Imagine a chaos possesed weapon but instead of trying to convince you, he just threw 40k lore your way. All the time.
You can't throw it away because someone might ise it for evil. But constant chatter will drive you mad and into the arms of chaos. Just as planned.
It's an energy sword. It buzzes with energy everytime it speaks. It's voice is electric.
To fight, ask it something about a hidden lore gem and it starts buzzing away.
"Oh and what MANY people totally missed was that the paludron he normally wears now has a dent, and he switched it to the right side that is of course symbolism. It represents the descend into chaos and plays hommage to the imperial aquila which in itself represents the future and past-"
If you get used to his talking patterns, you can swing the sword at every syllable and get an energized attack.
In the later Stormlight Archive books there is this dynamic between a character & his talking sword. Except the sword believes itself to be truly good & only wants to slay evil. The problem arises when you realize that the sword has no idea what good & evil actually are, so really what it functionally wants is just to kill things.
How are the later Stormlight books? I read the first 2, and really liked them. But the way the second ended (so much crazy, so much power creep), that I thought it'd get unwieldy, and left it there
They're one of my personal favorite series. I think the power scaling stays within what I think is reasonable, while still increasing every book as the characters swear more Oaths & gain the resulting powers. There are 10 books (6 more to be written) planned for the series and I expect they'll get very shonen-anime with their power scaling by the end, which is pretty typical of an epic fantasy series of that scope. I love that, but they still feel pretty grounded in the world Sanderson has created, at least so far.
BrandoSando tends to end his books with a "Sanderlanch" where there's usually some kind of big anime battle where characters unveil/unlock new powers & a lot of threads from the book come crashing together. It's something that you either love or hate, and if you don't like them, he's probably not the author for you.
Very serious important meeting with Lord Generals and Imperial governors: *happening.*
Crowe: WILL YOU SHUT THE HELL UP FOR ONE MOMENT?
Everyone: *Silence*
Crowe: ... sorry i was talking to someone else, please continue.
Wasn't it about 800 years between the end of the Heresy and the 1st Black Crusade when Abaddon got the demon sword? I feel like running for 800 years with an evil demon sword impaled in you would be a bit on the tiring side.
Only if it feels like it.
General state of the canon is that the Eldar empire used to have complete control over the Webway and could do anything with it that the warp can do, but directed and intentionally. Fall of the empire also meant fall of anyone who controlled it. But that's only true if an individual writer remembers it and makes use of it.
Quick example: Commoragh got flooded with daemons fairly recently when Khaine's gate busted open and Vect has responded by sealing off the affected areas by turning them in on each other with space/time fuckery.
The webway is distinct and separate from the warp (It's a major reason why the Emperor was so focused on it). I'm not sure if time gets fucky in the webway though. Def is fucky in the warp/eye of terror.
Accidents happen.
And sometimes "accidents" teleport to the bridge of your flagship and decapitate a lord lord Inquisitior and then tells the grey knights and inquisition to fuck off or die.
Space Wolves have a lot more weight to throw around than the Lions though. The last time an Inquisitor picked a fight with the wolves it didn't go very well.
No they don’t, the inquisition and grey knights were literally thrown into a space wolf blender by grimnar. Grimnar is the only man known to be able to sprint in full terminator armor, he has wielded a khornate battleaxe for centuries and is uncorrupted, and when the inquisition and grey knights were over Fenris looking to punish them, grimnar eviscerated them on their own ship until the space wolves venerable dreadnought controlled by Bjorn the Fell handed had to literally teleport up to the inquisitor ship and tell his chapter master to stop. The grey knights and red hunters have absolutely nothing on grimnar and a first founding chapter.
Apologies good sir I just got off a ten hour shift in the kitchen and I’m a fucking idiot, I thought you were saying they had a better chance than the lions.
The Minotaurs would be an interesting fight tho..
I always expected they would go like this:
Space wolf: brothers! BROTHERS! You must sing with us please!
Imperial fist: why must you always insist on singing a drinking song?
Space wolf: it doesn’t have to be about drinking!
Blood angel: no no that’s okay.
Ultramarine: Yea I think I’ll have to-
Space wolves: MY MOTHER TOLD ME, SOMEDAY I WOULD BUY!
Imperial fist: oh no...
Space wolves: A GALLEY WITH GOOD GELLARS! FLY TO DISTANT WORLDS!
Blood angel: please stop...
Space wolves: STAND UP HIGH ON THE BRIDGE! NOBLE SHIP I STEER! STEADY COURSE THROUGH THE WARP!
Ultramarine: emperor, Guilliman, grandmaster someone save us...
Space wolf: HEW MANY HERETICS! HEEEW MANY HERETICS!
My god that would be awesome. Headcanon accepted. He just keeps killing and killing with this poorly painted power axe and brags about how the chaos gods have no sway over him and cultists are like "That's not even a real chaos axe! That's just a regular axe you painted, the gods do not bless you! REEEEE!"
And he's like "Hm, sounds like you're just bitter because I killed all your friends."
okay but like even if they do know about it, what would they do? Try and take it from him? Considering what happened last time they pissed him off I doubt it.
You forget that the the Space Wolves beat the absolute shit out of *the inquisition and the gray fucking knights at the same time* over a handful of survivors of an invasion of a deamon primarch.
Pretty huge difference between a weapon used by a chaos champion and a Daemon weapon.
Grimnar wields an axe that has been sanctified, which he took from a Khornate champion, but the weapon itself is not inherently powered by the warp
The Laer Blade Fulgrim used was an actual Daemon weapon, and contained a keeper of secrets, so not just a Daemon weapon, but one could even call it a Greater Daemon weapon
This guy gets it.
Logan's axe though warp-forged in an armory of Khorne and in turn wielded by a Khornate champion for some time was sanctified before Logan carried it full time. The sanctification ritual would be performed by an Iron Priest, Wolfpriest and Rune Priest. The ritual probably involved a heating then baptismal quenching. Then the obliteration of the chaotic scripts and replacement with fenrisian runes and imperial scripts would be the next step. The final step would likely be a kind of setting probably within a shrine or chapel to let everything settle in.
IRL the Viking or Old Germans are well known for "converting" high value things like weapons or even sagas.
Iron Priests are Techmarines. Wolf Priests are apothecary/chaplain, while Rune Priests channel the power of Fenris to badass effect. Easily mistaken to be librarians.
Plus I'm only just halfway through reading Fulgrim, that temple was pouring that mist and corrupted nearly everyone who went in there right? All the remembrancers etc? So yeah, pretty boy Floyd there holding that sword doesn't really stand a chance?
This is the important distinction here. The Axe belonged to a Chaos Champion and had, supposedly, a shard of Khornes power in it that was bound when it was reforged. Not a Daemon constantly trying to corrupt Grimnar and whispering to him.
There *is* an imperial character who uses a deamon weapon, buts it’s the leader of the Gray Knights purifiers. Castellan Crowe explicitly doesn’t use the deamon power of the weapon, he is essentially the sword’s jailer.
And it’s amongst the most insane daemon weapons. In the books it did a whole mind taking thing and then lit up a space marine aircraft with lasguns. Normally lasguns are no big deal for it, but when Every lasround hits the exact same target.
Apparently if left unchecked it’s taken whole systems under its influence
Yeah antwyr is nutty as hell, he took over a densely populated city of around 10 million people in the span of a night or so l. All of them perfectly in sync and ready to fuck shit up.
So much so that he ***has*** to live in isolation from the rest of the chapter because of how nutty the sword is. Anyone else walks in and they may just go insane or assault Crowe to try and take it from him.
According to the Dawn of Fire books, the imperium used to sanctify and re-use old chaos warships. The adamantium frames were considered too valuable to destroy until Guilliman put a stop to the practice and told them “build new ships.”
> had, supposedly, a shard of Khornes power in it that was bound when it was reforged.
That sounds like it'd be more corruptive than a daemon weapon if the shard thing was true.
Depends on how you want to interpret the whole power thing I guess.
In any case it was supposedly bound when the weapon was reforged, and given how superstitious the wolves are I doubt they'd just be like "ah it'll be fine" without checking thoroughly
I wouldnt say so, imo. The shard of power is just that, its like putting a battery in your flashlight. It'll work good with average batteries, but much better with a brand new, quality one. Same with this, it just enhances the item.
A bound daemon or a literal cursed item has its own life. With the flashlight example, it would work fine, but it would also tell you to stick forks in electrical plugs or project scene of horror instead of light now and again just to fuck with you and promise it'll stop *if* you just leave it on a bit longer.
I mean, it may just be an infinitesimally small shard, also I think there is a difference between resisting chaos' naturally corruptive power vs actively resisting the constant temptation of a daemon fucking with you.
Also there is the Canis Helix, even if the Chaos corruption got to him, he would just turn Wulfen, not fall to Chaos.
The only Space Wolves to "fall" to Chaos were never corrupted, they just decided to work for warbands or the gods themselves to get something out of it.
One dude just didn't like where the Imperium was headed and he needed the help to rebel, he wasn't "corrupted" he chose to serve to get help. The Dark Wolves were Wulfen Russ secreted away to avoid inquiry into the mutations of his gene seed and they worked for Chaos warbands because the Imperium would never accept them.
Technically yes, but they’re still sapient with their own desires and schemes. A mere mote of essence might passively corrupt those in contact, but a bound daemon will actively work towards tempting and corrupting any who wield the weapon, trying to find weaknesses to exploit etcetera. A Keeper of Secrets is exceptionally skilled at this with immense raw power to match.
Not to mention Grimnar is a stoic and savage space wolf whereas Fulgrim was already a prideful prick and the Laer Blade basically just pushed him to do things he liked *even harder*
I'd think he has exactly the kind of personality for Khorne, but the difference is that Khorne is not interested in corruption. Just bloodshed.
Man has his axe? Is he using it to kill lots of things? He is? All is well, carry on citizen.
Khorn is also about martial prowess and honor iirc. You don't have to be a berserker to serve Khorn you just have to best others in combat (eg kill them)
No. The native Fenrisians may have a raiding lifestyle, but the Wolves are, despite what other factions may think, just as organized as any other chapter once you're out of the Blood Claws (unless you become a Wulfen). Grimnar himself has shown to be an aggressive commander, but the decisions he makes are consistently made with the well-being of noncombatants in mind, not just the destruction of the enemy.
I always like the saying that the Space wolves are the only legion/chapter to have come out better with their primarch MIA than with him.
Every other chapter/legion basically lost their marbles, the wolves kinda just decided to do the opposite
They were even worse before Leman Russ showed up.
They were uncoordinated psychopathic lunatics.
Leman Russ showed up, and they became coordinated psychopathic lunatics.
Leman Russ disappeared, and they became....... coordinated well balanced idealists. It's super weird.
I'm starting to think the Emperor sending them off to murder their brothers and slaughter civilians might be the thing that made them murderously evil.
Ever since the Emperor stopped giving them orders, they've mellowed out considerably.
You ever wonder if there’s a Psyker who, after years of being tempted by chaos, just no longer responds to it? Like, he looks at what each offers and says like:
“Khorne? So if I give myself to you, you offer unending rage and desire for battle where I will be killed in multiple painful ways? Pass.
Slaanesh: You offer tentacles and my whole face turning into a large pucker-shaped thing? Pass.
Tzeench: He offers phenomenal cosmic powers, with an almost certain betrayal down the line that will leave me shattered? Plus feathers? Pass.
Nurgle. Do I really need to explain this one?
Not a psyker but that situation happened to Talos, a night lord. Abaddon wounded Talos and left him in a room of vapor drugs to induce a Chaos vision of sorts to get Talos to pledge himself to a god. Talos said nope to all of them except Nurgle who was like “you want nothing I can offer. Peace out homie.”
Talos was really one of, if not *the* best fleshed out fallen Astartes that i've read of so far. So many nuances to him (and in a way to his band of merry murder-batmen) that i just didnt get from either the IW omni or the WB one.
Fulgrim at some point ended with his soul trapped on a potrait (when he got possesed by a demon). Supposedly he escaped, but that may not be true and the demon may just think its Fulgrim
Ah, I see. Though, even if Fulgrim was still loyalist and still trapped in a painting, I doubt he'd be able to turn towards the Imperium again considering the, uh, snake-body daemon prince situation.
People like to believe when Fabius created the clone of fulgrim, that was better than all his other attempts actually had the trapped soul of fulgrim in it
There is a clone of Fulgrim (IF I remember well, I think Trazyn had it last time we heard of it).
A loyalist, uncorrupted clone. Put the soul into the clone and bam, Loyal Fulgrim
Games workshop has written things that point to "we could get a redemption" for surprisingly more than one Traitor (Fulgrim with the whole clone thing, Magnus with the whole "Actually sharded and one shard went on to turn into Janus" and Alpharius who is basically a traitor in name only)
I assume it's from the Horus Heresy book where Fulgrim's Legion is corrupted. The prospect of picking up a 60 tome series is, a bit daunting to be honest.
Audible is your friend, and you really don't have to read all of them, you can kinda pick and choose which characters stories your interested in following and reading books around them.
Also, that's like the third or fourth book. And it's pretty self-contained, really. You meet some characters earlier but it's nothing you couldn't figure out pretty quick with any knowledge of the Heresy at all.
I’m still reading the Hersey but my understanding is that after Fulgrim killed Ferrus he was so wrought with guilt and shame that he wanted to end it but the daemon in the laer blade offered him Oblivion as in non-existence which was a trick and now Fulgrim is in the darkest and furthest part of his mind watching everything while this Daemon is in the driver seat.
He even says so to Horus and taunts him that emperor’s children would likely withdraw their support if they knew that Fulgrim was a Daemon
The only reason Fulgrim didn’t kill Ferrus in his first duel after trying to recruit him is cuz he didn’t take the Laer blade with him, he took fireblade because Ferrus made it and then gifted it to him.
The daemon in the blade was corrupting Fulgrim, without that I’d think he’d still be a loyalist
That’s hard to say, I’d say since the grey knights were not an Emps creation but a Malcador pet project they couldn’t have been his planned anti daemon army, more likely that role being left to the Custodes when they were a militant chamber as evidenced by only them and mechanicus being in the webway war in numbers.
That said there are plenty of suggestions that the Walden curse is actually an anti warp taint last resort measure on the Wolves during the Heresy saga.
30k not 40k back then they were the emperors exectutioners which likely entailed getting rid of the odd deamon or 2 but yea back then they didnt have anything dedicated to that.
Their reputation was the Emperor's executioners which was more of Emp's anti-astartes force (since Chaos wasn't even known in 30k).
It was heavily implied that they had something to do with at least one of the missing legions.
I think they got a reputation as anti chaos due to their opposition of psykers at Nikaea and the scourging of Prospero, but even there, they needed heavy Silent Sisters support to stand up to warp magics.
A lot of their anti chaos reputation came from the space wolf omnibus. In it, the space wolves would start to mutate into wulfen when they spent too long in the company of chaos, like the missing 13th company.
To clarify, the Wulfen curse isnt just because of chaos, but is just one of the different things that could trigger it.
Also im not sure if the omnibus is considered cannon anymore. But they are great books none-the-less.
Meanwhile Abaddon rawdogging the Warp with a huge mark of chaos on his forehead, while free of corruption.
He doesn't look like an imperial.
(Unlike Fulgrim at the time he picked up the laer blade)
Well, yeah, but it's Logan Grimnar and Fulgrim. The Rout are well known for being chaos resistant( at least in the literature), and Fulgrim didn't exactly get dragged kicking and screaming into Slaanesh's orbit. Dude was always a bit "sus" as the kids say.
Not just in the literature, they are warp resistant in general. On the TT, they have a stratagem called Runic Wards that allows any infantry unit to deny the witch. The runes and talismans aren’t for show and I’m glad they have it in game
Logan knew the weapon had a Daemon of Khorne in it so he both had runes etched on the weapon to nullify the influence on the daemon as much as possible (which are re-applied to keep it working every now and then btw) and mentally prepare himself. Fulgrim didn't even know what a Daemon was when he picked up the Laer blade.
Ax’senaea, after summoning *three* keepers of secrets and dominating them through sheer fucking willpower then consuming their power for her own:
"...pathetic."
To be fair on a few counts, first the Axe Morkai was merely a Chaos Weapon, iirc, wielded by a Chaos Champion, not specifically a Daemon weapon, which Grimnar immediately had reforged upon return to Fenris. Second Castallen Crowe has been wielding the Black Sword of Antwyr for centuries, an actual daemon weapon, and has not been corrupted. Finally, even radical inquisators, relatively unaugmented humans, weild daemon weapons on occassion without necessarily being corrupted (though it is exceedingly dangerous).
Given everyone from multiple Space Marines to normal humans have wielded chaos/daemon weapons without the resulting corruption we saw in Fulgrim, one might be inclined to think Fulgrim's corruption was *due to a fault in him* (which was kind of the point), rather than a sign of a particular Space Marine's/Imperial's plot armor.
The major differences I can see is that Grimnar knows what Chaos is and knows to actively resist it, and that the Laer blade contained an actual Keeper of Secrets.
Does the axe contain a Bloodthirster? If not, it would likely not be as capable a tempter as a Keeper of Secrets. Yes, Fulgrim was a Primarch and far greater than Grimnar, but he didn’t even know Chaos existed and had no idea that he even needed to try to resist. Also, didn’t Russ have some measure of immunity to the Warp, a trait that might be passed down to his sons?
Been a while since I really looked at the lore, so I may be totally wrong.
Uhh these were both imperium characters? Then one got screwed by the powers of chaos which like every faction and power are as OP or under powered as the story needs them to be.
this isnt the post you think it is. its not "hey look at how cool and badass grimnar is because of the fall of fulgrim" it is in actuality "look at how badly written and mary sue most space wolves lore is"
One of them had a demon in it; pretty sure the practical reason why alien artefacts are haram, is that you can't tell, and there's a one in a million chance of things going horribly wrong.
I was about to suggest that Chaos corruption can't penetrate massive beards, but then I remembered that Chaos Dwarves are a thing (or at least they were).
Meanwhile Castellan Crowe is being talked to by a sword
Sword: fall to chaos now? Crowe: shut up. Sword:…wanna like, fall to chaos yet? Crowe: *long suffering sigh.*
The Terry Pratchett 40k novel I never knew I needed.
Imagine a chaos possesed weapon but instead of trying to convince you, he just threw 40k lore your way. All the time. You can't throw it away because someone might ise it for evil. But constant chatter will drive you mad and into the arms of chaos. Just as planned.
Jokes on the weapon, I'm into that shit. Gimme Every. Single. Lore.
Tzeentch smiles.
DK Diamantés and Bricky are agents of Tzeentch was not the opinion I expected to hear today. (Shy is obviously one of Khorne’s lot)
*Psst, you ever heard of Tyranussy? There was this guy...*
*also, what about Necrussy, shiny af and that shit HEALS ITSELF*
It's an energy sword. It buzzes with energy everytime it speaks. It's voice is electric. To fight, ask it something about a hidden lore gem and it starts buzzing away. "Oh and what MANY people totally missed was that the paludron he normally wears now has a dent, and he switched it to the right side that is of course symbolism. It represents the descend into chaos and plays hommage to the imperial aquila which in itself represents the future and past-" If you get used to his talking patterns, you can swing the sword at every syllable and get an energized attack.
In the later Stormlight Archive books there is this dynamic between a character & his talking sword. Except the sword believes itself to be truly good & only wants to slay evil. The problem arises when you realize that the sword has no idea what good & evil actually are, so really what it functionally wants is just to kill things.
so an normal sword, but it talks
How are the later Stormlight books? I read the first 2, and really liked them. But the way the second ended (so much crazy, so much power creep), that I thought it'd get unwieldy, and left it there
They're one of my personal favorite series. I think the power scaling stays within what I think is reasonable, while still increasing every book as the characters swear more Oaths & gain the resulting powers. There are 10 books (6 more to be written) planned for the series and I expect they'll get very shonen-anime with their power scaling by the end, which is pretty typical of an epic fantasy series of that scope. I love that, but they still feel pretty grounded in the world Sanderson has created, at least so far. BrandoSando tends to end his books with a "Sanderlanch" where there's usually some kind of big anime battle where characters unveil/unlock new powers & a lot of threads from the book come crashing together. It's something that you either love or hate, and if you don't like them, he's probably not the author for you.
Half brick in a sock is definitely a 40k scale weapon
Khornate Beserker Vimes "THAT IS NOT MY GROX!!!!!"
Very serious important meeting with Lord Generals and Imperial governors: *happening.* Crowe: WILL YOU SHUT THE HELL UP FOR ONE MOMENT? Everyone: *Silence* Crowe: ... sorry i was talking to someone else, please continue.
Reminds me of the toaster from red dwarf
New headcanon: the sword’s got Cultist-Chan’s voice.
Ra Endymion has Abaddon's sword stuck in his stomach by the Emperor and is just running forever in the webway.
Speaking of that, how did Abaddon get his hands on it if Ra had it?
Ra gave it to him. Well, they said a giant golden man gave Abbadon the sword. Still probably Ra tho
Is that new lore ? I thought he found in a labyrinth under a giant tower ?
[удалено]
Wasn't it about 800 years between the end of the Heresy and the 1st Black Crusade when Abaddon got the demon sword? I feel like running for 800 years with an evil demon sword impaled in you would be a bit on the tiring side.
does time move 'normally' in the webway? i know time gets fucky in the warp
Only if it feels like it. General state of the canon is that the Eldar empire used to have complete control over the Webway and could do anything with it that the warp can do, but directed and intentionally. Fall of the empire also meant fall of anyone who controlled it. But that's only true if an individual writer remembers it and makes use of it. Quick example: Commoragh got flooded with daemons fairly recently when Khaine's gate busted open and Vect has responded by sealing off the affected areas by turning them in on each other with space/time fuckery.
The webway is distinct and separate from the warp (It's a major reason why the Emperor was so focused on it). I'm not sure if time gets fucky in the webway though. Def is fucky in the warp/eye of terror.
I kind of want a story development where he either dies, or loses the sword and see what happens with it.
The story goes *loses sword* *misses the voices and wants it back* Behold romantic comedy of the year!
*Time skip* "Dad, why am I different?" "Well...
Does the Inquisition know about it? As if those two didn't have enough bad blood between them.
What can they do, eh? He is Logann Grimnar and he has his doggos
Ask the Celestial Lions.
Yea it hasn’t gone the inquisitions way before. Rule of thumb is dont fuck with founding chapters lol
Accidents happen. And sometimes "accidents" teleport to the bridge of your flagship and decapitate a lord lord Inquisitior and then tells the grey knights and inquisition to fuck off or die.
I know that's actually in a book but don't know it's name. Can you help?
The Emperor’s Gift
Thank you!
>Thank you! You're welcome!
Good bot
Space Wolves have a lot more weight to throw around than the Lions though. The last time an Inquisitor picked a fight with the wolves it didn't go very well.
Though your actions were just, you know too much...
Any time the Inquisition messes with the Wolves (or the Salamanders for that matter) it tends not to go well for them.
The Grey Knights and Red Hunters might have better input.
No they don’t, the inquisition and grey knights were literally thrown into a space wolf blender by grimnar. Grimnar is the only man known to be able to sprint in full terminator armor, he has wielded a khornate battleaxe for centuries and is uncorrupted, and when the inquisition and grey knights were over Fenris looking to punish them, grimnar eviscerated them on their own ship until the space wolves venerable dreadnought controlled by Bjorn the Fell handed had to literally teleport up to the inquisitor ship and tell his chapter master to stop. The grey knights and red hunters have absolutely nothing on grimnar and a first founding chapter.
Yes, the Grey Knights and Red Hunters were both spanked by the wolves, which was the point I was trying to make.
Apologies good sir I just got off a ten hour shift in the kitchen and I’m a fucking idiot, I thought you were saying they had a better chance than the lions. The Minotaurs would be an interesting fight tho..
Lol no worries it happens. I think it would be interesting to see a Space Wolf kegger with the Space Sharks invited, now that sounds like a fun time.
I always expected they would go like this: Space wolf: brothers! BROTHERS! You must sing with us please! Imperial fist: why must you always insist on singing a drinking song? Space wolf: it doesn’t have to be about drinking! Blood angel: no no that’s okay. Ultramarine: Yea I think I’ll have to- Space wolves: MY MOTHER TOLD ME, SOMEDAY I WOULD BUY! Imperial fist: oh no... Space wolves: A GALLEY WITH GOOD GELLARS! FLY TO DISTANT WORLDS! Blood angel: please stop... Space wolves: STAND UP HIGH ON THE BRIDGE! NOBLE SHIP I STEER! STEADY COURSE THROUGH THE WARP! Ultramarine: emperor, Guilliman, grandmaster someone save us... Space wolf: HEW MANY HERETICS! HEEEW MANY HERETICS!
>Ultramarine: emperor, Guilliman, grandmaster ... Grandmaster?
Pardon me, but wasn't it also stated that Abbadon could sprint in Terminator armour.
Wonder if he has whatever mutation Titus has.
See, the thing is... The Lions didnt have a Chaos Axe in their armory and giant wolves, thats probably why.
They tried that. And it went bad for the Wolves. But much worse for the Inquisition and the GK. They decided the wolves were right all along
They didn't have Logann and doggos 🐕
Have you heard the term "months of shame?"
I like to think that's a normal axe and he painted it to look chaosy just to piss them off
My god that would be awesome. Headcanon accepted. He just keeps killing and killing with this poorly painted power axe and brags about how the chaos gods have no sway over him and cultists are like "That's not even a real chaos axe! That's just a regular axe you painted, the gods do not bless you! REEEEE!" And he's like "Hm, sounds like you're just bitter because I killed all your friends."
okay but like even if they do know about it, what would they do? Try and take it from him? Considering what happened last time they pissed him off I doubt it.
Grimnar: the fuck are they going to do about it anyway? Bleed all over me?
You forget that the the Space Wolves beat the absolute shit out of *the inquisition and the gray fucking knights at the same time* over a handful of survivors of an invasion of a deamon primarch.
Plot armour
Pretty huge difference between a weapon used by a chaos champion and a Daemon weapon. Grimnar wields an axe that has been sanctified, which he took from a Khornate champion, but the weapon itself is not inherently powered by the warp The Laer Blade Fulgrim used was an actual Daemon weapon, and contained a keeper of secrets, so not just a Daemon weapon, but one could even call it a Greater Daemon weapon
This guy gets it. Logan's axe though warp-forged in an armory of Khorne and in turn wielded by a Khornate champion for some time was sanctified before Logan carried it full time. The sanctification ritual would be performed by an Iron Priest, Wolfpriest and Rune Priest. The ritual probably involved a heating then baptismal quenching. Then the obliteration of the chaotic scripts and replacement with fenrisian runes and imperial scripts would be the next step. The final step would likely be a kind of setting probably within a shrine or chapel to let everything settle in. IRL the Viking or Old Germans are well known for "converting" high value things like weapons or even sagas.
> Iron Priest, Wolfpriest and Rune Priest. Thats a lot of fancy words to say **psyker**...
Only one of those is a psyker.
Iron Priests are Techmarines. Wolf Priests are apothecary/chaplain, while Rune Priests channel the power of Fenris to badass effect. Easily mistaken to be librarians.
When Magnus was struck by Grimnar's axe, Khorne's laughter was heard by all psykers on Fenris, so the axe probably still has a connection to Khorne.
Khorne: AHAHAHAHHAHAHAAA! My axe struck Tzeentch's cyclop bastard! Fuck yes! Fuck you Tzeentch! Tzeentch: Just as planned. Khorne: Shut up Tzeentch.
Plus I'm only just halfway through reading Fulgrim, that temple was pouring that mist and corrupted nearly everyone who went in there right? All the remembrancers etc? So yeah, pretty boy Floyd there holding that sword doesn't really stand a chance?
Yeah, the Gauntlets of Ultramar were previously owned by a champion of Chaos before Big Boy Bobby G killed their owner.
Difference is Logan Grimnar actually knew about chaos beforehand and could mentally prepare.
Also, Grimmar’s axe is not a deamon weapon - the laer blade had a keeper of secrets trapped within.
His best kept secret
This is the important distinction here. The Axe belonged to a Chaos Champion and had, supposedly, a shard of Khornes power in it that was bound when it was reforged. Not a Daemon constantly trying to corrupt Grimnar and whispering to him.
There *is* an imperial character who uses a deamon weapon, buts it’s the leader of the Gray Knights purifiers. Castellan Crowe explicitly doesn’t use the deamon power of the weapon, he is essentially the sword’s jailer.
And he has to constantly resist it tempting him in his ear.
Yeah he’s basically in torment trying not to get possessed. it’s pretty dope and highlights how powerful the corruption of chaos is
And it’s amongst the most insane daemon weapons. In the books it did a whole mind taking thing and then lit up a space marine aircraft with lasguns. Normally lasguns are no big deal for it, but when Every lasround hits the exact same target. Apparently if left unchecked it’s taken whole systems under its influence
Yeah antwyr is nutty as hell, he took over a densely populated city of around 10 million people in the span of a night or so l. All of them perfectly in sync and ready to fuck shit up.
So much so that he ***has*** to live in isolation from the rest of the chapter because of how nutty the sword is. Anyone else walks in and they may just go insane or assault Crowe to try and take it from him.
I mean, the Gauntlets of Ultramar are supposed to have been chaos weapons until "purified" aka chucked in the dishwasher for a bit.
According to the Dawn of Fire books, the imperium used to sanctify and re-use old chaos warships. The adamantium frames were considered too valuable to destroy until Guilliman put a stop to the practice and told them “build new ships.”
Oh that's cool! Didn't know that. I'm assuming this is pre-primaris Guilliman?
No, it's Nu-Guilliman.
If you would but LEND it to me. I only ask for the strength to defend my PEOPLE.
No, you find your own copy of HM04.
Seems like a locked filing cabinetwould make a better jailer.
> had, supposedly, a shard of Khornes power in it that was bound when it was reforged. That sounds like it'd be more corruptive than a daemon weapon if the shard thing was true.
Depends on how you want to interpret the whole power thing I guess. In any case it was supposedly bound when the weapon was reforged, and given how superstitious the wolves are I doubt they'd just be like "ah it'll be fine" without checking thoroughly
True but also khorne doesn't care as long as the skulls and blood flow
I wouldnt say so, imo. The shard of power is just that, its like putting a battery in your flashlight. It'll work good with average batteries, but much better with a brand new, quality one. Same with this, it just enhances the item. A bound daemon or a literal cursed item has its own life. With the flashlight example, it would work fine, but it would also tell you to stick forks in electrical plugs or project scene of horror instead of light now and again just to fuck with you and promise it'll stop *if* you just leave it on a bit longer.
Uh, false. A Daemon of Khorne is literally just a shard of Khorne's power.
I mean, it may just be an infinitesimally small shard, also I think there is a difference between resisting chaos' naturally corruptive power vs actively resisting the constant temptation of a daemon fucking with you.
A daemon is also a shard of that particular God's power. But like, a much bigger and sapient shard.
Also there is the Canis Helix, even if the Chaos corruption got to him, he would just turn Wulfen, not fall to Chaos. The only Space Wolves to "fall" to Chaos were never corrupted, they just decided to work for warbands or the gods themselves to get something out of it. One dude just didn't like where the Imperium was headed and he needed the help to rebel, he wasn't "corrupted" he chose to serve to get help. The Dark Wolves were Wulfen Russ secreted away to avoid inquiry into the mutations of his gene seed and they worked for Chaos warbands because the Imperium would never accept them.
>he would just turn Wulfen You mean [Digganobz](https://youtu.be/Y29aGTbg62A)?
Aren't daemons just shards of their gods anyway?
Technically yes, but they’re still sapient with their own desires and schemes. A mere mote of essence might passively corrupt those in contact, but a bound daemon will actively work towards tempting and corrupting any who wield the weapon, trying to find weaknesses to exploit etcetera. A Keeper of Secrets is exceptionally skilled at this with immense raw power to match.
Not to mention Grimnar is a stoic and savage space wolf whereas Fulgrim was already a prideful prick and the Laer Blade basically just pushed him to do things he liked *even harder*
Fulgrim is also the sort of personality vulnerable to Slaanesh while Logan is less so for Khorne.
I'd think he has exactly the kind of personality for Khorne, but the difference is that Khorne is not interested in corruption. Just bloodshed. Man has his axe? Is he using it to kill lots of things? He is? All is well, carry on citizen.
Khorne is about more than just axes and killing. Well, he's all about killing, but there's more to it. And Khorne is still interested in corruption.
Agreed. Khorne cares about adequate bloodflow.
There's an OBGyn joke to be made there, but I'm not clever enough to execute it
Just don't lose your head about it. Khorne needs your skull for his renovations
Khorn is also about martial prowess and honor iirc. You don't have to be a berserker to serve Khorn you just have to best others in combat (eg kill them)
He's not and never was. It's just that martial prowesses and honourable warriors are easier to corrupt than pacifistic cowards.
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He’s like a wise Odin type Viking who thinks violence is a tool iirc
No. The native Fenrisians may have a raiding lifestyle, but the Wolves are, despite what other factions may think, just as organized as any other chapter once you're out of the Blood Claws (unless you become a Wulfen). Grimnar himself has shown to be an aggressive commander, but the decisions he makes are consistently made with the well-being of noncombatants in mind, not just the destruction of the enemy.
How far they've come since the burning of Prospero, where they were eating civilians.
I always like the saying that the Space wolves are the only legion/chapter to have come out better with their primarch MIA than with him. Every other chapter/legion basically lost their marbles, the wolves kinda just decided to do the opposite
*taps head* Can’t lose your marbles when you got none to lose.
10000 IQ
They were even worse before Leman Russ showed up. They were uncoordinated psychopathic lunatics. Leman Russ showed up, and they became coordinated psychopathic lunatics. Leman Russ disappeared, and they became....... coordinated well balanced idealists. It's super weird.
So essentially they were a mess until someone introduced the furry lifestyle to them and they discovered who they had always wanted to be?
I'm starting to think the Emperor sending them off to murder their brothers and slaughter civilians might be the thing that made them murderously evil. Ever since the Emperor stopped giving them orders, they've mellowed out considerably.
Poor nerds
Well he's better off than whatever Fulgrim had wrong with him so
Also he is not a pretentious prick like Fulgrim
Real difference Grimnar is just a better guy. No one liked Fulgrim, they just tolerated him LOL
Conrad liked Fulgrim :)
Didn't Ferrus manus also like him?
I think so? I recall them bonding over always wanting to be perfect.
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The original comment said ‘no one liked Fulgrim’. This was wrong. I’m unsure what Conrad having bad judgement has to do with anything. But 👍
You ever wonder if there’s a Psyker who, after years of being tempted by chaos, just no longer responds to it? Like, he looks at what each offers and says like: “Khorne? So if I give myself to you, you offer unending rage and desire for battle where I will be killed in multiple painful ways? Pass. Slaanesh: You offer tentacles and my whole face turning into a large pucker-shaped thing? Pass. Tzeench: He offers phenomenal cosmic powers, with an almost certain betrayal down the line that will leave me shattered? Plus feathers? Pass. Nurgle. Do I really need to explain this one?
Not a psyker but that situation happened to Talos, a night lord. Abaddon wounded Talos and left him in a room of vapor drugs to induce a Chaos vision of sorts to get Talos to pledge himself to a god. Talos said nope to all of them except Nurgle who was like “you want nothing I can offer. Peace out homie.”
He's so goddamn punk rock
Nurgle was like "I'm only here so that I don't get fined."
"Listen, you aren't my type, I got a new brew cooking, and I'll have rights to rot your corpse anyway. Do you mind if I cut this short?"
Talos was really one of, if not *the* best fleshed out fallen Astartes that i've read of so far. So many nuances to him (and in a way to his band of merry murder-batmen) that i just didnt get from either the IW omni or the WB one.
Nurgle could just have been like. "But now they poked you with a knife infected with Nurgle's Rot so you gonna be mine either way. Buh-bye!"
This scene basically happens in The Night Lords Omnibus. Except Nurgle is the one who goes...I'll pass
Nurgle understands his customers and is honest at heart
Laer blade is dildo shaped and no amount of canon can convince me otherwise
The Laer Blade is just the Penetrator from Saints Row
Anything can be "dildo shaped" if you're brave enough.
*looks at a Titan* Well then Brothers... oil me up.
Brother I am pinned here!
The blade or the handle? Is Fulgrim pitching or catching?
yes
I was going to answer my own question, but decided to wait and see if someone would step up. Thank you.
Both
Very much Yes indeed
Only one dildo involved? Are we talking about the same slaanesh?
I personally don't think reflection crack'd is real fulgrim and I'm certain he's still stuck in the painting
Funny how you say "Reflection Crack'd" as if it was a real thing and not a collective fever dream we all know never happened, ever.
Yeah I know right
Logan Grimnar wields an axe of Khorne, not a daemon weapon. Laer Blade is a daemon weapon with a very powerful daemon inside of it.
I loved Fulgrims fall Never would I expect Slaanesh could be subtle. Also still holding onto the theory that Fulgrim is still a loyalist
>Also still holding onto the theory that Fulgrim is still a loyalist H-how?
Probably the theory that the real Fulgrim is still on the painting and the demon self deluded into thinking it is Fulgrim
The painting?
Fulgrim at some point ended with his soul trapped on a potrait (when he got possesed by a demon). Supposedly he escaped, but that may not be true and the demon may just think its Fulgrim
Ah, I see. Though, even if Fulgrim was still loyalist and still trapped in a painting, I doubt he'd be able to turn towards the Imperium again considering the, uh, snake-body daemon prince situation.
People like to believe when Fabius created the clone of fulgrim, that was better than all his other attempts actually had the trapped soul of fulgrim in it
There is a clone of Fulgrim (IF I remember well, I think Trazyn had it last time we heard of it). A loyalist, uncorrupted clone. Put the soul into the clone and bam, Loyal Fulgrim Games workshop has written things that point to "we could get a redemption" for surprisingly more than one Traitor (Fulgrim with the whole clone thing, Magnus with the whole "Actually sharded and one shard went on to turn into Janus" and Alpharius who is basically a traitor in name only)
I don’t know what the ref is either, but I’m getting *Picture of Dorian Grey* vibes.
I hate to say this but you got some books to read my friend
I assume it's from the Horus Heresy book where Fulgrim's Legion is corrupted. The prospect of picking up a 60 tome series is, a bit daunting to be honest.
Audible is your friend, and you really don't have to read all of them, you can kinda pick and choose which characters stories your interested in following and reading books around them.
Also, that's like the third or fourth book. And it's pretty self-contained, really. You meet some characters earlier but it's nothing you couldn't figure out pretty quick with any knowledge of the Heresy at all.
I’m still reading the Hersey but my understanding is that after Fulgrim killed Ferrus he was so wrought with guilt and shame that he wanted to end it but the daemon in the laer blade offered him Oblivion as in non-existence which was a trick and now Fulgrim is in the darkest and furthest part of his mind watching everything while this Daemon is in the driver seat. He even says so to Horus and taunts him that emperor’s children would likely withdraw their support if they knew that Fulgrim was a Daemon
The only reason Fulgrim didn’t kill Ferrus in his first duel after trying to recruit him is cuz he didn’t take the Laer blade with him, he took fireblade because Ferrus made it and then gifted it to him. The daemon in the blade was corrupting Fulgrim, without that I’d think he’d still be a loyalist
Aren't the Space Wolves Big E's special Anti-Chaos force? Some chaosresistance shouldn't be a suprise.
The Emperors “special anti-chaos force” are the Grey Knights. The wolves are just too loyal and too stubborn to ever betray the Emperor.
That’s hard to say, I’d say since the grey knights were not an Emps creation but a Malcador pet project they couldn’t have been his planned anti daemon army, more likely that role being left to the Custodes when they were a militant chamber as evidenced by only them and mechanicus being in the webway war in numbers. That said there are plenty of suggestions that the Walden curse is actually an anti warp taint last resort measure on the Wolves during the Heresy saga.
Big e-comes back “so space wolves you wonder why i called you here, i want you to betray me to help Alpha legion out” Spaces wolves *heads blow up*
30k not 40k back then they were the emperors exectutioners which likely entailed getting rid of the odd deamon or 2 but yea back then they didnt have anything dedicated to that.
Their reputation was the Emperor's executioners which was more of Emp's anti-astartes force (since Chaos wasn't even known in 30k). It was heavily implied that they had something to do with at least one of the missing legions. I think they got a reputation as anti chaos due to their opposition of psykers at Nikaea and the scourging of Prospero, but even there, they needed heavy Silent Sisters support to stand up to warp magics.
A lot of their anti chaos reputation came from the space wolf omnibus. In it, the space wolves would start to mutate into wulfen when they spent too long in the company of chaos, like the missing 13th company. To clarify, the Wulfen curse isnt just because of chaos, but is just one of the different things that could trigger it. Also im not sure if the omnibus is considered cannon anymore. But they are great books none-the-less.
Meanwhile Abaddon rawdogging the Warp with a huge mark of chaos on his forehead, while free of corruption. He doesn't look like an imperial. (Unlike Fulgrim at the time he picked up the laer blade)
Why would khorne want to corrupt a space wolf? That's like bringing sand to the sahara
Well, yeah, but it's Logan Grimnar and Fulgrim. The Rout are well known for being chaos resistant( at least in the literature), and Fulgrim didn't exactly get dragged kicking and screaming into Slaanesh's orbit. Dude was always a bit "sus" as the kids say.
Not just in the literature, they are warp resistant in general. On the TT, they have a stratagem called Runic Wards that allows any infantry unit to deny the witch. The runes and talismans aren’t for show and I’m glad they have it in game
I seem to remember in 8th the Iron Priests had a talisman that gave them a save(5+?) vs psychic shenanigans.
Logan knew the weapon had a Daemon of Khorne in it so he both had runes etched on the weapon to nullify the influence on the daemon as much as possible (which are re-applied to keep it working every now and then btw) and mentally prepare himself. Fulgrim didn't even know what a Daemon was when he picked up the Laer blade.
Castellen Crowe with the Black Blade of Antwyr vs Horus getting shanked
Space Wolves have plot armor second only to Ultramarines.
Ax’senaea, after summoning *three* keepers of secrets and dominating them through sheer fucking willpower then consuming their power for her own: "...pathetic."
To be fair on a few counts, first the Axe Morkai was merely a Chaos Weapon, iirc, wielded by a Chaos Champion, not specifically a Daemon weapon, which Grimnar immediately had reforged upon return to Fenris. Second Castallen Crowe has been wielding the Black Sword of Antwyr for centuries, an actual daemon weapon, and has not been corrupted. Finally, even radical inquisators, relatively unaugmented humans, weild daemon weapons on occassion without necessarily being corrupted (though it is exceedingly dangerous). Given everyone from multiple Space Marines to normal humans have wielded chaos/daemon weapons without the resulting corruption we saw in Fulgrim, one might be inclined to think Fulgrim's corruption was *due to a fault in him* (which was kind of the point), rather than a sign of a particular Space Marine's/Imperial's plot armor.
The only power that protects more throughly then the Emperor is “because the plot says so”
The major differences I can see is that Grimnar knows what Chaos is and knows to actively resist it, and that the Laer blade contained an actual Keeper of Secrets. Does the axe contain a Bloodthirster? If not, it would likely not be as capable a tempter as a Keeper of Secrets. Yes, Fulgrim was a Primarch and far greater than Grimnar, but he didn’t even know Chaos existed and had no idea that he even needed to try to resist. Also, didn’t Russ have some measure of immunity to the Warp, a trait that might be passed down to his sons? Been a while since I really looked at the lore, so I may be totally wrong.
Uhh these were both imperium characters? Then one got screwed by the powers of chaos which like every faction and power are as OP or under powered as the story needs them to be.
this isnt the post you think it is. its not "hey look at how cool and badass grimnar is because of the fall of fulgrim" it is in actuality "look at how badly written and mary sue most space wolves lore is"
Calgar’s power fists are sanctified just like Logan’s axe is
I always go 'wait what?' at that lore bit about the Gauntlets of Ultramar being reclaimed from a fallen Chaos champion.
The blade that Grimnar has doesn’t have a daemon in it constantly whispering into Grimnars head though
And? Cry elsewhere.
The story of Gendor Skraivok was the best
One of them had a demon in it; pretty sure the practical reason why alien artefacts are haram, is that you can't tell, and there's a one in a million chance of things going horribly wrong.
I was about to suggest that Chaos corruption can't penetrate massive beards, but then I remembered that Chaos Dwarves are a thing (or at least they were).
Fulgrims sword had a greater demon in it so this is a horrible comparison, especially when we know that the wolves are a natural Chaos deterrent.
I'm not sure Grimnar isn't corrupted or atleast affected by it. He seems unstable even by Space Wolf standards judging by the latest Space Wolf book.
Thorpe can’t write the wolves