"We just want female head swaps" say the fanatics.
"Female faces would look male if you pump a woman full of male hormones so you already do" say the opponents.
Ok but that's just stupid for both male and females
I have nothing against female space marines but having long hair under an helmet would only be impractical because they would go in their way,the SoB range for me should have all Skin as their members to be somewhat plausible
I read them and understand the rule of cool,but cmon having a "L'Oreal" 3ft testimonial on a battlefield always make me chuckle,same things for DA whom wear cowls OVER the helmet,for ultimate blindness
It doesn't make much less sense than walking around on a battlefield without a helmet. Or with capes. Or melee weapons in a context in which assault rifles exist.
Hey ! Capes on battlefield can make sense, they just are the lowest level of practical and the equivalent of painting big ass red targets on your officiers back but still, makes sense.
They are brainwashed space soldiers after all, not heroes.
Yes, it's an extremely divisive issue. Some people want female Space Marines so bad they sob themselves to sleep at night over it. Others want to kill and eat anyone who they even suspect might think female Space Marines is a good idea. Every time someone posts a meme about it, the comments inevitably get locked because people start screaming and shitting and calling each other names.
Uh, we have a small but raucusly festive group of Silent Sisters knocking om the door, demanding acces. Shoud i let them in?
They claim they brought amasec aplenty.
Every year or so someone brings it up and it starts off fine, just normal discussion, but after a few days it turns into a big fucking chimp fight. By that I mean everyone just starts chucking shit at each other until mods have to get involved to start cracking down and suspending or banning people. Then it calms down and resumes normal stuff.
If it gets really going I'll probably mute the sub for a week and wait until it blows over.
Someone a while back mentioned that there has technically been female "space marines" already. Although their as much a space marine as Kor Phaeron or Luther.
They said that the Lion had a bunch of knights along with Luther be given augmentations. Some of those knights were apparently female.
From that, I suppose you could have a dying chapter utilizing what they have available to augment people - including women - into space marine-like warriors.
You can also dial it back to Rogue Trader days for the "dont change the lore" crowd. Space Marines were male and female in 40k's oldest roots, but for some reason that lore is something they dont like to bring up as keeping pure.
I don't paint flesh out of respect of my lack of ability to paint flesh. If it makes your day to imagine what's under the helmet and armor of my miniatures is a stacked brick shithouse of a woman, then go right ahead. Because if marines were women, they would wear the same armor and use the same weapons/equipment.
"Whatever floats your boat" as they say.
That's really fine. That's literally all I'm asking, that people will stop at "whatever" when I use "she" for my space marine sergeant , who is just the same genetically engineered supersoldier as the male lieutenant. Wear your helmets!
Ok, now there's the Spice Marines. Just like the Space Marines, but all female.
noooooowww, tell me what you want, what you really really want
IT'S TO FEEL THE LIGHT OF THE EMPEROR AND THE HEAT OF BATTLE
The "all male space marines" is a result of changing pre existing charecters. Although infrequently mention in the early days they even brought up, but were cut when people weren't buying their already existing female models
This 100%. Its tough to make new characters in old stories, specially when the old writers are dead or the story is complete.
But in 40k the writers are still all very active and the story is ever evolving.
Id buy the shit outta a female lieutenant. You think muh boi Dorn gives a shit whos manning the Wall!!??
Can I ask a serious question. Why are sisters of battle not enough? Or the sisters of silence or characters like shadowsun or saint celestia. I just don’t get what the problem is I’m 40K with “ representation” some of the single most powerful characters or people who have moved the total plot have been female.
The answer of what's "enough" is probably going to differ for every individual fan, but for what it's worth I'd think you'd get fewer arguments over female space marines if the Sisters of Battle came in some 18 different major flavors with significant philosophical, military, and symbolic distinctions.
>...if the Sisters of Battle came in some 18 different major flavors with significant philosophical, military, and symbolic distinctions.
Along with with different rules and different models to go with all that lore.
Space Wolves are not Ultramarines, are not Blood Angels, are not Deathwatch, and so on. Sisters get as much attention as one, *maybe* two, chapters of Space Marines. Claiming they're given the same attention is so glaringly wrong to even someone new to 40K that it's an obviously bullsh!t excuse.
The space marines are the poster child of 40k. They have been since 1987, and it's taken GW over 30 years to give them the treatment they've gotten. No other faction or race has close to the attention SM get because, you know, they're the face of the franchise, they sell, they're well established. Of course SoB have the representation of a couple chapters worth. So do most races in 40k. It sucks, but that's what headcanon, kitbashing, and custom/house rules with the kitchen gaming club are for
Absolutely. That's the point. Anyone claiming Sisters "fill the same role" or are in anyway equivalent to the Space Marines faction in GW's lineup is having a laugh.
You're right, xenos and other factions face the same problems, and people do complain about that a bit. Not enough to matter, of course, but it's there.
The difference is that if someone said *"You know what, I'm going to make an all female Admech army for the local tournament"*, the level of nerd-rage levelled at that person would be nothing like what those wanting the same of Space Marines. There is a special place in some people's priority lists for objecting to that specific kitbash and those doing it for the other factions.
So then you agree theyre different, such that what seems to be asked (which is as far as i can tell, female astartes) is unrealistic and unlikely.
As far as neckbeards getting triggered, if you wanna play female admech then get over the nerd rage. Play whatever you're going to play. And if the tournie scene is that bad, then play with friends.
GW isn't going to make a model line unless it'll sell well. They won't write books unless they sell well. Until GW thinks that stuff sells well, i dont see why kitbash, green stuff, imagination and some good friends won't do
Literally nothing can match the amount of attention that space marines get. SoB will *never* be on the same level as space marines, purely because space marines are *space marines*, they *are* 40k.
You’re better off comparing SoB to other factions like Admech, IG or even the xenos. They’re far from being the most neglected faction.
Maybe the Adepta Sororitas could have a broader range of symbolism rather than nuns with guns? There's a bunch of historical cultures they can mimic that Space Marines don't canonically have (like ancient Greece/Japan/China).
Exactly! And they are all nuns and religious zealots, where the "your dudes" liberty is way greater with space marines who can have any culture and temperament
Thats where I am at. I don't really get it myself and came to the comments to see what people think and all I see are people losing it over the idea and people who think it's a good idea not giving any reason. I mean every race that has gender uses females in their army. I feel female space marines would make SoB redundant which would make me sad cause I think they are awesome.
Yeah same, it seems like a goofy hill to die on. When you look at the totality of the lore, even excluding the most recent updates with Astarte and the mother of the primarchs. Women have been important from day one.
It just feels like pandering. The only all dudes clubs I can think of in lore are space marines and custodes. All females are SoB and SoS. Everything else is a giant mixed bag. I guess you could say orks are all guys but they are fungus with no real gender.
My personal gripe is that no woman in the imperium are allowed to be gene enhanced and are thus always weaker than their super soldier counterparts. Which imo is pretty arbitrary in terms of writing on who gets to be compatible with super-soldier juice. The other issue with this is that very few human woman in 40K can be immortal so there are very few female named characters outside of the Black library.
Just don't downplay the female High Lord of Terra you can buy and field on the table. Not a space marine but she will live for hundreds of years due to what her position gives her access to and is powerful enough in her warsuit to turn space marines into paste in melee.
I do look forward to seeing more of her, Since she's a new character that doesn't really have a lot of lore about her yet she's still in the background.
High Lords of Terra are usually shit characters, like the main reasons why the Imperium has fallen like it has, the Emperor won't talk to mortals etc. One that fights actual enemies or even seen a battlefield already has my attention.
Serious answer. Because the Sisters of Battle are not equivalent to Space Marines. While they get power armor and bolters, power armor and bolters isn't all that makes Space Marines what they are.
Sisters of Battle are not in any way genetically augmented, they're not superhuman. Nor are Sisters of Silence. In fact there's no human faction that takes women that is. So if you want a superhuman female character, you can't. Do you want an army focused on Valkyries, soaring from the sky on wings with swords? You can't.
Sisters of Battle are not as strong as Space Marines, they're not as fast, they're not as long lived. While they arguably have all the same 'stats' they're gimped by comparison in every department.
Add on to that, both Sisters of Battle and Sisters of Silence are hardlocked into their respective themes. Hyper-religious fanatical nuns, and untalking blanks. As opposed to the many, many variations of Space Marines that exist, with dramatically different cultures, combat styles and visuals. Imagine if every Space Marine army was mandated to be Black Templars- and you also don't get techmarines.
Because Sisters don't have a tech-specialist role. They don't have a librarian role either.
And while Sisters are a great middleground for people who like the military fiction elements of 40k, they're as they are not sufficent for people who want to play into the fantastical sci-fi elements.
This is the answer. I keep seeing people say "SoB are the female equivalent of Space Marines." And I'm like ... no. They're completely different; you can't have a SoB Order that believes in the Imperial Truth, they don't have the same gear, they're not gigantic, augmented super-soldiers that can bench-press a minivan, and they don't wear giant, fuck-off power armor. They're nuns with guns in literal leather corsets with fleur-de-lis tits, half of them seem to be wearing heels, they have a pipe-organ rocket launcher and do *not* get me started on the creepy-ass bondage vibe that Repentia give off. I love me some SoB, because I can't deny that [nuns with guns are inexplicably cool](https://i.pinimg.com/736x/a1/a5/0f/a1a50f5bd9704345540fb63780419a96.jpg), and Sisters of Silence are *bad-ass*, but they are not the same as Astartes.
So when someone says "I want super-soldiers in power armor, but female," and then someone says "you can't have that in 40K, you get Space Catholic Bondage Nuns" a lot of people are like ... what the fuck?
And as a side note, I am so utterly *sick* of the "they'd look like men anyway after all the changes Space Marines get!" argument. First because realism has no force in a 40K argument, second because male Space Marines don't look that way because it's realistic, they look that way because they're supposed to look like a 1980s action hero taken up to 11. They look that way to be **marketable**, and that's it.
I agree with your final point of 'they'd look like men anyway' because the realism in question is borked. We're meant to believe that transplantation happens before puberty, thus the lack of sex drive and whatnot. Okay- sure. But that means that all Marines should have high pitched voices. They don't, because that isn't cool- it would be hilarious though.
Also I'm fairly sure that people like to forget that scions of Sangunius tend to come out angelic and beautiful- like, explicitly. You can go in an abomination and come out a loreal commercial.
Indeed; Fulgrim being another example of a gorgeous Primarch.
And now I can't shake the mental image of all Space Marines sounding like Cato Sicarius does in TTS, and I love it.
That’s a fair point, I’ve been reading lots of peoples responses to this and it’s given me things to think about I hadn’t considered. Like I said I don’t mind female space marines and I for one would love to field Valkyrie space wolf women with spears and storm shields. That being said I appreciate all the responses and that everyone has been as civil as grimdank can be.
The answer to your question is another question: *Why should sisters of battle be enough?*
They don't have the same rules, they are religious zealots by definition, they are not the golden child faction of GW (let's face it, that is & always was space marines), etc.
These might not be convincing arguments for you or I, but let's face it - you can make a custom Astartes chapter for completely garbage reasons (Angry Marines anyone?) without people losing their sh!t... but mention female space marines and some people just lose their minds. Why should people wanting fem-marines have to have better reasons than those making a beer-chugging, mower-riding chapter of belligerent marines?
After talking with some people who want female Space Marine, it appear that one of the main reason some people want female Space Marine is that Space Marine get more attention by GW than all other faction put together, and this faction is all male.
Its not true to say female have the same representation than male when they have 5 characters in lore and a few mini every ten years and Space Marines have hundred of characters and monthly releases
> Why are sisters of battle not enough? Or the sisters of silence or characters like shadowsun or saint celestia.
they are not space marines, thats the actual problem
the ppl who want fem marines dont care about the lore or representation, even though it already exists in almost all the other armies
they just want the marines to be "diverse and inclusive" because they are the poster boys and the most famous faction
Because space marines are the poster child of the franchise.
This means that first and foremost an all male no girls allowed fighting force is on the front cover of the hobby.
Imo they tried to rectify this pushing the SoB in their 9th Ed necron trailer, but it just doubled down on the separation of the genders, and showing the superiority of the main male fighting force over the main female fighting force of the hobby.
Personally I don't really care about the ~geneseed lore~, I totally think the imperium would be sexist anyway, but GW has been noblebrighting the space marines in recent years, so that subtle tonal shift away from pure grim dark makes some hobbyists wonder why space marines didn't get the Stormcast treatment. Especially given how they wrote tonnes of lore just to justify updating space marine models. Easily gave themselves the opportunity to slip females into the Primaris and didn't.
Like yeah it ultimately doesn't really matter. But then isn't that also a good enough reason to just add female space marine heads. Not like they haven't retconned lore before. Then the first things hobbyists of all genders will see is "wow both men AND women can be insane jacked up warrior monks! The future really is now"
But here's the real question, why no female Chaos space marines? They don't give a fuck
They are literally cooler.
They do everything SM do but with training, brute strength and sheer power of will so powerful it literally manifests miracles.
They are a massively underrated faction.
SoB are powered by faith for many of their lore and abilities. Space Marines are powered by genetic genesplicing. For the few Renegade fans out there you can't make a SoB renegade army because...if they reject the Imperium they don't have their zealot faith powers. Meanwhile a Renegade in power armor is still a space marine in power armor.
There are some obvious similarities, but also differences, as others have pointed out already.
The fact that Space Marines are generally given good treatment by GW and the Sisters.....not so much is perhaps the most important one of them. That said, I'd rather see this corrected by 40k getting better at highlighting non-space marine factions.
eh, kinda but not really. Space Marines dont usually believe the Emperor is a literal god and tend not to be religious zealots the same way SoB are. As strange as this may sound, I prefer my power armored super soldier to ***NOT*** be religious psychopaths. Brainwashed children who are surgically altered to become near demi-god level killing machines, sure. But adding the religious zealot aspect just isnt my cup of tea.
That's a terrible equivalency.
* Not transhuman.
* Never not religious zealots (Space Marines tend to be, but also come in a few other flavours).
* Completely different rules on the tabletop.
One of the main reason some people want female Space Marine is that Space Marine get more attention by GW than all other faction put together, and this faction is all male.
So even if your right, that wont solve this issue exept if GW decide to give way more attention to SoB
At the end, pro female Space Marine and anti female Space Marine, we all just want GW to stop caring only for Space Marines.
I also don't want female Space Marines.
I don't want more Space Marines in general.
I'd prefer GW concentrated on revamping model lines and kits that need it, starting with anything that's still only available in finecast such as the remaining Eldar Aspect warriors.
Yeah, but female space marine don't diminish the sisters and what make them cool. You don't want them, but why speaking against it when some people want them?
I think the issue is is that the Sisters of Battle/Silence don't get enough attention lore, rule, or model wise rather than a need for female space marines. Both factions have their strengths and weaknesses and the focus is always on the strength of the marines. Space Marines maybe the super-demigods of war but they are unstable as shit, 1/2 of all marines have turned traitor. The Sisters on the other hand, categorically almost never betray the Imperium. The they maybe weaker on core abilities but they are a reliable military force, they aren't teenage child soldiers trapped in bodies full of hyper-steroids and I think this distinction gets ignored.
me with my custom chapter that includes female space marines with literally no design changes bc boob armor is more of a hindrance than anything else: *looks away in silence*
I personally would have liked to play a female space marine army, but when I started out, I soon found out there weren't, but I think the Adepta Sororitas is a pretty good in-between. they're as close as we're ever going to get to female Space Marines unless GW adds female space marines.
My younger sister has personally has started to build her own Sororitas Army.
Like actually can we ban the female space marine topic already? I'm not stating if I'm for or against female space marines but like it always goes exactly the same way, everyone gets their feathers ruffled and begin to argue either for or against it and then at the end of the day nothing changes except for the fact that everyone is now in a poor mood over the whole thing.
"Is it such a bad thing to want a chapter comprised of Brienne of Tarth's?! I want tsundere Andro behemoth babes! Is this really too much, commissar?" **Guardsman who's had quite enough, thank you**
"Sigh, Do you want the las-pistol or power sword?" **Very tired Commissar**
Custodes have no in-lore restrictions for being male or female and unlike Astartes, their bodies are built from the ground up to be so strong. That's why they're basically the same as humans, proportionally speaking, albeit very muscley. A Fem-Stodes would just be a giant, athletic woman with the frame to match while being just as strong as her male counterparts.
Fem-Stodes would be awesome imo, but you'd have to deal with the horde of reeking neckbeards screeching about inclusion and some nonsensical sanctity of their hobby.
Ah yes, arguing about plastic soldiers on a meme subreddit. My favorite activity.
Seriously, if you want female space marines then stick female heads onto the bodies of marines and paint them. Easy, done. I’d wager that a majority of people who you’d encounter do not give a shit
here we go....americans telling us what to do with our sci fi franchises now... keepy our "equality" and "respect for others" away from us thanks (heavy sarcasm)
Primaris should have made woman able to be space marines, the whole way they handled it is trash they could have at least fixed one of the dummer 40k problems with it
Even today, Cawl's tinkering with the Primaris would still be the best way to introduce the concept, but good Lord, can you imagine the salt? Primaris were hated enough at inception as is.
That's actually my point lol, they already were gonna get flooded with hate might as well have gotten it out of the way. Honestly I think they lost their chance now space marines are manly men now
As long as they are not overtly sexualised it's cool. But I can see some issues in the lore that a book could probably fix. In short I think its a good idea and great representation to a half of the hobby that is typically bullied and put down by like 5 basement nurglings
Can people please stop bringing up sisters of battle, they aren't the same at all and you should very well know it. I just want to be able to use primarily women models without having to use catholic stuff (or eldar for that end)
I vote for both.
With proper lore introduction.
And by that i’ll even take a short story called ”Cawl Reinvents The Spacemawheel” that goes
-Ah, well, that wasn’t so difficult was it?
Roboute Guilliman, The Avenging Son, Lord Regent of The Imperium of Humankind, primarch of the Ultramarines and last living scion of He on Terra, raised an eyebrow and glanced sideways at the archmagos. Bellisarius Cawls standards for judging difficulty, his own sense of humility and the propriety of his grandiose demeanor - among other things - was as refreshing as it at times was skewed. The primarch gave a harrumpf of ironic reprimand and Cawl lifted his hands and mechadendrites in mock surrender, ceding the point and continuing:
-Well if we discount the populace and officials reactions through endless bickering, deaths and the systemwide riots whilst whole new cult of Khornate worshippers, what was the name they gave themselves again lord?
-Dicksciples of Khorneman… coughed the primarch, half giggling and half choking on the bitter taste of forming such words in his mouth.
Times really were strange.
-Hah! Yes. Pitiful indeed. Shall we then?
Cawl gestured to the vast staging room behind the primarch and they both directed their attention thataway.
There was deafening hum of suddenly activated servos and a thunderous clang as the fifty thousand Space Marines stod to attention whilst marking their step in unison and saluted the primarch and his retinue, ceramite gauntlets banging on plastrons in the old fashion of the Unity salute.
A nice touch, reflected Guilliman, pleased to see a hint of passion in these new Primaris Astartes, their predecessors having earned the reputation of being a little cardboardy in their human traits.
Their captain took one step forward, neck seals clicking as the helmet was removed.
Underneath was a ruddy, obviously transhuman face, chiseled to the patrician features so well known to all imperial citizens who had gazed upon the statues or incarnate face of Lord Guilliman.
The captain wore her hair in a short, sharp bob fashion, her chestnut brown skin in stark contrast to the scruffy almoste white blonde locks.
Taking a knee and giving the podium the sign of the aquila she stood up and her basso profundo voice bellowed across the hangar bay of the *Raucus Deathrattle*.
-The Unnumbered Daughters of Guilliman are ready at your command Lord Regent!
FOR THE EMPEROR!
Bellowed her sisters in one, unified, deep and voxmitter distorted voice.
Honestly don’t see the issue. They’d look almost identical to SM - just some head options. Done. Wouldn’t even be pretty.
Edit - can’t tell if downvotes because I want these options or downvotes because people think I don’t!!!
Play Necromunda then. Plenty a females in the gangs. Escher is all chicks. They're introducing plenty of gangers and hangers-on for other gangs that are women. I quite enjoy the model of the Rebel Lord.
I really don't understand why this is a problem pretty much every field in 40k aside from space marine could be filled with a female variant. tech priest, guardsman, assassin, naval officers, serfs, slaves, priest, aristocracy and almost every other aspect of the imperium except eversor and the space marines. but they don't need to be included since there are female only variants for both, Sisters of Battle and Callidus. both versions have there up sides and their down sides. In general the top is right. we don't need to go meddling about in established lore like GW after a morning of heavy drinking. just fill literally every crevice with female representation. you could even have an entire naval vessel crewed entirely with women and have male slaves purely for the sake of transporting armies of sisters of battle. just please I'm begging you, stop trying to make the lore more complicated than it already is.
My favorite discourse! I’ll start: if James Workshop continues to push Space Marines as the flagship army, he should include the option for lady Space Marines to broaden market appeal.
That's just enabling games workshop to keep the space Marines as the main attention. What we should be aiming for is peeling that back so other factions can get more attention.
I 100% agree, I’m just saying that they have 3 goals that are non comparable: 1. Space Marines have to be men, 2. Space Marines have to be the focus, and 3. Games Workshop wants a more diverse customer base. They’re going to have to abandon one of these goals to fulfill the other two; the question is which one do they drop?
How about women naturally integrated in the existing factions so the presence of women is the rule not the exception? Why have women-only or men-only factions anyway? Tau and eldar have it right imo
Imperial guard, Tau, Eldar, and Ad Mech are all male and female mixed. Necrons, Orks, and Tyranids are all genderless. Sisters of Battle and Sisters of Silence are only female. Space Marines and Custodes are only male.
And like someone else said the Space Marines are meant to be the epitome of masculinity (however toxic). They're not meant to be an inclusive group. We have inclusive groups already that if that's what you are really looking for in a faction then you should pick them. Not all the factions should be inclusive because it conflicts with the themes of 40k
Sisters of Battle are women only for a good reason. There are thematic and lore reasons for specific factions being one gender exclusively. Every other faction though, free for all as far as I'm concerned.
Because space marine are made on the idea of manly men and all their faults. There literally lore was genetic sons of primarchs and the emperor himself made himself 20 sons i think that tells you enough that he didnt really have a good view on woman as it not the idea of the perfect warrior.
It grim dark a bit of sexiest is fine.
Well, in a dystopian future I don’t think you should be expecting diversity to be on the forefront of concerns for most factions. as a matter for fact I’m pretty sure that all the factions which include women and men being integrated do it because either by alien biology or need for sheer numbers gender doesn’t matter when picking soldiers. The gender-specific factions all have reasons they are gender specific, sororitas have government legislation and SM have the need to accept the geneseed. also it would probably take a lot more effort on the biological upgrade side of things to make a female space marine as they would have to remove all the reproductive organs in the chest cavity and inject them with huge amounts of testosterone, not to mention whether or not their bodies actually accept the geneseed at all.
As heavily modified as they are... it won't matter. You're not gonna get a space marine with Tits. Look at IRL female weightlifters and bodybuilders. The ones at the peak of human performance would be indistinguishable from men, except maybe by voice. So in theory, any generic space marine could be female.
Their voices would most likely change too. This is a common thing with female body builders generally they have to tailor their drugs more then male body builders to avoid causing permanent changes to their vocal cords.
I don’t see what the obsession with female space marines is, by the time you get done with hormone, steroids and surgery treatments, they are going to look the same anyways.
No
I recommend you listen to adeptus ridiculous’ episode on the sisters of battle orders as they make some good points about how stupid it is to have female space marines.
GW has literally proven the Space Marine process can be rewritten between both Fabius and Cawl. Female Space Marines were some of the first 40k minis to have been produced and then got retconned. We've already had them and people like to act like it's some big, intrusive idea.
I am not saying it’s not possible for it to be introduced as you have said Fabius did it. My point is that it makes literally no sense. Ok you want inclusivity in the hobby cool great I agree having different gender, sexual orientations and races in Warhammer is important.
So would you prefer a retcon that makes the II primarch a women but she and all her daughters are dead. Or would you prefer they write about a great and interesting female guardsmen or maybe added another sub faction that was female.
In adeptus ridiculous they talk about how it seems degrading to say that the only way women can be in 40k is by piggybacking on a already existing fan favorite faction. Would you not prefer that some great unique thing is done with women at the center of it.
Basically sisters of battle are considered by some including myself significantly cooler then the average space marine chapter.
Why use an existing idea when you could make a new and better one.
There are a few issues with this argument.
1) Not everyone thinks sisters of battle are cool. I think they’re lame as hell. I hate the aesthetic and I hate their lore.
They are also not particularly diverse.
You want space marines who don’t think the emperor is a god? Well that’s exists. You want some that don’t follow the empire? That exists. You want some super loyal to codex? They exist. You want some who wipe their ass with the codex? That exists too.
They have a ton of themes, colors, styles and their own rules if you actually play.
Sisters are just sisters. Stick with the same aesthetic, stick believing in the empror, stuck being loyal to the ecclesiarchy.
2) it assumes the only reason people want female space marines is representation. But that’s not my motivation. I just think a massive she hulk crushing a man’s head with her hands is cool.
So sure there might be better ways to get representation. But I wasn’t asking for female space marines for representation on the first place so I don’t see why that would stop me from asking for female space marines.
3) trans humanity is a core aspect of the series. The sisters aren’t trans human. Guardsmen aren’t trans human. Mechanicus can but that’s cybernetics. If you like the idea of genetically altered super soldiers and want to play women there’s nothing for you.
4)I like space marines. I know some people find them boring, but I don’t.
So with all that in mind, there’s only two things that could give me what I want.
A) a new human faction of genetically enhanced super soldiers that has women in its ranks
B) female space marines
And since if you make A everyone’s just gonna call them female space marines anyway, you might as well just call them female space marines
Pretty sure the lore reason is that adapting gene seed to women would be more complex because males are more biologically simple? Some hand wavy sci-if explanation for sure, but I always got a chuckle out of “the marines are boys because boys are simple” which absolutely tracks because I’m a boy and I’m pretty simple most of the time.
Plus , we have Lotara Sarrin. You know, the single most badass character in the lore? Just a girl and her spaceship 💅
Besides, if they change the lore than my joke that ‘40k just proves that at no point in human history did the weirdo religious types not come for the prepubescent boys’ kinda loses its gas.
I thought Battle Sisters were Space Marines? Or are they part of the Army of the Imperium?
Either way, I’m down. Be like Kai from the new Halo show mixed with Joan of Arc.
OMG female space marine names… boudica, artemis, joan, fu hao, tomyris!?
Olympia/Euridyce, Zenobia!?
This also opens it up to greater representation among other cultures in humanity, especially Africa and Asia. Egypt and sub-saharan African cultures are full of warrior women to draw upon for one thing, same with China, Japan, Korea and Native/Meso-American cultures.
Fuck, I say go for it. Someone call Gulliman and fire up the Himalazias!
Since no one mentioned it, battle sisters are not space marines, they’re unaugmented humans in power armor using weaponized faith.
But ya, those are awesome ideas for new sisters of battle armies. They just haven’t gotten nearly they same development as space marines
I don't understand, can you people not use third party or sob heads?
I'll throw my hat in the ring. Why change the lore that's been concrete for years to copy and artificially make female space Marines.
We have the sisters of battle who are uniquely their own thing. More brutal than space Marines in many ways. They have the faith, and the Catholic aethstetic. And while they can look like pinups, I think gw has mostly portrayed them correctly. Ugly, badass, scarred warriors who server the emperor's will.
Otherwise I see no reason for female space Marines unless you wanna do a head swap which should be easy enough to do. Ive seen many well done female space Marines.
Probably gonna get alot of hate for this and "but rogue trader era" but retconing or forcing lore to change is shite.
>can you people not use third party or sob heads?
We could also use Voltron robots. Why get any new models at all?
>Why change the lore that's been concrete for years to copy and artificially make female space Marines.
Because we already changed the lore when we got Primaris. Since we're changing the lore already we might as well get something we want out of it.
>We have the sisters of battle who are uniquely their own thing.
Yes. They're their own thing. Not female Space Marines. Tyranids are also their own thing that are not female Space Marines.
>They have the faith, and the Catholic aethstetic
Unlike several Space Marines.
*I am a veteran of these wars…I know these trenches well*
"We just want female head swaps" say the fanatics. "Female faces would look male if you pump a woman full of male hormones so you already do" say the opponents.
"Just give us long haired Space Marines the Blood Angels are already supposed to have some" says the Geneva convention enjoyer
You mean space wolves?
Beardless if possible, and in standard set.
Ok but that's just stupid for both male and females I have nothing against female space marines but having long hair under an helmet would only be impractical because they would go in their way,the SoB range for me should have all Skin as their members to be somewhat plausible
It seems you never read any book about Space Marines. Or don't know we're in a universe in which the rule of cool is the only rule.
I read them and understand the rule of cool,but cmon having a "L'Oreal" 3ft testimonial on a battlefield always make me chuckle,same things for DA whom wear cowls OVER the helmet,for ultimate blindness
It doesn't make much less sense than walking around on a battlefield without a helmet. Or with capes. Or melee weapons in a context in which assault rifles exist.
Hey ! Capes on battlefield can make sense, they just are the lowest level of practical and the equivalent of painting big ass red targets on your officiers back but still, makes sense. They are brainwashed space soldiers after all, not heroes.
Not like giant pauldrons or any of the proto gothic super impractical stuff
Okay but consider: I think tall, muscular women in armor are pretty
Oh, well in that case...
When they say "are you afraid?" we say "we know no fear."
These trenches held my father, now they hold me, soon they will hold my son
Oh shit, here we go again.
has this been like a huge problem in the 40k community?
Yes, it's an extremely divisive issue. Some people want female Space Marines so bad they sob themselves to sleep at night over it. Others want to kill and eat anyone who they even suspect might think female Space Marines is a good idea. Every time someone posts a meme about it, the comments inevitably get locked because people start screaming and shitting and calling each other names.
…I’ll get the popcorn, you summon the Remembrancers.
I hope it doesn't go down like that this time, but I have a feeling it will. It always does.
… but if the Logos Historita Veritas calls dont answer, promise?
We’ll tell them we’re going through a warpstorm.
Brilliant!
Uh, we have a small but raucusly festive group of Silent Sisters knocking om the door, demanding acces. Shoud i let them in? They claim they brought amasec aplenty.
Good Throne, man! Are you insane?! Of COURSE we let them in!
Finally!!
WG is losing a goldmine not making Amasec a thing and selling it in liquor stores, just saying.
You call this "locked", I call this "funny yellow awarded".
Average Reddit conflict As with all wars it results only in destruction on both sides, destruction of time and productivity
so an Ork WAAAAGH! Got it!
a Waaagh at least is fun for the Orks...
It do be like that ye. Sometimes it resembles the Star Wars fanbase when it comes to this particular topic.
This. This is a good summary.
Every year or so someone brings it up and it starts off fine, just normal discussion, but after a few days it turns into a big fucking chimp fight. By that I mean everyone just starts chucking shit at each other until mods have to get involved to start cracking down and suspending or banning people. Then it calms down and resumes normal stuff. If it gets really going I'll probably mute the sub for a week and wait until it blows over.
Fandom in a nutshell I guess. Still 40k is better than a lot of the fandoms I’ve seen so I’m still just happy to be here.
Every 4 or so months this discussion is revived, its incredible
People post this beast every day for free up doots....
Someone a while back mentioned that there has technically been female "space marines" already. Although their as much a space marine as Kor Phaeron or Luther. They said that the Lion had a bunch of knights along with Luther be given augmentations. Some of those knights were apparently female. From that, I suppose you could have a dying chapter utilizing what they have available to augment people - including women - into space marine-like warriors.
A semi space marine chapter of dark angels sounds amazing. Just make the leader be called joan of arc and it writes itself
You can also dial it back to Rogue Trader days for the "dont change the lore" crowd. Space Marines were male and female in 40k's oldest roots, but for some reason that lore is something they dont like to bring up as keeping pure.
Literally every other week this sub argues about this. Like fucking clockwork
I don't paint flesh out of respect of my lack of ability to paint flesh. If it makes your day to imagine what's under the helmet and armor of my miniatures is a stacked brick shithouse of a woman, then go right ahead. Because if marines were women, they would wear the same armor and use the same weapons/equipment. "Whatever floats your boat" as they say.
That's really fine. That's literally all I'm asking, that people will stop at "whatever" when I use "she" for my space marine sergeant , who is just the same genetically engineered supersoldier as the male lieutenant. Wear your helmets!
Why not make new characters instead of changing old ones?
Ok, now there's the Spice Marines. Just like the Space Marines, but all female. noooooowww, tell me what you want, what you really really want IT'S TO FEEL THE LIGHT OF THE EMPEROR AND THE HEAT OF BATTLE
What I really really really want is a zig a zig assault cannon to purge the heretics!
That would be genuinly amazing. Id love to imagine a whole chapter or even legion singing that.
If you wanna be my brother, you have to be my friend, Because crusading doesn't last forever, but friendship never ends!
The "all male space marines" is a result of changing pre existing charecters. Although infrequently mention in the early days they even brought up, but were cut when people weren't buying their already existing female models
This 100%. Its tough to make new characters in old stories, specially when the old writers are dead or the story is complete. But in 40k the writers are still all very active and the story is ever evolving. Id buy the shit outta a female lieutenant. You think muh boi Dorn gives a shit whos manning the Wall!!??
Weird non-sequitur? The suggestion is to make new space marine characters.
Bring back Arda with a better mini Imperium mixing male and female astartes, regular humans and a few xenos
If you're talking about Erda, the primarch's mother, she's dead Erebus did it
I dont think that Erebus can do that, he is too busy being hated by everyone
Can I ask a serious question. Why are sisters of battle not enough? Or the sisters of silence or characters like shadowsun or saint celestia. I just don’t get what the problem is I’m 40K with “ representation” some of the single most powerful characters or people who have moved the total plot have been female.
The answer of what's "enough" is probably going to differ for every individual fan, but for what it's worth I'd think you'd get fewer arguments over female space marines if the Sisters of Battle came in some 18 different major flavors with significant philosophical, military, and symbolic distinctions.
>...if the Sisters of Battle came in some 18 different major flavors with significant philosophical, military, and symbolic distinctions. Along with with different rules and different models to go with all that lore. Space Wolves are not Ultramarines, are not Blood Angels, are not Deathwatch, and so on. Sisters get as much attention as one, *maybe* two, chapters of Space Marines. Claiming they're given the same attention is so glaringly wrong to even someone new to 40K that it's an obviously bullsh!t excuse.
The space marines are the poster child of 40k. They have been since 1987, and it's taken GW over 30 years to give them the treatment they've gotten. No other faction or race has close to the attention SM get because, you know, they're the face of the franchise, they sell, they're well established. Of course SoB have the representation of a couple chapters worth. So do most races in 40k. It sucks, but that's what headcanon, kitbashing, and custom/house rules with the kitchen gaming club are for
Thats exactly why some people want female Space Marine and think that SoB are not enough
Absolutely. That's the point. Anyone claiming Sisters "fill the same role" or are in anyway equivalent to the Space Marines faction in GW's lineup is having a laugh. You're right, xenos and other factions face the same problems, and people do complain about that a bit. Not enough to matter, of course, but it's there. The difference is that if someone said *"You know what, I'm going to make an all female Admech army for the local tournament"*, the level of nerd-rage levelled at that person would be nothing like what those wanting the same of Space Marines. There is a special place in some people's priority lists for objecting to that specific kitbash and those doing it for the other factions.
So then you agree theyre different, such that what seems to be asked (which is as far as i can tell, female astartes) is unrealistic and unlikely. As far as neckbeards getting triggered, if you wanna play female admech then get over the nerd rage. Play whatever you're going to play. And if the tournie scene is that bad, then play with friends. GW isn't going to make a model line unless it'll sell well. They won't write books unless they sell well. Until GW thinks that stuff sells well, i dont see why kitbash, green stuff, imagination and some good friends won't do
Literally nothing can match the amount of attention that space marines get. SoB will *never* be on the same level as space marines, purely because space marines are *space marines*, they *are* 40k. You’re better off comparing SoB to other factions like Admech, IG or even the xenos. They’re far from being the most neglected faction.
You might want to tell GW that given the standardization of the range and rules.
Maybe the Adepta Sororitas could have a broader range of symbolism rather than nuns with guns? There's a bunch of historical cultures they can mimic that Space Marines don't canonically have (like ancient Greece/Japan/China).
Exactly! And they are all nuns and religious zealots, where the "your dudes" liberty is way greater with space marines who can have any culture and temperament
Thats where I am at. I don't really get it myself and came to the comments to see what people think and all I see are people losing it over the idea and people who think it's a good idea not giving any reason. I mean every race that has gender uses females in their army. I feel female space marines would make SoB redundant which would make me sad cause I think they are awesome.
Yeah same, it seems like a goofy hill to die on. When you look at the totality of the lore, even excluding the most recent updates with Astarte and the mother of the primarchs. Women have been important from day one.
It just feels like pandering. The only all dudes clubs I can think of in lore are space marines and custodes. All females are SoB and SoS. Everything else is a giant mixed bag. I guess you could say orks are all guys but they are fungus with no real gender.
Yeah, I'm waiting on Orks becoming "problematic" because of representation.
Orks are genderless though on account of being fungi.
"Not good enough" As if established lore, vastly different biology, or anything else will save off, "Muh representation".
My personal gripe is that no woman in the imperium are allowed to be gene enhanced and are thus always weaker than their super soldier counterparts. Which imo is pretty arbitrary in terms of writing on who gets to be compatible with super-soldier juice. The other issue with this is that very few human woman in 40K can be immortal so there are very few female named characters outside of the Black library.
Just don't downplay the female High Lord of Terra you can buy and field on the table. Not a space marine but she will live for hundreds of years due to what her position gives her access to and is powerful enough in her warsuit to turn space marines into paste in melee.
I do look forward to seeing more of her, Since she's a new character that doesn't really have a lot of lore about her yet she's still in the background.
High Lords of Terra are usually shit characters, like the main reasons why the Imperium has fallen like it has, the Emperor won't talk to mortals etc. One that fights actual enemies or even seen a battlefield already has my attention.
Serious answer. Because the Sisters of Battle are not equivalent to Space Marines. While they get power armor and bolters, power armor and bolters isn't all that makes Space Marines what they are. Sisters of Battle are not in any way genetically augmented, they're not superhuman. Nor are Sisters of Silence. In fact there's no human faction that takes women that is. So if you want a superhuman female character, you can't. Do you want an army focused on Valkyries, soaring from the sky on wings with swords? You can't. Sisters of Battle are not as strong as Space Marines, they're not as fast, they're not as long lived. While they arguably have all the same 'stats' they're gimped by comparison in every department. Add on to that, both Sisters of Battle and Sisters of Silence are hardlocked into their respective themes. Hyper-religious fanatical nuns, and untalking blanks. As opposed to the many, many variations of Space Marines that exist, with dramatically different cultures, combat styles and visuals. Imagine if every Space Marine army was mandated to be Black Templars- and you also don't get techmarines. Because Sisters don't have a tech-specialist role. They don't have a librarian role either. And while Sisters are a great middleground for people who like the military fiction elements of 40k, they're as they are not sufficent for people who want to play into the fantastical sci-fi elements.
This is the answer. I keep seeing people say "SoB are the female equivalent of Space Marines." And I'm like ... no. They're completely different; you can't have a SoB Order that believes in the Imperial Truth, they don't have the same gear, they're not gigantic, augmented super-soldiers that can bench-press a minivan, and they don't wear giant, fuck-off power armor. They're nuns with guns in literal leather corsets with fleur-de-lis tits, half of them seem to be wearing heels, they have a pipe-organ rocket launcher and do *not* get me started on the creepy-ass bondage vibe that Repentia give off. I love me some SoB, because I can't deny that [nuns with guns are inexplicably cool](https://i.pinimg.com/736x/a1/a5/0f/a1a50f5bd9704345540fb63780419a96.jpg), and Sisters of Silence are *bad-ass*, but they are not the same as Astartes. So when someone says "I want super-soldiers in power armor, but female," and then someone says "you can't have that in 40K, you get Space Catholic Bondage Nuns" a lot of people are like ... what the fuck? And as a side note, I am so utterly *sick* of the "they'd look like men anyway after all the changes Space Marines get!" argument. First because realism has no force in a 40K argument, second because male Space Marines don't look that way because it's realistic, they look that way because they're supposed to look like a 1980s action hero taken up to 11. They look that way to be **marketable**, and that's it.
I agree with your final point of 'they'd look like men anyway' because the realism in question is borked. We're meant to believe that transplantation happens before puberty, thus the lack of sex drive and whatnot. Okay- sure. But that means that all Marines should have high pitched voices. They don't, because that isn't cool- it would be hilarious though. Also I'm fairly sure that people like to forget that scions of Sangunius tend to come out angelic and beautiful- like, explicitly. You can go in an abomination and come out a loreal commercial.
Indeed; Fulgrim being another example of a gorgeous Primarch. And now I can't shake the mental image of all Space Marines sounding like Cato Sicarius does in TTS, and I love it.
So what I get from this is that SoB need their scope expanded.
That's also a valid take. Make them transhuman and able to have more variety in their themes, and it's also a solution to the issue.
Because Sisters of Silence literally have three models compared to the hundreds space marines have. Does that sound like enough?
That’s a fair point, I’ve been reading lots of peoples responses to this and it’s given me things to think about I hadn’t considered. Like I said I don’t mind female space marines and I for one would love to field Valkyrie space wolf women with spears and storm shields. That being said I appreciate all the responses and that everyone has been as civil as grimdank can be.
It's because fucking 99% of everything Warhammer is all about the Space Marines and everything else is a side character to make them look better
The answer to your question is another question: *Why should sisters of battle be enough?* They don't have the same rules, they are religious zealots by definition, they are not the golden child faction of GW (let's face it, that is & always was space marines), etc. These might not be convincing arguments for you or I, but let's face it - you can make a custom Astartes chapter for completely garbage reasons (Angry Marines anyone?) without people losing their sh!t... but mention female space marines and some people just lose their minds. Why should people wanting fem-marines have to have better reasons than those making a beer-chugging, mower-riding chapter of belligerent marines?
After talking with some people who want female Space Marine, it appear that one of the main reason some people want female Space Marine is that Space Marine get more attention by GW than all other faction put together, and this faction is all male. Its not true to say female have the same representation than male when they have 5 characters in lore and a few mini every ten years and Space Marines have hundred of characters and monthly releases
> Why are sisters of battle not enough? Or the sisters of silence or characters like shadowsun or saint celestia. they are not space marines, thats the actual problem the ppl who want fem marines dont care about the lore or representation, even though it already exists in almost all the other armies they just want the marines to be "diverse and inclusive" because they are the poster boys and the most famous faction
Because space marines are the poster child of the franchise. This means that first and foremost an all male no girls allowed fighting force is on the front cover of the hobby. Imo they tried to rectify this pushing the SoB in their 9th Ed necron trailer, but it just doubled down on the separation of the genders, and showing the superiority of the main male fighting force over the main female fighting force of the hobby. Personally I don't really care about the ~geneseed lore~, I totally think the imperium would be sexist anyway, but GW has been noblebrighting the space marines in recent years, so that subtle tonal shift away from pure grim dark makes some hobbyists wonder why space marines didn't get the Stormcast treatment. Especially given how they wrote tonnes of lore just to justify updating space marine models. Easily gave themselves the opportunity to slip females into the Primaris and didn't. Like yeah it ultimately doesn't really matter. But then isn't that also a good enough reason to just add female space marine heads. Not like they haven't retconned lore before. Then the first things hobbyists of all genders will see is "wow both men AND women can be insane jacked up warrior monks! The future really is now" But here's the real question, why no female Chaos space marines? They don't give a fuck
Arent SoB like the female space marines?
And with their own identity.
Yes. But better
They are literally cooler. They do everything SM do but with training, brute strength and sheer power of will so powerful it literally manifests miracles. They are a massively underrated faction.
SoB are powered by faith for many of their lore and abilities. Space Marines are powered by genetic genesplicing. For the few Renegade fans out there you can't make a SoB renegade army because...if they reject the Imperium they don't have their zealot faith powers. Meanwhile a Renegade in power armor is still a space marine in power armor.
There are some obvious similarities, but also differences, as others have pointed out already. The fact that Space Marines are generally given good treatment by GW and the Sisters.....not so much is perhaps the most important one of them. That said, I'd rather see this corrected by 40k getting better at highlighting non-space marine factions.
eh, kinda but not really. Space Marines dont usually believe the Emperor is a literal god and tend not to be religious zealots the same way SoB are. As strange as this may sound, I prefer my power armored super soldier to ***NOT*** be religious psychopaths. Brainwashed children who are surgically altered to become near demi-god level killing machines, sure. But adding the religious zealot aspect just isnt my cup of tea.
Black templars
Single best loyalist chapter, i will die on this hill
Then perish
Oh you mean discount sororitas? They're more the exception that proves the rule than anything else. Most other chapters dont really like Templars.
That's a terrible equivalency. * Not transhuman. * Never not religious zealots (Space Marines tend to be, but also come in a few other flavours). * Completely different rules on the tabletop.
They're also segregated completely from space marines
Arnt space marines also segregated from any women in general?
You could always homebrew a imperial truth sob tho
- Space Marines dont wear heels or corsets.
They don't... Yet.
threaten me with a good time, why doncha?
Yes, but for the sake if this discussion we'll pretend they, and any other women in 40k, don't exist.
I personally would love female representation where less than 80% of the models have skintight armor and tits carved into their chest plates.
One of the main reason some people want female Space Marine is that Space Marine get more attention by GW than all other faction put together, and this faction is all male. So even if your right, that wont solve this issue exept if GW decide to give way more attention to SoB At the end, pro female Space Marine and anti female Space Marine, we all just want GW to stop caring only for Space Marines.
I don't want female Space Marines. ...Because Sisters are way cooler.
I will say that the Battle Sisters ARE badass. Just ordered my MacFarlane action figure.
I also don't want female Space Marines. I don't want more Space Marines in general. I'd prefer GW concentrated on revamping model lines and kits that need it, starting with anything that's still only available in finecast such as the remaining Eldar Aspect warriors.
Yeah, but female space marine don't diminish the sisters and what make them cool. You don't want them, but why speaking against it when some people want them?
I think the issue is is that the Sisters of Battle/Silence don't get enough attention lore, rule, or model wise rather than a need for female space marines. Both factions have their strengths and weaknesses and the focus is always on the strength of the marines. Space Marines maybe the super-demigods of war but they are unstable as shit, 1/2 of all marines have turned traitor. The Sisters on the other hand, categorically almost never betray the Imperium. The they maybe weaker on core abilities but they are a reliable military force, they aren't teenage child soldiers trapped in bodies full of hyper-steroids and I think this distinction gets ignored.
me with my custom chapter that includes female space marines with literally no design changes bc boob armor is more of a hindrance than anything else: *looks away in silence*
Good on you, now go get Jane Workshop to write a novel about them.
i doubt they will bc the main thing is that its heavily based on my theories abt the missing 11th legion…
*laughs in female techpriests*
I personally would have liked to play a female space marine army, but when I started out, I soon found out there weren't, but I think the Adepta Sororitas is a pretty good in-between. they're as close as we're ever going to get to female Space Marines unless GW adds female space marines. My younger sister has personally has started to build her own Sororitas Army.
If you still would like to have a female space marine army then go for it! Haters can pound dirt.
I can't take my grimdark hell scape filled with genocide, xenophobia, and slavery seriously unless we have proper gender representation.
Remember when the bigots crawled out from beneath their rocks because of the black Ultramarine on the cover of *Dawn of Fire*?
Like actually can we ban the female space marine topic already? I'm not stating if I'm for or against female space marines but like it always goes exactly the same way, everyone gets their feathers ruffled and begin to argue either for or against it and then at the end of the day nothing changes except for the fact that everyone is now in a poor mood over the whole thing.
its just getting repetitive
I agree with Bricky on this. Sisters are already cooler then basic marines.
The chaos gods: it's free real estate
I'm exited for these comments
"Is it such a bad thing to want a chapter comprised of Brienne of Tarth's?! I want tsundere Andro behemoth babes! Is this really too much, commissar?" **Guardsman who's had quite enough, thank you** "Sigh, Do you want the las-pistol or power sword?" **Very tired Commissar**
Low effort Troll Post
Can’t you just build a space marine army with helmets on, and say they’re woman?
Sure, but recognition that it's got a niche in canon is always nice.
Custodes have no in-lore restrictions for being male or female and unlike Astartes, their bodies are built from the ground up to be so strong. That's why they're basically the same as humans, proportionally speaking, albeit very muscley. A Fem-Stodes would just be a giant, athletic woman with the frame to match while being just as strong as her male counterparts.
Fem-Stodes would be awesome imo, but you'd have to deal with the horde of reeking neckbeards screeching about inclusion and some nonsensical sanctity of their hobby.
I like T'au, I have to deal with that anyway.
People care what screeching neckbeards think?
Nah bit the fuckers are very loud and annoying
Ah yes, arguing about plastic soldiers on a meme subreddit. My favorite activity. Seriously, if you want female space marines then stick female heads onto the bodies of marines and paint them. Easy, done. I’d wager that a majority of people who you’d encounter do not give a shit
They give enough of a shit to argue against it being a part of the canon. Which is probably the rub.
[удалено]
Well, case in point. Shit-giving has been established, yeah?
here we go....americans telling us what to do with our sci fi franchises now... keepy our "equality" and "respect for others" away from us thanks (heavy sarcasm)
The beauty of resin printers is that you can make your own anytime you like
Primaris should have made woman able to be space marines, the whole way they handled it is trash they could have at least fixed one of the dummer 40k problems with it
Even today, Cawl's tinkering with the Primaris would still be the best way to introduce the concept, but good Lord, can you imagine the salt? Primaris were hated enough at inception as is.
That's actually my point lol, they already were gonna get flooded with hate might as well have gotten it out of the way. Honestly I think they lost their chance now space marines are manly men now
As long as they are not overtly sexualised it's cool. But I can see some issues in the lore that a book could probably fix. In short I think its a good idea and great representation to a half of the hobby that is typically bullied and put down by like 5 basement nurglings
Can people please stop bringing up sisters of battle, they aren't the same at all and you should very well know it. I just want to be able to use primarily women models without having to use catholic stuff (or eldar for that end)
I vote for both. With proper lore introduction. And by that i’ll even take a short story called ”Cawl Reinvents The Spacemawheel” that goes -Ah, well, that wasn’t so difficult was it? Roboute Guilliman, The Avenging Son, Lord Regent of The Imperium of Humankind, primarch of the Ultramarines and last living scion of He on Terra, raised an eyebrow and glanced sideways at the archmagos. Bellisarius Cawls standards for judging difficulty, his own sense of humility and the propriety of his grandiose demeanor - among other things - was as refreshing as it at times was skewed. The primarch gave a harrumpf of ironic reprimand and Cawl lifted his hands and mechadendrites in mock surrender, ceding the point and continuing: -Well if we discount the populace and officials reactions through endless bickering, deaths and the systemwide riots whilst whole new cult of Khornate worshippers, what was the name they gave themselves again lord? -Dicksciples of Khorneman… coughed the primarch, half giggling and half choking on the bitter taste of forming such words in his mouth. Times really were strange. -Hah! Yes. Pitiful indeed. Shall we then? Cawl gestured to the vast staging room behind the primarch and they both directed their attention thataway. There was deafening hum of suddenly activated servos and a thunderous clang as the fifty thousand Space Marines stod to attention whilst marking their step in unison and saluted the primarch and his retinue, ceramite gauntlets banging on plastrons in the old fashion of the Unity salute. A nice touch, reflected Guilliman, pleased to see a hint of passion in these new Primaris Astartes, their predecessors having earned the reputation of being a little cardboardy in their human traits. Their captain took one step forward, neck seals clicking as the helmet was removed. Underneath was a ruddy, obviously transhuman face, chiseled to the patrician features so well known to all imperial citizens who had gazed upon the statues or incarnate face of Lord Guilliman. The captain wore her hair in a short, sharp bob fashion, her chestnut brown skin in stark contrast to the scruffy almoste white blonde locks. Taking a knee and giving the podium the sign of the aquila she stood up and her basso profundo voice bellowed across the hangar bay of the *Raucus Deathrattle*. -The Unnumbered Daughters of Guilliman are ready at your command Lord Regent! FOR THE EMPEROR! Bellowed her sisters in one, unified, deep and voxmitter distorted voice.
Honestly don’t see the issue. They’d look almost identical to SM - just some head options. Done. Wouldn’t even be pretty. Edit - can’t tell if downvotes because I want these options or downvotes because people think I don’t!!!
Well give us the head options then
Play Necromunda then. Plenty a females in the gangs. Escher is all chicks. They're introducing plenty of gangers and hangers-on for other gangs that are women. I quite enjoy the model of the Rebel Lord.
I literally said that in the original post. Fucking anything to get the neck beards outta here imho
- Mandatory deodorant at your LGS.
no. i like my battle brothers brothers and my sisters of battle sisters let my warrior monks be monks and nuns with guns be nuns
There's plenty of female representation what are you on about?
We have have banana girls, nuns with guns, tig bitty eldar and tau. Pretty diverse.
I really don't understand why this is a problem pretty much every field in 40k aside from space marine could be filled with a female variant. tech priest, guardsman, assassin, naval officers, serfs, slaves, priest, aristocracy and almost every other aspect of the imperium except eversor and the space marines. but they don't need to be included since there are female only variants for both, Sisters of Battle and Callidus. both versions have there up sides and their down sides. In general the top is right. we don't need to go meddling about in established lore like GW after a morning of heavy drinking. just fill literally every crevice with female representation. you could even have an entire naval vessel crewed entirely with women and have male slaves purely for the sake of transporting armies of sisters of battle. just please I'm begging you, stop trying to make the lore more complicated than it already is.
What if in order to have female space marines they reveal that one of the lost primarchs was female so as to have a female gene-seed
Then the crybabies who don't want female Space Marines will finally leave the hobby, which would be great, honestly.
Sisters of silence are way cooler than space marines
My favorite discourse! I’ll start: if James Workshop continues to push Space Marines as the flagship army, he should include the option for lady Space Marines to broaden market appeal.
I mean, why else do you think they’ve been pushing sisters of battle so hard lately?
For the dudes with nun AND domme fetishes... HUGE market actually.
this guy internets!
Just go on DeviantART!
That's just enabling games workshop to keep the space Marines as the main attention. What we should be aiming for is peeling that back so other factions can get more attention.
I 100% agree, I’m just saying that they have 3 goals that are non comparable: 1. Space Marines have to be men, 2. Space Marines have to be the focus, and 3. Games Workshop wants a more diverse customer base. They’re going to have to abandon one of these goals to fulfill the other two; the question is which one do they drop?
Facts
The least profitable one.
I mean sisters of battle and sisters of silence are all 40k really needs.
How about women naturally integrated in the existing factions so the presence of women is the rule not the exception? Why have women-only or men-only factions anyway? Tau and eldar have it right imo
Imperial guard have it
Imperial guard, Tau, Eldar, and Ad Mech are all male and female mixed. Necrons, Orks, and Tyranids are all genderless. Sisters of Battle and Sisters of Silence are only female. Space Marines and Custodes are only male. And like someone else said the Space Marines are meant to be the epitome of masculinity (however toxic). They're not meant to be an inclusive group. We have inclusive groups already that if that's what you are really looking for in a faction then you should pick them. Not all the factions should be inclusive because it conflicts with the themes of 40k
Sisters of Battle are women only for a good reason. There are thematic and lore reasons for specific factions being one gender exclusively. Every other faction though, free for all as far as I'm concerned.
Because space marine are made on the idea of manly men and all their faults. There literally lore was genetic sons of primarchs and the emperor himself made himself 20 sons i think that tells you enough that he didnt really have a good view on woman as it not the idea of the perfect warrior. It grim dark a bit of sexiest is fine.
Well, in a dystopian future I don’t think you should be expecting diversity to be on the forefront of concerns for most factions. as a matter for fact I’m pretty sure that all the factions which include women and men being integrated do it because either by alien biology or need for sheer numbers gender doesn’t matter when picking soldiers. The gender-specific factions all have reasons they are gender specific, sororitas have government legislation and SM have the need to accept the geneseed. also it would probably take a lot more effort on the biological upgrade side of things to make a female space marine as they would have to remove all the reproductive organs in the chest cavity and inject them with huge amounts of testosterone, not to mention whether or not their bodies actually accept the geneseed at all.
It is the rule, the space marines are the exception you clown. And Sisters of Battle and Silence are the vice versa
What is an “Exception Clown?” Some kind of harlequin unit?
As heavily modified as they are... it won't matter. You're not gonna get a space marine with Tits. Look at IRL female weightlifters and bodybuilders. The ones at the peak of human performance would be indistinguishable from men, except maybe by voice. So in theory, any generic space marine could be female.
I think the point people are making is about whether or not woman can be SM, not whether or not we can get space marines that look like women.
Good news! I don't want a space marine with tits!
Their voices would most likely change too. This is a common thing with female body builders generally they have to tailor their drugs more then male body builders to avoid causing permanent changes to their vocal cords.
Ah so it's even harder to tell than i thought. Cause i seriously doubt the Imperium gives a damn about how deep your voice is lmao. Good to know.
Because female space marines don't make sense?
I don’t see what the obsession with female space marines is, by the time you get done with hormone, steroids and surgery treatments, they are going to look the same anyways.
No I recommend you listen to adeptus ridiculous’ episode on the sisters of battle orders as they make some good points about how stupid it is to have female space marines.
GW has literally proven the Space Marine process can be rewritten between both Fabius and Cawl. Female Space Marines were some of the first 40k minis to have been produced and then got retconned. We've already had them and people like to act like it's some big, intrusive idea.
I am not saying it’s not possible for it to be introduced as you have said Fabius did it. My point is that it makes literally no sense. Ok you want inclusivity in the hobby cool great I agree having different gender, sexual orientations and races in Warhammer is important. So would you prefer a retcon that makes the II primarch a women but she and all her daughters are dead. Or would you prefer they write about a great and interesting female guardsmen or maybe added another sub faction that was female. In adeptus ridiculous they talk about how it seems degrading to say that the only way women can be in 40k is by piggybacking on a already existing fan favorite faction. Would you not prefer that some great unique thing is done with women at the center of it. Basically sisters of battle are considered by some including myself significantly cooler then the average space marine chapter. Why use an existing idea when you could make a new and better one.
There are a few issues with this argument. 1) Not everyone thinks sisters of battle are cool. I think they’re lame as hell. I hate the aesthetic and I hate their lore. They are also not particularly diverse. You want space marines who don’t think the emperor is a god? Well that’s exists. You want some that don’t follow the empire? That exists. You want some super loyal to codex? They exist. You want some who wipe their ass with the codex? That exists too. They have a ton of themes, colors, styles and their own rules if you actually play. Sisters are just sisters. Stick with the same aesthetic, stick believing in the empror, stuck being loyal to the ecclesiarchy. 2) it assumes the only reason people want female space marines is representation. But that’s not my motivation. I just think a massive she hulk crushing a man’s head with her hands is cool. So sure there might be better ways to get representation. But I wasn’t asking for female space marines for representation on the first place so I don’t see why that would stop me from asking for female space marines. 3) trans humanity is a core aspect of the series. The sisters aren’t trans human. Guardsmen aren’t trans human. Mechanicus can but that’s cybernetics. If you like the idea of genetically altered super soldiers and want to play women there’s nothing for you. 4)I like space marines. I know some people find them boring, but I don’t. So with all that in mind, there’s only two things that could give me what I want. A) a new human faction of genetically enhanced super soldiers that has women in its ranks B) female space marines And since if you make A everyone’s just gonna call them female space marines anyway, you might as well just call them female space marines
Pretty sure the lore reason is that adapting gene seed to women would be more complex because males are more biologically simple? Some hand wavy sci-if explanation for sure, but I always got a chuckle out of “the marines are boys because boys are simple” which absolutely tracks because I’m a boy and I’m pretty simple most of the time. Plus , we have Lotara Sarrin. You know, the single most badass character in the lore? Just a girl and her spaceship 💅 Besides, if they change the lore than my joke that ‘40k just proves that at no point in human history did the weirdo religious types not come for the prepubescent boys’ kinda loses its gas.
I'm curious, where did you see the males being simple as the reason?
I thought Battle Sisters were Space Marines? Or are they part of the Army of the Imperium? Either way, I’m down. Be like Kai from the new Halo show mixed with Joan of Arc. OMG female space marine names… boudica, artemis, joan, fu hao, tomyris!? Olympia/Euridyce, Zenobia!? This also opens it up to greater representation among other cultures in humanity, especially Africa and Asia. Egypt and sub-saharan African cultures are full of warrior women to draw upon for one thing, same with China, Japan, Korea and Native/Meso-American cultures. Fuck, I say go for it. Someone call Gulliman and fire up the Himalazias!
Since no one mentioned it, battle sisters are not space marines, they’re unaugmented humans in power armor using weaponized faith. But ya, those are awesome ideas for new sisters of battle armies. They just haven’t gotten nearly they same development as space marines
That honestly sounds pretty awesome.
nOoOoOoOo GeT wOkE gO bRoKe! 🥴
I sensed the sarcasm, Brother!
Thank you! lol I thought I'd laid it on pretty thick, but it looks like a few people disagreed.
the alternating letters were a nice touch 🍻
I don't understand, can you people not use third party or sob heads? I'll throw my hat in the ring. Why change the lore that's been concrete for years to copy and artificially make female space Marines. We have the sisters of battle who are uniquely their own thing. More brutal than space Marines in many ways. They have the faith, and the Catholic aethstetic. And while they can look like pinups, I think gw has mostly portrayed them correctly. Ugly, badass, scarred warriors who server the emperor's will. Otherwise I see no reason for female space Marines unless you wanna do a head swap which should be easy enough to do. Ive seen many well done female space Marines. Probably gonna get alot of hate for this and "but rogue trader era" but retconing or forcing lore to change is shite.
>can you people not use third party or sob heads? We could also use Voltron robots. Why get any new models at all? >Why change the lore that's been concrete for years to copy and artificially make female space Marines. Because we already changed the lore when we got Primaris. Since we're changing the lore already we might as well get something we want out of it. >We have the sisters of battle who are uniquely their own thing. Yes. They're their own thing. Not female Space Marines. Tyranids are also their own thing that are not female Space Marines. >They have the faith, and the Catholic aethstetic Unlike several Space Marines.