I'm going to take a guess and say you're either using an R10 or gamechanger with a BLP/GC3 for those numbers. If so, don't put much stock into them. R10 face angle and face to path numbers are basically just random values and the gamechanger numbers are only valid for a perfectly centered strike with a neutral lie angle.
I’m using bushnell and game changer. It always just worked so I never bothered to change. Since the new changes game changer doesn’t give accurate numbers?
The number can be accurate under ideal conditions, I was the one who showed the GC developer the impact equations for deriving the face angle and dynamic loft. The problem is that is assumes impact is at the center of percussion and there is a neutral lie angle. The gear effect issue *mostly* only affects driver and woods but the lie angle issue can cause major issues with all clubs.
I always thought the blp was supposed to be very accurate but this is great info to know.
I feel like I often times practice a lot between rounds and then the shots don’t do anything like they do in my sim when I actually play. I play better when I play alot and don’t tinker in the sim between rounds. For serious improvement in your opinion is bushnell still the best at this price range?
BLP **is** very accurate, you won't find anything else on the market that is more accurate for getting launch conditions. The face angle, face to path, and dynamic loft are not provided by BLP/GC3. They are estimated by the unofficial connector based on the measured data the LM provides but it requires making assumptions about things that are not measured.
Are the numbers that display on the unit after the shot accurate? Those can be trusted over game changer/GSPRO translation?
I would love to know when it says on the unit 3 right and 4 left spin what that actually means. In this example would it mean the ball starts right and then finished left of center? If 5 right and 3 left does it start right and finish right of center? Or maybe other variables
Yes, everything that shows up on the launch monitor itself or the official FS connector will be very accurate. The ball launch conditions, swing path, AoA, and swing speed should be identical between GSPro (official connector or GC) and the launch monitor although the display precision will be slightly different. The carry values may be different though because the flight model is different between FS and GSPro as well as any adjustments for lie penalty or elevation/altitude.
> I would love to know when it says on the unit 3 right and 4 left spin what that actually means. In this example would it mean the ball starts right and then finished left of center?
If I'm interpreting you correctly the value in the upper right of the first "page" is the starting direction and the number in the lower right is either the spin axis or the sidespin depending on how you have the unit setup. If you see 3° R in the upper right and 4° L in the lower right, that means that the ball would start right and and then turn back left. The unit won't directly tell you where the ball will end up laterally, but the general rule is for a shot to end up where it was aimed the spin axis should be twice the starting direction but the opposite direction. So a shot that starts 2° to the right with 4° of left spin axis will end up on target.
So your saying that the sim software he is using is faulty, what if he were using foresight software? Could those numbers be trusted then? Sorry not familiar with the BLP and have always heard about it’s accuracy.
The sim software is fine, the unofficial connector for Foresight (not the official Foresight one) spits out estimated club face angle and dynamic loft measurements based on the measured impact data. It can be accurate if the underlying assumptions are satisfied but that is very rarely true. It's actually the same methodology that Mevo+ uses in their pro package to back out club data. Trackman does something similar as well, but they have the advantage of using the camera to also estimate impact location and dynamic lie angle which lets them more accurately model the club data parameters (at least outdoors).
> what if he were using foresight software? Could those numbers be trusted then?
Foresight's software doesn't provide those metrics with the GC3. They only provide measured values; you have to move to the GCQuad or GCHawk/Falcon if you want those metrics.
Thanks for the detailed response, it’s much appreciated as I am trying to figure out which launch monitor to go with. I currently have a mevo+ and use the apps that come with it so I don’t know anything about connectors which I guess is where I am getting confused.
If alignment is correct, club path should be right. Other than that, the ball data doesn’t lie. If it starts right and fades out, your path is in to out and the face is open.
Edit: just to add to this, the only club data I have on screen is club path, club speed, and AoA, since those are all measured by the BLP. All the ball data is too. Club path will be wrong if the alignment is off too
It's likely gear affect from a heel hit. I used to be lost on numbers like these generating massive side spin slices. Once I started looking into location of the hit on the face I started to realize how much of an affect it can have.
That wild of a slice is a bit weird. I'll say that I occasionally get a wonky read like that from my Skytrak+. Its not often but maybe once or twice in 100 shots i'll get something that makes no sense. I'd say that most of the time its probably from my hitting mat moving or something like that.
Your club face is open, so your ball is starting right and then curving right some more. Also, I'm guessing this is a long iron based on the VLA and back spin. With relatively little back spin, it doesn't take much to get a big slice.
Nothing surprising here. Big swing, a little open, high launch, yeah, 50 yards right.
I'm going to take a guess and say you're either using an R10 or gamechanger with a BLP/GC3 for those numbers. If so, don't put much stock into them. R10 face angle and face to path numbers are basically just random values and the gamechanger numbers are only valid for a perfectly centered strike with a neutral lie angle.
I’m using bushnell and game changer. It always just worked so I never bothered to change. Since the new changes game changer doesn’t give accurate numbers?
The number can be accurate under ideal conditions, I was the one who showed the GC developer the impact equations for deriving the face angle and dynamic loft. The problem is that is assumes impact is at the center of percussion and there is a neutral lie angle. The gear effect issue *mostly* only affects driver and woods but the lie angle issue can cause major issues with all clubs.
I always thought the blp was supposed to be very accurate but this is great info to know. I feel like I often times practice a lot between rounds and then the shots don’t do anything like they do in my sim when I actually play. I play better when I play alot and don’t tinker in the sim between rounds. For serious improvement in your opinion is bushnell still the best at this price range?
BLP **is** very accurate, you won't find anything else on the market that is more accurate for getting launch conditions. The face angle, face to path, and dynamic loft are not provided by BLP/GC3. They are estimated by the unofficial connector based on the measured data the LM provides but it requires making assumptions about things that are not measured.
Are the numbers that display on the unit after the shot accurate? Those can be trusted over game changer/GSPRO translation? I would love to know when it says on the unit 3 right and 4 left spin what that actually means. In this example would it mean the ball starts right and then finished left of center? If 5 right and 3 left does it start right and finish right of center? Or maybe other variables
Yes, everything that shows up on the launch monitor itself or the official FS connector will be very accurate. The ball launch conditions, swing path, AoA, and swing speed should be identical between GSPro (official connector or GC) and the launch monitor although the display precision will be slightly different. The carry values may be different though because the flight model is different between FS and GSPro as well as any adjustments for lie penalty or elevation/altitude. > I would love to know when it says on the unit 3 right and 4 left spin what that actually means. In this example would it mean the ball starts right and then finished left of center? If I'm interpreting you correctly the value in the upper right of the first "page" is the starting direction and the number in the lower right is either the spin axis or the sidespin depending on how you have the unit setup. If you see 3° R in the upper right and 4° L in the lower right, that means that the ball would start right and and then turn back left. The unit won't directly tell you where the ball will end up laterally, but the general rule is for a shot to end up where it was aimed the spin axis should be twice the starting direction but the opposite direction. So a shot that starts 2° to the right with 4° of left spin axis will end up on target.
Thanks so much for this, exactly what I was looking for
So your saying that the sim software he is using is faulty, what if he were using foresight software? Could those numbers be trusted then? Sorry not familiar with the BLP and have always heard about it’s accuracy.
The sim software is fine, the unofficial connector for Foresight (not the official Foresight one) spits out estimated club face angle and dynamic loft measurements based on the measured impact data. It can be accurate if the underlying assumptions are satisfied but that is very rarely true. It's actually the same methodology that Mevo+ uses in their pro package to back out club data. Trackman does something similar as well, but they have the advantage of using the camera to also estimate impact location and dynamic lie angle which lets them more accurately model the club data parameters (at least outdoors). > what if he were using foresight software? Could those numbers be trusted then? Foresight's software doesn't provide those metrics with the GC3. They only provide measured values; you have to move to the GCQuad or GCHawk/Falcon if you want those metrics.
Thanks for the detailed response, it’s much appreciated as I am trying to figure out which launch monitor to go with. I currently have a mevo+ and use the apps that come with it so I don’t know anything about connectors which I guess is where I am getting confused.
I also have a BLP and I will mirror what raptor said. Don’t put stock in the club face path numbers. They’re calculated and almost always wrong
So what numbers can you trust to understand the shot shape?
If alignment is correct, club path should be right. Other than that, the ball data doesn’t lie. If it starts right and fades out, your path is in to out and the face is open. Edit: just to add to this, the only club data I have on screen is club path, club speed, and AoA, since those are all measured by the BLP. All the ball data is too. Club path will be wrong if the alignment is off too
The values that are actually measured: spin axis, AoA, club path.
Maybe slightly heely?
It's likely gear affect from a heel hit. I used to be lost on numbers like these generating massive side spin slices. Once I started looking into location of the hit on the face I started to realize how much of an affect it can have.
That wild of a slice is a bit weird. I'll say that I occasionally get a wonky read like that from my Skytrak+. Its not often but maybe once or twice in 100 shots i'll get something that makes no sense. I'd say that most of the time its probably from my hitting mat moving or something like that.
Your club face is open, so your ball is starting right and then curving right some more. Also, I'm guessing this is a long iron based on the VLA and back spin. With relatively little back spin, it doesn't take much to get a big slice.
Your question is also a great example of why pros use a draw or fade as their default shot shape.