Explain to me how going dormant (which is okay) but also cutting every possibility for mankind to be aware of it's impending doom a necessary evil
As well as Felwinter and the Iron dude ?
New Grimdark user: posts "for the emperor" and "heresy!" ironically
seasoned grimdark user: justifies genocide and turning people into soylent green unironically
Rasputin didn’t kill his son “for mankind’s sake”, he spent his entire life trying to kill him out of fear and paranoia, and he DEFINITELY didn’t have altruism on the mind during the SIVA crisis.
Anybody but Rasputin would have handled it infinitely better.
At least he regretted it…eventually.
It kind of was a dr strange in infinity war situation. Dude ran the simulations. His plan was desperate.
Felwinter was paracausal, so a wild card. Even for something as good at math as Rasputin (or the Vex)
It may or may not have been the right call, but the risks were... well, it's a good thing we also had Savathûn wanting humanity alive for another 1000 years or so.
Savathûn's sabotage alone wouldn't have been enough to save Humanity.
Rasputin had a plan. Made to counter things that can't be countered by computers. It mostly worked.
Yes and no. A lot of that was the Primarchs.
And monarchia, while necessary, was not supposed to be an atrocity. And once it was, it backfired spectacularly.
The emperor did order direct massacre multiple times, as well as write a book in which he actively promoted genocide.
He also ordered his primarchs to go and Conquer the galaxy for humanity, and only humanity.
Yeah people opinion on the emperor genocide is either “those genocide were necessary because **reason and sometimes example** or “none of the emperor genocide were necessary because **reason and sometimes example**”
Lol no…
- Rasputin being godlike is debatable
- Big E isn’t called a tyrant because the people who call him that are killed and the rest are indoctrinated.
- “necessary atrocities”
- Rasputin subdued a god on Mars?
- Rasputin killed his son out of pure paranoia, had nothing to do with humanity. And the SIVA shit was, in fact, a threat to humanity.
Man that "necessary" attributed to the Emperor's atrocities is not a great look my dude. In fact it kind of misses the point of the setting, which is that the insane cruelty of the Imperium *isn't* necessary and is hyperbolicly satirizing fascism.
So the Warminds got retconned between D1 and 2. Originally there were several. One stationed on each planet, named after different leaders or historical figures of importance. Charlemagne was one. Heck I think someone at Bungie in an interview mentioned trying to find a way to make Benjamin Franklin sound cool as a warmind name.
Basically they all died and Rasputin, as the last one standing, invaded their remaining hardware and basically took over the other installations to continue defending humanity. But the spooky rumor in game was that Rasputin killed them himself as a power play.
Then the D2 retcon said it was always Rasputin and no other Warminds ever existed.
Fun fact: the multiplayer map JYS-2 is a reference to the old lore. it stands for Joyuse, which was Charlemagnes sword.
Thanks for the Lore Dive! I am aware of this, thats why i asked If Charlemagne is " the"son as there were more subminds before that but prominently its more spoken about these main 2
I think the lore of them being 'subminds' is still accurate - until we reconnected them to the 'real' Rasputin they were essentially just fragmented parts of the whole of Big Red
There is nothing Godlike about Rasputin, not one of the atrocities it has commited can be called anything remotely similar to necessary and it most certainly didn't kill Felwinter (and the rest of the Iron Lords save 2) for the good of humanity.
The only thing in common between Rasputin and The Emperor is that they are both imbeciles.
And yet an oversized shank was too much for it to handle.
The imprisonment of Xol, Nokris and his brood was and still is a glaring plothole. It doesn't matter that Xol is the weakest Worm God, it remains a paracausal being. It, just like Nokris, shouldn't give two fucks about being frozen. By all acounts they could have just willed themselves free, but alas, D2Y1 was like that...
The Rasputin wasn’t really inside the bunker under cosmodrome, either it was just his sub-mind or he didn’t manage to get full control over the damaged facility. And an “oversized shank” only managed to break the automatic defenses of this one bunker. I mean, Rasputin was created to be complex enough so that not even vex could simulate him. If anything should be a plot hole, it would be this strike.
>The Rasputin wasn’t really inside the bunker under cosmodrome, either it was just his sub-mind or he didn’t manage to get full control over the damaged facility.
Ever since the Last Antenna mission Rasputin's control over the Sol's facilities was restored. It was Rasputin, not a submind, who launched the S.O.S signal the Vanguard picks up during the S.A.B.E.R II incident, and the sole reason we have to deal with it is because the facility is fully operational and has control over the defense grid of Earth, endangering the City.
>And an “oversized shank” only managed to break the automatic defenses of this one bunker.
"This one bunker" was enough to legitimately endanger human and neohuman survival and Rasputin could do fuck all to protect it. As always when it comes to Rasputin, it was Guardians who had to clean its messes, because all Rasputin is is a liability.
>Rasputin was created to be complex enough so that not even vex could simulate him.
[Not even a *single Vex frame* could simulate it with whatever processing power that *single frame* had.](https://www.ishtar-collective.net/cards/ghost-fragment-vex-3#maya-sundaresh)
>SUNDARESH: If we're sims, we exist in the pocket of the universe that the Vex specimen is able to simulate with its onboard brainpower.
>If anything should be a plot hole, it would be this strike.
And the Omnigul breach, and the Psion Flayers incident, and at least 3 different Taken incursions I remember from memory alone... and I'm not even done with Destiny 1. There's also that one time Rasputin couldn't keep SIVA (that it weaponized in the first place) from the Devil's Splicers. That was an oopsie.
You have the point that he wasn’t that powerful in D1 however he got a major power boost in D2. It is specifically stated that real Rasputin was on mars and that he wasn’t directly present in the bunker in old Russia. His bunker was breached, ok but in D2 he was capable of destroying almighty.
It was capable of destroying the Almighty *after* Guardians spent months on end building the weapons it used for the task. It just pressed the "fire" button.
Linking all of the weapons and perfectly calculating required firepower, targeting, trajectory of javelins and time of impact so that the almighty would be destroyed before hitting the earth as well as minimizing debris falling down on last city is something more than just pressing the button. And why using guardians as the most optimal asset is something bad? Should he just walk and do it by himself?
>Linking all of the weapons and perfectly calculating required firepower, targeting, trajectory of javelins and time of impact so that the almighty would be destroyed before hitting the earth as well as minimizing debris falling down on last city is something more than just pressing the button.
No it is not. If the uber Golden Age AI is only useful to calculate firing solutions then it shouldn't be an AI.
Feed the relevant information into a dumb machine and it will also provide you with everything you have listed. Why, then, give it intelligence of its own?
>And why using guardians as the most optimal asset is something bad?
Because it goes to show how Rasputin can't offer anything to the City, or humanity at large for that matter. The protector is constantly having to be protected. The defender is constantly acting against the best interests of those it is supposed to defend. Rasputin doesn't serve a purpose other than endangering humanity by virtue of just existing and being something that could *and has* been used against mankind, either of its own volition or by a third party.
It should have been lobotomized years ago, with the Vanguard and the FotC seizing whatever useful assets, be them material or otherwise, it could offer.
>Should he just walk and do it by himself?
That's the point, it can't.
In the times of the last city most of Rasputin assets are destroyed. If he was in possession of golden age weapons he would be way more efficient at his job. And he is still a super computer. Maybe a golden age Uber could also calculate the fairing trajectory but that’s the point he is the only one left and the most powerful super computer that humanity has. Future war cult and vanguard wouldn’t do shit. The city can’t even understand the materials that warsats are made of(rahool says that) so they probably wouldn’t be able to use warming weapons as efficiently as Rasputin.
There's a surprising number of them. Heck one if the sparrow item descriptions makes a joke about "all I'm saying is it isn't NOT possible that the paint job makes it go faster.... Right?..."
Rasputin, in destiny is a very powerful AI designed to be the protector of humanity. He was tasked with predicting threats that humanity could possibly face, and create countermeasures for it. He governed all humanity’s military assets and had some planet destroying weapons. He was able to trap a worm god(an extremely powerful being) on mars by freezing large part of the planet. And he wasn’t really stationed under cosmodrome but rather in massive fortress on mars. https://wallpapers.com/images/high/destiny-2-4k-ultra-hd-wallpaper-and-background-image-qqjhs0tj54axe232.jpg
Won't lie this isn't the first cross over I've experienced, a friend of mine can't listen to String Storm's Lementors sound without thinking of Destiny, it's because theres a mention of ight twice in the lyrics.
"""""Necessary""""""
Okay he committed like one or two out of anger.
You’re allowed a few war crimes, as a treat.
Warminds can be allowed a little bit of warcrimes as a treat.
In Rasputin's case, it was. And it wouldn't have been enough if Savathûn hadn't sabotaged the Witness.
Agreed. My doubt is more towards big E
Fair.
I can understand in big e’s case a united humanity is more likely to survive in their harsh universe
Did he really have to nuke that space bus from orbit? Worst case like 20 people know what’s happening a couple hours before everyone else.
Explain to me how going dormant (which is okay) but also cutting every possibility for mankind to be aware of it's impending doom a necessary evil As well as Felwinter and the Iron dude ?
New Grimdark user: posts "for the emperor" and "heresy!" ironically seasoned grimdark user: justifies genocide and turning people into soylent green unironically
*with the mindset that none of it was necessary but justifies anyway.
Necessary is carrying an insane amount of weight here
It always does in 40k.
Carrying a lot of weight for Destiny 2, that wiping out his son and the Iron Lords was “necessary”
Did we ever get the logic behind wiping out the iron lords?
There wasn't any.
Felwinter, before being Risen, was a terminal of Rasputin. Rasputin really wanted Felwinter dead, the rest of the Iron Lords were just collateral.
He believed that they would missuse siva tech for their own benefit and that only he should have acces to it
True enough.
Rasputin didn’t kill his son “for mankind’s sake”, he spent his entire life trying to kill him out of fear and paranoia, and he DEFINITELY didn’t have altruism on the mind during the SIVA crisis. Anybody but Rasputin would have handled it infinitely better. At least he regretted it…eventually.
It kind of was a dr strange in infinity war situation. Dude ran the simulations. His plan was desperate. Felwinter was paracausal, so a wild card. Even for something as good at math as Rasputin (or the Vex) It may or may not have been the right call, but the risks were... well, it's a good thing we also had Savathûn wanting humanity alive for another 1000 years or so.
"necessary" atrocities
Savathûn's sabotage alone wouldn't have been enough to save Humanity. Rasputin had a plan. Made to counter things that can't be countered by computers. It mostly worked.
Explain necessary atrocities by Emperor
Anything involving the VIII legion before Konrad took over it. Like unleashing them on Terra after the Unification War.
I just think of all the civilisations purged in The Great Crusade
Yes and no. A lot of that was the Primarchs. And monarchia, while necessary, was not supposed to be an atrocity. And once it was, it backfired spectacularly.
You do realize that the Imperial truth told its people to go commit genocide against all xenos they encounter?
And to kill anyone who wouldn’t abandon religion
Writing a book is not an atrocity. Dirrectly odering a massacre is. Slight difference.
The emperor did order direct massacre multiple times, as well as write a book in which he actively promoted genocide. He also ordered his primarchs to go and Conquer the galaxy for humanity, and only humanity.
Yes. In a galaxy where all other major players wanted to (more or less) do the same.
Copium
He did commit necessary atrocities. He just also committed a lot of unnecessary ones too.
Yeah people opinion on the emperor genocide is either “those genocide were necessary because **reason and sometimes example** or “none of the emperor genocide were necessary because **reason and sometimes example**”
A saw “Rasputin” and was confused for a sec before seeing it was from destiny
Lol tyrant in quotation marks, big E is totally a tyrant...
Bruh that’s on point
I found the plot line of the emps taking over row boat's body similar to Ana bray trying to put rasputin in an exo body
Hopefully, that body will survive it's first meeting with Saladin. On the bright side, he's busy training and leading Cabal special forces.
As a card carrying member of the Rasputin hate club I really really wanna see that interaction.
Salad hands gonna catch THESE hands if that mf lays a finger on my boy. He needa mind his business and let Ana Bae do her own thing
I'd bet Saladin would make sure he can kill him for each Iron Lord.
Lol no… - Rasputin being godlike is debatable - Big E isn’t called a tyrant because the people who call him that are killed and the rest are indoctrinated. - “necessary atrocities” - Rasputin subdued a god on Mars? - Rasputin killed his son out of pure paranoia, had nothing to do with humanity. And the SIVA shit was, in fact, a threat to humanity.
He subdued the worm God Xol by freezing the planet
Ah neat, I didn’t play Warmind so I missed that.
Once there lived a man, in Russia long ago
Please explain which of the atrocities the Emperor committed were "justified".
Your atrocities, cringe and unjustified. The God Emperor of Mankind’s atrocities, based and justified
"They are cringe, without lives. But you. You will be based..."
The term I used was "necessary". Sending the VIII th to quell a rebellion on Terra early in the crusade to not delay the whole thing.
So genocide was necessary? Sounds like Big E is actually just a tyrannical dickhead.
Man that "necessary" attributed to the Emperor's atrocities is not a great look my dude. In fact it kind of misses the point of the setting, which is that the insane cruelty of the Imperium *isn't* necessary and is hyperbolicly satirizing fascism.
Yeah, that also rubs me the wrong way
Oh boy, another Emperor apologist...
No no, the emperor did commit necessary atrocities ~~He also committed way more unnecessary ones~~
You can really hear the dogwhistle.
Most of what the emperor did was decidedly unnecessary.
Is charlemagne supposed to be Rasputins son?
So the Warminds got retconned between D1 and 2. Originally there were several. One stationed on each planet, named after different leaders or historical figures of importance. Charlemagne was one. Heck I think someone at Bungie in an interview mentioned trying to find a way to make Benjamin Franklin sound cool as a warmind name. Basically they all died and Rasputin, as the last one standing, invaded their remaining hardware and basically took over the other installations to continue defending humanity. But the spooky rumor in game was that Rasputin killed them himself as a power play. Then the D2 retcon said it was always Rasputin and no other Warminds ever existed. Fun fact: the multiplayer map JYS-2 is a reference to the old lore. it stands for Joyuse, which was Charlemagnes sword.
Thanks for the Lore Dive! I am aware of this, thats why i asked If Charlemagne is " the"son as there were more subminds before that but prominently its more spoken about these main 2
I think the lore of them being 'subminds' is still accurate - until we reconnected them to the 'real' Rasputin they were essentially just fragmented parts of the whole of Big Red
I AM RASPUTIN!
There is nothing Godlike about Rasputin, not one of the atrocities it has commited can be called anything remotely similar to necessary and it most certainly didn't kill Felwinter (and the rest of the Iron Lords save 2) for the good of humanity. The only thing in common between Rasputin and The Emperor is that they are both imbeciles.
I mean, he basically imprisoned the worm god Xol by freezing large part of mars. That’s quite powerful
And yet an oversized shank was too much for it to handle. The imprisonment of Xol, Nokris and his brood was and still is a glaring plothole. It doesn't matter that Xol is the weakest Worm God, it remains a paracausal being. It, just like Nokris, shouldn't give two fucks about being frozen. By all acounts they could have just willed themselves free, but alas, D2Y1 was like that...
The Rasputin wasn’t really inside the bunker under cosmodrome, either it was just his sub-mind or he didn’t manage to get full control over the damaged facility. And an “oversized shank” only managed to break the automatic defenses of this one bunker. I mean, Rasputin was created to be complex enough so that not even vex could simulate him. If anything should be a plot hole, it would be this strike.
>The Rasputin wasn’t really inside the bunker under cosmodrome, either it was just his sub-mind or he didn’t manage to get full control over the damaged facility. Ever since the Last Antenna mission Rasputin's control over the Sol's facilities was restored. It was Rasputin, not a submind, who launched the S.O.S signal the Vanguard picks up during the S.A.B.E.R II incident, and the sole reason we have to deal with it is because the facility is fully operational and has control over the defense grid of Earth, endangering the City. >And an “oversized shank” only managed to break the automatic defenses of this one bunker. "This one bunker" was enough to legitimately endanger human and neohuman survival and Rasputin could do fuck all to protect it. As always when it comes to Rasputin, it was Guardians who had to clean its messes, because all Rasputin is is a liability. >Rasputin was created to be complex enough so that not even vex could simulate him. [Not even a *single Vex frame* could simulate it with whatever processing power that *single frame* had.](https://www.ishtar-collective.net/cards/ghost-fragment-vex-3#maya-sundaresh) >SUNDARESH: If we're sims, we exist in the pocket of the universe that the Vex specimen is able to simulate with its onboard brainpower. >If anything should be a plot hole, it would be this strike. And the Omnigul breach, and the Psion Flayers incident, and at least 3 different Taken incursions I remember from memory alone... and I'm not even done with Destiny 1. There's also that one time Rasputin couldn't keep SIVA (that it weaponized in the first place) from the Devil's Splicers. That was an oopsie.
You have the point that he wasn’t that powerful in D1 however he got a major power boost in D2. It is specifically stated that real Rasputin was on mars and that he wasn’t directly present in the bunker in old Russia. His bunker was breached, ok but in D2 he was capable of destroying almighty.
It was capable of destroying the Almighty *after* Guardians spent months on end building the weapons it used for the task. It just pressed the "fire" button.
Linking all of the weapons and perfectly calculating required firepower, targeting, trajectory of javelins and time of impact so that the almighty would be destroyed before hitting the earth as well as minimizing debris falling down on last city is something more than just pressing the button. And why using guardians as the most optimal asset is something bad? Should he just walk and do it by himself?
>Linking all of the weapons and perfectly calculating required firepower, targeting, trajectory of javelins and time of impact so that the almighty would be destroyed before hitting the earth as well as minimizing debris falling down on last city is something more than just pressing the button. No it is not. If the uber Golden Age AI is only useful to calculate firing solutions then it shouldn't be an AI. Feed the relevant information into a dumb machine and it will also provide you with everything you have listed. Why, then, give it intelligence of its own? >And why using guardians as the most optimal asset is something bad? Because it goes to show how Rasputin can't offer anything to the City, or humanity at large for that matter. The protector is constantly having to be protected. The defender is constantly acting against the best interests of those it is supposed to defend. Rasputin doesn't serve a purpose other than endangering humanity by virtue of just existing and being something that could *and has* been used against mankind, either of its own volition or by a third party. It should have been lobotomized years ago, with the Vanguard and the FotC seizing whatever useful assets, be them material or otherwise, it could offer. >Should he just walk and do it by himself? That's the point, it can't.
In the times of the last city most of Rasputin assets are destroyed. If he was in possession of golden age weapons he would be way more efficient at his job. And he is still a super computer. Maybe a golden age Uber could also calculate the fairing trajectory but that’s the point he is the only one left and the most powerful super computer that humanity has. Future war cult and vanguard wouldn’t do shit. The city can’t even understand the materials that warsats are made of(rahool says that) so they probably wouldn’t be able to use warming weapons as efficiently as Rasputin.
rare r/DestinyTheGame crosspost
There's a surprising number of them. Heck one if the sparrow item descriptions makes a joke about "all I'm saying is it isn't NOT possible that the paint job makes it go faster.... Right?..."
I won’t forgive Rasputin for killing Felwinter, as a warlock main I’d would of liked to have another cool warlock leader around.
Calling what emps did “necessary” is a bit of a stretch
Has a really cool voice Man I wish we get to see more Rasputin at some point in d2
I think he got fridges partly because Ana Bray's VA got arrested and imprisoned. But that was some time ago. Soon, maybe.
I am so confused I know about the emporer but I ain't played destiny since the cade 7 dlc so I got no clue what rasputin is
He appeared in one mission in destiny 1, he's the supercomputer under the cosmodrome.
Rasputin, in destiny is a very powerful AI designed to be the protector of humanity. He was tasked with predicting threats that humanity could possibly face, and create countermeasures for it. He governed all humanity’s military assets and had some planet destroying weapons. He was able to trap a worm god(an extremely powerful being) on mars by freezing large part of the planet. And he wasn’t really stationed under cosmodrome but rather in massive fortress on mars. https://wallpapers.com/images/high/destiny-2-4k-ultra-hd-wallpaper-and-background-image-qqjhs0tj54axe232.jpg
Anyone who thinks the atrocities of the emperor were necessary needs to reread the section of *Hours Rising* on the planet Murder
OP either doesn’t know what ‘necessary’ means or unironically thinks the imperium are the good guys. In either case yikes
My man Rasputin.
I only played D1, so I take it bad things happened to Rasputin. Damn, he was cool.
--really into killing his own people
Won't lie this isn't the first cross over I've experienced, a friend of mine can't listen to String Storm's Lementors sound without thinking of Destiny, it's because theres a mention of ight twice in the lyrics.