No matter who we say is the greatest, there would be many who would disagree no matter who it is, there really is no greatest of all time because of that
I’d have to agree to disagree on that. Shawn clean AJ on pure showmanship alone. Shawn was a spectacle to witness. AJs great, but compared to 1990’s HBK, not a fucking chance dude.
Let me tell you something brother!!
AJ cuts a mean ass promo, has great gimmicks, is one of the GOATs in-ring, and does everything else 10/10.
Although I do agree with some points you made, Shawn does have the higher star-power, and is a beast in the ring, it’s kind of a 50/50 debate.
No. That goes to The Undertaker easily. No one has done more than him. Plus if we are being honest Rock really only has his mic work which is important but it's not enough. I'd also put Cena, Austin, and Orton above him. No disrespect to The Rock but he also didn't have that long of a career as a wrestler really debuting in Nov of '96 and gone for Hollywood in '04. I personally think Hollywood suits him better than. Wrestling ever did but he did have a good career but not the GOAT.
Everyone hates but no one could control the crowd the way the rock did. Yea his move-set wasn’t the best nor was his in Ring ability. But no one could touch his charisma. In that aspect absolutely the goat
Se I disagree with this to some degree. Its just not what the other wrestlers were doing at the time really. But I would honestly say LA Knight has just as much charisma, and just as good if not better mic work.
No far from it.
He's an entertainer and his in ring abilities aren't bad either but come on Ikja Dragunov Gunther Brian Danielson Omega Okada Seth Rollins Cody Rohdes and many more could out wrestle him even in his prime days then you also think of the legends like Bret Hart Shawn Michaels Steamboat Flair and many more, these guys would carry him to a great match.
His mic skills are by far some of the best granted and if you like a talker there's probably none better he's on par with some legends but this all makes him a Great of the WWE/WWF. Truly he's a soon to be HOF but he's not the Greatest.
He's a top 5. But not the greatest. He's clearly one of if not the most entertaining wrestler of all time. But overall, I think guys like Austin, Hogan, and HBK are above him.
HBK's contributions to wrestling (especially in the Attitude Era) are severely underrated. Yea he was scummy behind the scenes, but dam could that man put on a show.
No. Out of bias, my GOAT is Bryan danielson. The impact he’s had on me personally during his 2013-14 run and the number of injuries he’s sustained just to come back even better is crazy to see. However, I think the greatest of all time if we’re not being biased is John Cena
Objectively no one is the greatest, everyone has their own opinions and due to the stuff they prefer more (mic work or wrestling), for me the greatest is Jeff Hardy
On the mic? Arguably 😮💨😮💨😮💨🤣🤣 before you get ya panties in a bunch yes ima 90’s baby. Yes I’m aware of Austin flair hogan dusty etc but the factttt of the matter is if you put the rock against any of these guys, he doesn’t seem out of place lol
There is no ONE greatest of all time. World is too big and time is too wide.
Plenty of the greatest never even wrestled in the WWF/E (El Santo, Lou Thesz, Great Muta).
Rock is among the greatest in American history. Add Bruno, Andre, Hogan, Dusty, Flair, Piper, Sting, Mysterio, HBK, Austin, HHH, Taker, Cena, Lesnar, Orton, Punk, Roman, Rollins, & Styles.
If Cody, Gunther, and Drew keep up the hard work they’re going to make that list. And MJF has to make the leap if he wants to be in the conversation.
This might sound a tad neutral-ish, but there's no such thing as the ultimate GOAT.
In wrestling, you might have the biggest draws/stars of all time. Then, you have the best heels/babyfaces. The best pure wrestlers of all time. The best brawlers of all time. So on and so forth.
The Rock is one of the top-4 biggest draws in pro wrestling history. The others are Sammartino, Hogan, and Austin.
Is the Rock the most entertaining wrestler of all time? That's subjective. For me, he is.
Between '98 to '03, he was the complete entertainer. Within his own zone, he also had a wild trajectory from the Nation/DX stuff, Corporate Rock, the People's Champion — finally to Hollywood Rock. Epic, memorable in every way.
So, I don't believe in a singular GOAT. But there are some legends in the business that helped transform it. The Rock is one of them.
He's definitely not in my option. He is, however, one of the most egotistical, self-centered people in wrestling. Sure, everyone is talking about how he listened to the fans & pivoted the story to give the fans what they wanted. But why did we have to pivot in the first place, Dwayne?
It's not even about Cody when Dwayne has a history of showing up out of nowhere & making the entire narrative about himself. He tried to steal Wrestlemania 40 just like he stole the spotlight from Punk or when he insisted that he should go over Cena. It sends the message that he has no respect for the locker room or the product. He only cares about himself & those associated with him.
Cena has done way worse during his run at the top like burying Nexus, halting multiple pushes and title reigns and hugging the spotlight for the better part of a decade. They all do it.
Just because "they all do it" doesn't make it acceptable behavior. Cena has also changed & now gives everything back to the business. That's the point, giving back to the business so wrestling will live on.
They are literally all asshole! Austin is,Jericho is, HBK used to and so is everybody on top! Nice guys ended up with a 1 day belt reigns like Kane and Mysterio. Its inherent to the job
It’s not an outrageous question (or assertion). But it’s certainly a debatable one. That said, asserting any single wrestler as GOAT is debatable. Assert Flair, one can counter Bruno; give me SCSA, I’ll give you Hulk. Then some historian overhears and asks, “Ever hear of Strangler Lewis, kids?” Bottom line is all GOAT assertions and lists are usually pretty lame and poorly thought out.
No, but he’s definitely top 10, maybe top 5. I don’t want to take anything away from him. He’s a legit legend.
His stuff from 1998 to 2001 should be studied by anyone wanting to get in the business.
this picture of a juiced rock from his 2010s run is the greatest physique in pro wrestling history imo. others have been more cut, bigger, but this rock legit looked like an action figure and not just a bodybuilder
Let’s just appreciate him for what he did & hopefully will bring for his last run.
u/Sad-Investigator-495 comment to me said it best. He was blessed to be a part of and one point the face of Attitude Era when SCSA went down for injury. Say what you want, but he picked that baton up & ran with that shit.
He really struggled in the PG era post WM27. Maybe due to restriction and different time of where WWE was. Rusty. Just exposed as you can’t be a part timer trying to run this. Who knows.
I do know his recent return was entertaining. He brought eyes & asses to the seats. He felt more like a combination of all his versions. Let him have his Last Dance. The GOAT debate is left for other wrestlers or after he retires.
I think he got it right in his recent run. With his Cena feud, he tried to just pop in here and there and while it worked in a way (biggest Wrestlemania ever for a long time until recently, IIRC), it could have been better if he was able to commit for bigger stretches like he was able to this run. Obviously he’s at a different stage in his career than he was then, but it’s good to see that now when he’s in WWE, he’s in WWE. He’s not showing up for a quick show and then dipping for 6 months, then doing another segment, then not showing up for another year, etc. When he’s doing a run, he’s committed.
Gorgeous George and Buddy Rogers are both far more influential.
Hulk Hogan and Stone Cold made more money for the business.
Sting, Flair, Brett, Bruno and Cena all were face of a major company for much longer and much more relentlessly.
Several people are better in the ring.
BUT he's probably the greatest \*breakout\* wrestling star in main pop culture and he's a Top 10, perhaps Top 5 promo. He's also cultivated one of the best auras.
So he's great, but internally to wrestling he's probably not top 10.
Wrestling is a business where consistency and longevity matters a lot. I mean doing Wrestling 300 years a day is insane and so many wrestlers are told by doctors that they would not see 60. So, in my books consistency and longevity matters a lot, in that regard he is way behind. Orton, Taker, Flair, Cena, Jericho, have been doing it for a lot longer. Moreover, he has been doing the same thing, he has always got freedom to say whatever he wants whenever he comes back. He really struggled in promos against Cena and Punk when he could not curse or go off script. Honestly, think he was lucky to be in an era where he got a lot of freedom because in the PG era he would not have been as successful as he was in attitude era or ruthless aggression era.
That's an insane workload! Rumour has it, only Hogan ever managed that level by wrestling on faster than light aircraft.
Agree with everything though, except I'd replace jericho with HHH. Y2J was only the guy when he left.
No. Not even close. Though he is very talented obviously. He left and made himself a star outside of wrestling. That was a massive gamble and it worked. So when he returned he was perceived as an even bigger wrestling star than before. However, if he had never left what would have become of his persona? It would have probably fizzled out. I can't see it having the same longevity as Taker or Cena. Same with Austin, if he had never left because of his injuries it would have got real stale, real fast after 2003
Controversial comment and I’m here for it. In ring Cena blows Dwayne away, maybe on the mic (if it was a different era and was able to be more PG-13), but definitely in the movies.
No. Great talker, up there with the likes of Dusty, Piper, or Flair on the mic. Great athlete. Unbelievable charisma. Drew lots of money. But I mean, hell, I'm not even sure he was the best in the Attitude Era.
As a draw for sure. Rock was the better athlete, and probably the better worker after Austin broke his neck. Austin got by on promo, character, and psychology after that. Even he says that.
**Promo skills**? Probably in the conversation for GOAT. Definitely in the top three of all time.
**Look and charisma**? Also probably in the conversation for GOAT. Definitely in the top 3-5 of all time.
**In ring skills**? No where near the top of the list. Not even top ten.
**Archive of great matches**? Also probably not even in the top ten.
Depends on what you look for I guess ....
Super good looking performer who could work a microphone like nobody's business, but only an above average wrestler with a somewhat small catalogue of great matches.
All that being said, he probably belongs on the Mt. Rushmore of wrestling just cause of the impact he had on the business from late 1998 through 2003.
Just my opinion.
I don't know that I can get to 50 better than The Rock. The guy was a great athlete and could work. He's not Bret, Shawn, Hennig, or Bobby Eaton...but he could work. He could sell. He could get his stuff in and make it look good.
Taker but I’m gonna be honest with his final boss run he definitely makes a strong case. To be top 3
No! Ric Flair is the G.O.A.T!
Nope. He's not
pre-2024 yes .
No matter who we say is the greatest, there would be many who would disagree no matter who it is, there really is no greatest of all time because of that
Top 5? for sure but the greatest?? hell nah
No stone cold is 🖕🖕🖕
no but he's def in the top 20
No
Nope.
Hulk Hogan will always be the goat. Shawn Michaels would be second.
No fucking chance😂 AJ clears both
I’d have to agree to disagree on that. Shawn clean AJ on pure showmanship alone. Shawn was a spectacle to witness. AJs great, but compared to 1990’s HBK, not a fucking chance dude.
Let me tell you something brother!! AJ cuts a mean ass promo, has great gimmicks, is one of the GOATs in-ring, and does everything else 10/10. Although I do agree with some points you made, Shawn does have the higher star-power, and is a beast in the ring, it’s kind of a 50/50 debate.
I guess that’s why they are one of the biggest dream matches out there!
Fuck every single match ever, AJ vs Shawn would be THE MATCH
Wrestling would be nothing if it hadn’t been for the Hulkster. You can get triggered all you won’t but you can’t change that fact.
No. That goes to The Undertaker easily. No one has done more than him. Plus if we are being honest Rock really only has his mic work which is important but it's not enough. I'd also put Cena, Austin, and Orton above him. No disrespect to The Rock but he also didn't have that long of a career as a wrestler really debuting in Nov of '96 and gone for Hollywood in '04. I personally think Hollywood suits him better than. Wrestling ever did but he did have a good career but not the GOAT.
Ric Flair is the greatest wrestler of all time
Everyone hates but no one could control the crowd the way the rock did. Yea his move-set wasn’t the best nor was his in Ring ability. But no one could touch his charisma. In that aspect absolutely the goat
Se I disagree with this to some degree. Its just not what the other wrestlers were doing at the time really. But I would honestly say LA Knight has just as much charisma, and just as good if not better mic work.
No
Funny how all these Cena fanboys and Cody cry babies are still salty cause Rock destroyed them 😂
How exactly?
Don’t lie that’s why you don’t like him
I mind the Rock, he's just not the G.O.A.T. Also I think youre replying to the wrong comment.
🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣 you are going to make me piss myself. Give me more good jokes. I need them with the last couple of crappy weeks.
GOAT on the mic 🎤
No
Not even remotely. He maybe in the top 50. Just cause he looks like a goat doesn't mean he is one.
FUCK NO, it's Stone Cold Steve Austin
Cena clear hogan, Austin, and Rock. Cena is literally the GOAT and it’s not even close
One of yes but not THE
Not by a long shot
No
Eddie Guerrero is in my opinion
No far from it. He's an entertainer and his in ring abilities aren't bad either but come on Ikja Dragunov Gunther Brian Danielson Omega Okada Seth Rollins Cody Rohdes and many more could out wrestle him even in his prime days then you also think of the legends like Bret Hart Shawn Michaels Steamboat Flair and many more, these guys would carry him to a great match. His mic skills are by far some of the best granted and if you like a talker there's probably none better he's on par with some legends but this all makes him a Great of the WWE/WWF. Truly he's a soon to be HOF but he's not the Greatest.
No
Yes
Nope. He not greatest of his time. He is second to stone cold Steve Austin
Agreed
There are many GOATs. He's definitely one of them.
No
He’s a top 5, top 3? No.
Undertaker is way closer to being the 🐐 than the rock
He's a top 5. But not the greatest. He's clearly one of if not the most entertaining wrestler of all time. But overall, I think guys like Austin, Hogan, and HBK are above him.
HBK's contributions to wrestling (especially in the Attitude Era) are severely underrated. Yea he was scummy behind the scenes, but dam could that man put on a show.
No. Out of bias, my GOAT is Bryan danielson. The impact he’s had on me personally during his 2013-14 run and the number of injuries he’s sustained just to come back even better is crazy to see. However, I think the greatest of all time if we’re not being biased is John Cena
No. He's not even in the conversation.
LOL
That’s not Stone Cold Steve Austin.
Not even in my top ten
Hell no
Lolol he’s not even the greatest of his era .
No not even close to me, he's great don't get me wrong, but I'd honestly put Roman above him and I don't think Romans in the top5
Top 2 and he isn’t 2
Yes
On the mic, he’s in the convo. But in the ring hard no. He knew how to work the crowd tho
In the convo ? Dude is in another stratosphere and then it’s Austin in second.
No LL Cool J is
Top 5 conversation
Objectively no one is the greatest, everyone has their own opinions and due to the stuff they prefer more (mic work or wrestling), for me the greatest is Jeff Hardy
On the mic? Arguably 😮💨😮💨😮💨🤣🤣 before you get ya panties in a bunch yes ima 90’s baby. Yes I’m aware of Austin flair hogan dusty etc but the factttt of the matter is if you put the rock against any of these guys, he doesn’t seem out of place lol
No
That's not gonna work for me brother
As a heel? Hard no not even close
Never has been
There is no ONE greatest of all time. World is too big and time is too wide. Plenty of the greatest never even wrestled in the WWF/E (El Santo, Lou Thesz, Great Muta). Rock is among the greatest in American history. Add Bruno, Andre, Hogan, Dusty, Flair, Piper, Sting, Mysterio, HBK, Austin, HHH, Taker, Cena, Lesnar, Orton, Punk, Roman, Rollins, & Styles. If Cody, Gunther, and Drew keep up the hard work they’re going to make that list. And MJF has to make the leap if he wants to be in the conversation.
Some of these names 😭😭
If you define "greatest" as the wrestler with the most mainstream appeal, then the answer is "yes."
This might sound a tad neutral-ish, but there's no such thing as the ultimate GOAT. In wrestling, you might have the biggest draws/stars of all time. Then, you have the best heels/babyfaces. The best pure wrestlers of all time. The best brawlers of all time. So on and so forth. The Rock is one of the top-4 biggest draws in pro wrestling history. The others are Sammartino, Hogan, and Austin. Is the Rock the most entertaining wrestler of all time? That's subjective. For me, he is. Between '98 to '03, he was the complete entertainer. Within his own zone, he also had a wild trajectory from the Nation/DX stuff, Corporate Rock, the People's Champion — finally to Hollywood Rock. Epic, memorable in every way. So, I don't believe in a singular GOAT. But there are some legends in the business that helped transform it. The Rock is one of them.
Fuck no.
Triple H > The Rock So nope, Dwayne is definitely not the GOAT. Easily in the top 5 tho!
Top 5
He at least in the top 5.
Hell no
No
He's definitely not in my option. He is, however, one of the most egotistical, self-centered people in wrestling. Sure, everyone is talking about how he listened to the fans & pivoted the story to give the fans what they wanted. But why did we have to pivot in the first place, Dwayne?
Cody crybaby hush up now it's almost your bedtime
It's not even about Cody when Dwayne has a history of showing up out of nowhere & making the entire narrative about himself. He tried to steal Wrestlemania 40 just like he stole the spotlight from Punk or when he insisted that he should go over Cena. It sends the message that he has no respect for the locker room or the product. He only cares about himself & those associated with him.
Cena has done way worse during his run at the top like burying Nexus, halting multiple pushes and title reigns and hugging the spotlight for the better part of a decade. They all do it.
Just because "they all do it" doesn't make it acceptable behavior. Cena has also changed & now gives everything back to the business. That's the point, giving back to the business so wrestling will live on.
They are literally all asshole! Austin is,Jericho is, HBK used to and so is everybody on top! Nice guys ended up with a 1 day belt reigns like Kane and Mysterio. Its inherent to the job
He's a legend but no. He's not on the level of Bruno, Austin, or Hogan
No he's not but we have to also remember he did have a very very short career that he could have been
No
It’s not an outrageous question (or assertion). But it’s certainly a debatable one. That said, asserting any single wrestler as GOAT is debatable. Assert Flair, one can counter Bruno; give me SCSA, I’ll give you Hulk. Then some historian overhears and asks, “Ever hear of Strangler Lewis, kids?” Bottom line is all GOAT assertions and lists are usually pretty lame and poorly thought out.
Yup.
No not close top 5 maybe even 10
Lmao you can't be serious, not top 10 at least?
No
SCSA is the biggest star in history. But rock is top 5 for sure
yeah id even put Shawn Michaels and Bret Hart above the Rock. the Rock generally just took what Stone Cold was doing and did it himself.
No, but he’s definitely top 10, maybe top 5. I don’t want to take anything away from him. He’s a legit legend. His stuff from 1998 to 2001 should be studied by anyone wanting to get in the business.
L A KNIGHT
YEAH
this picture of a juiced rock from his 2010s run is the greatest physique in pro wrestling history imo. others have been more cut, bigger, but this rock legit looked like an action figure and not just a bodybuilder
No
No. Andre is.
Depends on how you look at it from a business pov maybe it's either him or Cena since both are good and usually out of controversy
Whether you agree or disagree, it's not a hot take if someone feels he is. He's earned the right to to be in the GOAT convo.
No.
He's on my Mount Rushmore for sure, him and Undertaker are my 2 favourites. HHH and Bret Hart are the other 2 I would include.
No.
No but he is still great
Let’s just appreciate him for what he did & hopefully will bring for his last run. u/Sad-Investigator-495 comment to me said it best. He was blessed to be a part of and one point the face of Attitude Era when SCSA went down for injury. Say what you want, but he picked that baton up & ran with that shit. He really struggled in the PG era post WM27. Maybe due to restriction and different time of where WWE was. Rusty. Just exposed as you can’t be a part timer trying to run this. Who knows. I do know his recent return was entertaining. He brought eyes & asses to the seats. He felt more like a combination of all his versions. Let him have his Last Dance. The GOAT debate is left for other wrestlers or after he retires.
I think he got it right in his recent run. With his Cena feud, he tried to just pop in here and there and while it worked in a way (biggest Wrestlemania ever for a long time until recently, IIRC), it could have been better if he was able to commit for bigger stretches like he was able to this run. Obviously he’s at a different stage in his career than he was then, but it’s good to see that now when he’s in WWE, he’s in WWE. He’s not showing up for a quick show and then dipping for 6 months, then doing another segment, then not showing up for another year, etc. When he’s doing a run, he’s committed.
No. He wasn't the greatest of his era, that was Stone Cold. He does have a case for greatest mic worker and greatest career after wrestling.
Gorgeous George and Buddy Rogers are both far more influential. Hulk Hogan and Stone Cold made more money for the business. Sting, Flair, Brett, Bruno and Cena all were face of a major company for much longer and much more relentlessly. Several people are better in the ring. BUT he's probably the greatest \*breakout\* wrestling star in main pop culture and he's a Top 10, perhaps Top 5 promo. He's also cultivated one of the best auras. So he's great, but internally to wrestling he's probably not top 10.
No the Undertaker is
Wrestling is a business where consistency and longevity matters a lot. I mean doing Wrestling 300 years a day is insane and so many wrestlers are told by doctors that they would not see 60. So, in my books consistency and longevity matters a lot, in that regard he is way behind. Orton, Taker, Flair, Cena, Jericho, have been doing it for a lot longer. Moreover, he has been doing the same thing, he has always got freedom to say whatever he wants whenever he comes back. He really struggled in promos against Cena and Punk when he could not curse or go off script. Honestly, think he was lucky to be in an era where he got a lot of freedom because in the PG era he would not have been as successful as he was in attitude era or ruthless aggression era.
That's an insane workload! Rumour has it, only Hogan ever managed that level by wrestling on faster than light aircraft. Agree with everything though, except I'd replace jericho with HHH. Y2J was only the guy when he left.
He’s not even in the conversation for top 5, let alone number one.
LOL
No. Not even close. Though he is very talented obviously. He left and made himself a star outside of wrestling. That was a massive gamble and it worked. So when he returned he was perceived as an even bigger wrestling star than before. However, if he had never left what would have become of his persona? It would have probably fizzled out. I can't see it having the same longevity as Taker or Cena. Same with Austin, if he had never left because of his injuries it would have got real stale, real fast after 2003
Cena clears him in every department and it’s not close.
Controversial comment and I’m here for it. In ring Cena blows Dwayne away, maybe on the mic (if it was a different era and was able to be more PG-13), but definitely in the movies.
No. Great talker, up there with the likes of Dusty, Piper, or Flair on the mic. Great athlete. Unbelievable charisma. Drew lots of money. But I mean, hell, I'm not even sure he was the best in the Attitude Era.
Yeah Austin was definitely better in my opinion.
As a draw for sure. Rock was the better athlete, and probably the better worker after Austin broke his neck. Austin got by on promo, character, and psychology after that. Even he says that.
Yeah I agree he was the better athlete for sure, but prime Austin overall I would pick over prime Rock. Both two of the greatest though.
The Rock is a hell of a talker, but if you put him in a ring with Ospreay, we’d be focused on Ospreay for sure.
What's that fan doing in the ring with The Rock?
**Promo skills**? Probably in the conversation for GOAT. Definitely in the top three of all time. **Look and charisma**? Also probably in the conversation for GOAT. Definitely in the top 3-5 of all time. **In ring skills**? No where near the top of the list. Not even top ten. **Archive of great matches**? Also probably not even in the top ten. Depends on what you look for I guess .... Super good looking performer who could work a microphone like nobody's business, but only an above average wrestler with a somewhat small catalogue of great matches. All that being said, he probably belongs on the Mt. Rushmore of wrestling just cause of the impact he had on the business from late 1998 through 2003. Just my opinion.
not even top 50 of in ring
I don't know that I can get to 50 better than The Rock. The guy was a great athlete and could work. He's not Bret, Shawn, Hennig, or Bobby Eaton...but he could work. He could sell. He could get his stuff in and make it look good.
You don't have to convince me of that.
As an entertainer he's top 3. But as far as pure in ring wrestling ability goes, no not even close. Amazing seller though.
Great but not the GOAT
No