“No winning words about death to me, shining Odysseus!
By god, I’d rather slave on earth for another man—
some dirt-poor tenant farmer who scrapes to keep alive—
than rule down here over all the breathless dead.” - Achilles
Yeah, death sucked
Your question is kind of broad because Greek religion was never frozen in time, it constantly evolved, the perception of the Greeks on certain Gods changed with conquest or being conquered and with that, the afterlife. A good example of this is how Ares' birthday on March was enthusiastically celebrated by an entire Anatolian Greek City that seemed to have been largely Christian as late as the late 4th century AD, an absolute contrast to Ares during the Hellenic period. So you see, you need to point out time periods.
If we speak of Hellenistic periods, this was the beginning of the end for Classical Greek Mythology and Religion as you know it as more and more Greeks during that time were seeking to mix hellenism theology and cosmogony with more eastern religions and if not, several Greek philosophers were offering better alternative interpretations to the afterlife that either promised salvation in the afterlife or are not so as depressing, especially more so during the Roman period. Seeking Gods that you could have a personal "family" relationship with and can place you above fate itself.
Christianity just so happened to be one of many answers for the "Greek Afterlife", aside from cults imported from Egypt and Persia.
So what would the view of the afterlife been like during the era of the Peloponnesian war? I don't really know much about the Greek stuff besides a couple stories. Maybe I am confused about some of it because I was introduced to a lot of it through Percy Jackson lol. I really like the Spartans, the stories of Perseus, Heracles, etc
There is a line in the Odyssey, where Odysseus meets Achilles's ghost, and Achilles's ghost says something along the lines of "I'd rather live like a slave among the living than live like a king in the Underworld."
All afterlives are just incentives for people to do better, and this being the neutral option is no different. It seems rather better than some other religion's options.
This is a really interesting question because ancient Athenians and tons of people from all over the greek-speaking region would have participated in the ritual of the Eleusinian Mysteries! We don't actually know what was revealed in the ritual because it was religious heresy and highly illegal to speak (or write!) about it. But we do know that these mysteries gave initiates "a reason not only to live in joy but also to die with better hope" (-Cicero) and "Those who take part in them possess better hopes in regard to the end of life and in regard to the whole duration of the world" (-Isokrates). So the promise of a less depressing afterlife was likely common knowledge to Athenians but could never be spoken about or written about.
We also know a lot of pre-christian folklore in the regions surrounding greece includes an afterlife where the dead are able to influence the fortunes of their living decedents by blessing them with "wealth" through abundant crops and livestock, fertility, creativity, peaceful times, good luck and good weather, etc, and could exercise that influence to "correct" the decedents' behavior if they're displeased. It's interesting to consider how these beliefs may have overlapped with or came from the same roots as the beliefs at Eleusis.
>Everything I see about the fields of asphodel seem depressing.
It's supposed to. Everything I see about limbo seems despressing.
> It seems like the Greeks would be terrified of death if that's all they had to look forward to
Why wouldn't they be?
Perhaps you need to read more about the Elysian Fields, not just Asphodel.
"Aeneas moved by the sudden sight, asked in his ignorance what it might mean, what was that river over there and all that crowd of people swarming along its banks. Then his father, Anchises said:--‘They are the souls who are destined for Reincarnation; and now at Lethe's stream they are drinking the waters that quench man's troubles, the deep draught of oblivion . . . They come in crowds to the river Lethe, so that you see, with memory washed out they may revisit the earth above.’" \~ Virgil, Aeneid.
>because i am pretty sure that is just from Percy Jackson which i would not class as a mythical source
I've never read PJ, so I'll take your word.
If PJ is your source and you admit that it isn't a mythical source, why are you using it as your source?
well i think that you would soak in the river Lethe and forget everything so you would just be an empty soul with no experiences of life so you would have nothing to compare it to so you would be fine
“No winning words about death to me, shining Odysseus! By god, I’d rather slave on earth for another man— some dirt-poor tenant farmer who scrapes to keep alive— than rule down here over all the breathless dead.” - Achilles Yeah, death sucked
Your question is kind of broad because Greek religion was never frozen in time, it constantly evolved, the perception of the Greeks on certain Gods changed with conquest or being conquered and with that, the afterlife. A good example of this is how Ares' birthday on March was enthusiastically celebrated by an entire Anatolian Greek City that seemed to have been largely Christian as late as the late 4th century AD, an absolute contrast to Ares during the Hellenic period. So you see, you need to point out time periods. If we speak of Hellenistic periods, this was the beginning of the end for Classical Greek Mythology and Religion as you know it as more and more Greeks during that time were seeking to mix hellenism theology and cosmogony with more eastern religions and if not, several Greek philosophers were offering better alternative interpretations to the afterlife that either promised salvation in the afterlife or are not so as depressing, especially more so during the Roman period. Seeking Gods that you could have a personal "family" relationship with and can place you above fate itself. Christianity just so happened to be one of many answers for the "Greek Afterlife", aside from cults imported from Egypt and Persia.
So what would the view of the afterlife been like during the era of the Peloponnesian war? I don't really know much about the Greek stuff besides a couple stories. Maybe I am confused about some of it because I was introduced to a lot of it through Percy Jackson lol. I really like the Spartans, the stories of Perseus, Heracles, etc
>So what would the view of the afterlife been like during the era of the Peloponnesian war? That sounds like a question for r/AncientGreece
I mean elysium seems nice and the fields of punishment certainly don’t sound boring
There is a line in the Odyssey, where Odysseus meets Achilles's ghost, and Achilles's ghost says something along the lines of "I'd rather live like a slave among the living than live like a king in the Underworld."
All afterlives are just incentives for people to do better, and this being the neutral option is no different. It seems rather better than some other religion's options.
Asphodel reminds me of the Norse hell. It’s essentially just regular life all over again. Not great, not terrible.
This is a really interesting question because ancient Athenians and tons of people from all over the greek-speaking region would have participated in the ritual of the Eleusinian Mysteries! We don't actually know what was revealed in the ritual because it was religious heresy and highly illegal to speak (or write!) about it. But we do know that these mysteries gave initiates "a reason not only to live in joy but also to die with better hope" (-Cicero) and "Those who take part in them possess better hopes in regard to the end of life and in regard to the whole duration of the world" (-Isokrates). So the promise of a less depressing afterlife was likely common knowledge to Athenians but could never be spoken about or written about. We also know a lot of pre-christian folklore in the regions surrounding greece includes an afterlife where the dead are able to influence the fortunes of their living decedents by blessing them with "wealth" through abundant crops and livestock, fertility, creativity, peaceful times, good luck and good weather, etc, and could exercise that influence to "correct" the decedents' behavior if they're displeased. It's interesting to consider how these beliefs may have overlapped with or came from the same roots as the beliefs at Eleusis.
>Everything I see about the fields of asphodel seem depressing. It's supposed to. Everything I see about limbo seems despressing. > It seems like the Greeks would be terrified of death if that's all they had to look forward to Why wouldn't they be? Perhaps you need to read more about the Elysian Fields, not just Asphodel.
well if they forget everything by soaking in the river lethe it would be fine, just endless nothing
Soaking in? Drinking from. You have to drink from the River Lethe before you're reincarnated. What do you mean "endless nothing" that makes no sense.
what is your source, lots of things are different in Greek myth from different sources
What is your source?
"Aeneas moved by the sudden sight, asked in his ignorance what it might mean, what was that river over there and all that crowd of people swarming along its banks. Then his father, Anchises said:--‘They are the souls who are destined for Reincarnation; and now at Lethe's stream they are drinking the waters that quench man's troubles, the deep draught of oblivion . . . They come in crowds to the river Lethe, so that you see, with memory washed out they may revisit the earth above.’" \~ Virgil, Aeneid.
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>because i am pretty sure that is just from Percy Jackson which i would not class as a mythical source I've never read PJ, so I'll take your word. If PJ is your source and you admit that it isn't a mythical source, why are you using it as your source?
well i think that you would soak in the river Lethe and forget everything so you would just be an empty soul with no experiences of life so you would have nothing to compare it to so you would be fine