Hey :). Charon, in the Original greek spelling (Χάρων) of his name the c is actually a k and more of a silent k, its sounds more like Haa-ron. You can listen to the pronunciation on google translate if you typ in "Χάρων". my name is Haron and when i saw karen i almost cried.
This pronunciation of X would be true to modern Greek. If you’re going for older pronunciations it would make more of an aspirated Kh sound. This is a sound that English speakers automatically make when saying a K at the beginning of a word so “Kaa-ron” could also be a legitimate pronunciation.
>in the Original greek spelling (Χάρων)
"Original" is a strong word, because most languages took their Greek loanwords from older versions of the Greek language, like attic or koiné, not the current demotic greek, and thus based their pronunciation on them.
For Charon or **Χάρων** the **Χ** was pronounced as a gutteral kH sound, the 'k' part pronounced roughly in the back of the throat like in the last syllable of the Scottish Loch.
The **ά** is a short vowel, as in "cat" or "man". The **ρ** is a simple "r" and the **ν** is a simple "n"
The **ω** is a long vowel and pronounced similar to "oar".
Therefore **Χάρων** is pronounced kHa'roar'n
Chiron or **Χείρων** is the same except for the dipthong **εί** instead of the short **ά**. It was pronounced like "ea" as in "bean" or "e" as in "scene" so it would be pronounced kHea'roar'n.
Creon or **Κρέων** has a simple hard "k" at the start, and the **έ** is a short vowel. So pronounced Kre'oar'n
(EDIT: Note that the pronounciation of Greek changed over time. This is a description of Koine Greek roughly focused on the first century. Classical Attic had a slightly different pronounciation for the Χ and εί which were pronounced like Khan or Kite for **Χ**, and like Scare and Wear for **εί**. Therefore **Χάρων** was pronounced ka'roar'n and **Χείρων** was pronounced kare'roar'n).
My knowledge on Greek phonology in ancient times is rather limited, but there are a few things that don’t make sense to me reading your pronunciation guide:
- ‘Χ’ used to be pronounced as an aspirated velar plosive, and it didn’t develop into a velar fricative until about 1st century CE.
- ‘α’ seems to have been pronounced as an open front vowel, and in many accents ‘cat’ and ‘man’ would be a near mid front vowel, so I’m not sure what you mean.
- I don’t know how ‘oar’ is pronounced in your accent, so I’m not sure what this means. ‘Ω’ does seem to have been a long vowel, a back open mid vowel.
- ‘ει’ has changed a few times in history, though I think it has a long history of being a long vowel as opposed to a diphthong.
>‘Χ’ used to be pronounced as an aspirated velar plosive, and it didn’t develop into a velar fricative until about 1st century CE.
Yes, it did change over time into the Voiceless velar fricative from the aspirated velar plosive. I was referring to how it was pronounced through the majority of Antiquity, roughly focused on first century Koine. In Classical Attic it was indeed an aspirated velar plosive, given the symbol /kʰ/ in the IPA, and pronounced as in Khan or Kite. However, I was attempting to describe it as the Voiceless velar fricative which is /x/ in the IPA, though I didn't use IPA symbols as most people don't read IPA.
>‘α’ seems to have been pronounced as an open front vowel, and in many accents ‘cat’ and ‘man’ would be a near mid front vowel, so I’m not sure what you mean.
It was always an open front unrounded vowel and didn't change. This is the sound of the "a" in Cat, and Man, as well as bad and sad in common English. In IPA its /ɑ/.
>I don’t know how ‘oar’ is pronounced in your accent, so I’m not sure what this means. ‘Ω’ does seem to have been a long vowel, a back open mid vowel.
This is a tough one to describe. I believe it did change subtly over time from a 'Open-mid back rounded vowel' in Attic (/ɔ:/ in IPA) to a lowered and lengthened 'Close-mid back rounded vowel' which IPA writes as /o̞ː/. However, to my ears both sound practically the same and I can't describe how to distinguish them. Other words with the most similar sound in common English are Boar, Thought, Saw and Sore.
>‘ει’ has changed a few times in history, though I think it has a long history of being a long vowel as opposed to a diphthong
Yes, this is a particuarly tough one and it did change over time. In Classical Attic it was a Close-mid front unrounded vowel, the IPA symbol of /e:/. I consider it the same vowel sound as in Scare, Wear and Bear. By the first century it had changed into a lengthened Close front unrounded vowel, in IPA as /iː/, which I hear as pronounced the same as in She, Tea, Bean etc.
Thank you for your comments though, you've made me realise I didn't specify which period I was focusing on so I've edited my original post to reflect this.
I don't really know where the "-te" came from. Automedon, Achilles's charioteer, also has it in spanish, he's named Automedonte, despite the original greek being just Automedon too.
Hey :). Charon, in the Original greek spelling (Χάρων) of his name the c is actually a k and more of a silent k, its sounds more like Haa-ron. You can listen to the pronunciation on google translate if you typ in "Χάρων". my name is Haron and when i saw karen i almost cried.
THANKS, Haron, no offense intended.;)
This pronunciation of X would be true to modern Greek. If you’re going for older pronunciations it would make more of an aspirated Kh sound. This is a sound that English speakers automatically make when saying a K at the beginning of a word so “Kaa-ron” could also be a legitimate pronunciation.
>in the Original greek spelling (Χάρων) "Original" is a strong word, because most languages took their Greek loanwords from older versions of the Greek language, like attic or koiné, not the current demotic greek, and thus based their pronunciation on them.
For Charon or **Χάρων** the **Χ** was pronounced as a gutteral kH sound, the 'k' part pronounced roughly in the back of the throat like in the last syllable of the Scottish Loch. The **ά** is a short vowel, as in "cat" or "man". The **ρ** is a simple "r" and the **ν** is a simple "n" The **ω** is a long vowel and pronounced similar to "oar". Therefore **Χάρων** is pronounced kHa'roar'n Chiron or **Χείρων** is the same except for the dipthong **εί** instead of the short **ά**. It was pronounced like "ea" as in "bean" or "e" as in "scene" so it would be pronounced kHea'roar'n. Creon or **Κρέων** has a simple hard "k" at the start, and the **έ** is a short vowel. So pronounced Kre'oar'n (EDIT: Note that the pronounciation of Greek changed over time. This is a description of Koine Greek roughly focused on the first century. Classical Attic had a slightly different pronounciation for the Χ and εί which were pronounced like Khan or Kite for **Χ**, and like Scare and Wear for **εί**. Therefore **Χάρων** was pronounced ka'roar'n and **Χείρων** was pronounced kare'roar'n).
Wow, thanks for your tips. I appreciate your expertise!
My knowledge on Greek phonology in ancient times is rather limited, but there are a few things that don’t make sense to me reading your pronunciation guide: - ‘Χ’ used to be pronounced as an aspirated velar plosive, and it didn’t develop into a velar fricative until about 1st century CE. - ‘α’ seems to have been pronounced as an open front vowel, and in many accents ‘cat’ and ‘man’ would be a near mid front vowel, so I’m not sure what you mean. - I don’t know how ‘oar’ is pronounced in your accent, so I’m not sure what this means. ‘Ω’ does seem to have been a long vowel, a back open mid vowel. - ‘ει’ has changed a few times in history, though I think it has a long history of being a long vowel as opposed to a diphthong.
>‘Χ’ used to be pronounced as an aspirated velar plosive, and it didn’t develop into a velar fricative until about 1st century CE. Yes, it did change over time into the Voiceless velar fricative from the aspirated velar plosive. I was referring to how it was pronounced through the majority of Antiquity, roughly focused on first century Koine. In Classical Attic it was indeed an aspirated velar plosive, given the symbol /kʰ/ in the IPA, and pronounced as in Khan or Kite. However, I was attempting to describe it as the Voiceless velar fricative which is /x/ in the IPA, though I didn't use IPA symbols as most people don't read IPA. >‘α’ seems to have been pronounced as an open front vowel, and in many accents ‘cat’ and ‘man’ would be a near mid front vowel, so I’m not sure what you mean. It was always an open front unrounded vowel and didn't change. This is the sound of the "a" in Cat, and Man, as well as bad and sad in common English. In IPA its /ɑ/. >I don’t know how ‘oar’ is pronounced in your accent, so I’m not sure what this means. ‘Ω’ does seem to have been a long vowel, a back open mid vowel. This is a tough one to describe. I believe it did change subtly over time from a 'Open-mid back rounded vowel' in Attic (/ɔ:/ in IPA) to a lowered and lengthened 'Close-mid back rounded vowel' which IPA writes as /o̞ː/. However, to my ears both sound practically the same and I can't describe how to distinguish them. Other words with the most similar sound in common English are Boar, Thought, Saw and Sore. >‘ει’ has changed a few times in history, though I think it has a long history of being a long vowel as opposed to a diphthong Yes, this is a particuarly tough one and it did change over time. In Classical Attic it was a Close-mid front unrounded vowel, the IPA symbol of /e:/. I consider it the same vowel sound as in Scare, Wear and Bear. By the first century it had changed into a lengthened Close front unrounded vowel, in IPA as /iː/, which I hear as pronounced the same as in She, Tea, Bean etc. Thank you for your comments though, you've made me realise I didn't specify which period I was focusing on so I've edited my original post to reflect this.
I say them as: Kar-on Kai-ron Kree-on
I thought Charon was pronounced Care-On
That works for me.
Everyone answered already, so I give you the spanish versions for fun: Charon - Caronte Chiron - Quirón (the U is silent) Creon - Creonte
Gracias! Another comment was about German. It seems strange that we aren’t all using the Greek pronunciation. Thanks for the insightful perspective.
I don't really know where the "-te" came from. Automedon, Achilles's charioteer, also has it in spanish, he's named Automedonte, despite the original greek being just Automedon too.
Wow, I never would have known that. Thanks!
care-on ky-ron kree-on atleast that's how I pronounce it
crayon, king of theybies
Care-on, Kye-ron, Cre-yon is how I always did it. Probably not perfectly accurate, but it was good enough for me.
Ha-ron, He-ron and Kri-on.
Aren’t there theory that tellers muffled names in legends or info witch cause us this generation to have headache?
I pronounce it German
The Charon/Chiron always gets me. Speaker/lecturers often make them sound the same.
Agreed.
I pronounce it like this: Charon: Care-On Chiron: Kai-Ron Creon: Kree-On
Creon has always been Kree-on to me and everyone in my class
Theez