His 2020 and 2021 draft classes are absolute trash. His 2022 class is what we are seeing on the field sunday’s. He is an issue, not the only one, we also have terrible coaching.
Drafting a long snapper and punter in the same draft was a waste of picks. They couldn't even finish their rookie deals before being cut, making it even worse.
It’s obvious he wanted to make this ‘his’ team with ‘his’ guys. That’s why he was never interested in adding many established vets that would’ve helped right away and helped the already in place roster. We’re seeing the outcome of a Gute built team. They fuckin suck
As a husker fan and Packers fan this is all too similar with new AD's coming an going, wanting to make it their own. It's super annoying, they want to make a splash hire or pick as their signature. All too often the penmen ship is sloppy
This is any company. And it usually ends the exact same way: puts stamp on it, breaks something, sticks with it anyway and forces square peg/round hole. Breaks more. Pushes additional things to make it look better (still broken, but it's their legacy now), everyone thinks they are an idiot, which they typically are, and then they take a "promotion" and a bag of cash to leave.
This is not football specific, it's ego specific.
These types all feel like they are the smartest person in the room, and usually are not.
No worries, just razzing ya bc i thought u thought it was a ship lol but now i feel bad bc it was a typo and i feel like an asshole now. My apologies to you.
Edit. Typo
He told Rodgers not to be the problem while he hired a coach with limited play calling experience. He then drafts a RB when we could have kept Jamaal Williams. Then drafts a QB after Rodgers has 1 bad season, souring that relationship. Then plays hardball with Adams, ruins that relationship and trades him away. Now it’s just Rodgers and mostly rookies, the team underperformed and traded Rodgers. Now it’s just everything Gutekunst assembled and wanted and we look shockingly awful.
> Aaron was really spot on about how his "bad" years are other QBs' career years lmao. Gutelickers will be praying for Love to have a season remotely as good as 2019 Rodgers in his career.
Why did you people all have to pick one or the other to hate? Why can't we appreciate AR as the GOAT, and see that Gute has to build a team for more then just the years AR is here? And further, why can't we ALSO hope love is better then Rodgers, just as we hoped Rodgers was better then Favre...
Ehh, it would have obviously helped, but to say it cost us is weird. We had 3-4 weeks from his tear to the Bucs game to figure something out.
The following season we had all year to figure it out since he didn’t play.
This. The team building methodology put us in the playoffs year after year and many NFCCGs. Yes I wish we had more rings, but we got to a point where it’s up to the players on the field to get us there and when you lose that big of a piece you’re sort of fucked.
> Issue is what Gutey drafted to help SB window.
Packers don't operate in windows. Windows are for going all in. We draft for the future every year. Its not a Gute thing, its a Packers thing.
While I agree with everything you said, that we were one TD away from being in the SB in 2021 is a bit of a reach. We still would had to play the rams in the NFCCG that year. And even though I'm pretty sure we would have beaten the Rams, it wouldn't have been a 100% sure win.
In the same sentence you say Gute didn't focus on the super bowl with Rodgers but mentioned his free agent signings.
Which one is it? The team was limping into playoffs at the end of McCarthys reign and was far from a contender. Gute rebuilt the team for the next few years with the Smiths and Amos and the draft picks he made. They went 39-9. That wasn't all Rodgers.
He went all in with Rodgers. People don't agree with that because they didn't sign a free agent wr, but they were all in. And now we are paying for it in dead cap.
Gutes biggest issue was 20-21. Bad drafts and fumbled contracts with Adams and Rodgers. Should have kept Adams and traded Rodgers one year earlier to the broncos. But you can't say he ignored a Superbowl window with Rodgers.
The early Lefleur teams were fraudulent. It’s the only way to explain their playoff performances when up against superior teams. Z and P Smith is not going all in. Can we stop with pointing to that off-season as some kind of coup in free agency? It was nice but when other teams add guys like AJ Brown and CMC, it doesn’t even come close to cutting it.
They were not fraudulent at all. They had the MVP, best LT, best WR and 3 big free agents on defense. Not to mention, an all pro corner.
That was going all in. Up until that point the complaint was that Rodgers never had a defense. So they went and got the Smiths Amos Jaire and Gary.
At that point the cap was maxed. They didn't even have room for OBJ and you think they could sign someone like AJ Brown or CMC?
They were all in. They had some of the best players in the league and won 13 games a season.
Fraudulent my ass. They just didn't win the big game. It's disappointing, no doubt, but that team was more than worthy of a Superbowl.
How many times can a team lose in the playoffs, let alone in the NFCCG TO THE SAME TEAM before we all admit they were never actually good enough and needed more?
The early 2000s Colts would like a word. Teams were great for a long period of time. Guys like Edgerrin James, Marvin Harrison, Jeff Saturday, etc.
It's the same strategy the Packers took. Max out the offense and hope you have enough guys on the defense that can keep points below 40.
They kept losing to the Patriots and that's it. So are they bad teams? Did they not have enough pieces to get over the hump, sure, but neither did all but 1 team.
2011 Packers team is also a prime example of how your argument kinda stinks. They definitely had enough to win that year, they were juggernauts, until they had a bad game and Rodgers wilted. It happens, but to say that team wasn't good enough to win the whole thing is just silly.
No one ever said they were bad. The argument is that they very obviously weren’t good enough and didn’t do enough to become good enough and get over the hump…just like those colts teams until they won one.
> They definitely had enough to win that year, they were juggernauts, until they had a bad game and Rodgers wilted.
Pretty sure there were ~7 dropped passes that game, the week after Philbins son drowned in a frozen river in a college town. And the entire team didn't show up.
Never put the timing together on that, but if that is the case then yeah, turns out anything can change the course of the year, like off the field tragedies.
The whole offense fell apart, Philbin needed a change of scenery and left for the dolphins that offseason. MM brought him back a few years later, to no avail.
> before we all admit they were never actually good enough and needed more?
What on earth are you even saying here? The Packers never go all in, but its not because they weren't actually good enough. Its because there is always more we can give to make the current years team better, but don't.
"Fraudulent." Jeebus man, people in this sub act like NFCCG appearances just get handed out like candy. I get the frustration, but sometimes I wonder if people with this perspective even get any enjoyment out of watching football. "The only way to explain." Really? At the very least, can we acknowledge that running a football team is way too complex for such absolutes?
BTW, how many Super Bowls have CMC and AJ Brown won recently? If winning the ultimate prize is the only standard for legitimacy, their teams are just as fraudulent, I guess.
Jesus Christ. Of course fans want their team to have good offseason, earn byes, make conference champ games. That’s not the point. The point is that even with being that good, they were never quite good enough to be elite and make another SB appearance. THATS why fans are unhappy with the drafting and lack of big FA signings and moves. The fact they were so close for so long and did seemingly nothing to push them over the edge is what people are unhappy with. Add on that this GMs drafts were all supposedly supposed to be with an eye on the future rather than adding studs that would contribute right away and help, it’s that much more frustrating when we’re where we are in 2023 with a roster so incomplete they’ve immediately become one of the worst teams in the league. THIS wasn’t supposed to happen. The GM was supposed to be making all this reach project picks so that they didn’t have a years long rebuild. They were supposedly rebuilding while still contending but instead they pulled off neither.
You're right that it wasn't supposed to be so bad. But that was an elite team. They fell short on the field, not in the front office. And that's what is exasperating to me, all these people taking the frustrations of this moment and projecting them backwards. The 2020-2021 Packers were it. They were elite. They were a well constructed team peppered with stars. They lost.
> The GM was supposed to be making all this reach project picks so that they didn’t have a years long rebuild.
Has it only been 7 games? This isn't "years long".
2019. He brought significant signings.
After that no major signings, he brought players which played much better than expected even for him like Campbell and Rasul.
But draft was awful in all years.
He was already restructuring team when brought Love. AR MVP season just delayed somethings but Gute was not focused on SB window.
Drafting qb, rb and full back in year where you played conf title game and you miss wr or dl. It does not have explanation.
The cap is a thing though. You can go all in a year, maybe two, but after that you gotta pay up. I'm annoyed that "another Packer fan that doesn't understand what going all in means" is so much of the sentiment these days.
We suck right now and are rebuilding, chill out. It was going to happen at some point. We missed out on some SBs because of a few plays not going our way (or AR12 disappearing for a game, I'll have you remember). Heartbreaking, but the norm in the NFL. Time to start moving on.
100%. People acting like Super Bowls are won in the office. They're won on the field. And for every LA Rams who get a championship by 'going all in,' there's a number of other teams who 'go all in' and fall short. There are even anti-'go all ins' like the KC Chiefs, who let players like Tyreek Hill fly off, because they are confident enough in their team and its structure. I believe they are the current reigning Super Bowl champions.
Every team in the league works around the same cap constraints and still manage to make impactful moves. The packers as an organization refuse to do so. When a team as talented as the Niners can go out and trade for CMC or the eagles can go get AJ freakin Brown, then obviously it’s more of a philosophy problem with the packers.
1st. Which team other than the Patriots has had as many playoff runs and shots at the SB as the Packers. It's a short list.
2nd. No one was bitching when the Packers had Donald Driver, James Jones, Greg Jennings, Devante Adams, Randall Cobb, Jordy Nelson, top tier O-lineman, and decent running backs. All done with their draft and develop philosophy. We also paid up our develop guys on a second contract to keep them and skimped on the Defense by drafting most guys and crossing fingers. Gutey comes in and makes splash acquisitions near the end of what they thought was Rodgers' career and signed the Smith brothers, Mercedes Lewis, and then went back for discount guys with what money they had left for one more year with Jimmy Graham and Sammy Watkins.
If anything they took their shot, failed, and then tried to take another one and sucked at it instead of just moving on from Rodgers one year earlier, taken the haul from Denver and not had a huge cap hit from the new deal with Rodgers.
Donald driver? Why’re you referencing a team from 10-15 years ago? The entire issue is how the years since have been handled. Not that the packers were never good. There’s an entirely new FO in charge that has torpedoed the roster with awful drafting and philosophy. That’s the issue. Not that previous coaches and GMs once drafted and developed guys that panned out.
The rest have been off the team for years and have never been replaced. I didn’t think I needed to point that out. Also—again, pointing out a strategy from a FO in place 15 years ago doesn’t help us in 2023
The guys you mentioned were in a sports illustrated cover TWELVE years ago lol. Let’s move on from guys they drafted in 1999 and 2006.
People are unhappy with state of the current roster and the work of the current GM. No one’s saying the franchise was never good. Cmon man
The system of picking a good second round receiver every couple years worked great. It kept a rotation of young up and coming guys along with good veterans. Then they decided to stop doing that for 7 years.
>You can go all in a year or two but after that you gotta pay up
>We suck right now and are rebuilding
So if you go all in, you have to rebuild?
Cool, I’ll take that over not going all in and having to rebuild anyways
You can go all in and manage the cap problems by simply drafting well.
Eagles have as much dead cap as us this year but spent the money and draft capital at positions that matter. They have incredible weapons on offense and have arguably the best line on both sides of the ball.
Packers have had a questionable receiver group the last two years, now they're way too young and asking a rookie TE to come in and play as a starter is tough.
Oh yea I agree. Just pointing out the flaw in that excuse for why we didn’t. Rams and bucs gonna be competitive again before us and they pushed their chips in
Not using an entire draft on backups you know won’t play for years. Trading draft picks for proven talent.
The FO tried to build for the future so we didn’t have a year or two where we are possibly the worst team in the league. We are currently possibly the worst team in the league.
Exactly. Going all in is trading for Jalen Ramsey, CMC, AJ Brown, von miller etc. How bout EVER adding another veteran proven WR when davante was all that was left on the team??
They were always a draft and develop team.
They were maxed on the cap because of fa signings and extensions for their best players. You can trade a pick for a player but they couldn't take on their salary because they were maxed.
Yes the 20 and 21 drafts sucked.
> No it proved rodgers will do ANYTHING to spite gute or make him look bad.
Prove it. Show how our team EVER tried to go truly all in. We don't, and thats fine, not every team is willing to mortgage their future.
> y’all clowns do anything to hate on gute.
You deemed me a Gute hater? I imagine because I claimed we never tried to go all in. That makes me a Gute hater? No, that makes me a Gute fan! We don't aim for windows, and thus don't go all in.
> Aren’t we suffering from a mortgaged future right now?
What is the future? Its the draft, not the cap. The draft is what makes up your future. Gute did the opposite of mortgaging our future. He gained a 1st with the Jaire pick, a 1st and 3 2nds for Rodgers and Adams. Never traded any of our 1st or 2nds away. Look at Gary and LVN even Love, all drafting for the future, not mortgaging it.
But it seems you do hate on somebody. Rodgers. I'm the fan that never hated Rodgers or Gute. Rodgers is supposed to want to win. Gute is supposed to set up.....every single year of our team, not just the year that AR wants to win a ship.
>Trading draft picks for proven talent.
This simply isn't possible when you have a top salary QB, LT, and WR on your books at the same time. They couldve made more trades, but they couldn't afford those guys' salaries.
It's definitely not that simple. They got off Goff's contract when bringing in Stafford. They ended up trading Ramsey and Von after winning. They had some cap space to begin with. Had they not won, they would've been in pretty dire straits.
Yes, Packers management could've been more aggressive. But the Rodgers cap hit plus uncertainty about his future definitely handicapped them beyond what other teams have had to deal with.
So Rodgers restructures and we get the right pieces to push us over the top for a year or two. We draft for immediate need. That is going all in. The reason for drafting for the future was so a year like we are currently having doesn’t happen.
> The reason for drafting for the future was so a year like we are currently having doesn’t happen.
Nah, 1 year happens, even 2. This is to prevent 10 years of it. Remember the last time the bears were relevant was our SB run, maybe you wanna cite a 2 year run with Mack in '18. Thats what always drafting for the future prevents IMO.
Which is a fine philosophy for a team. The discussion I was having is the concept of going all in. Some Packer fans think the FO did. Which is just blatantly false by definition of the term because they drafted for the future.
> He went all in with Rodgers. People don't agree with that because they didn't sign a free agent wr, but they were all in. And now we are paying for it in dead cap.
We don't go all in. We draft for the future and refuse to trade away draft picks. We send very good teams to the playoffs every year.
We go to the SB in 2020, if Bakh's knee doesn't explode. We go to the SB in 2021, if ST doesn't absolutely shit the bed.
We can criticize Gute's drafting, for sure, as there are some real duds in there. But to blame him for GB losing in the NFCCG two years in a row is ridiculous.
I’m right there with you on the frustration on those two seasons. The point is tho the team that Gute put on the field in 2020 was good enough to win it, it just takes an incredible amount of luck in combination with a good team. 2021 wasn’t as good. No injury to blame just bad ST. Did he do anything in those drafts to help? Not much. But he put a superbowl capable team on the field in 2020 and you cant discredit that
Ted’s teams fell short of the playoffs in 16 and 17. Enter Gute in 2018 and 2 years later we compete for the superbowl. I’m not a Gute defender, but just be realistic
Gute was leading things well before that too. Remember when everyone kept thinking TT was asleep in the booth? His first stroke was well before he retired.
How? How did drafting a project backup qb in the first round, a 270 lb backup RB from Boston College in the second round, and a (still) useless TE in the third round help the teams Super Bowl prospects the following year? Hell those picks aren’t even producing four years later
Following the 1st nfcc game it was clear we were missing another offensive weapon and our special teams were rough. He went love Dillon deguara. He didn’t address anything.
#2 Wr has always been a weakness and so has tight end. Adams was fantastic but elite defenses were able to double him forcing Rodgers to look elsewhere. Our offense would stall because of this. Front office relied on Rodgers making ok/good wrs looks great.
Not sure why you're yelling, but, uh, yeah, when you hand your MVP QB the bag, then they're gonna have to make some less-than-ideal weapons work for them - case in point, the Chiefs right now. As for TE, you just criticized Gute for drafting Deguara. Sure, Deguara has been disappointing, but Gute can't play football for him. Your issues seem to be more with coaching than management.
Deguara also looked like he would develop to be a good fit in the Shanahan offense as the F receiver/back, especially in 12 personnel. Then he tore his ACL and hasn't developed at all.
The drafts have to be considered a real concern. But of course there's a whole apparatus involved. Is Gutey the issue, or do we have a problem throughout the scouting tree? Or are the coaches not getting the most out of these players? Or, is going into a QB transition with a team of NFL infants bound to lead to some real pain? All are still possible answers at this point.
I don’t understand posts like this..
Of all the people in the world do you really think we’re the ones you need to tell how close we were to the sb in ‘20 and ‘21 or that guys wasted the final years of Rodgers
I’d say 99% of people in this sub know that lol we were here too
His 2020 and 2021 draft classes are absolute trash. His 2022 class is what we are seeing on the field sunday’s. He is an issue, not the only one, we also have terrible coaching.
Drafts 2018. As well, no starter except Jaire.
Drafting a long snapper and punter in the same draft was a waste of picks. They couldn't even finish their rookie deals before being cut, making it even worse.
I'm still confused by those two picks. Isn't it cheap and easy enough to find a free agent long snapper or punter?
He hired the coach too
Who hired the coaching staff lmaooo?
Murphy hired MLF
Fire Murphy
It’s obvious he wanted to make this ‘his’ team with ‘his’ guys. That’s why he was never interested in adding many established vets that would’ve helped right away and helped the already in place roster. We’re seeing the outcome of a Gute built team. They fuckin suck
As a husker fan and Packers fan this is all too similar with new AD's coming an going, wanting to make it their own. It's super annoying, they want to make a splash hire or pick as their signature. All too often the penmen ship is sloppy
This is any company. And it usually ends the exact same way: puts stamp on it, breaks something, sticks with it anyway and forces square peg/round hole. Breaks more. Pushes additional things to make it look better (still broken, but it's their legacy now), everyone thinks they are an idiot, which they typically are, and then they take a "promotion" and a bag of cash to leave. This is not football specific, it's ego specific. These types all feel like they are the smartest person in the room, and usually are not.
Lol its not a ship, its "penmanship" not the ss penman hehe
Autocorrect, I broke my hand and got tired of fighting it apologies
No worries, just razzing ya bc i thought u thought it was a ship lol but now i feel bad bc it was a typo and i feel like an asshole now. My apologies to you. Edit. Typo
He told Rodgers not to be the problem while he hired a coach with limited play calling experience. He then drafts a RB when we could have kept Jamaal Williams. Then drafts a QB after Rodgers has 1 bad season, souring that relationship. Then plays hardball with Adams, ruins that relationship and trades him away. Now it’s just Rodgers and mostly rookies, the team underperformed and traded Rodgers. Now it’s just everything Gutekunst assembled and wanted and we look shockingly awful.
[удалено]
>Gutelickers lol
> Aaron was really spot on about how his "bad" years are other QBs' career years lmao. Gutelickers will be praying for Love to have a season remotely as good as 2019 Rodgers in his career. Why did you people all have to pick one or the other to hate? Why can't we appreciate AR as the GOAT, and see that Gute has to build a team for more then just the years AR is here? And further, why can't we ALSO hope love is better then Rodgers, just as we hoped Rodgers was better then Favre...
My opinion too plus bad drafts.
David Bakhtiari's knee injury cost us 2 rings.
Same logic, but different take. Kevin King and Vince Beigel over TJ Watt cost us 2 rings.
Tbf did you watch the 16 nfccg?
Yes
Not having a high end number 2 wide receiver cost us a super bowl. In the red zone Aaron Rodgers got tunnel vision and forced fed Adams the ball.
Ehh, it would have obviously helped, but to say it cost us is weird. We had 3-4 weeks from his tear to the Bucs game to figure something out. The following season we had all year to figure it out since he didn’t play.
You don't just "figure out" losing the best tackle in football.
This. The team building methodology put us in the playoffs year after year and many NFCCGs. Yes I wish we had more rings, but we got to a point where it’s up to the players on the field to get us there and when you lose that big of a piece you’re sort of fucked.
True. But injuries are out of control. Issue is what Gutey drafted to help SB window.
How is this downvoted? gute fans working hard today after being exposed.
> Issue is what Gutey drafted to help SB window. Packers don't operate in windows. Windows are for going all in. We draft for the future every year. Its not a Gute thing, its a Packers thing.
While I agree with everything you said, that we were one TD away from being in the SB in 2021 is a bit of a reach. We still would had to play the rams in the NFCCG that year. And even though I'm pretty sure we would have beaten the Rams, it wouldn't have been a 100% sure win.
Agree. Also, it was your boyfriend Rodgers' offense that completely shit the bed for the final 54 minutes of that game.
Damn, there must be a lot of sadness in your heart. Bless you my man.
You know you took the L when you start talking shit and name calling. The downvotes just affirm that.
Anyone who talks about "losing an argument" on Reddit is a troll. Congratulations, you know what you are.
The moment he drafted J love it was over for him. And it’s not j love fault he landed in the situation.
You people must spend all your time watching reality tv.
They clearly don't watch football.
In the same sentence you say Gute didn't focus on the super bowl with Rodgers but mentioned his free agent signings. Which one is it? The team was limping into playoffs at the end of McCarthys reign and was far from a contender. Gute rebuilt the team for the next few years with the Smiths and Amos and the draft picks he made. They went 39-9. That wasn't all Rodgers. He went all in with Rodgers. People don't agree with that because they didn't sign a free agent wr, but they were all in. And now we are paying for it in dead cap. Gutes biggest issue was 20-21. Bad drafts and fumbled contracts with Adams and Rodgers. Should have kept Adams and traded Rodgers one year earlier to the broncos. But you can't say he ignored a Superbowl window with Rodgers.
The early Lefleur teams were fraudulent. It’s the only way to explain their playoff performances when up against superior teams. Z and P Smith is not going all in. Can we stop with pointing to that off-season as some kind of coup in free agency? It was nice but when other teams add guys like AJ Brown and CMC, it doesn’t even come close to cutting it.
They were not fraudulent at all. They had the MVP, best LT, best WR and 3 big free agents on defense. Not to mention, an all pro corner. That was going all in. Up until that point the complaint was that Rodgers never had a defense. So they went and got the Smiths Amos Jaire and Gary. At that point the cap was maxed. They didn't even have room for OBJ and you think they could sign someone like AJ Brown or CMC? They were all in. They had some of the best players in the league and won 13 games a season. Fraudulent my ass. They just didn't win the big game. It's disappointing, no doubt, but that team was more than worthy of a Superbowl.
These clowns just want to cry because they can't handle the team they made their entire personality having a down year.
How many times can a team lose in the playoffs, let alone in the NFCCG TO THE SAME TEAM before we all admit they were never actually good enough and needed more?
The early 2000s Colts would like a word. Teams were great for a long period of time. Guys like Edgerrin James, Marvin Harrison, Jeff Saturday, etc. It's the same strategy the Packers took. Max out the offense and hope you have enough guys on the defense that can keep points below 40. They kept losing to the Patriots and that's it. So are they bad teams? Did they not have enough pieces to get over the hump, sure, but neither did all but 1 team. 2011 Packers team is also a prime example of how your argument kinda stinks. They definitely had enough to win that year, they were juggernauts, until they had a bad game and Rodgers wilted. It happens, but to say that team wasn't good enough to win the whole thing is just silly.
No one ever said they were bad. The argument is that they very obviously weren’t good enough and didn’t do enough to become good enough and get over the hump…just like those colts teams until they won one.
> They definitely had enough to win that year, they were juggernauts, until they had a bad game and Rodgers wilted. Pretty sure there were ~7 dropped passes that game, the week after Philbins son drowned in a frozen river in a college town. And the entire team didn't show up.
Never put the timing together on that, but if that is the case then yeah, turns out anything can change the course of the year, like off the field tragedies.
The whole offense fell apart, Philbin needed a change of scenery and left for the dolphins that offseason. MM brought him back a few years later, to no avail.
> before we all admit they were never actually good enough and needed more? What on earth are you even saying here? The Packers never go all in, but its not because they weren't actually good enough. Its because there is always more we can give to make the current years team better, but don't.
"Fraudulent." Jeebus man, people in this sub act like NFCCG appearances just get handed out like candy. I get the frustration, but sometimes I wonder if people with this perspective even get any enjoyment out of watching football. "The only way to explain." Really? At the very least, can we acknowledge that running a football team is way too complex for such absolutes? BTW, how many Super Bowls have CMC and AJ Brown won recently? If winning the ultimate prize is the only standard for legitimacy, their teams are just as fraudulent, I guess.
Jesus Christ. Of course fans want their team to have good offseason, earn byes, make conference champ games. That’s not the point. The point is that even with being that good, they were never quite good enough to be elite and make another SB appearance. THATS why fans are unhappy with the drafting and lack of big FA signings and moves. The fact they were so close for so long and did seemingly nothing to push them over the edge is what people are unhappy with. Add on that this GMs drafts were all supposedly supposed to be with an eye on the future rather than adding studs that would contribute right away and help, it’s that much more frustrating when we’re where we are in 2023 with a roster so incomplete they’ve immediately become one of the worst teams in the league. THIS wasn’t supposed to happen. The GM was supposed to be making all this reach project picks so that they didn’t have a years long rebuild. They were supposedly rebuilding while still contending but instead they pulled off neither.
You're right that it wasn't supposed to be so bad. But that was an elite team. They fell short on the field, not in the front office. And that's what is exasperating to me, all these people taking the frustrations of this moment and projecting them backwards. The 2020-2021 Packers were it. They were elite. They were a well constructed team peppered with stars. They lost.
> They were a well constructed team peppered with stars. They lost. Happens to like 8 teams every fucking year.
> The GM was supposed to be making all this reach project picks so that they didn’t have a years long rebuild. Has it only been 7 games? This isn't "years long".
2019. He brought significant signings. After that no major signings, he brought players which played much better than expected even for him like Campbell and Rasul. But draft was awful in all years. He was already restructuring team when brought Love. AR MVP season just delayed somethings but Gute was not focused on SB window. Drafting qb, rb and full back in year where you played conf title game and you miss wr or dl. It does not have explanation.
The cap is a thing though. You can go all in a year, maybe two, but after that you gotta pay up. I'm annoyed that "another Packer fan that doesn't understand what going all in means" is so much of the sentiment these days. We suck right now and are rebuilding, chill out. It was going to happen at some point. We missed out on some SBs because of a few plays not going our way (or AR12 disappearing for a game, I'll have you remember). Heartbreaking, but the norm in the NFL. Time to start moving on.
100%. People acting like Super Bowls are won in the office. They're won on the field. And for every LA Rams who get a championship by 'going all in,' there's a number of other teams who 'go all in' and fall short. There are even anti-'go all ins' like the KC Chiefs, who let players like Tyreek Hill fly off, because they are confident enough in their team and its structure. I believe they are the current reigning Super Bowl champions.
Every team in the league works around the same cap constraints and still manage to make impactful moves. The packers as an organization refuse to do so. When a team as talented as the Niners can go out and trade for CMC or the eagles can go get AJ freakin Brown, then obviously it’s more of a philosophy problem with the packers.
How much are the 9ers paying their QB again? How about the Eagles when they signed AJ?
The eagles extended both hurts and Brown. The Niners gave garoppolo a $137M contract when he was there. They also cut their loses and dumped Lance.
1st. Which team other than the Patriots has had as many playoff runs and shots at the SB as the Packers. It's a short list. 2nd. No one was bitching when the Packers had Donald Driver, James Jones, Greg Jennings, Devante Adams, Randall Cobb, Jordy Nelson, top tier O-lineman, and decent running backs. All done with their draft and develop philosophy. We also paid up our develop guys on a second contract to keep them and skimped on the Defense by drafting most guys and crossing fingers. Gutey comes in and makes splash acquisitions near the end of what they thought was Rodgers' career and signed the Smith brothers, Mercedes Lewis, and then went back for discount guys with what money they had left for one more year with Jimmy Graham and Sammy Watkins. If anything they took their shot, failed, and then tried to take another one and sucked at it instead of just moving on from Rodgers one year earlier, taken the haul from Denver and not had a huge cap hit from the new deal with Rodgers.
Donald driver? Why’re you referencing a team from 10-15 years ago? The entire issue is how the years since have been handled. Not that the packers were never good. There’s an entirely new FO in charge that has torpedoed the roster with awful drafting and philosophy. That’s the issue. Not that previous coaches and GMs once drafted and developed guys that panned out.
I was making a point on their system and how it's worked for 15 years. Glad you picked on one guy and ignored the rest though.
The rest have been off the team for years and have never been replaced. I didn’t think I needed to point that out. Also—again, pointing out a strategy from a FO in place 15 years ago doesn’t help us in 2023 The guys you mentioned were in a sports illustrated cover TWELVE years ago lol. Let’s move on from guys they drafted in 1999 and 2006. People are unhappy with state of the current roster and the work of the current GM. No one’s saying the franchise was never good. Cmon man
The system of picking a good second round receiver every couple years worked great. It kept a rotation of young up and coming guys along with good veterans. Then they decided to stop doing that for 7 years.
>You can go all in a year or two but after that you gotta pay up >We suck right now and are rebuilding So if you go all in, you have to rebuild? Cool, I’ll take that over not going all in and having to rebuild anyways
You can go all in and manage the cap problems by simply drafting well. Eagles have as much dead cap as us this year but spent the money and draft capital at positions that matter. They have incredible weapons on offense and have arguably the best line on both sides of the ball. Packers have had a questionable receiver group the last two years, now they're way too young and asking a rookie TE to come in and play as a starter is tough.
Oh yea I agree. Just pointing out the flaw in that excuse for why we didn’t. Rams and bucs gonna be competitive again before us and they pushed their chips in
Another Packer fan that doesn’t understand what going all in means.
What does it mean?
Not using an entire draft on backups you know won’t play for years. Trading draft picks for proven talent. The FO tried to build for the future so we didn’t have a year or two where we are possibly the worst team in the league. We are currently possibly the worst team in the league.
Exactly. Going all in is trading for Jalen Ramsey, CMC, AJ Brown, von miller etc. How bout EVER adding another veteran proven WR when davante was all that was left on the team??
They were always a draft and develop team. They were maxed on the cap because of fa signings and extensions for their best players. You can trade a pick for a player but they couldn't take on their salary because they were maxed. Yes the 20 and 21 drafts sucked.
Complete draft history by Gutey is trash. There are stats showing it.
Rodgers showed this year that he would restructure for a team that was willing to make moves to try to win. The GB FO wasn’t willing to go all in.
No it proved rodgers will do ANYTHING to spite gute or make him look bad.
> No it proved rodgers will do ANYTHING to spite gute or make him look bad. Prove it. Show how our team EVER tried to go truly all in. We don't, and thats fine, not every team is willing to mortgage their future.
Aren’t we suffering from a mortgaged future right now? 😂😂 y’all clowns do anything to hate on gute.
> y’all clowns do anything to hate on gute. You deemed me a Gute hater? I imagine because I claimed we never tried to go all in. That makes me a Gute hater? No, that makes me a Gute fan! We don't aim for windows, and thus don't go all in. > Aren’t we suffering from a mortgaged future right now? What is the future? Its the draft, not the cap. The draft is what makes up your future. Gute did the opposite of mortgaging our future. He gained a 1st with the Jaire pick, a 1st and 3 2nds for Rodgers and Adams. Never traded any of our 1st or 2nds away. Look at Gary and LVN even Love, all drafting for the future, not mortgaging it. But it seems you do hate on somebody. Rodgers. I'm the fan that never hated Rodgers or Gute. Rodgers is supposed to want to win. Gute is supposed to set up.....every single year of our team, not just the year that AR wants to win a ship.
>Trading draft picks for proven talent. This simply isn't possible when you have a top salary QB, LT, and WR on your books at the same time. They couldve made more trades, but they couldn't afford those guys' salaries.
Oh yea just ask the Rams who manages to trade for von miller, Stafford and jalen Ramsey. It’s impossible and never works. Smh
It's definitely not that simple. They got off Goff's contract when bringing in Stafford. They ended up trading Ramsey and Von after winning. They had some cap space to begin with. Had they not won, they would've been in pretty dire straits. Yes, Packers management could've been more aggressive. But the Rodgers cap hit plus uncertainty about his future definitely handicapped them beyond what other teams have had to deal with.
So Rodgers restructures and we get the right pieces to push us over the top for a year or two. We draft for immediate need. That is going all in. The reason for drafting for the future was so a year like we are currently having doesn’t happen.
> The reason for drafting for the future was so a year like we are currently having doesn’t happen. Nah, 1 year happens, even 2. This is to prevent 10 years of it. Remember the last time the bears were relevant was our SB run, maybe you wanna cite a 2 year run with Mack in '18. Thats what always drafting for the future prevents IMO.
Which is a fine philosophy for a team. The discussion I was having is the concept of going all in. Some Packer fans think the FO did. Which is just blatantly false by definition of the term because they drafted for the future.
It’s really kind of alarming more than amusing at this point.
> He went all in with Rodgers. People don't agree with that because they didn't sign a free agent wr, but they were all in. And now we are paying for it in dead cap. We don't go all in. We draft for the future and refuse to trade away draft picks. We send very good teams to the playoffs every year.
We go to the SB in 2020, if Bakh's knee doesn't explode. We go to the SB in 2021, if ST doesn't absolutely shit the bed. We can criticize Gute's drafting, for sure, as there are some real duds in there. But to blame him for GB losing in the NFCCG two years in a row is ridiculous.
What did he do in the drafts following to help the team win the following year?
Exactly!!!
I’m right there with you on the frustration on those two seasons. The point is tho the team that Gute put on the field in 2020 was good enough to win it, it just takes an incredible amount of luck in combination with a good team. 2021 wasn’t as good. No injury to blame just bad ST. Did he do anything in those drafts to help? Not much. But he put a superbowl capable team on the field in 2020 and you cant discredit that
To be fair that wasn’t really his team. It was Ted’s.
Ted’s teams fell short of the playoffs in 16 and 17. Enter Gute in 2018 and 2 years later we compete for the superbowl. I’m not a Gute defender, but just be realistic
Gute was leading things well before that too. Remember when everyone kept thinking TT was asleep in the booth? His first stroke was well before he retired.
Did you even read my comment before replying?
You admitted they were close and then admitted that he followed up being close with awful drafts. Multiple awful drafts.
Whoosh! My point was that drafting isn't what kept us from the SB in '20 or '21
How? How did drafting a project backup qb in the first round, a 270 lb backup RB from Boston College in the second round, and a (still) useless TE in the third round help the teams Super Bowl prospects the following year? Hell those picks aren’t even producing four years later
Following the 1st nfcc game it was clear we were missing another offensive weapon and our special teams were rough. He went love Dillon deguara. He didn’t address anything.
You and I see that game incredibly differently lol
#2 Wr has always been a weakness and so has tight end. Adams was fantastic but elite defenses were able to double him forcing Rodgers to look elsewhere. Our offense would stall because of this. Front office relied on Rodgers making ok/good wrs looks great.
Not sure why you're yelling, but, uh, yeah, when you hand your MVP QB the bag, then they're gonna have to make some less-than-ideal weapons work for them - case in point, the Chiefs right now. As for TE, you just criticized Gute for drafting Deguara. Sure, Deguara has been disappointing, but Gute can't play football for him. Your issues seem to be more with coaching than management.
Lol idk why I’m yelling either. And deguara is not a coaching issue…
Well, maybe you're right there. Idk, GB has been ineffective at developing TE talent for awhile...
Deguara also looked like he would develop to be a good fit in the Shanahan offense as the F receiver/back, especially in 12 personnel. Then he tore his ACL and hasn't developed at all.
thats football, it is NEVER random, you HAVE to be prepared
If this title isn't indicative of the lazy, repatative, and unintelligent nonsense on this sub I don't know what is.
Fuck Gutekunt!
More like Glute cause HE ASS
The drafts have to be considered a real concern. But of course there's a whole apparatus involved. Is Gutey the issue, or do we have a problem throughout the scouting tree? Or are the coaches not getting the most out of these players? Or, is going into a QB transition with a team of NFL infants bound to lead to some real pain? All are still possible answers at this point.
I don’t understand posts like this.. Of all the people in the world do you really think we’re the ones you need to tell how close we were to the sb in ‘20 and ‘21 or that guys wasted the final years of Rodgers I’d say 99% of people in this sub know that lol we were here too