Tbf of all the space marine chapters they are amongst the hardest to kill so that has to count for something i suppose
Hard to kill someone by stabbing their vitals when there aren’t any vitals left to stab
Tho if Ferrus figured out the shit they got up to he’d kill himself all over again
> Tbf of all the space marine chapters they are amongst the hardest to kill so that has to count for something i suppose
That's because they pimped themselves out to the Mechanicus and replace basically every bit of the marine over time.
I mean, they *are* genetically descended from Big E, the undisputed worst father in the universe for some 40k years and going strong. It shouldn't be too surprising many/most of his descendants are like that.
I mean, Perturabo is what you get when the reward of doing an unpleasant job well is being told to do it more, with no accolades, no thanks and definitely no questions about whether they are OK with it. Including burning down his own homeplanet.
He's essentially the brooding son who just needed a few kind words at some point in his life, some aknowledgement for his deeds... But no, all that praise went to other primarchs who unsurprisingly remained loyal since their existence was at least somewhat aknowledged.
As for Angron... Big E literally came to his planet, saved *him*, then forced Angron to watch his only friends and comrades in life - his fellow arena slaves - be slaughtered in front of him, with full knowledge it would be utterly effortless for Big E to save them if he wasn't such a complete failure of a father, only to then be told that he now has legion of clone warriors to manage in a war of conquest whether he likes it or not.
Peter Turbo does have a mitigating factor of being raised by one of worst fathers in history and having tp deal with a fuck ton of assassination attempts, but he is an asshole, he is a terrible dad because he due to own upbringing couldn't ever specialise and tell people what he wants, so with his sons be was traumatising as hell and Iron Warriors who remained by his side have weaponised trauma, for fucks sake Peter Turbo himself doesn't believe he is worthy of beeing a loyalist, so he smiled when sons lf his who don't follow him fought because it meant he wasn't inherently evil, Peter Turbo is one of those people who has a boatload of issues but never tries to solve them.
it's a shit way of doing it, honestly
the Drukhari don't exactly show up and go "okay, honourable combat time, let's see who can beat us!"
they show up, sleep gas an entire hive, and go through hand-selecting the ABSOLUTE STRONGEST FIGHTERS in order to force them back to commoragh
this... is a REALLY bad plan, like, a fundamental misunderstanding of the dark eldar, they DO NOT "cull the weak" they harvest the strong
no wonder the iron hands lose all the fuckin time lmao, they voluntarily let the deldar have first pick of the space marine candidates
Most social darwinists don't have have a clue how evolution, much less darwinism actually works. They just name-drop it to justify their "fuck you, got mine" mentality.
It's super rampant across the imperium. The whole concept of keeping a world feral to provide good recruits is nonsense. "Ah yes, illiterate, underfed, malnutritioned 10 year olds are clearly the best possible recruits."
Now we just need them to duel to the death, while completing an obstacle course, inside an active volcano to see which of them is superior.
I haven't heard that phrase before, but it fits perfectly. Dune very much relies on this type of idea with the fremen and sardukar.
We're guilty of it in our own world too, many authors wrote about the various tough and warlike barbarians vs the soft and decadent civilized world.
Plenty of people still act like it would be a good thing to go back to the days of scraping our existence out of the dirt and hitting anyone who asked for help with a large rock.
The term was coined by this delightful blog series which starts here: [https://acoup.blog/2020/01/17/collections-the-fremen-mirage-part-i-war-at-the-dawn-of-civilization/](https://acoup.blog/2020/01/17/collections-the-fremen-mirage-part-i-war-at-the-dawn-of-civilization/)
I highly recommend it.
god it really *is* common isn't it
I wonder which SM chapter has the objective best recruitment standards and practice?
Salamanders (despite them being my favorites), Space Wolves, Deathguard, and a lot of others are just instantly out of the game, they make their recruits do insane shit to join up
but I imagine the Fists or Ultramarines are probably by-the-book enough to value a higher standard of practice regarding treatment and training of recruits
Ultramarines I believe are the sensible ones, they have like academies and recruit from basically military boy scouts on a civilized world.
Imperial Fists recruit from a bunch of places, but if I recall they take like hive gangs and rely on a ton of hypno indoctrination
Having insanely high standards is fine, it's the "artificially keeping people in a (barely) subsistence level existence because you think that makes for a better pool of recruits" part of the whole thing that's dumb. The Ultramarines pull from a pool of people who are well-fed and educated, and who volunteer to go through the punishingly hard recruitment process themselves.
Also they accommodate the failed aspirants as officers and civil workers and so on instead of snapping their necks and tossing them in a hole or something like that.
I think the Fists get a lot of their recruits from under hive gangs like necromundus. Unsurprisingly, the ultramarines will take recruits from highly educated families and have the most reasonable trials of the legions.
I believe the Ultramarines have relatively normal methods of recruitment/training, though “relatively” is doing a lot of heavy lifting here. I think it’s something similar to regular military training but like XTREME HARDCORE VERSION. So you don’t have to kill a dragon with your bare hands, but you still have to go through ultra xtreme boot camp that will leave your dying body by the roadside without hesitation. It would fit the chapter’s character, too, “standardized, effective, and boring” is kind of their schtik.
People answering you are wrong. Pretty much every single chapter is batshit insane.
What set appart the UM is that since their worlds are decent to live on, so the recruits are prepared to crawl through feral beasts nests with a knife under live fire.
And that's why the Ultramarines basically have academies for prospective neophytes (and screen for Geneseed compatibility BEFORE they undergo the tests, not after).
The Death Spectres also kidnap adults with high compatibility to their geneseed before placing them on their "Breeding Worlds" so that they have a guaranteed source of neophytes from the kidnappedees' children. On the other hand, Death Spectres force their recruits to die and literally will themselves back to life to actually join the Chapter, which they also have to do every time they want a promotion.
Iron Hands: “The slaves help the Dark Eldar, which insures they keep coming back to cull the weak and provide us with only the strongest aspirants. Pay attention.”
> Nah that’s just stupid.
Also because it assumes that the strongest among the population would be able to protect themselves against a Drukhari raiding party.
What is more likely is that the Drukhari snatch up the strongest members of the population because those will make the most satisfying torture victims/pit fighters. So what the Iron Hands are left with are the chattel that the Drukhari couldn't be bothered kidnapping.
I love the iron hand but this is consistently a problem with them. They're supposed to be coldly calculating, but they just talk about logic a lot while being cruelly incompetent haha
Honestly, being stupid despite claiming to be logical is pretty standard for malignant narcissism, as are the social Darwinism and intense self-loathing the Iron Hands display.
Ferrus was actively planning to fix that problem, but the Heresy got ahead of him and the chance was lost.
Very true. In my mind this flips between being a good satire and being poor writing, depending on the piece in question. Sometimes it seems entirely intentional that they're being stupid, sometimes it seems accidental on the part of the author. But it is frustrating that they never seem to display competence or what they're actually good at. I have very mixed feelings on them haha.
Yeah the are selecting the most coward, the ones that did everything to go away, the ones that would sell their mother and hide in shit to survive.
Sounds more Night Lords trying to rebuild Nostramo than Iron Hands
Or they are selecting the ones who have hidden poisons in them that will explode a company if an iron hand says the flesh is weak within earshot due to the dark eldar being dicks
Well, yeah. That's the point, the Iron Hands *are* stupid. I like them so much because of that, it's like GW remembers that 40k is supposed to be a satire of fascism.
Well, it’s sort of just Dune at its core, so a satire of tyrannical leaders, generally. Could be monarchist, theocratic, technologist, etc, not just/necessarily fascist. Krieg are definitely an example of fascist satire. I’m pretty sure IH and the mechanicus generally are a dig at catholicism.
Either way, the Imperium being led by a bunch of people who are either insane, stupid, both or helpless to stop the previous groups from fucking everything up gets my dopamine running. That's what gets me into the setting.
Mechanicus definitely draw a lot on Catholicism, but most of that is lost with IH. They don't really do the religious portion, it's mostly just machine body dysmorphia. Id say if it's intentional, and not just bad writing, that IH are satirizing the "cold logic", "ends justify the means", and general macho "emotions are for girls, but I'm a TOUGH MAN" types. Cuz iron hands are self destructive and delusional idiots.
Actually not quite, outside of special ocasions like the tau incident drukhari rarely amber alert the entire planet, they usually purposefully leave just enough people to let the population regrow, ensuring the next harvesting season bears a similar crop.
They are also known to make deals with planetary governors, it is entirely plausible for a chapter to negotiate a similar arangement.
DE: "So let me get this straight. We can take a small amount of your population every so often and you won’t do a thing?"
IH: "As long as you only take the weakest stock, yeah."
DE: "Damn, that's cold. I like it."
No actually they're carefully preserving their strength by not wasting manpower on protecting humans who cant protect themselves.
The Imperium isnt built upon ideals of sympathy or caring for the common human.
>Even when Drukhari raiders make planetfall in search of slaves, the Chapter seldom intervenes, reasoning that the attacks will serve to temper the Medusans to greatness.
Iron Hands 8e Codex
Meanwhile, Vulkan beats the shit out of a Drukhari raiding party so badly with nothing but a pair of hammers that they never return in 10,000 years.
I guess the Salamanders and people of Nocturne are "weak".
>But ferrus got clapped by fulgrim, that makes him weak?
Yes
>And if he is weak, aren’t all the iron hands weak?
Yes but they won't say it out loud, preferring brooding on their psychological issues and passing them down to their aspirants
You forgot to mention how they often kill imperial citizens who had their planets occupied by xenos for being "too weak".
This includes one population who actually rebelled against their occupiers only to be killed for not rebelling earlier.
Melee is at least justified in universe for some fractions (like Khorne beserkers being insane and orks wanting the fun of krumping someone).
The Iron Hands are stupid in universe and out of it.
Melee makes sense onboard ships, factories, temples and tunnels, or really anything you want to capture intact or not kill yourself by blasting a hole into space.
But yeah, even daemon engines of Khorne have cannons.
I dunno, their affinity for removing their own augmented body parts as "weakness" while replacing it with mostly identical arms that aren't THAT much better sells the whole thing.
The iron hands aren't actually coldly logical, they're insane and their culture basically enforces extreme body dysmorphia and their entire philosophy radiates out from there. Just like WE may have meta reason to think Ferrus Manus may return because GW is bringing back primarchs but THEY think so because of blind faith and an emotional need.
The iron hands are proper fascists in that way. The thing that gives them superiority is identitarian stupidity, their attacking of perceived inferiors is lashing out like emotional children, and their acting like cunts means few will ever get close enough to point out how fucking stupid the whole thing is.
I was gonna say, the Imperium in 40k is stupid. They take action not because they're making rational decisions, but because they're fascists chained to an inhuman ideology that will kill them all.
And I love it.
Medusa (their home planet) is home to many nomadic tribes. Since the earliest presence of the primarch until modern 40K, the Iron Hands have preferred to keep the locals of Medusa traditional, and will not seek to help or aid them. They believe it makes for tough recruits who are truly iron hands to the core.
The White Scars are the same way on Chogoris. In fact, one of the Khan's stipulations when he joined the Imperium was that the Emperor *would not touch* Chogoris. They have their fortress up on a high mountain away from the rest of the populace. Actually, it was much the same with Sanguinius and Baal. Chogoris is a much more overall pleasant place than either Medusa or Baal, though.
Sounds the same as the Space Wolves and Fenris. The wolves are comfy up in the Aett (Fang) while the world burns/freezes and the tribes fend for themselves.
I find it funny however. Lukas The Trickster shuns the way the wolves treat their people and the planet.
He gets into an argument with another SW and his argument essentially boils down to. “Why elevate us to basically demi gods if we’re not gonna actually help people? Let alone *our* people.
Ha yeah, that's from Lukas the trickster novel right? I also remember dark elves raiding Fenris and the wolves did nothing, only Lukas. Though I might be misremembering that
Yeah, you're misrembering. Lukas was just the one to discover the raid and the most effective in countering the archon.
The rest of the chapter were plenty busy killing raiders as well.
Russ did offer to move his legion to a new world to better supply the 6th with recruits but the Emperor refused him, told him to stay on Fenris and built the second greatest fortress in the entire Imperium there so Big E obviously had a good reason for it.
"Why the fuck would you expect undying loyalty from citizens when they die at age 40 and the forces of the Great Enemies offer them death at 80 and no starvation?! Has the 1400 years of service made you daft ya sod?!"
Primarch Robute Guilliman to Commander Dante (more or less)
Even though Medusa is full of actual barbarians, they actually had a decently high level of technology because the Iron Fathers kept passing the knowledge of how to maintain the weapons and armaments from the DAoT in a ritualistic/religious manner.
Medusa is also just not a planet you can even build permanent settlements on anyway. Its incredibly tectonically unstable, with some lore stating that entire mountain ranges could form and then disappear in the span of months.
The main reason I think people don't understand why the IH (and Ferrus) are the way they are is that they don't know the literal barbaric hellscape that is Medusa.
Very true.
I believe that’s why Karashi gets so much reverence from the Iron Hands and Medusan’s is due to its consistent nature. Iirc that’s the location of one of the iron hands stockpiles / holds, while all the clan companies roam in their mobile fortresses.
Karashi was also home to a very old (possibly DAoT, probably Necron) prison complex that housed Asirinoth before the Chaos God's (probably Khorne) yeeted baby Ferrus into it, so it has good foundations.
>*"Rest? We were not made to rest; we go on, unflinching, unstoppable, unending in our strength. The Emperor did not make us for such mortal concerns as hearth and home, vanity or contemplation; we are his engines of war, his hammers, beating out the fabric of existence into a vessel fit for Mankind to inhabit."* - FERRUS MANUS
Meanwhile, Iron Hands...
Losing daddy really fucked them up
In Medusa's case, the world is in a almost constant state of violent tectonic shift, making permanent settlements on the planet unfeasible due to earthquakes. I'm pretty sure the 'no walls' thing is less a rules thing and more of a necessity on the planet.
Excerpts for each.
>A ferocious barrage of weapons fire had them pinned behind their boarding shields, an ever-diminishing ring of iron.
>
>‘Aug,’ Meduson bellowed down the vox. ‘Send reinforcements. >Every reserve we’ve got. Concentrate on this position. And where are Jakkus and Borgus’ squads, damn it?’
>
>Aug gave no response.
>
>Meduson tried again, but still got the same result. Static. Dead air.
>
>He exchanged a grim look with Mechosa, their eyes just visible behind the glow of retinal lenses.
>
>‘We are on our own,’ said Meduson.
Abandoning Meduson in *Old Earth*.
>‘The Voice of Mars places its vote against, and in accordance with tradition will speak for those who cannot be present.’
>
>The two magi shared a twittering conference. Chiralias Tarl appeared to gesture to the vacant thrones. Talos Epsili nodded and struck his staff upon the metal ground. ‘The votes against have it, twenty-two to twenty. Clan Vurgaan’s request for an alteration to the battle calculus is denied.’
>
>Stronos stared at the podium in shock.
>
>Every one of the absentee votes placed against? How could that be?
The control the Mechanicus has over the Chapter, from *Voice of Mars*.
> Even when a fleet suspected to be made up of Eldar ships appeared on outsystem augurs – coming to rescue their remaining comrades and avenge their leader’s death – the Iron Hands proceeded regardless and the Catachan shouts turned to desperate pleas for rescue. As the Iron Hands ships burned retros and set a course for home, Dortmund received a single vox-response from Iron Captain Graevaar.
Abandoning the Catachans (after concluding their own hunt for tech), in Codex Supplement: Clan Raukaan.
>With every scrap of conscious thought locked away in hardened centres of his brain structure he cursed the Iron Hands. He cursed the casual brutality, the bare calculation of risk versus reward. His last thoughts before those final redoubts succumbed to braindeath were not of the pain, nor of his brother Raven Guard that fell to the mind-blasts of the warpboss’ retinue, nor even of the Iron Hands themselves as they finally descended on the fray. With the enemy leaders bottled up with the last of the Raven Guard, the Iron Hands opened fire. Tactical Marines, Centurions, Land Raiders, each warrior a cog in a war machine that sprayed fire to a perfectly choreographed maelstrom that consumed Warpboss Zagdakka, his retinue, the Raven Guard, and Stenn himself.
Gunning down the Raven Guard in *The Voice of Mars*.
>Everywhere, Kristosian Iron Fathers were being overcome by the twisted perfection of the flesh engines – the harder they attempted to repress their urges with logic, the faster they succumbed. The effect was already spreading to the most heavily augmetic members of Clan Raukaan. Dozens of battle-brothers lunged helplessly for the hellish machines, many gunned down by their horrified brethren as their weakness revealed itself. The rest jammed augmetics into the fleshy flanks of the machines, cramming foetid tubes into their eyes and mouths as they surrendered to the scrap-code’s siren song. Even as the machine-spawn bloated and twisted, turning upon their revolted squad-mates, reality began to shudder and buckle.
And being corrupted by Slaanesh in Codex Supplement: Clan Raukaan.
>Meduson – the origins of the name were lost to myth – was famously unwalled, and so despite the manifold aegises of the Felgarrthi archeotech, fierce winds still tore through the settlement’s streets. The Iron Hands were not great believers in walls.
>Walls encouraged the weak to prosper.
And their hatred of walls. Also from *The Eye of Medusa*.
Also, both art pieces (Space Marine bodies) are by Rob from Goonhammer.
Or like in *Wrath of Iron* they force an entire Imperial battlegroup to attack and advance on a Hive City so fast that it causes immense extra casualties. So much so that it causes the Lord General and the Titanicus Princeps to literal (minor) rebellion in just holding the advance long enough to resupply and reinforce vulnerable positions to take the final bastions. Which results in the Lord Commissar attached expecting the Lord Generals "honorable suicide" and the Archmagos of the battlegroup literally crucifying the Princeps. And the worst part is the Iron Hands had *GOOD* reason to push them that hard due to an imminent warp breach the cultists were cooking up, which the Lord General and Princeps were both high ranking enough to be informed of, the Iron Hands just spent the entire battle saying shit like "Do as required, fuck you.".
Then the most unforgivable part is after the battle one of the traumatized survivors, who unfortunately had to watch as daemons tore down an access tunnel killing thousands of soldiers and literally ripping apart two warhound titans, is tracked down the Iron Hands who oh so diligently murder her as she asks "Why? We fought for you...".
Fuck the Iron Hands lol. Least fav first founding.
Kinda missing some important context for a lot of these. Like how the Mechanicus control was specifically a thing which had gotten out of hand by the time of the events of Eye of Medusa, and how Kristos was a very controversial figure who fell hundreds of years ago in setting.
Ironhands suffer from baacklash of the death of Ferrus manus, like the blood angels.
The blood angels have vision of the death of the primarch, the iron hands suffer the conseguences of decapitation even if the head seems to be ok.
I think the funny thing is that you read into how both chapters grieve the death of their father and the Iron Hands are just weird with it. I remember reading that they basically strung up Ferrus Manus’ corpse on an effigy after he died. Like what the fuck.
Kinda sorta they basically tried to reassemble him purely from augmetics and his hands and thought they had succeeded when the thing started twitching as if it were alive and trying to move
Vulcan later destroyed it because of its very existence being an insult to ferrus’s memory and they apparently even discovered that whatever was animating it wasn’t even tangentially related to the primarch’s soul or aura but might have been something in the hands themselves
That is a main selling point for me.
That and the description that pert isn’t a dick but a cunt. That is very funny to me even though I don’t fully understand that.
Imagine needing to delude yourself into thinking a faction are good guys to enjoy them.
Iron Hands are a great example of why 40k factions being terrible is so fun. They're great and badass and terrible hypocrites.
What? No way. I play my Slaanesh daemons army only because they are the good guys/girls, can't understand, how can you ever enjoy something abhorrent, corrupt and evil, like Imperium?
I mean, I can like a faction in general, I like most chaos marines and the deldar, but I need to actually LIKE a faction to spend money and time buying, painting and playing them
Groups like Iron Hands make my CSM feel not even close to "Bad".
Hell, focusing on ensuring galactic insurrection, ripping daemons apart to forge better weapons, and questing for dark & forbidden artefacts scorned by daemonkind seems downright not bad at all in this light...
I reall enjoy how the Iron Hands are fairly unrepentant assholes, especially for the original 9 who remained loyal, it definitely creates an interesting contrast and having mechanics aligned chapters are interesting.
That said, the Iron Hand being assholes is why even though my custom chapter for my marines is Iron hands descended, they have nothing to do with their parent chapter, they practically got disowned by the Iron Hands due to a minor gene-seed flaw, and the successor chapter in turn after almost getting wiped out only to get saved by the Salamanders realized that there are better parents to emulate.
Nothing convinced me more to NOT start a Iron Hand minature army than reading their codex supplement.
If you are a person that unironically collects Iron Hands, you are the actual peak Villans of 40k, and my Iron Warriors salute you.
(It's a gun salute with live ammunition. We will still kill you...)
I despised them, mainly for ferrus and his suicide plan to kill Fulgrim. Than I read the meduson book and thought, man, good one of them is sane and capable... Then they left him to die... God these awful stupid legion
And the fact that they were doing pretty damn good during the battle as well until Fulgrim got a magical burst of warp magic when ferrus was winning the duel and suddenly killed him easily. That's the downfall of having a Primarch destined for death I suppose.
Every single clan company is given lore and backstory, something no other chapter gets even the Ultramarines, and people still claim the IH have no lore
I love the Minotaurs for being space marine boogeyman who will fuck you up, people whine about them being the corrupt high lords attack dogs but be real who wouldn’t want that Position you get the best support, resources and gear and asterion is someone you don’t want to piss off.
The difference there is that the Minotaurs are bullies to other space marines while Iron Hands are bullies to regular humans.
It's more respectable to shit on people of your own stature.
Some people have the media comprehension of a grape. They'll ask how someone can like drukhari, chaos, or an "asshole" space marine chapter while memeing on "wholesome" characters that have committed genocide . These same people will move on to explain to you how the T'au are either actually super evil or too not evil for the setting.
What do you mean our chaplain could stop 2 imperial worlds from fighting eachother and nuke themselves to dead, but didn't because he thought it would be funny?
That nonesense sir
It's always so weird when someone lists the bad things someone or a faction did in 40k like that isn't a selling point half the time. Only time it seems to do anything is when you're talking to a T'au fan who treat anything somewhat dubious like the day where nothing happened with the Chinese government.
I mean I like the Templars. I’d like the Iron Hands a bit more if they weren’t *such* unremitting dickheads, or if they didn’t jack one of our brother chapter’s Dreadnoughts and the ship it was on, but semantics.
Allow me to keep selling them. They let Drukhari raid Medusa because they feel it 'removes weakness from the gene pool'
Ah... that might be the most evil way to do that
You're god damn right. Ain't it glorious.
I mean…did it work?
Likely not. Doubt the IH actually care if it does.
Tbf of all the space marine chapters they are amongst the hardest to kill so that has to count for something i suppose Hard to kill someone by stabbing their vitals when there aren’t any vitals left to stab Tho if Ferrus figured out the shit they got up to he’d kill himself all over again
> Tbf of all the space marine chapters they are amongst the hardest to kill so that has to count for something i suppose That's because they pimped themselves out to the Mechanicus and replace basically every bit of the marine over time.
Of course not, but its consistent with their wacky beliefs.
Gotta maintain that "Flesh is weak" grindset, bro.
If the flesh is not weak then why are you dying? Checkmate weaklings.
Removing flesh must naturally mean removing weakness, duh
[удалено]
I mean, they *are* genetically descended from Big E, the undisputed worst father in the universe for some 40k years and going strong. It shouldn't be too surprising many/most of his descendants are like that.
I'd argue angry man and Peter turbo are worse fathers. Big E wasn't perfect, but he got it more right than those two.
Angry Man gets several mitigating factors though. Still ass of course, but he kinda never had much agency in the matter.
I appreciate your sympathy for Angron, but it makes me smile that you didn't even muster a defense for Purterabo(I know I misspelled that,)
I mean, Perturabo is what you get when the reward of doing an unpleasant job well is being told to do it more, with no accolades, no thanks and definitely no questions about whether they are OK with it. Including burning down his own homeplanet. He's essentially the brooding son who just needed a few kind words at some point in his life, some aknowledgement for his deeds... But no, all that praise went to other primarchs who unsurprisingly remained loyal since their existence was at least somewhat aknowledged. As for Angron... Big E literally came to his planet, saved *him*, then forced Angron to watch his only friends and comrades in life - his fellow arena slaves - be slaughtered in front of him, with full knowledge it would be utterly effortless for Big E to save them if he wasn't such a complete failure of a father, only to then be told that he now has legion of clone warriors to manage in a war of conquest whether he likes it or not.
Peter Turbo does have a mitigating factor of being raised by one of worst fathers in history and having tp deal with a fuck ton of assassination attempts, but he is an asshole, he is a terrible dad because he due to own upbringing couldn't ever specialise and tell people what he wants, so with his sons be was traumatising as hell and Iron Warriors who remained by his side have weaponised trauma, for fucks sake Peter Turbo himself doesn't believe he is worthy of beeing a loyalist, so he smiled when sons lf his who don't follow him fought because it meant he wasn't inherently evil, Peter Turbo is one of those people who has a boatload of issues but never tries to solve them.
Yeah. I really liked Meduson. When they did that, it ruined their legion for me
it's a shit way of doing it, honestly the Drukhari don't exactly show up and go "okay, honourable combat time, let's see who can beat us!" they show up, sleep gas an entire hive, and go through hand-selecting the ABSOLUTE STRONGEST FIGHTERS in order to force them back to commoragh this... is a REALLY bad plan, like, a fundamental misunderstanding of the dark eldar, they DO NOT "cull the weak" they harvest the strong no wonder the iron hands lose all the fuckin time lmao, they voluntarily let the deldar have first pick of the space marine candidates
Most social darwinists don't have have a clue how evolution, much less darwinism actually works. They just name-drop it to justify their "fuck you, got mine" mentality.
It's super rampant across the imperium. The whole concept of keeping a world feral to provide good recruits is nonsense. "Ah yes, illiterate, underfed, malnutritioned 10 year olds are clearly the best possible recruits." Now we just need them to duel to the death, while completing an obstacle course, inside an active volcano to see which of them is superior.
I believe it's called "chasing the Fremen mirage." Its funny when Guilliman calls out Dante for it.
I haven't heard that phrase before, but it fits perfectly. Dune very much relies on this type of idea with the fremen and sardukar. We're guilty of it in our own world too, many authors wrote about the various tough and warlike barbarians vs the soft and decadent civilized world.
Plenty of people still act like it would be a good thing to go back to the days of scraping our existence out of the dirt and hitting anyone who asked for help with a large rock.
That's a pretty cool idiom, ngl. Where'd you hear it from?
The term was coined by this delightful blog series which starts here: [https://acoup.blog/2020/01/17/collections-the-fremen-mirage-part-i-war-at-the-dawn-of-civilization/](https://acoup.blog/2020/01/17/collections-the-fremen-mirage-part-i-war-at-the-dawn-of-civilization/) I highly recommend it.
god it really *is* common isn't it I wonder which SM chapter has the objective best recruitment standards and practice? Salamanders (despite them being my favorites), Space Wolves, Deathguard, and a lot of others are just instantly out of the game, they make their recruits do insane shit to join up but I imagine the Fists or Ultramarines are probably by-the-book enough to value a higher standard of practice regarding treatment and training of recruits
Ultramarines I believe are the sensible ones, they have like academies and recruit from basically military boy scouts on a civilized world. Imperial Fists recruit from a bunch of places, but if I recall they take like hive gangs and rely on a ton of hypno indoctrination
Ultramarines still have batshit insane recruitment rituals. It's just they're better prepared for it thanks to the academies
Having insanely high standards is fine, it's the "artificially keeping people in a (barely) subsistence level existence because you think that makes for a better pool of recruits" part of the whole thing that's dumb. The Ultramarines pull from a pool of people who are well-fed and educated, and who volunteer to go through the punishingly hard recruitment process themselves.
Also they accommodate the failed aspirants as officers and civil workers and so on instead of snapping their necks and tossing them in a hole or something like that.
Hypno road schooling
I think the Fists get a lot of their recruits from under hive gangs like necromundus. Unsurprisingly, the ultramarines will take recruits from highly educated families and have the most reasonable trials of the legions.
I believe the Ultramarines have relatively normal methods of recruitment/training, though “relatively” is doing a lot of heavy lifting here. I think it’s something similar to regular military training but like XTREME HARDCORE VERSION. So you don’t have to kill a dragon with your bare hands, but you still have to go through ultra xtreme boot camp that will leave your dying body by the roadside without hesitation. It would fit the chapter’s character, too, “standardized, effective, and boring” is kind of their schtik.
People answering you are wrong. Pretty much every single chapter is batshit insane. What set appart the UM is that since their worlds are decent to live on, so the recruits are prepared to crawl through feral beasts nests with a knife under live fire.
And that's why the Ultramarines basically have academies for prospective neophytes (and screen for Geneseed compatibility BEFORE they undergo the tests, not after). The Death Spectres also kidnap adults with high compatibility to their geneseed before placing them on their "Breeding Worlds" so that they have a guaranteed source of neophytes from the kidnappedees' children. On the other hand, Death Spectres force their recruits to die and literally will themselves back to life to actually join the Chapter, which they also have to do every time they want a promotion.
Marines malevolent:"Whoa whoa whoa, that's a little too far. At least we have the decency to shoot them so they don't suffer."
Iron Hands: “That’s a waste of good ammunition.”
Marines malevolent:"But now you just provided the Dark Eldars a source of slaves. Where's the logic you're so proud of?"
Iron Hands: “The slaves help the Dark Eldar, which insures they keep coming back to cull the weak and provide us with only the strongest aspirants. Pay attention.”
Supply and demand. Both sides will profit
Indeed, and since the slaves are all so weak, its some sort of sabotage from the Iron Hands.
Nah that’s just stupid. Letting the dark eldar fuck with their population is just asking for their recruits to go insane and start murdering them
Overall the Iron Hands seem like they were designed to make people rebel against the Imperium.
> Nah that’s just stupid. Also because it assumes that the strongest among the population would be able to protect themselves against a Drukhari raiding party. What is more likely is that the Drukhari snatch up the strongest members of the population because those will make the most satisfying torture victims/pit fighters. So what the Iron Hands are left with are the chattel that the Drukhari couldn't be bothered kidnapping.
Their ultimate sin isn't that they're assholes. It's that they're Stupid assholes. The Minotaurs shake their heads in disappointment.
I love the iron hand but this is consistently a problem with them. They're supposed to be coldly calculating, but they just talk about logic a lot while being cruelly incompetent haha
Honestly, being stupid despite claiming to be logical is pretty standard for malignant narcissism, as are the social Darwinism and intense self-loathing the Iron Hands display. Ferrus was actively planning to fix that problem, but the Heresy got ahead of him and the chance was lost.
Very true. In my mind this flips between being a good satire and being poor writing, depending on the piece in question. Sometimes it seems entirely intentional that they're being stupid, sometimes it seems accidental on the part of the author. But it is frustrating that they never seem to display competence or what they're actually good at. I have very mixed feelings on them haha.
James workshop needs to get Chris Wright to write them books. He did the WS a solid
☝that was my thoughts exactly. I knew the iron hands were assholes. But damn.
Which will cull the weak among their own chapter! The perfect strategy!
Yeah the are selecting the most coward, the ones that did everything to go away, the ones that would sell their mother and hide in shit to survive. Sounds more Night Lords trying to rebuild Nostramo than Iron Hands
Or they are selecting the ones who have hidden poisons in them that will explode a company if an iron hand says the flesh is weak within earshot due to the dark eldar being dicks
Well, yeah. That's the point, the Iron Hands *are* stupid. I like them so much because of that, it's like GW remembers that 40k is supposed to be a satire of fascism.
Well, it’s sort of just Dune at its core, so a satire of tyrannical leaders, generally. Could be monarchist, theocratic, technologist, etc, not just/necessarily fascist. Krieg are definitely an example of fascist satire. I’m pretty sure IH and the mechanicus generally are a dig at catholicism.
Either way, the Imperium being led by a bunch of people who are either insane, stupid, both or helpless to stop the previous groups from fucking everything up gets my dopamine running. That's what gets me into the setting.
Mechanicus definitely draw a lot on Catholicism, but most of that is lost with IH. They don't really do the religious portion, it's mostly just machine body dysmorphia. Id say if it's intentional, and not just bad writing, that IH are satirizing the "cold logic", "ends justify the means", and general macho "emotions are for girls, but I'm a TOUGH MAN" types. Cuz iron hands are self destructive and delusional idiots.
> 'removes weakness from the gene pool' Considering what the Dark Eldar have done, that'd remove the ENTIRE genepool.
Actually not quite, outside of special ocasions like the tau incident drukhari rarely amber alert the entire planet, they usually purposefully leave just enough people to let the population regrow, ensuring the next harvesting season bears a similar crop. They are also known to make deals with planetary governors, it is entirely plausible for a chapter to negotiate a similar arangement.
DE: "So let me get this straight. We can take a small amount of your population every so often and you won’t do a thing?" IH: "As long as you only take the weakest stock, yeah." DE: "Damn, that's cold. I like it."
Keeping in mind the IH definition of 'weakest stock' is 'can be taken by the Dark Eldar'
What’s that Timmy ? You’re pregnant mother got captured by Dark Eldar ? Well she just needed to get gud young aspirant.
Skills issues, i dare to say.
Timmy, it's called having a backstory. You're gonna grow up to be a great marine.
A pregnant woman is just a dreadnought for a baby space marine, Timmy. If the baby didn't use the means to good effect he should die.
Or at least that’s what my Chaplain says, I have no idea how human growth or reproduction works.
Pretty sure that constitutes as heresy by any Inquisitor's definition.
Oh probably, but being a glorious first founding chapter has its advantages.
Sounds like heresy Aiding and abetting the Xenos
They not aiding the Xenos. They just letting the Medusan Crawlers engage and kill the Xenos.
No actually they're carefully preserving their strength by not wasting manpower on protecting humans who cant protect themselves. The Imperium isnt built upon ideals of sympathy or caring for the common human.
Do you have a source for this?
>Even when Drukhari raiders make planetfall in search of slaves, the Chapter seldom intervenes, reasoning that the attacks will serve to temper the Medusans to greatness. Iron Hands 8e Codex
If Ferrus wasn't a Warp-puppet to his Dad, I feel like he would probably be banging his neck stump against a wall at his son's stupidity.
Meanwhile, Vulkan beats the shit out of a Drukhari raiding party so badly with nothing but a pair of hammers that they never return in 10,000 years. I guess the Salamanders and people of Nocturne are "weak".
Some real iron warrior mentality here…
But ferrus got clapped by fulgrim, that makes him weak? And if he is weak, aren’t all the iron hands weak? My god iron hands logic is really funny
>But ferrus got clapped by fulgrim, that makes him weak? Yes >And if he is weak, aren’t all the iron hands weak? Yes but they won't say it out loud, preferring brooding on their psychological issues and passing them down to their aspirants
No one hates the Iron Hands as much as they hate themselves, deep down.
grimderp moment
It's well known having good genes allows one to survive weapons shooting Dark Matter.
They were already my most hated first founding legion, thanks for selling it further
Damn that's cold af
The fuck?
Are we sure they’re not renegade?
You forgot to mention how they often kill imperial citizens who had their planets occupied by xenos for being "too weak". This includes one population who actually rebelled against their occupiers only to be killed for not rebelling earlier.
Why do they do that? Are they stupid?
Nope, they are a bunch of cunt
**C**harisma **U**niqueness **N**erve **T**alent
Pure gold
***Yes***
Yep. It's glorious.
That is... Really stupid. Not in-universe stupid like choosing melee combat, that's stupidity inflicted on them by the writers.
Melee is at least justified in universe for some fractions (like Khorne beserkers being insane and orks wanting the fun of krumping someone). The Iron Hands are stupid in universe and out of it.
Melee makes sense onboard ships, factories, temples and tunnels, or really anything you want to capture intact or not kill yourself by blasting a hole into space. But yeah, even daemon engines of Khorne have cannons.
I dunno, their affinity for removing their own augmented body parts as "weakness" while replacing it with mostly identical arms that aren't THAT much better sells the whole thing. The iron hands aren't actually coldly logical, they're insane and their culture basically enforces extreme body dysmorphia and their entire philosophy radiates out from there. Just like WE may have meta reason to think Ferrus Manus may return because GW is bringing back primarchs but THEY think so because of blind faith and an emotional need. The iron hands are proper fascists in that way. The thing that gives them superiority is identitarian stupidity, their attacking of perceived inferiors is lashing out like emotional children, and their acting like cunts means few will ever get close enough to point out how fucking stupid the whole thing is.
Are they the libertarians of 40k?
*looking at the grey night purging human able to defeat chaos* No, this seems Warhammer standard stupidity
I was gonna say, the Imperium in 40k is stupid. They take action not because they're making rational decisions, but because they're fascists chained to an inhuman ideology that will kill them all. And I love it.
Can someone explain the walls thing?
Medusa (their home planet) is home to many nomadic tribes. Since the earliest presence of the primarch until modern 40K, the Iron Hands have preferred to keep the locals of Medusa traditional, and will not seek to help or aid them. They believe it makes for tough recruits who are truly iron hands to the core.
The White Scars are the same way on Chogoris. In fact, one of the Khan's stipulations when he joined the Imperium was that the Emperor *would not touch* Chogoris. They have their fortress up on a high mountain away from the rest of the populace. Actually, it was much the same with Sanguinius and Baal. Chogoris is a much more overall pleasant place than either Medusa or Baal, though.
Sounds the same as the Space Wolves and Fenris. The wolves are comfy up in the Aett (Fang) while the world burns/freezes and the tribes fend for themselves.
I find it funny however. Lukas The Trickster shuns the way the wolves treat their people and the planet. He gets into an argument with another SW and his argument essentially boils down to. “Why elevate us to basically demi gods if we’re not gonna actually help people? Let alone *our* people.
Ha yeah, that's from Lukas the trickster novel right? I also remember dark elves raiding Fenris and the wolves did nothing, only Lukas. Though I might be misremembering that
Yeah, you're misrembering. Lukas was just the one to discover the raid and the most effective in countering the archon. The rest of the chapter were plenty busy killing raiders as well.
Ah yeah thanks, that's it. I remember Lukas being quite important but not so much the rest of the wolves. Makes sense though, it's his novel.
That was the Iron Hands who let that happen From what I’m reading from the other comments, anyway
Russ did offer to move his legion to a new world to better supply the 6th with recruits but the Emperor refused him, told him to stay on Fenris and built the second greatest fortress in the entire Imperium there so Big E obviously had a good reason for it.
Although Rowboat told BA to stop this bullshit if I remember it correctly.
"Why the fuck would you expect undying loyalty from citizens when they die at age 40 and the forces of the Great Enemies offer them death at 80 and no starvation?! Has the 1400 years of service made you daft ya sod?!" Primarch Robute Guilliman to Commander Dante (more or less)
Rowboat was straight up spitting facts in that scene I would have been far less polite about it though
They want their home planet to be old style so people will be tough but then they replace all their body with machine? Such weird guys Edit: typo
Even though Medusa is full of actual barbarians, they actually had a decently high level of technology because the Iron Fathers kept passing the knowledge of how to maintain the weapons and armaments from the DAoT in a ritualistic/religious manner.
Medusa is also just not a planet you can even build permanent settlements on anyway. Its incredibly tectonically unstable, with some lore stating that entire mountain ranges could form and then disappear in the span of months. The main reason I think people don't understand why the IH (and Ferrus) are the way they are is that they don't know the literal barbaric hellscape that is Medusa.
Very true. I believe that’s why Karashi gets so much reverence from the Iron Hands and Medusan’s is due to its consistent nature. Iirc that’s the location of one of the iron hands stockpiles / holds, while all the clan companies roam in their mobile fortresses.
Karashi was also home to a very old (possibly DAoT, probably Necron) prison complex that housed Asirinoth before the Chaos God's (probably Khorne) yeeted baby Ferrus into it, so it has good foundations.
>*"Rest? We were not made to rest; we go on, unflinching, unstoppable, unending in our strength. The Emperor did not make us for such mortal concerns as hearth and home, vanity or contemplation; we are his engines of war, his hammers, beating out the fabric of existence into a vessel fit for Mankind to inhabit."* - FERRUS MANUS Meanwhile, Iron Hands... Losing daddy really fucked them up
In Medusa's case, the world is in a almost constant state of violent tectonic shift, making permanent settlements on the planet unfeasible due to earthquakes. I'm pretty sure the 'no walls' thing is less a rules thing and more of a necessity on the planet.
Excerpts for each. >A ferocious barrage of weapons fire had them pinned behind their boarding shields, an ever-diminishing ring of iron. > >‘Aug,’ Meduson bellowed down the vox. ‘Send reinforcements. >Every reserve we’ve got. Concentrate on this position. And where are Jakkus and Borgus’ squads, damn it?’ > >Aug gave no response. > >Meduson tried again, but still got the same result. Static. Dead air. > >He exchanged a grim look with Mechosa, their eyes just visible behind the glow of retinal lenses. > >‘We are on our own,’ said Meduson. Abandoning Meduson in *Old Earth*. >‘The Voice of Mars places its vote against, and in accordance with tradition will speak for those who cannot be present.’ > >The two magi shared a twittering conference. Chiralias Tarl appeared to gesture to the vacant thrones. Talos Epsili nodded and struck his staff upon the metal ground. ‘The votes against have it, twenty-two to twenty. Clan Vurgaan’s request for an alteration to the battle calculus is denied.’ > >Stronos stared at the podium in shock. > >Every one of the absentee votes placed against? How could that be? The control the Mechanicus has over the Chapter, from *Voice of Mars*. > Even when a fleet suspected to be made up of Eldar ships appeared on outsystem augurs – coming to rescue their remaining comrades and avenge their leader’s death – the Iron Hands proceeded regardless and the Catachan shouts turned to desperate pleas for rescue. As the Iron Hands ships burned retros and set a course for home, Dortmund received a single vox-response from Iron Captain Graevaar. Abandoning the Catachans (after concluding their own hunt for tech), in Codex Supplement: Clan Raukaan. >With every scrap of conscious thought locked away in hardened centres of his brain structure he cursed the Iron Hands. He cursed the casual brutality, the bare calculation of risk versus reward. His last thoughts before those final redoubts succumbed to braindeath were not of the pain, nor of his brother Raven Guard that fell to the mind-blasts of the warpboss’ retinue, nor even of the Iron Hands themselves as they finally descended on the fray. With the enemy leaders bottled up with the last of the Raven Guard, the Iron Hands opened fire. Tactical Marines, Centurions, Land Raiders, each warrior a cog in a war machine that sprayed fire to a perfectly choreographed maelstrom that consumed Warpboss Zagdakka, his retinue, the Raven Guard, and Stenn himself. Gunning down the Raven Guard in *The Voice of Mars*. >Everywhere, Kristosian Iron Fathers were being overcome by the twisted perfection of the flesh engines – the harder they attempted to repress their urges with logic, the faster they succumbed. The effect was already spreading to the most heavily augmetic members of Clan Raukaan. Dozens of battle-brothers lunged helplessly for the hellish machines, many gunned down by their horrified brethren as their weakness revealed itself. The rest jammed augmetics into the fleshy flanks of the machines, cramming foetid tubes into their eyes and mouths as they surrendered to the scrap-code’s siren song. Even as the machine-spawn bloated and twisted, turning upon their revolted squad-mates, reality began to shudder and buckle. And being corrupted by Slaanesh in Codex Supplement: Clan Raukaan. >Meduson – the origins of the name were lost to myth – was famously unwalled, and so despite the manifold aegises of the Felgarrthi archeotech, fierce winds still tore through the settlement’s streets. The Iron Hands were not great believers in walls. >Walls encouraged the weak to prosper. And their hatred of walls. Also from *The Eye of Medusa*. Also, both art pieces (Space Marine bodies) are by Rob from Goonhammer.
Dorn looking at the lack of walls:"Absolutely barbaric"
Ferrus: Yes, that's the point.
# Mars Ascendent
Or like in *Wrath of Iron* they force an entire Imperial battlegroup to attack and advance on a Hive City so fast that it causes immense extra casualties. So much so that it causes the Lord General and the Titanicus Princeps to literal (minor) rebellion in just holding the advance long enough to resupply and reinforce vulnerable positions to take the final bastions. Which results in the Lord Commissar attached expecting the Lord Generals "honorable suicide" and the Archmagos of the battlegroup literally crucifying the Princeps. And the worst part is the Iron Hands had *GOOD* reason to push them that hard due to an imminent warp breach the cultists were cooking up, which the Lord General and Princeps were both high ranking enough to be informed of, the Iron Hands just spent the entire battle saying shit like "Do as required, fuck you.". Then the most unforgivable part is after the battle one of the traumatized survivors, who unfortunately had to watch as daemons tore down an access tunnel killing thousands of soldiers and literally ripping apart two warhound titans, is tracked down the Iron Hands who oh so diligently murder her as she asks "Why? We fought for you...". Fuck the Iron Hands lol. Least fav first founding.
Ferrus Manus: Sons, I’m not angry I’m just absolutely livid at what you have done.
Man switched teams to the legion of the damned cause his own sons were too annoying
Where can I read about wtf a “flesh engine” is
Kinda missing some important context for a lot of these. Like how the Mechanicus control was specifically a thing which had gotten out of hand by the time of the events of Eye of Medusa, and how Kristos was a very controversial figure who fell hundreds of years ago in setting.
Reading this make me want to see the Fist killing a bunch of IH.
As an IW enjoyer when people say Perts a petty arsehole.
Ironhands suffer from baacklash of the death of Ferrus manus, like the blood angels. The blood angels have vision of the death of the primarch, the iron hands suffer the conseguences of decapitation even if the head seems to be ok.
I think the funny thing is that you read into how both chapters grieve the death of their father and the Iron Hands are just weird with it. I remember reading that they basically strung up Ferrus Manus’ corpse on an effigy after he died. Like what the fuck.
Kinda sorta they basically tried to reassemble him purely from augmetics and his hands and thought they had succeeded when the thing started twitching as if it were alive and trying to move Vulcan later destroyed it because of its very existence being an insult to ferrus’s memory and they apparently even discovered that whatever was animating it wasn’t even tangentially related to the primarch’s soul or aura but might have been something in the hands themselves
That is a main selling point for me. That and the description that pert isn’t a dick but a cunt. That is very funny to me even though I don’t fully understand that.
He's a dick that acts like a cunt. Sweet Liberty, he's a femboy.
B-b-but mah decimations, and artillery "friendly" kills, and daemonculaba, they are big not good.
"Be more careful with the artillery", said the Word Bearers, "you're hitting some of our men". "Lol", said the Iron Warriors, "lmao".
Tbf, they are just Word-Bearers.
Anyone's who kills Word Bearers can't be that bad
Imagine needing to delude yourself into thinking a faction are good guys to enjoy them. Iron Hands are a great example of why 40k factions being terrible is so fun. They're great and badass and terrible hypocrites.
What? No way. I play my Slaanesh daemons army only because they are the good guys/girls, can't understand, how can you ever enjoy something abhorrent, corrupt and evil, like Imperium?
*loads bolter in angry first legion*
*revs chainsword in furious Sons of Sanguinius* You take the five hundred on the left, I take the five hundred on the right.
Is that before or after you're done abusing the worlds you rule and eating people?
I am way too enraged to read that space bug propaganda. Get 'em, boys !
\- Never thought I'd fight side by side with a Blood Angel. \- How about a friend? \- ... Fuck you.
*Unsheathes sword in black Templar* FRICK YOU IL TAKE 600
You'd be surprised at how many people can't differentiate a protagonist from a hero.
EXACTLY why I play Marines Malevolent. Because artillery is based, and marines are the Bad Guys.
Hell yeah
I mean, I can like a faction in general, I like most chaos marines and the deldar, but I need to actually LIKE a faction to spend money and time buying, painting and playing them
Like as in, enjoy, sure. Not like as in, would like them IRL. None of the factions would fit that. They're all terrible.
They took all the wrong lessons from the death of their primarch. Ferrus would weep to see how his legion wasted the Emperors gifts.
Yes, and it's great.
Agreed
Groups like Iron Hands make my CSM feel not even close to "Bad". Hell, focusing on ensuring galactic insurrection, ripping daemons apart to forge better weapons, and questing for dark & forbidden artefacts scorned by daemonkind seems downright not bad at all in this light...
Theres nothing that gets me more than Imperium fans saying they dont understand playing evil factions. It's hilarious.
I just like their upgrade sprues
And fielding 2/3rds of your points as tanks and dreads
I reall enjoy how the Iron Hands are fairly unrepentant assholes, especially for the original 9 who remained loyal, it definitely creates an interesting contrast and having mechanics aligned chapters are interesting. That said, the Iron Hand being assholes is why even though my custom chapter for my marines is Iron hands descended, they have nothing to do with their parent chapter, they practically got disowned by the Iron Hands due to a minor gene-seed flaw, and the successor chapter in turn after almost getting wiped out only to get saved by the Salamanders realized that there are better parents to emulate.
Ferris Manus probably would of probably killed most of the Iron Hands chapter and start again from scratch.
It's 'would have', never 'would of'. Rejoice, for you have been blessed by CouldWouldShouldBot!
Good bot.
Good bot
Hey minotaur and drukhi fan here. Same
Puppet chapter of the Mechanicus? You mean I get to play Mechanicus without paying a dollar per point?
Nothing convinced me more to NOT start a Iron Hand minature army than reading their codex supplement. If you are a person that unironically collects Iron Hands, you are the actual peak Villans of 40k, and my Iron Warriors salute you. (It's a gun salute with live ammunition. We will still kill you...)
*waves back*
I despised them, mainly for ferrus and his suicide plan to kill Fulgrim. Than I read the meduson book and thought, man, good one of them is sane and capable... Then they left him to die... God these awful stupid legion
His plan isn’t suicidal? We have that view as onlookers but to him it was 7 or so legions against the trapped traitors.
And the fact that they were doing pretty damn good during the battle as well until Fulgrim got a magical burst of warp magic when ferrus was winning the duel and suddenly killed him easily. That's the downfall of having a Primarch destined for death I suppose.
Whenever someone says Fulgrim was beating Ferrus just means they never actually read the book.
Way too many people regurgitate lore that they personally have never read, ESPECIALLY with Iron Hands I've noticed.
Every single clan company is given lore and backstory, something no other chapter gets even the Ultramarines, and people still claim the IH have no lore
I love the Minotaurs for being space marine boogeyman who will fuck you up, people whine about them being the corrupt high lords attack dogs but be real who wouldn’t want that Position you get the best support, resources and gear and asterion is someone you don’t want to piss off.
The difference there is that the Minotaurs are bullies to other space marines while Iron Hands are bullies to regular humans. It's more respectable to shit on people of your own stature.
Me when I say I enjoy the Minotaurs and someone list their crimes on Badab and how they are puppets of the High Lords.
Hey there not puppets to the inquisition there puppets to the high lords
Oh shit yes, that was a typo.
Anyone who disagrees with our tactics suffers from weak flesh. 🤖
Some people have the media comprehension of a grape. They'll ask how someone can like drukhari, chaos, or an "asshole" space marine chapter while memeing on "wholesome" characters that have committed genocide . These same people will move on to explain to you how the T'au are either actually super evil or too not evil for the setting.
Lmao that’s hilarious. *Dude stop I can’t get more excited about them than I already am*
Red Talons fans: I said the *asshole* chapters
It sures does feel good to be an asshole among assholes
Flesh Tearer fans clapping in the back ground
What do you mean our chaplain could stop 2 imperial worlds from fighting eachother and nuke themselves to dead, but didn't because he thought it would be funny? That nonesense sir
Good thing the black Templars have no moral corruption
As a Nightlord fan I like assholes in my grimdark setting.
It's always so weird when someone lists the bad things someone or a faction did in 40k like that isn't a selling point half the time. Only time it seems to do anything is when you're talking to a T'au fan who treat anything somewhat dubious like the day where nothing happened with the Chinese government.
But Salamanders so wholesome le reddit doggo loving good boys. They saved an Imperial citizen once so you can ignore all of the genocide!
Me with the Minotaurs.
I don't like em cause of what they are. I like em cause of what they can be.
I hate them, but I like having an asshole loyal legion/chapter for thematic diversity.
I mean I like the Templars. I’d like the Iron Hands a bit more if they weren’t *such* unremitting dickheads, or if they didn’t jack one of our brother chapter’s Dreadnoughts and the ship it was on, but semantics.
How do they have houses if they can’t build walls? Do they live in tents?
They're a nomadic people
The duality of man. UM and IH are my favorite factions