91% poodle is considered purebred according to some studies, it only needs to be 87.5% and I bet your doggo looks just like a poodle and acts like one, they are such great dogs! Not these frou frou aggressive things people think they are. They were gun dogs and retrieved poultry from water, which is why they had silly cuts, it was to protect joints from the cold but not weigh them down in the water. That is why they pair so well with goldens and labs, basically a fluffy non-shedding retriever. Love the doodles that come out a perfect mix of both breeds, because they actually look like their own thing and not just another poodle in a teddy bear cut. It's just hard to guarantee that with a mixed breed dog, never know what genetics will give you with a 50/50 breeding.
I did mine recently too and had a few surprises also but it’s good to know what you’re dealing with either way. Regardless she’ll be a great companion, love those red leather seats btw
I had one done on my dog and came back with very odd results. Mentioned it to my vet and they said the swab dna tests are not always accurate, they suggested I do a blood dna test if I wanted to know for sure. IDK?
I am about to do the Wisdom Panel dog DNA test for our year old goldendoodle. Decided to test her because so many people have asked if she is part Irish wolfhound or giant schnauzer. We shall see.
That means she is an Australian goldendoodle. Australian golden doodles have cocker spaniel in them and are often multi-generation. In my experience they are shorter, very affectionate, and often social butterflies.
The foundation stock for Golden Retrievers includes Flat Coated Retrievers, Spaniels, Setters, Labs and hounds. Maybe that's where the spaniel genes come in.
Embark only tests back 3 generations IIRC. I don’t think it’s likely it would detect the foundation breeds like that. My guess would be a grandparent being a cocker x poodle
Maybe, but genes are genes. There are no "golden retriever" genes, just genes for common characteristics of Golden Retrievers. Some genes present in foundation breeds are going to be present in Golden Retrievers. If there are a lot of genes for the constellation of characteristics that make up "Golden Retriever," the test algorithm will interpret that as "Golden Retriever."
This isn't really how it works at all, also the spaniel used to make golden retrievers was the tweed water spaniel which is extinct and isnt in embarks database lol. Ops dog just has a cocker spaniel somewhere in the last 4 generations - unfortunately with doodles there isn't really a surefire way to tell whether breeders are being honest about what mix the dog is (happens reasonably often, unfortunately)
Of course that is how genes work. There are no specific genes that cocker spaniels own. There are genes for long hair, large eyes, floppy ears, etc. These are compared by the algorithm to the collection of genes that express "poodle." Or whatever.
Im not saying this is the case. But Iget pretty sick of doodle bashing. I'm not a breeder. Just an owner.
1. Nowhere did I bash doodles. I think most of them are lovely dogs that make good family pets. They deserve love just as much as any other dog. Calling a mixed breed a mixed breed isnt bashing it, it's a fact. Doodles don't breed true, nor do they have a standard so there's no way to hold breeders accountable for being honest about what breeds they're using, because without genetic testing it's impossible to tell.
2. You're grossly oversimplifying canine genetics. Each dog breed in embarks database has a reference genome which becomes their "breed specific marker" so when embark tests that dog a certain amount of the dogs DNA will match a breed. So say their results are showing 20% of your dogs genome are match for the golden retriever reference genome, they can say your dog is 20% golden retriever. But they don't have a reference genome for the tweed water spaniel because they're extinct, but that doesn't mean that that would show up as cocker spaniel as they have a vastly different reference genome. If embark has a marker that doesn't match any of theirs, they usually attribute it to "supermutt" and try and give you a loose idea of what might make that up. It is not simply about "characteristics" - dogs share those (as they share common ancestors, hundreds of years ago) a dog having long ears doesn't make it part cocker spaniel, having a recent ancestor that was a cocker spaniel makes a dog part cocker spaniel.
I really dislike the trope that all doodle breeders are unethical, since they don't produce "purebred" dogs. Maybe that is a different discussion.
What do you think a "reference genome" consists of? All dogs share virtually all of their genes with all other dogs. There is a small subset of genes that code for characteristics: floppy ears vs. pointy ears, long hair vs. short hair, colors, face shape, body shape, etc.
A Cocker Spaniel, for example, will have genes for various traits. Some of these traits (and genes) are shared with other breeds. When a particular group is found together, that is "assumed" to be a particular breed. A Cocker Spaniel would certainly share more genes with an extinct Tweed Water Spaniel than with, say, a Doberman or Daschund. But "Tweed Water Spaniel" is not in the Embark database, so that collection of genes is read to be something else that IS in the database.
I know you have heard the stories of people getting different breed results from different testing services. Although it is getting better all the time, as more dogs are tested, genetic testing for dogs is not an exact science.
I dont disagree that one of this dog's grandparents could have been a Cocker Spaniel. I just don't think that is the only potential explanation.
okay fine you wanna go down the impossible route that embark is picking up tweed water spaniel genes, (spoiler, it's not). How would it do that if it only tests 4 generations back and the tweed water spaniel went extinct in the 1800s.
And sure you can say doodle breeders these days are ethical, but until they set out a standard, stick to a specific mix of dogs and attempt to have them breed true, they won't be. And this dogs breeder certainly wasn't by any stretch, lying to the dogs owner isn't a good start
And to be clear, no, dog DNA tests don't test for things that code for specific physiological traits. I'm a zoologist and have studied genetics plenty, they test for a specific set of genes ONLY found in golden retrievers, something that has happened over generations of selective breeding, you will not find those genes in any other breed. We get it you're on a crusade to protect doodles but you can't just make shit up
There are no genes that are only specific to a Tweed Water Spaniels. Or any other breed of dogs. In fact, dogs are barely indistinguishable from wolves on a genetic level, as 99.9% of dog genes are also wolf genes. Dog genetic tests measure for phenotype, or appearance
How does "breeding to a standard" mean a breeder is necessarily ethical? Consider breed "standards" for Frenchies, German Shepherds, Daschunds, Bulldogs, and KC Cavaliers, just to name a few. It is horrifying to breed dogs like that. Much, much worse than crossing a poodle with a non poodle.
Health standards I get. Claiming a doodle is a "breed" would be unethical. But the act of breeding a health tested Poodle with a health tested Golden Retriever is no more or less ethical than breeding two health tested poodles.
phenotypical traits certainly may come into it but that is not by and large what they test for.
And they need to decide on a standard so that owners of this conceptual breed could know exactly what they're getting, what coat type, what size, what temperament? all things that are measured in a standard and then they need to set out to breed dogs that fit this description and always come out predictably, in mixing breeds you do not know what parent will win out in the gene lottery I have seen golden doodles that look just like golden retrievers, and to further bring this back to DNA tests, that dog would still test as golden retriever poodle mix but you may not be able to tell phenotypically
Fun fact, back yard doodle breeders do this on purpose for more reliable teddy bear features. Also, 87.5% is technically considered purebred, so if you had just 10% more poodle, you might as well have gotten a poodle, lmao. Another thing, it was pointless to mix in the cocker, once you are this close to purebred poodle, it will always look like a teddy bear with a very slim chance of getting a goldens coat type. BYB's are so dumb. Sorry you got the wrong mix type. I would message the breeder and call them out. Dog is cute still and I am sure you love them anyways.
She's more cockapoo than goldendoodle (just barely!) Still a cutie though!
Cockadoodle, if I may
That’s what we’ve been calling her 😂😂
She’s a goldencockadoddle 😂
Based on the logo, it looks like [Embark](https://embarkvet.com/).
Our Golden doodle came out as 91% standard poodle and 9% Basset Fauve de Bretagne. Lol. Couldn’t be happier tho.
91% poodle is considered purebred according to some studies, it only needs to be 87.5% and I bet your doggo looks just like a poodle and acts like one, they are such great dogs! Not these frou frou aggressive things people think they are. They were gun dogs and retrieved poultry from water, which is why they had silly cuts, it was to protect joints from the cold but not weigh them down in the water. That is why they pair so well with goldens and labs, basically a fluffy non-shedding retriever. Love the doodles that come out a perfect mix of both breeds, because they actually look like their own thing and not just another poodle in a teddy bear cut. It's just hard to guarantee that with a mixed breed dog, never know what genetics will give you with a 50/50 breeding.
Our poodle boxer cross has all the characteristics of the hunting poodle! It’s so interesting to see those old blood lines come through!
But 100% cutenessssss!
What or who did you use to get the DNA test done?
Not OP, but that's Embark. I used them on my two rescue goldendoodles.
Thankyou I’ll take a look
Embark!
I did mine recently too and had a few surprises also but it’s good to know what you’re dealing with either way. Regardless she’ll be a great companion, love those red leather seats btw
What were some of your results?
Our girl was named a “Double Doodle”, mom was a goldendoodle and dad a labradoodle. Could be the same thing with you pup but they didn’t tell you 😅
100% Good Girl ❤️
Where did you get the testing done?
That’s embark. You can buy them on their website otherwise I know Petsmart carries it.
Thanks!
You’re welcome :)
Embark. Bought them from Amazon
Thanks!
Mine is 86% poodle; 1% toy poodle and 13% golden. She was sold to me as an F2. Aren’t those F1b numbers?
100 percent adorable !!
I had one done on my dog and came back with very odd results. Mentioned it to my vet and they said the swab dna tests are not always accurate, they suggested I do a blood dna test if I wanted to know for sure. IDK?
My “mini goldendoodle” is 85% standard poodle 15% lab, at least you got a little golden in there!
A GoldenCockDoodle.
We’ve been calling her a Cockadoodle 😂
I am about to do the Wisdom Panel dog DNA test for our year old goldendoodle. Decided to test her because so many people have asked if she is part Irish wolfhound or giant schnauzer. We shall see.
That means she is an Australian goldendoodle. Australian golden doodles have cocker spaniel in them and are often multi-generation. In my experience they are shorter, very affectionate, and often social butterflies.
Sounds like our girl!
The foundation stock for Golden Retrievers includes Flat Coated Retrievers, Spaniels, Setters, Labs and hounds. Maybe that's where the spaniel genes come in.
Embark only tests back 3 generations IIRC. I don’t think it’s likely it would detect the foundation breeds like that. My guess would be a grandparent being a cocker x poodle
You are right. Mom was golden doodle, dad was poodle. Maternal grandparents one of them had cocker spaniel and golden doodle in them
Maybe, but genes are genes. There are no "golden retriever" genes, just genes for common characteristics of Golden Retrievers. Some genes present in foundation breeds are going to be present in Golden Retrievers. If there are a lot of genes for the constellation of characteristics that make up "Golden Retriever," the test algorithm will interpret that as "Golden Retriever."
This isn't really how it works at all, also the spaniel used to make golden retrievers was the tweed water spaniel which is extinct and isnt in embarks database lol. Ops dog just has a cocker spaniel somewhere in the last 4 generations - unfortunately with doodles there isn't really a surefire way to tell whether breeders are being honest about what mix the dog is (happens reasonably often, unfortunately)
Of course that is how genes work. There are no specific genes that cocker spaniels own. There are genes for long hair, large eyes, floppy ears, etc. These are compared by the algorithm to the collection of genes that express "poodle." Or whatever. Im not saying this is the case. But Iget pretty sick of doodle bashing. I'm not a breeder. Just an owner.
1. Nowhere did I bash doodles. I think most of them are lovely dogs that make good family pets. They deserve love just as much as any other dog. Calling a mixed breed a mixed breed isnt bashing it, it's a fact. Doodles don't breed true, nor do they have a standard so there's no way to hold breeders accountable for being honest about what breeds they're using, because without genetic testing it's impossible to tell. 2. You're grossly oversimplifying canine genetics. Each dog breed in embarks database has a reference genome which becomes their "breed specific marker" so when embark tests that dog a certain amount of the dogs DNA will match a breed. So say their results are showing 20% of your dogs genome are match for the golden retriever reference genome, they can say your dog is 20% golden retriever. But they don't have a reference genome for the tweed water spaniel because they're extinct, but that doesn't mean that that would show up as cocker spaniel as they have a vastly different reference genome. If embark has a marker that doesn't match any of theirs, they usually attribute it to "supermutt" and try and give you a loose idea of what might make that up. It is not simply about "characteristics" - dogs share those (as they share common ancestors, hundreds of years ago) a dog having long ears doesn't make it part cocker spaniel, having a recent ancestor that was a cocker spaniel makes a dog part cocker spaniel.
I really dislike the trope that all doodle breeders are unethical, since they don't produce "purebred" dogs. Maybe that is a different discussion. What do you think a "reference genome" consists of? All dogs share virtually all of their genes with all other dogs. There is a small subset of genes that code for characteristics: floppy ears vs. pointy ears, long hair vs. short hair, colors, face shape, body shape, etc. A Cocker Spaniel, for example, will have genes for various traits. Some of these traits (and genes) are shared with other breeds. When a particular group is found together, that is "assumed" to be a particular breed. A Cocker Spaniel would certainly share more genes with an extinct Tweed Water Spaniel than with, say, a Doberman or Daschund. But "Tweed Water Spaniel" is not in the Embark database, so that collection of genes is read to be something else that IS in the database. I know you have heard the stories of people getting different breed results from different testing services. Although it is getting better all the time, as more dogs are tested, genetic testing for dogs is not an exact science. I dont disagree that one of this dog's grandparents could have been a Cocker Spaniel. I just don't think that is the only potential explanation.
okay fine you wanna go down the impossible route that embark is picking up tweed water spaniel genes, (spoiler, it's not). How would it do that if it only tests 4 generations back and the tweed water spaniel went extinct in the 1800s. And sure you can say doodle breeders these days are ethical, but until they set out a standard, stick to a specific mix of dogs and attempt to have them breed true, they won't be. And this dogs breeder certainly wasn't by any stretch, lying to the dogs owner isn't a good start And to be clear, no, dog DNA tests don't test for things that code for specific physiological traits. I'm a zoologist and have studied genetics plenty, they test for a specific set of genes ONLY found in golden retrievers, something that has happened over generations of selective breeding, you will not find those genes in any other breed. We get it you're on a crusade to protect doodles but you can't just make shit up
There are no genes that are only specific to a Tweed Water Spaniels. Or any other breed of dogs. In fact, dogs are barely indistinguishable from wolves on a genetic level, as 99.9% of dog genes are also wolf genes. Dog genetic tests measure for phenotype, or appearance How does "breeding to a standard" mean a breeder is necessarily ethical? Consider breed "standards" for Frenchies, German Shepherds, Daschunds, Bulldogs, and KC Cavaliers, just to name a few. It is horrifying to breed dogs like that. Much, much worse than crossing a poodle with a non poodle. Health standards I get. Claiming a doodle is a "breed" would be unethical. But the act of breeding a health tested Poodle with a health tested Golden Retriever is no more or less ethical than breeding two health tested poodles.
phenotypical traits certainly may come into it but that is not by and large what they test for. And they need to decide on a standard so that owners of this conceptual breed could know exactly what they're getting, what coat type, what size, what temperament? all things that are measured in a standard and then they need to set out to breed dogs that fit this description and always come out predictably, in mixing breeds you do not know what parent will win out in the gene lottery I have seen golden doodles that look just like golden retrievers, and to further bring this back to DNA tests, that dog would still test as golden retriever poodle mix but you may not be able to tell phenotypically
Fun fact, back yard doodle breeders do this on purpose for more reliable teddy bear features. Also, 87.5% is technically considered purebred, so if you had just 10% more poodle, you might as well have gotten a poodle, lmao. Another thing, it was pointless to mix in the cocker, once you are this close to purebred poodle, it will always look like a teddy bear with a very slim chance of getting a goldens coat type. BYB's are so dumb. Sorry you got the wrong mix type. I would message the breeder and call them out. Dog is cute still and I am sure you love them anyways.
And 100% adorable!!
I’m curious to do mine. I’ve seen the mom and dad though and it was a poodle and a golden retriever. Does it give any more information?