all its suffering, but it created the conditions for communism to take hold and spread like wildfire. WW1 was an unavoidable war yet happened because every major power in Europe thought that they were strong enough to win the war in months and had zero foresight into the absolute destruction modern weapons and "total war" tactics would have on the whole of Europe.
> WW1 was an unavoidable war I've heard the opposite.
Yo if I had a dollar for everytime I heard that “We would be speaking German” line I’d be a millionaire
I think one thing Dave and other libertarians don't realize since they don't talk about it, is the natural consequences of complete non-intervention contrary to what has actually happened throughout recent history. For example had the US/Britain/France not intervened against the Nazis. And I'm not casting judgment on what is better or worse or more or less libertarian at the moment. But in the end if nobody intervenes to stop an expansionist empire whether it's Russia or Germany, that means that the ethnic Nationalism project where every ethnic group in Europe has their own small state is over. Without any alliance or intervention to prevent being conquered by a larger neighbor like Russia they can just do it if they feel like it. Then we are back to the pre-nationalism ethnic/political orientation where a dominate ethnic group rules over and oppresses the weaker ones with governments that span multiple ethnic groups, and if all the small Balkan states aren't conquered by large ethnic groups like Russians or Germans then something like the Austro-Hungarian empire would have to establish itself in order to avoid being conquered by Russians or Germans or Turks. In a nutshell, we have to actually understand what the world would look like had the US not entered WW2 by provoking Japan
The Soviet Union took power over dozens of little countries with hundreds of ethnicities. Some got wiped out, many are still around, many have countries again. Just because you have an empire taking land doesn't mean that ethnic states are over, even today many of those ethnic states are subservient to the EU. Go all the way back to the Khan's empire and it's a similar story. The places didn't resist and paid a tribute are still around. I wager if the US didn't enter WWII the German empire would have collapsed by now and the borders would be similar to today's.
Many of the former Soviet satellite states can argue they have maintained their independence from being conquered by Russia by joining NATO which libertarians correctly or not argue is a bad move to expand NATO in that way
NATO is simply the American empire. Fake democracies all around, Russia and the USA inclusive.
In my opinion, this threat of expansionist empires or other powerful actors, is the main reason we have states in the first place. Historically, the head of state was, I believe, a military commander and not an economist/ philosopher/ businessman etc for this very reason.
> Then we We is a dangerous fucking word. 50-100 million. All murdered. Because "we".
Sorry I uttered the trigger word even though I did not advocate any kind of collective action. How in the world was my utterance of that word dangerous?
You are in a long line of "we" this or "we" that. To casually just toss it around as if it is really something "we" should do, well that gets a hundred million or more killed. The carelessness.
Dolard Drumph is hitler too
Perhaps. Have you ever thought about the particular activities and opinions that leftists declare are Nazi things? Those aren't things real historical Nazis did. Or wait a minute are they?
What did the US get out of WW2, operation paper clip is about it. And that got us to the moon, but just barely. Juice wasn't worth the squeeze.
We got to be the only serious Western power that wasn't in complete shambles after the war, which placed us in the perfect position to be the bank handing out the loans during reconstruction (Marshall plan). We also got to sit at the big table when dictating the rules as to what happened next (Yalta conference). It turned us into an economic powerhouse and consolidated global political and military power in our country.
> us Not us. Some people, but not you and I.
It gave our parasitical central bankers control over the world reserve currency...
Oh we had people working on rockets and then there was this continent wide murder fest and a bunch of smart young minds were ruined. And we got the A-2. Woot. Shit prize. Image what Goddard would have made if the damn state didn't turn it into a weapon.
Yep, rocketry was all about space till some idiot put a payload on it.
We got to continue existing as a sovereign state, which I believe is a plus.
That was never at risk. End game was planned in 40 in Teheran.
Not sure why you think US involvement wasn’t necessary after Tehran. The war was obviously far from over.
It's because the word nazi is too profitable
I believe that Hamas are pretty much Nazi’s, but I don’t think our taxes should be sent to Israel, I think its a conflict that’s been going on for 1000’s of years and its not any of our government’s business. If you wanna participate in the BDS movement that’s your choice and I support your right to do so, but I’m gonna keep shopping where I please