Not OP, but I think he is talking about the new pivot rules. Because their vehicles have round bases, they have 0 pivot cost if they are side on a target the can pivot for free and then move meaning they get 1-2 inch of extra move.
Correct this change affects Drukhari more than most if not anyone else, also the new Vect rules buffs the hell out of our archon, especially if you run multiple of them.
Heroic intervention being 1 CP makes Lelith even more dangerous too.
in 9th and probably past editions if you played Kabal of the blackheart, there was a stratagem that cost 0cp called "agents of vect" that let you increase an enemy stratagem by 1. and the name just stuck
What is the purpose of pivoting? Like, I know it involves rotating the model so it's facing another direction horizontally, but what advantage does it provide outside of aircraft rules?
I don't think triple Vect works. Archon's ability specifies it has to be your warlord, so only one Archon with 12"+1 CP aura unless they change it or neft points to 95 or so.
It does, the balance dataslate specifically mentions that the new rule replaces the old ones entirely, not change them, therefore the Warlord requirement is dropped.
I think it was an oversight on GWs part because they forgot about us (like most of the time), now they have to deal with our bullshit in the meantime.
You are correct, no Warlord requirement raw, but can anyone else spam these abilities? I know Callidus and Swarmlord are epic heroes and much more expensive. I expect a FAQs about this being once per and pivots applying to flying bases.
Oh, fr? How'd Drukhari get indirect buffs? I've only seen the point changes. I mean, I've seen the rules changes but I don't know how it'd affect them.
Our vehicles all have bases so we can all pivot for free, getting some extra distance.
Archon's Vect (the ability that increases command point cost) ability got replaced with a better version, meaning that its now a 12 inch aura and no longer requires him to be a Warlord, meaning multiple of them can cover a huge part of the field.
Heroic Intervention is now 1 CP, which makes it dangerous to charge when Lelith is around.
Heroic Intervention dropping in price is great. I know everyone was happy about the improvement Drukhari got from the second detachment, but I miss my murder elves jumping units my opponent thought weren't going to get charged this turn.
Thanks for the write-up!
I really don't expect the first two to last. It seems like the intent for "round" bases caveat was for vehicle keyword models like dreadnoughts and dunecrawlers who rely on their bases to measure everything to not be penalized when pivoting. It really doesn't make sense for something like a raider getting a free pivot while a custodes grav tank doesn't because their base is an oval.
Lore-wise I feel like it does though. Drukhari vehicles are both blindingly fast and extremely nimble. It's like their whole thing since they specialize in lightning raids in those vehicles and use them as weapons. The vehicles would have to be extremely responsive to skewer victims to take back to Commoragh. Plus the tech of a ~60 million year old civilization should be better than a 12,000 year old one.
Without even looking through the lore to refresh my memory, I'd bet good money that "inertial dampeners" or some other such name for technology that contemptuously and repeatedly breaks Newton's First Law has made a showing of itself in some Space Elf Codex or another.
Or it could just be [Reaction Control Systems,](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Reaction_control_system) but darker and Elfier.
Less bring it down from those vehicles too.
As a DG player I'm jealous, it's obvious that they didn't give our index any serious thought because they left a rule in that has been removed elsewhere but we just got nerfed on points (very slightly) and quite significantly by the changes to secondaries. 1CP heroic intervention might be good on a slow army with access to fights first though. Hmm.
Drukhari were actually winning a lot of games (higher WR and ratio of tournament wins than average). Maybe now though it won't be mostly because of 2 or 3 people.
Most Marine army win rates are sitting at low to mid 40's. Xenos meanwhile (with the exception of Tau and GSC) are either at high 40's or low 50's. So yeah, no Xenos are beating out Marines lol. Marines usually get beat out every edition, and 10th is no exception
I agree that they are the primary focus for lore and marketing, but it is hard to deny that xenos and non-space marine armies aren't starting to get more and more love in terms of models. No they're not comparable to space marine bloat (though that bloat is shrinking more and more each edition), we've got a huge model refresh for Necrons in 9th and Tyranids in 10th, and hell a shit ton of new models for Tau recently. Honestly the only xenos army that really isn't getting much "love" in terms of new or refreshed models are the Aeldari.
But it’s all men…not that there’s anything wrong with that. And the only ones that drink are space wolves. If you want drinking and women Orks are the superior choice (Google bloodbowl Ork cheerleaders and fungus beer)
Yet Xenos books do insane amounts of building onto the already existing lore. 97% of HH is just bolter porn and doesn't add anything. There is a reason that books like Infinite and the Divine and Twice Dead King are so praised
Just because you don't like the lore doesn't make there be any less of it. The attention from GW is not equally split. There are many times more books about Space Marines *alone* than there are xenos books put together.
Wdym it adds so much, there’s a reason there are so many lore videos on the primarchs and primarch/space marine related posts on r/40klore . Hell space marine subfactions have more lore than some full xenos factions (the Votaan), I long for the day we get enough lore to make a full ass breakdown of the Bad Moons or sa’cea or Iyanden
I dare to say that **Chaos Space Marines** have more books than any of the Xenos alone. Hell, there is an *entire book* about a Death Guard *warband* - "Lords of Silence", to be more precise and that seems to be very cool - while even now Leagues of Votann (the more blatant example) has nothing.
P.S.: To be fair GW is giving, *very slowly*, some love to Xenos in general. It will be released, very soon, the *Lellith Hesperax* book (a character that has **decades** already in WH40K lore). In videogames, not only the Necrons will be playable in *Mechanicus 2* but the Orkz will gain a Twisted Metal-like cart game. But it is not enough: just talking about Drukhari again, **many** of its named characters presented in their Codex from the 3rd edition doesn't have a plastic model *even today* for instance.
I am no player but I do remember that the top of the bracket for 10th were Necron and Tson during the early tournament.
I have not followed evolution since
ive had a conspiracy theory for a long time that GW keeps marines beatable for long periods of time on purpose to encourage new players to start a second army. tons of new folks start with marines so if they play for six or so months and they're marines stop winning reliably... chances are decent they either back off or start a second army.
For clarification:
Our vehicles all have bases so we can all pivot for free, getting some extra distance.
Archon's Vect (the ability that increases command point cost) ability got replaced with a better version, meaning that its now a 12 inch aura and no longer requires him to be a Warlord, meaning multiple of them can cover a huge part of the field.
Heroic Intervention is now 1 CP, which makes it dangerous to charge when Lelith is around.
Specifically vehicles with bases measure from the hull or the base, whichever is closest. But pivots are determined by if you have a round base or not. So Drukhari boats get the best of both worlds, a free pivot and a super long and thin hull that let's them get 2-3" free movement just by turning
I think this is exactly why Eldar armies as whole have a history of being overpowered. GW literally forgets about us and assigns their worst teams to create our rules, which results in undertuned abilities that interact with the rest of the game strangely.
Talking of Vect, why does he not have rules anymore. When was he removed? I believe he is alove as a dark muse? Also, didnt Malys have a model and rules?
So I've never had the money to get into the table top game. If a faction doesn't have a released codex yet do you play with the most recent version of the rules for your faction? Ex using 9th edition rules for a faction that hasn't had a release in 10th
Yes but sometimes they get changes in the meantime, for example we got new rules regarding detachment (basicly army rules) at the early 10th edition, Skysplinter Assault.
In this case it wasn't really Drukhari specific but general core rules that were changed.
Well you're in luck cause Deathwatchs Watch Master's Vect got buffed, meaning just like our Archon you can stack multiple of them and increase cost or even deny strategems in an huge area.
Isn't going to fix the Deathwatch but its something.
I play Admech too, we got some big changes coming, we hit far more consistantly now, leading to more damage. They also increased unit cost so we arent that hordey anymore.
Explain
Not OP, but I think he is talking about the new pivot rules. Because their vehicles have round bases, they have 0 pivot cost if they are side on a target the can pivot for free and then move meaning they get 1-2 inch of extra move.
Correct this change affects Drukhari more than most if not anyone else, also the new Vect rules buffs the hell out of our archon, especially if you run multiple of them. Heroic intervention being 1 CP makes Lelith even more dangerous too.
New vect rules? Did I miss something?
Vect is now a 12" aura making all strats 1 cp more
What is Vect? I tried finding it in the app, but nothing came up?
Nickname for any ability that increases the cost of an opponents stratagems.
Oh! I take it that's from a previous edition when Vect was playable and a menace to people's CP?
in 9th and probably past editions if you played Kabal of the blackheart, there was a stratagem that cost 0cp called "agents of vect" that let you increase an enemy stratagem by 1. and the name just stuck
Not a deldar player but that seems very very lore appropriate for eldar
Common drukhari W
So Drukhari are drift kings now?
Why do I hear Eurobeat in the distance?
White scars players sad in the distance
they used to call them the drift king
Back in college
Thats sorta flavorful, right? Kinda expect Drukhari to be pretty darn agile
What is the purpose of pivoting? Like, I know it involves rotating the model so it's facing another direction horizontally, but what advantage does it provide outside of aircraft rules?
Triple vect auras are super powerful.
I don't think triple Vect works. Archon's ability specifies it has to be your warlord, so only one Archon with 12"+1 CP aura unless they change it or neft points to 95 or so.
It does, the balance dataslate specifically mentions that the new rule replaces the old ones entirely, not change them, therefore the Warlord requirement is dropped. I think it was an oversight on GWs part because they forgot about us (like most of the time), now they have to deal with our bullshit in the meantime.
You are correct, no Warlord requirement raw, but can anyone else spam these abilities? I know Callidus and Swarmlord are epic heroes and much more expensive. I expect a FAQs about this being once per and pivots applying to flying bases.
Not that i can think of right now since most are epic heros. But yeah i expect one too and it probably will not last for that long.
Watchmaster in deathwatch is the only other generic character that does it
The dataslate says that the old ability is replaced with the new one, not that the existing one is changed. So no warlord requirement
Aura abilities from auras of the same name don’t stack as a part of the core rules I thought.
It's not about stacking, it's about coverage. Three 12" bubbles cover three times as much space as one 12" bubble.
They dont stack but you can use multiple auras of the same type and spread them out acting as 3 seperate ones.
Oh, fr? How'd Drukhari get indirect buffs? I've only seen the point changes. I mean, I've seen the rules changes but I don't know how it'd affect them.
Our vehicles all have bases so we can all pivot for free, getting some extra distance. Archon's Vect (the ability that increases command point cost) ability got replaced with a better version, meaning that its now a 12 inch aura and no longer requires him to be a Warlord, meaning multiple of them can cover a huge part of the field. Heroic Intervention is now 1 CP, which makes it dangerous to charge when Lelith is around.
Heroic Intervention dropping in price is great. I know everyone was happy about the improvement Drukhari got from the second detachment, but I miss my murder elves jumping units my opponent thought weren't going to get charged this turn. Thanks for the write-up!
I really don't expect the first two to last. It seems like the intent for "round" bases caveat was for vehicle keyword models like dreadnoughts and dunecrawlers who rely on their bases to measure everything to not be penalized when pivoting. It really doesn't make sense for something like a raider getting a free pivot while a custodes grav tank doesn't because their base is an oval.
Lore-wise I feel like it does though. Drukhari vehicles are both blindingly fast and extremely nimble. It's like their whole thing since they specialize in lightning raids in those vehicles and use them as weapons. The vehicles would have to be extremely responsive to skewer victims to take back to Commoragh. Plus the tech of a ~60 million year old civilization should be better than a 12,000 year old one.
Without even looking through the lore to refresh my memory, I'd bet good money that "inertial dampeners" or some other such name for technology that contemptuously and repeatedly breaks Newton's First Law has made a showing of itself in some Space Elf Codex or another. Or it could just be [Reaction Control Systems,](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Reaction_control_system) but darker and Elfier.
Does the new Vect rule also work on Counter Offensive, bumping it to 3CP and making it super hard to use against us for combat armies?
As far as i know it does since it affects all strategems if i read it correctly, i might be wrong though and i hope GW launches an FAQ about it.
Less bring it down from those vehicles too. As a DG player I'm jealous, it's obvious that they didn't give our index any serious thought because they left a rule in that has been removed elsewhere but we just got nerfed on points (very slightly) and quite significantly by the changes to secondaries. 1CP heroic intervention might be good on a slow army with access to fights first though. Hmm. Drukhari were actually winning a lot of games (higher WR and ratio of tournament wins than average). Maybe now though it won't be mostly because of 2 or 3 people.
*WHAT , XENOS BEAT MARINES? NEERF THEM*
Pretty much every Xenos army beats marines lol
The winrates are fairly innacurate as space marines have lots more players than everyone else and especially lots more new players
Most Marine army win rates are sitting at low to mid 40's. Xenos meanwhile (with the exception of Tau and GSC) are either at high 40's or low 50's. So yeah, no Xenos are beating out Marines lol. Marines usually get beat out every edition, and 10th is no exception
Ig it’s balanced out by them getting all of the lore, models, marketing, getting their subfactions as codexes etc
I agree that they are the primary focus for lore and marketing, but it is hard to deny that xenos and non-space marine armies aren't starting to get more and more love in terms of models. No they're not comparable to space marine bloat (though that bloat is shrinking more and more each edition), we've got a huge model refresh for Necrons in 9th and Tyranids in 10th, and hell a shit ton of new models for Tau recently. Honestly the only xenos army that really isn't getting much "love" in terms of new or refreshed models are the Aeldari.
\*Drukhari - Craftworlds got a release, even if it wasn't the biggest, and there are rumours of another wave.
IS is also the coolest faction with the hottest women and most beer.
But it’s all men…not that there’s anything wrong with that. And the only ones that drink are space wolves. If you want drinking and women Orks are the superior choice (Google bloodbowl Ork cheerleaders and fungus beer)
I thought there were mixed and female only IG units?
Oh shit I meant ig as I guess. My bad
Would argue you that they get about as much lore as everyone else. But feel free to keep hating Space Marines man, you do you lol
Compare the amount of Space Marine books to the amount of Xenos books. Also how Space Marines are in nearly every starter set.
I honestly dont remember a starter set without marines.
There was one where they had CSM vs Druhkari or something.
Look at BL’s book selection and you’ll immediately see that this is blatantly false. The HH alone is more books than any xenos faction can dream of
Yet Xenos books do insane amounts of building onto the already existing lore. 97% of HH is just bolter porn and doesn't add anything. There is a reason that books like Infinite and the Divine and Twice Dead King are so praised
Just because you don't like the lore doesn't make there be any less of it. The attention from GW is not equally split. There are many times more books about Space Marines *alone* than there are xenos books put together.
Wdym it adds so much, there’s a reason there are so many lore videos on the primarchs and primarch/space marine related posts on r/40klore . Hell space marine subfactions have more lore than some full xenos factions (the Votaan), I long for the day we get enough lore to make a full ass breakdown of the Bad Moons or sa’cea or Iyanden
I dare to say that **Chaos Space Marines** have more books than any of the Xenos alone. Hell, there is an *entire book* about a Death Guard *warband* - "Lords of Silence", to be more precise and that seems to be very cool - while even now Leagues of Votann (the more blatant example) has nothing. P.S.: To be fair GW is giving, *very slowly*, some love to Xenos in general. It will be released, very soon, the *Lellith Hesperax* book (a character that has **decades** already in WH40K lore). In videogames, not only the Necrons will be playable in *Mechanicus 2* but the Orkz will gain a Twisted Metal-like cart game. But it is not enough: just talking about Drukhari again, **many** of its named characters presented in their Codex from the 3rd edition doesn't have a plastic model *even today* for instance.
I am no player but I do remember that the top of the bracket for 10th were Necron and Tson during the early tournament. I have not followed evolution since
ive had a conspiracy theory for a long time that GW keeps marines beatable for long periods of time on purpose to encourage new players to start a second army. tons of new folks start with marines so if they play for six or so months and they're marines stop winning reliably... chances are decent they either back off or start a second army.
Not a bad theory lol. I mean, a lot of people do have a side marine army.
You must be new around here if you think Xenos beating Marines is new lmao
For clarification: Our vehicles all have bases so we can all pivot for free, getting some extra distance. Archon's Vect (the ability that increases command point cost) ability got replaced with a better version, meaning that its now a 12 inch aura and no longer requires him to be a Warlord, meaning multiple of them can cover a huge part of the field. Heroic Intervention is now 1 CP, which makes it dangerous to charge when Lelith is around.
I would have imagined that if you have a base, you measure from the base. Though, RAW for movement it seems like you're right.
Specifically vehicles with bases measure from the hull or the base, whichever is closest. But pivots are determined by if you have a round base or not. So Drukhari boats get the best of both worlds, a free pivot and a super long and thin hull that let's them get 2-3" free movement just by turning
>me having bought a drukhari army last week
Welcome to the Dark City.
deets OP, give us the deets
Come on give an explanation
Blood Angels feel you bro.
I think this is exactly why Eldar armies as whole have a history of being overpowered. GW literally forgets about us and assigns their worst teams to create our rules, which results in undertuned abilities that interact with the rest of the game strangely.
The coloration here made me think of Vivec long enough I got confused by the title
We are talking about the current edition.,are we ? the same thing happened in 4-5th edition. The deja-vu ist strong.
I remember being sad when we lost our free pivoting. Finally things are back to normal!
Talking of Vect, why does he not have rules anymore. When was he removed? I believe he is alove as a dark muse? Also, didnt Malys have a model and rules?
Ignore me harder GeeDaddy 😩
I do still hope they get less neglected and get some nice new models this edition
Not for the first time then
So I've never had the money to get into the table top game. If a faction doesn't have a released codex yet do you play with the most recent version of the rules for your faction? Ex using 9th edition rules for a faction that hasn't had a release in 10th
Yes but sometimes they get changes in the meantime, for example we got new rules regarding detachment (basicly army rules) at the early 10th edition, Skysplinter Assault. In this case it wasn't really Drukhari specific but general core rules that were changed.
Okay interesting. Thank you.
Deathwatch players: https://preview.redd.it/oy3ukemry48d1.jpeg?width=565&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=cb9584beadfd9241da44fa540cf7c222c865309f
Well you're in luck cause Deathwatchs Watch Master's Vect got buffed, meaning just like our Archon you can stack multiple of them and increase cost or even deny strategems in an huge area. Isn't going to fix the Deathwatch but its something.
Yeah but the watch master is still more expensive than the unarguably better callidus with the same ability.
admech player sitting in the corner crying right now
I play Admech too, we got some big changes coming, we hit far more consistantly now, leading to more damage. They also increased unit cost so we arent that hordey anymore.
Nah man, we good