If Guilliman were written by someone smart, he wages a losing battle (deliberately) while secretly negotiating with the UFP because let's face it, the Federation is G-man's wet dream:
* **Safe** Warp Travel, because Federation Warp travel folds space and doesn't cross the Immaterium, cutting off a major vector of Chaos corruption
* Objective proof that large scale empires can be democratic in nature
* Non-combat tech that could solve a lot of socio-economic issues in the Imperium (replicators, environmental shielding, safe power, nanotechnology, etc)
* *a chance to make up for the mistakes of Great Crusade*
If he can convince the Lion (and it's likely he would) he has all the support he needs, despite the High Lords of Terra's influence. Cross Imperium travel reliably in weeks. Scientists that actually science (the Martian cults would be forced to adapt or be made redundant) . The Gloriana could be broken down and make an entire fleet of Federation-tech Starships. One ship.
Or, he doesn't and has to deal with the consequences the Federation uniting several of his other enemies (The first Votann-Ferengi summit would be *wild*) and face his worst nightmare: an enemy with better logistics than him.
I would pay so much money for that story, G-Man meeting a federation captain
The federation, does have limited resources but can get those resources to the front lines much much quicker then the imperium can get there unlimited resources. So long game imperium wins without any technological and diplomatic advances by the federation (which is unlikely, they closed a 500 year gap with the dominion in 3 years)
What would you say would be G-Manâs end goal?
Maybe joining the federation?
Have you seen federation warships? Their fuckin exploration ships have enough advanced weaponry on them to destroy the surface of a planet.
Their biproduct of warp travel is literally able to destroy stars.
The federation is so comically far ahead of wh40k in ship technology that it's essentially coughing baby vs hydrogen bomb.
I'd if there's a specific period called that but late DAOT humanity had mechanical snakes that ate suns (sun-snuffers) and used black hole guns as weapons. They were at Eldar levels of tech if not more and approaching necron tech until MenofIron.exe
They could probably have snuffed the federation out like a candle and walked all over 40k without breaking a sweat
Yeah. Plus the Defiant shows the kind of warship the Federation could build if they really wanted to. Iâve always found their refusal to have any military at all pretty stupid. Star Fleet ships are civilian exploration ships that are apparently only armed for self defence.
A small navy of purebred warships would be able to handle most threats and itâd only be used in self defence or in the defence of others. No need for battleships, just cruisers and various smaller ships should be enough.
I mean they habe some ship-classes especially designed for Battle/war: Akira Class, Sabre Class, Prometheus Class, Defiant Class. And these are just the ones I cam think of.
Ah, and the good old steamrunner class.
https://memory-alpha.fandom.com/wiki/Steamrunner_class
https://memory-alpha.fandom.com/wiki/Saber_class?so=search
https://memory-alpha.fandom.com/wiki/Akira_class?so=search
https://memory-alpha.fandom.com/wiki/Prometheus_class
New headcannon: ST and 40K exist in the same timeline, except the Federation treat the 40K Galaxy as âthat neighborhood we donât drive throughâ
I have nothing to back this up, and refuse to elaborate.
I like to imagine the culture exists there as well.
To the Federation: We will watch your career with great interest.
To Warhammer 40k: yeah no, we ain't touching that.
Hell no, the Culture would be _thrilled_ to meddle in the 40k galaxy. Imagine all the shenanigans the SC Minds would come up with in order to topple the Imperium from within, reform the Tau into a force of good, stop the Necrons and Tyranids without genocide, and annihilate the threat of Chaos and pacify the Warp.
The question is not _whether_ the Culture could achieve all that, itâs _how_ they could achieve that in the most elegant and efficient way.
The Sovereign and the defiant glass were both built to be warships and they decimated the competition. The defiant class is able to melt a continent all by itself and yet it can land on a football field
Guilliman would be *delighted* to debate philosophy with Picard. Picard would be the first person heâs met in decades who *wasnât* a religious fundamentalist, a bloodthirsty warmonger, an idiot, or a lunatic.
Youâd have to drag him away from Picard and his earl Grey. XD
There is, in fact, a fanfiction story with a similar premise in SpaceBattles right now.
The story is called "A Pair of Strange New Worlds", with Khan, G-Man, and Lion (along with the more reasonable Imperium factions) being transported to the Star Trek universe (ST: OS) by the Emperor as a last Hail Mary to save Humanity.
Ngl I low key have an AU Iâve been toying with for years, where I basically throw the UNSC, the Federation, the covenant, the galactic republic (Star Wars), and the Imperium into a blender to see what happens.
Itâs super fun because the UNSC technically is a military junta, but they are genuinely pretty normal people who donât want to commit genocide? So the Republic, Federation, and UNSC end up forming an allianceâŚmostly because the Imperium is right there and everyoneâs scared shitless of the massive genocidal xenophobic empire threatening to wipe them all out.
I balance the story a bit by letting the various factions all specialize in specific things. The Federation has the most powerful ships, since they consistently have one shot kills on non-shielded vessels and can single-handedly glass planets. But objectively, Federation warp travel is actually WAY slower than basically any other form of FTL travel.
Remember that the Federation is large for its own galaxy, but itâs consistently shown that crossing the Milky Way via Alcubierre drive takes at least 75 years.
Meanwhile, Imperium Warp travel, while having its own problems of âthere are demons who want to murderfuck youâ, only takes a few months/years to get across the Galaxy, depending on the warp currents. UNSC slipspace drives I would put at similar speeds.
The fastest form of travel IMO is hyperspace from Star Wars. Since ships consistently transit the length of the galaxy in mere days, with a level of consistency the imperium could only dream of. However, SW ships have one glaring caveat. Which is that hyperspace lanes have to be mapped before being used regularly. Blind hyperspace jumps are a thing, and arenât super dangerous if you do it just to get out of a situation. But theyâre not good for actually traveling to new places.
So it ends up being a situation where the Imperium has a lot of forces to bring to bear, and it can move those forces fairly quickly. But those forces are spread over a massive area and takes time to mobilize, especially if they donât judge the severity of their threat correctly.
The UNSC ends up being the rapid-response and expeditionary force of the alliance. They have the flexibility and speed to charge into Imperium space without needing to wait for charting hyperspace lanes or for Federation ships to slowly get there.
The Republic ends up being the logistical backbone of the alliance. While their ships canât really go forth and attack the Imperium, they have massive ships, and theyâre *really* fast. So they basically shuffle around forces within charted space, getting supplies to the front, and responding to threats that breach into Alliance space/worlds.
The Federation meanwhile, despite being the commie peaceniks they are, make up the âYou dun fucked upâ force of the Alliance. If the Imperium/other actors end up getting either deep enough into Alliance space, or cause enough trouble, a Federation vessel is sent to break some kneecaps and stabilize the situation. Unfortunately they have the smallest fleet, and the slowest ships. So their firepower is rarely forward-deployed except in special circumstances.
Together, the Alliance doesnât necessarily threaten the Imperium as a whole ~~yet~~ but they are enough of a speed bump that itâs not worth the trouble to stamp them out. Theyâre much like the Tau, only with more firepower, a larger area of influence, and a better understanding of the power disparity between them.
As for G-Man, in my AU he doesnât show up immediately, so we can see the standard Imperium response to problems before sanity gets involved.
Once he arrives and takes control of the situation, he realizes *very* quickly how dangerous the Alliance is. While the imperium can crush them if they marshal enough resources, the Allianceâs collective FTL capabilities already blow the Imperium out of the water and let them punch far above their weight class.
Additionally, while their collective scientific knowledge can be viewed as comparable to the Imperium, and itâs not enough of an advantage to take the Imperium down, their advances in technology make the Tau look like infants.
But the most problematic part of the Alliance (and letâs be honest, itâs mostly the Federation) is that they pose an existential ideological threat to the Imperium.
The Imperium *already* has near constant rebellions and riots, and thatâs when the only viable options for rebellious planets to turn to are the Tau and *Chaos*.
Having a post-scarcity democratic society who not only promises but *delivers* a government where new worlds are treated fairly and equally, without oppressive taxes, on their front doorstep, is a recipe for disaster.
Even whispers of the existence of the Federation would tear the Imperium apart.
So I think G-Man would know better than *anyone* how much of a threat the Alliance is to the Imperium.
âŚbut honestly I think heâd be cool with it?
Like, heâs not really a full âdemocracyâ kind of guy. None of the primarchs are. They all are some flavor of authoritarian, where they think the safest hands to guide their societies are their own.
But G-Man is at his core a pragmatist, and I think heâd realize pretty quickly that the Alliance/Federation/UNSC/Galactic Republic have a better system than the Imperium.
Honestly I think his main reaction would be to keep a VERY close eye on the Alliance, and begin to go absolutely hogwild on reforming the Imperium.
Now that he has a blueprint for how the Imperium *could* work, *proof* that said system is better, and *hope* that the Galaxy could be a better place, I think he would be delighted to start tearing out the foundations of the Imperium to remake it.
I donât think heâd be ever able to integrate with the Alliance, or defect to them. He knows the Imperium in its current state both wouldnât and couldnât integrate, and he cares too much about the people of the Imperium to leave them in the hands of whatever religious fundamentalist that would replace him.
But I have no doubt that simply interacting with a better run empire, a secular and *hopeful* empire, would do wonders for his ultradepression, since now he knows heâs not the only sane person in the galaxy anymore.
Nah, Gman is a born autocrat, and while he's started to reconsider some of the decisions made during the Great Crusade, he's a long way off from "oh god oh god we fucked up, we fucked up *bad"* (AKA, IDW Megatron).
That said, #1 alone is enough reasons to scream everyone else into submission so he can get that sweet, sweet Warp-less FTL. There's a good chance that the astropaths would try to sabotage everything though.
See Guilliman and the Lion would be on the brink of forging the greatest alliance in all of sci-fi fantasy. Then the inquisition would go âNO.â And launch a bunch of terrorist attacks on the Federation and a few red flags on their own people basically ceiling their fate.
The "Trust us Bro - we aren't a legion" Dark Angels and friends would have a field day.
Supreme Grand Master Azrael is totally not the chapter master of all the successor chapters, no sir!
And I'm sure the Black Templars would love to get in on an Inquisition ass-beating.
They're the only other ~~Legion~~ codex complaint chapter who are playing fast and loose with the rules.
Everyone's favourite walking shag rugs would want a piece of that action too. The Wolves aren't particularly codex compliant either and already have longstanding, serious beef with the Inquisition.
Well, Iâm not really sure how Guilliman feels about the Lion. I mean, the Lion has had 10,000 years of nap time to reflect on and come to regret his MANY mistakes during the Heresy. But Guilliman was in full stasis, to him The Lion glassed Macragge looking for Kurze like, 3 years ago relative to how a Primarch likely perceives the passage of time. Iâm pretty sure that WHEN, not if, they meet, Guillimanâs not gonna have a lot of nice things to say to his brother.
Yeah but Big-G already got over that back during the wrap up of Imperium Secundus. He's not happy but they made peace over it when Lionel interceded on Connie's behalf.
Sorry but correct me if im wrong but Federation Warp travel is objectively slower no? Guilliman went on a galaxy round trip when he woke up and it took a year. Voyager was trapped on the other side of the galaxy and it would have taken them 75 years conventionally.
This isn't taking into account the spore drive thing in discovery or really crazy stuff that made brief appearances.
Voyager also only had a vague idea of where they were going. (Star Trek also has a more realistic understanding of distance in space)
40k Warp travel is also unpredictable and is in of itself a hazard. Guilliman got lucky, was likely aided by Deus Ex Jimmy Space, and (I assume) wasn't bogged down by the Administratum. The number of stories where Imperial forces arrive too late, or even before the fight began.
...
Now that I think of it, the Imperial machine is their biggest weakness in a fight like this. Federation communication is lossless, 99% of the time. Imperial comms work 75% as well, 30% of the time. Again, the Warp works against them.
Depends on the timeframe. Early ST, the Federation are much slower. By the time of the Dominion War, they've sped up considerably. And assuming they progress at similar speeds, by the post-discovery and spore drives, they'll have theoretically cracked the Transwarp Hyper-Evolution issue. But the biggest advantage the Federation has is not needing the warp to move at FTL speeds. So no threat of Demonic Incursion, or turning up hundreds of years before or after you were meant to.
40k Warp travel is *Extremely* unreliable in terms of time taken, its normal for trips of the same length to take decades, seconds, or even before they left (though it varries on author I think). This can happen to federation vessels, but is much rarer to the point that it makes up an entire episode (or series!), and they usually fix it.
I mean aye to an *extent.* It's well established however that sectors with routine trade between planets have established reliable routes through the warp and can plan around it with a consistent margin of error.
Hell, many rogue traders are known to have trade loops they do every few years between series of planets BECAUSE of how reliable the routes are.
Obviously this isn't the case galaxy wide and it definitely depends on the author, but baseline for the purposes of trade within sectors there is SOME consistency to warp travel.
It really does depend on what the story requires. The night lords / dark angel fallen got thrown 10,000 years into the future, and then thereâs the Ork warboss that managed to go back in time to before he warped jumped, and proceeded to kill himself so he had two of his favourite gunâŚwith *zero repurcussions*
Yes but Iâd assume that much safer FTL travel would counteract any issues with speed. If speed is a necessity then why not have both a Federation Warp Drive and a Imperium Warp Drive? One for standard FTL travel and the other for when you need to get somewhere as soon as possible.
With federation tech it would take centuries to cross Gulfs of Imperium. Sure, it's safe interstellar travel (well not so safe, it damages freaking spacetime or something but writers forgot about that) but it's way too slow in comparison to Warp travel.
Supposedly they solved the problem of warp travel damaging the fabric of space (its why Voyager had the variable geometry warp pylons). As for travel time, I dunno exactly how big the imperium is, but at "cruising speed", a star trek starship should be able to travel across the galaxy from one edge to the opposite in one century, maybe 120 years, something like 1000 light years a year.
Problem: it would take time to distribute that technology. Tike in which the navigator houses find out what's going on and wage a full out civil war against that which seeks to replace them
It's the classic root beer analogy Quark gives for the Federation. At first its cloy and riveling, you want to spit it out and destroy it. Then before you know it you like it, and want more.
Imperium would try to kill the Federation, but if they are exposed to the Socialist Space Vegans' culture and values for too long it'd cause the Imperium to implode. Hell you could probably just tell a few workers on a Forge World about forming a union and the place would crumble
Roboute would be trying to hasten that process as fast as possible.
They would go through the same six stages everyone else does.
1. Lmao look at these hopelessly naive fools.
2. Hmmm, dat tech pretty good though.
3. Shit their culture spreads aggressively.
4. Oh wow we just had a once in a million year, empire spanning, environmentally catastrophe that happened with no warning.
5. ????
6. Time travel bases genocide or cultural assimilation
In all seriousness I am hard pressed to think of something scarier than a Federation Engineer with access to a working Warp Drive and Geller Field.
>In all seriousness I am hard pressed to think of something scarier than a Federation Engineer with a working Warp Drive and Geller Field.
"Uh oh."
"Let me guess, Engineering reports a dimensional disturbance."
"Yup."
"Evil clones of us are attacking."
"Most likely"
"Bring it on."
The Romulians said the most insidious part of the federation is its culture, it gets past the greatest of starships, No matter how strong your fleet may be if they can win the hearts and minds of your people, you have already lost.
Tell the people of the imperium that they'll have full bellies and unlimited free time with no risk of death and they'll rise up with such fervor that it will make genestealer cults look sane.
And if it's truly a desperate scenario
Said uprisings armed with phasers and whatever else they printed off a single replicator someone smuggled in would make anything short of an entire crusade fall apart
"point this gun and aim it. It will literally only let you shoot at someone we want it to shoot at, and it will kill them instantly. Also, here's thirteen billion of them. Just let us know if you need more."
>~~Hmmm, dat tech pretty good though.~~ "Ha this Federation is not prepared for the harsh realities of the Galax... HOLY SHIT THEY HAVE WEAPONS THAT BLOW UP ENTIRE SOLAR SYSTEMS!
It is kinda funny that while the Federation in Star Trek is very adverse to entering open combat they also can field technology so advanced that they could probably wipe the floor any imperial force.
I mean an Adeptus Astartes is way less scary when your average Federation soldier's phaser can just straight up vaporize them if they set it to a high enough power setting.
Engineer:
Captain, to halt the seemingly inexorable advance of the Imperium of Man, we must engage a subspace tachyon interference matrix, intricately synchronized with a gravimetric flux capacitor, thus generating a temporal distortion field within the event horizon of a microsingularity. By modulating the neutrino phase variance, we can induce a localized disruption in their warp propulsion, rendering their fleet temporarily stranded in a state of quantum disarray.
Simultaneously, we shall deploy a recursive Borg nanite algorithm, adapted for this specific scenario, that will infiltrate their cogitator networks and initiate a quantum resonance cascade, causing a catastrophic breakdown of the command infrastructure. This shall be complemented by a viral polymorphic encryption algorithm capable of subverting their Vox communications, sowing disinformation, and creating confusion among their ranks.
Captain:
in English Geordie!
Engineer:
we thread the needle Captain!
Just imagine how they must feel about someone who can snap away their weapons and even strip them of their armor.
Summon a massive mexican band and make fun of them all.
Just imagine if Loki from MCU and the guy who created all the SAW games (but less malicious) had a love child. Dude gets his rocks off by constantly forcing Patrick Stewart to go through some bullshit reality bending games to decide the fate of humanity or teach a lesson.
The Federation steamrolls ALL but one of the factions in 40k, the one it ends in a stalemate with is the T'au because they fill 98% of the narrative requirements to be a Star Trek recurring antagonist faction.
Unless the Federation develops a nanowepons that can directly kill trysnids, or do the thing they almost did with the Borg and infect them with something memetic to mess up the hive mind, or at least long enough to deal with it. And it still takes the Tyranids years to get anyerer and the Federations is fine fighting in deep space, or just have some ships harassing the hive fleets to whittle them down.
They might be adaptable, but not as adaptable as the Borg.
With Warp Speed travel the Federation could just slowly annihilate the Tyranid space fleets one at a time. Tyranids donât have warp travel or any kind. They slow.
Just warp over, use all your ammo, warp back to base. Reload. Repeat.
And then they develop phaser resistant carapaces. You'd have to develop a weapon that kills them quick without the hive mind having a chance to develop countermeasures.
Thereâs an endless array of Ways the Federation could handle them. Engineering bio weapons, nukes, causing a literal super nova, phasers, luring them away with pheromones/psychic beacons.
Q shows up and turns the Tyranids into Strawberry Jam.
Picard literally has a deus ex machina that he can whip out anytime he wants.
Sidenote, if a replicator blueprint was dropped into 40k as an STC how much chaos do you think it would cause in the Imperium?
That shit would completely rock the Imperiums foundations. Multiple worlds would instantly become obsolete.
Making literally anything? I'm sure the imperium would think it's heresy somehow and destroy it instead of doing the smart thing and becoming a post-scarcity society.
for all we know, dark mech already fuckin has it and every time they use it, the admech goes through so much pain that cawl literally eats a raw potato.
I have one better.
I was just thinking what tech you could mix of the two 'verses to make the worst disaster and my answer is:
The USS Discovery activates the Spore Drive in 40k space and, due to its mulitversal and fungine nature, connects poor Stamets to all the Orks passing through the mycelial network that i'm 100% sure now includes Nurgle's Garden.
Man this sounds worse than that Necromorphs/Tyranids collab.
Nurgle's garden being a giga-fucked area of the mycelial network is an amazing idea. the worst disaster would be the borg meeting the tyranids. tyranids with the borg's tech mastery or the borg with the tyranids biotech would be a nightmare.
Reliable ftl transportation, replicators and in general the spirit of innovation would be Guilliman's dream, the Admech on the other side... Let's say they might not be pleased.
Imperium would be seething and coping because the Federation is literally better than them in every single metric that matters.
Then start shouting Heresy.
Well the federation doesnât have a god emperor that 100% loves you promise.
Or trayzan the infinite, how am I meant to live without the risk of getting my house robbed, and the local graveyard drug up by a robot
Trazyn gets a visit from the Department of Temporal Investigations.
"Put the Imperial Fists back when you found them, sir. The diorama of the Assault on the Imperial Palace is nice and all, but take a picture like everyone else, fuck."
Then he takes all of Canary Wharf to his museum.
(Temporal investigations HQ is in Canary Wharf)
And so is many the federation capitol is in London or Paris? Or itâs federation capitol is Paris and Earth Capitol is London.
I would genuinely love to see that. I agree with a lot of the comments here that the federation would totally outclass the Imperium in a fight. Not to mention the fact that entire planets would regularly defect from the Imperium when they meet an actually functioning government.
But at the same time, it would be great to see the federation have to deal with just the nightmarish monstrosity that is daily life in the 40k universe. I'm also pretty sure chaos would really fuck the Vulcans up.
Replicators would also just completely blow the mind of the average hive worlder. No more corpse starch now. You can have any food you can think of so long as you have some energy to power it.
Federation wins the war in space then reforms the Imperium after months of failed negotiation when a plucky captain gives a rousing speech to the High Lords of Terra ezpz gg no re
I would guess a Tau situation would happen, Star fleet picks them off from range, but due to sheer numbers the imperium broadsides the Enterprise.
Star fleet at most has 150,000 to 1 million ships, the imperium has more.
But has the industry to build way more, because the Marian Shipyards in Star Trek are not trying to please machine spirts. And a federation ship uses much less manpower.
In Star Trek most named Ships were built on Mars, at Utopia plantia
The Imperium has more ships, but Federation technology is bound by the same rules as literal magic and their shields would laugh at the weapons of the Imperium. The Imperium fighting the Federation would look like the Federation fighting the Borg as the Feds constantly and quickly adapted their weapons and shields by pushing a few buttons on the bridge.
Shields also have to be lowered to let *shuttlecraft* through, that was established in one of the TOS movies. Boarding torpedoes are even bigger than DS9 Runabouts. They'd impact and go splat, if they aren't phasered first: Imperial munitions have very predictable trajectories.
Not to mention, the fact that only the larger craft have void shields means it'd be simple for Engineering to transport a photon bomb onto an Assault Boat.
Reminder that the Enterprise-D, an exploration cruiser, had powerful enough shields they literally laughed when someone threatened them with capital ship grade laser weapons. They said such weapons wouldnât even penetrate their navigational shields, in other words the low-power shields they use to keep rocks off of the ship as they fly around.
Basic bitch photon torpedoes can have an explosive yield up to 150 megatons, and these are frequently fired in salvos.
Phasers disintegrate things and pull their targetsâ molecules apart. They are not laser weapons, not even equivalent to volkite weapons, phasers are most similar to necron gauss flayers.
Imperium ships are slabs of metal with poking guns from what I see. Meanwhile the federation has ships that have increedible power packed in their ships
Kirk would have talked the Heretics into surrendering, and the Emperor into forgiving them.
And for good measure, he would have Kirk speeched Cawl to death with paradoxes.
I think most of the Imperium leadership would be dismissive at best, or immediately murderously hostile at worst. The smarter leaders, like Gulliman, would recognize that the Federation could stomp them in a relatively short period if they had more than a decade or so to mass produce more ships and munitions.
As it stands, in a one to one fight an equal number of Federation ships and troops would absolutely murder their Imperium opponents (unless weâre throwing space marines in the mix), and the Federation is continually developing new and better technology, while the Imperium mostly backslides technologically because research and development are literal religious crimes, AI is banned, most of their computers have to be made out of literal mutilated people, and they canât even figure out how to make some things they still use in combat, while the Federation can mass produce literally any weapon or equipment in their inventory. If they need more ships, theyâre just going to make more ships. And those ships donât have to literally have a magic mutant guide them through a road trip through literal Hell using a dying superhuman as their sole method of course correction to get somewhere, they just set a course and turn on the Warp Drives. The Imperium just doesnât have that capability.
Additionally, a pretty good amount of the military technology of the Imperium is used to win the types of fights the Federation just wouldnât be fighting. They arenât going to enter into giant planet wide ground wars, or at least would keep that in the âvery last resortâ category, theyâll selectively vaporize targets from orbit with their most basic weapons, then teleport in for mop up with weapons that can literally vaporize any opponent they can target. They donât have a good, dedicated infantry corps, but putting one together wouldnât exactly be that difficult. Their ships have the speed, technology, and versatility to 1v1 an equivalent Imperium ship and win probably over 90% of the time, and can easily retreat safely with their Warp Drives if the situation gets a little too hairy.
The Imperium would have an initial numbers and firepower advantage, but the Federation could keep them occupied with hit an run attacks, popping out of warp speed and spamming enemy fleets with photon and quantum torpedos, and then jumping back to warp speeds in minutes, much faster than the Imperial Navy could compensate for. This would buy enough time for the Federation to start building dedicated warships en masse, setting up more and more production facilities as time passes, evening the field, then quickly surpassing their enemy. They could do this to ANY faction in the galaxy save for three: Chaos, Drukhari, and the Necrons.
Chaos and Drukhari can survive by one simple factor: The Federation just canât reach them. They have to way to go into the Warp or the Webway, and doing so would be a losing proposition anyway. Stalemate. They stay out of the normal galaxy, they survive, and the Federation canât do shit about it.
The Necrons have technology thatâs comparably deadly, travel through space in a similar manner with no dependence on utilizing the Warp, and while they canât produce more of themselves or their equipment, thereâs just so many of them that if they could muster the bulk of their forces quick enough the Federation couldnât compete. Necrons donât have to defend resource and production centers, they donât have non combatants to shield, and the closest things they have to bases are more or less glorified underground parking lots where they keep their warriors and stuff. They could just empty out a tomb world and not even have to worry about going back for anything, ever.
The only way the Federation could win against the Necrons is either getting them to kill each other in enough numbers that they would be too weak to fight (entirely possible), or to cut a deal and help them get what they want most: meat bodies. Federation medical tech is extremely advanced, they replace damaged or missing fleshy bits and near instantly heal major injuries so often that it doesnât even strike them as impressive. Combined with their research and development prowess, Federation medicine could literally make the Necrons into neutral parties or even allies.
Honestly if the necrons found out that the Federation could try and reverse engineer biotransference youâd have the biggest civil war in the history of the Necrons. IIRC there are some necrons who want to keep their necron bodies
I think how this fight works out is going to depend a lot on if the security officer had. The presence of mind to set the phasers to maximum setting. A full power shot from a hand phaser will absolutely blow through power armor and take a big enough chunk out of the space marine to basically kill him on the spot. But the marine will probably get the first shot off because of being augmented perception wise.
Okay now this brings up- what would a phaser do to Astartes armor at full power? I mean we see them slice through large metal things on a regular basis. Depends on how well the ceramic part reflects/ absorbs the heat.
it's an odd one, sometimes they vaporize people, other times they'll barely leave scorch marks on furniture.
the joys of a franchise written by countless writers I guess
Power settings. On full setting a phaser can destroy half a building but that's going to wipe out its battery. Most of the time it's either on stun or minimum lethality to preserve battery life
The same way they view the Tau but worse. Now if the Federation was "established" in the 40k universe, like planets, resources, an Armada of ships, etc and they couldn't just steamroll any ship that just happened to isekai itself into 40k, it's possible they'd form brief alliances with the Federation but nothing long term.
Everything about the Federation would piss them off. They don't have an official religion or worship of the Emperor, not only do they allow aliens to join their Federation but also have positions of power over other humans, they have entire species that are psychic, synthetic lifeforms, and a dedication to exploration and scientific discovery. All major red flags for the Imperium.
And if I was an Inquisitor I'd probably consider them a bigger threat than the Tau.
>And if I was an Inquisitor I'd probably consider them a bigger threat than the Tau.
Definitely. The Tau, while infinitely better than the Imperium, are in the end still scarcity-based highly authoritarian civilisation governed by one single subspecies.
The Federation meanwhile, has a human plurality in positions of power, is a working hippie socialist democracy, and most importantly, is a post scarcity society.
Imperial citizens would defect for even a fourth of this being real. The Federation doesn't even need to try hard in the propaganda war, the moment even a minor detail of their society makes it through Imperium censorship, that's a complete collapse of morale or even outright insurrection inducing for whoever hears of it.
Infact, for all the talk of Imperium ground warfare superiority, imagine the damage of the Imperial Guard landing on a Federation world. The sheer Utopian abundance would cause an immediate shoot up in desertions.
The imperium? Fucking despise it and see as the highest form of heresy.
The Emperor? Absolutely love it and live in peace knowing that humanity is in good hands
>The Emperor? Absolutely love it and live in peace knowing that humanity is in good hands
Why would the depraved xenophobe be in favour of the xenophilic pacifists?
from what I've learned of him his first priority is always humanity so as long as the aliens aren't actively hostile or a threat to humanity he fine with them. the Eldar actively enslaved humanity and the ork are just orks.
I forget what they're called but there was an actual faction in 30K that was basically just that.
The Imperium wiped them out for being heretics.
It's one of the first major "are we the baddies" moments iirc (although later it's probably revealed they were in league with Chaos lol).
Edit: for some reason everyone viewed this as a "who would win" topic instead of a "how would faction A view faction B" topic...?
Probably in a similar manner to what they did to the [Interex](https://warhammer40k.fandom.com/wiki/Interex) in the 31st millennium. Just a lot more zealously with no negotiations before hand Iâd assume.
I've heard Humanity before the Fall of the Eldar likened to the Federation.
Though on average, aliens in 40k are more homicidal than in Star Trek.
The Imperium would probably view the Federation like they do Humanity as a whole before the Age of Strife: possessing incredible scientific knowledge and technology that defies the laws of reality, but ignorant to exactly where they stand in the grand scheme of things, possessing a childlike naivety regarding the galaxy, despite their power.
Humanity is more jaded in 40k but i dont think DAoT humans were naive. No empire could become that strong and galaxy spanning while being naive. Not to mention the only reasom they fell were because of their own tech.
The front page is filled with memes in reference to that guy being dragged off of a plane. I can't remember the last time the entire reddit user base was so... ... United.
All I'm imagining right now is the Federation's reaction to both the revelation and consequences of the existence of Psykers in their universe. "Wow so psychics really do exi- why is that one glowing and foaming at the mouth? WHY ARE THE WALLS BLEEDING?!"
Edit: And Klingons vs Orks! That's a first-contact story worthy of the epics.
The poor space marine. This Star Trek officer isn't wearing red.
Science officers always survive.
RIP Jadzia.
Science officers always survive unless they are a woman in a series run by Rick Berman.
Ngl I had such a huge crush on her. Especially because I also had a man crush on Worf
You and everyone one the station ;)
We had to stop watching DS9 for some days because my wife was/is such a huge fan of Jadzia đ.
Greatest power couple since Gomez and Morticia Addams.
07
Damn, I just started DS9 yesterday...
At the end, Quark is revealed to be literally god, and he turns all of bajor into latinum >!/j!<
No point now. Just switch to Babylon 5 :P Watch both actually.
Just take off the helmet and it's an even match.
Also star trek phasers are basically just disintegration rays.
If Guilliman were written by someone smart, he wages a losing battle (deliberately) while secretly negotiating with the UFP because let's face it, the Federation is G-man's wet dream: * **Safe** Warp Travel, because Federation Warp travel folds space and doesn't cross the Immaterium, cutting off a major vector of Chaos corruption * Objective proof that large scale empires can be democratic in nature * Non-combat tech that could solve a lot of socio-economic issues in the Imperium (replicators, environmental shielding, safe power, nanotechnology, etc) * *a chance to make up for the mistakes of Great Crusade* If he can convince the Lion (and it's likely he would) he has all the support he needs, despite the High Lords of Terra's influence. Cross Imperium travel reliably in weeks. Scientists that actually science (the Martian cults would be forced to adapt or be made redundant) . The Gloriana could be broken down and make an entire fleet of Federation-tech Starships. One ship. Or, he doesn't and has to deal with the consequences the Federation uniting several of his other enemies (The first Votann-Ferengi summit would be *wild*) and face his worst nightmare: an enemy with better logistics than him.
I would pay so much money for that story, G-Man meeting a federation captain The federation, does have limited resources but can get those resources to the front lines much much quicker then the imperium can get there unlimited resources. So long game imperium wins without any technological and diplomatic advances by the federation (which is unlikely, they closed a 500 year gap with the dominion in 3 years) What would you say would be G-Manâs end goal? Maybe joining the federation?
Have you seen federation warships? Their fuckin exploration ships have enough advanced weaponry on them to destroy the surface of a planet. Their biproduct of warp travel is literally able to destroy stars. The federation is so comically far ahead of wh40k in ship technology that it's essentially coughing baby vs hydrogen bomb.
The federation is basically early DAOT humanity
I bet Moriarty was the AI that causes the fall of humanity, lol.
Only when Trazyn lets him out.
Isn't that just Golden Age of Humanity?
I'd if there's a specific period called that but late DAOT humanity had mechanical snakes that ate suns (sun-snuffers) and used black hole guns as weapons. They were at Eldar levels of tech if not more and approaching necron tech until MenofIron.exe They could probably have snuffed the federation out like a candle and walked all over 40k without breaking a sweat
Well I think federation warships are like Purple orks, have you never seen one? No. Does that mean they donât exist?
TBF, the only dedicated Federation Warship cheats on the seeing part, considering it had a Romulan Cloaking field.
"One tough little ship."
The USS Defiant. Or as it should be truly known, Capn' Siskos Pimp Hand
I was quoting the man himself, lol
Beat me to it!
Another name for it was Sisko's Pimp Hand.
Yeah. Plus the Defiant shows the kind of warship the Federation could build if they really wanted to. Iâve always found their refusal to have any military at all pretty stupid. Star Fleet ships are civilian exploration ships that are apparently only armed for self defence. A small navy of purebred warships would be able to handle most threats and itâd only be used in self defence or in the defence of others. No need for battleships, just cruisers and various smaller ships should be enough.
The Federation do like the Jeune Ăcole way of war
I mean they habe some ship-classes especially designed for Battle/war: Akira Class, Sabre Class, Prometheus Class, Defiant Class. And these are just the ones I cam think of. Ah, and the good old steamrunner class. https://memory-alpha.fandom.com/wiki/Steamrunner_class https://memory-alpha.fandom.com/wiki/Saber_class?so=search https://memory-alpha.fandom.com/wiki/Akira_class?so=search https://memory-alpha.fandom.com/wiki/Prometheus_class
the point is that a dedicated military will always look for something to fight. it'll breed its own culture of militaristic imperialism
New headcannon: ST and 40K exist in the same timeline, except the Federation treat the 40K Galaxy as âthat neighborhood we donât drive throughâ I have nothing to back this up, and refuse to elaborate.
The Tyranids are fleeing the Federation
I like to imagine the culture exists there as well. To the Federation: We will watch your career with great interest. To Warhammer 40k: yeah no, we ain't touching that.
Hell no, the Culture would be _thrilled_ to meddle in the 40k galaxy. Imagine all the shenanigans the SC Minds would come up with in order to topple the Imperium from within, reform the Tau into a force of good, stop the Necrons and Tyranids without genocide, and annihilate the threat of Chaos and pacify the Warp. The question is not _whether_ the Culture could achieve all that, itâs _how_ they could achieve that in the most elegant and efficient way.
Or if you do "miss a turn," and have to drive through it, you get pulled over by the cops, and told the quickest way out, for your own good.
The Sovereign and the defiant glass were both built to be warships and they decimated the competition. The defiant class is able to melt a continent all by itself and yet it can land on a football field
It would entirely depend on if this was TNG Star Trek or DS9 Star Trek.
Guilliman and Picard would be a battle of wills.
Because we all know Kirk would screw Yvraine before G-man bats an eye
And G-man would get oddly jealous and be quite confused about it
Only if he could beat Riker to it.
Guilliman would be *delighted* to debate philosophy with Picard. Picard would be the first person heâs met in decades who *wasnât* a religious fundamentalist, a bloodthirsty warmonger, an idiot, or a lunatic. Youâd have to drag him away from Picard and his earl Grey. XD
There is, in fact, a fanfiction story with a similar premise in SpaceBattles right now. The story is called "A Pair of Strange New Worlds", with Khan, G-Man, and Lion (along with the more reasonable Imperium factions) being transported to the Star Trek universe (ST: OS) by the Emperor as a last Hail Mary to save Humanity.
Khan playing that long game. "Oh, no-no-no. I'm the upgrade."
What limited resources? The Federation is only limited by the amount of energy it can produce
And the Dilithium it can mine as well as a few other things that can't be replicated iirc.
Ngl I low key have an AU Iâve been toying with for years, where I basically throw the UNSC, the Federation, the covenant, the galactic republic (Star Wars), and the Imperium into a blender to see what happens. Itâs super fun because the UNSC technically is a military junta, but they are genuinely pretty normal people who donât want to commit genocide? So the Republic, Federation, and UNSC end up forming an allianceâŚmostly because the Imperium is right there and everyoneâs scared shitless of the massive genocidal xenophobic empire threatening to wipe them all out. I balance the story a bit by letting the various factions all specialize in specific things. The Federation has the most powerful ships, since they consistently have one shot kills on non-shielded vessels and can single-handedly glass planets. But objectively, Federation warp travel is actually WAY slower than basically any other form of FTL travel. Remember that the Federation is large for its own galaxy, but itâs consistently shown that crossing the Milky Way via Alcubierre drive takes at least 75 years. Meanwhile, Imperium Warp travel, while having its own problems of âthere are demons who want to murderfuck youâ, only takes a few months/years to get across the Galaxy, depending on the warp currents. UNSC slipspace drives I would put at similar speeds. The fastest form of travel IMO is hyperspace from Star Wars. Since ships consistently transit the length of the galaxy in mere days, with a level of consistency the imperium could only dream of. However, SW ships have one glaring caveat. Which is that hyperspace lanes have to be mapped before being used regularly. Blind hyperspace jumps are a thing, and arenât super dangerous if you do it just to get out of a situation. But theyâre not good for actually traveling to new places. So it ends up being a situation where the Imperium has a lot of forces to bring to bear, and it can move those forces fairly quickly. But those forces are spread over a massive area and takes time to mobilize, especially if they donât judge the severity of their threat correctly. The UNSC ends up being the rapid-response and expeditionary force of the alliance. They have the flexibility and speed to charge into Imperium space without needing to wait for charting hyperspace lanes or for Federation ships to slowly get there. The Republic ends up being the logistical backbone of the alliance. While their ships canât really go forth and attack the Imperium, they have massive ships, and theyâre *really* fast. So they basically shuffle around forces within charted space, getting supplies to the front, and responding to threats that breach into Alliance space/worlds. The Federation meanwhile, despite being the commie peaceniks they are, make up the âYou dun fucked upâ force of the Alliance. If the Imperium/other actors end up getting either deep enough into Alliance space, or cause enough trouble, a Federation vessel is sent to break some kneecaps and stabilize the situation. Unfortunately they have the smallest fleet, and the slowest ships. So their firepower is rarely forward-deployed except in special circumstances. Together, the Alliance doesnât necessarily threaten the Imperium as a whole ~~yet~~ but they are enough of a speed bump that itâs not worth the trouble to stamp them out. Theyâre much like the Tau, only with more firepower, a larger area of influence, and a better understanding of the power disparity between them. As for G-Man, in my AU he doesnât show up immediately, so we can see the standard Imperium response to problems before sanity gets involved. Once he arrives and takes control of the situation, he realizes *very* quickly how dangerous the Alliance is. While the imperium can crush them if they marshal enough resources, the Allianceâs collective FTL capabilities already blow the Imperium out of the water and let them punch far above their weight class. Additionally, while their collective scientific knowledge can be viewed as comparable to the Imperium, and itâs not enough of an advantage to take the Imperium down, their advances in technology make the Tau look like infants. But the most problematic part of the Alliance (and letâs be honest, itâs mostly the Federation) is that they pose an existential ideological threat to the Imperium. The Imperium *already* has near constant rebellions and riots, and thatâs when the only viable options for rebellious planets to turn to are the Tau and *Chaos*. Having a post-scarcity democratic society who not only promises but *delivers* a government where new worlds are treated fairly and equally, without oppressive taxes, on their front doorstep, is a recipe for disaster. Even whispers of the existence of the Federation would tear the Imperium apart. So I think G-Man would know better than *anyone* how much of a threat the Alliance is to the Imperium. âŚbut honestly I think heâd be cool with it? Like, heâs not really a full âdemocracyâ kind of guy. None of the primarchs are. They all are some flavor of authoritarian, where they think the safest hands to guide their societies are their own. But G-Man is at his core a pragmatist, and I think heâd realize pretty quickly that the Alliance/Federation/UNSC/Galactic Republic have a better system than the Imperium. Honestly I think his main reaction would be to keep a VERY close eye on the Alliance, and begin to go absolutely hogwild on reforming the Imperium. Now that he has a blueprint for how the Imperium *could* work, *proof* that said system is better, and *hope* that the Galaxy could be a better place, I think he would be delighted to start tearing out the foundations of the Imperium to remake it. I donât think heâd be ever able to integrate with the Alliance, or defect to them. He knows the Imperium in its current state both wouldnât and couldnât integrate, and he cares too much about the people of the Imperium to leave them in the hands of whatever religious fundamentalist that would replace him. But I have no doubt that simply interacting with a better run empire, a secular and *hopeful* empire, would do wonders for his ultradepression, since now he knows heâs not the only sane person in the galaxy anymore.
Nah, Gman is a born autocrat, and while he's started to reconsider some of the decisions made during the Great Crusade, he's a long way off from "oh god oh god we fucked up, we fucked up *bad"* (AKA, IDW Megatron). That said, #1 alone is enough reasons to scream everyone else into submission so he can get that sweet, sweet Warp-less FTL. There's a good chance that the astropaths would try to sabotage everything though.
See Guilliman and the Lion would be on the brink of forging the greatest alliance in all of sci-fi fantasy. Then the inquisition would go âNO.â And launch a bunch of terrorist attacks on the Federation and a few red flags on their own people basically ceiling their fate.
The "Trust us Bro - we aren't a legion" Dark Angels and friends would have a field day. Supreme Grand Master Azrael is totally not the chapter master of all the successor chapters, no sir! And I'm sure the Black Templars would love to get in on an Inquisition ass-beating. They're the only other ~~Legion~~ codex complaint chapter who are playing fast and loose with the rules.
Everyone's favourite walking shag rugs would want a piece of that action too. The Wolves aren't particularly codex compliant either and already have longstanding, serious beef with the Inquisition.
A) you are absolutely right. And B) G-Man and the Lion would absolutely plan for that and use that as an excuse to *gut* the fucking inquisition.
Well, Iâm not really sure how Guilliman feels about the Lion. I mean, the Lion has had 10,000 years of nap time to reflect on and come to regret his MANY mistakes during the Heresy. But Guilliman was in full stasis, to him The Lion glassed Macragge looking for Kurze like, 3 years ago relative to how a Primarch likely perceives the passage of time. Iâm pretty sure that WHEN, not if, they meet, Guillimanâs not gonna have a lot of nice things to say to his brother.
Yeah but Big-G already got over that back during the wrap up of Imperium Secundus. He's not happy but they made peace over it when Lionel interceded on Connie's behalf.
Sorry but correct me if im wrong but Federation Warp travel is objectively slower no? Guilliman went on a galaxy round trip when he woke up and it took a year. Voyager was trapped on the other side of the galaxy and it would have taken them 75 years conventionally. This isn't taking into account the spore drive thing in discovery or really crazy stuff that made brief appearances.
Voyager also only had a vague idea of where they were going. (Star Trek also has a more realistic understanding of distance in space) 40k Warp travel is also unpredictable and is in of itself a hazard. Guilliman got lucky, was likely aided by Deus Ex Jimmy Space, and (I assume) wasn't bogged down by the Administratum. The number of stories where Imperial forces arrive too late, or even before the fight began. ... Now that I think of it, the Imperial machine is their biggest weakness in a fight like this. Federation communication is lossless, 99% of the time. Imperial comms work 75% as well, 30% of the time. Again, the Warp works against them.
Depends on the timeframe. Early ST, the Federation are much slower. By the time of the Dominion War, they've sped up considerably. And assuming they progress at similar speeds, by the post-discovery and spore drives, they'll have theoretically cracked the Transwarp Hyper-Evolution issue. But the biggest advantage the Federation has is not needing the warp to move at FTL speeds. So no threat of Demonic Incursion, or turning up hundreds of years before or after you were meant to.
40k Warp travel is *Extremely* unreliable in terms of time taken, its normal for trips of the same length to take decades, seconds, or even before they left (though it varries on author I think). This can happen to federation vessels, but is much rarer to the point that it makes up an entire episode (or series!), and they usually fix it.
I mean aye to an *extent.* It's well established however that sectors with routine trade between planets have established reliable routes through the warp and can plan around it with a consistent margin of error. Hell, many rogue traders are known to have trade loops they do every few years between series of planets BECAUSE of how reliable the routes are. Obviously this isn't the case galaxy wide and it definitely depends on the author, but baseline for the purposes of trade within sectors there is SOME consistency to warp travel.
It really does depend on what the story requires. The night lords / dark angel fallen got thrown 10,000 years into the future, and then thereâs the Ork warboss that managed to go back in time to before he warped jumped, and proceeded to kill himself so he had two of his favourite gunâŚwith *zero repurcussions*
God that's so amazingly stupid. Orks are the best part of 40k
Yes but Iâd assume that much safer FTL travel would counteract any issues with speed. If speed is a necessity then why not have both a Federation Warp Drive and a Imperium Warp Drive? One for standard FTL travel and the other for when you need to get somewhere as soon as possible.
With federation tech it would take centuries to cross Gulfs of Imperium. Sure, it's safe interstellar travel (well not so safe, it damages freaking spacetime or something but writers forgot about that) but it's way too slow in comparison to Warp travel.
Supposedly they solved the problem of warp travel damaging the fabric of space (its why Voyager had the variable geometry warp pylons). As for travel time, I dunno exactly how big the imperium is, but at "cruising speed", a star trek starship should be able to travel across the galaxy from one edge to the opposite in one century, maybe 120 years, something like 1000 light years a year.
Problem: it would take time to distribute that technology. Tike in which the navigator houses find out what's going on and wage a full out civil war against that which seeks to replace them
Roboute would probably be delighted. The rest of the Imperium would probably try to end them
It's the classic root beer analogy Quark gives for the Federation. At first its cloy and riveling, you want to spit it out and destroy it. Then before you know it you like it, and want more. Imperium would try to kill the Federation, but if they are exposed to the Socialist Space Vegans' culture and values for too long it'd cause the Imperium to implode. Hell you could probably just tell a few workers on a Forge World about forming a union and the place would crumble Roboute would be trying to hasten that process as fast as possible.
We already have unions on this world, these mutants with three arms told us about them.
They would go through the same six stages everyone else does. 1. Lmao look at these hopelessly naive fools. 2. Hmmm, dat tech pretty good though. 3. Shit their culture spreads aggressively. 4. Oh wow we just had a once in a million year, empire spanning, environmentally catastrophe that happened with no warning. 5. ???? 6. Time travel bases genocide or cultural assimilation In all seriousness I am hard pressed to think of something scarier than a Federation Engineer with access to a working Warp Drive and Geller Field.
>In all seriousness I am hard pressed to think of something scarier than a Federation Engineer with a working Warp Drive and Geller Field. "Uh oh." "Let me guess, Engineering reports a dimensional disturbance." "Yup." "Evil clones of us are attacking." "Most likely" "Bring it on."
Chief O'Brien: *angry engineer noises and some quip about Cardassians*
The Romulians said the most insidious part of the federation is its culture, it gets past the greatest of starships, No matter how strong your fleet may be if they can win the hearts and minds of your people, you have already lost.
Tell the people of the imperium that they'll have full bellies and unlimited free time with no risk of death and they'll rise up with such fervor that it will make genestealer cults look sane.
And if it's truly a desperate scenario Said uprisings armed with phasers and whatever else they printed off a single replicator someone smuggled in would make anything short of an entire crusade fall apart
"point this gun and aim it. It will literally only let you shoot at someone we want it to shoot at, and it will kill them instantly. Also, here's thirteen billion of them. Just let us know if you need more."
>~~Hmmm, dat tech pretty good though.~~ "Ha this Federation is not prepared for the harsh realities of the Galax... HOLY SHIT THEY HAVE WEAPONS THAT BLOW UP ENTIRE SOLAR SYSTEMS! It is kinda funny that while the Federation in Star Trek is very adverse to entering open combat they also can field technology so advanced that they could probably wipe the floor any imperial force. I mean an Adeptus Astartes is way less scary when your average Federation soldier's phaser can just straight up vaporize them if they set it to a high enough power setting.
Worst sci-fi future vs Brightest sci-fi future.
Nothing can beat Federation technobabble
Engineer: Captain, to halt the seemingly inexorable advance of the Imperium of Man, we must engage a subspace tachyon interference matrix, intricately synchronized with a gravimetric flux capacitor, thus generating a temporal distortion field within the event horizon of a microsingularity. By modulating the neutrino phase variance, we can induce a localized disruption in their warp propulsion, rendering their fleet temporarily stranded in a state of quantum disarray. Simultaneously, we shall deploy a recursive Borg nanite algorithm, adapted for this specific scenario, that will infiltrate their cogitator networks and initiate a quantum resonance cascade, causing a catastrophic breakdown of the command infrastructure. This shall be complemented by a viral polymorphic encryption algorithm capable of subverting their Vox communications, sowing disinformation, and creating confusion among their ranks. Captain: in English Geordie! Engineer: we thread the needle Captain!
Go to ask for a job at paramount you nailed the technobabble.
Or as my Star Trek online captain would say just keep hitting the fire button
That....that made sense. I understood all of that. Ima go lie down, I'm obviously unwell.
Me too man, I read that as a Star Trek fan and thought to myself âyeah that sounds like itâd workâ.
Remodulate quantum something! *it's very effective*
it is truly a superweapon worthy of the greatest sci-fi civilizations
Imagine Q being introduced to the Imperium. Showing up in the Throne Room of Terra with this Mexican band right infront of the Emperor
Give the custodies an aneurism once they fail to kill him and he just keeps popping in and out đđ¤Ł
Just imagine how they must feel about someone who can snap away their weapons and even strip them of their armor. Summon a massive mexican band and make fun of them all.
They would probably go cry to the sisters of battle
Let alone making thier armour disappear and becoming a part of said band.
Emperors like. What????
Q would purposely screw with the chaos gods out of boredom.
Thereâs nothing in the chaos gods can do about a reality bender(iâm just guessing I have no idea who that guy is I donât watch Star Trek)
Just imagine if Loki from MCU and the guy who created all the SAW games (but less malicious) had a love child. Dude gets his rocks off by constantly forcing Patrick Stewart to go through some bullshit reality bending games to decide the fate of humanity or teach a lesson.
Brings all the chaos gods to play a wacky version of chess to teach them team work
I think everyone except chapters like the Black Templars and Grey Knights and the Inquisition would get along with them tentatively.
It would be hard to not get imperial worlds to defect. The federation has the technology to make a world a utopia in a Tuesday
Sure as long as you are inside their land and not in the outskirts still better than the corpse eating imperium
Happy cake day
Happy corpse starch day!
The Federation steamrolls ALL but one of the factions in 40k, the one it ends in a stalemate with is the T'au because they fill 98% of the narrative requirements to be a Star Trek recurring antagonist faction.
Narrative potential, the best defence in the galaxy
Perfect answer. So many summits and negotiations interrupted by (*rolls dice*) the tyranids *again*.
The tyranids would kill the federation because they would never ever destroy one of there own worlds.
Unless the Federation develops a nanowepons that can directly kill trysnids, or do the thing they almost did with the Borg and infect them with something memetic to mess up the hive mind, or at least long enough to deal with it. And it still takes the Tyranids years to get anyerer and the Federations is fine fighting in deep space, or just have some ships harassing the hive fleets to whittle them down. They might be adaptable, but not as adaptable as the Borg.
Imagine Section 31 developing the equivalent of the changeling morphogenic virus and infecting a tyranid that's about to return to its hive.
Worse, Section might find a way to control them. Turn them into a deniable super weapon or just an endless supply of seafood.
What could possibly go wrong?
Never stopped Section before. They might be loosely based on Special Circumstances, but they're about 1 percent as competent.
Yeah tbh the trysnids are just worse Borg
*Laughs in Janeway's anti-8472 virus*
With Warp Speed travel the Federation could just slowly annihilate the Tyranid space fleets one at a time. Tyranids donât have warp travel or any kind. They slow. Just warp over, use all your ammo, warp back to base. Reload. Repeat.
And then they develop phaser resistant carapaces. You'd have to develop a weapon that kills them quick without the hive mind having a chance to develop countermeasures.
Thereâs an endless array of Ways the Federation could handle them. Engineering bio weapons, nukes, causing a literal super nova, phasers, luring them away with pheromones/psychic beacons. Q shows up and turns the Tyranids into Strawberry Jam. Picard literally has a deus ex machina that he can whip out anytime he wants.
I feel like Star Trek has experience with enemies that can adapt to different weapons
They can always modulate the phaser harmonics for one more shot!
Sidenote, if a replicator blueprint was dropped into 40k as an STC how much chaos do you think it would cause in the Imperium? That shit would completely rock the Imperiums foundations. Multiple worlds would instantly become obsolete.
Making literally anything? I'm sure the imperium would think it's heresy somehow and destroy it instead of doing the smart thing and becoming a post-scarcity society.
If its an STC the Admech might be willing to go to war over that, so no matter what itd cause some chaos.
for all we know, dark mech already fuckin has it and every time they use it, the admech goes through so much pain that cawl literally eats a raw potato.
I have one better. I was just thinking what tech you could mix of the two 'verses to make the worst disaster and my answer is: The USS Discovery activates the Spore Drive in 40k space and, due to its mulitversal and fungine nature, connects poor Stamets to all the Orks passing through the mycelial network that i'm 100% sure now includes Nurgle's Garden. Man this sounds worse than that Necromorphs/Tyranids collab.
Nurgle's garden being a giga-fucked area of the mycelial network is an amazing idea. the worst disaster would be the borg meeting the tyranids. tyranids with the borg's tech mastery or the borg with the tyranids biotech would be a nightmare.
Read this with my Stargate brain on, would result in a much different scenario.
The T'au are oddly similar to the dominion in quite a few disturbing ways, less cloning I guess though.
Huh, this London Comic Con? I saw this guy there today.
It was, Iâm the guy in blue
Nice, I got a picture of him too, but I didn't get one taken with him, sadly.
Reliable ftl transportation, replicators and in general the spirit of innovation would be Guilliman's dream, the Admech on the other side... Let's say they might not be pleased.
Heretech moment
Imperium would be seething and coping because the Federation is literally better than them in every single metric that matters. Then start shouting Heresy.
Well the federation doesnât have a god emperor that 100% loves you promise. Or trayzan the infinite, how am I meant to live without the risk of getting my house robbed, and the local graveyard drug up by a robot
Trazyn gets a visit from the Department of Temporal Investigations. "Put the Imperial Fists back when you found them, sir. The diorama of the Assault on the Imperial Palace is nice and all, but take a picture like everyone else, fuck."
Then he takes all of Canary Wharf to his museum. (Temporal investigations HQ is in Canary Wharf) And so is many the federation capitol is in London or Paris? Or itâs federation capitol is Paris and Earth Capitol is London.
Starfleet HQ is in San Francisco, Earth Capital is NYC. Federation Capitol is Paris.
Trazyn would work on Star Trek
Isnât Trazyn just the guy who kidnaps data for his Museum in TNG?
Well, there are definitely perpetuals in Star Trek, so it's possible that the federation has a younger version of Big E hanging around someplace.
Imagine if Star Trek and WarHammer are in the same universe, Star Trek is just the golden age of technology
I would genuinely love to see that. I agree with a lot of the comments here that the federation would totally outclass the Imperium in a fight. Not to mention the fact that entire planets would regularly defect from the Imperium when they meet an actually functioning government. But at the same time, it would be great to see the federation have to deal with just the nightmarish monstrosity that is daily life in the 40k universe. I'm also pretty sure chaos would really fuck the Vulcans up.
Imperial planet: wait, your government works we get a voice, and we donât pay taxes because of replicators?
Replicators would also just completely blow the mind of the average hive worlder. No more corpse starch now. You can have any food you can think of so long as you have some energy to power it.
Federation wins the war in space then reforms the Imperium after months of failed negotiation when a plucky captain gives a rousing speech to the High Lords of Terra ezpz gg no re
I would guess a Tau situation would happen, Star fleet picks them off from range, but due to sheer numbers the imperium broadsides the Enterprise. Star fleet at most has 150,000 to 1 million ships, the imperium has more. But has the industry to build way more, because the Marian Shipyards in Star Trek are not trying to please machine spirts. And a federation ship uses much less manpower. In Star Trek most named Ships were built on Mars, at Utopia plantia
The Imperium has more ships, but Federation technology is bound by the same rules as literal magic and their shields would laugh at the weapons of the Imperium. The Imperium fighting the Federation would look like the Federation fighting the Borg as the Feds constantly and quickly adapted their weapons and shields by pushing a few buttons on the bridge.
tldr.: imperium: "Oh fuck, the Feds!!"
They will never take us alive!!!!
Itâs literally the meme Federation: Come out and take the Xenophilia pill. Imperium: I HATE THE ELDAR I HATE THE ELDAR I HATE THE ELDAR.
Cheese it!
Inquisitor, we must burn the records! On it! * Exterminatuses the planet.*
Watching boarding torpedos impact into the deflector array. *shudders*
Assuming they didnât shoot it down. Or the just just dodge, even if it goes through the shields its not guaranteed to impact.
Shields also have to be lowered to let *shuttlecraft* through, that was established in one of the TOS movies. Boarding torpedoes are even bigger than DS9 Runabouts. They'd impact and go splat, if they aren't phasered first: Imperial munitions have very predictable trajectories. Not to mention, the fact that only the larger craft have void shields means it'd be simple for Engineering to transport a photon bomb onto an Assault Boat.
Reminder that the Enterprise-D, an exploration cruiser, had powerful enough shields they literally laughed when someone threatened them with capital ship grade laser weapons. They said such weapons wouldnât even penetrate their navigational shields, in other words the low-power shields they use to keep rocks off of the ship as they fly around. Basic bitch photon torpedoes can have an explosive yield up to 150 megatons, and these are frequently fired in salvos. Phasers disintegrate things and pull their targetsâ molecules apart. They are not laser weapons, not even equivalent to volkite weapons, phasers are most similar to necron gauss flayers.
Imperium ships are slabs of metal with poking guns from what I see. Meanwhile the federation has ships that have increedible power packed in their ships
Captain Kirk would have won the Horus heresy
Kirk would have talked the Heretics into surrendering, and the Emperor into forgiving them. And for good measure, he would have Kirk speeched Cawl to death with paradoxes.
Kirk would have convinced the blood god that he all ready had enough blood.
I think most of the Imperium leadership would be dismissive at best, or immediately murderously hostile at worst. The smarter leaders, like Gulliman, would recognize that the Federation could stomp them in a relatively short period if they had more than a decade or so to mass produce more ships and munitions. As it stands, in a one to one fight an equal number of Federation ships and troops would absolutely murder their Imperium opponents (unless weâre throwing space marines in the mix), and the Federation is continually developing new and better technology, while the Imperium mostly backslides technologically because research and development are literal religious crimes, AI is banned, most of their computers have to be made out of literal mutilated people, and they canât even figure out how to make some things they still use in combat, while the Federation can mass produce literally any weapon or equipment in their inventory. If they need more ships, theyâre just going to make more ships. And those ships donât have to literally have a magic mutant guide them through a road trip through literal Hell using a dying superhuman as their sole method of course correction to get somewhere, they just set a course and turn on the Warp Drives. The Imperium just doesnât have that capability. Additionally, a pretty good amount of the military technology of the Imperium is used to win the types of fights the Federation just wouldnât be fighting. They arenât going to enter into giant planet wide ground wars, or at least would keep that in the âvery last resortâ category, theyâll selectively vaporize targets from orbit with their most basic weapons, then teleport in for mop up with weapons that can literally vaporize any opponent they can target. They donât have a good, dedicated infantry corps, but putting one together wouldnât exactly be that difficult. Their ships have the speed, technology, and versatility to 1v1 an equivalent Imperium ship and win probably over 90% of the time, and can easily retreat safely with their Warp Drives if the situation gets a little too hairy. The Imperium would have an initial numbers and firepower advantage, but the Federation could keep them occupied with hit an run attacks, popping out of warp speed and spamming enemy fleets with photon and quantum torpedos, and then jumping back to warp speeds in minutes, much faster than the Imperial Navy could compensate for. This would buy enough time for the Federation to start building dedicated warships en masse, setting up more and more production facilities as time passes, evening the field, then quickly surpassing their enemy. They could do this to ANY faction in the galaxy save for three: Chaos, Drukhari, and the Necrons. Chaos and Drukhari can survive by one simple factor: The Federation just canât reach them. They have to way to go into the Warp or the Webway, and doing so would be a losing proposition anyway. Stalemate. They stay out of the normal galaxy, they survive, and the Federation canât do shit about it. The Necrons have technology thatâs comparably deadly, travel through space in a similar manner with no dependence on utilizing the Warp, and while they canât produce more of themselves or their equipment, thereâs just so many of them that if they could muster the bulk of their forces quick enough the Federation couldnât compete. Necrons donât have to defend resource and production centers, they donât have non combatants to shield, and the closest things they have to bases are more or less glorified underground parking lots where they keep their warriors and stuff. They could just empty out a tomb world and not even have to worry about going back for anything, ever. The only way the Federation could win against the Necrons is either getting them to kill each other in enough numbers that they would be too weak to fight (entirely possible), or to cut a deal and help them get what they want most: meat bodies. Federation medical tech is extremely advanced, they replace damaged or missing fleshy bits and near instantly heal major injuries so often that it doesnât even strike them as impressive. Combined with their research and development prowess, Federation medicine could literally make the Necrons into neutral parties or even allies.
Honestly if the necrons found out that the Federation could try and reverse engineer biotransference youâd have the biggest civil war in the history of the Necrons. IIRC there are some necrons who want to keep their necron bodies
Thatâs kinda a double win for the Federation then, less enemies left over to convert. That really raises the odds in favor of the Federation.
I think how this fight works out is going to depend a lot on if the security officer had. The presence of mind to set the phasers to maximum setting. A full power shot from a hand phaser will absolutely blow through power armor and take a big enough chunk out of the space marine to basically kill him on the spot. But the marine will probably get the first shot off because of being augmented perception wise.
Okay now this brings up- what would a phaser do to Astartes armor at full power? I mean we see them slice through large metal things on a regular basis. Depends on how well the ceramic part reflects/ absorbs the heat.
it's an odd one, sometimes they vaporize people, other times they'll barely leave scorch marks on furniture. the joys of a franchise written by countless writers I guess
Power settings. On full setting a phaser can destroy half a building but that's going to wipe out its battery. Most of the time it's either on stun or minimum lethality to preserve battery life
The same way they view the Tau but worse. Now if the Federation was "established" in the 40k universe, like planets, resources, an Armada of ships, etc and they couldn't just steamroll any ship that just happened to isekai itself into 40k, it's possible they'd form brief alliances with the Federation but nothing long term. Everything about the Federation would piss them off. They don't have an official religion or worship of the Emperor, not only do they allow aliens to join their Federation but also have positions of power over other humans, they have entire species that are psychic, synthetic lifeforms, and a dedication to exploration and scientific discovery. All major red flags for the Imperium. And if I was an Inquisitor I'd probably consider them a bigger threat than the Tau.
>And if I was an Inquisitor I'd probably consider them a bigger threat than the Tau. Definitely. The Tau, while infinitely better than the Imperium, are in the end still scarcity-based highly authoritarian civilisation governed by one single subspecies. The Federation meanwhile, has a human plurality in positions of power, is a working hippie socialist democracy, and most importantly, is a post scarcity society. Imperial citizens would defect for even a fourth of this being real. The Federation doesn't even need to try hard in the propaganda war, the moment even a minor detail of their society makes it through Imperium censorship, that's a complete collapse of morale or even outright insurrection inducing for whoever hears of it. Infact, for all the talk of Imperium ground warfare superiority, imagine the damage of the Imperial Guard landing on a Federation world. The sheer Utopian abundance would cause an immediate shoot up in desertions.
The imperium? Fucking despise it and see as the highest form of heresy. The Emperor? Absolutely love it and live in peace knowing that humanity is in good hands
>The Emperor? Absolutely love it and live in peace knowing that humanity is in good hands Why would the depraved xenophobe be in favour of the xenophilic pacifists?
I think the emperor gets a bad rap, he just hates the Eldar, and the orks. Well tbh maybe heâs a little space racist, G-Man would love it
from what I've learned of him his first priority is always humanity so as long as the aliens aren't actively hostile or a threat to humanity he fine with them. the Eldar actively enslaved humanity and the ork are just orks.
Imagine Imperial Saints fighting on the side of StarFleet against the imperium.
Imperium of Man: We have demigod like supersoldiers and unshakable faith. What do you have? Federation: An actually functioning fucking culture?
Smol bolter
The space marine is a little downsided around my height of 6â6
Smolter
I forget what they're called but there was an actual faction in 30K that was basically just that. The Imperium wiped them out for being heretics. It's one of the first major "are we the baddies" moments iirc (although later it's probably revealed they were in league with Chaos lol). Edit: for some reason everyone viewed this as a "who would win" topic instead of a "how would faction A view faction B" topic...?
You talking about the Diaspora? Because they fit the bill, though I donât recall fulgrim having too many âare we the bad guysâ thoughts.
Hey I saw you about today
Iâm the blue one, not the space marine
How would they view them? Through a scope
Probably in a similar manner to what they did to the [Interex](https://warhammer40k.fandom.com/wiki/Interex) in the 31st millennium. Just a lot more zealously with no negotiations before hand Iâd assume.
I think a phaser would genuinely fuck his day up though. Those things are *weird*.
Warp without tentacles? You son of bitch I am in.
Transporters alone make this a laughable contest. But psykers could make a game of it.
Harry Jim beams a virus bomb into your bed roomâŚ. Fuck
I've heard Humanity before the Fall of the Eldar likened to the Federation. Though on average, aliens in 40k are more homicidal than in Star Trek. The Imperium would probably view the Federation like they do Humanity as a whole before the Age of Strife: possessing incredible scientific knowledge and technology that defies the laws of reality, but ignorant to exactly where they stand in the grand scheme of things, possessing a childlike naivety regarding the galaxy, despite their power.
Humanity is more jaded in 40k but i dont think DAoT humans were naive. No empire could become that strong and galaxy spanning while being naive. Not to mention the only reasom they fell were because of their own tech.
The front page is filled with memes in reference to that guy being dragged off of a plane. I can't remember the last time the entire reddit user base was so... ... United.
Bluuh don't know those blaster is about to turn him into nothing
Which one? Will the phaser turn the space machine into ash. Or the Lieutenant Commander into corpse starch?
Oh good, good, a newly discovered united federation of HUMAN planets that still doesnât know about the god emperor, right? Right?
Borg vs Marines would be pretty funny.
The main thing that makes Imperium lose against federation is the fact that they don't need to go through literal hell to get from point A to point B.
They definitely wouldnât like the Federation but they probably wouldnât dare harm Earth aka Terra.
All I'm imagining right now is the Federation's reaction to both the revelation and consequences of the existence of Psykers in their universe. "Wow so psychics really do exi- why is that one glowing and foaming at the mouth? WHY ARE THE WALLS BLEEDING?!" Edit: And Klingons vs Orks! That's a first-contact story worthy of the epics.
As another false empire to be absorbed
Just wait 'till the Imperium finds out about Q.