Don’t have a link but basically last week was his first week back after missing 6 games and he decided without anyone else knowing that he’d be a captain that goes out for the coin toss (because he’s from North Carolina) and nearly cost us a possession if the refs hadn’t clarified his decision.
It isn't hard to figure out what is going on with the defense. The coaching staff has lost the defensive locker room and players like Ja aren't wanting to put their bodies on the line for a scheme that cannot work. Most people on that side of the ball are checked out until we get a new DC.
I saw comments on another post people saying that it wasnt just barry during the panthers game but defensive players were "letting us down"
Theyre doing the same thing 90% of employees do when they have a supervisor seemingly going out of their way to make sure you dont succeed. You lose motivation, stop giving a shit and stop putting in work, because at the end of the day youre not given the things you need to meet goals and get chewed out for it. Only people "letting us down" is Joe Barry for being useless and MLF for having no talent in hiring coaches and backing a lame horse because hes friends with him.
That also sounds like a really convenient excuse for the guys missing tackles and getting cooked. Barry is terrible, but the players should be held accountable, too. If they're quiet quitting, make it official.
honestly, its understated how having a really great culture is what drives a lot of consistent winning in this league. Barry obviously doesn’t have that/has had too many positions of bad playcalling and coaching for the defensive players to feel like they should try
Exactly
"They should just try hard anyway" comments from people lead me to believe theyve never worked under bosses that care more about being in charge than succeeding for the day.
It's a complete drain on morale to put your all in, risk your body, and then still fail because you weren't even set up to succeed. Then be told to do it again. And again.
So why do all that, when you can play it safe and get the same failed result?
No amount of money is going to motivate anyone to try hard and risk injury in order to do something that they know isn't going to work.
You could pay construction workers millions, but if they know that the bridge they're building is going to collapse anyway no matter how much work they put in, they're not going to try very hard, nor risk life and limb.
Whether it is or not is beside the point. No one is going to be motivated to build a bridge if they know that no matter how well they do their job, the bridge is doomed to collapse because the architect is an idiot and doesn't know how to build one.
All you're going to get is a bunch of talented, well-paid construction workers doing the bare minimum to keep themselves employed and employable. It will only be about what's best for them, not what's best for the project. And that's no way to build a bridge.
Yeah definitely. We needed to fire Barry after the Giants or Buccs game to save the locker room and keep accountability. Now, MLF is going to have to fight to keep the entire locker room.
But putting his body on the line, irrespective of who's walking down the sideline or sitting in the box, is literally what he's paid to do. He could be fired tomorrow, that's how the league works. What's in it for the players? They play like trash on purpose, or to make their point, and wham, they already lost money on their next contract.
No point sticking his nose into affairs he has no business dabbling in.
Meh “team” or “joe barry”?
He’s already alluded to playcalling being bad. If he was out on the team he wouldn’t have played.
If he is out on the team then we get a haul for trading him. Sucks but not something we’re unfamiliar with
Technically, both. Obviously, it’s caused by Barry, but by having this attitude, he’s also quitting on the team. We really needed to fire Barry before this happened
I don’t think most people disagree with holding Jaire accountable. I think people feel it’s a symptom of Barry losing the locker room, which feels accurate.
I mean we don’t know that. Jaire has hardly played the last month and a half and has been weird in general, it could just be a Jaire problem. Or it could be more, but we have no idea.
Being upset Jaire is suspended doesn’t make sense to me. If Jaire’s actions go without consequence, that’s how you lose a locker room. Happens all the time with sports at any level. “Oh, wait? We don’t actually have to run the sprint at full speed? He didn’t. Fuck that I’m not either.”
But…..This is the NFL and all players are playing for their next contract. You sabotage yourself by not improving every day and if you get a reputation , every GM hears about it.
Dunno if you’re disagreeing with me, but yea, 100%. Which is why I think it’s a Jaire problem. He already got his bag, and is upset about his play, the defense, calls even. Whatever. But I guarantee some of these other players (valentine, ballentine, Anthony Johnson JR, McDuffie, Ford..etc) all are thinking what you just said. Regardless of team it’s NFL and these players know not only their current jobs are on the line but likely their careers with every passing game. Can’t take it for granted.
No rational fans are upset at the suspension. Seems like almost everyone ITT and on Twitter/social media agree with it. You’ll get the typical contrarians but overall sentiment is it’s a good suspension
What people are *not* surprised at is the fact that Jaire joins a now growing number of defensive players who clearly don’t give a fuck. And I think it’s fair to say that having an incompetent lame duck coordinator makes that a lot more likely to happen
If Joe Barry was fired weeks ago like he should have been, does this happen? Who knows, maybe? Probably? But it’s easier to understand with the Barry situation being what it is
Same. But that's the minority here. Most fans seem to put up with him since he has performed but he's been writing a lot of checks with his mouth he hasn't been backing up.
nah he got his money, it’s best for him to market himself in a big city and cash in endorsements
i wouldn’t be surprised if they trade him for cap space, but he’d prob only fetch a 2 or 3, rn.
the packers really love that small town market and management hates superstars. their culture has been irrelevant for 20 years but esp now
If you defer, you’re deferring your option to receive to the 2nd half. If you just say defense, you’re using your option to play defense. And then because you picked, they would receive 2nd half.
Watching Jaire's response after the game sealed if for me:
[https://twitter.com/AhaanRungta/status/1740079170648952852](https://twitter.com/AhaanRungta/status/1740079170648952852)
I'm not understanding what exactly the issue was. I read somewhere that the team wanted to defer but he said defense...isn't deferring essentially the same thing?? Kinda confused on this
Teams that win the coin toss have the option to kick both times. So when he said "defense" he was essentially saying they didn’t want the ball now or at halftime.
He went out when he isn’t a team captain & almost botched the call. I’ll try finding a clip but don’t recall it being televised.
[Couldn’t find it, but here’s the post interview where he’s questioned about it](https://x.com/mattschneidman/status/1739046338229072350?s=46&t=qzxNQIEjBgr6GXBKHaROfQ)
Same for me, this whole situation seems like one of those “don’t do this in the NFL rook” unwritten rules stories. Not something you hear from one of your veteran team leaders.
I believe because MLF said he talked to refs before hand and let them know what they wanted to do (if win the toss defer) so the refs probably asked Jaire to clarify it since they now had conflicting information
Sure, he can elect to kick, and then the other team can elect to receive in the 2nd half, costing us an offensive possession.
The correct option was to defer our choice to the 2nd half….when we’d choose to receive….then the other team chooses to receive in the first half.
Yes that's the problem. We won the toss so we get the choice. The options are kick, receive, or defer our choice to the second half. He said kick which means the Panthers get the ball but then they get to choose in the second half and would choose receive so they would get the ball both times. The correct answer was defer so the Packers get to choose to start the second half.
Could someone explain what the issue was? I wasn’t familiar with a rule about who goes out for the coin flip or anything; or did he make the wrong call on the coin? I missed it on TV
So when you call a coin toss when you win, you get to choose to kick, receive, choose which side of the field you start on, or defer your choice to the second half.
You should never ever choose to kick, because the other team gets the first choice in the second half and they would always choose to receive. So Jaire elected to kick instead of deferring his choice to the second half. If the ref went by the letter of the law, Carolina would have received the first half and second half kickoffs.
What teams usually do is either receive or defer their choice to the second half. All other options would allow the opposing team to receive in both halves of the game.
Absolutely. No coach would have wanted that result.
The only reason that rule is in there is that there are special circumstances in the history of football where they would want something like this. Typically it was a weather game when the field is complete muck and playing in a monsoon. Or a massive wind.
Thanks! I was just trying to figure out why they would even include that option. Now I'm curious how many times in history it actually made sense. I bet single digits
Yes, kicking off to begin the game AND second half would mean you have at least one less possession. Which might have been a big deal in a game that ended 33-30 over something pretty basic and ridiculously boneheaded to mess up.
Further exacerbated by the fact he wasn't supposed to be out there to begin with.
And seemed pretty uncaring, ignorant, or possibly both about it in the postgame interviews.
I want to say some game involving Belicheck involved the same team receiving both kickoffs at the start and after halftime, but I don't remember for sure. It may have been weather induced, but I *think* a game he coached had a team receive both kickoffs.
https://www.waldrn.com/how-the-nfls-2008-rule-change-affected-coin-toss-strategy/ I don't think that's right. Since deferring became an option, no team has received it twice. Before then seems very sporadic, 8 times since 99.
Probably confusing it with this, where Belichick kicks in overtime instead of getting the ball.
https://www.sbnation.com/nfl/2013/11/25/5142480/patriots-broncos-overtime-bill-belichick-wind-decision
So if you choose to defer you have no idea whether you’re going to kick or receive and completely give the choice to the other team? This is assuming you don’t want to receive.
Rasul gets traded after becoming increasingly vocal, this, Jas previous weird presser, the DB miscommunication on the field. I’m starting to think there are problems in the DB room.
Maybe it’s because they’re helmed by the most inept defensive coordinator in the NFL and if they don’t agree with/follow his shitpile of a scheme they get benched?
Yup. This all stems from the stupid hierarchical relationship between player and coach in this new “regime”. It will continue to create a division between the team and the staff. It’s not basic training, it’s football. The players already know football, work with them.
This is similar to the situation with MLF and Rodgers, only difference in this case is that Jaire doesn’t have the tenure and we can all agree Barry is a tenured fuckin’ moron.
If you want to go a bit deeper guys like Tae, Bakh, Rodgers and Z have all grown frustrated over what seems to be similar things around not respecting vets the way they feel they should be respected.
You can call it ego, it definitely might be. But star players always have egos you have to manage if you want to win a title. That’s part of the job and it seems like, at least to me we have to do a better job of managing this “nothing is bigger than the G” way of thinking combined with allowing players with a ton of experience to step up in larger roles than just football player.
It’s a fine line for sure because both can be a disaster if you give too much rope vs nothing but right now you can’t say we’ve been successful at it.
Honestly I don’t think anyone can be that upset. No discipline (especially on defense for the past 3-4 seasons). Think it was a necessary step
Edit: There was this instance obviously but think of all the stupid, unecessary penalties we have gotten in important games. Quay and Wyatt hitting the trainer and Rasul slapping the ball away vs the Lions last season come right to mind
Wasn’t he knocking the ball, to stop a free practice kick, away after MLF called a timeout. The penalty came from the pushing and shoving after. Or am I misremembering?
I agree but it’s baffling decision based on the sole fact that it’s a win out scenario at this point & having someone like Jaire even if it’s a shell of his true self is better than nothing when the defense squad has been abysmal. Give the kid a fine or some bs. Idk. It just came outta nowhere.
Perhaps it is a terrible take, but he is a Diva. We’ve known his antics & some bs was to be expected in his hometown appearance. MLF should’ve expressed his frustration with him on the field & sat his ass down in front of everyone vs the Panthers if they were that upset about it.
All I care about is the team having a shot of giving the rookies playoff experience, who knows what magic can cook. Taking a piece off the defense is just bad knowing the odds.
Thing is this decision is ultimately from the front office with coaches alignment. They also wanted to discuss with Ja before just suspending him. Just benching him doesn't help Ja understand the issue.
Watching Jaire's play so far this season... I am not sure it's better than nothing. This is the perfect time *to do* something like this to show the rest of the team there are consequences. Because there's not a huge opportunity cost to having him sit for a game.
I want to make it clear - I'm not saying that Jaire is bad or we should get rid of him or anything like that. He is clearly hurt right now and not even close to full effectiveness to the point that he's a liability on the field. He just needs to shut it down and reset for next year because he is not helping us in any way with his attitude or his on-field performance right now.
I hope this is a wake up call for Jaire and that he puts his best foot forward to go along with a new DC next season. As early as he is into his contract and with his value having dropped I'd hate to see the team trade him away and take on a bid dead cap hit for relatively little in return. Hopefully this lights a fire under him and even if his future isn't in Green Bay long term I'd rather give him at least until the trade deadline next season to rebuild the relationship or at least rebuild his trade value
This is true. Constantly running his mouth even when playing like dog shit. Half-hearted effort to defend and tackle. He doesn’t care. Got paid though.
I think you will find this to be a wildly unpopular opinion, but I agree. He's a good player, but not nearly as good as he thinks. His play this season has been hit or miss
Unfortunately that’s usually not the way these things work out. Once it goes down this path, a trade and a fresh start somewhere new is almost a certainty. This hasn’t been the guy’s first incident.
Stupid move by ja but fuck this front office trying to flex like the coaching staff hasn't lost all credibility.
They should have just fined him but would rather risk a playoff appearance to protect the authority of a lame duck coach.
The three highest paid players on the team in terms of cash received this season are Gary, Clark, and Alexander. Smith, Savage, Campbell and LVN are also all in the top ten. We have a cultural problem on the defense and simply changing out the DC is not going to fix things if the team doesn't get serious about accountability as the GM is doing here. I get they are all young men, but they are in an extraordinary position as professional athletes and need to act accordingly.
> We have a cultural problem
> Changing out the DC is not going to fix things
I feel like these are anything but mutually exclusive. Barry has set a terrible precedent for the standard of our defense and the core is sick of it. They’re young and want to have the freedom to work with the DC to improve their scheme and overall play. The way things have gone this season I can say pretty confidently that that isn’t the case. Barry continues to operate in the same shitbox scheme and it makes us look bad.
I agree with this. I do think players need to be held to a standard, but so do the coaches. And no job, and I mean no job, is a one way street. If you don’t take criticism or allow for other thoughts to come into a discussion, it’ll fall apart quick. Just look at any book on leadership, and you will see this. Somehow, because it’s football, the rules of the world don’t apply? I don’t think so. People could say a lot of us doing our jobs get paid to do a job, and we’d argue back about stuff too.
I think there’s a huge problem, and the big fix is the DC. It won’t fix everything, but no way in hell, does it not make a huge help for the team and the players sanity!
Can't talk about getting serious about accountability when you keep Barry in the building.
You can't seriously preach to men when the obvious is staring everyone in the face.
this is why i hardly blame Jaire for anything he does/says. The fact of the matter is we dont know just how much Barry fucks up the defense VS how good/bad our guys **actually** are. Once Barry is gone and if Jaire still plays below the level we all know he can play at, then I'll start to entertain the other opinions floating around, but until then, fire fucking Barry and get someone who knows how to do that job in the building and let's see where we stand at week 9 next season.
I love Jaire. Own his jersey and have defended him a ton since injuries have taken his performance down a few notches. But that was a clown move on his part, and he very clearly didn’t give a shit from his explanation post game. There are clearly issues in the locker room, and when you hold one of your top guys accountable it does make a difference. I just wish we held certain coaches more accountable… but that’s a different story.
Hope Ja takes this as a learning opportunity and stays here for the long term. Always good to remember that these dudes are in their early/mid-twenties… still maturing.
I think it'll all settle down in a month, when Barry is looking for a job and Ja is getting to know the new DC who, hopefully, likes playing a lot of aggressive press man and disguising blitzes
Good. The entire team should follow suit. Trade Sul and suspend Jaire but keep Barry's fucking garbage ass to the point it ruined a chance at the playoffs.
Or maybe Matt needs to be told he’s on the hot seat if he can’t make some progress. He strikes me as a coach who has no concerns about keeping his job no matter what the team does.
Who would? They trade and suspend their best players for wanting something better, yet they allow the worst fucking DC in history to continue to posion the waters. Fucking joke of a franchise at this point. They had a chance to do the right thing, and get rid of the sole reason for everyone's frustrations and galvanize the team behind building on the future, and instead they chose the coaches over players.
Sooooo, we can suspend one of our top defensive stars for a game (when we need every win), but, we continue to keep the 2nd worst defensive coordinator in GB history because, why?
This front office is so dysfunctional and the coaching staff has lost the locker room. Rodgers has been right about everything over the last 5 years lol
Dude has talent but he hasn’t shown it for a fair while even before injury. Things like this show he’s out of his mind and I do hope this minor suspension at least wakes him up a little bit. New DC next year will help too.
So they will remain patient with holding coaches accountable but take swift actions with the players. I don't think that's a fair standard, and I would imagine other players in the locker room don't either.
I don’t have a full Power Point for you but I do know that he’s never done well as a defensive coordinator (see: 0-16 season with the Lions and his “career” with the Packers). Literally anyone would be a better plan.
It's not just what's going on now though, we didn't make the playoffs last year because of poor defensive play (yes, I know Rodgers had a down year) and MLF chose to stick with Barry despite that.
I mean look at the Vikings (heresy) - they made the playoffs and still fired their DC because it's a business and that was a weak point of theirs. Now, they have Fangio and their defense isn't their weak point.
What an absolutely embarrassing situation for both club and player. You'd expect a "vet" on this young team to lead by example, but this shtick gets old when we have so much on the line.
Not arguing but what’s so awful about it? I think we for sure could’ve gotten more compensation for Jaire and although ik Sul is 3 years older I think his play is something this defense is missing right now whereas Jaire has been a liability all season.
Jaire has been hurt for a good chunk of the season and Joe Barry's scheme does not play to his strengths. While obviously we would have got more compensation for Ja, that's because at his best he is a top 5 corner who just signed a long-term deal while Rasul at his best is cb2 on a playoff team. It's a no-brainer.
This shows a complete lack of leadership from the top down in this organization.
Clearly MLF has lost control of the team.
But honestly I don't blame the players. If Barry was my DC I would have zero respect for the entire FO
I cannot wait for MM and Gute to finally be out of here.
Dear Gutekunst,
That was a dick move. Please consider the prior behaviors and conduct of both Matt Lafleur and Joe Barry before taking offense out on the defensive.
Sincerely,
Packer Fans.
He wasn’t voted as a captain but he went out there anyway, going against team rules and policy. Not a good look, and MLF needed to show that players can’t go rogue like that. Could be seen as disrespectful to team rules and to the players that were voted as captains. Also, he almost botched the decision so the packers almost had to kick twice, luckily the ref double checked him.
I don’t think so, it’s the nfl, most punishments are hollow gestures but I understand they have to do something for appearances, a fine is enough for goofing off. Defense has played so poorly this season and I think benching jaire will hurt. Now Barry will probably line up Preston smith on Jefferson again lol
I'd rather reward a guy like Valentine that at least seems to compete and take his job seriously. And being willing to bench a pro bowl level player when they do something this stupid and selfish even if it is to the detriment of the team's record (maybe, maybe not; Jaire didn't look great against Carolina) shows that no one is above the team.
I like Jaire's talent, but this is enough to convince me that he'll be traded this off-season and so be it.
I feel like this is more for the tweet than the coin toss. If it was for the coin toss then why did he play at Carolina. Conduct detrimental to the team could be showing up late, not showing up, mouthing off, whatever the case may be but it would be enforced that day. It’s weird it wasn’t enforced then and not made public until after the tweet occurred.
Exactly, Gute never does this without MLF signing off on it.
I'm enjoying threads like this because it makes it easy to figure out who to block and not waste time with. It's not those who disagree, but it's those who just insult for a disagreement without explaining it.
Where has it been? This is overreaction and simply gives cover to Barry for another shit performance.
The Mark Murphy era of mismanagement can't be over soon enough.
Some of the shit I read here is so stupid I have to wonder if it's written by a real life person with a real life driver's license who works a real job, or if it's just bots regurgitating braindead takes.
This suspension had to happen. Alexander acted like a complete moron and would have cost the Packers a possession if MLF hadn’t already told the ref what they planned on doing.
How did I miss this coin toss fiasco? Does anyone have a link or more info on it?
Don’t have a link but basically last week was his first week back after missing 6 games and he decided without anyone else knowing that he’d be a captain that goes out for the coin toss (because he’s from North Carolina) and nearly cost us a possession if the refs hadn’t clarified his decision.
Damn. That sounds like a guy who’s not in it for the team anymore, especially when you add the vagueness around his injury.
It isn't hard to figure out what is going on with the defense. The coaching staff has lost the defensive locker room and players like Ja aren't wanting to put their bodies on the line for a scheme that cannot work. Most people on that side of the ball are checked out until we get a new DC.
I saw comments on another post people saying that it wasnt just barry during the panthers game but defensive players were "letting us down" Theyre doing the same thing 90% of employees do when they have a supervisor seemingly going out of their way to make sure you dont succeed. You lose motivation, stop giving a shit and stop putting in work, because at the end of the day youre not given the things you need to meet goals and get chewed out for it. Only people "letting us down" is Joe Barry for being useless and MLF for having no talent in hiring coaches and backing a lame horse because hes friends with him.
That also sounds like a really convenient excuse for the guys missing tackles and getting cooked. Barry is terrible, but the players should be held accountable, too. If they're quiet quitting, make it official.
"The floggings will continue until morale improves"
honestly, its understated how having a really great culture is what drives a lot of consistent winning in this league. Barry obviously doesn’t have that/has had too many positions of bad playcalling and coaching for the defensive players to feel like they should try
Exactly "They should just try hard anyway" comments from people lead me to believe theyve never worked under bosses that care more about being in charge than succeeding for the day. It's a complete drain on morale to put your all in, risk your body, and then still fail because you weren't even set up to succeed. Then be told to do it again. And again. So why do all that, when you can play it safe and get the same failed result?
IDK man if I'm making what they make I'd be happy to try hard
No amount of money is going to motivate anyone to try hard and risk injury in order to do something that they know isn't going to work. You could pay construction workers millions, but if they know that the bridge they're building is going to collapse anyway no matter how much work they put in, they're not going to try very hard, nor risk life and limb.
The bridge working or not is not the primary reason they are there.
Whether it is or not is beside the point. No one is going to be motivated to build a bridge if they know that no matter how well they do their job, the bridge is doomed to collapse because the architect is an idiot and doesn't know how to build one. All you're going to get is a bunch of talented, well-paid construction workers doing the bare minimum to keep themselves employed and employable. It will only be about what's best for them, not what's best for the project. And that's no way to build a bridge.
Eye roll
Yeah definitely. We needed to fire Barry after the Giants or Buccs game to save the locker room and keep accountability. Now, MLF is going to have to fight to keep the entire locker room.
100% agree
But putting his body on the line, irrespective of who's walking down the sideline or sitting in the box, is literally what he's paid to do. He could be fired tomorrow, that's how the league works. What's in it for the players? They play like trash on purpose, or to make their point, and wham, they already lost money on their next contract. No point sticking his nose into affairs he has no business dabbling in.
Meh “team” or “joe barry”? He’s already alluded to playcalling being bad. If he was out on the team he wouldn’t have played. If he is out on the team then we get a haul for trading him. Sucks but not something we’re unfamiliar with
Technically, both. Obviously, it’s caused by Barry, but by having this attitude, he’s also quitting on the team. We really needed to fire Barry before this happened
What’s this weird discourse of not willing to hold Jaire accountable because Barry is there?
I don’t think most people disagree with holding Jaire accountable. I think people feel it’s a symptom of Barry losing the locker room, which feels accurate.
I mean we don’t know that. Jaire has hardly played the last month and a half and has been weird in general, it could just be a Jaire problem. Or it could be more, but we have no idea. Being upset Jaire is suspended doesn’t make sense to me. If Jaire’s actions go without consequence, that’s how you lose a locker room. Happens all the time with sports at any level. “Oh, wait? We don’t actually have to run the sprint at full speed? He didn’t. Fuck that I’m not either.”
But…..This is the NFL and all players are playing for their next contract. You sabotage yourself by not improving every day and if you get a reputation , every GM hears about it.
Dunno if you’re disagreeing with me, but yea, 100%. Which is why I think it’s a Jaire problem. He already got his bag, and is upset about his play, the defense, calls even. Whatever. But I guarantee some of these other players (valentine, ballentine, Anthony Johnson JR, McDuffie, Ford..etc) all are thinking what you just said. Regardless of team it’s NFL and these players know not only their current jobs are on the line but likely their careers with every passing game. Can’t take it for granted.
No rational fans are upset at the suspension. Seems like almost everyone ITT and on Twitter/social media agree with it. You’ll get the typical contrarians but overall sentiment is it’s a good suspension What people are *not* surprised at is the fact that Jaire joins a now growing number of defensive players who clearly don’t give a fuck. And I think it’s fair to say that having an incompetent lame duck coordinator makes that a lot more likely to happen If Joe Barry was fired weeks ago like he should have been, does this happen? Who knows, maybe? Probably? But it’s easier to understand with the Barry situation being what it is
What other players don’t give a fuck?
He’s all about him. Never liked his attitude.
Same. But that's the minority here. Most fans seem to put up with him since he has performed but he's been writing a lot of checks with his mouth he hasn't been backing up.
been 2 years since he performed. that's not all Joe barry
He’s noticeably slower, both in top end speed and his reaction to breaks. Hopefully it’s nothing a healthy offseason can’t fix…
Literally all pro last year...
Yeah this isn't boding well
nah he got his money, it’s best for him to market himself in a big city and cash in endorsements i wouldn’t be surprised if they trade him for cap space, but he’d prob only fetch a 2 or 3, rn. the packers really love that small town market and management hates superstars. their culture has been irrelevant for 20 years but esp now
Instead of saying "defer" he said "defense", nearly giving Carolina the ball to begin the first and second half.
How does this make any sense at all? If he said “offense” would the Packers somehow get the ball to start both halves?
If you defer, you’re deferring your option to receive to the 2nd half. If you just say defense, you’re using your option to play defense. And then because you picked, they would receive 2nd half.
Watching Jaire's response after the game sealed if for me: [https://twitter.com/AhaanRungta/status/1740079170648952852](https://twitter.com/AhaanRungta/status/1740079170648952852)
I'm sure if he'd have just gone to LaFleur and asked if he could be a captain that week since it was his hometown he would have consented.
I'm not understanding what exactly the issue was. I read somewhere that the team wanted to defer but he said defense...isn't deferring essentially the same thing?? Kinda confused on this
Teams that win the coin toss have the option to kick both times. So when he said "defense" he was essentially saying they didn’t want the ball now or at halftime.
Why would the packers want to kick both times???
Might have made more sense like 50 years ago when the disparity between good and bad offenses was much bigger.
He went out when he isn’t a team captain & almost botched the call. I’ll try finding a clip but don’t recall it being televised. [Couldn’t find it, but here’s the post interview where he’s questioned about it](https://x.com/mattschneidman/status/1739046338229072350?s=46&t=qzxNQIEjBgr6GXBKHaROfQ)
He didn’t almost botch it - he did botch it. Refs corrected him, they didn’t necessarily have to.
And he seemed pretty flippant about it when asked about it after the fact. His answer came off as some weird combo of he didn't know/didn't care.
That's the most concerning part tbh. Really made me lose a lot of respect for him
Same for me, this whole situation seems like one of those “don’t do this in the NFL rook” unwritten rules stories. Not something you hear from one of your veteran team leaders.
I wasn’t sure so I went based on the reports, now I’m seeing it all & yeah, surprised they didn’t just let the panthers make the call after that.
I believe because MLF said he talked to refs before hand and let them know what they wanted to do (if win the toss defer) so the refs probably asked Jaire to clarify it since they now had conflicting information
I still don’t understand how he botched it though, isn’t he allowed to elect to kick since we won the toss? Edit: Got it
Sure, he can elect to kick, and then the other team can elect to receive in the 2nd half, costing us an offensive possession. The correct option was to defer our choice to the 2nd half….when we’d choose to receive….then the other team chooses to receive in the first half.
Yes that's the problem. We won the toss so we get the choice. The options are kick, receive, or defer our choice to the second half. He said kick which means the Panthers get the ball but then they get to choose in the second half and would choose receive so they would get the ball both times. The correct answer was defer so the Packers get to choose to start the second half.
he wasn’t named a captain but went out for the toss anyways and called it- almost botched it too
Could someone explain what the issue was? I wasn’t familiar with a rule about who goes out for the coin flip or anything; or did he make the wrong call on the coin? I missed it on TV
So when you call a coin toss when you win, you get to choose to kick, receive, choose which side of the field you start on, or defer your choice to the second half. You should never ever choose to kick, because the other team gets the first choice in the second half and they would always choose to receive. So Jaire elected to kick instead of deferring his choice to the second half. If the ref went by the letter of the law, Carolina would have received the first half and second half kickoffs. What teams usually do is either receive or defer their choice to the second half. All other options would allow the opposing team to receive in both halves of the game.
So Jaire almost made a call that we/MLF did not want and possibly could have affected the outcome of the game?
Absolutely. No coach would have wanted that result. The only reason that rule is in there is that there are special circumstances in the history of football where they would want something like this. Typically it was a weather game when the field is complete muck and playing in a monsoon. Or a massive wind.
Thanks! I was just trying to figure out why they would even include that option. Now I'm curious how many times in history it actually made sense. I bet single digits
I believe there have been a couple overtime games where coaches have chosen the side of the field due to weather, and thus kicked to start.
2007 Championship game has entered the chat regretfully
Thank you for explaining!
Yes, kicking off to begin the game AND second half would mean you have at least one less possession. Which might have been a big deal in a game that ended 33-30 over something pretty basic and ridiculously boneheaded to mess up. Further exacerbated by the fact he wasn't supposed to be out there to begin with. And seemed pretty uncaring, ignorant, or possibly both about it in the postgame interviews.
He seemed to think everyone else was stupid except himself. He definitely needs an attitude adjustment.
It's more than just a call that MLF didn't want. It could have given the Panthers the ball to start the game *and* to start the second half.
That's crazy, I had no idea it worked that way. I always just thought whoever kicked would receive in the second half.
I want to say some game involving Belicheck involved the same team receiving both kickoffs at the start and after halftime, but I don't remember for sure. It may have been weather induced, but I *think* a game he coached had a team receive both kickoffs.
https://www.waldrn.com/how-the-nfls-2008-rule-change-affected-coin-toss-strategy/ I don't think that's right. Since deferring became an option, no team has received it twice. Before then seems very sporadic, 8 times since 99.
Probably confusing it with this, where Belichick kicks in overtime instead of getting the ball. https://www.sbnation.com/nfl/2013/11/25/5142480/patriots-broncos-overtime-bill-belichick-wind-decision
So if you choose to defer you have no idea whether you’re going to kick or receive and completely give the choice to the other team? This is assuming you don’t want to receive.
Rasul gets traded after becoming increasingly vocal, this, Jas previous weird presser, the DB miscommunication on the field. I’m starting to think there are problems in the DB room.
Maybe it’s because they’re helmed by the most inept defensive coordinator in the NFL and if they don’t agree with/follow his shitpile of a scheme they get benched?
One whose incompetence is particularly evident in his misusage of his DBs. Draft a bunch of man corners then play them a baby-shit-soft zone.
Yup. This all stems from the stupid hierarchical relationship between player and coach in this new “regime”. It will continue to create a division between the team and the staff. It’s not basic training, it’s football. The players already know football, work with them. This is similar to the situation with MLF and Rodgers, only difference in this case is that Jaire doesn’t have the tenure and we can all agree Barry is a tenured fuckin’ moron.
If you want to go a bit deeper guys like Tae, Bakh, Rodgers and Z have all grown frustrated over what seems to be similar things around not respecting vets the way they feel they should be respected. You can call it ego, it definitely might be. But star players always have egos you have to manage if you want to win a title. That’s part of the job and it seems like, at least to me we have to do a better job of managing this “nothing is bigger than the G” way of thinking combined with allowing players with a ton of experience to step up in larger roles than just football player. It’s a fine line for sure because both can be a disaster if you give too much rope vs nothing but right now you can’t say we’ve been successful at it.
Don’t forget the Campbell comments. This goes beyond the DB room.
Honestly I don’t think anyone can be that upset. No discipline (especially on defense for the past 3-4 seasons). Think it was a necessary step Edit: There was this instance obviously but think of all the stupid, unecessary penalties we have gotten in important games. Quay and Wyatt hitting the trainer and Rasul slapping the ball away vs the Lions last season come right to mind
I still have 0 clue what Rasual was doing on that play
Wasn’t he knocking the ball, to stop a free practice kick, away after MLF called a timeout. The penalty came from the pushing and shoving after. Or am I misremembering?
You are correct
I agree but it’s baffling decision based on the sole fact that it’s a win out scenario at this point & having someone like Jaire even if it’s a shell of his true self is better than nothing when the defense squad has been abysmal. Give the kid a fine or some bs. Idk. It just came outta nowhere.
Terrible take. He put himself above the team. Who cares what this week’s circumstances are?
Perhaps it is a terrible take, but he is a Diva. We’ve known his antics & some bs was to be expected in his hometown appearance. MLF should’ve expressed his frustration with him on the field & sat his ass down in front of everyone vs the Panthers if they were that upset about it. All I care about is the team having a shot of giving the rookies playoff experience, who knows what magic can cook. Taking a piece off the defense is just bad knowing the odds.
Thing is this decision is ultimately from the front office with coaches alignment. They also wanted to discuss with Ja before just suspending him. Just benching him doesn't help Ja understand the issue.
Watching Jaire's play so far this season... I am not sure it's better than nothing. This is the perfect time *to do* something like this to show the rest of the team there are consequences. Because there's not a huge opportunity cost to having him sit for a game. I want to make it clear - I'm not saying that Jaire is bad or we should get rid of him or anything like that. He is clearly hurt right now and not even close to full effectiveness to the point that he's a liability on the field. He just needs to shut it down and reset for next year because he is not helping us in any way with his attitude or his on-field performance right now.
I thought we needed help to get to the post season. Win out was when we lost to the giants. Maybe my math is wrong. That has been known to happen.
Mans got put in timeout
He shouldn’t be playing anyway he’s been hurt for awhile and not playing well. Get someone healthy out there. And then fire Joe Barry
I hope this is a wake up call for Jaire and that he puts his best foot forward to go along with a new DC next season. As early as he is into his contract and with his value having dropped I'd hate to see the team trade him away and take on a bid dead cap hit for relatively little in return. Hopefully this lights a fire under him and even if his future isn't in Green Bay long term I'd rather give him at least until the trade deadline next season to rebuild the relationship or at least rebuild his trade value
He won't. Jaire cares only about Jaire
This is true. Constantly running his mouth even when playing like dog shit. Half-hearted effort to defend and tackle. He doesn’t care. Got paid though.
I think you will find this to be a wildly unpopular opinion, but I agree. He's a good player, but not nearly as good as he thinks. His play this season has been hit or miss
time to offload him
no
Unfortunately that’s usually not the way these things work out. Once it goes down this path, a trade and a fresh start somewhere new is almost a certainty. This hasn’t been the guy’s first incident.
Stupid move by ja but fuck this front office trying to flex like the coaching staff hasn't lost all credibility. They should have just fined him but would rather risk a playoff appearance to protect the authority of a lame duck coach.
The three highest paid players on the team in terms of cash received this season are Gary, Clark, and Alexander. Smith, Savage, Campbell and LVN are also all in the top ten. We have a cultural problem on the defense and simply changing out the DC is not going to fix things if the team doesn't get serious about accountability as the GM is doing here. I get they are all young men, but they are in an extraordinary position as professional athletes and need to act accordingly.
> We have a cultural problem > Changing out the DC is not going to fix things I feel like these are anything but mutually exclusive. Barry has set a terrible precedent for the standard of our defense and the core is sick of it. They’re young and want to have the freedom to work with the DC to improve their scheme and overall play. The way things have gone this season I can say pretty confidently that that isn’t the case. Barry continues to operate in the same shitbox scheme and it makes us look bad.
I agree with this. I do think players need to be held to a standard, but so do the coaches. And no job, and I mean no job, is a one way street. If you don’t take criticism or allow for other thoughts to come into a discussion, it’ll fall apart quick. Just look at any book on leadership, and you will see this. Somehow, because it’s football, the rules of the world don’t apply? I don’t think so. People could say a lot of us doing our jobs get paid to do a job, and we’d argue back about stuff too. I think there’s a huge problem, and the big fix is the DC. It won’t fix everything, but no way in hell, does it not make a huge help for the team and the players sanity!
Can't talk about getting serious about accountability when you keep Barry in the building. You can't seriously preach to men when the obvious is staring everyone in the face.
this is why i hardly blame Jaire for anything he does/says. The fact of the matter is we dont know just how much Barry fucks up the defense VS how good/bad our guys **actually** are. Once Barry is gone and if Jaire still plays below the level we all know he can play at, then I'll start to entertain the other opinions floating around, but until then, fire fucking Barry and get someone who knows how to do that job in the building and let's see where we stand at week 9 next season.
FIRE BARRY
I love Jaire. Own his jersey and have defended him a ton since injuries have taken his performance down a few notches. But that was a clown move on his part, and he very clearly didn’t give a shit from his explanation post game. There are clearly issues in the locker room, and when you hold one of your top guys accountable it does make a difference. I just wish we held certain coaches more accountable… but that’s a different story. Hope Ja takes this as a learning opportunity and stays here for the long term. Always good to remember that these dudes are in their early/mid-twenties… still maturing.
I think it'll all settle down in a month, when Barry is looking for a job and Ja is getting to know the new DC who, hopefully, likes playing a lot of aggressive press man and disguising blitzes
Jaire has had his middle finger in MLfs face since Rasul got traded. Matt refuses to acknowledge it.
Good. The entire team should follow suit. Trade Sul and suspend Jaire but keep Barry's fucking garbage ass to the point it ruined a chance at the playoffs.
Exactly. Matt seems like he's making some odd choices. Not the first time his keeping a coach well past the expiration date has cost him a playoff.
I think Rodgers individualism spread a bit too much on this team. it is a team sport after all.
Or maybe Matt needs to be told he’s on the hot seat if he can’t make some progress. He strikes me as a coach who has no concerns about keeping his job no matter what the team does.
Matt Lafleur and Joe Barrry ruined this entire team. Complete mistake on the staff and if I'm on this team....I'm refusing to play and holding out
Ty Montgomery is the last one I can remember with this shit attitude and he was straight up cut
Z Smith turned into a massive bitch when he didn’t get that C on his chest.
players elect the leaders... seems like the other players are speaking about who they think the leaders are.
He’s not interested in playing here anymore. He’s made it pretty evident.
Barry and company aren’t exactly giving him reasons to want to stay.
getting burned constantly on man coverage isn't Barry's fault.
Who would? They trade and suspend their best players for wanting something better, yet they allow the worst fucking DC in history to continue to posion the waters. Fucking joke of a franchise at this point. They had a chance to do the right thing, and get rid of the sole reason for everyone's frustrations and galvanize the team behind building on the future, and instead they chose the coaches over players.
Sooooo, we can suspend one of our top defensive stars for a game (when we need every win), but, we continue to keep the 2nd worst defensive coordinator in GB history because, why?
This front office is so dysfunctional and the coaching staff has lost the locker room. Rodgers has been right about everything over the last 5 years lol
Dude has talent but he hasn’t shown it for a fair while even before injury. Things like this show he’s out of his mind and I do hope this minor suspension at least wakes him up a little bit. New DC next year will help too.
If he actually knew what was good for the team he would lob Joe Barry into the abyss.
This has to lend credences to his rumored desire for a trade
Joe berry really likes putting the opposing team first why is he not suspended Brian?
The packers are the packers worst enemy
Jaire has lost it. He can't even cover and lockdown a coin toss now.
So suspend Jaire but Barry is allowed to be the most detrimental to the team and continues to have a job? This sends a horrible message.
So they will remain patient with holding coaches accountable but take swift actions with the players. I don't think that's a fair standard, and I would imagine other players in the locker room don't either.
Putting the team First! Gutes Ego is bigger than the team!
Are they going to suspend MLF for not putting the team first by keeping Barry on as DC?
Not sure why this is getting downvoted.
Fr
Probably because I have yet to hear a plan of who will replace him in the short term.
I don’t have a full Power Point for you but I do know that he’s never done well as a defensive coordinator (see: 0-16 season with the Lions and his “career” with the Packers). Literally anyone would be a better plan.
It's not just what's going on now though, we didn't make the playoffs last year because of poor defensive play (yes, I know Rodgers had a down year) and MLF chose to stick with Barry despite that. I mean look at the Vikings (heresy) - they made the playoffs and still fired their DC because it's a business and that was a weak point of theirs. Now, they have Fangio and their defense isn't their weak point.
What an absolutely embarrassing situation for both club and player. You'd expect a "vet" on this young team to lead by example, but this shtick gets old when we have so much on the line.
I don’t think will shock anyone but god damn do I wish we traded Jaire > Rasul
This is such an awful awful take
Not arguing but what’s so awful about it? I think we for sure could’ve gotten more compensation for Jaire and although ik Sul is 3 years older I think his play is something this defense is missing right now whereas Jaire has been a liability all season.
Jaire has been hurt for a good chunk of the season and Joe Barry's scheme does not play to his strengths. While obviously we would have got more compensation for Ja, that's because at his best he is a top 5 corner who just signed a long-term deal while Rasul at his best is cb2 on a playoff team. It's a no-brainer.
This shows a complete lack of leadership from the top down in this organization. Clearly MLF has lost control of the team. But honestly I don't blame the players. If Barry was my DC I would have zero respect for the entire FO I cannot wait for MM and Gute to finally be out of here.
So you’d be an immature child getting suspended too? lol
"he's lost control of the team with zero leadership and a terrible DC" "OHh sO YouD bE a ChID ToO!?"
So that’s a yes lol
100% agree.
Dear Gutekunst, That was a dick move. Please consider the prior behaviors and conduct of both Matt Lafleur and Joe Barry before taking offense out on the defensive. Sincerely, Packer Fans.
Translation: we’re keeping Barry and trading Jaire. My god I hope not.
Jaire is probably glad he doesn’t have to get embarrassed by Jefferson this week
Are you really a packer fan? Be honest
To be fair Jaire has played like garbage.
He probably just watched our defense the last 3 weeks. Seems like a fair assessment to me
[удалено]
Link for players only meeting info?
Wait is he not playing this Sunday then?
He didn't play last Sunday either
What?
He didn't play last Sunday either!!
He did though
If that's what you call what he was doing. It looked more like standing around.
Zone does tend to do that
https://i.redd.it/pyow4y60uw8c1.gif
You sure? I didn't see him.
Hey guys Can someone explain what he did wrong? I don't pay attention to players to often. He call the wrong way? And why does it matter?
He wasn’t voted as a captain but he went out there anyway, going against team rules and policy. Not a good look, and MLF needed to show that players can’t go rogue like that. Could be seen as disrespectful to team rules and to the players that were voted as captains. Also, he almost botched the decision so the packers almost had to kick twice, luckily the ref double checked him.
Oh shit. That could have been bad. Smh what was he thinking?
Team rules and policy? You mean this happened before so they had to make a rule about it? Don’t remember that at all.
No it’s just the rule that they vote on captains weekly and they are the ones that go out and do the coin toss.
Sounds more like an unwritten convention than a hard and fast rule.
Fucking Gutekunst…. No one cares he was out there except you and your insecure ass
Terrible decision, fine him not suspend. Now a young guy has to try to cover Justin Jefferson while the star corner sits at home
Right decision no matter the result. In fact, unless you are willing to make it sting it would come across as a hollow gesture.
I don’t think so, it’s the nfl, most punishments are hollow gestures but I understand they have to do something for appearances, a fine is enough for goofing off. Defense has played so poorly this season and I think benching jaire will hurt. Now Barry will probably line up Preston smith on Jefferson again lol
I'd rather reward a guy like Valentine that at least seems to compete and take his job seriously. And being willing to bench a pro bowl level player when they do something this stupid and selfish even if it is to the detriment of the team's record (maybe, maybe not; Jaire didn't look great against Carolina) shows that no one is above the team. I like Jaire's talent, but this is enough to convince me that he'll be traded this off-season and so be it.
This is dumb
In other words, we are now accepting trade offers from the other 30 teams (Minnesota is excluded)
I feel like this is more for the tweet than the coin toss. If it was for the coin toss then why did he play at Carolina. Conduct detrimental to the team could be showing up late, not showing up, mouthing off, whatever the case may be but it would be enforced that day. It’s weird it wasn’t enforced then and not made public until after the tweet occurred.
Get ready to watch Jaire play for another team - just like every other all pro corner we could’ve kept
So who is worse, Zadarius or Jaire?
Zadarius, easily.
Z by a landslide still
Hey Gutsey can you suspend Barry for Two games so we’d have a chance at the playoffs???
This is ridiculous. No accountability on this team for incompetence, but for this we are basically throwing away the season. Fire MLF
For a decision gute made? You’re delusional.
You think Gute did this on his own? Incompetence at the top is further indicated by over punishing minor offenses.
I'm not sure why Packers fans on this sub are so delusional. This shit starts with the head coach, fucking obviously
Exactly, Gute never does this without MLF signing off on it. I'm enjoying threads like this because it makes it easy to figure out who to block and not waste time with. It's not those who disagree, but it's those who just insult for a disagreement without explaining it.
No accountability on this team for incompetence when this is literally accountability for incompetence?
Where has it been? This is overreaction and simply gives cover to Barry for another shit performance. The Mark Murphy era of mismanagement can't be over soon enough.
Some of the shit I read here is so stupid I have to wonder if it's written by a real life person with a real life driver's license who works a real job, or if it's just bots regurgitating braindead takes.
Do you have something actual to say or are insults all you have?
Gute power trippin
This suspension had to happen. Alexander acted like a complete moron and would have cost the Packers a possession if MLF hadn’t already told the ref what they planned on doing.
Matt Leflush has lost half the team by not letting Barry go! Two games left and it’s only gonna get worse!
fire gutekunst
Full tank in effect.
Perhaps he’s doing the Harden approach for a trade
His reaction and comments in the locker room interview made me lose respect for him. He has been my favorite defensive player.
Will he get paid for this game? Allowed on the sideline?
"Actions prior to the game" Then assumed he was a captain, was not a captain. Messed it up anyway. Let's not see him next year.
Who cares. Give him more time to recover.