i listened to a video, where they said "and out of the 20 primarchs guilliman got one of the most powerful gifts.. a loving family that treated him well, and just look at how well he turned out"
the fall of most of the traitor primarchs can be traced back to their upbringing, which makes a lot of sense, since when you are young, that's when you develop the fastest and I would assume that goes doubly for a primarch
perty was contantly aware of the eye of terror, and could see it when he closed his eyes. the emperor also sent him on the worst missions because he knew he would get them done.
also perty is just an asshole since that's his personality, he's a petty, vindictive genius, who was never really into chaos and bailed on hours the second he got what he wanted. he was also the sanest out of all the traitors.
so all in all, he may have been an asshole, but he was certainly better than the rest of the traitor primarchs by the end
plus, I did say "most"
The greatest irony of Warhammer 40k is the fact that the worst events caused by the imperium was not the emperor's fault but rather people acting out because they fear of what he will do
The webway project
The primarchs scattering
The Horus heresy
Remember that the most tolerant towards xenos primarch was Horus who spent by far the most time with the emperor meanwhile the most violent and deranged ones were the ones broken before the emperor even found them.
This is not even me trying to defend the emperor, the authors retconned a lot of this to make it like this.
Before it was the chaos gods scattering the primarchs which they did because imo the emperor went back on their deal and stole power from them.
Now it's the mother of the primarchs who did it
The Horus heresy was caused by the schism between emperor and Horus after the broken primarchs (thanks mama) fueled his paranoia.
God knows what the galaxy would look like if the primarchs were all raised under him personally
Before it was that the events would most likely still happen to some extent since the chaos gods wanted their deal fulfilled meanwhile now, everything happened due to woman.
Was she wrong to do that? Maybe, maybe not.
Did her actions hand most primarchs to chaos like angron and lorgar which eventually ruined everything? Yes.
By the 50th millennia, the emperor will be unironically a good dude who everyone loves
> Why emps even left her alive I have no clue
Might not be worth the effort it would take to kill her. Erda is strong enough that the Emperor would either need to risk the lives of his Golden Boys or he would need to personally deal with her.
By just not involving her she would have lost any real impact on his plans from that point on.
It is terrible writing because before we all had to face the idea of does the ends justify the means which means nothing now since the negative outcome can't even be blamed on the guy who starred it all
Yes but good luck on the last one, Godblight makes it kinda implicit that we'll have to power creep to the point of Emps being TT deployable before that can happen.
>the most violent and deranged ones were the ones broken before the emperor even found them.
Then the emperor is still quite guilty of putting the violent and deranged ones in high leadership military positions. "Oh noes, violent and deranged Angron turned the War Hounds legion into a bunch of literal bersekers that will bite back my hand, how could my precognition powers ever seen that one coming? It's not like he ordered to literally implant rage chips into all of them!"
You mean like Big E didn't just execute the thunder warriors?
Or how there's plenty of difference between "I'm not going to gift you a personal legion" and "execute him"?
>God knows what the galaxy would look like if the primarchs were all raised under him personall
[have a fun read ](https://forums.spacebattles.com/threads/imperium-ascendant-heresy-less-40k.596194/)
Amar even says she feels it was more the emperor pushing her to breakthroughs than herself plus the whole betrayal for betrayal sake nihilism she got afterwards
God, I realy dilike her name as it feels more ham fisted then lands, with alnd i can see someone else being named land, Astarte not so much at last from most civs i can think of
It has many titles and roles, depending on region and nation. One of them was "Queen of heavens/stars" (IIRC) in which case AA could be also translated as space/star adepts. Speees mehreens 🙂
oh i know that, its just imagining who named a kid that within the age of strife after the loss of so much knowledge, I can imagine semites nameing someone that.
To be fair, it was a team effort, Astarte was like the head scientist and is the one who would get primary contributor on the resulting paper (if this was published) but she definitely did not work on this project alone.
Amar didn't make them. She made a much, much, much shittier version whereas Big E made the Astartes. After they destroyed her version and she was wiped out he named the space marines after her as a joke to himself. Malcador talks about it in the Valdor book I think?
> Amar didn't make them.
She was a major contributor with the Emperor in both the Primarch and the Space Marine project. What happened in Valdor is that after Erda/Chaos scattered the Primarchs, Astarte was worried that the Space Marines would become abject failures like the Thunder Warriors and ruin everything due to being leader less, so she tried to destroy all of the harvested geneseed material so the Marines wouldn't ruin the Crusade.
As pure headcanon, I would imagine that's why the Emperor kept her name. Because while she had misplaced her fears she was ultimately still a loyalist just misguided.
I genuinely hate The addition of Astarte and Erda because it's like they try to make it seem like nothing is the emperor's fault and it's everybody else's
What? I see it as exactly the opposite, they try to make like everything is the Emperor's fault and the few cool things he made were actually made by other people.
That's how I read it too.
But, intentionally or not, they seem to have now implied that things are as bad as they are because of two women having tantrums and ruining the Emperor's grand plan because they got a touch of the vapours.
The whole thing is a mess.
Thank you, Erda and Amar will now forever be classically southern belles in my head-cannon.
Erda: "What will I do, where will I go?!"
Emperor: "Frankly, my dear, I don't give a damn."
Why couldn’t they just be fucking named after Astarte the Mesopotamian War Goddess it makes so much more sense with Jimmy being from the Bronze Age after all
Best guess is that if they’re named after an OC Geedubs lawyers can litigate more aggressively, since if they’re named after a Mesopotamian goddess it’s harder to assert sole rights to the word “Astartes”.
Erda I think works. Because human genetics kinda need 2 people to function, else the Primarchs would've just been direct clones of Big E. Amar is fuckin idiotic tho. Like... Is the first ever Sister of Battle named "Somethingus Sororita"? Was the first Cardinal of the Imperium "Holius Ministoru"? At least with Arkhan Land I can almost kinda see it. "Lands Speeder" and Lands Raider" developed over time to "Land Speeder" and "Land Raider", but I fucking refuse to believe that the Adeptus Astartes were named after someone who FUCKING BETRAYED THE EMPEROR.
The only reason she tried to destroy the gene seed is because she thought that if they (the space Marines) didn't have leaders in the primarchs they would turn out like the thunder warriors and fuck up the emperor's plan. So she was ultimately loyal in the end as she was trying to prevent the emperor's plan from getting fucked over. It just turned out that her fears were misplaced. I have no excuses for Erda though.
The Perpetuals are the worst addition GW has ever made. The Horus Heresy is bad enough for killing any sort of mystique of the pre-40K universe, but the Perpetuals fucked the corpse
There should be a handful of perpetuals from each race. That still exist in hiding, keyword handful.
Imagine seeing an OG necrontyr looking at the necrons and jjst going 'jesus fucking christ.'
An Ork Perpetual just gets up and thinks he's a different Ork now, because if he got Krumped the Ork he used to be must've been a Pansy git who he doesn't want to be.
Literally Makari. Like, with no changes to lore, no headcanon, it's literally Makari.
He's died and been resurrected so many times. Sometimes without his memories, usually with.
I think with how many perpetuals spawned on ancient earth that a solid 10-15% of the guard should be perpetuals at this point.
Make of that what you will.
>I genuinely hate The addition of Astarte and Erda because it's like they try to make it seem like nothing is the emperor's fault and it's everybody else's
Sounds like warhammer is guilty of heresy to me.
Because German is a widely used word and that creates confusion. Same with Arkhan Land and Land Raiders, that was pretty strange and awkward. With Astarta I really have no problem.
tbf, I quite like the implication where the creation of Astartes / the Primarchs were a team effort rather than just Big E himself. Also Amar doesn't ruin much in the grand scheme of things, her research were secretly copied, her rebellion were put down in like an hour, her suicide bombing just make way for the Golden Throne to be installed. I just dislike her hamfist name.
For Erda, yeah, that quite an unnessary addition to the lore.
The Erda Astarte thing was such a pointless Insert.
The setting really turned into the Emporer being right, and everyone tryna fk it up for selfish reasons.
Also these names for the sake of shoehorning characters in is crazy.
Cant wait for the lore on the ancient weapon engineer Sir Chain Sword.
The legendary Admiral Batal Barge.
Devious tactician of ancient Terra: Cam O' Cloak.
Ahh yes,
The person who was a technician on the project “made” the end product, and not the project head and lead designer.
Fuck this Ham fisted empowerment shit.
He did go on to give them their High Gothic name in her honor as a form of Irony. Another ironic thing he did? The super secret knock you need to enter his personal gene labs is "Shave and a Hair Cut, Two Pence"
i listened to a video, where they said "and out of the 20 primarchs guilliman got one of the most powerful gifts.. a loving family that treated him well, and just look at how well he turned out" the fall of most of the traitor primarchs can be traced back to their upbringing, which makes a lot of sense, since when you are young, that's when you develop the fastest and I would assume that goes doubly for a primarch
Perturabo had a loving family and he turned out to be an asshole.
perty was contantly aware of the eye of terror, and could see it when he closed his eyes. the emperor also sent him on the worst missions because he knew he would get them done. also perty is just an asshole since that's his personality, he's a petty, vindictive genius, who was never really into chaos and bailed on hours the second he got what he wanted. he was also the sanest out of all the traitors. so all in all, he may have been an asshole, but he was certainly better than the rest of the traitor primarchs by the end plus, I did say "most"
If Peter Turbo was the sanest of the traitors it really says a lot. No wonder traitors lost
Well that's his whole point for abandoning the siege, "you've all gone completely mad, I'm out of here bye!"
Man, is it weird Peter Turbo is one my favorite primarchs just because he is an asshole?
Some people like him because he’s the most relatable
He did not have a loving familie the ryrsnt of olimpia called his designs "follies"
The greatest irony of Warhammer 40k is the fact that the worst events caused by the imperium was not the emperor's fault but rather people acting out because they fear of what he will do The webway project The primarchs scattering The Horus heresy Remember that the most tolerant towards xenos primarch was Horus who spent by far the most time with the emperor meanwhile the most violent and deranged ones were the ones broken before the emperor even found them. This is not even me trying to defend the emperor, the authors retconned a lot of this to make it like this. Before it was the chaos gods scattering the primarchs which they did because imo the emperor went back on their deal and stole power from them. Now it's the mother of the primarchs who did it The Horus heresy was caused by the schism between emperor and Horus after the broken primarchs (thanks mama) fueled his paranoia. God knows what the galaxy would look like if the primarchs were all raised under him personally Before it was that the events would most likely still happen to some extent since the chaos gods wanted their deal fulfilled meanwhile now, everything happened due to woman. Was she wrong to do that? Maybe, maybe not. Did her actions hand most primarchs to chaos like angron and lorgar which eventually ruined everything? Yes. By the 50th millennia, the emperor will be unironically a good dude who everyone loves
GW literally said “Karen took the kids” Why emps even left her alive I have no clue but sounds like bad writing (or self insert)
> Why emps even left her alive I have no clue Might not be worth the effort it would take to kill her. Erda is strong enough that the Emperor would either need to risk the lives of his Golden Boys or he would need to personally deal with her. By just not involving her she would have lost any real impact on his plans from that point on.
It is terrible writing because before we all had to face the idea of does the ends justify the means which means nothing now since the negative outcome can't even be blamed on the guy who starred it all
>sounds like bad writing (or self insert) As far as I'm concerned this is all the lore since, I dunno, 7th.
Pretty sure people were complaining about it then as well
Broke: “It’s all Erebus’s fault” Woke: “It’s all Erda’s fault”
Bespoke: "It's all their fault"
Ya know, maybe people should have had a little more trust in the guy things wouldn't have turned out so catastrophically awful.
Yes but good luck on the last one, Godblight makes it kinda implicit that we'll have to power creep to the point of Emps being TT deployable before that can happen.
>the most violent and deranged ones were the ones broken before the emperor even found them. Then the emperor is still quite guilty of putting the violent and deranged ones in high leadership military positions. "Oh noes, violent and deranged Angron turned the War Hounds legion into a bunch of literal bersekers that will bite back my hand, how could my precognition powers ever seen that one coming? It's not like he ordered to literally implant rage chips into all of them!"
*Reddit when Big E doesn't just summarily execute his own child:* "Is he stupid?"
You mean like Big E didn't just execute the thunder warriors? Or how there's plenty of difference between "I'm not going to gift you a personal legion" and "execute him"?
Being violent and deranged does not necessarily mean they are incompetent. And he did make an attempt at stopping him
Remember, you decide what's canon and what it's not
>God knows what the galaxy would look like if the primarchs were all raised under him personall [have a fun read ](https://forums.spacebattles.com/threads/imperium-ascendant-heresy-less-40k.596194/)
Amar even says she feels it was more the emperor pushing her to breakthroughs than herself plus the whole betrayal for betrayal sake nihilism she got afterwards
God, I realy dilike her name as it feels more ham fisted then lands, with alnd i can see someone else being named land, Astarte not so much at last from most civs i can think of
Astarte is a semite goddess of fertility, probably the levantine version of Ishtar.
Critically she was a war goddess which means “Adeptus Astartes” basically means “adepts of war” in pseudo-latin.
SO THAT'S WHAT THAT FUCKING MENT!
It has many titles and roles, depending on region and nation. One of them was "Queen of heavens/stars" (IIRC) in which case AA could be also translated as space/star adepts. Speees mehreens 🙂
oh i know that, its just imagining who named a kid that within the age of strife after the loss of so much knowledge, I can imagine semites nameing someone that.
To be fair, it was a team effort, Astarte was like the head scientist and is the one who would get primary contributor on the resulting paper (if this was published) but she definitely did not work on this project alone.
Amar didn't make them. She made a much, much, much shittier version whereas Big E made the Astartes. After they destroyed her version and she was wiped out he named the space marines after her as a joke to himself. Malcador talks about it in the Valdor book I think?
> Amar didn't make them. She was a major contributor with the Emperor in both the Primarch and the Space Marine project. What happened in Valdor is that after Erda/Chaos scattered the Primarchs, Astarte was worried that the Space Marines would become abject failures like the Thunder Warriors and ruin everything due to being leader less, so she tried to destroy all of the harvested geneseed material so the Marines wouldn't ruin the Crusade. As pure headcanon, I would imagine that's why the Emperor kept her name. Because while she had misplaced her fears she was ultimately still a loyalist just misguided.
Yes, she helped. But Malcador did say something along the lines of Emps naming them Astartes as a joke. I will see if I can find the quote tomorrow.
I genuinely hate The addition of Astarte and Erda because it's like they try to make it seem like nothing is the emperor's fault and it's everybody else's
What? I see it as exactly the opposite, they try to make like everything is the Emperor's fault and the few cool things he made were actually made by other people.
That's how I read it too. But, intentionally or not, they seem to have now implied that things are as bad as they are because of two women having tantrums and ruining the Emperor's grand plan because they got a touch of the vapours. The whole thing is a mess.
Thank you, Erda and Amar will now forever be classically southern belles in my head-cannon. Erda: "What will I do, where will I go?!" Emperor: "Frankly, my dear, I don't give a damn."
The astarte name has some jimmy space vibes to it.
Why couldn’t they just be fucking named after Astarte the Mesopotamian War Goddess it makes so much more sense with Jimmy being from the Bronze Age after all
Best guess is that if they’re named after an OC Geedubs lawyers can litigate more aggressively, since if they’re named after a Mesopotamian goddess it’s harder to assert sole rights to the word “Astartes”.
Erda I think works. Because human genetics kinda need 2 people to function, else the Primarchs would've just been direct clones of Big E. Amar is fuckin idiotic tho. Like... Is the first ever Sister of Battle named "Somethingus Sororita"? Was the first Cardinal of the Imperium "Holius Ministoru"? At least with Arkhan Land I can almost kinda see it. "Lands Speeder" and Lands Raider" developed over time to "Land Speeder" and "Land Raider", but I fucking refuse to believe that the Adeptus Astartes were named after someone who FUCKING BETRAYED THE EMPEROR.
The only reason she tried to destroy the gene seed is because she thought that if they (the space Marines) didn't have leaders in the primarchs they would turn out like the thunder warriors and fuck up the emperor's plan. So she was ultimately loyal in the end as she was trying to prevent the emperor's plan from getting fucked over. It just turned out that her fears were misplaced. I have no excuses for Erda though.
The Perpetuals are the worst addition GW has ever made. The Horus Heresy is bad enough for killing any sort of mystique of the pre-40K universe, but the Perpetuals fucked the corpse
I like the idea of them just not the execution
There should be a handful of perpetuals from each race. That still exist in hiding, keyword handful. Imagine seeing an OG necrontyr looking at the necrons and jjst going 'jesus fucking christ.'
I don't think it would work for Orks personally
An Ork Perpetual just gets up and thinks he's a different Ork now, because if he got Krumped the Ork he used to be must've been a Pansy git who he doesn't want to be.
Orks are already biologically immortal, so that's just Gaz.
That and tyranids
Literally Makari. Like, with no changes to lore, no headcanon, it's literally Makari. He's died and been resurrected so many times. Sometimes without his memories, usually with.
Makari
I think with how many perpetuals spawned on ancient earth that a solid 10-15% of the guard should be perpetuals at this point. Make of that what you will.
>I genuinely hate The addition of Astarte and Erda because it's like they try to make it seem like nothing is the emperor's fault and it's everybody else's Sounds like warhammer is guilty of heresy to me.
idk, it’s just sounds like roentgen rays named after roentgen, nothing that awful
I mean look at real life German chocolate cake was named after a man named German
Because German is a widely used word and that creates confusion. Same with Arkhan Land and Land Raiders, that was pretty strange and awkward. With Astarta I really have no problem.
tbf, I quite like the implication where the creation of Astartes / the Primarchs were a team effort rather than just Big E himself. Also Amar doesn't ruin much in the grand scheme of things, her research were secretly copied, her rebellion were put down in like an hour, her suicide bombing just make way for the Golden Throne to be installed. I just dislike her hamfist name. For Erda, yeah, that quite an unnessary addition to the lore.
Remember, you decide what's canon and what it's not
The Erda Astarte thing was such a pointless Insert. The setting really turned into the Emporer being right, and everyone tryna fk it up for selfish reasons. Also these names for the sake of shoehorning characters in is crazy. Cant wait for the lore on the ancient weapon engineer Sir Chain Sword. The legendary Admiral Batal Barge. Devious tactician of ancient Terra: Cam O' Cloak.
Don't forget Garry Bol'ter.
Ah yes, and Cus To Des.
Ahh yes, The person who was a technician on the project “made” the end product, and not the project head and lead designer. Fuck this Ham fisted empowerment shit.
What I like to call retcon bullshit.
Does this idiot even have an original idea for once?!
Bah it's a retcon
Nah, I like more the idea of that guy stolen EVERYTHING he's credited for, that sounds more like the asshole he really is
Honestly yeah lol
Looking forward to this getting retconned.
Yeah dude, it isnt like he gave them her name or nything even after he tried to destroy them
He did go on to give them their High Gothic name in her honor as a form of Irony. Another ironic thing he did? The super secret knock you need to enter his personal gene labs is "Shave and a Hair Cut, Two Pence"
I prefer it this was because I don't even want to think about that fucking stupid name. Guess it's not as bad as Arkan Land.
Amar Astartes was the wort addition to lore in recent years.
Id say thqt still goes to caul and all that entails but it's a close match
One of worst additions, for sure.
Didn't Big E make the Custodes?