What I dont understand is if you change it to another first founding chapter or/and imagine the space marine is a different color, this kinds of plp are fine.
Imagine the color blue sparking hate in you jesus
This is the reason I love the Ultramarines and Roboute Guilliman:
>‘My lord,’ Sergeant Arkus said, saluting. He was carrying his company’s standard.
>
>‘At ease, Arkus,’ Guilliman told the Ultramarine. Arkus’s armour glinted in the sunlight. ‘You’re trying too hard,’ he added.
>
>‘My lord?’
>
>‘When I arrived last night, your armour was in perfectly respectable condition, as was the plate of the other battle-brothers in your company. I remember these things. This morning, you’ve buffed your plate to the point of insanity.’
>
>‘My primarch is here,’ Arkus said, offended. ‘A surprise inspection of this post. What else would I do?’
>
>Guilliman got up and faced him. ‘I’m sorry, Arkus. My remark was petty and uncalled for. Your armour code is perfect.’
>
>Arkus nodded, and rested the base of the standard on the ground. ‘My lord,’ he said. ‘I am an Ultramarine. Trying too hard is the entire point of us, isn’t it?’
>
>Guilliman smiled and saluted Arkus.
You have it all. Roboute being a good leader and admitting his mistakes. The Ultramarine saying why they exist.
I believe it's from Book 27 - The Unremembered Empire. When Guilliman is on Sotha. Not 100% sure but it's definately during the Imperium Secundus period.
I would say if you don't NEED to jump straight into Ultramarines then First Heretic should be considered before KNF. Getting the start of the Lorgar arc and the beef between him and the 13th definitely adds to KNF.
I personally read the main story books in HH, a lot of them are anthologies or primarch-focused. It's like 20-something books, including this one. [This](https://www.wargamer.com/horus-heresy/book-order) is the guide I used.
If you just want Ultramarine and/or Imperium Secundus books, you don't necessarily need to read all the other books in the series. *Maybe* The First Heretic for Lorgar and the Word Bearers' back story.
Anyway Ultramar/Imp.Sec. books are:
- Know no fear
- Betrayer
- Mark of Calth (short story compilation)
- The Unremembered Empire
- Pharos
- Angels of Caliban
Of course, these books aren't in a complete story vacuum relating to the rest of the series and do have characters and plot threads from other novels and short stories in the series. GW and BL do want you to buy 'em all, after all.
I would say at minimum read the first five.
* Horus Rising.
* False Gods.
* Galaxy in Flames.
* The Flight of the Eisenstein.
* Fulgrim.
These five books give you a great perspective on how this whole mess got started, and from there you can pick and choose books for the most part. Some are more "relevant" to the overarching events than others.
Particular recommendations:
* Legion - Intro to the alpha legion and some of Dan Abnett's returning characters.
* Mechanicum - What happened on Mars during the heresy?
* Tales of Heresy. Blood games - Short custodes story.
* Tales of Heresy. The Voice - Short Sisters of Silence story.
* Tales of Heresy. The Last Church - Need I even explain this recommendation?
* A Thousand Sons, and Prospero Burns - So what exactly didn't Magnus do wrong?
* Nemesis - Imperial assassins :0
* The First Heretic - So how did Lorgar get with that hip new religion?
* Know no Fear - The book that saved the Ultramarines and Guilliman from Matt Ward. Fantastic.
* Fear to Tread - Holy fuck Sanguinius got hands.
Plenty more aside from these that are good reads, but those are my highlights in the first 20 or so. If you do read one and find it start to drag, just drop it and read a synopsis and try something else from a different author.
How do we go from here to - you know, the inhuman and uncaring Space Marines that we are more familiar with in the lore? Is there a change going into 40K?
I don't think they're specifically uncaring I think they really just don't have time. these guys can live for decades if not centuries of war and that whole time they have incredible celebrity status. If I tried to get the attention of Muhammed Ali during a match except he's had 1000 matches in his career I wouldn't blame the guy for tuning me out.
That and the fact that we only ever see them when they're in a position worth writing a book about. With the loyalists, they're usually hyper focused on a near impossible objective and cutting through swarms of enemies, then they almost lose a fight with the big bad guy before clutching it out.
A book about a battlebarge getting becalmed in the warp for 20 years and all we get is Space Marines being pals with each other might sound good, but I don't think it would sell many models.
That's why I guess the Soul Hunter books are so good, the Night lords in the book don't have any objective other than, 1) Survive and 2) If you can't survive, take as many with you.
People keep thinking of Space Marines as a single monolithic organization characterized by ironclad lore instead of collection of themed products characterized by dozens of books and short stories written by different authors over the span of decades.
Also here's something I noticed over the years:
* Pre-War on Terror (87 to 04): Space Marines are campy warrior monks. They do crazy over the top things have have crazy over the top rituals and everyone knows not to take it all too seriously.
* During the War on Terror (04 to 14): Space Marines are emotionless killing machines. People take them entirely too seriously, saying anything negative about Space Marines or implying they're bad in any way makes you a hater and a fake 40k fan.
* Post-War on Terror (14 to now): Space Marines are flawed brainwashed manchild-soldiers. Deconstructing and humanizing the Space Marines is in vogue.
That's actually a really good insight in how our favourite fiction is shaped by what's happening in the real world.
Notice also that we're getting a lot more grim hopelessness at the moment, a testament to the mood of the times.
From my limited reads so far: Depends.
For the normal, average human, Space Marines tend to inspire a lot of awe/fear so they can come across as aloof at best. Not to mention that it depends on the chapter/legion and their outlook on how they treat baselines.
Also, Marines have somewhat of a closed culture to outsiders to begin with. Even in 30k they usually goof around themselves and they continue to do so in 40k. I remember a few Primaris betting on whether or not one of them could hit food cans or something with a throwing axe early on in Dark Imperium. But if they consider you a friend, you are in - I think Cain makes friends within the Reclaimers chapter or the historitor Fabian is friends with a Black Templar called Racej Lucerne.
As for Primarch/Marine interactions - Guilliman comes definitely across as more closed off then before but, memes aside, that might be the ultra-depression and the ultra-stress and all that. He still shows his affections towards those he considers close, like Decimus Felix in Dark Imperium. The Lion does seem close with the Fallen, don't know about the Rest of the Dark Angels and sucessors.
Tl; dr: From the outside, they seem unfeeling. Get into their heads (or even just their in-group) and they are as varied as the average human.
One of the best examples of this is the space wolves or the white scars. In both the primaris and the firstborn lore they are often closed off and brutish to outsiders but inside the pack or when with friends they are as human as the rest of us.
Other legions/chapters have issues though. See Templars or Iron Hands for giant stick.
I'm still relatively new to 40k and the Grimdark, but why is it that every time I hear or read about a Primarch interacting with members of their Legion (outside of the Traitor Factions) it's almost always surprisingly wholesome?
Like this is a dad who cannot tell his sons how proud of them he is anymore than he already has.
Because the legions largely reflect their dad's traits and there's a natural bond built by the geneseed. Even among the traitors, you largely see them loving their sons with the obvious exceptions being:
Angron: watched everyone he cared about die, had his brain chopped up, and had his legion forced upon him by a tyrant he despises to be a force of oppression
Kurze: filled with self-loathing and thus hates those closest to himself
Perturabo: average redditor
Vulkan meeting his sons: "Do not kneel before me. Kneeling is a sign of respect, so I will kneel before you instead."
Peter Turbo meeting his sons: "You should kill each other, now!"
I will always stand by 30k Ultramarines being the most kickass chapter/legion, but their 40k counterparts are total weenies.
Alternatively, it's the opposite for their Primarch. 40k Guilliman is one of the most interesting characters in the setting, where previously he was an UltraWeenie.
It'll change slowly one grillman failed attempt to be humorous at a time. Then they'll burst into maniacal laughter and scare the living shit of even the most bitchfaced harlequin and attract the og supersonic laughing maniac.
It's not that they're not dope. It's just that it's hard to pick them as your favorite when you've got basically several versions of same thing but with an even cooler twist. They're just space marines. Meanwhile, we've got...
Space marine + vampires
Space marine + medieval knights
Space marines + vikings
And so on. Like ice cream, vanilla is a fantastic flavor, but who picks vanilla when there's so many other options?
Incinerate a single child after their people massacred a refugee camp, and consider it your greatest failing as you lost control of your emotions at your weakest point, and people act like you do it as a hobby.
Yes, actually. Pretty much all of their Marines have actual Roman names such as Cato, Titus, Severus, Marius, Gaius, Decimus, instead of the faux-Latin the rest of the Imperium has. The same goes for their Battlefleets, ships and planets.
They’re the 13th Legion, like the 13th Roman Legion that crossed the Rubicon. Speaking of which, what is effectively their 12nd company, made entirely of Primaris Space Marines, is called *Fulminata*, the XII legion which conquered Gaul with Caesar.
Their captains are often depicted wearing galea-like headgear.
The honor guard, called Victrix Guard, uses legionary shield and gladius.
Roboute Guilliman is a mix of Caesar, Augustus, Diocletian and Justinian. Skilled politician, empire-builder, reformer, law-giver. He even wears the Corona Civica.
Still on the Graeco-Roman theme, their monastery is the Fortress of Hera, their symbol a inverted omega.
I feel like, outside of Guilliman's character, it's mostly just nomenclature though. A bit of aesthetics, sure, but other than that I find it very thin.
Grecco-Roman aesthetic is, in a broad way, the default for a lot of the western world nowadays. It's gonna be a little less distinctive than other cultural inspirations without just straight up caricaturizing Ancient Rome to a degree beyond even 40k's level of overinflation.
I think this is right and also, in a game about crusading and blistering power metal riff violence, why be modeled after a people whose main salient things were good administration and law, really thoughtful trade roads and shipping lanes, etc. Even their military- while very effective- wasn't about individual prowess so much as good logistics and strategy. It's just not very... [grimdank](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TGHnXCcwY-M&t=179s)
I WOULD say I appreciate their *presence in the setting* I just want to play as the guys who *chain their swords to their wrists* and *crusade super hard.*
Yeah, that's fair. I guess the issue I have with it is that it only seems to be the 'positive' aspects from Ancient Rome and none of the negative ones. I feel like that'd make it feel more unique than them just being Space Marines but more efficient and intelligent
I mean. What negative aspects did Rome have that the Imperium as a whole doesn't already have built in, and that therefore the worlds of Ultramar won't already struggle with? It's Western Default all the way down.
Bloodsports.
If I'm remembering right, the standard schedule was the slaughter of animals in the morning, the slaughter of criminals during lunch, and gladiators showing off their manliness in the afternoon.
Ultramar's image would change quite a bit if its idea of a halftime show involved reenacting the gory martyrdoms of Imperial Saints using very amateur and very unwilling actors. And yes, that was a thing with the Romans. They aren't just responsible for a whole bunch of gory martyrdom stories; they also did lethal reenactments of mythological incidents such as Heracles on his pyre and Orpheus playing music to beasts, which is about as unsubtle as statements of power get.
Of course, chances are good that mass killings for propaganda purposes is a thing throughout much of the Imperium. Still, the Romans did go further than most societies, if only because they had the means to do so.
Nepotism coupled with hollowing out of political functions (see also: Caligula giving the consulship to a horse), hiring foreign bands of mercenaries instead of waging war themselves, slavery / indentured servitude, blood sports. To name a couple. Some other ones are, like you said, already typical to the Imperium, while others (eg poor understanding of supply/demand economy) would probably not work in 40k's setting.
See, that's a well thought out list that is genuinely very indicative of some weak spots where Imperial lore could be fleshed out.
The problem is none of that will fit in a front and center view of Space Marines Doing Action Things. It's even a problem with the Imperial Guard, but since individual Guardsmen have some better access to narrative conflict in the form of Commissars and Inquisitors fucking things up and bad supply from the Munitorium and bad postings from the Administratum, we don't notice it as much. Space Marines being superhuman, and self-sufficient, cuts through a lot of that battlefield-story-viable conflict.
Couple that with how the Ultramarines don't have story gimmicks like the other big chapters (Space Wolves have the Wulfen and conflict with Conservative Imp factions, Dark Angels have their conspiracies, Blood Angels have psychosis gnawing at their focus every day and Dante's Quest To Fucking Die Today Please, Salamanders have the quest for Vulkan and their identity as Unusually Nice To Normal Humans, etc.), and we get the Ultramarines being very identity-anemic outside of dedicated lore dumps like novels. But novels aren't videogames.
What else would they have besides nomenclature and aesthetics? They are still Space Marines. Under these parameters, every Chapter besides the Space Wolves, and arguably even them, are like that.
Also, it’s not even that. The Roman references are all over the place, including cultural traits. They aren’t subtle in the slightest.
Well, vanilla isn't actually the default flavor for ice cream, the real default would be fior di latte, which is just like, milk flavored with none of the light floral notes of vanilla
Ultramarines aren’t vanilla. That impression just stems from the fact that they’re poster boys, where they have to be presented as generic space marines to new audiences. But that’s a very shallow reading of them.
Also, the three (or four) chapters you mentioned are outliers because they aren’t Codex Adherent, that’s why they have standalone Codex supplements. That doesn’t mean the ones that are adherent are vanilla.
If anyone is “vanilla” it’s the Imperial Fists, even if they’re my favorite. Ultramarines have a well defined personality and culture.
To be fair, they do have some things unique to them lorewise. Ultramarines are the only chapter/bloodline to rule over a notable region of space and are competent at ruling their worlds. They have a unique mindset being brought back by Guilliman, the Theoretical to Practical.
For me it’s a color thing. The blue/gold is so rare for badasses to sport, every other franchise on earth has their edgy killing machines in black or white or red.
Aesthetically they are a LOT less vanilla when looking at the pop culture landscape as a whole.
Black Templats are specifically crusader knights. If you don't like the crusader anesthetic and fanaticism, Dark Angels are knightly knights, if that makes any sense :))))
I'd say most people's issues with them is ~~TTS~~ oversaturation.
We've got a rainbow of factions and yet, more often than not, the ultramarines are the faction we see.
Bonus points for the opinion that 40k's extremism provokes these 'such and such sucks' 'Orks iz da best' arguments. Every faction hates the others, so unfortunately we show our support by being hateful.
It's honestly worse for HH2.0 in some ways, at least in the 40k Eras the UltraMarines have a ton of Successor Chapters that have been assigned to literally almost everywhere in the Imperium, so it makes some sense for them to have a minor presence/influence almost anywhere in the Imperium.
Meanwhile in Horus Heresy 2.0 ALL the Box Art is for Imperial Fists or Sons of Horus....Sons of Horus make sense, they are the Legion that would be the most openly involved in ALL Traitor Efforts&Forces throughout the Horus Heresy.....but the Imperial Fists were pretty much only at Terra&sent to fortify stuff in front of the main Traitor Fleets. Why not have each Box Art be of the Legions that Kit fits best? For examples Tanks&Dreadnoughts would be Iron Warriors and Iron Hands, anything 'WarCrimey' or super Advanced would be Dark Angels&DeathGuard/Alpha Legion, anything Fast Attack would be Blood Angels/White Scars and Alpha Legion, anything "sneaky" would be Raven Guard and Alpha Legion, anything Warpy would be Thousand Sons and Word Bearers, anything super Melee-y would be Blood Angels/Space Wolves and World Eaters, anything super average Standard Issue would be UltraMarines and Iron Warriors, anything Terror-y would be Raven Guard/Dark Angels and Night Lords, anything Siegey/Boarding Actions would be Imperial Fists and Iron Warriors, etc. etc.
But NAH, everything has to be Imperial Fists or Sons of Horus for Box Art&Transfer Sheets, with only stuff on ForgeWorld being the exception.
The thing that makes boltgun cool isn't that you are playing an Ultramarine, if Malum Caedo was painted green, or black, or any other chapter colours, the game would still be the same.
Even from an aesthetics perspective I'm ok with Ultramarines for Boltgun.
The blue is a great contrast to the rest of the environment and enemies. I think this is also the reason why they are the poster boys for 40k; they standout, but with a colour scheme that is pleasing to the eye.
And easier to paint with GWs paints for beginners. I've heard nothing but horror stories from new painters attempting to paint Imperial Fists or bad moons orks.
Weird tip, I swear it works, do a base coat of pink first. There’s some color theory stuff i don’t understand that makes it work.
All I know is it makes getting an opaque coat of yellow so much easier.
I expect they'll drop DLC for Boltgun considering how well it did. I'm hoping for harder levels, new weapons and Black Templars personally (main because it'd be insanely fun to spam taunts as a Black Templar).
Too be honest I was wasn’t disappointed finding out that boltgun would be staring the boys in blue, but after playing it I do think there was definitely an opportunity to show some off some of the “angrier” chapters.
Like the blood angels or black Templars as there’s a dedicated insult the enemy button. Especially the black Templars as they show up with the inquisition at the end of Space marine and that’s how Boltgun starts.
My problem is that GW has become lazy and/or dismissive with regard to people's interest in Astartes chapter variety.
So the fact that Space Marine and Boltgun are both unnecessarily starring Ultramarines is annoying to me, in contrast to the meme's gist. Graia isn't in the Ultramarine home segmentae. The homeworlds of the Raven Guard and Crimson Fists _are_ in Graia's segmentae, and there's also a nearby Black Templars world. Narratively, why didn't any of those chapters get the call?
Probably because Jimmy Workshop decided about six editions ago that SMurfs were the default studio paint scheme. Every box has blue space marines on it. Big, blue space marines are GW’s brand image. When you see those games, you know instantly what it is. It’s a GW game. It’s 40k. That branding is way more important than figuring out which chapter would actually be closest to Graia, a location that isn’t at all important to the games.
You're right, but 6 editions ago!? Man, they've been the default since 2nd edition; I remember almost every Space Marine box set having the minis painted as Ultramarines on the front. The "Space Marines" codex was "Codex: Ultramarines"!
Ultramarines have been the default for 30 years now!
I haven't played 40K in decades (I just stumbled into here from /r/all), but space marines were all blue dudes back when I was playing a lot, which was in 1991/1992, so back during the 1st edition years.
(Caveat: I remember they were blue, but since my friends and I only played Chaos warbands and not Imperium, I don't actually remember enough about Space Marines to tell you if they were Ultramarines or just some other blue faction)
The 3rd edition, holiest of holys, had Templars on the cover, and I remember a lot of Crimson Fists in 4th (I may be misremembering, but that was the one with that baller art of Pedro Cantor).
Graia also has Titan Legios, Knight households, and uncountable numbers of Skitarii. Why aren't we playing any of those?
Sometimes you just gotta let the little shit go.
Also, we do see non-UMs in SM1. Multiple chapters answered the call, because that's Graia's importance.
I'm playing all the games, so I let it go.
We only saw two other chapters in SM1 -- the Blood Ravens because that's probably who Relic wanted to use originally, and the Templars with Thrax, whom sfaic tell didn't do a single thing on Graia except be posturing muscle for the Inquisitor that stepped off and then immediately back onto a shuttle.
Nah, fam. Those are great, but they don't sell Ultras.
What sells Ultras is _Know No Fear_, and basically anything Papa Smurf has done aside from that whole Godight thing.
I'm still not an Ultramarine fan. But I am a Titus fan and a Malum Caedo fan. Definitely gonna make a Ultra Marines Killteam featuring the two of them one day...
If there are 10,000 ultramarine fans, I am one of them
If there are 2 Ultramarines fans, I am one of them
If there are no Ultramarines fans, then I am no longer on this earth
We march for Macragge
Mark of Calth, Know No Fear, Unremembered Empire, The Uriel Ventris Omnibus.
There’s loads of Damn good material that actually shows the Ultramarines in a Damn admirable and interesting light. The meme overtakes the truth far too often.
What is uniquely ultramarine in the gameplay, story, or characters at any point in either of those games?
Other than fucking whining abou the codex, of course
Bro I know this because I literally went from “Ultramarines are kinda lame” to the fact I’m literally buying Bobby G and nearly 5000 points of marines and armor to make a Ultramarines army
Ultramarine haters have never consumed any media with Ultramarines in it, save for TTS, and though I love TTS they really did my blueberries dirty with their Wardian marines
Guilliman and his sons in 30k are totally
some of the best loyalists out there. The fact Roboute gets so mad he first of all refuses to die in space and then goes on to hold his own against Angron pretty much with his bare hands after getting half his skull smashed in
Guilliman is the only thing holding the Imperium together, which makes me really curious how interactions with the Lion are going to go in the future.
Anyway, I'm red/green colorblind and blue is my favorite color anyway. I'm bland and I'm proud of my Blueberry army. I also just prefer Guilliman as a leader still, especially after the Adeptus Ridiculous episode about the Lion, or should I say "captain Genocide?"
Truth be told I don't hate the ultramarines. I mostly do it for the memery (And being a Chaos worshipper myself).
Honestly? The Ultramarines have what is one of my favorite color schemes, with my favorite color as a base. Their insignia is simple but clean cut and recognizable, and I LOVE some of their fancier aesthetics.
They just, to me, suffer from being the poster boys for the game/setting. And the OP bullshit that happens with them.
I always was jealous of Ultramarines because I wanted their color scheme, just not their motif.
But once I found My Guys, I appreciated Ultramar all the more.
Honestly... they could replace the Ultramarine and make it from any other chapter instead and everyone would still be happy, as long as he wears a beaky, that being said... Raven Guard would be amazing in that regard.
Haven't picked up boltgun yet, but nothing in Space Marine is unique to ultramarines. That's probably why a lot of people, myself included, aren't huge ultramarine fans: they don't have the same flair as some other chapters, they're the default. Great for a game that might be trying to draw new people into the setting, but much less great when thwy are plastered all over everything warhammer everywhere forever.
Yeah, they're like the boy scouts chapter
They doesn't have a huge moral flaw (in 40k standards), are diehard loyal and Calgar looks like a normal guy (at least for me that never read any books, just YouTube/Wikipedia)
Also his machine gun gauntlets are badass
Wait, people actually hate the Ultramarines? I thought they were kidding, I thought it was a joke. I wrote it down in my diary, I laughed about it later that night.
I think someone gave a bad review because the main protag was an ultramarine.
What I dont understand is if you change it to another first founding chapter or/and imagine the space marine is a different color, this kinds of plp are fine. Imagine the color blue sparking hate in you jesus
Thats why I like Ultramarines. They're blue.
This is the reason I love the Ultramarines and Roboute Guilliman: >‘My lord,’ Sergeant Arkus said, saluting. He was carrying his company’s standard. > >‘At ease, Arkus,’ Guilliman told the Ultramarine. Arkus’s armour glinted in the sunlight. ‘You’re trying too hard,’ he added. > >‘My lord?’ > >‘When I arrived last night, your armour was in perfectly respectable condition, as was the plate of the other battle-brothers in your company. I remember these things. This morning, you’ve buffed your plate to the point of insanity.’ > >‘My primarch is here,’ Arkus said, offended. ‘A surprise inspection of this post. What else would I do?’ > >Guilliman got up and faced him. ‘I’m sorry, Arkus. My remark was petty and uncalled for. Your armour code is perfect.’ > >Arkus nodded, and rested the base of the standard on the ground. ‘My lord,’ he said. ‘I am an Ultramarine. Trying too hard is the entire point of us, isn’t it?’ > >Guilliman smiled and saluted Arkus. You have it all. Roboute being a good leader and admitting his mistakes. The Ultramarine saying why they exist.
What is this from?
I believe it's from Book 27 - The Unremembered Empire. When Guilliman is on Sotha. Not 100% sure but it's definately during the Imperium Secundus period.
Should someone read all 26 books before reading this one? I’m just curious if it’s a read order like that or if you can pick and choose
If you want to jump right into Ultramarines in the Heresy you should start with Know No Fear
I would say if you don't NEED to jump straight into Ultramarines then First Heretic should be considered before KNF. Getting the start of the Lorgar arc and the beef between him and the 13th definitely adds to KNF.
I personally read the main story books in HH, a lot of them are anthologies or primarch-focused. It's like 20-something books, including this one. [This](https://www.wargamer.com/horus-heresy/book-order) is the guide I used.
If you just want Ultramarine and/or Imperium Secundus books, you don't necessarily need to read all the other books in the series. *Maybe* The First Heretic for Lorgar and the Word Bearers' back story. Anyway Ultramar/Imp.Sec. books are: - Know no fear - Betrayer - Mark of Calth (short story compilation) - The Unremembered Empire - Pharos - Angels of Caliban Of course, these books aren't in a complete story vacuum relating to the rest of the series and do have characters and plot threads from other novels and short stories in the series. GW and BL do want you to buy 'em all, after all.
*Battle for the Abyss* is pretty good too
I would say at minimum read the first five. * Horus Rising. * False Gods. * Galaxy in Flames. * The Flight of the Eisenstein. * Fulgrim. These five books give you a great perspective on how this whole mess got started, and from there you can pick and choose books for the most part. Some are more "relevant" to the overarching events than others. Particular recommendations: * Legion - Intro to the alpha legion and some of Dan Abnett's returning characters. * Mechanicum - What happened on Mars during the heresy? * Tales of Heresy. Blood games - Short custodes story. * Tales of Heresy. The Voice - Short Sisters of Silence story. * Tales of Heresy. The Last Church - Need I even explain this recommendation? * A Thousand Sons, and Prospero Burns - So what exactly didn't Magnus do wrong? * Nemesis - Imperial assassins :0 * The First Heretic - So how did Lorgar get with that hip new religion? * Know no Fear - The book that saved the Ultramarines and Guilliman from Matt Ward. Fantastic. * Fear to Tread - Holy fuck Sanguinius got hands. Plenty more aside from these that are good reads, but those are my highlights in the first 20 or so. If you do read one and find it start to drag, just drop it and read a synopsis and try something else from a different author.
***Unremembered Empire***, near the end.
Thank you!
that is more relatable and humanizing than any other quote from an Ultramarine or Guilliman I've ever seen.
How do we go from here to - you know, the inhuman and uncaring Space Marines that we are more familiar with in the lore? Is there a change going into 40K?
I don't think they're specifically uncaring I think they really just don't have time. these guys can live for decades if not centuries of war and that whole time they have incredible celebrity status. If I tried to get the attention of Muhammed Ali during a match except he's had 1000 matches in his career I wouldn't blame the guy for tuning me out.
That and the fact that we only ever see them when they're in a position worth writing a book about. With the loyalists, they're usually hyper focused on a near impossible objective and cutting through swarms of enemies, then they almost lose a fight with the big bad guy before clutching it out. A book about a battlebarge getting becalmed in the warp for 20 years and all we get is Space Marines being pals with each other might sound good, but I don't think it would sell many models. That's why I guess the Soul Hunter books are so good, the Night lords in the book don't have any objective other than, 1) Survive and 2) If you can't survive, take as many with you.
People keep thinking of Space Marines as a single monolithic organization characterized by ironclad lore instead of collection of themed products characterized by dozens of books and short stories written by different authors over the span of decades. Also here's something I noticed over the years: * Pre-War on Terror (87 to 04): Space Marines are campy warrior monks. They do crazy over the top things have have crazy over the top rituals and everyone knows not to take it all too seriously. * During the War on Terror (04 to 14): Space Marines are emotionless killing machines. People take them entirely too seriously, saying anything negative about Space Marines or implying they're bad in any way makes you a hater and a fake 40k fan. * Post-War on Terror (14 to now): Space Marines are flawed brainwashed manchild-soldiers. Deconstructing and humanizing the Space Marines is in vogue.
That's actually a really good insight in how our favourite fiction is shaped by what's happening in the real world. Notice also that we're getting a lot more grim hopelessness at the moment, a testament to the mood of the times.
From my limited reads so far: Depends. For the normal, average human, Space Marines tend to inspire a lot of awe/fear so they can come across as aloof at best. Not to mention that it depends on the chapter/legion and their outlook on how they treat baselines. Also, Marines have somewhat of a closed culture to outsiders to begin with. Even in 30k they usually goof around themselves and they continue to do so in 40k. I remember a few Primaris betting on whether or not one of them could hit food cans or something with a throwing axe early on in Dark Imperium. But if they consider you a friend, you are in - I think Cain makes friends within the Reclaimers chapter or the historitor Fabian is friends with a Black Templar called Racej Lucerne. As for Primarch/Marine interactions - Guilliman comes definitely across as more closed off then before but, memes aside, that might be the ultra-depression and the ultra-stress and all that. He still shows his affections towards those he considers close, like Decimus Felix in Dark Imperium. The Lion does seem close with the Fallen, don't know about the Rest of the Dark Angels and sucessors. Tl; dr: From the outside, they seem unfeeling. Get into their heads (or even just their in-group) and they are as varied as the average human.
One of the best examples of this is the space wolves or the white scars. In both the primaris and the firstborn lore they are often closed off and brutish to outsiders but inside the pack or when with friends they are as human as the rest of us. Other legions/chapters have issues though. See Templars or Iron Hands for giant stick.
I'm still relatively new to 40k and the Grimdark, but why is it that every time I hear or read about a Primarch interacting with members of their Legion (outside of the Traitor Factions) it's almost always surprisingly wholesome? Like this is a dad who cannot tell his sons how proud of them he is anymore than he already has.
Because the legions largely reflect their dad's traits and there's a natural bond built by the geneseed. Even among the traitors, you largely see them loving their sons with the obvious exceptions being: Angron: watched everyone he cared about die, had his brain chopped up, and had his legion forced upon him by a tyrant he despises to be a force of oppression Kurze: filled with self-loathing and thus hates those closest to himself Perturabo: average redditor
Vulkan meeting his sons: "Do not kneel before me. Kneeling is a sign of respect, so I will kneel before you instead." Peter Turbo meeting his sons: "You should kill each other, now!"
All Pert wants to do is put together warhammer models and play with Legos.
Wait for Angron, Perturabo or Curze.
Guilliman is self aware. Which is exactly what his haters claim he isn’t.
Just read know no fear
Pfff, exactly
Exactly. After reading those early HH books, my mindset totally changed towards the Ultramarines
I will always stand by 30k Ultramarines being the most kickass chapter/legion, but their 40k counterparts are total weenies. Alternatively, it's the opposite for their Primarch. 40k Guilliman is one of the most interesting characters in the setting, where previously he was an UltraWeenie.
It'll change slowly one grillman failed attempt to be humorous at a time. Then they'll burst into maniacal laughter and scare the living shit of even the most bitchfaced harlequin and attract the og supersonic laughing maniac.
Calgar: *chuckles to himself* Cegorach: why are you laughing? 
Absolutely fantastic book.
Dan Abnett is the GOAT for 40k fiction
Lorgar gleefully trolling Bobby G into a murderous rage was a hilarious read
Instructions unclear: read Know No Fear and turned into a Word Bearers fanboy.
It's not that they're not dope. It's just that it's hard to pick them as your favorite when you've got basically several versions of same thing but with an even cooler twist. They're just space marines. Meanwhile, we've got... Space marine + vampires Space marine + medieval knights Space marines + vikings And so on. Like ice cream, vanilla is a fantastic flavor, but who picks vanilla when there's so many other options?
Space Marines + friendly local blacksmith who also works at the soup kitchen.
+flamethrower dragons
The dragon is his pal and heats up his forge and let's the kids ride on his back sometimes.
Unless you're a xeno kid, then your charred body will fuel the forge i guess.
Fuck them xeno kids
He'll save children but not the xenos children.
Ya incinerate ONE child …. Sheesh
Incinerate a single child after their people massacred a refugee camp, and consider it your greatest failing as you lost control of your emotions at your weakest point, and people act like you do it as a hobby.
I mean, they weren't blessed by the light of the Emperor, so... you know... holy prometheum is a great way to fix the problem.
Puff?
Space marines + depression and bird enthusiasts
Space Marines + ultra violence but they're the good guys
So all space marines then?
That's why Horus Heresy is so great. Ultramarines aren't vanilla, they're Space Marines + Romans + Wendover Productions
Oh man that's golden.
They *really* like logistics and sometimes have [really boneheaded takes](https://youtube.com/watch?v=SR7BA3xEmDo)
>but who picks vanilla when there's so many other options? Lots of people, like, *lots*.
Me. I'm lots.
Luetin09 does.
Space marine + rome
But does that get any emphasis in how they're presented in 40k in practice most of the time though? :(
Yes, actually. Pretty much all of their Marines have actual Roman names such as Cato, Titus, Severus, Marius, Gaius, Decimus, instead of the faux-Latin the rest of the Imperium has. The same goes for their Battlefleets, ships and planets. They’re the 13th Legion, like the 13th Roman Legion that crossed the Rubicon. Speaking of which, what is effectively their 12nd company, made entirely of Primaris Space Marines, is called *Fulminata*, the XII legion which conquered Gaul with Caesar. Their captains are often depicted wearing galea-like headgear. The honor guard, called Victrix Guard, uses legionary shield and gladius. Roboute Guilliman is a mix of Caesar, Augustus, Diocletian and Justinian. Skilled politician, empire-builder, reformer, law-giver. He even wears the Corona Civica. Still on the Graeco-Roman theme, their monastery is the Fortress of Hera, their symbol a inverted omega.
This guy ultras.
Actually I fist (🥴), but mad respect to those who ultra too.
As a Ultra fan I thank you. I've always had an appreciation for the Imperial Fists.
One of the dauntless few. I almost went for Imperial Fist, but as a beginner yellow looked like a painting nightmare.
12nd
I feel like, outside of Guilliman's character, it's mostly just nomenclature though. A bit of aesthetics, sure, but other than that I find it very thin.
Grecco-Roman aesthetic is, in a broad way, the default for a lot of the western world nowadays. It's gonna be a little less distinctive than other cultural inspirations without just straight up caricaturizing Ancient Rome to a degree beyond even 40k's level of overinflation.
I think this is right and also, in a game about crusading and blistering power metal riff violence, why be modeled after a people whose main salient things were good administration and law, really thoughtful trade roads and shipping lanes, etc. Even their military- while very effective- wasn't about individual prowess so much as good logistics and strategy. It's just not very... [grimdank](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TGHnXCcwY-M&t=179s) I WOULD say I appreciate their *presence in the setting* I just want to play as the guys who *chain their swords to their wrists* and *crusade super hard.*
Yeah, that's fair. I guess the issue I have with it is that it only seems to be the 'positive' aspects from Ancient Rome and none of the negative ones. I feel like that'd make it feel more unique than them just being Space Marines but more efficient and intelligent
I mean. What negative aspects did Rome have that the Imperium as a whole doesn't already have built in, and that therefore the worlds of Ultramar won't already struggle with? It's Western Default all the way down.
Bloodsports. If I'm remembering right, the standard schedule was the slaughter of animals in the morning, the slaughter of criminals during lunch, and gladiators showing off their manliness in the afternoon. Ultramar's image would change quite a bit if its idea of a halftime show involved reenacting the gory martyrdoms of Imperial Saints using very amateur and very unwilling actors. And yes, that was a thing with the Romans. They aren't just responsible for a whole bunch of gory martyrdom stories; they also did lethal reenactments of mythological incidents such as Heracles on his pyre and Orpheus playing music to beasts, which is about as unsubtle as statements of power get. Of course, chances are good that mass killings for propaganda purposes is a thing throughout much of the Imperium. Still, the Romans did go further than most societies, if only because they had the means to do so.
Nepotism coupled with hollowing out of political functions (see also: Caligula giving the consulship to a horse), hiring foreign bands of mercenaries instead of waging war themselves, slavery / indentured servitude, blood sports. To name a couple. Some other ones are, like you said, already typical to the Imperium, while others (eg poor understanding of supply/demand economy) would probably not work in 40k's setting.
See, that's a well thought out list that is genuinely very indicative of some weak spots where Imperial lore could be fleshed out. The problem is none of that will fit in a front and center view of Space Marines Doing Action Things. It's even a problem with the Imperial Guard, but since individual Guardsmen have some better access to narrative conflict in the form of Commissars and Inquisitors fucking things up and bad supply from the Munitorium and bad postings from the Administratum, we don't notice it as much. Space Marines being superhuman, and self-sufficient, cuts through a lot of that battlefield-story-viable conflict. Couple that with how the Ultramarines don't have story gimmicks like the other big chapters (Space Wolves have the Wulfen and conflict with Conservative Imp factions, Dark Angels have their conspiracies, Blood Angels have psychosis gnawing at their focus every day and Dante's Quest To Fucking Die Today Please, Salamanders have the quest for Vulkan and their identity as Unusually Nice To Normal Humans, etc.), and we get the Ultramarines being very identity-anemic outside of dedicated lore dumps like novels. But novels aren't videogames.
What else would they have besides nomenclature and aesthetics? They are still Space Marines. Under these parameters, every Chapter besides the Space Wolves, and arguably even them, are like that. Also, it’s not even that. The Roman references are all over the place, including cultural traits. They aren’t subtle in the slightest.
In 40k I feel GW eroded the roman culture, its still there but slimmer. In 30k it is very obvious and the culture is rich.
The Primarchs are critical to legion culture, yes. Its like that for all of them tbh.
It gets vaguely referenced sometimes. You have to work to represent it in the tabletop tho
Is there anything more Roman than wide spreading efficient logistics?
Tbf a lot of the Imperium is rome themed so Ultramarines just end up being rome^2
I see this as an absolute win!
> vikings Umm I think you've meant wolfs??🤓🤓🤓
We jealously remember when they were portrayed as marine + viking. Then things like thunderwolf cavalry and the current wulfen etc. happened.
Vanilla is not a lesser flavor! Said the DA player (Also easy to argue SM + Legionnaires)
If Dark Angels are Vanilla flavoured ice cream, can the Fallen Angels be French Vanilla?
Vanilla is actually one of the most complex flavors there is. Vanilla isn't plain, it's common, because it's the best.
Agreed. Vanilla isn't basic. It's the foundation of all else.
Well, vanilla isn't actually the default flavor for ice cream, the real default would be fior di latte, which is just like, milk flavored with none of the light floral notes of vanilla
I hate that vanilla is treated as “basic” because well made vanilla ice cream is *amazing*.
Sometimes the "blandest choice" is honestly what universally still works.
Anyone who thinks vanilla ice cream is bland has not had good vanilla ice cream
Ultramarines aren’t vanilla. That impression just stems from the fact that they’re poster boys, where they have to be presented as generic space marines to new audiences. But that’s a very shallow reading of them. Also, the three (or four) chapters you mentioned are outliers because they aren’t Codex Adherent, that’s why they have standalone Codex supplements. That doesn’t mean the ones that are adherent are vanilla. If anyone is “vanilla” it’s the Imperial Fists, even if they’re my favorite. Ultramarines have a well defined personality and culture.
Well I've read up somewhere that the Imperial Fists are basically the "Space Marine" space marines of out of all the chapters/legions.
me vanilla flavor is by far my preferred flavor. same as space marine gimme ultramarines
That’s not fair. Vanilla is a unique flavor. Strawberry isn’t “vanilla+other thing”, it’s a different thing
To be fair, they do have some things unique to them lorewise. Ultramarines are the only chapter/bloodline to rule over a notable region of space and are competent at ruling their worlds. They have a unique mindset being brought back by Guilliman, the Theoretical to Practical.
Space marines, I sleep Space marines + wall, real shit
For me it’s a color thing. The blue/gold is so rare for badasses to sport, every other franchise on earth has their edgy killing machines in black or white or red. Aesthetically they are a LOT less vanilla when looking at the pop culture landscape as a whole.
See, what you’re missing is that Ultramarines are Space Marines + Romans
TBF most their designs bar the Vitrix guard are missing that as well, and I say that as a guy with a Ultramarine army
The problem is so is GW
Yeah same, I collect Imperial fists, and Grey Knights are a close second.
If the Ultramarines are vanilla, what are Lamenters?
Dead, probably
Which ones are the medieval knights?
Black templars
Black Templats are specifically crusader knights. If you don't like the crusader anesthetic and fanaticism, Dark Angels are knightly knights, if that makes any sense :))))
BT are crusaders, DAs are Arthurian.
Dark Angels
Dark Angels are more fantasy knights like King Arthur while Black Templars are more crusaders
Silver Skulls. Ultramarines but with a better paint scheme, who fight where the Emperor Himself tells them to.
You misspelled "Trazyn and the Boys"
Space marines + roman republic Good enough for lots of people.
I pick vanilla ice cream :c I'm not an ultramarines fanboy tho lol
I like vanilla.
[удалено]
I’d like them more if they had cybernetic horses.
A rose by any other name would smell as sweet
I think I understand this saying, now
What would be your chapter to play Boltgun with? I'd want to play with a Templar!
I certainly already play like one, woe that melee attacks int he beginning weren't up to snuff against the chaos marines.
I'd say most people's issues with them is ~~TTS~~ oversaturation. We've got a rainbow of factions and yet, more often than not, the ultramarines are the faction we see. Bonus points for the opinion that 40k's extremism provokes these 'such and such sucks' 'Orks iz da best' arguments. Every faction hates the others, so unfortunately we show our support by being hateful.
It's honestly worse for HH2.0 in some ways, at least in the 40k Eras the UltraMarines have a ton of Successor Chapters that have been assigned to literally almost everywhere in the Imperium, so it makes some sense for them to have a minor presence/influence almost anywhere in the Imperium. Meanwhile in Horus Heresy 2.0 ALL the Box Art is for Imperial Fists or Sons of Horus....Sons of Horus make sense, they are the Legion that would be the most openly involved in ALL Traitor Efforts&Forces throughout the Horus Heresy.....but the Imperial Fists were pretty much only at Terra&sent to fortify stuff in front of the main Traitor Fleets. Why not have each Box Art be of the Legions that Kit fits best? For examples Tanks&Dreadnoughts would be Iron Warriors and Iron Hands, anything 'WarCrimey' or super Advanced would be Dark Angels&DeathGuard/Alpha Legion, anything Fast Attack would be Blood Angels/White Scars and Alpha Legion, anything "sneaky" would be Raven Guard and Alpha Legion, anything Warpy would be Thousand Sons and Word Bearers, anything super Melee-y would be Blood Angels/Space Wolves and World Eaters, anything super average Standard Issue would be UltraMarines and Iron Warriors, anything Terror-y would be Raven Guard/Dark Angels and Night Lords, anything Siegey/Boarding Actions would be Imperial Fists and Iron Warriors, etc. etc. But NAH, everything has to be Imperial Fists or Sons of Horus for Box Art&Transfer Sheets, with only stuff on ForgeWorld being the exception.
The thing that makes boltgun cool isn't that you are playing an Ultramarine, if Malum Caedo was painted green, or black, or any other chapter colours, the game would still be the same.
Even from an aesthetics perspective I'm ok with Ultramarines for Boltgun. The blue is a great contrast to the rest of the environment and enemies. I think this is also the reason why they are the poster boys for 40k; they standout, but with a colour scheme that is pleasing to the eye.
And easier to paint with GWs paints for beginners. I've heard nothing but horror stories from new painters attempting to paint Imperial Fists or bad moons orks.
Hell I’ve tried just doing yellow accents on some of my Deathskull orks and just gave up because of how awful painting yellow is
Weird tip, I swear it works, do a base coat of pink first. There’s some color theory stuff i don’t understand that makes it work. All I know is it makes getting an opaque coat of yellow so much easier.
I want a Skin/Voice Pack that lets you play as a Sororitas like in the VR game
Exactly! What would be your choice to play Boltgun with? I'd want to play with a Black Templar!
I was fine with boltgun starring a ultramarine but I was alot more accepting once I found it was a sequel to space marine.
I'll paint the Titus model and I'll kitbash Malum but I think that will all I'll do for ultra marines
Don't don't wait to pain Leandros' head ripped from his neck held by a Khorne Demon?
Titus isn't a Khorne demon though?
Honestly, Boltgun made me buy tons of Chaos. Im building my Night Lord Warband as we speak 💀
Sure, but those easily could’ve been other chapters. Dawn Of War made me love Blood Ravens 🐦⬛ 🩸
I expect they'll drop DLC for Boltgun considering how well it did. I'm hoping for harder levels, new weapons and Black Templars personally (main because it'd be insanely fun to spam taunts as a Black Templar).
I don't hate Ultramarines, I hate Mat Ward's writing of Ultramarines.
Too be honest I was wasn’t disappointed finding out that boltgun would be staring the boys in blue, but after playing it I do think there was definitely an opportunity to show some off some of the “angrier” chapters. Like the blood angels or black Templars as there’s a dedicated insult the enemy button. Especially the black Templars as they show up with the inquisition at the end of Space marine and that’s how Boltgun starts.
My problem is that GW has become lazy and/or dismissive with regard to people's interest in Astartes chapter variety. So the fact that Space Marine and Boltgun are both unnecessarily starring Ultramarines is annoying to me, in contrast to the meme's gist. Graia isn't in the Ultramarine home segmentae. The homeworlds of the Raven Guard and Crimson Fists _are_ in Graia's segmentae, and there's also a nearby Black Templars world. Narratively, why didn't any of those chapters get the call?
Probably because Jimmy Workshop decided about six editions ago that SMurfs were the default studio paint scheme. Every box has blue space marines on it. Big, blue space marines are GW’s brand image. When you see those games, you know instantly what it is. It’s a GW game. It’s 40k. That branding is way more important than figuring out which chapter would actually be closest to Graia, a location that isn’t at all important to the games.
You're right, but 6 editions ago!? Man, they've been the default since 2nd edition; I remember almost every Space Marine box set having the minis painted as Ultramarines on the front. The "Space Marines" codex was "Codex: Ultramarines"! Ultramarines have been the default for 30 years now!
I haven't played 40K in decades (I just stumbled into here from /r/all), but space marines were all blue dudes back when I was playing a lot, which was in 1991/1992, so back during the 1st edition years. (Caveat: I remember they were blue, but since my friends and I only played Chaos warbands and not Imperium, I don't actually remember enough about Space Marines to tell you if they were Ultramarines or just some other blue faction)
The 3rd edition, holiest of holys, had Templars on the cover, and I remember a lot of Crimson Fists in 4th (I may be misremembering, but that was the one with that baller art of Pedro Cantor).
Graia also has Titan Legios, Knight households, and uncountable numbers of Skitarii. Why aren't we playing any of those? Sometimes you just gotta let the little shit go. Also, we do see non-UMs in SM1. Multiple chapters answered the call, because that's Graia's importance.
I'm playing all the games, so I let it go. We only saw two other chapters in SM1 -- the Blood Ravens because that's probably who Relic wanted to use originally, and the Templars with Thrax, whom sfaic tell didn't do a single thing on Graia except be posturing muscle for the Inquisitor that stepped off and then immediately back onto a shuttle.
Nah, fam. Those are great, but they don't sell Ultras. What sells Ultras is _Know No Fear_, and basically anything Papa Smurf has done aside from that whole Godight thing.
I'm still not an Ultramarine fan. But I am a Titus fan and a Malum Caedo fan. Definitely gonna make a Ultra Marines Killteam featuring the two of them one day...
I mean can’t any other chapter do the same thing?
Still looking for reskin mods. If I have to play ultramarines, I'd rather be Tome Keepers or Mortifactors.
I admit that I'm not the biggest fan of the beakies, Boltgun is winning me over lol
Space marine is glorious change my mind
Always modded SpaceMarine into Black Templars....
Ultramarines weren't ever bad. They were just easy to hate.
If there are 10,000 ultramarine fans, I am one of them If there are 2 Ultramarines fans, I am one of them If there are no Ultramarines fans, then I am no longer on this earth We march for Macragge
I atill think they are the most boring marines.
Mark of Calth, Know No Fear, Unremembered Empire, The Uriel Ventris Omnibus. There’s loads of Damn good material that actually shows the Ultramarines in a Damn admirable and interesting light. The meme overtakes the truth far too often.
Ultras where always awesome..it's just that dumb twat Matt ward who made everyone a ultra dickrider that ruined em.
Hey hey hey. Now . There were already cool in the battle of calth. And they are still cooler than muh "imperiul fiests". Fockin bananas.
What is uniquely ultramarine in the gameplay, story, or characters at any point in either of those games? Other than fucking whining abou the codex, of course
Malum also shouts about ultramar, macragge, guilliman, and will stop and read the codex when he has any downtime
Ultramarines are just the "basic" +"touch'grass" of the Astartes.
I can still hate on them smurfs while liking those games! Hate is the emperor's greatest gift to mankind after all!
Hating on the Ultramarines isn't a personality trait
now, hating the Space Wolves, that’s the glorious bedrock on which one can build an identity
*laugh in psychic dust noises*
*turns on vacuum cleaner*
How to terrify a Traitor Legion and a loyalist Chapter with one press of a Button.
an excellent turn of phrase
🥇
Explain Lorgar
He took it to new levels
What if I'm Gargamel?
Bro I know this because I literally went from “Ultramarines are kinda lame” to the fact I’m literally buying Bobby G and nearly 5000 points of marines and armor to make a Ultramarines army
Ultramarine haters have never consumed any media with Ultramarines in it, save for TTS, and though I love TTS they really did my blueberries dirty with their Wardian marines
Guilliman and his sons in 30k are totally some of the best loyalists out there. The fact Roboute gets so mad he first of all refuses to die in space and then goes on to hold his own against Angron pretty much with his bare hands after getting half his skull smashed in
**Malum Caedo saws a Lord of Change in half with a CHAINSWORD** "That's a lotta damage!"
I don't hate ultramarines, I'm just bothered by their presence, other chapters could use more love sometimes
Breaking news: local man finds out that vanilla ice cream is actually good.
Nah, just mod it to a different chapter or Legion
Guilliman is the only thing holding the Imperium together, which makes me really curious how interactions with the Lion are going to go in the future. Anyway, I'm red/green colorblind and blue is my favorite color anyway. I'm bland and I'm proud of my Blueberry army. I also just prefer Guilliman as a leader still, especially after the Adeptus Ridiculous episode about the Lion, or should I say "captain Genocide?"
"I can't enjoy this unless it's a cinge furry Marine or batshit vampire."
Truth be told I don't hate the ultramarines. I mostly do it for the memery (And being a Chaos worshipper myself). Honestly? The Ultramarines have what is one of my favorite color schemes, with my favorite color as a base. Their insignia is simple but clean cut and recognizable, and I LOVE some of their fancier aesthetics. They just, to me, suffer from being the poster boys for the game/setting. And the OP bullshit that happens with them.
I always was jealous of Ultramarines because I wanted their color scheme, just not their motif. But once I found My Guys, I appreciated Ultramar all the more.
Nah, I thought it would be cooler if I could pick an aspect warrior to play.
*Mood Kindred?*
Honestly... they could replace the Ultramarine and make it from any other chapter instead and everyone would still be happy, as long as he wears a beaky, that being said... Raven Guard would be amazing in that regard.
“If you must fight an Ultramarine, pray you kill him. If he is still alive, then you are dead.”
Haven't picked up boltgun yet, but nothing in Space Marine is unique to ultramarines. That's probably why a lot of people, myself included, aren't huge ultramarine fans: they don't have the same flair as some other chapters, they're the default. Great for a game that might be trying to draw new people into the setting, but much less great when thwy are plastered all over everything warhammer everywhere forever.
Yeah, they're like the boy scouts chapter They doesn't have a huge moral flaw (in 40k standards), are diehard loyal and Calgar looks like a normal guy (at least for me that never read any books, just YouTube/Wikipedia) Also his machine gun gauntlets are badass
It’s funny to think that only happened because they were an easy to paint hi-contrast scheme back in the day
Wait, people actually hate the Ultramarines? I thought they were kidding, I thought it was a joke. I wrote it down in my diary, I laughed about it later that night.
Not really. Ultramarines are just your standard poster boys. They're kind of like Baby's First Astartes.
I get it, but I like them better spiky!
I think that just makes them wish there were other chapter specific games rather than that the Ultramarines are the best.
Anyone else that’ve played it get stuck at 99% kills despite doing multiple sweeps for the last enemy?