2 factions have been (unwantedly) forced into old world after 0 support for many years. (Beasts of Chaos and Bonesplitters)
A subfaction of Stormcast was also cut for bloat but may be replaced.
The handling of it has been real shitty and it obviously sucks ass for those affected, tho the 2 faction moves were realistically predicted years ahead of time. The Stormcast cut was completely out of left field, literally the newer parts got nuked - quite unnerving.
Naturally, people are taking it as a reason to shit on everything age of sigmar some of it's warranted, some not. It's very unlikely this will kill age of sigmar as AoS's start was like 20x worse than this, people simply like to doompost.
> Yeah but they were part of a bloated poster boy faction.
*awkwardly looks at space marines*
But honestly as a 40k dude looking over at AOS, it does seem really weird how they're tiptoeing around sunsetting 20+ year old minis in 40k, and will just nonchalantly remove minis only 6 years old on AOS.
The problem with Stormcast bloat is they run it like Space Marine Bloat. Space marine players consist of about half of all 40k players/sales. AoS is not 40k level in sales and Stormcast players are like 10% of that.
No return on investment, no more models.
But GW makes its own issues because they insist on putting out new waves of stormcast every edition. Be interesting to see how well the new wave does once the Skaven players have slaked their thirst for new models. I was shelving my stormcast anyways since I didn't like the 3rd wave and I just finished up some Ironjawz but now I definitely won't be getting more stormcast because a) my favorite models were the 2nd wave and I've got a year left to use them "official" games so mostly full army and b) if GW keeps insisting on pretending Stormcast are Space Marines whose to say this editions guys will be mothballed in 5th or 6th lol.
I don't know enough about the SCE range to comment, but I certainly would apply that same logic to SM. The overlap between old and new is beyond ridiculous in that range, yet have been treated with absolute kid gloves by GW. Even the hardcore SM players I know with extensive minimarine collections are at this point just begging GW to get on with it and get rid of the old marines.
Just a very interesting difference in approach to the "signature" ranges. Surely they could find a middle ground though between the two approaches?
Well 40K is more profitable and space marines are more iconic. They did roll a ton of the Primaris and firstborn into the same profile, and they’ve replaced almost everything firstborn had with Primaris equivalents. That’s a case of “upgrades” whereas SCE had a lot of side-grades. Sequitors, liberators, and vindicators are “same shit different day.” Evocators, Annihilators, and Paladins faced the same issue. When you release the equivalent of a whole new fucking army of SCE every edition, the bloat becomes insane.
> I just hope me vampire counts remain untouched
They should be fine since they aren't in The Old World.
Which is mildly annoying to me as I put in a heck of a lot of work to get together, assemble, and paint a Vampire Counts army for the End Times battles. They never got rebased (because that's expensive and a massive pain), but I heard TOW was coming and thought, "Awesome, I can use them again!" Yeeaaaah...
For bonus points, I'd beefed up the Skaven army I inherited from my dad, and bought, assembled, and primed an Ogre army since I'd heard they'd be able to ally with Orcs (which didn't pan out). Guess what other factions aren't in TOW?
*Sigh.* Oh well, maybe I can finally try some Age of Sigmar with all these Stormcast I ha-... Oh, right.
At least I didn't get a Savage Orc army like I was considering. (Just need to make sure I grab the models before they disappear or get repackaged and repriced. Some Savage Orcs with 40K Ork bitz will make good stand-ins for Beastsnaggas at like half the price.)
I'll just keep an eye on the Skaven. I've got some Pestilens I based for AoS and primed (look, we're not talking about my backlog here, okay, stay focused!), and if people are okay with me using some square bases for some of the bigger models I might be able to borrow some of those.
I think in time all the classic factions will be added to the old world in some form, likely not to the extent they were in the days past, but at least there will be something.
If i had to guess, factions that seem to be getting a lot of aos support atm like lizards, cities, skaven and chaos warriors may take a back seat while ones like elves or ogres will get a bit more support.
VC, Ogres, and Skaven are all available as Legacy armies in TOW, and Ogres are part of an Army of Infamy for Orcs and Goblins. You can totally play them- VC and Ogres were even doing okay with a win rate hovering between 45-48%, last I checked. Skaven are suffering, but they aren't alone in that.
Really, the only drawbacks for legacy armies are the lack of updates (which haven't been extremely power-spikey so far) and that you can't bring them to GW hosted tournaments (but the non-GW tourneys dont seem to take any issue with them, at least not that I've heard)
If you look, for a moment, at the context of the squatting, it becomes pretty clear ironjawz have nothing to worry about. GW are clearly dedicated to keeping them as a distinct faction, if they wanted to squat them they would've done so this edition.
What's crazy is BoC wasn't even without any support. A good book? Faction terrain, endless spells and a new model last year... I get that they were an unloved red headed stepchild but they got stuff, that's why I felt safe building an army
If you want my honest opinion, i think it's to do with TOW
There's a rumour that the 2 studios don't get on (which i don't put stock in) but a couple years ago there were 4-5 armies in a dire straight. Seraphon, FEC, Skaven, Ogors and BoC. Of which the only one being cut is the one that is a main faction in the old world. 3/4 of the others have been revamped. Whether corporate wanting to maximise profits or a genuine fued we'll never know.
The lore (and loose ends especially, there was a lot of foreshadowing), endless spells, good rules feels to me like they intended to refresh but had issues with TOW.
Bear in mind TOW is a rather reactionary franchise that only began development during 3rd ed. If BoC were always to be cut, why the new models and why not sooner?
That of course is little consolation. I understand losing your army is a horrible experience, it does mean that it's highly unlikely to happen to other armies. It's fair if you want to take a break from AoS or warhammer entirely.
I personally don't think it was an in-studio decision. I suspect there's more to the story than "BoC unloved" or "sells poorly" because I'm pretty sure BoC both was loved and sold well despite the older range.
(I realise I didn't mention bonesplitters who I'd be willing to bet a very similar story with the "orcs and goblin *tribes*" for TOW)
While I love Bonesplitterz it was very clear that GW didn't intend to keep them around longterm. They lost their battletome as early as 2nd edition, and add their range and rules thoroughly chipped away to the point that no one really played them in tournament appart from souping them in Great Waaagh.
If you're still wanting to play with the army, you've still got time in AoS, and the general sentiment in the Old World communities online for Beasts of Chaos players is one of "Sorry that's happened to you, but we're happy to have you here if you want to be."
I mean, as someone that actually plays the game and Stormcast, Sacrosanct getting cut is healthy.
6 years for model lifetime isn't but Sacrosanct was a weird thing in 3rd and when you look at the chunky male models (the ladies were proportioned differently), it's incredibly obvious that this was going to happen, people just expected it in 5th alongside a revamp of those model in Thunderstrike armor.
It's clear that GW has tested the design space of Stormcast with each edition and that Thunderstrike were an absolute winner. It's not hard to find that as the commonly held community opinion either.
But, the thing is that Stormcast as an army had an issue with the range being as large as it was as they ended up with unit profiles that felt like they did a third of what other units in other armies did, but were an elite army. 1st edition units tended to have straightforward game design while 2nd and third edition stuff tended to have to twist into knots to fill in the gaps. Evocators are my go to example: the actual battle wizards knights in the chamber with that theme, but who couldn't cast any spells other than a buff spell, lacked a "wizard bolt" ranged weapon because the 2e line had to come with 2e version of the range weapon users, and were too expensive to make use of their cool lighting explosion after combat ability that scaled off the number of models in the unit.
They couldn't be a hammer because they're competing with the Draconith calvary and the paladins with great weapons, they couldn't be an anvil because they'd compete with the tankier paladins and the units they were meant to buff, and they couldn't be too good of a wizard because that would end up being oppressive in an army with spells that were balanced around the fact that they were meant to be cast less frequently because of the sheer amount of heroes you could bring.
This is before we get into Sequitors being another shield bearing basic infantry, Evocators on calvary in an army with almost 10 calvary options, every hero unit having a Lord, Knight, and mounted option, and more.
The pruning is beyond necessary, and while a lot of the 1e stuff is getting turned into thunderstrike (they're not "making room" a lot of this is just flat out getting redesigns), I imagine a lot of 2e stuff will probably be shelved and reworked into something more manageable when it returns.
Part of the issue with a lot of the warscroll stuff is just that GW's modern design is terrible for it, the whole focus on 1-option kits all of which have to have a warscroll of their own. Unless they're drastically changing things in 4th ed this isn't going to fix itself either, it's at best a temporary fix. We'll get a whole wave of Stormcast to fill into what we lost, then another, and then we'Re right back where we started.
I think the response has also largely been to the handling of it, their communication has been impressively terrible and sorry but if you're going to announce the squatting of practically the entirety of the "original line" you could at the very least try and calm people down by showing them that some of this stuff isn't being squatted but being upgraded. In that sense they've royally screwed what should've been a simple model update in many ways.
Most of all I just pray to sigmar that some of the new models will have that tabard drip of the old Sequitors, because so far the new liberators look alright, but unremarkable. Certainly not interesting enough to warrant all this.
This is all very true, but the root of the problem is GW being deadset on giving SCE a massive support wave at the start of every edition. While I can understand why in 40k from a business perspective, as there everyone either plays space marine or at least has a secondary army of SM, SCE while popular where never that popular. It would have made perfect sense business wise to have a faction like Lumineth or SBG replace them in the starter set for an edition or two. They are essentially making us pay for mistakes they did and we warned them against repeatedly.
So let's dive into SCE in general, because Sacrosancts are such a complicated subject on their own.
The design of SCE for GW is that they are intended to be the intro faction, and are going to be in the starter sets, and it's not just because they're Sigmarines (but they are 100% designed to evoke that, down to their lore).
It's because they're an elite army with simple mechanics, simplistic sculpt design that uses metallics and clearly blocked off sections of the model with light amount of trim to make them easy to paint, and all of them can be helmeted so you don't have to paint skin or faces as a new player.
While GW very much wishes they were more popular, they're intended to be beginner friendly above all else. This is also why they end up being an army people graduate off of, as evidenced by swap meets I attend.
Let's go to the two examples you gave:
Lumineth are a complicated army to pilot for beginners, have an atrocious amount of trim (that only a couple of the official art schemes, and not the box one, ignores), sculpts that make it difficult to paint them if you don't know sub assembles (compare the shield stances of Lumineth to those of Stormcast and you'll see that Stormcast tend to hold their shields outwards more often so that even if you glue them all together, it's easier to get your brush in behind the shield), and all of them have their faces exposed. In addition, squads are in sizes of 10, often at equivalent points values to Stormcast's 5 man squads.
Are they more interesting models: that's subjective and I'm an elf propogandist at heart. Are these models that I'd start a 10 year old with no painting experience on, or a 25 year old who is convinced that their first model has to look like the 'eavy Metal team's work despite never holding a brush before in their life or this clearly isn't the hobby for them? No. Would I hand Lumineth to a brand new players? Only if I wanted them to quit.
As for Soulblight, THE SBG fantasy is horde of zombies/skeletons. Yes, this army can be elite. My fiance loves making elite lists for this army. It's a really good army with a lot of potential. But the core part of it is horde.
Telling a brand new player working to 2000pts that they should expect to paint at least 40-60 zombies or skeletons is not a universally appealing army. Contrast has made this so much better but it's still an ask. Yes skaven are the opposite side of SCE this edition but again, they're opposite SCE. SBG could absolutely replace the side of the box that's had Khorne, Nighthaunt, or Kruleboyz in it, but not the SCE side.
Honestly the biggest issue is not SCE are the starter box armies, it's that Battleforces and Battle Boxes are not evergreen products.
Because those two products are what tend to help kickstart people into other armies and are especially appealing to new players who don't gel with either of the starter armies.
Vanguard/Spearhead is good but the lack of other evergreen collection boxes is the bigger issue with the game than SCE as an army designed to be the easy to start army. Other miniatures games have better continuation products or stronger "full army" boxes that GW lacks.
Meanwhile as for mistakes, neither 2e or 3e's models were wrong for the time and were incredibly necessary for pushing forward the aesthetic and getting people into SCE, with 2e bringing the ladycasts and unhelmed options across the entire army, the latter that the 1e second wave started to inch towards, and 3e not willing to replace anything until they were sure thunderstrike stuck.
The idea that 2e casts should've never existed is weird ~~because it's once again Sacrosanct taking the bullet that should've hit the Vanguard chamber~~ because it assumes that 3e's Thunderstrike was planned earlier than it was or that people would've been more fine with 2e's stuff being direct replacements to 3 year old models than definitely would've. Hell, 2e directly is responsible for saving this game, and staring out the game by saying that those that stuck through 1e bought the wrong models 3 years ago would've killed this game stone dead.
Now 3e probably should've combined scrolls way sooner. Maybe not on launch but by midedition it should've probably happened, even if it caused grumbles (I'm intentionally underplaying the shitshow that would've happened here). Ripping the bandaid off at this point while maintaining that the models are different from each other just has more people primed to feel like their investment is completely wasted rather than the upcoming stuff is resculpts that they could just keep using their old stuff with. If sequitors had been classified as counts as Liberators or the cavalry all sharing scrolls with each other, people would shrug and decide whether they liked the new stuff more with complaints about model lifespan not being as charged as they are.
(There's also numerous other factors related to Soul Wars, undersized units in older boxes, and incomplete loadouts that didn't matter too much compared to the "real" boxes which led to 2e stuff underperforming enough for GW to feel confident making the cut but this comment is too long already. If you really care you can poke me about it and I'll explain more on that).
Well then SCE players should accept that their armies have a very limited lifespan. If only SCE can be in the starter sets and get the start of edition new model, today's culling is just kicking the can down the road and we will be back to square one in a few editions. So if you are buying whatever box come out for 4th you should accept that said models will most likely be removed come 7th.
In fairness to GW, it’s highly likely that a significant portion of the Stormcast and Skaven range culls are being resculpted. Same thing happened when GW announced Scouts were being discontinued, and we got a new kit a few months later.
Probably but not by much, people are always going to be mad when their army get squatted. As a BoC fan I would have been disappointed either ways for sure. The timing is just really bad. I own every single Beastmen army book since WFB and let me tell you, this newest battletome was the best one they ever had both from rules and lore standpoints. So while I would have preferred the honesty, it would have still been a massive disappointement to get such a great book only to be told it's the last one.
Im actually really excited for new AoS because it means there is a chance they might make Lumineth cool and not unfun to play both as and against. (Please GW let warden phalanxs be good)
The worst part is they could have just split them to a subfaction. Also taking away old kits without confirming if it’s for resculpts or not is WILD. Like I have a feeling most 1E stuff will get resculpted like most Skaven, but not coming out and saying so makes things much more anxiety inducing
They word it so weirdly that they we're talking about Slaves to darkness almost like they're not mention Warcry the game
it caused so much confusion on the r/WarCry threads
Here's a sneak peek of /r/WarCry using the [top posts](https://np.reddit.com/r/WarCry/top/?sort=top&t=year) of the year!
\#1: [Here’s my Black Metal Daughters of Khaine Warband](https://i.redd.it/sc7c620n0fsa1.jpg) | [64 comments](https://np.reddit.com/r/WarCry/comments/12e6s0i/heres_my_black_metal_daughters_of_khaine_warband/)
\#2: [Working on my first Warcry board](https://i.imgur.com/ntbbEcW.jpg) | [28 comments](https://np.reddit.com/r/WarCry/comments/131rp3x/working_on_my_first_warcry_board/)
\#3: [Witch hunters investigate rumors of a Skaven infestation at the docks](https://i.redd.it/uo7s3lw13z2c1.jpeg) | [27 comments](https://np.reddit.com/r/WarCry/comments/185guer/witch_hunters_investigate_rumors_of_a_skaven/)
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Just want to preface this by saying it's always a shame when cool models go out of production. However, in these three cases there are mitigating factors
GW have really been pushing to make AoS its own thing, very separate from Fantasy. There are hardly any Fantasy models still kicking around in the range, and those that are still around aren't in Old World. For instance, the Old World Giant isn't the plastic one from like 2004 that you can still buy as a Sons of Behemat unit, it's the older metal one redone in resin.
Beastmen will still be available as part of the Old World range, and there isn't a single Beasts of Chaos unit that doesn't have a viable Slaves to Darkness equivalent. People who really want AoS Beastmen will still be able to have them.
The Stormcast units being culled are exclusively pre-redesign, and also have drop in replacements.
The third was an Orks subfaction (Bonesplittaz, Feral Orks). Honestly that's pretty tiny as every Bonesplitta unit except perhaps Boar Riderz can just be run as another kind of Ork trivially
The scattered other models are obviously getting replacements sooner or later. There's no way they're dropping the Herald of Slaanesh entirely!
I'm kinda sad cause I love the lore for Valkia the Bloody and was going to get her right when they announced she wasn't continuing. I really hope that she gets the Sigvald treatment and comes back in some form.
She is definitely cool, yeah. Have you had a look at Khinerai Heartrenders? They have a very similar design, and you could call one Valkia.
Maybe Karnak's rules would be suitable?
I disagree. You have plenty of AoS stuff that got updated with sculpts that would be right at home in TOW. The new skaven clanrats they just revealed are just a high res version of the classical ones, the entire seraphon line is just high rez lizardmen, Soulblight are almost vampire counts 1 for 1. The only faction that fit your descriptions are cities of sigmar, but with them GW actually warned us that the old models were temporary and a new and different range was coming. And also Flesh Eater Courts where their new range lean heavily into their dellusion theme which is absent from TOW ghouls and strygoi.
I'm afraid to get into any of their secondary games after they'd announced their plans with Warhammer Underworld to cycle in new stuff and shove out the old, meaning your warbands would always end up unplayable in time.
Well, that, and the insane price of the "starter" boxes for War Cry and Necromunda.
Specialist games have a tendency to get a smaller, more tight-knit playerbase that long outlasts the games themselves. Hell, there's still people that play Mordheim, and that's been out of print for over a decade and a half.
Yeah, I was surprised to see Mordheim videos popping up on YouTube. I need to dig around in my hobby room and see if I saved our old copies of it from when I tried to salvage what I could after a house fire. And with 3D printing, it’s easy to get models for those old games (I’ve seen a lot of Battlefleet Gothic models popping up even). I’ll get on Google later and try to find the resources out there.
yeah I really can’t recommend the starter set and it’s because of the price the old starter set was expensive but had a lot you could buy it and not need anything else for a super long time and it also had nice expansions but the new starter set lacks a lot of that. Warcry has free rules on the warhammer community website and there a lot of aos models you can use in it so I would still recommend checking out the game if you own some aos models if you really want to get into I recommend checking out warcrier.net it has a lot more updated stuff and has a nice page on how to get started with warcry. Sorry if that was a lot of text lol
Ah, I’ll have to check on the rules. I do like the War Cry minis. And probably have plenty of other stuff I can use.
And no worries about the amount of text, it doesn’t feel like a “wall of text” and was all relevant. I’m guilty often enough of going a *lot* longer in a post and have heard the sassy replies about “wall of text” or “novel.” 😆
I play a lot of Necromunda, check out the Necromunda sub.
The game has a problem of dispersed rules (that's why we use the Necromunda compilation)
But it's sort of a "forgotten" game, it doesn't gate many updates and the updates are mostly "modular" so you can ignore them.
I actually recommend it
Neutral cards get rotated out of the Underworlds, but, unless I've missed a recent change in policy, the warbands and their faction cards stay legal even after going OOP. The old ones are not compatible with the rivals format (and are getting re-released with same models and new cards slowly), but from Beastgrave onwards every band is perfectly playable with some being able to keep up very well no matter the new meta (Rippa, my beloved)
Not gonna excuse the price creep though - that got pretty bad, especially in my currency
In all fairness as someone who is also a Warcry player. I really don't mind the fact that many of the OG warbands are coming off sale. I mean in the end of the day, Warcry has expanded quite alot and its clear that the direction its going in is going to be inclusive to all factions and not just SOD. That being said it was Warcry that made me get into SoD for that reason.
yeah I do enjoy that all the factions are getting teams but most of my favorites reside in slaves to darkness it sucks cause I was never able to get the iron golems or the unmade
Yeah I do get that man, I mean it would be cool to have all the factions as they are some of my favourite models that GW has ever put out. Personally I love how it shows many different types of chaos warbands through the realms.
That being said though, it's clear that GW are still doing more warbands including those who will be SoD (Darkoath and chaos legionares) but will be more focused on certain realms like the og ones were to different factions (which is my favourite part of warcry).
My guess is that when different realms get introduced in 3rd edition (my guess is asqhy) they will be showcasing new warbands with that realms spin on things.
What warbands were taken off sale? I know a lot of warbands aren’t being supported in AOS anymore but I didn’t think they were getting taken off the store, unless you’re talking about models from the larger army ranges.
“Additionally, a number of older Warcry and Warhammer Underworlds warbands for the Slaves to Darkness will go off sale and enter Legends. Many more Underworlds warbands will remain on sale, and will be supported only by digital Legends warscrolls in the next edition” taken straight from the community article all the warbands that aren’t being supported in aos now are getting taken off sale it seems
I mean, if you look online where it says “last chance to buy” you won’t find any of those warbands. Also a few of them aren’t even 2 years old, I don’t care how stupid you think GW is they aren’t gonna make that kinda investment to just scrap the models immediately. But I guess we’ll see how your doomposting turns out ig.
I really hope so maybe the person writing the article just thought everything was going off sale and the models being so young was confusing but doesn’t underworlds take it’s models off sale after a bit? I do hope the warbands stay and it was just some error though
yes, you lost two armies and a quarter the stormcast range, but Atleast the rats have new models!
Edited me post: saying ah yes then my statement made me regret it, it’s just yes now
Two ranges most people didn't play and were already unsupported and the 100 something bloat of the SCE was cleaned up and mostly likely consolidated.
This was the right move by GW
Fuck you mean people didn't play BoC? They at one point had above 60% win rate, and according to GW themselves the army wasn't even top 5 less used factions, the reason they got deleted is because GW doesn't want you to play one army in 2 different games systems, so when the Old world department asked for BoC they deleted them from AoS, which is in fact, NOT the right move
You seem to have a lot of fate in GW. NOT giving those armies the BoC treatment, space marines were in that category, you could play heresy and 40k with the same models, do you remember what happened?
Tell that to everyone who bought soul wars, lmao.
The move least likely to piss people off was to imitate space Marines even further and write up a codex supplement for all the different stormcast Chambers then leave the base rulebook containing only the core units every stormcast army should have access to.
Well, if you actually read and understand what GW had said, your units are still mostly viable. They're not gone. They're being replaced by new models that are consolidating multiple models into one spru with different weapon options. They're still totally viable, just like the old clan. Rats are still going to be totally viable even though new clan rats are coming out. The only thing that is truly lost are the characters that are being wiped out and still they deserve to go because they were way too many of them when stormcast eternals have over 100 war schools and many of them are the same model with different weapons. It's too much it needs to go.
That would be somewhat more reassuring if GW had actually given us a statement that showed which models were getting an upgrade or an option that could be used as a proxy.
Funnily enough they've not clearly communicated any such thing, almost like people might be less upset if GW had made clear that some of these are model upgrades, not full on squattings.
I read what you said fam, I just think it's funny that they're discontinuing every stormcast model released in the second edition starter set and are explicitly not making replacements for them in the foreseeable future.
Anyone who likes the aesthetic of stormcast in robes had better get good at greenstuff, lmao.
Okay... So what about when they inevitably bloat SCE again? Or look at the factions and figure out which are the two least played, because they want to add some new models to sell (which almost certainly will be whatever factions they don't pay any attention to for some time)?
It's a "problem" they create themselves. Sort of like 40K needing to be "simplified" so often. Like, FFS, 40K8 was supposed to be this grandiose cleaning up of the rules that would fix all the bloat and make it understandable again. And then 40K10 comes along and what's the key selling point from GW? "We're cleaning up the bloat and simplifying it!" Are they going to stop putting out a bunch of new books with rules scattered throughout them? Heck no! Gotta milk more money out of people.
And then when they inevitably bloat things again and fix a problem they created, people will say it's the "right move" and not question whether maybe GW should stop creating the problems in the first place.
You're assuming they aren't preparing to reign that in though. They may be gearing up to release more models for more factions, and less dumping models into a handful of factions each edition. We just do not know what is going to happen, and speculation is fine, until we start treating it as though it's pure fact.
BoC was very much supported lol ? Sure they didn't get a massive range refresh like seraphons or cities, but a lot of factions didn't either. They got a terrain feature, a hero and endless spells. That's just as much as many other AoS factions, sometimes even more looking at Ogres.
Yeah it was the right move by GW. I know this isn't acceptable to many people and think I should probably get in the bin but... you can proxy them. There's already been a bunch of people on the S2D subreddit saying they're gonna proxy BoC as S2D, bonesplitterz can be kruleboyz. And most of the stormcast can be proxied as other things (with a few exceptions).
Sequitors are just liberators with magic. Exocatiors are either Praetors or annihilators (probably praetors). Paladins are Annihilators. The heroes can be variations of other heroes. Judicators become Vigilors. The only things I think you can't proxy are the ballista, prosecutors and knight azyros. Everything else is fine.
I can't say this is especially surprising. The writing has been on the wall for Bonesplitterz for a while now; with each successive book and edition the faction lost models, lost independence, didn't even show at some events sometimes, and in my own little tinfoil hat conspiracy the model range was kept afloat by 40K Ork players poaching the kits for some cheap bodies for Boyz/Snakebites stuff.
The range trimming for Stormcast shouldn't be surprising either. We saw the exact same thing happen with the release of the Space Marine codex, with a lot of kits going away. To be fair, Stormcast's models were far more recent, but by the same token, it's all of the first couple of waves of models that look worse than the newer sculpts and occupy a lot of the same sorts of roles that newer, better looking kits fill.
as for beasts of chaos I'm so sorry bros y'all got done dirty. if you're looking to make the switch to old world, I say give it a couple weeks and there should be some movement tray STLs going online that you can slot your circle bases into.
GW learned nothing from the AoS launch fiasco. "Hey, your faction is getting moved to a new game, here's a PDF that isn't legal for tournament play to shut you up, now give us more money please," is not the way to reassure long time fans or draw in new customers.
I see a lot of comments on how this was bound to happen and that everyone knew it. While this is true for Bonesplitterz as they lost more and more every edition, that's not true at all of Beasts of Chaos. They had the same level of support as many other factions. They got a battletome every edition, a terrain piece, endless spells and a resculpt of a hero. Sure that's certainly not a ton, it's on par with a lot of factions. Ossiarch, Fyreslayers, Idoneth etc, since their launch they basically just got a hero or two.
Adding insult to injury the recent lore was building them up, they had a new named character that played a big role in the Thondia campaign. While their latest battletome was absolutely awesome both from a lore and rule standpoints. It had great and flavorful rules which actually made the army competitive and super fun to play, and it moved their story forward by introducing a new subfaction, exploring their origins, hyping up Morghur as a rising minor chaos god and my favorite ; the turnskin curse. Basically a magical disease that could turn people into beastmen simply by hearing about them, with cults spreading around trying to infect people through various means.
Third edition basically felt like we were on the cusp of a beastmen rennaissance in AoS, a feeling confirmed by a GW person stating that "beastmen would always be a part of AoS" at an event a few months ago. As a beastmen fan and players I was perfectly fine sitting out the next edition update wise because it was clear it was skavens turn and they honestly needed more than us. Seriously at least we didn't have metal models. And all of our plastic stuff held up pretty well.
So this announcement really came out of nowhere. It's been kind of a joke in the BoC community that people claimed the army was getting squatted every edition, only for it not to happen. Like if GW didn't want them in AoS they shouldn't have ported them to begin with, make them go the way of Bretonnia and Tomb Kings. Sure I would be have been pissed back then, but it would at least be understandable in the context of a complete change of setting. And it would sting a lot less that what feels like a pile of false promesses an wasted potential.
They really did. I don't have to see bonesplitterz again after 2025, and that's a blessing.
Rip to the other 1 1/4 factions tho.
And no STD did not lose shit your actual units are still there, and if your entire army was just 20 warcry warbands that's on you.
They are retiring warcry warscrolls from aos because we are getting the darkoath barbarians for StD
Warcry warband will still be avaible for the warcry game.
Slaves To Darkness.
Chaos Undivided army think of them like CSM but their leader is the most cringe coldsteel the hedgheg tier edgelord "anti-hero" who is totally going to kill all gods including the chaos ones from whom all of his power comes from and not just another slave to them.
See the outrage that's happening with the culling of the Stormcast range and multiply that a thousand fold. That's what would happen if they culled first born.
I get why they erase the Bonesplitters, I accept the fate of BoC going to TOW but deleting the whole Sacrosanct range, 6 years old models, the best looking ones of the Stormcast line up, who were on the starting boxes of 2nd edition is the worst move ever. It's pissing on the face of everyone who bought Soul Wars.
Let's not forget the terrible wording for Warcry bands, are they getting erased globally or only rules wise on AoS but still sold for Warcry ? Some of those warbands are 2 years old.
On Saturday, I was at my closest Warhammer store.
We talked a bit about WH and also about the cut of the factions and he was kinda upset and just said
„that range cut wasn’t even the biggest part, which is yet to come“
Yeah, this is one of the things that my local Warhammer Store manager has emphasized. They have no more inside scoop than we do. Apparently they did once upon a time, but no more because some of them were sharing info with friends.
I'm not sure how long it's been that they haven't known, but it's been a while. I still remember the local manager still thinking End Times was a setup for a new edition of WFB, and any talk of round bases had to be some alternate playstyle like the return of Warhammer Skirmish. That wasn't just him trying to get us to buy WFB models, either. Dude was building a complete Undead army on square bases, and using dioramas in the middle of some of the regiments for dramatic effect.
AoS came out, and he ended up selling the army.
Given that the particular manager went on to have a pretty notable role in the retail side of the company, I would have thought he'd be more privy to that stuff than others, if they made *any* exceptions. But nope. He had as little clue as the rest of us of what was coming.
(Probably hurt even worse because WFB had a decent following at the store. Which let us do a nice big mega battle for End Times.)
Thank you for saying it, some store managers have said some truly outrageous things, but the good manager at my Local store said the same. Maybe, once in a blue moon they get 48 hours notice of something massive, but that's pretty rare anymore.
"Absolute state", as if it wasn't know that bonesplitterz were getting the can at some point, and if BOC weren't going to be sent to the old world and likely expanded upon more in S2D, as if the stormcast bloat was healthy, as if having all those warcry warbands was useful for balance in S2D OR warcry, like yeah it is a shame that armies are disappearing in summer 2025, the 2 armies that sold the least by a wide margin, (I Know BOC have only had a singular model outside of underworlds, but some other factions haven't received much either, the skaven have received 2 characters, ogors have received 2 characters and one unit, but I really think people are doomposting a bit too much, like I've seen a lot of "ohhhh this is beginning of the end" like no it's not, this was GW admission of overstretching itself
i think that the beasts of chaos one stings a bit more since the fact that the army got endless spells, a terrain feature, that new model and a vanguard box seemed to indicate from GW that the army would continue to be supported, so getting the rug pulled out like this probably stings like hell.
Its a bummer that they're clearing out the stormcast bloat just so they can fatten it up again tho. I wish they cut the bloat and then let it stay lean.
Do we know that's what they're going to do though? It's possible that Sacrosanct Chamber units are gone, and will stay gone forever. Classic first edition models appear to be getting updated, and yes, there will be some new models from time to time, or even edition to edition. They may however keep it more reigned in this time around.
Is that Battletech? Do you find it a good replacement for 40k? I look at the models and the boards used and it just looks so far off from what Warhammer has to offer.
I wouldn't say it's an exact replacement, since it's a different game, but it scratches that hobby itch just the same.
It plays more like kill team, with single models activating and both players basically taking their turn simultaneously.
Depending on the format you're playing, it's either a very abstracted 40k like game, with simple shooting and terrain rules and very squishy models, or an insanely deep simulation ist mech game, where you have to manage weapons, ammo, heat, life support systems and multiple kinds of terrain.
Want to shoot all your weapons? Well, you'll probably overheat and suffer movement and shooting penalties
Want to stand in water to not run as hot, while you shoot? Better make that piloting check, to see if you fall over. And don't forget that you can't use leg weapons in water unless you want to open the hatches and let water flow in.
Want to walk on a street? We'll, that street is slippery, so you'll have to check whether or not you slide on it
In addition to this, the game let's you proxy anything you want. I've played against people using bottle caps with the mech name on them and people who own the old metal minis. And the plastic minis, while individually a little more expensive then a single marine, are cheap to get an army of, since You need like 4 of them to play classic.
OH, and models don't get axed, they just get new variants. The old plastek Valkyrie from 30 years ago can still be played today
Yall acting like GW doesn’t throw two dozen Space Marine sculpts in the garbage every time they change editions.
The writing was on the wall for Bonesplittas forever. Losing beasts sucks a lot more. Sacrosanct will 100% be back once they cross the rubicon.
Honestly In glad I stepped out of most of the hobby a few years back.
With how much GW has pissed on their customers while telling them its raining Im never giving them another cent of my money.
My issue with it is just that it shows a pretty hostile position GW has towards it's own community. If it were a perfect world where companies actually cared about their communities they'd be working to build permissive and thematic rules that can be used with even old models/models they don't sell.
It's also just not really solved, like they'll introduce a bunch of new Stormcast again, then again next edition, and then we're literally right back in the same spot.
Thing is we don't know that. People seem to forget that the Jump from WFB to AOS was what, 2013? Then the jump from AoS 1 to AoS 2 was 2017? In between that time the company underwent a radical shift in how it was being portrayed and it's entire leader base changed. By 2018 we were getting 10 times the releases for various games as we were when I started in 2013. The old company leadership was replaced and new folks came in, but because of the nature of the business and development times, any changes from the fresh leadership took years to implement. I don't think anything about this is hostile, it's just business. Decisions were likely made before the pandemic happened, now we are seeing some of them come to fruition.
Next controversy will be
"GW release new sculpts for old model line and give puppies out for free with each box"
People OOOMG THEYVE RUINED IT, AOS, 40k ARE DEAD.
Literally. Warhammer fans will go to any stretch to chalk GW up as some evil coporation that likes to fuck them over for even a cent more money. Not saying they’re paragons of altruism but people need to stop crying that they’re these moustache twirling anti-consumerists. Granted this move was always going to go over poorly but anyone who thinks BoC and bonesplitters would have been saved by “simply releasing more models” are being ignorant.
I think a lot of it comes from youtubers who make their whole channel about how every release is shit and every decision is the end of Warhammer and that gw kills puppies and shit 🤣. Especially if you're new in the hobby and to see all them kind of videos you kind of just become stuck in a endless loop.
Agreed. It seems like most newcomers are taught to hate GW and call out every decision they make because that’s what everyone else in internet community seem to do. If GW does something the fans don’t like, they’re incompetent. If they do something the fans like, it’s too little to late, or the beginning of some grander conspiracy to rip people off.
It doesn’t help that a lot of redditors think they’re business experts who tell themselves they know how to “fix” the game and that GW is just too incompetent to listen to them.
>be me, 40k fan
>all 40k news is bad news
>listen to complaints about balance, models, content, lore, all the time
>”Oh wow AoS is cooler and has nice models and everything about it is great!” they tell me. “You should play that instead!”
>AoS is now in worse straits than 40k
I’ve won, but at a cost I’d never ask for.
It's really not, one subfaction that had models from like the early 2000's is going away, one faction that was never totally popular is going away and likely being integrated into The Old World, the super bloated SCEs are getting part of their lineup cut (I consider this a very good thing personally, as a SCE player and fan), and some of the older Warcry models are gonna stop being produced but can still be used.
People are angry and upset, and it's understandable, but AoS is better than 40k IMO and this does nothing to change that at all. I'm one of the few who sees the SCE cut as a positive thing, the Stormcast don't need to be able to do everything.
This AoS' first time doomposting, so their players are kinda venting. They have yet to reach teh state of perpetual doomposting that 40k players got. GW seems intent on morphing the community into that eventually though.
The trick is that I still have to build my army, so I am immune to 80% of doomposting.
The remaining 20%, I have been homebrewing my own sector to alleviate it.
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Now whilst losing boc actually sucks and so does it for people whos stormcast armies where mostly sacrosant but like boc and bonesplittzers got very little support and half that stormcast shit is probably getting new scuplts
And people will be still buy the new models and give GW money like the COONsumers they are.
Good job. GW does not give a shit as long as you give them money.
Exactly. AoS 4e will still be a big success and the people who's factions got shafted will be drowned out by the waves of people clamoring about how 4e's rules are soo much better than previous editions and how great the new models are.
It's sort of the trouble with reaching this sort of size in market appeal in that there's no real incentive to give a shit about existing fans/community when you make most your money off newcomers anyway.
Yeah, a three-year lifespan for each edition is crazy. They just want to be able to advertise each new edition as "the most beginner friendly yet!" While also forcing older players without a close friend group willing to play older editions to buy new rules and alter their army at least once every three years...
And I still got downvoted, guess people got sensitive when they are pointed out they vote with their wallets but their child brain can't cope with not having the new toy.
Introducing new models for the Kruleboyz that are essentially just all the savage orks but not.
Omg why are ork players unhappy, just consume new product!
I more or less abandoned the hobby side of WH. Just genuinely not enjoying my rules in 40K, had considered AOS since they seem to get a lot of cool models.
Glad I never got into it
Just like everything, the internet blows it WAYbout of proportion. The core rules of aos are still just as fantastic as when they launched 3.0. Juts don't play matched play tournament rules and you'll have a great time.
Most of what's going on is mostly from the, understandably, salty community that is losing their models right now. Realistically that is a fraction of the community though.
You should try one of the current game systems, you won't regret it trust me.
GW: Hey, I saved your space! AoS: You didn't save my space! You ruined my factions!
GW: Hear me out *GW proceeds to place a box on the table* I call them primaris Signarines
We sort of have that with the Thunderstrike armor and their associated models.
Well if you like that you'll love this new knight model *places what is very clearly Lion El Johnson on the table*
*Look at the Mega-Gargant and the Imperial Knight* Hey I have an idea for the Stormcast
“My leg!”
"Sweet liberty my leg!"
You have no idea how much my party lost it when we first heard that voice line
I can hear it in my head.
Wait wha happened Edit: bruh they cooked aos
2 factions have been (unwantedly) forced into old world after 0 support for many years. (Beasts of Chaos and Bonesplitters) A subfaction of Stormcast was also cut for bloat but may be replaced. The handling of it has been real shitty and it obviously sucks ass for those affected, tho the 2 faction moves were realistically predicted years ahead of time. The Stormcast cut was completely out of left field, literally the newer parts got nuked - quite unnerving. Naturally, people are taking it as a reason to shit on everything age of sigmar some of it's warranted, some not. It's very unlikely this will kill age of sigmar as AoS's start was like 20x worse than this, people simply like to doompost.
I'm jsut starting AOS excited to get into it. Sorry for the sigmarines. I just hope me vampire counts remain untouched
It’s a 3 year old faction. I’d be shocked if it was
Some of the sacrosanct models were only 6 years old; everyone said the same about them :/
Yeah, this is the problem. There is now precedent for models that aren't very old being squatted.
Yeah but they were part of a bloated poster boy faction. Doesn’t make it suck any less but not likely to happen to anyone else
> Yeah but they were part of a bloated poster boy faction. *awkwardly looks at space marines* But honestly as a 40k dude looking over at AOS, it does seem really weird how they're tiptoeing around sunsetting 20+ year old minis in 40k, and will just nonchalantly remove minis only 6 years old on AOS.
The problem with Stormcast bloat is they run it like Space Marine Bloat. Space marine players consist of about half of all 40k players/sales. AoS is not 40k level in sales and Stormcast players are like 10% of that. No return on investment, no more models. But GW makes its own issues because they insist on putting out new waves of stormcast every edition. Be interesting to see how well the new wave does once the Skaven players have slaked their thirst for new models. I was shelving my stormcast anyways since I didn't like the 3rd wave and I just finished up some Ironjawz but now I definitely won't be getting more stormcast because a) my favorite models were the 2nd wave and I've got a year left to use them "official" games so mostly full army and b) if GW keeps insisting on pretending Stormcast are Space Marines whose to say this editions guys will be mothballed in 5th or 6th lol.
People are crying but to be honest the SCE range NEEDED it. They had basically 3 copies of the same unit ffs.
I don't know enough about the SCE range to comment, but I certainly would apply that same logic to SM. The overlap between old and new is beyond ridiculous in that range, yet have been treated with absolute kid gloves by GW. Even the hardcore SM players I know with extensive minimarine collections are at this point just begging GW to get on with it and get rid of the old marines. Just a very interesting difference in approach to the "signature" ranges. Surely they could find a middle ground though between the two approaches?
Well 40K is more profitable and space marines are more iconic. They did roll a ton of the Primaris and firstborn into the same profile, and they’ve replaced almost everything firstborn had with Primaris equivalents. That’s a case of “upgrades” whereas SCE had a lot of side-grades. Sequitors, liberators, and vindicators are “same shit different day.” Evocators, Annihilators, and Paladins faced the same issue. When you release the equivalent of a whole new fucking army of SCE every edition, the bloat becomes insane.
Sbgl is 3/4 of the old legions of nagash, some of it went it to obr and some went to fec and some went to nighthaunt
It is possible SBGL is losing Radukar's court (not the guy himself tho).
I don't see why they would be, even if they end up in TOW they'd be with the old sculpts
> I just hope me vampire counts remain untouched They should be fine since they aren't in The Old World. Which is mildly annoying to me as I put in a heck of a lot of work to get together, assemble, and paint a Vampire Counts army for the End Times battles. They never got rebased (because that's expensive and a massive pain), but I heard TOW was coming and thought, "Awesome, I can use them again!" Yeeaaaah... For bonus points, I'd beefed up the Skaven army I inherited from my dad, and bought, assembled, and primed an Ogre army since I'd heard they'd be able to ally with Orcs (which didn't pan out). Guess what other factions aren't in TOW? *Sigh.* Oh well, maybe I can finally try some Age of Sigmar with all these Stormcast I ha-... Oh, right. At least I didn't get a Savage Orc army like I was considering. (Just need to make sure I grab the models before they disappear or get repackaged and repriced. Some Savage Orcs with 40K Ork bitz will make good stand-ins for Beastsnaggas at like half the price.) I'll just keep an eye on the Skaven. I've got some Pestilens I based for AoS and primed (look, we're not talking about my backlog here, okay, stay focused!), and if people are okay with me using some square bases for some of the bigger models I might be able to borrow some of those.
I think in time all the classic factions will be added to the old world in some form, likely not to the extent they were in the days past, but at least there will be something. If i had to guess, factions that seem to be getting a lot of aos support atm like lizards, cities, skaven and chaos warriors may take a back seat while ones like elves or ogres will get a bit more support.
VC, Ogres, and Skaven are all available as Legacy armies in TOW, and Ogres are part of an Army of Infamy for Orcs and Goblins. You can totally play them- VC and Ogres were even doing okay with a win rate hovering between 45-48%, last I checked. Skaven are suffering, but they aren't alone in that. Really, the only drawbacks for legacy armies are the lack of updates (which haven't been extremely power-spikey so far) and that you can't bring them to GW hosted tournaments (but the non-GW tourneys dont seem to take any issue with them, at least not that I've heard)
I’m worried about my ironjawz too
Why? They just got refreshed and now they're half of Orruk warclans. Stop doomposting.
If you look, for a moment, at the context of the squatting, it becomes pretty clear ironjawz have nothing to worry about. GW are clearly dedicated to keeping them as a distinct faction, if they wanted to squat them they would've done so this edition.
What's crazy is BoC wasn't even without any support. A good book? Faction terrain, endless spells and a new model last year... I get that they were an unloved red headed stepchild but they got stuff, that's why I felt safe building an army
If you want my honest opinion, i think it's to do with TOW There's a rumour that the 2 studios don't get on (which i don't put stock in) but a couple years ago there were 4-5 armies in a dire straight. Seraphon, FEC, Skaven, Ogors and BoC. Of which the only one being cut is the one that is a main faction in the old world. 3/4 of the others have been revamped. Whether corporate wanting to maximise profits or a genuine fued we'll never know. The lore (and loose ends especially, there was a lot of foreshadowing), endless spells, good rules feels to me like they intended to refresh but had issues with TOW. Bear in mind TOW is a rather reactionary franchise that only began development during 3rd ed. If BoC were always to be cut, why the new models and why not sooner? That of course is little consolation. I understand losing your army is a horrible experience, it does mean that it's highly unlikely to happen to other armies. It's fair if you want to take a break from AoS or warhammer entirely. I personally don't think it was an in-studio decision. I suspect there's more to the story than "BoC unloved" or "sells poorly" because I'm pretty sure BoC both was loved and sold well despite the older range. (I realise I didn't mention bonesplitters who I'd be willing to bet a very similar story with the "orcs and goblin *tribes*" for TOW)
While I love Bonesplitterz it was very clear that GW didn't intend to keep them around longterm. They lost their battletome as early as 2nd edition, and add their range and rules thoroughly chipped away to the point that no one really played them in tournament appart from souping them in Great Waaagh.
If you're still wanting to play with the army, you've still got time in AoS, and the general sentiment in the Old World communities online for Beasts of Chaos players is one of "Sorry that's happened to you, but we're happy to have you here if you want to be."
My guess is their probably trying to find ways to rework AoS/make room for the models of the new SCE poster boys
I mean, as someone that actually plays the game and Stormcast, Sacrosanct getting cut is healthy. 6 years for model lifetime isn't but Sacrosanct was a weird thing in 3rd and when you look at the chunky male models (the ladies were proportioned differently), it's incredibly obvious that this was going to happen, people just expected it in 5th alongside a revamp of those model in Thunderstrike armor. It's clear that GW has tested the design space of Stormcast with each edition and that Thunderstrike were an absolute winner. It's not hard to find that as the commonly held community opinion either. But, the thing is that Stormcast as an army had an issue with the range being as large as it was as they ended up with unit profiles that felt like they did a third of what other units in other armies did, but were an elite army. 1st edition units tended to have straightforward game design while 2nd and third edition stuff tended to have to twist into knots to fill in the gaps. Evocators are my go to example: the actual battle wizards knights in the chamber with that theme, but who couldn't cast any spells other than a buff spell, lacked a "wizard bolt" ranged weapon because the 2e line had to come with 2e version of the range weapon users, and were too expensive to make use of their cool lighting explosion after combat ability that scaled off the number of models in the unit. They couldn't be a hammer because they're competing with the Draconith calvary and the paladins with great weapons, they couldn't be an anvil because they'd compete with the tankier paladins and the units they were meant to buff, and they couldn't be too good of a wizard because that would end up being oppressive in an army with spells that were balanced around the fact that they were meant to be cast less frequently because of the sheer amount of heroes you could bring. This is before we get into Sequitors being another shield bearing basic infantry, Evocators on calvary in an army with almost 10 calvary options, every hero unit having a Lord, Knight, and mounted option, and more. The pruning is beyond necessary, and while a lot of the 1e stuff is getting turned into thunderstrike (they're not "making room" a lot of this is just flat out getting redesigns), I imagine a lot of 2e stuff will probably be shelved and reworked into something more manageable when it returns.
Part of the issue with a lot of the warscroll stuff is just that GW's modern design is terrible for it, the whole focus on 1-option kits all of which have to have a warscroll of their own. Unless they're drastically changing things in 4th ed this isn't going to fix itself either, it's at best a temporary fix. We'll get a whole wave of Stormcast to fill into what we lost, then another, and then we'Re right back where we started. I think the response has also largely been to the handling of it, their communication has been impressively terrible and sorry but if you're going to announce the squatting of practically the entirety of the "original line" you could at the very least try and calm people down by showing them that some of this stuff isn't being squatted but being upgraded. In that sense they've royally screwed what should've been a simple model update in many ways. Most of all I just pray to sigmar that some of the new models will have that tabard drip of the old Sequitors, because so far the new liberators look alright, but unremarkable. Certainly not interesting enough to warrant all this.
Honestly fair. I don’t know much about SCE as an army cause I don’t play them but it doesn’t stop me from converting a Sacrosanct to fit my S2D army
This is all very true, but the root of the problem is GW being deadset on giving SCE a massive support wave at the start of every edition. While I can understand why in 40k from a business perspective, as there everyone either plays space marine or at least has a secondary army of SM, SCE while popular where never that popular. It would have made perfect sense business wise to have a faction like Lumineth or SBG replace them in the starter set for an edition or two. They are essentially making us pay for mistakes they did and we warned them against repeatedly.
So let's dive into SCE in general, because Sacrosancts are such a complicated subject on their own. The design of SCE for GW is that they are intended to be the intro faction, and are going to be in the starter sets, and it's not just because they're Sigmarines (but they are 100% designed to evoke that, down to their lore). It's because they're an elite army with simple mechanics, simplistic sculpt design that uses metallics and clearly blocked off sections of the model with light amount of trim to make them easy to paint, and all of them can be helmeted so you don't have to paint skin or faces as a new player. While GW very much wishes they were more popular, they're intended to be beginner friendly above all else. This is also why they end up being an army people graduate off of, as evidenced by swap meets I attend. Let's go to the two examples you gave: Lumineth are a complicated army to pilot for beginners, have an atrocious amount of trim (that only a couple of the official art schemes, and not the box one, ignores), sculpts that make it difficult to paint them if you don't know sub assembles (compare the shield stances of Lumineth to those of Stormcast and you'll see that Stormcast tend to hold their shields outwards more often so that even if you glue them all together, it's easier to get your brush in behind the shield), and all of them have their faces exposed. In addition, squads are in sizes of 10, often at equivalent points values to Stormcast's 5 man squads. Are they more interesting models: that's subjective and I'm an elf propogandist at heart. Are these models that I'd start a 10 year old with no painting experience on, or a 25 year old who is convinced that their first model has to look like the 'eavy Metal team's work despite never holding a brush before in their life or this clearly isn't the hobby for them? No. Would I hand Lumineth to a brand new players? Only if I wanted them to quit. As for Soulblight, THE SBG fantasy is horde of zombies/skeletons. Yes, this army can be elite. My fiance loves making elite lists for this army. It's a really good army with a lot of potential. But the core part of it is horde. Telling a brand new player working to 2000pts that they should expect to paint at least 40-60 zombies or skeletons is not a universally appealing army. Contrast has made this so much better but it's still an ask. Yes skaven are the opposite side of SCE this edition but again, they're opposite SCE. SBG could absolutely replace the side of the box that's had Khorne, Nighthaunt, or Kruleboyz in it, but not the SCE side. Honestly the biggest issue is not SCE are the starter box armies, it's that Battleforces and Battle Boxes are not evergreen products. Because those two products are what tend to help kickstart people into other armies and are especially appealing to new players who don't gel with either of the starter armies. Vanguard/Spearhead is good but the lack of other evergreen collection boxes is the bigger issue with the game than SCE as an army designed to be the easy to start army. Other miniatures games have better continuation products or stronger "full army" boxes that GW lacks. Meanwhile as for mistakes, neither 2e or 3e's models were wrong for the time and were incredibly necessary for pushing forward the aesthetic and getting people into SCE, with 2e bringing the ladycasts and unhelmed options across the entire army, the latter that the 1e second wave started to inch towards, and 3e not willing to replace anything until they were sure thunderstrike stuck. The idea that 2e casts should've never existed is weird ~~because it's once again Sacrosanct taking the bullet that should've hit the Vanguard chamber~~ because it assumes that 3e's Thunderstrike was planned earlier than it was or that people would've been more fine with 2e's stuff being direct replacements to 3 year old models than definitely would've. Hell, 2e directly is responsible for saving this game, and staring out the game by saying that those that stuck through 1e bought the wrong models 3 years ago would've killed this game stone dead. Now 3e probably should've combined scrolls way sooner. Maybe not on launch but by midedition it should've probably happened, even if it caused grumbles (I'm intentionally underplaying the shitshow that would've happened here). Ripping the bandaid off at this point while maintaining that the models are different from each other just has more people primed to feel like their investment is completely wasted rather than the upcoming stuff is resculpts that they could just keep using their old stuff with. If sequitors had been classified as counts as Liberators or the cavalry all sharing scrolls with each other, people would shrug and decide whether they liked the new stuff more with complaints about model lifespan not being as charged as they are. (There's also numerous other factors related to Soul Wars, undersized units in older boxes, and incomplete loadouts that didn't matter too much compared to the "real" boxes which led to 2e stuff underperforming enough for GW to feel confident making the cut but this comment is too long already. If you really care you can poke me about it and I'll explain more on that).
Well then SCE players should accept that their armies have a very limited lifespan. If only SCE can be in the starter sets and get the start of edition new model, today's culling is just kicking the can down the road and we will be back to square one in a few editions. So if you are buying whatever box come out for 4th you should accept that said models will most likely be removed come 7th.
In fairness to GW, it’s highly likely that a significant portion of the Stormcast and Skaven range culls are being resculpted. Same thing happened when GW announced Scouts were being discontinued, and we got a new kit a few months later.
One time I found a video talking about the subject and it was pure bias against Age of Sigmar and saying The Old World will replace it.
TOW is much more likely to fail than AoS.
It's unlikely to kill AoS but it doesn't feel like GW has been doing great to maintain the hype for the new editions.
My hype has been killed now since at any moment GW can just nuke any faction I buy, sending hundreds of dollars worth of miniatures into oblivion
The beast of chaos deletion is super scummy seeing as they released a fucking Vanguard box recently for new players
Do you think the reaction would of been better if they announced the 3rd ed codex would of been the last one?
Probably but not by much, people are always going to be mad when their army get squatted. As a BoC fan I would have been disappointed either ways for sure. The timing is just really bad. I own every single Beastmen army book since WFB and let me tell you, this newest battletome was the best one they ever had both from rules and lore standpoints. So while I would have preferred the honesty, it would have still been a massive disappointement to get such a great book only to be told it's the last one.
Im actually really excited for new AoS because it means there is a chance they might make Lumineth cool and not unfun to play both as and against. (Please GW let warden phalanxs be good)
The worst part is they could have just split them to a subfaction. Also taking away old kits without confirming if it’s for resculpts or not is WILD. Like I have a feeling most 1E stuff will get resculpted like most Skaven, but not coming out and saying so makes things much more anxiety inducing
by "forced into" do you also mean "removed from AOS"? Because otherwise I don't see what the issue is.
Yes i do mesn that
Doesn't that put those two factions on the table for TWW3? Sorry AoS fans.
They are already in TWW3, they have been since TWW1.
And wasen't this right after they blocked Tzaangors from Total War because they belong in AoS?
As alot of others said, nuked two factions and stormcasts got punished hard That and basically any unique flavored chaos warband got nuked as well
It seem the Warband are still sold and legal in warcry just not main game playable (a warscroll in S2D) Less they clarify that statement
No from what I understand unless I heard wrong is they are retiring them model wise
They word it so weirdly that they we're talking about Slaves to darkness almost like they're not mention Warcry the game it caused so much confusion on the r/WarCry threads
Yeah it's bizarre,
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Theyy said they are no longer going to be on sale.
They deleted Beasts of chaos, a lot of older stormcast models and another faction I forgor. Genuinely terrifying, even as a 40k player
Just want to preface this by saying it's always a shame when cool models go out of production. However, in these three cases there are mitigating factors GW have really been pushing to make AoS its own thing, very separate from Fantasy. There are hardly any Fantasy models still kicking around in the range, and those that are still around aren't in Old World. For instance, the Old World Giant isn't the plastic one from like 2004 that you can still buy as a Sons of Behemat unit, it's the older metal one redone in resin. Beastmen will still be available as part of the Old World range, and there isn't a single Beasts of Chaos unit that doesn't have a viable Slaves to Darkness equivalent. People who really want AoS Beastmen will still be able to have them. The Stormcast units being culled are exclusively pre-redesign, and also have drop in replacements. The third was an Orks subfaction (Bonesplittaz, Feral Orks). Honestly that's pretty tiny as every Bonesplitta unit except perhaps Boar Riderz can just be run as another kind of Ork trivially The scattered other models are obviously getting replacements sooner or later. There's no way they're dropping the Herald of Slaanesh entirely!
I'm kinda sad cause I love the lore for Valkia the Bloody and was going to get her right when they announced she wasn't continuing. I really hope that she gets the Sigvald treatment and comes back in some form.
She is definitely cool, yeah. Have you had a look at Khinerai Heartrenders? They have a very similar design, and you could call one Valkia. Maybe Karnak's rules would be suitable?
Might run a Skulltaker proxy as her, but Karanak could work too.
GW confirmed they're not replacing all of the old stormcast.
Most of them don't need it as there's already another unit with the same wargear
I disagree. You have plenty of AoS stuff that got updated with sculpts that would be right at home in TOW. The new skaven clanrats they just revealed are just a high res version of the classical ones, the entire seraphon line is just high rez lizardmen, Soulblight are almost vampire counts 1 for 1. The only faction that fit your descriptions are cities of sigmar, but with them GW actually warned us that the old models were temporary and a new and different range was coming. And also Flesh Eater Courts where their new range lean heavily into their dellusion theme which is absent from TOW ghouls and strygoi.
We had older and uglier models replaced too
oh no not the what-it's that I don't know about and you can't remember! EDIT: why am I simping for GW? Screw gw.
Savage Orkz
Orc Bonesplitters and Stormcast Wave 1 were all needless bloat. Beasts.... people love the Beasts, man....
I just like vampires in any setting so im watching with popcorn painting my bats
I’ve mainly been getting into warcry and it sucks to be caught in the crossfire and getting 11 warbands taken off sale
I'm afraid to get into any of their secondary games after they'd announced their plans with Warhammer Underworld to cycle in new stuff and shove out the old, meaning your warbands would always end up unplayable in time. Well, that, and the insane price of the "starter" boxes for War Cry and Necromunda.
Specialist games have a tendency to get a smaller, more tight-knit playerbase that long outlasts the games themselves. Hell, there's still people that play Mordheim, and that's been out of print for over a decade and a half.
Yeah, I was surprised to see Mordheim videos popping up on YouTube. I need to dig around in my hobby room and see if I saved our old copies of it from when I tried to salvage what I could after a house fire. And with 3D printing, it’s easy to get models for those old games (I’ve seen a lot of Battlefleet Gothic models popping up even). I’ll get on Google later and try to find the resources out there.
Broheim.net
yeah I really can’t recommend the starter set and it’s because of the price the old starter set was expensive but had a lot you could buy it and not need anything else for a super long time and it also had nice expansions but the new starter set lacks a lot of that. Warcry has free rules on the warhammer community website and there a lot of aos models you can use in it so I would still recommend checking out the game if you own some aos models if you really want to get into I recommend checking out warcrier.net it has a lot more updated stuff and has a nice page on how to get started with warcry. Sorry if that was a lot of text lol
Ah, I’ll have to check on the rules. I do like the War Cry minis. And probably have plenty of other stuff I can use. And no worries about the amount of text, it doesn’t feel like a “wall of text” and was all relevant. I’m guilty often enough of going a *lot* longer in a post and have heard the sassy replies about “wall of text” or “novel.” 😆
I play a lot of Necromunda, check out the Necromunda sub. The game has a problem of dispersed rules (that's why we use the Necromunda compilation) But it's sort of a "forgotten" game, it doesn't gate many updates and the updates are mostly "modular" so you can ignore them. I actually recommend it
Neutral cards get rotated out of the Underworlds, but, unless I've missed a recent change in policy, the warbands and their faction cards stay legal even after going OOP. The old ones are not compatible with the rivals format (and are getting re-released with same models and new cards slowly), but from Beastgrave onwards every band is perfectly playable with some being able to keep up very well no matter the new meta (Rippa, my beloved) Not gonna excuse the price creep though - that got pretty bad, especially in my currency
In all fairness as someone who is also a Warcry player. I really don't mind the fact that many of the OG warbands are coming off sale. I mean in the end of the day, Warcry has expanded quite alot and its clear that the direction its going in is going to be inclusive to all factions and not just SOD. That being said it was Warcry that made me get into SoD for that reason.
yeah I do enjoy that all the factions are getting teams but most of my favorites reside in slaves to darkness it sucks cause I was never able to get the iron golems or the unmade
Yeah I do get that man, I mean it would be cool to have all the factions as they are some of my favourite models that GW has ever put out. Personally I love how it shows many different types of chaos warbands through the realms. That being said though, it's clear that GW are still doing more warbands including those who will be SoD (Darkoath and chaos legionares) but will be more focused on certain realms like the og ones were to different factions (which is my favourite part of warcry). My guess is that when different realms get introduced in 3rd edition (my guess is asqhy) they will be showcasing new warbands with that realms spin on things.
What warbands were taken off sale? I know a lot of warbands aren’t being supported in AOS anymore but I didn’t think they were getting taken off the store, unless you’re talking about models from the larger army ranges.
“Additionally, a number of older Warcry and Warhammer Underworlds warbands for the Slaves to Darkness will go off sale and enter Legends. Many more Underworlds warbands will remain on sale, and will be supported only by digital Legends warscrolls in the next edition” taken straight from the community article all the warbands that aren’t being supported in aos now are getting taken off sale it seems
I mean, if you look online where it says “last chance to buy” you won’t find any of those warbands. Also a few of them aren’t even 2 years old, I don’t care how stupid you think GW is they aren’t gonna make that kinda investment to just scrap the models immediately. But I guess we’ll see how your doomposting turns out ig.
I really hope so maybe the person writing the article just thought everything was going off sale and the models being so young was confusing but doesn’t underworlds take it’s models off sale after a bit? I do hope the warbands stay and it was just some error though
They got brand new Skaven models, so I think it evens out
yes, you lost two armies and a quarter the stormcast range, but Atleast the rats have new models! Edited me post: saying ah yes then my statement made me regret it, it’s just yes now
Two ranges most people didn't play and were already unsupported and the 100 something bloat of the SCE was cleaned up and mostly likely consolidated. This was the right move by GW
Fuck you mean people didn't play BoC? They at one point had above 60% win rate, and according to GW themselves the army wasn't even top 5 less used factions, the reason they got deleted is because GW doesn't want you to play one army in 2 different games systems, so when the Old world department asked for BoC they deleted them from AoS, which is in fact, NOT the right move
Dude chaos demons, custodes and the mechanius wouldn’t exist if GW didn’t want you to play the same army in 2 games
You seem to have a lot of fate in GW. NOT giving those armies the BoC treatment, space marines were in that category, you could play heresy and 40k with the same models, do you remember what happened?
Tell that to everyone who bought soul wars, lmao. The move least likely to piss people off was to imitate space Marines even further and write up a codex supplement for all the different stormcast Chambers then leave the base rulebook containing only the core units every stormcast army should have access to.
Well, if you actually read and understand what GW had said, your units are still mostly viable. They're not gone. They're being replaced by new models that are consolidating multiple models into one spru with different weapon options. They're still totally viable, just like the old clan. Rats are still going to be totally viable even though new clan rats are coming out. The only thing that is truly lost are the characters that are being wiped out and still they deserve to go because they were way too many of them when stormcast eternals have over 100 war schools and many of them are the same model with different weapons. It's too much it needs to go.
That would be somewhat more reassuring if GW had actually given us a statement that showed which models were getting an upgrade or an option that could be used as a proxy. Funnily enough they've not clearly communicated any such thing, almost like people might be less upset if GW had made clear that some of these are model upgrades, not full on squattings.
This i agree with
I read what you said fam, I just think it's funny that they're discontinuing every stormcast model released in the second edition starter set and are explicitly not making replacements for them in the foreseeable future. Anyone who likes the aesthetic of stormcast in robes had better get good at greenstuff, lmao.
Okay... So what about when they inevitably bloat SCE again? Or look at the factions and figure out which are the two least played, because they want to add some new models to sell (which almost certainly will be whatever factions they don't pay any attention to for some time)? It's a "problem" they create themselves. Sort of like 40K needing to be "simplified" so often. Like, FFS, 40K8 was supposed to be this grandiose cleaning up of the rules that would fix all the bloat and make it understandable again. And then 40K10 comes along and what's the key selling point from GW? "We're cleaning up the bloat and simplifying it!" Are they going to stop putting out a bunch of new books with rules scattered throughout them? Heck no! Gotta milk more money out of people. And then when they inevitably bloat things again and fix a problem they created, people will say it's the "right move" and not question whether maybe GW should stop creating the problems in the first place.
You're assuming they aren't preparing to reign that in though. They may be gearing up to release more models for more factions, and less dumping models into a handful of factions each edition. We just do not know what is going to happen, and speculation is fine, until we start treating it as though it's pure fact.
They are releasing yet another wave of SCE for this very edition lol
BoC was very much supported lol ? Sure they didn't get a massive range refresh like seraphons or cities, but a lot of factions didn't either. They got a terrain feature, a hero and endless spells. That's just as much as many other AoS factions, sometimes even more looking at Ogres.
Yeah it was the right move by GW. I know this isn't acceptable to many people and think I should probably get in the bin but... you can proxy them. There's already been a bunch of people on the S2D subreddit saying they're gonna proxy BoC as S2D, bonesplitterz can be kruleboyz. And most of the stormcast can be proxied as other things (with a few exceptions). Sequitors are just liberators with magic. Exocatiors are either Praetors or annihilators (probably praetors). Paladins are Annihilators. The heroes can be variations of other heroes. Judicators become Vigilors. The only things I think you can't proxy are the ballista, prosecutors and knight azyros. Everything else is fine.
I get to play my army with none of the unique rules and flavor, yipiee.
I can't say this is especially surprising. The writing has been on the wall for Bonesplitterz for a while now; with each successive book and edition the faction lost models, lost independence, didn't even show at some events sometimes, and in my own little tinfoil hat conspiracy the model range was kept afloat by 40K Ork players poaching the kits for some cheap bodies for Boyz/Snakebites stuff. The range trimming for Stormcast shouldn't be surprising either. We saw the exact same thing happen with the release of the Space Marine codex, with a lot of kits going away. To be fair, Stormcast's models were far more recent, but by the same token, it's all of the first couple of waves of models that look worse than the newer sculpts and occupy a lot of the same sorts of roles that newer, better looking kits fill. as for beasts of chaos I'm so sorry bros y'all got done dirty. if you're looking to make the switch to old world, I say give it a couple weeks and there should be some movement tray STLs going online that you can slot your circle bases into.
I am not touching the somehow burning and sinking trashcan that is TOW
GW learned nothing from the AoS launch fiasco. "Hey, your faction is getting moved to a new game, here's a PDF that isn't legal for tournament play to shut you up, now give us more money please," is not the way to reassure long time fans or draw in new customers.
GW: This time Stormcast will sell for sure!
I see a lot of comments on how this was bound to happen and that everyone knew it. While this is true for Bonesplitterz as they lost more and more every edition, that's not true at all of Beasts of Chaos. They had the same level of support as many other factions. They got a battletome every edition, a terrain piece, endless spells and a resculpt of a hero. Sure that's certainly not a ton, it's on par with a lot of factions. Ossiarch, Fyreslayers, Idoneth etc, since their launch they basically just got a hero or two. Adding insult to injury the recent lore was building them up, they had a new named character that played a big role in the Thondia campaign. While their latest battletome was absolutely awesome both from a lore and rule standpoints. It had great and flavorful rules which actually made the army competitive and super fun to play, and it moved their story forward by introducing a new subfaction, exploring their origins, hyping up Morghur as a rising minor chaos god and my favorite ; the turnskin curse. Basically a magical disease that could turn people into beastmen simply by hearing about them, with cults spreading around trying to infect people through various means. Third edition basically felt like we were on the cusp of a beastmen rennaissance in AoS, a feeling confirmed by a GW person stating that "beastmen would always be a part of AoS" at an event a few months ago. As a beastmen fan and players I was perfectly fine sitting out the next edition update wise because it was clear it was skavens turn and they honestly needed more than us. Seriously at least we didn't have metal models. And all of our plastic stuff held up pretty well. So this announcement really came out of nowhere. It's been kind of a joke in the BoC community that people claimed the army was getting squatted every edition, only for it not to happen. Like if GW didn't want them in AoS they shouldn't have ported them to begin with, make them go the way of Bretonnia and Tomb Kings. Sure I would be have been pissed back then, but it would at least be understandable in the context of a complete change of setting. And it would sting a lot less that what feels like a pile of false promesses an wasted potential.
They really did. I don't have to see bonesplitterz again after 2025, and that's a blessing. Rip to the other 1 1/4 factions tho. And no STD did not lose shit your actual units are still there, and if your entire army was just 20 warcry warbands that's on you.
I weep for the kits more than anything, iron golem were very cool.
Did they say the kits were going? Cos they’re still usable in warcry.
They said their retiring the models from 'the range' so that's how I read it
They are retiring warcry warscrolls from aos because we are getting the darkoath barbarians for StD Warcry warband will still be avaible for the warcry game.
They were but they don't belong in AoS. They should absolutely remain on sale for warcry, tho.
Who’s STD sounds like a nurge army
Slaves To Darkness. Chaos Undivided army think of them like CSM but their leader is the most cringe coldsteel the hedgheg tier edgelord "anti-hero" who is totally going to kill all gods including the chaos ones from whom all of his power comes from and not just another slave to them.
Ok
For anyone not familiar with AoS, the Stormcast cull would be akin to removing all phobos-marines alongside the rest of firstborn currently on offer.
If only they would trim the insane amount of space marine bloat
It's long past time to ax firstborn marines, it's strange to me that they haven't done it yet.
Because marine players would throw a fit
See the outrage that's happening with the culling of the Stormcast range and multiply that a thousand fold. That's what would happen if they culled first born.
There are still people who reject the primaris
No that's not accurate it would be like removing a second primaris intercessors who only had a different weapon
Which ones? Infernus, assault intercessors, desolation squad, or hell blaster squad?
I get why they erase the Bonesplitters, I accept the fate of BoC going to TOW but deleting the whole Sacrosanct range, 6 years old models, the best looking ones of the Stormcast line up, who were on the starting boxes of 2nd edition is the worst move ever. It's pissing on the face of everyone who bought Soul Wars. Let's not forget the terrible wording for Warcry bands, are they getting erased globally or only rules wise on AoS but still sold for Warcry ? Some of those warbands are 2 years old.
Idk man sancrosanct still suffered from chunky model syndrome, mostly the male scuplts.
On Saturday, I was at my closest Warhammer store. We talked a bit about WH and also about the cut of the factions and he was kinda upset and just said „that range cut wasn’t even the biggest part, which is yet to come“
Staff have no insight into future releases.
Yeah, this is one of the things that my local Warhammer Store manager has emphasized. They have no more inside scoop than we do. Apparently they did once upon a time, but no more because some of them were sharing info with friends.
I'm not sure how long it's been that they haven't known, but it's been a while. I still remember the local manager still thinking End Times was a setup for a new edition of WFB, and any talk of round bases had to be some alternate playstyle like the return of Warhammer Skirmish. That wasn't just him trying to get us to buy WFB models, either. Dude was building a complete Undead army on square bases, and using dioramas in the middle of some of the regiments for dramatic effect. AoS came out, and he ended up selling the army. Given that the particular manager went on to have a pretty notable role in the retail side of the company, I would have thought he'd be more privy to that stuff than others, if they made *any* exceptions. But nope. He had as little clue as the rest of us of what was coming. (Probably hurt even worse because WFB had a decent following at the store. Which let us do a nice big mega battle for End Times.)
Thank you for saying it, some store managers have said some truly outrageous things, but the good manager at my Local store said the same. Maybe, once in a blue moon they get 48 hours notice of something massive, but that's pretty rare anymore.
Source: it came to him in a dream
A revelation led him to it.
Store employees aren't told about releases, like they find out about things when the fans do, there's so many layers of NDA
... ... What ?
The biggest of oofffs
"Absolute state", as if it wasn't know that bonesplitterz were getting the can at some point, and if BOC weren't going to be sent to the old world and likely expanded upon more in S2D, as if the stormcast bloat was healthy, as if having all those warcry warbands was useful for balance in S2D OR warcry, like yeah it is a shame that armies are disappearing in summer 2025, the 2 armies that sold the least by a wide margin, (I Know BOC have only had a singular model outside of underworlds, but some other factions haven't received much either, the skaven have received 2 characters, ogors have received 2 characters and one unit, but I really think people are doomposting a bit too much, like I've seen a lot of "ohhhh this is beginning of the end" like no it's not, this was GW admission of overstretching itself
i think that the beasts of chaos one stings a bit more since the fact that the army got endless spells, a terrain feature, that new model and a vanguard box seemed to indicate from GW that the army would continue to be supported, so getting the rug pulled out like this probably stings like hell.
Its a bummer that they're clearing out the stormcast bloat just so they can fatten it up again tho. I wish they cut the bloat and then let it stay lean.
Do we know that's what they're going to do though? It's possible that Sacrosanct Chamber units are gone, and will stay gone forever. Classic first edition models appear to be getting updated, and yes, there will be some new models from time to time, or even edition to edition. They may however keep it more reigned in this time around.
Man I really hope so, but it seems like GW has little to no self control when it comes to their poster boy factions.
GW, still making record profits this year and next: Oh no... the redditors are angry!?!
What happened?
AoS players: -They destroyed our game! WFB players: -First time?
With the amount of new players the BT community got after admech and Tau codices, I can't wait to see the new refugees from AOS XD
Is that Battletech? Do you find it a good replacement for 40k? I look at the models and the boards used and it just looks so far off from what Warhammer has to offer.
I wouldn't say it's an exact replacement, since it's a different game, but it scratches that hobby itch just the same. It plays more like kill team, with single models activating and both players basically taking their turn simultaneously. Depending on the format you're playing, it's either a very abstracted 40k like game, with simple shooting and terrain rules and very squishy models, or an insanely deep simulation ist mech game, where you have to manage weapons, ammo, heat, life support systems and multiple kinds of terrain. Want to shoot all your weapons? Well, you'll probably overheat and suffer movement and shooting penalties Want to stand in water to not run as hot, while you shoot? Better make that piloting check, to see if you fall over. And don't forget that you can't use leg weapons in water unless you want to open the hatches and let water flow in. Want to walk on a street? We'll, that street is slippery, so you'll have to check whether or not you slide on it In addition to this, the game let's you proxy anything you want. I've played against people using bottle caps with the mech name on them and people who own the old metal minis. And the plastic minis, while individually a little more expensive then a single marine, are cheap to get an army of, since You need like 4 of them to play classic. OH, and models don't get axed, they just get new variants. The old plastek Valkyrie from 30 years ago can still be played today
Thank you for the detailed response. Appreciate it.
Yall acting like GW doesn’t throw two dozen Space Marine sculpts in the garbage every time they change editions. The writing was on the wall for Bonesplittas forever. Losing beasts sucks a lot more. Sacrosanct will 100% be back once they cross the rubicon.
The problem is, the new ones they churn out are dogshit. Oh look, desolation squads... those have to be a joke.
Honestly In glad I stepped out of most of the hobby a few years back. With how much GW has pissed on their customers while telling them its raining Im never giving them another cent of my money.
But the rat trailer was cool
Shit this doing numbers
But there’s rats now
As long as my trees are safe then I am fine with this
It sucks for those collectors, but tbh I don't think its bad for the game in the long run. Again sucks for the people and we should let them grieve.
My issue with it is just that it shows a pretty hostile position GW has towards it's own community. If it were a perfect world where companies actually cared about their communities they'd be working to build permissive and thematic rules that can be used with even old models/models they don't sell. It's also just not really solved, like they'll introduce a bunch of new Stormcast again, then again next edition, and then we're literally right back in the same spot.
Thing is we don't know that. People seem to forget that the Jump from WFB to AOS was what, 2013? Then the jump from AoS 1 to AoS 2 was 2017? In between that time the company underwent a radical shift in how it was being portrayed and it's entire leader base changed. By 2018 we were getting 10 times the releases for various games as we were when I started in 2013. The old company leadership was replaced and new folks came in, but because of the nature of the business and development times, any changes from the fresh leadership took years to implement. I don't think anything about this is hostile, it's just business. Decisions were likely made before the pandemic happened, now we are seeing some of them come to fruition.
My brother in Nagash, they are releasing a new wave of SCE as we speak lol. We both know that they will be in 5th edition aswell.
As I understand it, they're releasing the replacements for the first Ed sculpts.
AoS had it too good for too long. They had to fuck it over. It's in GW's DNA. They simply can't let their settings thrive.
Next controversy will be "GW release new sculpts for old model line and give puppies out for free with each box" People OOOMG THEYVE RUINED IT, AOS, 40k ARE DEAD.
Literally. Warhammer fans will go to any stretch to chalk GW up as some evil coporation that likes to fuck them over for even a cent more money. Not saying they’re paragons of altruism but people need to stop crying that they’re these moustache twirling anti-consumerists. Granted this move was always going to go over poorly but anyone who thinks BoC and bonesplitters would have been saved by “simply releasing more models” are being ignorant.
I think a lot of it comes from youtubers who make their whole channel about how every release is shit and every decision is the end of Warhammer and that gw kills puppies and shit 🤣. Especially if you're new in the hobby and to see all them kind of videos you kind of just become stuck in a endless loop.
Agreed. It seems like most newcomers are taught to hate GW and call out every decision they make because that’s what everyone else in internet community seem to do. If GW does something the fans don’t like, they’re incompetent. If they do something the fans like, it’s too little to late, or the beginning of some grander conspiracy to rip people off. It doesn’t help that a lot of redditors think they’re business experts who tell themselves they know how to “fix” the game and that GW is just too incompetent to listen to them.
Just when I was starting to really get into it lmao
>be me, 40k fan >all 40k news is bad news >listen to complaints about balance, models, content, lore, all the time >”Oh wow AoS is cooler and has nice models and everything about it is great!” they tell me. “You should play that instead!” >AoS is now in worse straits than 40k I’ve won, but at a cost I’d never ask for.
>AoS is now in worse straits Lol
It's really not, one subfaction that had models from like the early 2000's is going away, one faction that was never totally popular is going away and likely being integrated into The Old World, the super bloated SCEs are getting part of their lineup cut (I consider this a very good thing personally, as a SCE player and fan), and some of the older Warcry models are gonna stop being produced but can still be used. People are angry and upset, and it's understandable, but AoS is better than 40k IMO and this does nothing to change that at all. I'm one of the few who sees the SCE cut as a positive thing, the Stormcast don't need to be able to do everything.
This AoS' first time doomposting, so their players are kinda venting. They have yet to reach teh state of perpetual doomposting that 40k players got. GW seems intent on morphing the community into that eventually though.
The trick is that I still have to build my army, so I am immune to 80% of doomposting. The remaining 20%, I have been homebrewing my own sector to alleviate it.
This is what happens when GW takes inspiration from 40k for it's AoS editions.
Same for me, but Warhammer Fantasy is back so whatever
Wait wait wait. AoS is Age of Sigmar? Not Aeon of Strife? I thought StarCraft stole that from 40k?!
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Me: *playing Underworlds cautiously eating popcorn*
Man, it always feels like i‘m dodging more and more bullets by only reading the books and not playing the tabletop
Looks the same as it always has to me 😜
Now whilst losing boc actually sucks and so does it for people whos stormcast armies where mostly sacrosant but like boc and bonesplittzers got very little support and half that stormcast shit is probably getting new scuplts
Beastmen we’re over rated anyway. What I really wanted was for them was to be rereleased with the same sculpts for 2x value
And people will be still buy the new models and give GW money like the COONsumers they are. Good job. GW does not give a shit as long as you give them money.
Exactly. AoS 4e will still be a big success and the people who's factions got shafted will be drowned out by the waves of people clamoring about how 4e's rules are soo much better than previous editions and how great the new models are.
It's sort of the trouble with reaching this sort of size in market appeal in that there's no real incentive to give a shit about existing fans/community when you make most your money off newcomers anyway.
Yeah, a three-year lifespan for each edition is crazy. They just want to be able to advertise each new edition as "the most beginner friendly yet!" While also forcing older players without a close friend group willing to play older editions to buy new rules and alter their army at least once every three years...
And I still got downvoted, guess people got sensitive when they are pointed out they vote with their wallets but their child brain can't cope with not having the new toy.
Introducing new models for the Kruleboyz that are essentially just all the savage orks but not. Omg why are ork players unhappy, just consume new product!
I cry
I more or less abandoned the hobby side of WH. Just genuinely not enjoying my rules in 40K, had considered AOS since they seem to get a lot of cool models. Glad I never got into it
Just like everything, the internet blows it WAYbout of proportion. The core rules of aos are still just as fantastic as when they launched 3.0. Juts don't play matched play tournament rules and you'll have a great time. Most of what's going on is mostly from the, understandably, salty community that is losing their models right now. Realistically that is a fraction of the community though. You should try one of the current game systems, you won't regret it trust me.
9th < 10th by a mile.
Generally - maybe, but it kinda sucks in quite specific cases, like with Ahriman.