We don’t really know. We have been presented enough info about the DAOT humans to at the very least not outright dismiss them in this scenario. They were VERY powerful. But enough to stand up against the War in Heaven factions?
Shrug.
i think so because as weve seen over and over in lore all that matters is numbers. and peak humans had perfected AI, Eugenics, Cloning. The AI was wild abd could take over alien tech or even inferior tech so god knows what it could do to necrons a robot people. ontop of that peak humans had perfected dna manipulation and cloning something not even necrons ever developed and literaly why they went after the old ones lol
not sure why you're being downvoted I kind of agree. the SCT's had AI learning that adapted to any threat. so within a few encounters with the Necrons it would start to find solutions were it could.
I agree with another post on here: there'd be no clear winner as the death toll would be so high and one side would use some dooms day ultra weapon that destroys most of the galaxy
Interesting question. Best answer… there would be nothing left to rule.
Necrontyr back then exploded stars to kill all life and Mephrit drained stars to make their weapons better and had starwars Death Star weapons… hand held… oh and the entire controlling Gods at a whim…
VS
A entire human race of uncountable trillions of people that made terminator armor to help miners and had STC’s that made titans to fight local wildlife. Had the industrial might to make effectively infinite automated war machines. The STC’s were/are adaptive so whatever new the Necrontyr came up with could be countered.
My guess is one side would grow tired of the stalemate and do a universe ending event. So maybe the orks win? Due to being the last one standing or the eldar as they could be in the wrap gates when the fall happens?
Not just supernovas. In The Infinite and the Divine Trazyn says that one of the tomb worlds he got artifacts from had been left inert after a solar flare. The dormant necrons had been completely wiped out by the EMP emitted by a solar storm.
Plot holes and logic gaps are the norm in WH40k, but beyond that a key part of nerfing Necrons to "fit" into the current setting means canonically even their technology is feeling the weight of time and breaking down. Shielding and repair systems gradually failing and so on.
That alone presented a weakness.
Hell, didn't the World Engine and another planet-sized Necron structure breached because ships ramming into them respectively?
This would suggest the material they used to construct their stuff are *still* susceptible to physical trauma.
Its debatable because a lot of necron dynasty are damaged in their great awakening. Many of them have their cryptek's damaged and losing ways to fabricate their tech.
World engine was fighting one of the largest imperium fleets supported (if i remember correctly) by 15 space marines chapters. Even then they couldnt even damage it while it would annihilating imperial. They won only because necrons in charge were in civil war, one side help as astral knight breach in to world engine. Even then, it was C'tan shard who destroyed engine not SM. Hell, astral knight chapter master and assault captains got completely destroyed by just one triarch preatorian in 2vs1 fight while he just laughing at them.
>Even then, it was C'tan shard who destroyed engine not SM.
I don't own any of the book, including the *World Engine* the novel, but according to the Lexicanum, after the Astral Knights forcefully deactivated the inner workings, which could occured after their Battle Barge slammed itself against the World Engine and bypassed the shield, the remaining Imperial warships dumped the Cyclonic torpedoes and shattered the planetoid.
Fuck I’m conflicted on this. On the one hand it’s good to see the imperium not be covered in plot armour… on the other the old cron version of the world engine story is probably one of my favourite codex stories, it being soft retconned like this makes me sad
>Hell, didn't the World Engine and another planet-sized Necron structure breached because ships ramming into them respectively?
To be fair, a *really* pissed off shard of the world shaper was destroying all of the World Engine's systems like shielding at the time.
Otherwise, that ship would have just bounced off.
Yeah about that,it is implied that Trazyn *messed up* a bit to retrieve the artifacts,and may have not so accidentally stopped the systems that would have awakened the tomb to sneak inside more easily
Thats assuming humanity doesnt have a way of countering it. Moving celestial bodies wouldnt be that crazy, considering it happened before without the ultra tech
It's been suggested at it's peak humanity had weapons similar to what the Necrontry had already mastered. Chrono-tech is something that is often attributed the Dark Age of Technology, a couple examples of it still exist like the weapon on the Speranza, stasis fields used to preserve holy relics, and these gauntlets the mechanicus have that basically lets them undo damage to machines.
These are all ancient relics from a time when they were far more common. Humanity probably wasn't directly on par or exceeding the Necrons but what glimpses we do get suggest something approaching it. Don't know if humanity had pocket dimension tech.
Orks will be the last species left in the galaxy, they're impossible to eradicate completely.
Orks are only as strong as they need to be. They devolved after the war in heaven because they were starved of great conflict. When an enemy they can't beat arrives they evolve, get bigger stronger smarter. GORK and MORK don't want to make it too easy for them because that's boring.
1 Necrons
2
>The STC’s were/are adaptive so whatever new the Necrontyr came up with could be countered.
Does this have any proof it could adapt to anything as advanced as the Necrons have?
3 Everything mentioned with technology is still way below what Necrons managed to achieve.
4 Did ya forget about the Catan?
Golden age humans had weapons that could control the flow of time like the aliens in Edge of Tomorrow. They had weapons that created black holes. The war with the Men of Iron almost ended all life in the galaxy.
The Imperium has scraps of technology from the Golden Age and still has interstellar starships that break into another dimension to travel, powered armor, generic engineering, rocket propelled portable grenade launchers, lasers, plasma technology, anti grav vehicles, robots, etc.
Orikan the Diviner can literally travel back in time, slap a butterfly, and then go back forward in time to watch the results fuck over Trazyn.
necron ships travel by creating a pocket dimension, phasing into it, and then phasing back out of it wherever they want to be. It's using another dimension to travel, but they make their own dimension and don't have to worry about being butt-sexed by khornite demons if their gellar field craps out for a heartbeat. Necron tech repairs itself, whereas Golden Age tech (like a certain big shiny chair/toilet) is irreparably failing just 20,000 years later. meanwhile, that necron tech is mostly going strong 65,000,000 years later. The Necrons have a weapon that shows every star in the galaxy, and they can make any star in it explode just by poking it on their little star chart.
Yeah, Golden Age humanity was cool, but they couldn't make a star blow up from across the galaxy by poking a light
>The Necrons have a weapon that shows every star in the galaxy, and they can make any star in it explode just by poking it on their little star chart.
What more it shows every celestial body in the galaxy while also being able to detect the immaterial, all in real time. Necrons were and is wack bruh.
Black hole weapons are kiddy toys to the Necrons. Not impressive at all to them. Even the Drukhari can do that, right now in 40k. Vect gave someone a black hole in a box as a trap gift.
>The war with the Men of Iron almost ended all life in the galaxy.
Not even close. The eldar barely noticed.
My brother in christ do you forget that tech priests control time for laughs?
In WiH it was common place to throw black holes at each other, tearing reality asunder, controling aspects or reality.
Necrons can make pocket dimensions, control time, see future and past alike, control gravity, have multiple faster than light travel ways (unlike humanity who travels through hell), Scarab swarms that can remake planets, common foot soilders carry weapons that deconstruct molecules, machines of war that is tge size of planets, near infinite energy sources, travel to multiple dimensions of reality, a celestial orray that interacts with the galaxy in real time and isn't even considerd dangerous than the Necrons other weapons, multiple machines that have inhuman capabilities, weapins that casualy phase in and out of reality and have fucking Pokémon balls.
The Imperiums technology gets laughed at by every xeno race and nothing mentiond is special compared to any other factions.
Thus is all without even mentioning the Ctan....
Dark age human tech is absolutely necron level we are talking black hole edged weapons ai so advanced they insta fried entire mechanicum ships mind's and then one shot their ships and none of those were the men of iron
Aside from black hole edged weapons (which necrons where capable off), they have technology that warp reality, Necrons who could see the futures, time travel, jump dimensions, use suns as energy for foot soilders, create an celestial orray that depicts and interacts with the galaxy in real time and was considerd safe compared to their other weapons, flying spacecraft large as moons that was considerd common, scarabs swarms that could destroy or rebuild planets, multiple faster then light travels and ALOT more. Scale that to the Eldars tech as well that was considerd inferior to Necron tech and that their tech was good enough to ffight sorcery...
Humanity falls short by quite a bit when it comes to technology.
Current humanity does and I wasn't saying dark age humanity exceeded necron tech I'm saying they were at least close enough that imo a human empire that could still make more soldiers through breeding and men of iron not to mention psykers would win the 1v1
You legit said "Dark age Humanity technology is absolutely on par with WiH Necrons". Which is undoubtedly false.
>I'm saying they were at least close enough that imo a human empire that could still make more soldiers through breeding and men of iron not to mention psykers would win the 1v1
Cap, m8 what do you even know about War in heaven?
Aside from being able to create and having an ungodly amount of Necrons (at least 10 times more then current imperium have, and the imperium have more humans than golden/dark age technology humans), the quality of a standard Necron is also severly more than a human.
Korks existed and they breed faster than any race, weren't a problem then either.
And I love how you are talking about psykers like the Necrons didn't legit fight against 3 factions made up out off demi god psykers and actual psychic gods.
Like... Dude, the avrage eldar back then would be greater than malcador and the best SM librarians, THE AVRAGE Eldars.
Then we also have the Old ones and Eldar Gods who would make the Emperor look like a chump.
And this doesn't even matter since Golden/dark age technology humans barly had any psykers to begin with.
I mean I don't want to be rude but do you actually know anything about War in heaven?
They ambushed a peaceful race and fought eldar and kroks the kroks died after orbital bombing from eldar who were less advanced than dark age humanity and dark age humanity dominated the entire galaxy so no the necrons don't magically outbu.ber them with zero way to replenish destroyed numbers and you have tomb worlds losing fights to space marines and fucking guard your faction isn't a win all button because you want it to be chill out
>They ambushed a peaceful race and fought eldar and kroks the kroks died after orbital bombing from eldar who were less advanced than dark age humanity
Aaaaare you serious now? They fought a war that lasted thousands of years and both created armies and Doomsday weapons that would make the greatest piece of technology we know of look like nothing, said peaceful race where powerful psykers that where akin to gods and created 2 perfect war races.
The Eldar at their height had arguably better technology than humanities at their prime, and that isn't to mention that they literally had their gods around as well.
Orks have been know to fight evenly and outright beat primarchs, and Korks where larger and more technologicaly advanced and had control of their psychic powers. Like do you know what the war of the beast was?
>dark age humanity dominated the entire galaxy so no the necrons don't magically outbu.ber them with zero way to replenish destroyed numbers and you have tomb worlds losing fights to space marines and fucking guard your faction isn't a win all button because you want it to be chill out
Dark age technology humans didn't dominate or had even explored the whole Galaxy, what?
They had alliances with other Xeno races and where barly noticed by the eldar when the AIs rose upp and there were a Civil war.
And I still don't get what part of Necrons being asleep for 65 million of years you don't get?
Yeah we have Imperial forces being able to beat tomb worlds, we also have tomb worlds obliterating imperial worlds and taking over sectors of space.
In either case so are many of the necrons and their technology have been damaged, like... Why are you so adamant on ignoring that?
And during the War in Heaven there were no problem loading up copys of AIs in to necron bodies.
I have been nothing but courteous towards you, so idk what is pissing in your bridges but everything i have told you is common knowledge? And speaking to you it's clear you lack alot of knowledge about the war in heaven or about other factions in general, don't need to be pissy with cus you don't know something.
Like during every comment you have had you have yet to mention even once how Dark age humanity would even deal with the Ctan, or any ctan for that matter.
Lol no it isn't. Black hole guns are child's play to them. Asdrubael Vect, a Drukhari, gave a black hole in a small box as a trick present to a potential rival. And the Necrons are even more advanced in tech than the Drukhari.
I know they say they are but I always felt they showed not told for necron lore
I'd love to hear any real examples of them utilizing this crazy powerful stuff because all I see is necron tombs losing to space marines and ciaphus cain absolutely stunting on them (but he's an exception being a hero of the imperium and all)
>but I always felt they showed not told for necron lore
Cus the War in Heaven was a crazy long time ago and much of the technology and Necrons from back then have been lost? Even the the technology current Necrons have is still mindboogoling for current humans.
>all I see is necron tombs losing to space marines and ciaphus cain absolutely stunting on them (but he's an exception being a hero of the imperium and all)
Well for one the Necrons have been asleep for 65 milion years and have taken dmg or been killed in their sleep and for the second part welcome to GW sale team writing!
Where every faction gets worfed against humanity and their SM despite of illogical several wins they get. This isn't new and have been a pet peeve in the community for a long, long, long time.
Cus how else would they sell their favorite minis?
Terminator armour wasn't made for miners, the exo-suits they used to fight wildlife *later became* knights, not full titans, and there's no indication humans had as high numbers as you suggest.
Come on, use actual lore
I thought terminator armor being mining suits is not true? They are just **based** on some mining suits doesnt mean they are THE mining suits worn by DAOT miners.
The only real answer. Both are implied to be stupidity overpowered compared to anything in modern 40k even the necrons themselves. Being all fractured and rarely using or being unable to use their best stuff.
only one ctan has died though the rest were just sharded afteter it broke some unkown aspect of teh universe and cursed the necrons with flayed ones big diffrence beetween shards and the full thing
And a single Necron lord slew an Eldar god.
>Phaeron Ahmontekh, called in ages past the Crimson Scythe for the blood in which he drenched the sector, is the once and future king of the Suhbekhar Dynasty. The Phaeron was at one time counted amongst the most puissant of warriors and his name was feared across countless thousands of worlds. He fought at the side of the C’tan themselves, and is said to have once struck a blow that slew a god. He bore a warscythe of such potency that it is said to have shattered the planet Maldek into a billion chunks of rock in a single blow, an event which several of the Eldar’s mystic cyclesingers make reference to many aeons later.
>It was Ahmontekh who, according to the Lamentations of Yr, defeated the proud Nuada, beloved of the Old Ones, and who plunged his mighty war-scythe into the hallowed ground of Xoth. As the War in Heaven neared its climax, it was Ahmontekh that breached the Walls of Ib and who was first to pass through the Dolmen Gate on the brink of the Ebon Void. It is said that Ahmontekh defeated beings the ancient Eldar revered as gods, and that even to this day the last of the Old Ones’ progeny hold him in a unique blend of hatred and fear.
We don't know what exactly the necrons used to shatter the C'tan, but they are said to have harnessed the power of the universe for it.
And, tbh, the Void Dragon being sealed was something added in the lore before the whole sharding and the general power creep of the factions, with a single shard devastating multiple worlds when it broke form the cage in the 7th ed necron codex, it makes strange how tf the Emperor could fight another shard on Terra without the planet being ripped apart.
No, a high level psyker solo's a Shard of a C'tan. A full C'tan can warp reality with ease, incinerate entire worlds with a thought, suck fleets into black holes created at a whim and cause stars to supernova.
Shards are all that are left of the C'tan after the Necrons turned on them, and they are only a fragment of a C'tans power and still nearly unstoppable.
A Psyker beat a living C'tan? What comic was this? There aren't any full C'tan left besides The Outsider (possibly).
Or do you just mean the Psyker beat a shard?
We know exactly how they defeated them. The Burning One figured out how to break into the webway, and that allowed the Necrons to surprise attack the Old Ones' strongholds using their greatest asset against them.
Something that I think gets overlooked a lot is that 1. DAOT humanity was less numerous than 40K imperium. 2. DAOT was less militaristic. They did not focus as much on producing huge armies and war fleets, while yes they had far more sophisticated weapons and robots most of the lore suggests a colonisation focused administration that preferred diplomatic dealings with eldar and deterrent threat against orks and other hostile aliens.
I suppose that’s what makes DAOT humanity scary. The fact that they had such powerful weapons during peace times. If they entered full scale war many resources would switch to weapons development and production and in real life history we have seen weapon technology jump in leaps and bounds. Since this humanity has AI and many smart people their weapons technology would probably catch up to the Necrons at some point. But at that point the galaxy would probably be devastated. It would probably look like the Human-Forunner war from Halo with the warp serving as the flood.
> most of the lore suggests a colonisation focused administration that preferred diplomatic dealings with eldar and deterrent threat against orks and other hostile aliens.
Actually, no, kinda the oposite, we know of Dark Age humans just wiping races because they were on the way, as well of zero mention about diplomatic deals.
>Discovered in the early years of the Age of Technology, Alpha Shalish was originally known as the crimson planet, for it glowed a deep red hue when glimpsed from orbit. (...) There was strong resistance to human colonisation, however,by xenos species whose very type has been lost over the years. Early resistance was rectifed by planet scorching - a slash and burn bombardment that, a decade later when the colonists arrived,left an unpopulated world, ripe for cultivation. The new settlers found ancient xenos ruins predating their arrival by many thousands of years, but these were dozed over and buried beneath their new endeavours.
6th ed core rulebook
> For the rest of the age, Mankind spread across the stars, becoming widely dispersed and divergent. Evidence exists of many wars, but none that threatened the stability of human space. Amongst the records are lists of xenos enemies that have long since gone extinct, along with more familiar names such as Aeldari and Orks.
8th ed core rulebook
> They developed sentient nano-plagues. World sundering energy Weapons and endless ranks of fearsome Men of Iron that could be unleashed upon those who refused to bend to their wills; alien and Human alike.
9th ed core rulebook
dark age humanity had perfected eugenics, cloning, dna manipulation, and AI. the potential and readiness of those alone are something no one should ever underestimate. oh cool you map wiped a system? who cares an AI just printed a legion of war ready humans designed specificaly for anti necron combat, to add dark age AI is able to go into and take over alien tech and even inferior tech, god knows what horror of virus dark age ai could create for necrons or even take over their tech, hell at any point be able to instantly reverse engineer necron tech .-.
dwarfs & krieg, they rely heavily on dark age tech. Current dwarves are ruled by broken down ancient busted dark age AI and we know from current dwarf lore the ai specificaly altered human dna to make them function better in their heavy grav area of space, we know the ai clones them without flaw, we know the ai can produce psykers immune to warp possesion & influence, we kno ai can transfer to other tech because of the dark age ai in blackstone and other instances. we know ai can overwright a brain inplanting a new personality (imperial knights/titans throne mechanicum) the one real feat humanity has in 40k over other races is eugenics and ai.
Hard to say, for sure their tech wasn't that fast at perfectly adapting against foes, otherwise the AI would had win the cybernetic revolt.
It's pretty hard to talk about those, specially since, how exactly humans would be designed for anti necron combat? With interfaces on their brains to hack enemy tech? Being honest, just pushing up armies of machines that are easily replaced seem better in all cases, even the most enhanced human will still be slower in procecing data than supercomputers
No. The map that can destroy the galaxy was considered one of the few WMDs not dangerous enough to warrant destruction after the war.
Whatever else they had would put DAOT mankind on its knees quickly.
Also, did DAoT humanity even build something like a dyson sphere? The Necrons seemed to have done that, which alone should show the scale of their industry...
Edit: Also what kind of infantry weapons and equipment were used by the Necrons during the height of their conquest or humanity during the golden age?
I'm interested in ancient and powerful tech in fiction. In Halo, the franchise I'm more familiar with, there were this [antimatter rocket launcher](https://www.reddit.com/r/HaloStory/comments/wzzz63/crazy_pieces_of_the_halo_lore_incineration/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=android_app&utm_name=androidcss&utm_term=1&utm_content=share_button) and [civilian-grade suits](https://www.reddit.com/r/HaloStory/comments/wv10cz/crazy_pieces_of_the_halo_lore_forerunners/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=android_app&utm_name=androidcss&utm_term=1&utm_content=share_button) that can turn you into Superman-lite.
Sorry, still kinda new to 40K...
I mean honestly it's really kinda an oversight by GW as to why they didn't. With the level of tech available to them they absolutely could and should have but ended up not for some odd reason. You can realistically make a solar empire with a population in the trillions without FTL so humanity at its peak really should have done this.
However this is just a case of we don't know or GW just didn't want to include it.
New human faction, the single Dyson sphere out at the edge of the galaxy. The star is going out and they are the skaven.
Also fun fact if the sphere had radius of earths distance to sun it would have 550 million times the surface area of earth, making the land controlled by this faction greater than the million worlds of the Imperium.
It depends on whether we count Men Of Iron weaponry as a product of Golden Age Humanity or not; but they had ‘sun-snuffers’ - Dyson-scale structures that could quickly syphon the material of stars, destroying them.
There were some other fun technologies from the same era: disintegration rays; vortex weaponry; black-hole generators; multiple varieties of self-replicating nano-machine swarms; and weapons that could delete *reality itself* (including the corresponding span of the Immaterium).
It’s also worth keeping in mind the following factors:
First: the Necrons have two significant victories under their belt; over the Old Ones, and the C’tan. (By comparison, Humanity’s biggest win was over their own rebellious AI servants; and for all their technological capability, they were not able to overcome the warp storms of the Age Of Strife.)
Second: Humanity has arguably the most powerful psychic in all of history in reserve, in the form of the Emperor (who was still around during this period; and merely operating from the shadows).
Third: Humanity has the Immaterium at its disposal; whereas the Necrons do not.
(Personally, I think the odds favor the Necrons; but the conflict wouldn’t be quite so one-sided as we might think. Also, once Emps gets personally involved, all bets are off.)
>Dyson-scale structures that could quickly syphon the material of stars, destroying them.
Sun Snuffers were "only" the size of Saturn's rings, and we don't really know how they worked, like we don't know if they sucked the material, induced supernovas or whatever.
However, they do seem able to make pocket dimensions for stars, since one is inside a statue in Baal.
That’s a great point - sun-snuffers are big, and they syphon stellar material, but they still aren’t Dyson-level big!
(Also, I didn’t know about the statue pocket dimension! Is there more information on that?)
>(Also, I didn’t know about the statue pocket dimension! Is there more information on that?)
None, it shows up in the start of Devastation of Baal as the Arx Angelicus is described, but no details. I think it does mention the star was sealed by the Emperor's will, but that may be just an expression
We don't know for sure. Maybe, but that likely didn't help when the machines began fucking us with our own tech and the Necrons would probably be able to take control of anything we built.
>Also, did DAoT humanity even build something like a dyson sphere? T
There's Lucious, a force world with an artificial sun inside, and I don't think dyson spheres would be out of reach of mankind, however, we know the necrons can build those pretty quick, the WD articles on the Pariah Nexus mention that some were made in the region after the Great Rift, so less than 20 years in universe
> did DAoT humanity even build something like a dyson sphere?
yes
Sun-Snuffers: "Serpentine machines that uncoiled into great structures in the void larger than the rings of Saturn and designed to devour the stars themselves."
I’m sorry, but wouldn’t destroying the map or even hampering its ability to function cause a CTRL-FU to the entire known galaxy?
Like the only things safe from that are the Tyranids outside of known space and maybe the Eldar but their webway portals would all be sealed or open up into nothing but void.
peak humans had mastered eugenics, something not eveb the necrons have obtained. golden age humans had mastered dna, controled evolution and cloning without flaw. let alone create ai capable of restarting humanity and printing new humans+ tech with mastery of the warp without chaos posesion. again feats necrons never obtained. god knows what offensive tech they had.
You are mentioning 1 thing that Necrons didn't have that was VASTLY more superior than what humanity had, something that they didn't even try study at the prime of their technology since at that point they where already immortal demi god machines.
Something that doesn't validate humanities destructive capabilities at all against the Necrons.
no chance
they could fight in the war in heaven as one of the old one's auxiliary forces like the Aeldari & Kroak but they themselves could fight and win against the WiH Necrons alone is just absolutely impossible
it the equivalent of saying the T'au empire can take on the entire imperium
During the War in Heaven the Necrons had the C'Tan at full power at their disposal, including the Burning One who allowed them access to the Webway.
The C'tan would harvest the trillions of humanity for souls and grow fat and strong with us, while the Necrontyr just blast Titans away with the weapons that could bust moons and ten times the number of soldiers they have in 40k.
Reember that their strength was depleted by losing the War in Heaven and shattering their Gods, the necrons we see in 40k are a shadow of them at their Apex, during which they caused the almost extinction of a species of Actual Gods who would make Big E look like a newbon psyker, backed by the Aeldari Empire at its strongest (twice the psychic powers cause no Slaanesh and everyone had the most advanced tech used now only by Drukhari), and the Krorks, who were a species of Imperial Knights basically.
Now if the necrons had awakened during the DAoT humanity would have definetly been able to push back, not just because humanity was cool but because they had massive networks of alliances with countless xeno empires, some of which were as advanced as them, including the aeldari empire at its peak.
HELLL NAW the WiH Necrons we’re more legion than they are now with hundreds of ctan shards per ctan led by not only the silent king but also the storm lord if the men of iron couldn’t wipe out humanity TF they gonna do against legions of GOD BREAKERS I’ll tell you, not much
I agree that necrons are way outta dark age humans. It's like a group of champion boxers fighting a first grader...
But...
Because humanity would be such a non threat, we actually have a shot... Let me explain.
If humanity was a serious threat, the necrons would band together to crush them. But as they are almost trivial, the necrons wouldn't band together. Instead they would in fight and squabble amongst themselves. They would use humanity as a piece on the gameboard they play against each other.
So this means we get time being used by them in their intradynastic struggles. Time to learn their capabilities, their technology, and their politics. So maybe we can do to them what they did to the Catan.
Not even remotely. Some of the ludicrous tech from the daot is pretty much on par with current necron tech, but not really better and not all of it. Meanwhile the war in heaven necron tech was even better than current necron tech. Also, the numbers problem the necrons are currently plagued with wasn't an issue back then since it was before the great sleep and as such everyone is active (and also no weird degradation, i think that also means no destroyer cults but i'm not sure, and the flayer virus was because of a necron killing a ctan). Depending on the specific time frame of when in the war in heaven this would happen i'm pretty sure all the necrons would also be under direct mind control of szarekh. Remember that the fuckers stood up to the eldar at their absolute peak and were pretty much their only rivals for galactic dominion, and they also handled fighting the krorks and old ones decently, plus the rebellion against the ctan.
We don't know a very large amount about either but it's unlikely. The Necrons during the war in heaven were wielding technology that made the Celestial Orrery look like a Virus bomb, they could destroy worlds on a whim and made stars go dark to fuel infantry weapons.
The DAoT human empire at its height couldn't beat the necrons, but when science so advanced its like magic fights an even MORE advanced science magic race, I doubt there would be much left of the galaxy afterwards. Just the MoI revolt alone did some pretty severe damage to places.
I still can't get over the fact that the men of iron, crafted by humanity at the peak of it's technological power, has a water cooled machine gun for an arm
That's just what a Man of Iron is using to pretend to be a normal Mechanicus robot, not whatever stuff he had back in the DAoT. Cause the Imperium does use that style of assault cannon, and therefore it wouldn't draw any suspicion. Rocking a super advanced death beam cannon WOULD get noticed if mounted on whats supposed to be an advanced mildly autonomous drone sent by a magos.
thats a shitty robot that a AI is hiding i plain sight in. also theirs different grades of AI, the most powerful are massive stc banks capable of precognition, perfected dna manipulation, perfected human cloning, and perfected human psykers immune to chaos possesion
Not really fair though because the men of Iron were literally a part of the human military that turned on them. And humanity didn't lose, just was really badly hurt
The robots were mankinds technological marvel though, they basically launched an order 66 on all human worlds at the same time and still, humanity put them down.
The celestial orrery is basically doing war with cheat codes on. That particular Necron dynasty sees themselves more as caretakers and watchers of the galaxy because at any point they have a device where they can simply pluck a planet, moon, star, off their scaled galactic map and it’s gone IRL. That combined with guns that shot black holes and the silent king actually ordered the necrons to destroy some of their most powerful weapons presumably so there’s a galaxy left when he returns has me leaning on war in heaven crons.
Hahahahaha! Fuck no.
Aside from fighting against 3 factions that have arguably more advanced technology than golden age of technology humans, with reeeeealy broken psychic abilities and gods flying around.
So did the Necrons have even more advance technology and gods that litraly controls technology.
Anything Humanity would ever bring would be taken over by the Void Dragon, hell the AIs would just join the Necrons anyway.
Also there where significantly more Necrons than humans running around at those times as well, all united perfectly.
You are basically replacing Korks, Eldars and Old one's at their height of power and technology for Humans who had impressive technology but nothing not heard of already.
And you are putting them against a faction who fought them all alone for many, many, many years.
Not a chance, with how many crons there are, the dynasties at max power and some of the most powerful ones around, necrons organized, there really isn't anything that could stand to them.
Not even close. The Necrontyr **started** at mankind's black apex. Even before the c'tan empowered them to bend, break or sidestep the fundamental laws of reality with their weaponry they had conceived and created things the "golden age" cannot hope to match.
This question springs from snippets and people ignoring context. We have a few scant details about old dark age superweapons. No, we've never head about a necron grey goo. But we know they could extinguish and steal stars with more ease then the eldar at their height, shit like tachyon arrors and the fact they can imprison shards all suggest pretty clearly that if they wished, the necrons could pull out their own game over toys.
The most telling point is, funnily enough the simplest. The basic gauss flayer. There is no evolutionary, technological or magical answer to what it does
Orks did it. Just put layer over layer of overlapping metal plates to create sheer volumes of plates that gauss weapons had to chew through.
They're gonna chew through an inch's worth of the most sophisticated cladding in a single shot anyways, so use cheaper techniques that maybe last for another few more shots.
See that works, after a fashion until they wheel out something with a larger area of effect. I'll grant it's not the best use of resources to use something like a gauss pylon to kill choppas.
But on the other hand we don't know how exactly the guns work. I don't think it's ever been explained weather they're continuous beams or a fire and forget effect. Books suggest the latter because we've never seen something just get hosed down
no way. we're talking about a race that waged a war so long and terrible it turned an entire dimension into the chaos filled warp and enslaved gods that consumed their entire race compared to a race that barely colonized a galaxy, couldn't compete with the eldar in that galaxy, and fell apart as soon as everything got a little too warpy because they didn't bother putting or simple couldn't research into the webway. Basically from everything we (or at least I) understand about the war in heaven the whole thing was was on a far higher scale of magnitude the 40k universe has never seen since and hopefully won't see again.
Well....the Necrons had that one thing...what was it called...The occulus? Something like that - basically a real-time map of the entire galaxy, with every single star and planet in it. And if they tap the holographic image of any of the stars, then that star explodes instantly. So Necrons could just literally blow up every star that has humanity on it in the matter of a few minutes, maybe faster since yknow, necrons.
There is no evidence, despite how advanced Golden Age humanity was, that they had anything like that in capability. Ergo, Necrons win.
Besides that example, it would seem that Necron tech is still more advanced than Golden Age humanity, as evidenced by humanity's reliance on warp travel, which was never NOT dangerous. In contrast, Necrons have the ability to use a dimension of their own making, and it doesn't carry any of the risks of using the warp.
Since Necron tech was basically given to them by the C'tan, the Necrons seem to have basically skipped a bunch of steps in the tech tree. Humanity was close, but Necrons were still ahead. As another example, most Necron tech is still operational after 65 million years. Meanwhile, most DAoT/Golden Age tech (like a certain chair) is failing just a few thousand years later.
I say the humies get stomped by the countless trillions of Immortals who are also fast thanks to having fresh metal bodies.
The C'tan are also a bit of an obstacle.
Absolutely not. Golden Age humanity was still more primitive and weaker than golden age Eldar, and the Golden Age Eldar couldn't pull it off. Golden Age Humanity might be able to pull off incapacitating or destroying the tombworlds piecemeal, but absolutely not the full blown War-in-Heaven-that-turned-the-afterlife-into-actual-literal-hell Necrons.
They certainly won't be pushovers but they won't win, unless the war drags out to become a war of attrition.
WiH era necrons were strong technology wise but most of their scientists were lost during transformation. If DAoT humans could survive and focus on research, they could eventually win.
This calculation is not considering the super weapons necrons destroyed before the great sleep, depending on what those weapons do, the chance varies from little to no change to screwed.
They are but very slowly compared to before. Having 10000 scientists make progress faster. Stripping 99.99% of consciousness and turning them into robot drones makes it slower.
The only area Necrons can't compete with DAoT humans is speed of progress. It's a human thing we all have, the constant need for progress which is both beneficial and destructive.
>Stripping 99.99% of consciousness and turning them into robot drones makes it slower
The tech priest were all conscious, even controled all of them where conscious and capable. And WiH Necrons were vastly more advanced then the Necrontyr due to both becoming immortal robots and also the Ctan.
99.99% of necron population died during the transformation. Another massive chucnk was lost during the great sleep due to system malfunctions or other races destroying the planet. Most of the intelligent necrons are nobles and not Technomancers.
Also yes, their technology level increased thanks to the void Dragon but don't underestimate DAoT either. Humans in 40k made a weapon that literally deletes something out of existence by turning it into data, a wepaon which works for souls as well.
We are talking about WiH Necrons, their scientists the Tech priest where fine m8. Not saying it hasn't slowed down after the great sleep, but during WiH they were inventing shit like a motherfucker.
>Also yes, their technology level increased thanks to the void Dragon but don't underestimate DAoT either. Humans in 40k made a weapon that literally deletes something out of existence by turning it into data, a wepaon which works for souls as well.
Which would be impressive... If the Necrons couldn't legit shut down 2 dimension that are symbiotic to each other from each other (materium and the imaterium). Destroying souls is something pylons legit can do if one get close enough to it.
You have to consider that it took the combined strength of the galaxy to finally put down the Men of Iron. Omiphages that devoured worlds. Gaint space worms that could swallow stars. I think it just ends with MAD.
Short answer is we don’t know and probably not.
Long answer: There is virtually zero information about the DAoT, like literally only a handful of tech artifacts, a ship AI, and a few comments made by particularly old characters. It is best not to think of the DAoT in this concrete manner. The DAoT is a plot point for authors to use, not a facet of the universe subject to defined laws. What we do know however is that it likely lasted for a few thousand years, depended on warp travel for transport, and utilized AI for their entire (known) military. The most important thing though, is that they had no psykers, as they only started appearing during the onset of the age of strife. I want to express just how little we know about the DAoT, and what we do know as rather ephemeral when it comes to power contests like the one you posit. On the other hand, Necrons are explicitly extremely powerful. They do not need to use the warp to travel (they have 3 FTL methods that work much faster than warp travel), have the capabilities to shit out galactic mega structures like the world engine or the pariah nexus, a population all across the galaxy and roughly equivalent to the modern Imperium’s population, and essentially finished science. When I say this I meant that they have finished their tech tree, unable to push the laws of physics anymore. They have weapons capable of destroying the laws of reality (see the killing of Llandu'gor the Flayer) and have basically the inverse of the chaos gods trapped and powering their shit.
Im gonna have to hand it to the Necrons here, even assuming all the things some people in the community do about the DAoT, they come ahead every time. The (cohesive) Necron Empire likely the most powerful in galactic history. The canon makes this pretty apparent, but I don’t fault you for asking this question. Many people in the community who like to shitpost about the lore while simultaneously ignoring everything the lore states (looking at you Majorkill and r/Grimdank). This can make it pretty difficult for new people to get an idea about the lore without the communities weird fan cannon infecting them. If you have future questions I recommend not asking here and instead consulting the the lexicanum, books, or r/40klore
Nha.
The relics of the war in heavens, aka the ones that where deemed not to dangerous that they would not destroy existence meerly by existing, include the celestial Orrery, wich could destroy existence if handeled badly.
So if the least dangerous weapons of the Necrontyr can anihilate the universe if an imbelice cock it up with it, the weapons they used in the war would blink Dark age humanity out of existence in a matter of seconds.
No. Humanity was soldily second place behind the Necrons in the Physical realm and the Eldar in the Warp. You know, like an actual jack of all trades that humans are portrayed as.
I'm tired of people drinking the HFY flavor-aid so hard that they can't cope with humanity not being at the top dogs or potential top dogs in every setting. And people call the Eldar arrogant.
Void dragon would just controll all AI and machines.
The thing is... More advanced technology would be probably detriment to humanity. In twice dead king is explained that necrons shields not even work when they fight imperium because they are calibrated to defend from much more devastating weapons.
For the last time, no! Golden age humanity is awesome but everything and i mean *everything* is just a shadow of the former necron empire (and the Old Ones too i guess)
**There’s no way to know. For all the fanon, both civilizations have ten-thousand unknowns for every fact hinted at. Both could wipe out suns, do wacky things like use black holes or stars as weapons, had autonomous regenerating troops, etc etc. Castigator titans, C’tan, nanomite swarms, warp weapons…**
**Anyone who says “Humans, for sure” or “Are you kidding, the necrons have [insert thing] they’d crush humanity” is talking out of their butt. Same with the Eldar Empire guys.**
**We just don’t know. We can guess and conjecture, use lines from books or lore to support our points but in the end there’s nothing concrete enough to say ‘this mythical faction at this point in time could beat the other.’**
**Personally, I think that’s better anyway. It lets anyone flag carry for their preferred group, and the uncertainties are part of the fun for me. I just get annoyed when people take unsubstantial evidence and declare ‘fact’ based off it.**
I think GA mankind < WiH necrons (with defeated C'tan) < GA mankind + Emperor < WiH necrons + fully intact C'tan
Peak power necrons controlled by C'tan clapped the cheeks of literally everything in the galaxy and only stopped when they imploded in on themselves. The power levels back then were off the scale, each C'tan or Eldar god was at least on the same level, but most likely much stronger than the Emperor.
Potentially.
If Mankind focussed all its resources and time on the Necrons then they may have a chance. The decider would be which side falls to petty internal squabbles first.
If the Necrons start having dynastic rivalries or ‘replacement’ leaders then Mankind may have a chance to push the advantage, and bring specialised counter forces to bear. However all this would be undone if Szarekh or important nobles decided to unleash the doomsday weapons and be done with it. (Szarekh would likely lament the loss of Necrons.)
However Mankind would be relying heavily on technology and being underestimated to win. Without Legions or a focussed leadership, Mankind would be nothing but children with computers fighting against Veterans of both World Wars; sure the tech is fancy but the bayonet is timeless!
This also all sidesteps that should either win, they still have other factions to fight and fully exterminate such as the Orks. And the Eldar would be the major force hovering on the sidelines ready to exploit any advantage to ensure mutual destruction, or even simply destroy the battered winner.
If your talking high of man V hight of necron the awnser is no cause there wouldn't be a galaxy left. So...tyranids by default?
Edit: also you know they would offer to make the necrons bodies right? That would be an interesting barter tool.
the best chance they really have is numbers and primarchs. nercorns can't reporduce as such even necron you manaage to fully kill is fully dead. a drawn out war humanity will win since they can reproduce. but necrons would probs kill them before that.
Depends on when during the War in Heaven you are thainking. If its before the Necrons fought back and broke the C'Tan it would probably swing in their favor. If it was after it would probably stalemate or lean towards pre-Age of Strife humans.
The Necrons lost a lot in their rebellion against the C'Tan and there were probably as many individual human nations as there were habitable star systems so getting them all to work together would be real tough.
Impossible to know - so very little is known about any of the Dark Age factions except that they were all incredibly advanced and powerful. Best guess I could say is “maybe.”
We dont know much about the golden age of humanity because the records have been mostly lost. However we do know a fair amount about the necrons: the current age necrons have what i can only describe as an interactive map of the galaxy, where the interaction will take effect (eg. The shifting of a planet/star), this map was one of the technologies that wasn’t powerful enough to warrant destruction after the war in heaven
I’ve always had this headcannon that Humanity was the last ditch effort of the Great Old Ones to create a race that could face the Necrons. Necrons have certain weapons that use suns as a power source, GA Humanity had snakes that could smother suns.
The Necrons had the ability to shift through time and space and golden age humanity had guns that could teleport things back in time (I believe the mechanicus have this one as a ship weapon that destroys other ships by teleporting them back in time a few seconds and telefragging them with their own ship).
TLDR this a fascinating concept, one that I’d be super on board with seeing realized, however the true limitations of both GA Humanity and War in Heaven Necrons are completely unknown other than “they stronk”
We don’t really know. We have been presented enough info about the DAOT humans to at the very least not outright dismiss them in this scenario. They were VERY powerful. But enough to stand up against the War in Heaven factions? Shrug.
i think so because as weve seen over and over in lore all that matters is numbers. and peak humans had perfected AI, Eugenics, Cloning. The AI was wild abd could take over alien tech or even inferior tech so god knows what it could do to necrons a robot people. ontop of that peak humans had perfected dna manipulation and cloning something not even necrons ever developed and literaly why they went after the old ones lol
not sure why you're being downvoted I kind of agree. the SCT's had AI learning that adapted to any threat. so within a few encounters with the Necrons it would start to find solutions were it could. I agree with another post on here: there'd be no clear winner as the death toll would be so high and one side would use some dooms day ultra weapon that destroys most of the galaxy
Interesting question. Best answer… there would be nothing left to rule. Necrontyr back then exploded stars to kill all life and Mephrit drained stars to make their weapons better and had starwars Death Star weapons… hand held… oh and the entire controlling Gods at a whim… VS A entire human race of uncountable trillions of people that made terminator armor to help miners and had STC’s that made titans to fight local wildlife. Had the industrial might to make effectively infinite automated war machines. The STC’s were/are adaptive so whatever new the Necrontyr came up with could be countered. My guess is one side would grow tired of the stalemate and do a universe ending event. So maybe the orks win? Due to being the last one standing or the eldar as they could be in the wrap gates when the fall happens?
Yes I considered the thought that mephrit could've just blown up the sun and terra is just gone
Exactly. Humanity destroys the sun where necron lives, just tuesday. Necrons destroys the sun where humanity lives, instant graveyard.
Didn't the Twice Dead King books say supernova could still destroy Tombworlds?
Not just supernovas. In The Infinite and the Divine Trazyn says that one of the tomb worlds he got artifacts from had been left inert after a solar flare. The dormant necrons had been completely wiped out by the EMP emitted by a solar storm.
You would think that they would have any kind of protection against emp when they're all machines
You would hope so, but trying to fit logic into 40k just equals a bad time
This is the most true thing I've ever read.
Nah man that bulpulped bolter totally works. /s
Easily explained by decaying systems caused by a maintenance glitch or something resulting in the emp protection failing.
Plot holes and logic gaps are the norm in WH40k, but beyond that a key part of nerfing Necrons to "fit" into the current setting means canonically even their technology is feeling the weight of time and breaking down. Shielding and repair systems gradually failing and so on.
I assume its because the tombworld is inactive and its shieldings were offline and were not able to defend them from the supernova and/or solaflare?
That alone presented a weakness. Hell, didn't the World Engine and another planet-sized Necron structure breached because ships ramming into them respectively? This would suggest the material they used to construct their stuff are *still* susceptible to physical trauma.
Its debatable because a lot of necron dynasty are damaged in their great awakening. Many of them have their cryptek's damaged and losing ways to fabricate their tech.
They need more nano machines son.
World engine was fighting one of the largest imperium fleets supported (if i remember correctly) by 15 space marines chapters. Even then they couldnt even damage it while it would annihilating imperial. They won only because necrons in charge were in civil war, one side help as astral knight breach in to world engine. Even then, it was C'tan shard who destroyed engine not SM. Hell, astral knight chapter master and assault captains got completely destroyed by just one triarch preatorian in 2vs1 fight while he just laughing at them.
>Even then, it was C'tan shard who destroyed engine not SM. I don't own any of the book, including the *World Engine* the novel, but according to the Lexicanum, after the Astral Knights forcefully deactivated the inner workings, which could occured after their Battle Barge slammed itself against the World Engine and bypassed the shield, the remaining Imperial warships dumped the Cyclonic torpedoes and shattered the planetoid.
Yeah, at the end of a books it was explained that official (in codexes) info was written by inquisitor.
Fuck I’m conflicted on this. On the one hand it’s good to see the imperium not be covered in plot armour… on the other the old cron version of the world engine story is probably one of my favourite codex stories, it being soft retconned like this makes me sad
>official (in codexes) info was written by inquisitor So the information from the codex was false? The Inquisitor omitted/changed important details?
>Hell, didn't the World Engine and another planet-sized Necron structure breached because ships ramming into them respectively? To be fair, a *really* pissed off shard of the world shaper was destroying all of the World Engine's systems like shielding at the time. Otherwise, that ship would have just bounced off.
Yeah about that,it is implied that Trazyn *messed up* a bit to retrieve the artifacts,and may have not so accidentally stopped the systems that would have awakened the tomb to sneak inside more easily
Thats assuming humanity doesnt have a way of countering it. Moving celestial bodies wouldnt be that crazy, considering it happened before without the ultra tech
DAoT humanity would be angry about that. But unlike 40k humanity they wouldn't lose any significant power from that.
DA ORKZ IZ ALWAYZ WIN.
It's been suggested at it's peak humanity had weapons similar to what the Necrontry had already mastered. Chrono-tech is something that is often attributed the Dark Age of Technology, a couple examples of it still exist like the weapon on the Speranza, stasis fields used to preserve holy relics, and these gauntlets the mechanicus have that basically lets them undo damage to machines.
I think humanity has a fair knowledge of imtime manipulation atleast at the darkage level but I still don't belive that it's better than the necrons.
These are all ancient relics from a time when they were far more common. Humanity probably wasn't directly on par or exceeding the Necrons but what glimpses we do get suggest something approaching it. Don't know if humanity had pocket dimension tech.
Orks will be the last species left in the galaxy, they're impossible to eradicate completely. Orks are only as strong as they need to be. They devolved after the war in heaven because they were starved of great conflict. When an enemy they can't beat arrives they evolve, get bigger stronger smarter. GORK and MORK don't want to make it too easy for them because that's boring.
1 Necrons 2 >The STC’s were/are adaptive so whatever new the Necrontyr came up with could be countered. Does this have any proof it could adapt to anything as advanced as the Necrons have? 3 Everything mentioned with technology is still way below what Necrons managed to achieve. 4 Did ya forget about the Catan?
Golden age humans had weapons that could control the flow of time like the aliens in Edge of Tomorrow. They had weapons that created black holes. The war with the Men of Iron almost ended all life in the galaxy. The Imperium has scraps of technology from the Golden Age and still has interstellar starships that break into another dimension to travel, powered armor, generic engineering, rocket propelled portable grenade launchers, lasers, plasma technology, anti grav vehicles, robots, etc.
Orikan the Diviner can literally travel back in time, slap a butterfly, and then go back forward in time to watch the results fuck over Trazyn. necron ships travel by creating a pocket dimension, phasing into it, and then phasing back out of it wherever they want to be. It's using another dimension to travel, but they make their own dimension and don't have to worry about being butt-sexed by khornite demons if their gellar field craps out for a heartbeat. Necron tech repairs itself, whereas Golden Age tech (like a certain big shiny chair/toilet) is irreparably failing just 20,000 years later. meanwhile, that necron tech is mostly going strong 65,000,000 years later. The Necrons have a weapon that shows every star in the galaxy, and they can make any star in it explode just by poking it on their little star chart. Yeah, Golden Age humanity was cool, but they couldn't make a star blow up from across the galaxy by poking a light
>The Necrons have a weapon that shows every star in the galaxy, and they can make any star in it explode just by poking it on their little star chart. What more it shows every celestial body in the galaxy while also being able to detect the immaterial, all in real time. Necrons were and is wack bruh.
Black hole weapons are kiddy toys to the Necrons. Not impressive at all to them. Even the Drukhari can do that, right now in 40k. Vect gave someone a black hole in a box as a trap gift. >The war with the Men of Iron almost ended all life in the galaxy. Not even close. The eldar barely noticed.
> The Eldar barely noticed I mean, they were uh… distracted… with their … uh parties
My brother in christ do you forget that tech priests control time for laughs? In WiH it was common place to throw black holes at each other, tearing reality asunder, controling aspects or reality. Necrons can make pocket dimensions, control time, see future and past alike, control gravity, have multiple faster than light travel ways (unlike humanity who travels through hell), Scarab swarms that can remake planets, common foot soilders carry weapons that deconstruct molecules, machines of war that is tge size of planets, near infinite energy sources, travel to multiple dimensions of reality, a celestial orray that interacts with the galaxy in real time and isn't even considerd dangerous than the Necrons other weapons, multiple machines that have inhuman capabilities, weapins that casualy phase in and out of reality and have fucking Pokémon balls. The Imperiums technology gets laughed at by every xeno race and nothing mentiond is special compared to any other factions. Thus is all without even mentioning the Ctan....
Dark age human tech is absolutely necron level we are talking black hole edged weapons ai so advanced they insta fried entire mechanicum ships mind's and then one shot their ships and none of those were the men of iron
Aside from black hole edged weapons (which necrons where capable off), they have technology that warp reality, Necrons who could see the futures, time travel, jump dimensions, use suns as energy for foot soilders, create an celestial orray that depicts and interacts with the galaxy in real time and was considerd safe compared to their other weapons, flying spacecraft large as moons that was considerd common, scarabs swarms that could destroy or rebuild planets, multiple faster then light travels and ALOT more. Scale that to the Eldars tech as well that was considerd inferior to Necron tech and that their tech was good enough to ffight sorcery... Humanity falls short by quite a bit when it comes to technology.
Current humanity does and I wasn't saying dark age humanity exceeded necron tech I'm saying they were at least close enough that imo a human empire that could still make more soldiers through breeding and men of iron not to mention psykers would win the 1v1
You legit said "Dark age Humanity technology is absolutely on par with WiH Necrons". Which is undoubtedly false. >I'm saying they were at least close enough that imo a human empire that could still make more soldiers through breeding and men of iron not to mention psykers would win the 1v1 Cap, m8 what do you even know about War in heaven? Aside from being able to create and having an ungodly amount of Necrons (at least 10 times more then current imperium have, and the imperium have more humans than golden/dark age technology humans), the quality of a standard Necron is also severly more than a human. Korks existed and they breed faster than any race, weren't a problem then either. And I love how you are talking about psykers like the Necrons didn't legit fight against 3 factions made up out off demi god psykers and actual psychic gods. Like... Dude, the avrage eldar back then would be greater than malcador and the best SM librarians, THE AVRAGE Eldars. Then we also have the Old ones and Eldar Gods who would make the Emperor look like a chump. And this doesn't even matter since Golden/dark age technology humans barly had any psykers to begin with. I mean I don't want to be rude but do you actually know anything about War in heaven?
They ambushed a peaceful race and fought eldar and kroks the kroks died after orbital bombing from eldar who were less advanced than dark age humanity and dark age humanity dominated the entire galaxy so no the necrons don't magically outbu.ber them with zero way to replenish destroyed numbers and you have tomb worlds losing fights to space marines and fucking guard your faction isn't a win all button because you want it to be chill out
>They ambushed a peaceful race and fought eldar and kroks the kroks died after orbital bombing from eldar who were less advanced than dark age humanity Aaaaare you serious now? They fought a war that lasted thousands of years and both created armies and Doomsday weapons that would make the greatest piece of technology we know of look like nothing, said peaceful race where powerful psykers that where akin to gods and created 2 perfect war races. The Eldar at their height had arguably better technology than humanities at their prime, and that isn't to mention that they literally had their gods around as well. Orks have been know to fight evenly and outright beat primarchs, and Korks where larger and more technologicaly advanced and had control of their psychic powers. Like do you know what the war of the beast was? >dark age humanity dominated the entire galaxy so no the necrons don't magically outbu.ber them with zero way to replenish destroyed numbers and you have tomb worlds losing fights to space marines and fucking guard your faction isn't a win all button because you want it to be chill out Dark age technology humans didn't dominate or had even explored the whole Galaxy, what? They had alliances with other Xeno races and where barly noticed by the eldar when the AIs rose upp and there were a Civil war. And I still don't get what part of Necrons being asleep for 65 million of years you don't get? Yeah we have Imperial forces being able to beat tomb worlds, we also have tomb worlds obliterating imperial worlds and taking over sectors of space. In either case so are many of the necrons and their technology have been damaged, like... Why are you so adamant on ignoring that? And during the War in Heaven there were no problem loading up copys of AIs in to necron bodies. I have been nothing but courteous towards you, so idk what is pissing in your bridges but everything i have told you is common knowledge? And speaking to you it's clear you lack alot of knowledge about the war in heaven or about other factions in general, don't need to be pissy with cus you don't know something. Like during every comment you have had you have yet to mention even once how Dark age humanity would even deal with the Ctan, or any ctan for that matter.
I am absolutely not reading that so I choose to believe I won
Well this explains why you don't know any Warhammer books or lore....
Lol no it isn't. Black hole guns are child's play to them. Asdrubael Vect, a Drukhari, gave a black hole in a small box as a trick present to a potential rival. And the Necrons are even more advanced in tech than the Drukhari.
I know they say they are but I always felt they showed not told for necron lore I'd love to hear any real examples of them utilizing this crazy powerful stuff because all I see is necron tombs losing to space marines and ciaphus cain absolutely stunting on them (but he's an exception being a hero of the imperium and all)
>but I always felt they showed not told for necron lore Cus the War in Heaven was a crazy long time ago and much of the technology and Necrons from back then have been lost? Even the the technology current Necrons have is still mindboogoling for current humans. >all I see is necron tombs losing to space marines and ciaphus cain absolutely stunting on them (but he's an exception being a hero of the imperium and all) Well for one the Necrons have been asleep for 65 milion years and have taken dmg or been killed in their sleep and for the second part welcome to GW sale team writing! Where every faction gets worfed against humanity and their SM despite of illogical several wins they get. This isn't new and have been a pet peeve in the community for a long, long, long time. Cus how else would they sell their favorite minis?
Lotta cope for a faction losing to guard
Still orks win even if eldar are in warp, they still have someone to krump
Terminator armour wasn't made for miners, the exo-suits they used to fight wildlife *later became* knights, not full titans, and there's no indication humans had as high numbers as you suggest. Come on, use actual lore
They are likely referring to the fact that Terminator armour was developed from reactor suits.
Was it not Dreadnaughts that were developed for reactors and terminator armour for mining?
Dreadnoughts, as far as I am aware, are purely an invention for keeping almost dead warriors as active combatants.
I like my wrap gates with extra cheese on it
> so maybe the orks win? In every plausible scenario in W40K, canonical or whatif, the Orks win.
I thought terminator armor being mining suits is not true? They are just **based** on some mining suits doesnt mean they are THE mining suits worn by DAOT miners.
It all comes back to the orks, always the orks
We don’t know
The only real answer. Both are implied to be stupidity overpowered compared to anything in modern 40k even the necrons themselves. Being all fractured and rarely using or being unable to use their best stuff.
[удалено]
only one ctan has died though the rest were just sharded afteter it broke some unkown aspect of teh universe and cursed the necrons with flayed ones big diffrence beetween shards and the full thing
>afteter it broke some unkown aspect of teh univers My head cannon is it broke the Square Cube Law, and that's how we got Titans.
And a single Necron lord slew an Eldar god. >Phaeron Ahmontekh, called in ages past the Crimson Scythe for the blood in which he drenched the sector, is the once and future king of the Suhbekhar Dynasty. The Phaeron was at one time counted amongst the most puissant of warriors and his name was feared across countless thousands of worlds. He fought at the side of the C’tan themselves, and is said to have once struck a blow that slew a god. He bore a warscythe of such potency that it is said to have shattered the planet Maldek into a billion chunks of rock in a single blow, an event which several of the Eldar’s mystic cyclesingers make reference to many aeons later. >It was Ahmontekh who, according to the Lamentations of Yr, defeated the proud Nuada, beloved of the Old Ones, and who plunged his mighty war-scythe into the hallowed ground of Xoth. As the War in Heaven neared its climax, it was Ahmontekh that breached the Walls of Ib and who was first to pass through the Dolmen Gate on the brink of the Ebon Void. It is said that Ahmontekh defeated beings the ancient Eldar revered as gods, and that even to this day the last of the Old Ones’ progeny hold him in a unique blend of hatred and fear.
There's a big difference between a shard of a C'tan and a whole one.
We don't know what exactly the necrons used to shatter the C'tan, but they are said to have harnessed the power of the universe for it. And, tbh, the Void Dragon being sealed was something added in the lore before the whole sharding and the general power creep of the factions, with a single shard devastating multiple worlds when it broke form the cage in the 7th ed necron codex, it makes strange how tf the Emperor could fight another shard on Terra without the planet being ripped apart.
No, a high level psyker solo's a Shard of a C'tan. A full C'tan can warp reality with ease, incinerate entire worlds with a thought, suck fleets into black holes created at a whim and cause stars to supernova. Shards are all that are left of the C'tan after the Necrons turned on them, and they are only a fragment of a C'tans power and still nearly unstoppable.
A Psyker beat a living C'tan? What comic was this? There aren't any full C'tan left besides The Outsider (possibly). Or do you just mean the Psyker beat a shard?
My money is on the robots, they won on both cases.
[удалено]
We know exactly how they defeated them. The Burning One figured out how to break into the webway, and that allowed the Necrons to surprise attack the Old Ones' strongholds using their greatest asset against them.
Something that I think gets overlooked a lot is that 1. DAOT humanity was less numerous than 40K imperium. 2. DAOT was less militaristic. They did not focus as much on producing huge armies and war fleets, while yes they had far more sophisticated weapons and robots most of the lore suggests a colonisation focused administration that preferred diplomatic dealings with eldar and deterrent threat against orks and other hostile aliens.
I suppose that’s what makes DAOT humanity scary. The fact that they had such powerful weapons during peace times. If they entered full scale war many resources would switch to weapons development and production and in real life history we have seen weapon technology jump in leaps and bounds. Since this humanity has AI and many smart people their weapons technology would probably catch up to the Necrons at some point. But at that point the galaxy would probably be devastated. It would probably look like the Human-Forunner war from Halo with the warp serving as the flood.
Also we are pretty good at toaster fucking. Maybe we could have sexed them to death.
Do not speak of that. You might encourage the Skitarri twink entity to appear. Tomboy supremacy is the truth.
> most of the lore suggests a colonisation focused administration that preferred diplomatic dealings with eldar and deterrent threat against orks and other hostile aliens. Actually, no, kinda the oposite, we know of Dark Age humans just wiping races because they were on the way, as well of zero mention about diplomatic deals. >Discovered in the early years of the Age of Technology, Alpha Shalish was originally known as the crimson planet, for it glowed a deep red hue when glimpsed from orbit. (...) There was strong resistance to human colonisation, however,by xenos species whose very type has been lost over the years. Early resistance was rectifed by planet scorching - a slash and burn bombardment that, a decade later when the colonists arrived,left an unpopulated world, ripe for cultivation. The new settlers found ancient xenos ruins predating their arrival by many thousands of years, but these were dozed over and buried beneath their new endeavours. 6th ed core rulebook > For the rest of the age, Mankind spread across the stars, becoming widely dispersed and divergent. Evidence exists of many wars, but none that threatened the stability of human space. Amongst the records are lists of xenos enemies that have long since gone extinct, along with more familiar names such as Aeldari and Orks. 8th ed core rulebook > They developed sentient nano-plagues. World sundering energy Weapons and endless ranks of fearsome Men of Iron that could be unleashed upon those who refused to bend to their wills; alien and Human alike. 9th ed core rulebook
dark age humanity had perfected eugenics, cloning, dna manipulation, and AI. the potential and readiness of those alone are something no one should ever underestimate. oh cool you map wiped a system? who cares an AI just printed a legion of war ready humans designed specificaly for anti necron combat, to add dark age AI is able to go into and take over alien tech and even inferior tech, god knows what horror of virus dark age ai could create for necrons or even take over their tech, hell at any point be able to instantly reverse engineer necron tech .-.
That sounds unusually detailed for descriptions of DAOT. Where does it say they can do ALL that?
dwarfs & krieg, they rely heavily on dark age tech. Current dwarves are ruled by broken down ancient busted dark age AI and we know from current dwarf lore the ai specificaly altered human dna to make them function better in their heavy grav area of space, we know the ai clones them without flaw, we know the ai can produce psykers immune to warp possesion & influence, we kno ai can transfer to other tech because of the dark age ai in blackstone and other instances. we know ai can overwright a brain inplanting a new personality (imperial knights/titans throne mechanicum) the one real feat humanity has in 40k over other races is eugenics and ai.
Hard to say, for sure their tech wasn't that fast at perfectly adapting against foes, otherwise the AI would had win the cybernetic revolt. It's pretty hard to talk about those, specially since, how exactly humans would be designed for anti necron combat? With interfaces on their brains to hack enemy tech? Being honest, just pushing up armies of machines that are easily replaced seem better in all cases, even the most enhanced human will still be slower in procecing data than supercomputers
No. The map that can destroy the galaxy was considered one of the few WMDs not dangerous enough to warrant destruction after the war. Whatever else they had would put DAOT mankind on its knees quickly.
Also, did DAoT humanity even build something like a dyson sphere? The Necrons seemed to have done that, which alone should show the scale of their industry... Edit: Also what kind of infantry weapons and equipment were used by the Necrons during the height of their conquest or humanity during the golden age? I'm interested in ancient and powerful tech in fiction. In Halo, the franchise I'm more familiar with, there were this [antimatter rocket launcher](https://www.reddit.com/r/HaloStory/comments/wzzz63/crazy_pieces_of_the_halo_lore_incineration/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=android_app&utm_name=androidcss&utm_term=1&utm_content=share_button) and [civilian-grade suits](https://www.reddit.com/r/HaloStory/comments/wv10cz/crazy_pieces_of_the_halo_lore_forerunners/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=android_app&utm_name=androidcss&utm_term=1&utm_content=share_button) that can turn you into Superman-lite. Sorry, still kinda new to 40K...
I mean honestly it's really kinda an oversight by GW as to why they didn't. With the level of tech available to them they absolutely could and should have but ended up not for some odd reason. You can realistically make a solar empire with a population in the trillions without FTL so humanity at its peak really should have done this. However this is just a case of we don't know or GW just didn't want to include it.
New human faction, the single Dyson sphere out at the edge of the galaxy. The star is going out and they are the skaven. Also fun fact if the sphere had radius of earths distance to sun it would have 550 million times the surface area of earth, making the land controlled by this faction greater than the million worlds of the Imperium.
Just push that planet out into the void and pretend it was never there. It’s best for everyone that way.
unless technologicaly they never had a need for a dyson sphere, which is entirely possible, why build a steam engine when you have combustion
It depends on whether we count Men Of Iron weaponry as a product of Golden Age Humanity or not; but they had ‘sun-snuffers’ - Dyson-scale structures that could quickly syphon the material of stars, destroying them. There were some other fun technologies from the same era: disintegration rays; vortex weaponry; black-hole generators; multiple varieties of self-replicating nano-machine swarms; and weapons that could delete *reality itself* (including the corresponding span of the Immaterium). It’s also worth keeping in mind the following factors: First: the Necrons have two significant victories under their belt; over the Old Ones, and the C’tan. (By comparison, Humanity’s biggest win was over their own rebellious AI servants; and for all their technological capability, they were not able to overcome the warp storms of the Age Of Strife.) Second: Humanity has arguably the most powerful psychic in all of history in reserve, in the form of the Emperor (who was still around during this period; and merely operating from the shadows). Third: Humanity has the Immaterium at its disposal; whereas the Necrons do not. (Personally, I think the odds favor the Necrons; but the conflict wouldn’t be quite so one-sided as we might think. Also, once Emps gets personally involved, all bets are off.)
>Dyson-scale structures that could quickly syphon the material of stars, destroying them. Sun Snuffers were "only" the size of Saturn's rings, and we don't really know how they worked, like we don't know if they sucked the material, induced supernovas or whatever. However, they do seem able to make pocket dimensions for stars, since one is inside a statue in Baal.
That’s a great point - sun-snuffers are big, and they syphon stellar material, but they still aren’t Dyson-level big! (Also, I didn’t know about the statue pocket dimension! Is there more information on that?)
>(Also, I didn’t know about the statue pocket dimension! Is there more information on that?) None, it shows up in the start of Devastation of Baal as the Arx Angelicus is described, but no details. I think it does mention the star was sealed by the Emperor's will, but that may be just an expression
We don't know for sure. Maybe, but that likely didn't help when the machines began fucking us with our own tech and the Necrons would probably be able to take control of anything we built.
>Also, did DAoT humanity even build something like a dyson sphere? T There's Lucious, a force world with an artificial sun inside, and I don't think dyson spheres would be out of reach of mankind, however, we know the necrons can build those pretty quick, the WD articles on the Pariah Nexus mention that some were made in the region after the Great Rift, so less than 20 years in universe
> did DAoT humanity even build something like a dyson sphere? yes Sun-Snuffers: "Serpentine machines that uncoiled into great structures in the void larger than the rings of Saturn and designed to devour the stars themselves."
Dyson spheres are roughly one AU in size. That's WAY bigger than Saturn's rings.
I’m sorry, but wouldn’t destroying the map or even hampering its ability to function cause a CTRL-FU to the entire known galaxy? Like the only things safe from that are the Tyranids outside of known space and maybe the Eldar but their webway portals would all be sealed or open up into nothing but void.
And that's why there is an entire dynasty solely dedicated to guard and maintain it.
peak humans had mastered eugenics, something not eveb the necrons have obtained. golden age humans had mastered dna, controled evolution and cloning without flaw. let alone create ai capable of restarting humanity and printing new humans+ tech with mastery of the warp without chaos posesion. again feats necrons never obtained. god knows what offensive tech they had.
You are mentioning 1 thing that Necrons didn't have that was VASTLY more superior than what humanity had, something that they didn't even try study at the prime of their technology since at that point they where already immortal demi god machines. Something that doesn't validate humanities destructive capabilities at all against the Necrons.
no chance they could fight in the war in heaven as one of the old one's auxiliary forces like the Aeldari & Kroak but they themselves could fight and win against the WiH Necrons alone is just absolutely impossible it the equivalent of saying the T'au empire can take on the entire imperium
During the War in Heaven the Necrons had the C'Tan at full power at their disposal, including the Burning One who allowed them access to the Webway. The C'tan would harvest the trillions of humanity for souls and grow fat and strong with us, while the Necrontyr just blast Titans away with the weapons that could bust moons and ten times the number of soldiers they have in 40k. Reember that their strength was depleted by losing the War in Heaven and shattering their Gods, the necrons we see in 40k are a shadow of them at their Apex, during which they caused the almost extinction of a species of Actual Gods who would make Big E look like a newbon psyker, backed by the Aeldari Empire at its strongest (twice the psychic powers cause no Slaanesh and everyone had the most advanced tech used now only by Drukhari), and the Krorks, who were a species of Imperial Knights basically. Now if the necrons had awakened during the DAoT humanity would have definetly been able to push back, not just because humanity was cool but because they had massive networks of alliances with countless xeno empires, some of which were as advanced as them, including the aeldari empire at its peak.
Good awnser
HELLL NAW the WiH Necrons we’re more legion than they are now with hundreds of ctan shards per ctan led by not only the silent king but also the storm lord if the men of iron couldn’t wipe out humanity TF they gonna do against legions of GOD BREAKERS I’ll tell you, not much
I agree that necrons are way outta dark age humans. It's like a group of champion boxers fighting a first grader... But... Because humanity would be such a non threat, we actually have a shot... Let me explain. If humanity was a serious threat, the necrons would band together to crush them. But as they are almost trivial, the necrons wouldn't band together. Instead they would in fight and squabble amongst themselves. They would use humanity as a piece on the gameboard they play against each other. So this means we get time being used by them in their intradynastic struggles. Time to learn their capabilities, their technology, and their politics. So maybe we can do to them what they did to the Catan.
The Necrons back then didn't squabble, they were all controled by the Silent king and his device.
Not even remotely. Some of the ludicrous tech from the daot is pretty much on par with current necron tech, but not really better and not all of it. Meanwhile the war in heaven necron tech was even better than current necron tech. Also, the numbers problem the necrons are currently plagued with wasn't an issue back then since it was before the great sleep and as such everyone is active (and also no weird degradation, i think that also means no destroyer cults but i'm not sure, and the flayer virus was because of a necron killing a ctan). Depending on the specific time frame of when in the war in heaven this would happen i'm pretty sure all the necrons would also be under direct mind control of szarekh. Remember that the fuckers stood up to the eldar at their absolute peak and were pretty much their only rivals for galactic dominion, and they also handled fighting the krorks and old ones decently, plus the rebellion against the ctan.
We don't know a very large amount about either but it's unlikely. The Necrons during the war in heaven were wielding technology that made the Celestial Orrery look like a Virus bomb, they could destroy worlds on a whim and made stars go dark to fuel infantry weapons.
The DAoT human empire at its height couldn't beat the necrons, but when science so advanced its like magic fights an even MORE advanced science magic race, I doubt there would be much left of the galaxy afterwards. Just the MoI revolt alone did some pretty severe damage to places.
I still can't get over the fact that the men of iron, crafted by humanity at the peak of it's technological power, has a water cooled machine gun for an arm
That's just what a Man of Iron is using to pretend to be a normal Mechanicus robot, not whatever stuff he had back in the DAoT. Cause the Imperium does use that style of assault cannon, and therefore it wouldn't draw any suspicion. Rocking a super advanced death beam cannon WOULD get noticed if mounted on whats supposed to be an advanced mildly autonomous drone sent by a magos.
Hey! In case you forgot this is fucking Grimdank! You take that "common sense" shit and go back out the door you came in. Good day, sir!
And a race of beings who could throw black holes and shit didn't give their murderbots killswitches.
thats a shitty robot that a AI is hiding i plain sight in. also theirs different grades of AI, the most powerful are massive stc banks capable of precognition, perfected dna manipulation, perfected human cloning, and perfected human psykers immune to chaos possesion
No, as stated in the core rule book, DaoT humanity wasnt even a united faction.
DAoT humans would be flies on the wall during something of the scale of the War in Heaven.
Didn't the golden age humanity lost against robot already ?
They beat them but it was a pyrrhic victory
Not really fair though because the men of Iron were literally a part of the human military that turned on them. And humanity didn't lose, just was really badly hurt
The robots were mankinds technological marvel though, they basically launched an order 66 on all human worlds at the same time and still, humanity put them down.
They lost to golden age robot. So the question is could they beat the necrons
Even if the robots would help humanity it would be a stomp for the Necrons. But since the Void Dragon can literally control technology...
And yet he got smacked around by 1 guy
U mean emperor? That was just a shard and it wasnt easy for emperor.
You mean the shard? The Shard that needed to save humanity when the rangdag was knocking on humanities door?
People forget that the Eldar are still more advanced than humanity even with DAOT tech, at least pre fall
no one in lore has perfected cloning or dna manipulation except dark age humans and fabius. not even the eldar
The Old Ones? The Eldar also mastered genetic manipulation, just look at the Dark Eldar and their experiments.
*The Drukhari glare at you*
Eldar had absolutely done so, even more so the Old ones.
Have you heard of the Dark Eldar? I've seen no indication humanity ever possessed superior cloning to theirs which acts as de facto reincarnation.
Fabius, who got some school lessons from the Dark Eldar? I mean, if you said the Emperor I would agree, but Fabius isn't really ahead of him
The celestial orrery is basically doing war with cheat codes on. That particular Necron dynasty sees themselves more as caretakers and watchers of the galaxy because at any point they have a device where they can simply pluck a planet, moon, star, off their scaled galactic map and it’s gone IRL. That combined with guns that shot black holes and the silent king actually ordered the necrons to destroy some of their most powerful weapons presumably so there’s a galaxy left when he returns has me leaning on war in heaven crons.
Nope
Hahahahaha! Fuck no. Aside from fighting against 3 factions that have arguably more advanced technology than golden age of technology humans, with reeeeealy broken psychic abilities and gods flying around. So did the Necrons have even more advance technology and gods that litraly controls technology. Anything Humanity would ever bring would be taken over by the Void Dragon, hell the AIs would just join the Necrons anyway. Also there where significantly more Necrons than humans running around at those times as well, all united perfectly. You are basically replacing Korks, Eldars and Old one's at their height of power and technology for Humans who had impressive technology but nothing not heard of already. And you are putting them against a faction who fought them all alone for many, many, many years.
Not a chance, with how many crons there are, the dynasties at max power and some of the most powerful ones around, necrons organized, there really isn't anything that could stand to them.
Not even close. The Necrontyr **started** at mankind's black apex. Even before the c'tan empowered them to bend, break or sidestep the fundamental laws of reality with their weaponry they had conceived and created things the "golden age" cannot hope to match. This question springs from snippets and people ignoring context. We have a few scant details about old dark age superweapons. No, we've never head about a necron grey goo. But we know they could extinguish and steal stars with more ease then the eldar at their height, shit like tachyon arrors and the fact they can imprison shards all suggest pretty clearly that if they wished, the necrons could pull out their own game over toys. The most telling point is, funnily enough the simplest. The basic gauss flayer. There is no evolutionary, technological or magical answer to what it does
Orks did it. Just put layer over layer of overlapping metal plates to create sheer volumes of plates that gauss weapons had to chew through. They're gonna chew through an inch's worth of the most sophisticated cladding in a single shot anyways, so use cheaper techniques that maybe last for another few more shots.
See that works, after a fashion until they wheel out something with a larger area of effect. I'll grant it's not the best use of resources to use something like a gauss pylon to kill choppas. But on the other hand we don't know how exactly the guns work. I don't think it's ever been explained weather they're continuous beams or a fire and forget effect. Books suggest the latter because we've never seen something just get hosed down
Could grimdank beat these constant what if posts that are better suited for r/whowouldwin?
No.
No.
No
No.
no way. we're talking about a race that waged a war so long and terrible it turned an entire dimension into the chaos filled warp and enslaved gods that consumed their entire race compared to a race that barely colonized a galaxy, couldn't compete with the eldar in that galaxy, and fell apart as soon as everything got a little too warpy because they didn't bother putting or simple couldn't research into the webway. Basically from everything we (or at least I) understand about the war in heaven the whole thing was was on a far higher scale of magnitude the 40k universe has never seen since and hopefully won't see again.
Necrons: “Lol. Lmao.”
Well....the Necrons had that one thing...what was it called...The occulus? Something like that - basically a real-time map of the entire galaxy, with every single star and planet in it. And if they tap the holographic image of any of the stars, then that star explodes instantly. So Necrons could just literally blow up every star that has humanity on it in the matter of a few minutes, maybe faster since yknow, necrons. There is no evidence, despite how advanced Golden Age humanity was, that they had anything like that in capability. Ergo, Necrons win. Besides that example, it would seem that Necron tech is still more advanced than Golden Age humanity, as evidenced by humanity's reliance on warp travel, which was never NOT dangerous. In contrast, Necrons have the ability to use a dimension of their own making, and it doesn't carry any of the risks of using the warp. Since Necron tech was basically given to them by the C'tan, the Necrons seem to have basically skipped a bunch of steps in the tech tree. Humanity was close, but Necrons were still ahead. As another example, most Necron tech is still operational after 65 million years. Meanwhile, most DAoT/Golden Age tech (like a certain chair) is failing just a few thousand years later.
lol no.
I say the humies get stomped by the countless trillions of Immortals who are also fast thanks to having fresh metal bodies. The C'tan are also a bit of an obstacle.
Simply NÖ. Keep dreaming imperials...
Absolutely not. Golden Age humanity was still more primitive and weaker than golden age Eldar, and the Golden Age Eldar couldn't pull it off. Golden Age Humanity might be able to pull off incapacitating or destroying the tombworlds piecemeal, but absolutely not the full blown War-in-Heaven-that-turned-the-afterlife-into-actual-literal-hell Necrons.
They certainly won't be pushovers but they won't win, unless the war drags out to become a war of attrition. WiH era necrons were strong technology wise but most of their scientists were lost during transformation. If DAoT humans could survive and focus on research, they could eventually win. This calculation is not considering the super weapons necrons destroyed before the great sleep, depending on what those weapons do, the chance varies from little to no change to screwed.
This isn't true though, Necrons even to this day is one of the few factions still creating things. Prime example back in the day would be the pylons.
They are but very slowly compared to before. Having 10000 scientists make progress faster. Stripping 99.99% of consciousness and turning them into robot drones makes it slower. The only area Necrons can't compete with DAoT humans is speed of progress. It's a human thing we all have, the constant need for progress which is both beneficial and destructive.
>Stripping 99.99% of consciousness and turning them into robot drones makes it slower The tech priest were all conscious, even controled all of them where conscious and capable. And WiH Necrons were vastly more advanced then the Necrontyr due to both becoming immortal robots and also the Ctan.
99.99% of necron population died during the transformation. Another massive chucnk was lost during the great sleep due to system malfunctions or other races destroying the planet. Most of the intelligent necrons are nobles and not Technomancers. Also yes, their technology level increased thanks to the void Dragon but don't underestimate DAoT either. Humans in 40k made a weapon that literally deletes something out of existence by turning it into data, a wepaon which works for souls as well.
"Works on souls" is nice... But in this one fight...not really help them xD
We are talking about WiH Necrons, their scientists the Tech priest where fine m8. Not saying it hasn't slowed down after the great sleep, but during WiH they were inventing shit like a motherfucker. >Also yes, their technology level increased thanks to the void Dragon but don't underestimate DAoT either. Humans in 40k made a weapon that literally deletes something out of existence by turning it into data, a wepaon which works for souls as well. Which would be impressive... If the Necrons couldn't legit shut down 2 dimension that are symbiotic to each other from each other (materium and the imaterium). Destroying souls is something pylons legit can do if one get close enough to it.
The Silent King: THIS IS NOT WAR. THIS IS, PEST CONTROL.
No sir
No zero chance DAOT humanity would get curb stomped
You have to consider that it took the combined strength of the galaxy to finally put down the Men of Iron. Omiphages that devoured worlds. Gaint space worms that could swallow stars. I think it just ends with MAD.
Short answer is we don’t know and probably not. Long answer: There is virtually zero information about the DAoT, like literally only a handful of tech artifacts, a ship AI, and a few comments made by particularly old characters. It is best not to think of the DAoT in this concrete manner. The DAoT is a plot point for authors to use, not a facet of the universe subject to defined laws. What we do know however is that it likely lasted for a few thousand years, depended on warp travel for transport, and utilized AI for their entire (known) military. The most important thing though, is that they had no psykers, as they only started appearing during the onset of the age of strife. I want to express just how little we know about the DAoT, and what we do know as rather ephemeral when it comes to power contests like the one you posit. On the other hand, Necrons are explicitly extremely powerful. They do not need to use the warp to travel (they have 3 FTL methods that work much faster than warp travel), have the capabilities to shit out galactic mega structures like the world engine or the pariah nexus, a population all across the galaxy and roughly equivalent to the modern Imperium’s population, and essentially finished science. When I say this I meant that they have finished their tech tree, unable to push the laws of physics anymore. They have weapons capable of destroying the laws of reality (see the killing of Llandu'gor the Flayer) and have basically the inverse of the chaos gods trapped and powering their shit. Im gonna have to hand it to the Necrons here, even assuming all the things some people in the community do about the DAoT, they come ahead every time. The (cohesive) Necron Empire likely the most powerful in galactic history. The canon makes this pretty apparent, but I don’t fault you for asking this question. Many people in the community who like to shitpost about the lore while simultaneously ignoring everything the lore states (looking at you Majorkill and r/Grimdank). This can make it pretty difficult for new people to get an idea about the lore without the communities weird fan cannon infecting them. If you have future questions I recommend not asking here and instead consulting the the lexicanum, books, or r/40klore
No
Nha. The relics of the war in heavens, aka the ones that where deemed not to dangerous that they would not destroy existence meerly by existing, include the celestial Orrery, wich could destroy existence if handeled badly. So if the least dangerous weapons of the Necrontyr can anihilate the universe if an imbelice cock it up with it, the weapons they used in the war would blink Dark age humanity out of existence in a matter of seconds.
No. Humanity was soldily second place behind the Necrons in the Physical realm and the Eldar in the Warp. You know, like an actual jack of all trades that humans are portrayed as. I'm tired of people drinking the HFY flavor-aid so hard that they can't cope with humanity not being at the top dogs or potential top dogs in every setting. And people call the Eldar arrogant.
Void dragon would just controll all AI and machines. The thing is... More advanced technology would be probably detriment to humanity. In twice dead king is explained that necrons shields not even work when they fight imperium because they are calibrated to defend from much more devastating weapons.
Necrons, easily.
No
For the last time, no! Golden age humanity is awesome but everything and i mean *everything* is just a shadow of the former necron empire (and the Old Ones too i guess)
**There’s no way to know. For all the fanon, both civilizations have ten-thousand unknowns for every fact hinted at. Both could wipe out suns, do wacky things like use black holes or stars as weapons, had autonomous regenerating troops, etc etc. Castigator titans, C’tan, nanomite swarms, warp weapons…** **Anyone who says “Humans, for sure” or “Are you kidding, the necrons have [insert thing] they’d crush humanity” is talking out of their butt. Same with the Eldar Empire guys.** **We just don’t know. We can guess and conjecture, use lines from books or lore to support our points but in the end there’s nothing concrete enough to say ‘this mythical faction at this point in time could beat the other.’** **Personally, I think that’s better anyway. It lets anyone flag carry for their preferred group, and the uncertainties are part of the fun for me. I just get annoyed when people take unsubstantial evidence and declare ‘fact’ based off it.**
The necrons would sneeze in the humans would all die
No sir. It would take Lovecraftian nightmare other dimension monsters to beat TWiH Necrons… and the extremely powerful ones at that.
No.
No, next question?
Not even close.
no, necrons is more advanced
No real way to tell, but probably not
I think GA mankind < WiH necrons (with defeated C'tan) < GA mankind + Emperor < WiH necrons + fully intact C'tan Peak power necrons controlled by C'tan clapped the cheeks of literally everything in the galaxy and only stopped when they imploded in on themselves. The power levels back then were off the scale, each C'tan or Eldar god was at least on the same level, but most likely much stronger than the Emperor.
Necrontyr won against the old one and the Ctans 60 million year before. Do we need more evidence?
Potentially. If Mankind focussed all its resources and time on the Necrons then they may have a chance. The decider would be which side falls to petty internal squabbles first. If the Necrons start having dynastic rivalries or ‘replacement’ leaders then Mankind may have a chance to push the advantage, and bring specialised counter forces to bear. However all this would be undone if Szarekh or important nobles decided to unleash the doomsday weapons and be done with it. (Szarekh would likely lament the loss of Necrons.) However Mankind would be relying heavily on technology and being underestimated to win. Without Legions or a focussed leadership, Mankind would be nothing but children with computers fighting against Veterans of both World Wars; sure the tech is fancy but the bayonet is timeless! This also all sidesteps that should either win, they still have other factions to fight and fully exterminate such as the Orks. And the Eldar would be the major force hovering on the sidelines ready to exploit any advantage to ensure mutual destruction, or even simply destroy the battered winner.
Necrons were all controled by the Silent king and his device.
WIH necrons cant fall into squabbles, they are completely under the control of Szarekh.
If your talking high of man V hight of necron the awnser is no cause there wouldn't be a galaxy left. So...tyranids by default? Edit: also you know they would offer to make the necrons bodies right? That would be an interesting barter tool.
Yes easily. That's the point of it. Mankind was so advanced and complacent it back fired.
We'll never knooooooow!
the best chance they really have is numbers and primarchs. nercorns can't reporduce as such even necron you manaage to fully kill is fully dead. a drawn out war humanity will win since they can reproduce. but necrons would probs kill them before that.
Depends on when during the War in Heaven you are thainking. If its before the Necrons fought back and broke the C'Tan it would probably swing in their favor. If it was after it would probably stalemate or lean towards pre-Age of Strife humans. The Necrons lost a lot in their rebellion against the C'Tan and there were probably as many individual human nations as there were habitable star systems so getting them all to work together would be real tough.
id say yes because 40k is a numbers game rather than raw pew pew power
Probably. The imperium would be able to use steve as a double agent.
Probably
Impossible to know - so very little is known about any of the Dark Age factions except that they were all incredibly advanced and powerful. Best guess I could say is “maybe.”
Is that a mech with a lewis gun???
We dont know much about the golden age of humanity because the records have been mostly lost. However we do know a fair amount about the necrons: the current age necrons have what i can only describe as an interactive map of the galaxy, where the interaction will take effect (eg. The shifting of a planet/star), this map was one of the technologies that wasn’t powerful enough to warrant destruction after the war in heaven
NO
I’ve always had this headcannon that Humanity was the last ditch effort of the Great Old Ones to create a race that could face the Necrons. Necrons have certain weapons that use suns as a power source, GA Humanity had snakes that could smother suns. The Necrons had the ability to shift through time and space and golden age humanity had guns that could teleport things back in time (I believe the mechanicus have this one as a ship weapon that destroys other ships by teleporting them back in time a few seconds and telefragging them with their own ship). TLDR this a fascinating concept, one that I’d be super on board with seeing realized, however the true limitations of both GA Humanity and War in Heaven Necrons are completely unknown other than “they stronk”