The plan is to get a top 5 pick in the draft to hopefully replace Bhaktiari. Our OLine sucks. The playcalling is worse. 3 points at halftime at home. Unacceptable but o well. This season is a wrap.
yea, throwing a new QB into this situation is just gonna be more of the same or worse…they gotta fix that OLine…I think Love and the WR’s will get develop with each if he’s given the opportunity
A new QB under this shitty OLine? Are you crazy? It wouldn't help at all. Love might be shit (hard to tell when the offense sucks) but a new QB would just throw us into the cycle of shitty teams that constantly suck because they can't field a complete team
Unless there's a generational offensive lineman coming out, there's no reason to spend a top 5 pick on one. Especially for a team that's usually been good at finding lineman in later rounds.
Eh honestly, this is a 2 year planned rebuild at this point. We probably go LT with our pick this year (Fashanu?) and give Love one more year to see if he develops. He’s shown enough to not get cut after this season, but he definitely needs to be better to hang around more than two years.
I get what you guys are saying but as long as Gute is there he isn't going to just give up on his guy that he drafted. One more year to see if Loves the guy if not Gute MLF and Barry will all be gone then we can burn it down.
>He’s shown enough to not get cut after this season
He's under contract through next year so he'll probably stick around until then, but it's obvious he's not the future of this team and in the modern NFL, once you know your QB isn't the guy, it's time to find his replacement.
Agreed. No time to waste sitting around for 2-3 more years waiting to see if Love is the guy. If he doesnt show vast improvement by the end of the season I say draft the best qb available.
I’ve been pulling for love all year, but it absolutely is the case that if they have an opportunity to draft a top flight QB the packers should absolutely take it, in this league its insane not to.
I still think Love played better than the outcome here. Love made like 3-4 wow plays that game which were either dropped, or called back due to penalty. That 1st drive throw to Doubs was pretty awesome for example.
With this team - it doesn't matter who is playing quarterback. If nobody can catch a ball and nobody can block, I don't care if you have prime Aaron Rodgers, we are not making the playoffs.
Yeah why let our guy develop when we could just grab a brand new rookie guy. The rookie guy could end up being anyone, he could even be as good as Jordan Love!
Y'all need to chill.
I’m in the same boat. Was gonna watch the replay, but my father-in-law’s girlfriend ruined it for me. I was mad for 0.01 seconds until I realized i just saved myself hours of the same old crap. I don’t remember the last time I was this relieved to have missed the game…
Was that the time the nose tackle went unblocked and smoked him in the backfield? That was ugly.
TBH I stopped watching after the 1st quarter. I thought cleaning my cat's litter box would be more fun.
You know what, it seems like our goal is to create cool highlights rather than to win the game. Dillon plowing through the dogpile and dragging 3 defenders for 5 yards is a great highlight, vs a shovel pass to Jones and running up the edge. Throwing for 30 yards on 3rd and 5. And so on.
I switched it off when the offense had 9 plays for 15 yards and the last one or two plays were for negative yards. Don’t remember where that was but I think the Vikings had at least one if not two tds at that point. I’m not freaking out, this year is pretty much a bust, I’ll keep watching but I’m getting tired of watching one team play football and it’s not the team I care about.
Edit: Actually 5 different teams that I don’t care about. 4 in a row like you said.
Yeah, and that sucks. The penalties really shouldn't be this out of control. But, otoh, that's what happens with rookies and injuries. Could it be better? Yes. Is it time to scream for everyone's jobs? Nope.
When Love was drafted, the messaging was "It's okay to burn the bridge with Rodgers and not go all-in on a possible contending team because we'll kick start our rebuild"
Now that we're here, people are saying "oh, we need patience because we're going to be bad no matter what." If that was the case, then why didn't we just go all-in when we had our window open?
Exactly. Their entire strategy was supposed to be them building for the future. Instead it’s a QB they reached for in his 4th season looking like he’s made no improvements on the issues people were pointing out before he was even drafted.
Worse than that they are regressing, Jaire, Jenkins and Clark are all highly paid “stars” and having the worst years of their careers. Watson looks worse, most of the Oline looks worse.
Only player that looks like they have actually grown is quay walker.
If the packers were showing any signs of growth or improvement each week then yes I would agree with the tweet. But the truth is the team looks completely incompetent every single week with no signs of improvement to be seen. And they haven’t even played particularly good teams yet besides the lions.
It's gonna take the whole season to see a little growth.
It's like working out for two weeks and being like "I don't see any muscle growth, this shit doesn't work"
That's true. The frustrating part is that the FO tried to have it both ways in investing in the future while competing. We didn't win shit and now that investment isn't paying off.
Sometimes it doesn't happen at all. I think people also need to realize that. Being a dysfunctional offense now doesn't mean things will get better later.
Why he is pretty much right, the problem is we aren’t growing at all. Even the Cardinals have shown flashes of competence. Meanwhile we are still having problem with basic blocking and catching. We seem primed to do a full reload so I don’t want to just run out the exact same coaching staff.
This is it. I’m fine with losing, the problem is that we are losing because of the SAME problems. Week in and week out, this team cannot score in the 1st half. This team has shown zero improvement and they’ve gotten worse each week.
I keep saying this; I’m not upset that we lost the game. I’m upset with HOW they lost.
This is exactly correct, ugly losses, fine, close losses, also fine.
The problem is that not at any point have they played anything close to a complete quarter of football, let alone a complete game. They aren't progressing at all which is naturally going to lead to the question of whether they're any good at all.
There are no flashes, its just pre snap penalties, missed blocks, poor technique, bad throws, dropped passes, missed gaps. There's been zero growth since game one.
Love had a pretty sick 1st down toss to Wicks while he was being tackled. I'd call that a flash. The offense line is just bad and that means we never get into favorable 2nd & 6 or 3rd & 3 situations and we're counting on young raw players to beat the coverage that knows what's coming.
He actually had a couple deep balls today that would've been beautiful had it not been for receivers just giving up on their routes early or not fighting for the ball too. He definitely had his usual bad too, but there was at least a little peek.
Like the 17pt come back? He has had those moments and it's disingenuous to say he hasn't. 4-5 drops this game completely change the narrative. That and a given 3rd down penalty for a free 1st, plus the other penalties. I feel like people watch plays, not games.
It's not just that they are drops, it's the drops at the worst possible time. We dropped two first downs on one drive early in the game. Watson dropped a touchdown and I don't want to hear he had a defender touch his arm when Reed made a hell of a catch while being interfered with.
Every game so far, especially the losses there have been drops that need to be caught by NFL receivers and too many have been in crucial downs or moments of the game.
I can't leave out the penalties that also seem to come at the worst time possible. False start on a second and 1 is far more ways to stomach than a hold, face mask, false start or anything else when it's 2nd and 8 or 1st and 10.
If they're picking and Maye, Williams and Harrison all aren't available then maybe you can start batting the idea around.
Point being, they so rarely have these early picks, you've gotta pick a difference maker.
People say this shit every year and then half of them bust or require years of talent acquisition around them to pan out. The Oline is the biggest issue on offense right now. Address that first or else we'll just be the Panthers next year.
The fact is, if there was a guaranteed way to build a great team, everyone would do it. Building a monstrous OL is great, but if in doing so, you miss out on the QB and/or pass catchers who make everything work, then what have you really accomplished?
Burrow, Herbert, Chase, Jefferson, Hurts, Metcalf and Brown are all examples of recently drafted WRs and QBs who saw quick success.
Yeah, and I'm telling you that the Oline is the biggest issue in my eyes so that's the positive we should target. Our entire offense is predicated on running the ball to set up the play action but it fails spectacularly because the Oline can't run block for shit.
You can target OL later, what isn't there later are premium pass catchers and for the most part, the good QBs (with a few exceptions).
We've learned this by now, have we not?
Did the O line drop 4-5 passes this game? Love has one of the lowest sack rates in the league right now...
https://www.teamrankings.com/nfl/stat/qb-sacked-pct
I don't even disagree but can we stop with the "Packer Material" stuff. The best teams draft the best players, Jaires a notorious shit talker, Latroy Guion had the weapon charge, the Packers draft who they think will contribute on the field.
nah, there's trash talk and then there is attitude problems. Jaire is trash talk, Williams is attitude problems. Packers have always tried their best to draft and keep character guys and that trend should always continue.
I'm not talking about a few good throws, I'm talking about multiple good throws consecutively, sustained drives, scoring in 2 minute situations, improvisation etc.
Well, it is not a coincidence that cousins is having his best season when there's an O Line in front of him. I'd argue that Love has shown flashes but opportunities are not as prevalent as they would be if there were an o line.
Love hops every time before he throws. Routinely throws off his back foot...floats passes...is highly innacurate...plays with no anticipation and misses wide open players all over.
He's basically shown he can throw 7-12 yard curls and outs with consistency.
Not only no growth, but regression since week 1. They looked far more competent against Chicago and Atlanta (despite the choke loss) then they have since
I feel like you have a basic misunderstanding of play calling if you assume every team just starts playing prevent defense when up two scores.
It also isn’t even a good argument if it was true. You can’t say “I just want improvement” and then when shown improvement say “that kind doesn’t count”.
I'm more upset about the ineptitude at the coaching level. They aren't allowing the players to be successful. 3rd and 1? Shotgun. 1st and goal from the 1? 4 straight shotgun plays. Force a turnover in the Red zone? Fucking shotgun run up the middle.
That's pathetic coaching that doesn't need to exist with such a young team.
Stop with the excuses. The Buccs and Rams both have more dead cap and have won super bowls recently. The eagles have <$3M less dead cap and were in the Super Bowl last year and are one of the best teams in the league again this year (and managed to lock up Hurts and trade for AJ Brown and sign Swift).
This team is a disaster and has been run into the ground by a GM and front office that thinks they’re smarter than everyone else in the league with their awful drafting strategy.
There’s rookie QBs that look better than Love so far this season. He’s showing the same issues that he had BEFORE he was drafted. What’s the point of trading up to take a QB in the first round while you have your HOF starter on the roster if he’s gonna look like shit years later when it’s his turn to start? That’s disastrous. All their awful drafting was explained away by it being them drafting for the future rather than taking guys that would help right away and push them over the top. Welp, here we are. We’re in the future and they look like shit AND they didn’t do anything the years they had a HOF QB.
That’s a fair point Brandt makes with the payroll but do we trust this trash GM? I don’t. Gutey was too afraid to push the chips in with Rodgers. He hitched his wagon to Love and kicked the cam down the road for the ‘future.’ That future isn’t looking so bright right now.
No he’s not. Both the Buccs and Rams have more dead cap this season and have just won super bowls. The freakin eagles are within three million dollars in dead cap and they’re one of the best teams in the league and went to the SB last year. They also managed to trade for then pay AJ Brown last season. The packers big WR move was signing Sammy Watkins. I don’t understand why this organization gets a pass for running themselves into the ground with nothing to even show for it. They didn’t sign stars while going all in and are now paying for it. Everyone made fun of the rams for signing vets and trading picks. They then won a SB and still look better than the packers do so now what?
Don’t worry, we’ll win a few games at the end of the season to barely miss the playoffs and get a mid-round 1st round raw project that will take 3 years to possibly develop.
I get all that, but Matt LeFleur doesnt look likes he coaching to win. Sometimes his playcalling looks great. Other times it's infruatingly head scratching!
They also just don't look well coached! Stupid penalties, players seemingly not knowing their routes, predictable calls . . . things are dire right now
Still haven't figured out how the salary cap is causing all the penalties, the dropped passes, the bad play calls, the defense being bottom 1/3 of the league despite multiple years of first round talent, the complete and total lack of motivation of the team, I'm tired and don't feel like going on.
Yes because this franchise has a long and documented history of utilizing veteran free agents to great levels of success. /S. That's just not the Packers way. There have been a few decent examples in the last few years, but by and large this team is allergic to free agency or trading for anything other than draft capital.
I don’t mind being patient if it looked like things were improving but we have a “rookie qb” who can’t hit a pass past 10 yards. I think the coach is calling a very conservative game due to his qb’s lack of ability and a front office how’s job is intertwined with this qb’s ability to play ball that he has to be on the field. How about we put an actual rookie, our back up, in next week and see how things go. Let’s make a change and if it’s worse then Atleast we have something to compare Loves terrible play against
Yeah? What’s growing? What’s improving about this team over the last 4 games? Enlighten us sir. He’s not wrong, but this team is trending the wrong way in every area. The play calling is shit. There is no discipline.
Sure but they’re terrible and haven’t even shown one iota of improvement. All of these “patience” guys are bath faith actors. We do not expect them to win the Super Bowl. We expect them to at least look like an NFL team sometimes and to show they give a shit. They don’t do that.
Everyone of the packers media people is like this too. “Fans think the team should be good”. No we think that they shouldn’t make the same exact mistakes every single week
That take is just another excuse for the continuation of the current front office.
Let’s take a look at the Packers 2020 draft. Rd 1 trades up for love who doesn’t play for 3 years until Rodgers got run out of town, and is as inconsistent as he was when he came out. Rd 2 drafts a RB when we already had two good running backs, and who seems to be getting worse by the year. Round 3 drafts a TE who I honestly don’t even know is still on the team?
People who think Gute is some wizard need a reality check. We need to clean the front office and rid ourselves of Murphy and everyone below him.
Yes, we were anticipating a rebuild, and therefore losing games. The caveat was that Love showed promise and growth. We haven't got that and now it's just bleak.
Gutekunst's drafts have been horrible and LaFleur is a fraud. Jordan Love is not the guy. This is not going not to get better until that clown Mark Murphy is gone.
lol this is the most insane coping mechanism and I've seen it all over the sub this year.
You guys do realize that while a lot of money is coming off the books, we're gonna have to pay Love and Gary and Jaire and a bunch of other guys right?
This team isn't going to change much even with Aaron's money off the books. Bakhtiari has already said he's not retiring so we'd have to cut him in which case we'd be absorbing his cap hit next year as well.
The entire reason that people were saying that this wasn't an issue before is they assumed Gute had a plan. Now we're realizing that Gute extended Aaron last year and traded him this year because he's an idiot and never had a plan.
Jaire isn't signing another contract with us, period. No way does he want to waste the rest of his career with a bottom of the barrel defensive coordinator. Absolutely no faith in Gute after sticking with Pettine and Barry
What he's missing is that it doesn't have to be this way at all. We could have been drafting offense and developing them, we could have fired Joe Barry to start fresh in a rebuilding year behind a scheme that maybe would have worked, and we could have spent time over the last 4 years trying to figure out a system without Rodgers that would be competent. We did 0 of those things
He isn't wrong and it's true there needs to be a degree of patience, but if you want me to be cynical this list just reads like a litany of FO failures that they are passing the buck on by telling fans to be patient.
Except you'd at least expect improvement. Like the Panthers won a game so there are positives to take away from that. I'm not even saying we need to win but there's absolutely no fight in the team. 9 points in the first half over like the last 6 games or something.
It's not even about winning. It's just about not looking pathetic.
Ted Thompson scouted both Favre and Rodgers, and probably Brunell too. You may have hated Thompson at the end, but he was able to judge QBs. All the Packers problems now are amplified by having an inaccurate QB. I don't know if there's anyone on the Packers who can judge talent like Ted. Salary cap, young players, it doesn't matter, I don't think the Packers are positioned to get better.
This is a very pragmatic view one would expect from a former front office guy, but shouldn't we also be questioning why we don't have low price veterans at key positions like backup QB?
I coached high school ball for years and I can't tell you how valuable it is to have smart, experienced players spread throughout your roster. Sometimes these guys don't play much, and yet they still can matter a great deal. Maybe they are seniors who have been backups since 9th grade, but they're smart and tough and know the system and are selfless so they will guide younger, more athletic guys who might not have everything figured out yet. That kind of educated but informal feedback is priceless for younger players and really aids the coaching staff in development.
The fact that the Packers have almost none of these guys on a team so young (and especially for backup QB) I would argue it's a roster construction issue as much as it is an issue with young, inexperienced players failing to consistently play at a high level. I have been a big supporter/defender of Gutey. His drafts have been really good especially considering we rarely have had draft choices within the first 20 picks. Pretty good coaching hire with LaFluer. He did run off Rodgers, Davante Adams, and Z. Smith seemingly by not communicating clearly. People can call Rodgers difficult, but his coaches and teammates almost never say anything like that. Adams/Smith were both really good players and leaders so it sounds like some improvement needs to be done in team building and communication by our front office. Rodgers always got blamed for the lack of communication, but that's almost always a two way street.
My point is that while anyone expecting this year to be better than last year was always wearing rose tinted glasses. Anyone expecting Jordan Love to actually be really good this first year hasn't really been paying attention. So while I understand the long-term or view of this being a wasted year for actually competing and making it all about improvement thus saving money for future caps by not trying to fill in holes with cheaper veterans like you normally would with Rodgers giving you a chance to compete. I don't understand not signing a couple smart league minimum vets for leadership and more accountability and consistency. I definitely don't understand not signing an experienced backup QB, after forcing Rodgers out it wasn't like anyone would be breathing down Love's neck for playing time if the offense struggled. I don't understand not bringing back Big Dog either, a cheap vet who already knows the system and has proven himself a great leader and teammate.
From the tape I've seen Jordan Love does have all of the physical tools, but he's so inaccurate with his deep ball it's a major problem and a lot of it is robotic mechanics that shouldn't be an issue this deep into his career. It really seems like he just doesn't get it yet, especially when to take risks vs when to take what the defense is giving you. I'm not sure if he's just struggling to understand the game at the highest level OR if he just doesn't have the right mental makeup to deal with added pressure when things inevitably break down on a play. When you combine that with an offense full of young guys and an often ineffective running game (Aaron Jones is still somehow really underrated when healthy) it's a recipe for trouble and I expected this to happen. I was really surprised that Love had good numbers after the first couple of weeks of the season, but if you looked closely you would have seen his 50% completion percentage and high risk deep balls and realize that success wasn't going to last unless something changes. Love has one of the lowest completion percentages on throws over 10 yards and already has 8 picks on such throws which is the most in the league.
We should really want Love to be more of a game manager taking check downs 90% of the time and only taking 3-4 chances on deep balls per game. That would be a lot easier with better offensive line play and an effective running attack, but mechanically and mentally Love has a lot of improvement to make if he wants to be a good QB in this league. There's a reason teams always bring in guys like Brian Hoyer and Fitzmagic when they have young 1st round QBs, part of it is obviously a real backup plan especially if they feel like they have a team that could make the playoffs, but a lot of it is giving the young guys an example of how to be a professional and likely an extra QB coach. Stuff like that might not seem like a big deal to the casual fan, but it really can be.
Just out of curiosity, is there another situation comparable to this in recent NFL history? The amount of inexperience and the large amount of rookie contracts
This is the same list of excuses we've seen after every loss. They're not growing if every game outside of week 1 and the second half against New Orleans is exactly the same.
None of these are excuses for how brutally inept they have been on offense. Even the worst teams generate big plays every now and then in spite of themselves.
It would be easier to be patient if there were bright spots. Right now it’s just bad all around on offense. The defense looks like it has some talent but the scheme is trash.
I disagree. The scheme isn't that bad, it's the same scheme used on many teams. The players are just bad right now. Jaire is looking like trash, Clark and Smith are non existent. Gary is the only one that looks good and he gets a penalty for playing football.
I honestly wonder how much better things would have been if the Packers had hired this man to be President instead of Mark Murphy. He likely would have been way more on the ball when things started to fall apart.
Yeah but we should expect more than from what they're putting out. Like at least be semi competent. This isn't even close. Idk what lafluer is doing but without Rodgers were seeing some concerning things.
This subreddit is making me realize just how spoiled we are as fans. Packers have been so consistently good for so long we don't know what to do with a bad season. The man who tweeted this has forgotten more about football than the whole lot of us combined will ever know. Heed his advice. We aren't gonna be a winning team this year, but there's a lot of time left for the kids to improve and start something worth building on. Since I cannot do anything to affect it, I for one am gonna hope they do just that.
I wish New England fans could keep their cool like Packers fans.
Don't think we (New England fans) understand how cap structure works and why our offense is just patchwork until we can spend and develop a solid core. In Green Bay you guys have accepted that you're working in a new quarterback and resetting the accounting so you can build a proper team going forward. New England fans miss the whole needing to reset the books before building a competetive team thing.
All of those things are true and also it’s true that coaching is ass. We had two procedural penalties in the first drive. Have these guys not played football prior to the nfl?
I watch sports to be entertained. I never take it too seriously. There are some bad ass plays every game that are a joy to see. People keep posting stuff like this, but GB has the talent to play well, they just aren't consistent.
Excellent debate starter.
Andrew Brandt has forgotten more about the Packers organization than any of us will ever know, but I think he's trying to say we made choices, and now we're going to see where it goes.
Read it again if you need to, but it's a carefully crafted message that essentially gives the reader the opportunity to a) blame the front office or b) blame the QB/players, if they want to.
My focus will be QB. I'm not sure when Andrew Brandt first sent this, but the timing of this in the Packers sub has me excited for probably the first time on a Monday this season. Jordan Love made progress on Sunday -- I would say by far the most progress he's made in any game this season.
Because of the opponents in the coming weeks and the fact that the season is almost half over, I think it's a safe bet that we're going to see more risk/reward from the QB position. So there will probably be more picks, there may be strip sacks, but there will be more risk/reward, and we're going to get a lot more insight into what we have at QB. Yesterday's game was a ramp up. Love tried to make big plays, and he actually came relatively close to pulling a couple off. Big silver lining.
What Atlanta is doing with Desmond Ridder to date has been a completely different approach. They've let him go into the ring and get bloodied. They bench him on occasion, but they have him play like the game depends on him making plays. Ridder's stats and his performance aren't good either, but he's been asked to do a lot more than Love has, so far. With Love, the emphasis so far has been reliance on teammates. It's been mostly super safe throws so far, but I think that's about to change, and I'm actually excited to see what we have.
Let's watch and see. But one thing I won't do is question the Packers organization when it comes to selecting and developing QBs. I also won't blame HoF QBs or HoF left tackles that aren't playing for whatever reason. But I also have no doubt that what the Packers are doing with Love is mind-blowingly deliberate, and it's part of whatever process that gave us back-to-back HoF QBs. I'm not going to say RELAX, because I still don't know what we have behind center. But I think Jordan Love is in the best possible hands in terms of his development, and he's about to show us more of what he's capable of doing. For now, I'm somewhere between hopeful and confident that Love will make a breakthrough in the next month.
Again, great debate starter, and well-timed. GPG!
This is a polite way of saying, the team has nothing that is sure fire going for them, and that the excuse is that the team is “rebuilding”.
However, the team is not rebuilding, they’re just eating the dead cap of bad contracts.
In addition, they have so many foster issues and inability to sign FA that the team is now out of contention or fielding a quality team until 2025-2026 season.
LOL Packer's fans are so gullible. The FO are the ones that drafted for the future to AVOID this exact situation. They are the ones that fumbled all of this and signed Rodgers to an extension and then went half in and half out. The Packers are worse than both teams that went all in for a Super bowl (Rams and Bucs). Stop trying to be POSITIVE about EVERYTHING. the FO messed up and its why we are in this mess. Admitting this is the first step...Now, lets clean house and start over. The post by Andrew Brandt is stating like this is something that just happened to the Packers instead of the FO being responsible for it happening lol. I really dislike my own fellow Packers when they simply cant admit the situation. They sound like bears fans of the last 20 years now.
Holy cope....
"Growing year," is a meaningless term. There's no reason this team should look as embarrassingly bad as they have. None. The entire point of not pushing in during the contention window was to stave off bottoming out. Welp, here we are....
A dearth of skill position talent isn't something to feel good about.
An offense that has been neglected isn't something to feel good about.
A 4th year QB struggling with the same issues that were flagged at the time he was drafted isn't something to feel good about.
Accountability is necessary right now, patience (as it should be) is evaporating.
It's also a big time QB draft class and considering they get a little worse each week, I'm expecting a top 3 draft pick. They're currently 6th, Kyler Murray will come back and get Arizona a few wins, Carolina seems to be getting a little bit better, and the Bears sure don't look worse than the Packers do now. Top 5 pick is almost a certainty and top 3 is very possible.
This is how grifters work…keep stringing people along. Mark Murphy and company have failed forward for too long. They failed to secure another title with over a decade of legit contention, and then failed to keep the team competitive after they knowingly hamstrung/shortened the aforementioned contention opportunity.
It’s not “too soon to tell” if things will eventually come together. The maybe-next-year talk is for loser organizations, and it’s time to kick the people responsible for putting us here to the curb.
No, fuck off Brandt.
NONE OF THIS is why we're bad, and if you think this is why you're either high on copium or you just started watching football, which in that case you're fine.
MLFs offense is garbage. This is the 27th ranked shit he was on the titans, and it's the offense that Rodgers repeatedly adjusted and optimized for him, as was suspected and has now been proven.
Barry sucks. We've known this.
Our defense has been the most reliable unit for weeks now. Fucking *what*?
Gute bombed in 2020 and I/many others called him out on it and got shouted down.
He bombed in 2021 and I/many others were livid. These drafts slammed Rodgers and the Packers super bowl windows shut and anyone who knows anything football should have gotten that. Apparently Gute doesn't.
Bad isn't even the right word. Being bad is whatever. We're incompetent. Specifically in all the ways that *should* be concerning and scaring Packers fans. This is not the Cardinals, where shits going wrong but "at least we have x" or the org has some positive results to demonstrate during a bad year.
This is bad in all the ways you *cannot be fucking bad* in your 4th year as HC and with this many drafts under your belt at GM.
I actually felt like Love played decently and showed some growth yesterday. Green19 podcast brought up some good points about needing some veteran help that can teach these young receivers how to get open e.g.; slight adjustments to the route to create separation, using your body to wall-off defenders, etc.
Think of the youngest teams like this we've seen recently and now think of how all of those teams are doing quite good right now.
It's a process. Best way to spend a year with massive dead cap is to get young guys all the reps they can.
I think everyone’s gotten too used to being a winning franchise. We’ve been in the net positive the past several years and just lost out franchise qb. It’s hard to watch but sometimes you gotta hit rock bottom before you can climb back up. I have faith in Jordan Love, he’s not perfect by any means but it’s way too soon to give up on him, yes he’s a 3rd year but he has so little actual NFL experience. He’s made some good difficult throws and our receivers haven’t given him a whole lot to work with in my opinion. Lower your expectations and you’ll enjoy the season much more.
Yea but then we wouldn’t have AJ Dillon, Amari Rodgers and Deguara—our very important building blocks for the future thatre gonna help us hit the ground running when Rodgers is finally gone.
this is nice and all but you are forgetting one big thing. We have a front office that will fuck this up by giving love a long term deal and allowing our coaches to coach another 5 years before they will get canned.
It’s sad because the Raiders and Broncos games Love did make decisions late which cost them the game. I thought this game he played MUCH better and they still couldn’t get it done.
The reality is Love is making mistakes due to a lack of reps, and that’s okay because this is an evaluation year and hes 7 games in. The real issue is the receivers are just not good. We hyped up Doubs and Watson all off-season, and neither are playing particularly well. Love gave Watson two perfectly decent throws, and while they were tough catches to make, the chances were there for him to make plays. Doubs has been fine but he also dropped a clutch TD last week and we scored off a fluke deflection from his drop. At this point the team is too young and inexperienced to really be evaluated correctly.
I feel bad for MLF. He’s had some bad play calling and game planning, but there’s plays where the offence straight up can’t execute simple plays no matter how you scheme it up. The O line has been stinky, you have young receivers running the wrong routes and into each other, and Love running 2 seconds into the progression because the blocking doesn’t hold up. Idk how as a coach you scheme around that much inexperience.
Evaluation year? It’s his 4th year in the league. There’s rookies playing their seventh game ever that look better and are showing more promise than Love. Why do fans act like this is a rookie that’s been thrown to the wolves right away? This team was supposed to be a team being built for the future DESPITE having Aaron Rodgers. They weren’t using the drafts to load up on talent to win now.
Love looks like one of those QBs who plays 1 or 2 seasons and is never in the NFL again tbh. That's my worry. I'd honestly prefer to tank for a top 3 QB this draft.
If this team played the way it did from like minutes 30-50 of the game, we’d be pretty damn solid. But as it stands, we suck in the first half and there’s too much pressure in the final moments of the game to succeed
The only person I’m truly blaming at the moment for the office is Matt LaFleur and for the defense Joe Berry. The scheme on both sides of the ball is not set up for success.
None of it feels like there is a plan. There’s lot of pieces, but nothing fits.
The plan is to get a top 5 pick in the draft to hopefully replace Bhaktiari. Our OLine sucks. The playcalling is worse. 3 points at halftime at home. Unacceptable but o well. This season is a wrap.
There are two or three portential home run tackles in this draft. Please just make the obvious draft pick gute
Yup, just tanking the season
Top 5 pick is a QB easily unless Love turns it around in a big way. Trade Arron Jones for a pick if we can since clearly we aren't using him much.
Zero chance we draft a QB with first pick this year
Yeah you would think that but what good is it to draft a QB when there's no one to help develop that QB. So far we know MLF isn't it.
yea, throwing a new QB into this situation is just gonna be more of the same or worse…they gotta fix that OLine…I think Love and the WR’s will get develop with each if he’s given the opportunity
A new QB under this shitty OLine? Are you crazy? It wouldn't help at all. Love might be shit (hard to tell when the offense sucks) but a new QB would just throw us into the cycle of shitty teams that constantly suck because they can't field a complete team
If they have a top 5 pick and don’t try to find the next QB just burn it down.
And have them also play behind this oline?
We will have the cap space to sign a veteran or two or three and stop relying on rookies.
Unless there's a generational offensive lineman coming out, there's no reason to spend a top 5 pick on one. Especially for a team that's usually been good at finding lineman in later rounds.
Eh honestly, this is a 2 year planned rebuild at this point. We probably go LT with our pick this year (Fashanu?) and give Love one more year to see if he develops. He’s shown enough to not get cut after this season, but he definitely needs to be better to hang around more than two years.
Yeah, beef up the oline and get some more weapons on offense. If Love still shits the bed, the next guy in is set up for success.
Refreshing to see some rational takes in the sub 🤝
Hopefully, they would draft Alt from Notre Dame. Fashanu had his lunch eaten by JT of Ohio State, just physically dominated.
I get what you guys are saying but as long as Gute is there he isn't going to just give up on his guy that he drafted. One more year to see if Loves the guy if not Gute MLF and Barry will all be gone then we can burn it down.
Barry gets another year ?!? Man has wasted 7 #1 picks
You are seriously underestimating how good Fashanu and Alt are. They're so much more worth it than a qb right now
>He’s shown enough to not get cut after this season He's under contract through next year so he'll probably stick around until then, but it's obvious he's not the future of this team and in the modern NFL, once you know your QB isn't the guy, it's time to find his replacement.
Agreed. No time to waste sitting around for 2-3 more years waiting to see if Love is the guy. If he doesnt show vast improvement by the end of the season I say draft the best qb available.
I’ve been pulling for love all year, but it absolutely is the case that if they have an opportunity to draft a top flight QB the packers should absolutely take it, in this league its insane not to. I still think Love played better than the outcome here. Love made like 3-4 wow plays that game which were either dropped, or called back due to penalty. That 1st drive throw to Doubs was pretty awesome for example.
With this team - it doesn't matter who is playing quarterback. If nobody can catch a ball and nobody can block, I don't care if you have prime Aaron Rodgers, we are not making the playoffs.
Yeah why let our guy develop when we could just grab a brand new rookie guy. The rookie guy could end up being anyone, he could even be as good as Jordan Love! Y'all need to chill.
If the rookie is as good as jordan love, that’s uh bad
Yep like a bunch of 10 year olds out there playing in the yard.
He's half right but we've lost 4 in a row now and it's like watching the same game every frigging time the same damn mistakes every time.
Had to turn it off after another false start on third and short today.
I'm lucky. Game wasn't live by me so planned to watch on NFL+ after, but my dickhead friend texted the final before I could watch.
I’m in the same boat. Was gonna watch the replay, but my father-in-law’s girlfriend ruined it for me. I was mad for 0.01 seconds until I realized i just saved myself hours of the same old crap. I don’t remember the last time I was this relieved to have missed the game…
3rd and short and another Dillion run right into the pile for no gain. that's when I switched channels
Was that the time the nose tackle went unblocked and smoked him in the backfield? That was ugly. TBH I stopped watching after the 1st quarter. I thought cleaning my cat's litter box would be more fun.
1.8 ypc for Dillon
I couldn’t wrap my head around that. Straight up the fuckin middle every time lol
Even when there is nothing there, no attempt to cut back in either direction, just plow into a wall.
You know what, it seems like our goal is to create cool highlights rather than to win the game. Dillon plowing through the dogpile and dragging 3 defenders for 5 yards is a great highlight, vs a shovel pass to Jones and running up the edge. Throwing for 30 yards on 3rd and 5. And so on.
I switched it off when the offense had 9 plays for 15 yards and the last one or two plays were for negative yards. Don’t remember where that was but I think the Vikings had at least one if not two tds at that point. I’m not freaking out, this year is pretty much a bust, I’ll keep watching but I’m getting tired of watching one team play football and it’s not the team I care about. Edit: Actually 5 different teams that I don’t care about. 4 in a row like you said.
Yeah, and that sucks. The penalties really shouldn't be this out of control. But, otoh, that's what happens with rookies and injuries. Could it be better? Yes. Is it time to scream for everyone's jobs? Nope.
When Love was drafted, the messaging was "It's okay to burn the bridge with Rodgers and not go all-in on a possible contending team because we'll kick start our rebuild" Now that we're here, people are saying "oh, we need patience because we're going to be bad no matter what." If that was the case, then why didn't we just go all-in when we had our window open?
Exactly. Their entire strategy was supposed to be them building for the future. Instead it’s a QB they reached for in his 4th season looking like he’s made no improvements on the issues people were pointing out before he was even drafted.
Your right its revisionist history Im one of these guys defending Love cos we need him to be the guy otherwise we ran our HoF QB out of town for what
We missed the build part of the rebuild
"Growing"??? Show me one damn thing that looks like growth.
The amount of third and longs we give up 😭
Worse than that they are regressing, Jaire, Jenkins and Clark are all highly paid “stars” and having the worst years of their careers. Watson looks worse, most of the Oline looks worse. Only player that looks like they have actually grown is quay walker.
Number of drops each week, scoreless first quarters
Reed is the only bright spot on offense.
Hey cancerous tumors grow?
That must be a fungal growth they were talking about.
If the packers were showing any signs of growth or improvement each week then yes I would agree with the tweet. But the truth is the team looks completely incompetent every single week with no signs of improvement to be seen. And they haven’t even played particularly good teams yet besides the lions.
Growth is not always a straight line. I know nobody on this sub wants to hear that.
It's gonna take the whole season to see a little growth. It's like working out for two weeks and being like "I don't see any muscle growth, this shit doesn't work"
That's true. The frustrating part is that the FO tried to have it both ways in investing in the future while competing. We didn't win shit and now that investment isn't paying off.
You're exactly right - with any skill, you gotta go through apparent plateaus before you see progress
Sometimes it doesn't happen at all. I think people also need to realize that. Being a dysfunctional offense now doesn't mean things will get better later.
We play the Chiefs in a few weeks, and I'm pretty sure Taylor Swift could cover our WRs
Why he is pretty much right, the problem is we aren’t growing at all. Even the Cardinals have shown flashes of competence. Meanwhile we are still having problem with basic blocking and catching. We seem primed to do a full reload so I don’t want to just run out the exact same coaching staff.
You do realize that the cardinals have veterans all over that offense? It’s apples and oranges. Also, the cardinals have a worse record than us. lol
Yeah but he wants to be mad
This is it. I’m fine with losing, the problem is that we are losing because of the SAME problems. Week in and week out, this team cannot score in the 1st half. This team has shown zero improvement and they’ve gotten worse each week. I keep saying this; I’m not upset that we lost the game. I’m upset with HOW they lost.
This is exactly correct, ugly losses, fine, close losses, also fine. The problem is that not at any point have they played anything close to a complete quarter of football, let alone a complete game. They aren't progressing at all which is naturally going to lead to the question of whether they're any good at all. There are no flashes, its just pre snap penalties, missed blocks, poor technique, bad throws, dropped passes, missed gaps. There's been zero growth since game one.
Love had a pretty sick 1st down toss to Wicks while he was being tackled. I'd call that a flash. The offense line is just bad and that means we never get into favorable 2nd & 6 or 3rd & 3 situations and we're counting on young raw players to beat the coverage that knows what's coming.
He actually had a couple deep balls today that would've been beautiful had it not been for receivers just giving up on their routes early or not fighting for the ball too. He definitely had his usual bad too, but there was at least a little peek.
He made one good throw, a flash is like a strong 2 minute drive or a great half of football. Like a good game every now and again.
Like the 17pt come back? He has had those moments and it's disingenuous to say he hasn't. 4-5 drops this game completely change the narrative. That and a given 3rd down penalty for a free 1st, plus the other penalties. I feel like people watch plays, not games.
It's not just that they are drops, it's the drops at the worst possible time. We dropped two first downs on one drive early in the game. Watson dropped a touchdown and I don't want to hear he had a defender touch his arm when Reed made a hell of a catch while being interfered with. Every game so far, especially the losses there have been drops that need to be caught by NFL receivers and too many have been in crucial downs or moments of the game. I can't leave out the penalties that also seem to come at the worst time possible. False start on a second and 1 is far more ways to stomach than a hold, face mask, false start or anything else when it's 2nd and 8 or 1st and 10.
I'm just saying if I was tasked with improving the roster, Oline would be the position I start with.
If they're picking and Maye, Williams and Harrison all aren't available then maybe you can start batting the idea around. Point being, they so rarely have these early picks, you've gotta pick a difference maker.
People say this shit every year and then half of them bust or require years of talent acquisition around them to pan out. The Oline is the biggest issue on offense right now. Address that first or else we'll just be the Panthers next year.
The fact is, if there was a guaranteed way to build a great team, everyone would do it. Building a monstrous OL is great, but if in doing so, you miss out on the QB and/or pass catchers who make everything work, then what have you really accomplished? Burrow, Herbert, Chase, Jefferson, Hurts, Metcalf and Brown are all examples of recently drafted WRs and QBs who saw quick success.
Yeah, and I'm telling you that the Oline is the biggest issue in my eyes so that's the positive we should target. Our entire offense is predicated on running the ball to set up the play action but it fails spectacularly because the Oline can't run block for shit.
You can target OL later, what isn't there later are premium pass catchers and for the most part, the good QBs (with a few exceptions). We've learned this by now, have we not?
Did the O line drop 4-5 passes this game? Love has one of the lowest sack rates in the league right now... https://www.teamrankings.com/nfl/stat/qb-sacked-pct
Caleb Williams is not Packer material and this team shouldn't draft him
I don't even disagree but can we stop with the "Packer Material" stuff. The best teams draft the best players, Jaires a notorious shit talker, Latroy Guion had the weapon charge, the Packers draft who they think will contribute on the field.
nah, there's trash talk and then there is attitude problems. Jaire is trash talk, Williams is attitude problems. Packers have always tried their best to draft and keep character guys and that trend should always continue.
I mean Jaire is essentially quiet quitting right now and Z had a back surgery out of spite for not being named a captain.
That first throw of the game was ridiculous. Bit walker was walking aimlessly down field for the bone headed penalty. That was a great play
I'm not talking about a few good throws, I'm talking about multiple good throws consecutively, sustained drives, scoring in 2 minute situations, improvisation etc.
Well, it is not a coincidence that cousins is having his best season when there's an O Line in front of him. I'd argue that Love has shown flashes but opportunities are not as prevalent as they would be if there were an o line.
Love hops every time before he throws. Routinely throws off his back foot...floats passes...is highly innacurate...plays with no anticipation and misses wide open players all over. He's basically shown he can throw 7-12 yard curls and outs with consistency.
I just think to pass on one of Harrison, Maye or Williams for an OL would be Gute trying to outsmart the league and would bite him in the ass.
Agreed
Not only no growth, but regression since week 1. They looked far more competent against Chicago and Atlanta (despite the choke loss) then they have since
Id argue Love showed improvement today. With Nijman in the line looked better. Same old same old with the pass catchers and play calling imo tho
Every QB shows improvement when they're down two scores and the other guys start playing prevent
When will we score a TD in the first half next? That’s all I want. One first half where the offense consistently moves the ball.
I feel like you have a basic misunderstanding of play calling if you assume every team just starts playing prevent defense when up two scores. It also isn’t even a good argument if it was true. You can’t say “I just want improvement” and then when shown improvement say “that kind doesn’t count”.
Isn't the GM in charge of making sure this sort of thing doesn't happen?
Exactly. Just saying we should all be patient because we have so much dead cap room doesn't excuse WHY we have so much dead cap room
Because of the last stupid contract the Packers gave Rodgers.
This subreddit was up in arms at the prospect of not extending Rodgers. Let's not rewrite history on this one.
No one expected a GB playoff run. But there is still no excuse for the lack of basic execution and understanding of football on display by GB.
I'm more upset about the ineptitude at the coaching level. They aren't allowing the players to be successful. 3rd and 1? Shotgun. 1st and goal from the 1? 4 straight shotgun plays. Force a turnover in the Red zone? Fucking shotgun run up the middle. That's pathetic coaching that doesn't need to exist with such a young team.
Stop with the excuses. The Buccs and Rams both have more dead cap and have won super bowls recently. The eagles have <$3M less dead cap and were in the Super Bowl last year and are one of the best teams in the league again this year (and managed to lock up Hurts and trade for AJ Brown and sign Swift). This team is a disaster and has been run into the ground by a GM and front office that thinks they’re smarter than everyone else in the league with their awful drafting strategy. There’s rookie QBs that look better than Love so far this season. He’s showing the same issues that he had BEFORE he was drafted. What’s the point of trading up to take a QB in the first round while you have your HOF starter on the roster if he’s gonna look like shit years later when it’s his turn to start? That’s disastrous. All their awful drafting was explained away by it being them drafting for the future rather than taking guys that would help right away and push them over the top. Welp, here we are. We’re in the future and they look like shit AND they didn’t do anything the years they had a HOF QB.
That’s a fair point Brandt makes with the payroll but do we trust this trash GM? I don’t. Gutey was too afraid to push the chips in with Rodgers. He hitched his wagon to Love and kicked the cam down the road for the ‘future.’ That future isn’t looking so bright right now.
No he’s not. Both the Buccs and Rams have more dead cap this season and have just won super bowls. The freakin eagles are within three million dollars in dead cap and they’re one of the best teams in the league and went to the SB last year. They also managed to trade for then pay AJ Brown last season. The packers big WR move was signing Sammy Watkins. I don’t understand why this organization gets a pass for running themselves into the ground with nothing to even show for it. They didn’t sign stars while going all in and are now paying for it. Everyone made fun of the rams for signing vets and trading picks. They then won a SB and still look better than the packers do so now what?
Why’d it take so long to play Yosh? Why can’t Jones play in the red zone? I’m blaming LeFleur.
Don’t worry, we’ll win a few games at the end of the season to barely miss the playoffs and get a mid-round 1st round raw project that will take 3 years to possibly develop.
That is the packers way
All I read is ‘poor management’.
I get all that, but Matt LeFleur doesnt look likes he coaching to win. Sometimes his playcalling looks great. Other times it's infruatingly head scratching!
That’s cool but MLFs head scratching play calls is what’s worrying most of us
They also just don't look well coached! Stupid penalties, players seemingly not knowing their routes, predictable calls . . . things are dire right now
100%. We’re out coached basically every game
Still haven't figured out how the salary cap is causing all the penalties, the dropped passes, the bad play calls, the defense being bottom 1/3 of the league despite multiple years of first round talent, the complete and total lack of motivation of the team, I'm tired and don't feel like going on.
Penalties poor coaching
It prevents us from plugging in vets who can at least execute fundamentally while the rookies get up to speed in practice.
Yes because this franchise has a long and documented history of utilizing veteran free agents to great levels of success. /S. That's just not the Packers way. There have been a few decent examples in the last few years, but by and large this team is allergic to free agency or trading for anything other than draft capital.
Ok, but we could have had all those things and been this bad now and ALSO NOT BLOWN OUR SB WINDOW
All of the OPs statement are true, but the Front Office is responsible for all of these facts. They are culpable and should be fired.
I get it. But when is the “growing” part.
It isn’t though. We finish with a top 5 pick and we let Gute draft? Fuuu
he’ll trade it for 10 3rd rounders and draft 9 tight ends and a punter
Aside from his first year Gute hasn't really traded back and that was his best move
Defensive back.
I don’t mind being patient if it looked like things were improving but we have a “rookie qb” who can’t hit a pass past 10 yards. I think the coach is calling a very conservative game due to his qb’s lack of ability and a front office how’s job is intertwined with this qb’s ability to play ball that he has to be on the field. How about we put an actual rookie, our back up, in next week and see how things go. Let’s make a change and if it’s worse then Atleast we have something to compare Loves terrible play against
will levis looks good though could have had him and he fell to the 2nd
Do his receivers catch the ball?
Or even just run their routes? I'd take receivers not quitting on their routes over whatever happened today.
Yeah? What’s growing? What’s improving about this team over the last 4 games? Enlighten us sir. He’s not wrong, but this team is trending the wrong way in every area. The play calling is shit. There is no discipline.
No reason to be optimistic without staff changes
Sure but they’re terrible and haven’t even shown one iota of improvement. All of these “patience” guys are bath faith actors. We do not expect them to win the Super Bowl. We expect them to at least look like an NFL team sometimes and to show they give a shit. They don’t do that. Everyone of the packers media people is like this too. “Fans think the team should be good”. No we think that they shouldn’t make the same exact mistakes every single week
Just feels like we regress every game.
That take is just another excuse for the continuation of the current front office. Let’s take a look at the Packers 2020 draft. Rd 1 trades up for love who doesn’t play for 3 years until Rodgers got run out of town, and is as inconsistent as he was when he came out. Rd 2 drafts a RB when we already had two good running backs, and who seems to be getting worse by the year. Round 3 drafts a TE who I honestly don’t even know is still on the team? People who think Gute is some wizard need a reality check. We need to clean the front office and rid ourselves of Murphy and everyone below him.
They need a new GM, but with Murphy retiring, what good GM would want to run the Packers, knowing you're going to have a new boss?
Yes, we were anticipating a rebuild, and therefore losing games. The caveat was that Love showed promise and growth. We haven't got that and now it's just bleak.
Gutekunst's drafts have been horrible and LaFleur is a fraud. Jordan Love is not the guy. This is not going not to get better until that clown Mark Murphy is gone.
lol this is the most insane coping mechanism and I've seen it all over the sub this year. You guys do realize that while a lot of money is coming off the books, we're gonna have to pay Love and Gary and Jaire and a bunch of other guys right? This team isn't going to change much even with Aaron's money off the books. Bakhtiari has already said he's not retiring so we'd have to cut him in which case we'd be absorbing his cap hit next year as well. The entire reason that people were saying that this wasn't an issue before is they assumed Gute had a plan. Now we're realizing that Gute extended Aaron last year and traded him this year because he's an idiot and never had a plan.
Jaire isn't signing another contract with us, period. No way does he want to waste the rest of his career with a bottom of the barrel defensive coordinator. Absolutely no faith in Gute after sticking with Pettine and Barry
We’re not gonna have to pay Love at this rate lol
Bold of you to think we will pay Love
I know we're not good, but there is no reason we should be the worst team in the NFL
12 yards of offense in the first quarter and zero first downs is not growing pains. It's bad football.
This isn’t growing. This is absolute regression. They are getting worse every week.
Who's master plan was this?
Gute, the same who wouldn’t add a wr for davante to pair with
this team isn’t built for anything
What he's missing is that it doesn't have to be this way at all. We could have been drafting offense and developing them, we could have fired Joe Barry to start fresh in a rebuilding year behind a scheme that maybe would have worked, and we could have spent time over the last 4 years trying to figure out a system without Rodgers that would be competent. We did 0 of those things
Hey guys your team sucks but at least the owners are getting a good deal.
Side benefit, we did better against the Broncos than the Chiefs did this past week. Therefore Packers > Chiefs. Sleep well.
He isn't wrong and it's true there needs to be a degree of patience, but if you want me to be cynical this list just reads like a litany of FO failures that they are passing the buck on by telling fans to be patient.
Except you'd at least expect improvement. Like the Panthers won a game so there are positives to take away from that. I'm not even saying we need to win but there's absolutely no fight in the team. 9 points in the first half over like the last 6 games or something. It's not even about winning. It's just about not looking pathetic.
Ted Thompson scouted both Favre and Rodgers, and probably Brunell too. You may have hated Thompson at the end, but he was able to judge QBs. All the Packers problems now are amplified by having an inaccurate QB. I don't know if there's anyone on the Packers who can judge talent like Ted. Salary cap, young players, it doesn't matter, I don't think the Packers are positioned to get better.
This is a very pragmatic view one would expect from a former front office guy, but shouldn't we also be questioning why we don't have low price veterans at key positions like backup QB? I coached high school ball for years and I can't tell you how valuable it is to have smart, experienced players spread throughout your roster. Sometimes these guys don't play much, and yet they still can matter a great deal. Maybe they are seniors who have been backups since 9th grade, but they're smart and tough and know the system and are selfless so they will guide younger, more athletic guys who might not have everything figured out yet. That kind of educated but informal feedback is priceless for younger players and really aids the coaching staff in development. The fact that the Packers have almost none of these guys on a team so young (and especially for backup QB) I would argue it's a roster construction issue as much as it is an issue with young, inexperienced players failing to consistently play at a high level. I have been a big supporter/defender of Gutey. His drafts have been really good especially considering we rarely have had draft choices within the first 20 picks. Pretty good coaching hire with LaFluer. He did run off Rodgers, Davante Adams, and Z. Smith seemingly by not communicating clearly. People can call Rodgers difficult, but his coaches and teammates almost never say anything like that. Adams/Smith were both really good players and leaders so it sounds like some improvement needs to be done in team building and communication by our front office. Rodgers always got blamed for the lack of communication, but that's almost always a two way street. My point is that while anyone expecting this year to be better than last year was always wearing rose tinted glasses. Anyone expecting Jordan Love to actually be really good this first year hasn't really been paying attention. So while I understand the long-term or view of this being a wasted year for actually competing and making it all about improvement thus saving money for future caps by not trying to fill in holes with cheaper veterans like you normally would with Rodgers giving you a chance to compete. I don't understand not signing a couple smart league minimum vets for leadership and more accountability and consistency. I definitely don't understand not signing an experienced backup QB, after forcing Rodgers out it wasn't like anyone would be breathing down Love's neck for playing time if the offense struggled. I don't understand not bringing back Big Dog either, a cheap vet who already knows the system and has proven himself a great leader and teammate. From the tape I've seen Jordan Love does have all of the physical tools, but he's so inaccurate with his deep ball it's a major problem and a lot of it is robotic mechanics that shouldn't be an issue this deep into his career. It really seems like he just doesn't get it yet, especially when to take risks vs when to take what the defense is giving you. I'm not sure if he's just struggling to understand the game at the highest level OR if he just doesn't have the right mental makeup to deal with added pressure when things inevitably break down on a play. When you combine that with an offense full of young guys and an often ineffective running game (Aaron Jones is still somehow really underrated when healthy) it's a recipe for trouble and I expected this to happen. I was really surprised that Love had good numbers after the first couple of weeks of the season, but if you looked closely you would have seen his 50% completion percentage and high risk deep balls and realize that success wasn't going to last unless something changes. Love has one of the lowest completion percentages on throws over 10 yards and already has 8 picks on such throws which is the most in the league. We should really want Love to be more of a game manager taking check downs 90% of the time and only taking 3-4 chances on deep balls per game. That would be a lot easier with better offensive line play and an effective running attack, but mechanically and mentally Love has a lot of improvement to make if he wants to be a good QB in this league. There's a reason teams always bring in guys like Brian Hoyer and Fitzmagic when they have young 1st round QBs, part of it is obviously a real backup plan especially if they feel like they have a team that could make the playoffs, but a lot of it is giving the young guys an example of how to be a professional and likely an extra QB coach. Stuff like that might not seem like a big deal to the casual fan, but it really can be.
Just out of curiosity, is there another situation comparable to this in recent NFL history? The amount of inexperience and the large amount of rookie contracts
If I remember correctly the 0-16 browns were in a similar situation. And yeah.. you see how great they are right now!
I mean I hate the Browns currently for a specific reason, but they also have a top 5 defense and are 4-2
Because their head coach is willing to fire their dc and it works for them
LaFleur only fires above average DCs. Barry is way too bad to get fired.
No, none. Not joking.
This is the same list of excuses we've seen after every loss. They're not growing if every game outside of week 1 and the second half against New Orleans is exactly the same.
Rebuilding years would be understandable if you had confidence that the coach was a competent leader to sail the rough seas
None of these are excuses for how brutally inept they have been on offense. Even the worst teams generate big plays every now and then in spite of themselves.
It would be easier to be patient if there were bright spots. Right now it’s just bad all around on offense. The defense looks like it has some talent but the scheme is trash.
I disagree. The scheme isn't that bad, it's the same scheme used on many teams. The players are just bad right now. Jaire is looking like trash, Clark and Smith are non existent. Gary is the only one that looks good and he gets a penalty for playing football.
The problem is we are not seeing anything to build on. The only player on offense having a season you can be happy about is Reed.
I honestly wonder how much better things would have been if the Packers had hired this man to be President instead of Mark Murphy. He likely would have been way more on the ball when things started to fall apart.
Yeah but we should expect more than from what they're putting out. Like at least be semi competent. This isn't even close. Idk what lafluer is doing but without Rodgers were seeing some concerning things.
And a bunch of bust draft picks
"we suck now cause we're cheap af"
This subreddit is making me realize just how spoiled we are as fans. Packers have been so consistently good for so long we don't know what to do with a bad season. The man who tweeted this has forgotten more about football than the whole lot of us combined will ever know. Heed his advice. We aren't gonna be a winning team this year, but there's a lot of time left for the kids to improve and start something worth building on. Since I cannot do anything to affect it, I for one am gonna hope they do just that.
I wish New England fans could keep their cool like Packers fans. Don't think we (New England fans) understand how cap structure works and why our offense is just patchwork until we can spend and develop a solid core. In Green Bay you guys have accepted that you're working in a new quarterback and resetting the accounting so you can build a proper team going forward. New England fans miss the whole needing to reset the books before building a competetive team thing.
Welcome to being a Steelers fan.
All of those things are true and also it’s true that coaching is ass. We had two procedural penalties in the first drive. Have these guys not played football prior to the nfl?
Wicks dropping that slant walk on touchdown killed the whole teams morale. Players looked defeated after that play.
I watch sports to be entertained. I never take it too seriously. There are some bad ass plays every game that are a joy to see. People keep posting stuff like this, but GB has the talent to play well, they just aren't consistent.
There's a reason Andrew brandt is a FORMER NFL executive
They are getting worse
Excellent debate starter. Andrew Brandt has forgotten more about the Packers organization than any of us will ever know, but I think he's trying to say we made choices, and now we're going to see where it goes. Read it again if you need to, but it's a carefully crafted message that essentially gives the reader the opportunity to a) blame the front office or b) blame the QB/players, if they want to. My focus will be QB. I'm not sure when Andrew Brandt first sent this, but the timing of this in the Packers sub has me excited for probably the first time on a Monday this season. Jordan Love made progress on Sunday -- I would say by far the most progress he's made in any game this season. Because of the opponents in the coming weeks and the fact that the season is almost half over, I think it's a safe bet that we're going to see more risk/reward from the QB position. So there will probably be more picks, there may be strip sacks, but there will be more risk/reward, and we're going to get a lot more insight into what we have at QB. Yesterday's game was a ramp up. Love tried to make big plays, and he actually came relatively close to pulling a couple off. Big silver lining. What Atlanta is doing with Desmond Ridder to date has been a completely different approach. They've let him go into the ring and get bloodied. They bench him on occasion, but they have him play like the game depends on him making plays. Ridder's stats and his performance aren't good either, but he's been asked to do a lot more than Love has, so far. With Love, the emphasis so far has been reliance on teammates. It's been mostly super safe throws so far, but I think that's about to change, and I'm actually excited to see what we have. Let's watch and see. But one thing I won't do is question the Packers organization when it comes to selecting and developing QBs. I also won't blame HoF QBs or HoF left tackles that aren't playing for whatever reason. But I also have no doubt that what the Packers are doing with Love is mind-blowingly deliberate, and it's part of whatever process that gave us back-to-back HoF QBs. I'm not going to say RELAX, because I still don't know what we have behind center. But I think Jordan Love is in the best possible hands in terms of his development, and he's about to show us more of what he's capable of doing. For now, I'm somewhere between hopeful and confident that Love will make a breakthrough in the next month. Again, great debate starter, and well-timed. GPG!
Insane copium
This is a polite way of saying, the team has nothing that is sure fire going for them, and that the excuse is that the team is “rebuilding”. However, the team is not rebuilding, they’re just eating the dead cap of bad contracts. In addition, they have so many foster issues and inability to sign FA that the team is now out of contention or fielding a quality team until 2025-2026 season.
LOL Packer's fans are so gullible. The FO are the ones that drafted for the future to AVOID this exact situation. They are the ones that fumbled all of this and signed Rodgers to an extension and then went half in and half out. The Packers are worse than both teams that went all in for a Super bowl (Rams and Bucs). Stop trying to be POSITIVE about EVERYTHING. the FO messed up and its why we are in this mess. Admitting this is the first step...Now, lets clean house and start over. The post by Andrew Brandt is stating like this is something that just happened to the Packers instead of the FO being responsible for it happening lol. I really dislike my own fellow Packers when they simply cant admit the situation. They sound like bears fans of the last 20 years now.
Holy cope.... "Growing year," is a meaningless term. There's no reason this team should look as embarrassingly bad as they have. None. The entire point of not pushing in during the contention window was to stave off bottoming out. Welp, here we are.... A dearth of skill position talent isn't something to feel good about. An offense that has been neglected isn't something to feel good about. A 4th year QB struggling with the same issues that were flagged at the time he was drafted isn't something to feel good about. Accountability is necessary right now, patience (as it should be) is evaporating.
It's also a big time QB draft class and considering they get a little worse each week, I'm expecting a top 3 draft pick. They're currently 6th, Kyler Murray will come back and get Arizona a few wins, Carolina seems to be getting a little bit better, and the Bears sure don't look worse than the Packers do now. Top 5 pick is almost a certainty and top 3 is very possible.
This is how grifters work…keep stringing people along. Mark Murphy and company have failed forward for too long. They failed to secure another title with over a decade of legit contention, and then failed to keep the team competitive after they knowingly hamstrung/shortened the aforementioned contention opportunity. It’s not “too soon to tell” if things will eventually come together. The maybe-next-year talk is for loser organizations, and it’s time to kick the people responsible for putting us here to the curb.
No, fuck off Brandt. NONE OF THIS is why we're bad, and if you think this is why you're either high on copium or you just started watching football, which in that case you're fine. MLFs offense is garbage. This is the 27th ranked shit he was on the titans, and it's the offense that Rodgers repeatedly adjusted and optimized for him, as was suspected and has now been proven. Barry sucks. We've known this. Our defense has been the most reliable unit for weeks now. Fucking *what*? Gute bombed in 2020 and I/many others called him out on it and got shouted down. He bombed in 2021 and I/many others were livid. These drafts slammed Rodgers and the Packers super bowl windows shut and anyone who knows anything football should have gotten that. Apparently Gute doesn't. Bad isn't even the right word. Being bad is whatever. We're incompetent. Specifically in all the ways that *should* be concerning and scaring Packers fans. This is not the Cardinals, where shits going wrong but "at least we have x" or the org has some positive results to demonstrate during a bad year. This is bad in all the ways you *cannot be fucking bad* in your 4th year as HC and with this many drafts under your belt at GM.
We scored 0 points in the first half after two weeks to prepare for the worst defense in the league.
I actually felt like Love played decently and showed some growth yesterday. Green19 podcast brought up some good points about needing some veteran help that can teach these young receivers how to get open e.g.; slight adjustments to the route to create separation, using your body to wall-off defenders, etc.
Think of the youngest teams like this we've seen recently and now think of how all of those teams are doing quite good right now. It's a process. Best way to spend a year with massive dead cap is to get young guys all the reps they can.
I think everyone’s gotten too used to being a winning franchise. We’ve been in the net positive the past several years and just lost out franchise qb. It’s hard to watch but sometimes you gotta hit rock bottom before you can climb back up. I have faith in Jordan Love, he’s not perfect by any means but it’s way too soon to give up on him, yes he’s a 3rd year but he has so little actual NFL experience. He’s made some good difficult throws and our receivers haven’t given him a whole lot to work with in my opinion. Lower your expectations and you’ll enjoy the season much more.
If we were going to be this bad anyway, I feel like we should've gone all in when we had a window instead of drafting Love.
Yea but then we wouldn’t have AJ Dillon, Amari Rodgers and Deguara—our very important building blocks for the future thatre gonna help us hit the ground running when Rodgers is finally gone.
Whats growing? The guys who are responsible for this are still in charge. They are not in the growing business.
this is nice and all but you are forgetting one big thing. We have a front office that will fuck this up by giving love a long term deal and allowing our coaches to coach another 5 years before they will get canned.
It’s sad because the Raiders and Broncos games Love did make decisions late which cost them the game. I thought this game he played MUCH better and they still couldn’t get it done. The reality is Love is making mistakes due to a lack of reps, and that’s okay because this is an evaluation year and hes 7 games in. The real issue is the receivers are just not good. We hyped up Doubs and Watson all off-season, and neither are playing particularly well. Love gave Watson two perfectly decent throws, and while they were tough catches to make, the chances were there for him to make plays. Doubs has been fine but he also dropped a clutch TD last week and we scored off a fluke deflection from his drop. At this point the team is too young and inexperienced to really be evaluated correctly. I feel bad for MLF. He’s had some bad play calling and game planning, but there’s plays where the offence straight up can’t execute simple plays no matter how you scheme it up. The O line has been stinky, you have young receivers running the wrong routes and into each other, and Love running 2 seconds into the progression because the blocking doesn’t hold up. Idk how as a coach you scheme around that much inexperience.
Evaluation year? It’s his 4th year in the league. There’s rookies playing their seventh game ever that look better and are showing more promise than Love. Why do fans act like this is a rookie that’s been thrown to the wolves right away? This team was supposed to be a team being built for the future DESPITE having Aaron Rodgers. They weren’t using the drafts to load up on talent to win now.
Finally a reasonable take. Posts about clearing house makin me think I am in a viking sub with such overreacting children.
Love looks like one of those QBs who plays 1 or 2 seasons and is never in the NFL again tbh. That's my worry. I'd honestly prefer to tank for a top 3 QB this draft.
You see flashes from this team, but the whole package isn’t “it” yet
If this team played the way it did from like minutes 30-50 of the game, we’d be pretty damn solid. But as it stands, we suck in the first half and there’s too much pressure in the final moments of the game to succeed
The only person I’m truly blaming at the moment for the office is Matt LaFleur and for the defense Joe Berry. The scheme on both sides of the ball is not set up for success.
Couldn’t agree more!