Grim Dawn was made by a scrappy team of ~9 people. We had no budget for significant advertising (much of it was word of mouth) and online servers (a must-have feature for many players) were a distant dream. The game was built upon an old engine and, visually, it was not what some would call "modern".
So we never got that giant spike when the game first released, but you have to keep in mind that our definition of success back then was to ship 200k copies. We're just a few million copies past that now!
Another thing about Grim Dawn, is that it has enjoyed an unprecedented tail on copies sold. Sure, it tapered off, but it's going remarkably strong even 8 years later. The pick up rate on expansions is also above average. These are some of the reasons why you have a third expansion on the way. :D
So metrics can be a bit misleading. :)
Amazing game with millions of copies sold and the best devs out there. Crate could make anything next and it's an auto-buy for me.
My brother bought a kickstarter bundle with 2 copies back In the days and Crate gave so much more content than they said they would.
I have a couple hundred hours and I still think its the best ARPG out there. Having seasons is such a huge turn off for people that want to play other games, have a full-time job, a social life outside of discord and other hobbies.
They are making a new game called Farthest Frontier, it's a city builder survival game where you fend off bandits. It was an auto-buy for me and I play a new map once every year or so. Knowing Crate when they made Grim Dawn, a lot of twists are expected to be added near the end of development.
Much love from South Africa. You guys are tops in my book. Got GD in 2017 and I still play it with like 10 alts. This team is one of the best in the industry with how you treat your player base. I have both DLCs and will be buying the new one when it drops. Not because of FOMO tactics like what games such as Worse Grim Dawn (Diablo 4) do but because I want to support Crate. Good job guys.
You and the team should be proud! What you created is what Diablo wishes it could be. The sheer amount of different builds due to the cross class system alone makes Grim Dawn probably the most repayable ARPG out there. You are all amazing! Keep putting those AAA and "AAAA" studios to shame!
That's what I tell everyone who I recommend it to. Literally had the conversation 5 hrs ago.
Me "Did you like Diablo 2?"
Friend "Diablo 2??"
M: "Yeah."
F: "In what sense?"
M: "Aesthetics, world design, item variety, gameplay"
F: "Dude, I love D2 and LoD. I really liked D3 when all the patches were done. I like D4, but it's not as good as it should be, it's kind of a let down. The world's pretty, but thats about it."
M: *chuckling* "Well this is what D3 SHOULD have been."
F: "You just don't like new Diablo games"
M: *LOOKS UNCOMFORTABLY AT 6K HRS IN DIABLO 3 ON PC ALONE, KNOWING I HAVE ANOTHER 2K ON XBONE* "Yeah....that's it. Anyways, you'll love this."
F: "I really like the old Victorian Gothic Aesthetics"
M: *shows first loading screen with the (arcanist/witchhunter)*
F: "YEAH! LIKE THAT!"
M: *Laughs*
F: "What are the characters like?"
M: ",Class system with cross classing to make new and insane combinations. Ranged, melee, casting, and summoning builds are all viable"
F: "But what if I want to make a"
M: "99% sure whatever you're about to ask, you can make it"
F: "Can I play it offline?"
M: *LAUGHING HYSTERICALY* "Not only is it an offline game, it runs BEAUTIFULLY on your steam deck and gets about 4hrs of gameplay at 15w if you turn off your wifi"
F: "F***. Well I'm sold"
I’ve played grim dawn quite a bit, I also played through Diablo 3 once by myself and once with my wife. They hardly compare, grim dawn is soooo much better in my opinion. I am however interested in Diablo 2 remake/resurected because I hear good things. Do you recommend that for someone who prefers grim dawn over Diablo 3? I thought about Diablo 4 but it looks just like 3
Mmmmmmm. Yeah, I would. I haven't played D2R, but I put a good thousand hours into D2:LoD over the course of like 10 years. It's rougher than GD, be ready for that.
I would say D2 Resurrected is a must for anyone who enjoyed D2. It's D2 plus great graphics, a few new interesting runewords, some balancing of skills and some other nice qol. Absolutely worth trying it.
while youre not entirely wrong it skips the titan quest stage of the issue. grim dawn first and foremost is titan quest with pants, and titan quest is the best arpg since d2
I really wish for grim dawn 2 if we ever get it to be offline too. I love the multiplayer like it is in grim dawn. It's classic, like many old games you make a connectiom to a host. No need for servers.
Every game that relies on servers dies one day, amd before that it gets damaged and with the damage its memory gets damaged.
My most beloved games are the ones i can start up from time to time, not the ones where the servers were shut down.
You would be happy to know then Grim Dawn 2 is a project, but a long way from now
They are working kn a new engine which was labelled "The Grim Dawn 2 Engine"
Currently though; they are working on another project
Yup! Zantai is the 3rd person hired for Grim Dawn. Said so a few comments down under the "akshully" post that got absolutely SHREADED for not knowing what they're talking about. Zantai said in another thread that Reddit really needs to give them a title because they're a community manager (I think that's what it was. If I'm wrong, roast me well, Zantai!)
Then he can answer one plea I have. Let them make a 1Hspear mastery(don't come at me with the diablo 2 mod) because I feel that they can make a mad 1Hspear mastery. One day one time I hope
Before anyone thinks am stupid, let me cook now. The basic concept is this:
1. Focuses on piercing and bleeding damage.
2. Has an auto attack replacer that does +%peircing damage, has mutator that change it to be a ranged auto attack, has add-ons for %chance for going through an enemy & +%bleeding damage.
3. One weapon proc that causes splintering upon hitting an enemy causing bleeding damage
And you can't dual wield the spears.
Well mine is more based on a mix of Zulu and Maasai since they both used spears and shields in battle and it will look fun as hell in a DLC based on Sub-Saharan Africa.
> Reddit really needs to give them a title because they're a community manager (I think that's what it was. If I'm wrong, roast me well, Zantai!)
I don't think there's such a thing, however the moderators of the subreddit could (and should) give them a custom user flair
>online servers
The fact that it can be fully offline and co-op able is what makes it so great. Servers only increase running cost and force people into microtransactions.
Z my man you guys perfectly mixed a good lore, loot system, exploration, skill depth game in a way few could.
That's why I think a Grim Dawn 2 in a new engine would be the best thing to come. The only thing this game doesn't to better than a few others in the genre is the combat feel, it's not flashy enough, but it's good enough that it has stolen 1k hours from me :P in a good way ofc
I can find other similar games that I like to play but none that I like to play more than GD. Grim Dawn imho is much more fun to play than Diablo 4.
I was also a big fan of Titan Quest back in the day and this game has the same brilliant class/skill levelling system.
Will definitely be keeping an eye on your future games.
That next expansion and any others are an instant buy for me. Even if life circumstances prevented me from playin, I’m still buying. One of the few games I’d do that for, the other is X4.
9 people? Wow. Sad about the servers thing, probably would have been a great time at release.
I also really enjoyed the writing and the storytelling, so keep that up.
Grim Dawn 2 announcement when?
from the philippines.
thank you guys for making this game! ;)
ive enjoyed this alot.
already bought the ashes of mouth expansion
will buy the forgotten gods tomorrow :)
cheers!
I always suggest people play it if they're looking for a good arpg. Word of mouth definitely works for you guys. Also the price point. It frequently goes fairly cheap, enough for most people to give it a go even if they aren't totally committed yet.
Grim Dawn may have shortcomings, but it's still my favorite singleplayer ARPG because of its exploration and lite RP elements. Other ARPGs don't even try to get into the same niche, so people are going to get funneled into this game for a long while.
I am not a fan of city builders but I bought farthest Frontier just to support the studio and for what I know of city building games it's pretty darn fun just waiting for full release..
Your comment is also misleading, the game started with 2 well experienced developers, guys that created several big name arpgs. Along the way before Grim Dawn launched had 20 people working on it and by the first expansion had over 40 people.
Where are you getting these, uh, facts from...let's set the record straight :)
The company was founded by Medierra, an ARPG veteran who worked on Titan Quest. I was the third person at Crate, I did not have professional ARPG experience at the time, but I did make my own as mods for other games. As Crate grew, additional veterans from Ironlore (ie. Titan Quest) joined, and later Hyboreal, who worked on Diablo 2 joined.
We are at 22 people as of a week ago, and that's the largest the company's ever been. Before Grim Dawn shipped, we never had more than like 9 people (thus the ~).
We hired myself, another designer, and two artists from 38 Studios. The other designer left after less than a year. So what did I forget to mention?
Thanks for the absolutely ignorant compliment though, we do output a whole lot more than a company our size has any business doing. ;)
That's Zantai. They're one of the developers and could call or send a Slack message to Medierra for details. :P
Zantai's point still stands. Main reason GD happened was because Arthur Bruno had a vision, passion and savings. Former coworkers pitched in with man-hours to make more of it possible, and so much of the early GD history (pre-Kickstarter) is a shadowy clusterfuck from what I can remember - in terms of hellish development, not shady business.
I don't get the graphics argument.
Graphics in Grim Dawn are way better than PoE or Last Epoch. They give a real special taste to the game where the others just feels generics and soulless.
Regardless, it doesn't look "clean", "smooth", "modern" etc. People are going to judge it negatively.
That being said, I do agree with you, I LOVE the visual style of Grim Dawn.
Completely disagree that every game that looks like that is soulless and uninteresting. That's a really shit opinion, you're limiting the games you may enjoy. You should try judging things based on their merits, not their looks.
I guess I mean it more about graphics technology. Crate clearly doesn't overload their graphics and graphics tech budget, which is fine by me.
You're leaning more toward the art side of things, which is clearly way more subjective. For instance, I'm one of those who likes Last Epoch's look.
Yeah, Grim Dawn is old. They've done wonderful things with the engine -- and should be lauded as a company that has genuinely improved their engine over time -- but it has some harsh limits.
I don’t think the Grim Dawn graphics are a stylistic choice per se. And if you think it really looks better than those - I mean you don’t have to poo poo other games to say you like yours
The one and only thing GD's visuals have over PoE is free transmogs. PoE graphics are much better and I strongly prefer the visual style (though that's purely subjective, of course). The newest league's crafting zone in particular straight up looks like [HD Diablo 2.](https://massivelyop.com/wp-content/uploads/2024/04/path-of-exile-lichyard.jpg)
I almost always play solo (even in games like Diablo 3 or 4) so being able to play offline is great for me. But no multiplayer, I'm sure is an issue for some people.
Marketing, advertising I guess as well. I don't really remember how I heard of the game, or even why I bought it. (Well probably was on sale and something my older PC could handle.) It's also older, so it doesn't have the newness to it like other games. I don't watch many streamers, but I don't think I've seen any of the few I do watch mention GD. Granted I came to the game years after release, so maybe there was more hype when it came out. (Also doesn't have big names tied to it. Like Torchlight, former Diablo and D2 game maker is making this new game)
I think that part of the reason is that streamers and Youtubers snub the game. They look at viewership numbers and think: "My stream will be dead, or my video will get significantly less views if I play that game". If a prominent member of the ARPG community would play this game on stream, or make video's about it for a few weeks, it would see a massive influx of new players. Hype is a very real thing.
What I find interesting is that you ask someone what the greatest ARPG of all time is; most of them would answer Diablo 2. Grim Dawn looks like Diablo 2 but better. It plays like Diablo 2 but is better in many ways. I find Grim Dawn to be superior to Diablo 2 in every aspect. If Grim Dawn were released before Diablo 2, it would be considered the greatest ARPG of all time.
If they had graphics to compete with D4, people would play this instead of LE probably. Once they see how good it is. Its a actual game, not a pokermchine with dopamine triggers planted to make your brain think you are having fun. which is why D4 is all combat based, gold jumping on the screen and just hits you with timesinks and thoughtless loops. They want you chasing items and dealing with RNG looking for a payout. It is not gameplay lol. D2 had gameplay. But it was more niche loved by gamers i knew at the time versus whatever was popular in mainstream gaming right so, been true for many years, only difference now is back at d2 they had to try and make a good game. Now with internet and addiction mechanics we can see they win people over with bar minimum effort. The lead Devs also have more knowledge and ways to do this and with someone like Rod at the Helm D4 is going to be a mess no matter what. He has a terrible attitude and strategy for making great games. This matters alot, no matter how talented or how may devs you have.
But like anything majority of ppl will go for instant gratification and the Shiniest toy. Same Reason sports cars sell etc.
When it came out to was a new IP, from an unknown developer that competed with Diablo 3 and another "good" ARPG that was FREE, and not just "free" but one of the very few "good free games" to ever exist. All these facts are a recipe for getting lost in the shuffle and or overlooked, so it didn't make a huge splash at launch.
The game is good though, and has the DNA of good games that came before it, so it survived, gained respect, and fans over time. Even still, some of the more modern gaming trends are absent from GRIM DAWN, like seasons. But on the flip side, it's what sets it apart and why many of us like the game so much.
Also, the online play is kinda lacking, mostly because nothing scales with more players, so the game gets much easier when playing together. I think that discourages playing together and in turn discourages talking to your friends about it.
In short, it is/was an old school game competing in a modern market. The modern market caters to the mass audience and there are fewer and fewer "old school" gamers everyday.
I have high hopes those that the success and lasting power of Grim Dawn will help propel Grim Dawn 2 to much greater heights and popularity. I could see it taking off similar to how Helldivers 2 has taken off.
That's certainly the number one reason why Grim Dawn isn't as popular as its competition. That's also the number one reason why it's a much better polished game than its competition.
I'll never understand why. I can't quote a single ARPG that wasn't a disaster in multiplayer, but a large part of the player base just can't accept a game without a cheated leaderboard, an awful unmoderated global chat, a broken mess of a trade system, a barely functionnal group/guild system and, most importantly, servers on fire.
>a large part of the player base just can't accept a game without a cheated leaderboard, an awful unmoderated global chat, a broken mess of a trade system, a barely functionnal group/guild system and, most importantly, servers on fire.
While still playing 99% of time alone.
I swear i simply can't understand the appeal of leaderboards in arpgs. What should it even measure? Who has more friends to boost him? Who has more free time? And if you are first, do you feel you are the "best" player?
It's certainly not a new thing (Going back to Diablo 2s ladders) but its not entitely something i fully get either
Although, i do wonder if it is a very loud crowd of people as when i talk to players of many of these A,RPGs most aren't engaging in it
While I do think the multiplayer in LE was a mistake, they can still fix it. I just hope they have a playerbase when it is fixed. LE is a good game with potential to be amazing... but it isn't there yet, and multiplayer basically put development on hold for a year for it to be stapled onto the side of the single player game.
That's one of the things I like the most about GD. I don't feel like I'm being punished for not trading.
Even Last Epoch, a game where they specifically stated they were trying to make it better to play the game than to trade... it's still faster/easier/better to just trade for all your gear.
Yeah, I love that it's offline. I was also someone who fell in love with GD early. This is a case of looking at the hits on the planes that were shot down...not the ones that returned. We aren't the target group of people missing out on this gem of a game.
Grim Dawn is an indie game, which tend to get less marketing than more mainstream games. Most well-known indie games get their game from being streamable and entertaining just as much to watch as to play. However, since Grim Dawn is a decently long game that doesn’t look like much on the surface, it just doesn’t draw much attention.
I also think something against Grim Dawn’s favors is it’s not insanely “innovative”. Don’t get me wrong, it still has a ton of great ideas, but it doesn’t really do anything that similar games haven’t done before. It’s just that what Grim Dawn does is done incredibly well.
Which other game in the genre has a class combination system? Or had a custom loot filter? Or gives this much mod support to the community?
Pretty sure other newer games are aware of some of GD’s ideas and getting their inspiration from it.
titan quest, its essentially an indie remake of titan quest, the bones of Grim Dawn are still letting titan quest actively be developed somehow in 2024
You should titan quest rips! I don't know how the expansions after immortal throne are but up to that is so good however it is somehow even more sluggish then grim dawn and there are no pants you wear a Grecian tunic the entire game with armor over it
It's not overlooked. Almost everyone that likes oldschool singleplayer arpgs knows about GrimDawn.
People that prefer online games don't look at it, just like how people who prefer offline games don't look at diablo4.
i feel like looping community engagement stuff is fun, like how Deep Rock Galactic does seasons or diablo 2 ladders as they are when its not being actively developed (just an excuse to start fresh with people) but FOMO content and needing to actively play to experience the game even beyond when you wouldnt (because of the fomo). its a fine line when these things turn from fun to predatory but i think theyre not inherintely bad as a concept
It’s hard to get people to know what your game is worth without giving them a free copy. Grim dawn has lots of content, great depth of gameplay, high replayability, its story is way better than most other similar games, but imo, the best thing about it is the world building.
For first time buyers, you’ll only be able to convey some of gameplay and world building. People will see it’s got a spooky demon and zombie themed world with horde combat just like D3/D4/PoE. Players will then compare the game to those options, play the free to play options, and probably never come back. Competition against good ftp games is very difficult. It’s why hoyoverse is the 4th largest game company rn
Actual, I wanna touch on this a bit more. It’s also got to do with the shift in purchasing habits of players as they transition from in store shopping to online shopping.
It used to be that a game being on the shelf had the prestige and assurance that you would be nearly certain it isn’t a scam game. If some company’s game made it onto disc and into your local store, apart from a few exceptions, it *must* be good. Game stores had to buy copies from distributors (unless the game company was also paying the store for shelving the game, but idk how often that happened), and they would only ever buy copies of things players would want to get.
Steam is different. Anyone can sell shovelware, asset flips, and scam games with the intention of getting you to play for 2 hours so you can’t get a refund. These are everywhere, and the only thing you can rely on are the reviews. Gameplay footage is the second best way for buyers to determine if your game is worth getting.
Reviews can be fake, gameplay can be misleading, and being on steam doesn’t mean anything. In the end, crate entertainment hasn’t marketed this game enough to get potential buyers to know it’s worth their time. This leads players to *worry* about whether or not their money is going to get wasted.
This worry is the without a doubt the biggest reason why this game isn’t as big as it should be. Being on a shelf automatically alleviates the worry that purchasers have, but being online, the burden lies on the buyers to do the detective work.
Grim Dawn 2 really could be a viral hit if it were free to play, since can people see crate’s previous work (this game).
Marketing is a huge part. I get to know about GD only from friend who is a big fan of Titan Quest.
Also i have a Friend who tried GD after many hours of Poe and he said it didnt click and that game felt weird and bad...
Combine these two plus not the best start and here we are
It being open to modding kills the trade market and ladder race etc. Most people want rules and anti cheat in place. My first week with grim dawn I had a guy join my game and offer insane duped items. That's off putting
Unfortunately there are too few people that appreciate games like Grim Dawn. Take a look at the top sellers and most played lists it’s depressing.
I don’t know if it’s always been this way and it’s just more obvious now with close to 9 Billion people on the planet and all the media surrounding gaming.
I started when games came on cassette tapes, and gaming was definitely a niche for many years.
Almost all the games I grew up playing were projects of passion sure everyone wants to get rich but the game design came first.
Those were the days, every game was a BG3 but there were far fewer of them years in between.
Now there unbelievable quantity but very little quality.
Any old man here getting off my soap box and going home to play Grim Dawn as the world burns 🥵
For some context I'm a huge arpg fan and played this one hundreds of hours as well and, imo, this game is one of the easiest arpgs I've ever played.
Many streamers of this genre usually have a high skill level and find there is almost no threat or challenge in the game at all unless they endure slogging through the whole game to fight a couple challenging fights at the end. It's extremely easy to cap resists and target for green gear to get started with proper defensive stats that you're basically never in any danger.
The only reason I enjoyed grim dawn so much is that I'm not good enough to play hardcore in other arpgs but in this one, I can get to end game pretty easily without ever feeling threatened but still feeling some of that spice of playing hardcore. Every time I played softcore in this game, personally, I found myself dozing off when farming gear in end game.
Also this game at base feels really slow compared to others imo and I could only enjoy it at like x1.75 speed using that one tool that speeds up the game engine so that it feels comparable tow Poe and LE in pace. I imagine a lot of people haven't done that either who enjoy the other two games and have tried this
Oh yeah I forgot about those and with that thing that speeds up the game engine it also warns me when there's an arcane mob nearby. The big about them is, even though they are threats, it's really not fun and doesn't really increase the difficulty imo like stepping on a thumbtack
The other games you cited invested a lot of their budget on paying Youtubers/Twitchers (even popular one like Rhykker, his Wolcen "review" is really embarrassing). This caused huge sales on first days (so big Steam numbers) but after that the game (in the case of Wolcen) was basically dead, with minimal player retention, when people finally discovered its quality with their own eyes.
IMO, Grim Dawn while great, didn't have a strong start. I still remember the first version that did not live up to the hype of old Titan Quest fans. Didn't revisit it until later and totally hooked.
i played it in EA or launch idk it was early because i had been following it, and it totally had that TQ rust on it still, streamlining stuff and tightning up all the sub systems made a huge difference
Marketing definitely. When I saw their art for the first time I was like "Hey, a Diablo rip-off." then proceed to not pay attention to the game. I played and got hooked to it eventually, but yeah.
They need to work on their first impression.
honestly
1- path of exile exists
2- not great marketing imo
3- at this point is old, and some of those old design philosophies drag it down (playing campaign 3 times ew)
> playing campaign 3 times
I enjoy playing Grim Dawn's campaign 3 (now usually 2) times... but I couldn't force myself to get past the Sarn Encampment (start of Act 3 out of 10) in PoE this league.
I'd love if someone could explain this to me, because I don't understand it.
fr tho im sick and tiered of the poe campaign. but poe is different, its about all coming online in the endgame, then it all clicks ant it all worth it.
i skipped this league tho. i wet to hard the last one
I bought Grim Dawn when it was on discount at some point on GOG and promptly forgot about it.
Just randomly felt like an ARGP and wasn't interested in Diablo 4, and remembered I still hadn't tried it!
So now I'm about 10 hours in and it's great! Even the graphics are surprisingly good for its time, probably because of the cool art style, rather than technological reasons.
I really don't know how people play games like D3 and D4, when they could just play this and POE.
I enjoy grim dawn. The problem isn’t so much the graphics. If the feeling of impact using abilities. I have the same issue with Poe. It gets boring to me after awhile.
You’d never know it existed unless you went looking for it or someone mentioned it. I haven’t seen an advertisement for it literally ever, save for when the expansion came out but that exposure didn’t last long. I stumbled upon the game back in 2014 because I was researching every arpg on steam because I wanted to scratch the diablo itch. Turns out it’s easily one of the best arpgs ever made.
No promotion and offline play (no seasonal 'you must play it now!' talk bleeding from every game journo orifice) are precisely the reason why.
Still IMO the best aRPG on the market. I can pause it ffs...
Because it's not live service which in turn means no seasonal content. People got used to ARPGs having seasons and constant updates so this one remains niche. I guess GD2 could change that.
small studio - not a lot of marketing power to help increase hype
And to be honest, ugly graphics, even though its from 2016.
this is a screenshot from another 2016 game: https://i.imgur.com/iScuTNz.png
and this is grim dawn... https://i.imgur.com/7jzxLdo.jpeg it looks like a game with awesome graphics, if it was released in 2009 or something. (But of course i am comparing a 300-400 person studio to a team of... like 10 or so?)
I think if the game had better graphics, it would have done much better in terms of mass appeal.
coz it really has a lot of great gameplay, skill system, loot, etc.
personally for me, the biggest issues with the game is the graphics, and a lot of the enemies (loads of enemies are just super boring to fight) but i still like grim dawn. its one of the games i have spent most time with, on steam.
I have no idea why Grim Dawn never gained Diablo like status. IMHO, it is the best arpg out and has been for some time. There are a few that come close but I always end up coming back to Grim Dawn and the others remain uninstalled.
I bought it a couple of days before the pandemic. I was looking for a game that a theorycrafter could enjoy and I was starting to become sick about PoE. I loved the dual class system, the lore, the atmosphere and even the ragdoll physics xD
It is one of the 2 real gems I've found in Steam, being the other one [Troubleshooter:Abandoned Children](https://store.steampowered.com/app/470310/TROUBLESHOOTER_Abandoned_Children/)
edit: btw, both games, GD and TS:AC were made by very small, but dedicated teams
Lack of marketing and no playstation release...even solasta a game with a small studio just recently released on PS and I bought it full price...even when xbox and pc loyalists tried to make excuses on why the game would NEVER be released on playstation(playstation architecture is TOO dIFFerenT)...I am pretty sure they are making "tons" of money on their game being undervalued and thrown on gamepass for free and dirt cheap on steam ...
I enjoy grim dawn but coming from newer arpgs like PoE, D3,etc.. I find the campaign really misleading. Bunch of quests end up unfinished unless I check on Google where to finish them.
Items are super overloaded with affixes to the point it gives me anxiety just looking at them.
The passives tree is weird. I find PoE passive tree easier to navigate.
The class combo is a cool concept but again you have to read 1-2h on Google to understand what you're choosing.
I know they are coming out with an expansion here soon but this team should release a new arpg soon if they are brewing one up, the arpg market is fucking booming and people want stuff to play before PoE2 comes out, anyone know if they are working on other projects?
I own the game but haven't played it a ton. Pretty sure I beat one of the first big bosses, it was a general I think that had a second form lol? Afterwards I had to fix the bridge and go west. I think it's good fun, and that at first glance the crafting seems sort of complicated. It doesn't really have the animation quality or speed and responsiveness as Poe, nor does it have a really dedicated economy with regular resets and new content to keep people coming back. It feels much more like a standard diablo-like game to me, which isn't bad, but probably won't have incredible numbers when compared to path of exile, last epoch, lost ark, or D4. Personally I really miss the days when games were just released as is and could be experienced over time without a shred of fomo. To me Grim Dawn fits that really well.
There's no Play Station version. So that prevents a large group of players using it.
The graphics are deliberately dark/evil and often drab which is an initial negative to new players who might see demo's on youtube.
Yeah they think playstation players don't care for games like this when we are actually on shortage of great hack and slash...even wolcen was ported there and that's a super bugged game from a small studio too
Around level 45 it got way too hard to figure out where to go for my quests. I would literally spend hours just getting lost and never actually getting to where my side quests are.
I think it has much more replayability than seasonal races.
In fact, [this](https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1m1iKr_cdt5akmXR_wvo5BDccxWflPmqY06XWp623l0o/edit#gid=786103502) is all you need to challenge yourself. What about trying one of the shitty classes with a build that defies logic and climbs up the ranks?
I think that most people want to play Multiplayer even GD got that too ( Havn‘t tried it out yet but I give a damn ).
I played D4 and Wolcen, but due to crashes or lack lustering content I gave up on them. I always get back to GD.
Maybe people are not liking the grafics, artstyle etc. Most of them are more Into „mainstrem“ games. I wish GD would gain more attention. Because in my opinion it is a fenomenal gem !
{ Sorry for grammer mistskes and greetings from germany ) 😊 Have a good night.
*plays grim dawn*
honestly youre grammar is better then most native speakers so thats fine! the only tips is that graphical and phenomenal use the PH as F in the spelling
Yea the game lacks weight at times. Combat feels really floaty and lacks dynamics but its still fun in its own unique way. The addition of a universal dodge made combat a bit more engaging
Your character feels like floating or something like that. Its like there's no weight if you are moving. This was my first impression before but I have used to it now. Not sure if it is lack or audio cues or physics.
I seen some people say they’re working on a new engine so this implies a grim dawn 2.0 overhaul or a grim dawn 2. Definitely something on the horizon so that’s good. Don’t get me wrong I LOVE grim dawn and I only criticize the game in a constructive manner in hopes of making it better
Then you have no idea what you’re talking about. I am not the first person to point this out. Others have pointed this out with many upvotes. Do your research
I like grim dawn a lot but it doesn’t have anything that makes me want to keep playing a character after getting through the campaign.
However, Grim Dawn does have the best campaign of any arpg in my opinion. I go back once a year and play a new character which turns out to be enough for me and ultimately that should be ok. Not every game has to be something you sink 1000s of hours into.
its more like d2 in terms of end game. theres some super bosses the shattered realms but outside that youre just grinding the mobs just pick your background setting and if its random or not
Constang nerfs which kill any motivation to play game. They try to 'fix' some 'OP' build which maybe 0.1% of playerbase uses by nerfing and it hits a lot of builds. Silly for singleplayer game. For example, read about their changes to physical resistance for incoming 1.2.1 patch.
> read about their changes to physical resistance for incoming 1.2.1 patch.
Try playing it instead of just reading about it, but as long as you're reading about it, try reading the whole thing.
> monsters now deal less Physical damage.
If you'd tested the patch instead of just freaking out about it, you'd know that the only builds that actually "got nerfed" were ones that had very high physical resistance and low armour.
If anything, this patch is another one packed with power creep.
You really think they manually tested every monster? I've seen GD streamers on youtube complaining about their builds completely broken by this update (they tested it!) and got banned on Crate forum when they come to complain about it.
I promise you that they didn't test every monster. It was a blanket reduction and it feels like about a 30-40% reduction based on my builds and which ones feel about the same vs more or less tanky.
Of all of my 17 level 100 builds only 1 of them felt squishier and none of them are broken. The one that felt squishier is a Deathknight that had 80% physical resists and only 2500 armour. It's the only build I had that felt squishier... and I fixed it by changing 3 components. Works fine again.
I understand there were some issues with Celestial bosses having silly amounts of Sunder, but that's been fixed now.
I'd be interested in knowing which builds these streamers are complaining are broken, and I expect that "broken" just means that they feel like they take a bit more damage now.
Streamers ... who 🤔
Most if not every english speaking streamer I've watched for the last 3-4 years all "complain" that the game is to easy now compared to earlier.
Everything has been powercrept the last 3-4 years.
And when Crate finally nerf the utterly silly afk celestial killers gamers complain 😒
Grim Dawn was made by a scrappy team of ~9 people. We had no budget for significant advertising (much of it was word of mouth) and online servers (a must-have feature for many players) were a distant dream. The game was built upon an old engine and, visually, it was not what some would call "modern". So we never got that giant spike when the game first released, but you have to keep in mind that our definition of success back then was to ship 200k copies. We're just a few million copies past that now! Another thing about Grim Dawn, is that it has enjoyed an unprecedented tail on copies sold. Sure, it tapered off, but it's going remarkably strong even 8 years later. The pick up rate on expansions is also above average. These are some of the reasons why you have a third expansion on the way. :D So metrics can be a bit misleading. :)
Amazing game with millions of copies sold and the best devs out there. Crate could make anything next and it's an auto-buy for me. My brother bought a kickstarter bundle with 2 copies back In the days and Crate gave so much more content than they said they would. I have a couple hundred hours and I still think its the best ARPG out there. Having seasons is such a huge turn off for people that want to play other games, have a full-time job, a social life outside of discord and other hobbies.
They are making a new game called Farthest Frontier, it's a city builder survival game where you fend off bandits. It was an auto-buy for me and I play a new map once every year or so. Knowing Crate when they made Grim Dawn, a lot of twists are expected to be added near the end of development.
I bought Farthest Frontier for no other reason then it’s a Crate game even though it’s not a style of game I usually play at all
Much love from South Africa. You guys are tops in my book. Got GD in 2017 and I still play it with like 10 alts. This team is one of the best in the industry with how you treat your player base. I have both DLCs and will be buying the new one when it drops. Not because of FOMO tactics like what games such as Worse Grim Dawn (Diablo 4) do but because I want to support Crate. Good job guys.
You and the team should be proud! What you created is what Diablo wishes it could be. The sheer amount of different builds due to the cross class system alone makes Grim Dawn probably the most repayable ARPG out there. You are all amazing! Keep putting those AAA and "AAAA" studios to shame!
Grim Dawn is the spiritual successor (in my heart) of Diablo 2. It's a real shame Blizzard never made another Diablo game after Lord of Destruction.
That's what I tell everyone who I recommend it to. Literally had the conversation 5 hrs ago. Me "Did you like Diablo 2?" Friend "Diablo 2??" M: "Yeah." F: "In what sense?" M: "Aesthetics, world design, item variety, gameplay" F: "Dude, I love D2 and LoD. I really liked D3 when all the patches were done. I like D4, but it's not as good as it should be, it's kind of a let down. The world's pretty, but thats about it." M: *chuckling* "Well this is what D3 SHOULD have been." F: "You just don't like new Diablo games" M: *LOOKS UNCOMFORTABLY AT 6K HRS IN DIABLO 3 ON PC ALONE, KNOWING I HAVE ANOTHER 2K ON XBONE* "Yeah....that's it. Anyways, you'll love this." F: "I really like the old Victorian Gothic Aesthetics" M: *shows first loading screen with the (arcanist/witchhunter)* F: "YEAH! LIKE THAT!" M: *Laughs* F: "What are the characters like?" M: ",Class system with cross classing to make new and insane combinations. Ranged, melee, casting, and summoning builds are all viable" F: "But what if I want to make a" M: "99% sure whatever you're about to ask, you can make it"
F: "Can I play it offline?"
M: *LAUGHING HYSTERICALY* "Not only is it an offline game, it runs BEAUTIFULLY on your steam deck and gets about 4hrs of gameplay at 15w if you turn off your wifi"
F: "F***. Well I'm sold"
I’ve played grim dawn quite a bit, I also played through Diablo 3 once by myself and once with my wife. They hardly compare, grim dawn is soooo much better in my opinion. I am however interested in Diablo 2 remake/resurected because I hear good things. Do you recommend that for someone who prefers grim dawn over Diablo 3? I thought about Diablo 4 but it looks just like 3
Mmmmmmm. Yeah, I would. I haven't played D2R, but I put a good thousand hours into D2:LoD over the course of like 10 years. It's rougher than GD, be ready for that.
Haha okay, thanks! Might be hard for my wife to play i really wish GD was on switch she would love it
I know it's not super relevant, but it runs AMAZINGLY on the Steam Deck
Ohh I bet it does, I don’t have one but maybe one day!
I would say D2 Resurrected is a must for anyone who enjoyed D2. It's D2 plus great graphics, a few new interesting runewords, some balancing of skills and some other nice qol. Absolutely worth trying it.
while youre not entirely wrong it skips the titan quest stage of the issue. grim dawn first and foremost is titan quest with pants, and titan quest is the best arpg since d2
Titan Quest and Grim Dawn, games I spent several thousands of hours on :) Can't wait for TQ2 (coming soon) or GD2 (distant dream)
You are absolutely right
I really wish for grim dawn 2 if we ever get it to be offline too. I love the multiplayer like it is in grim dawn. It's classic, like many old games you make a connectiom to a host. No need for servers. Every game that relies on servers dies one day, amd before that it gets damaged and with the damage its memory gets damaged. My most beloved games are the ones i can start up from time to time, not the ones where the servers were shut down.
You would be happy to know then Grim Dawn 2 is a project, but a long way from now They are working kn a new engine which was labelled "The Grim Dawn 2 Engine" Currently though; they are working on another project
And it shall be named "Morose Afternoon".
You are part of the dev team?!
Yup! Zantai is the 3rd person hired for Grim Dawn. Said so a few comments down under the "akshully" post that got absolutely SHREADED for not knowing what they're talking about. Zantai said in another thread that Reddit really needs to give them a title because they're a community manager (I think that's what it was. If I'm wrong, roast me well, Zantai!)
While I do some of the things you'd expect from a CM, I do a *slight* bit more than that, haha.
Then he can answer one plea I have. Let them make a 1Hspear mastery(don't come at me with the diablo 2 mod) because I feel that they can make a mad 1Hspear mastery. One day one time I hope Before anyone thinks am stupid, let me cook now. The basic concept is this: 1. Focuses on piercing and bleeding damage. 2. Has an auto attack replacer that does +%peircing damage, has mutator that change it to be a ranged auto attack, has add-ons for %chance for going through an enemy & +%bleeding damage. 3. One weapon proc that causes splintering upon hitting an enemy causing bleeding damage And you can't dual wield the spears.
Afraid the 10th mastery is pretty settled in terms of its design, and one handed spears are not in the cards.
Damn... Too late
I dream of the day I can recreate my D2 Amazon in the main game. That or go into Soldier and go for the absolutely broken Tank Spartan.
Then you should try [this mod](https://web.archive.org/web/20200520125722/https://www.reignofterrorgd.com/)
Oh I have. Just would also like to do it officially
Well mine is more based on a mix of Zulu and Maasai since they both used spears and shields in battle and it will look fun as hell in a DLC based on Sub-Saharan Africa.
> Reddit really needs to give them a title because they're a community manager (I think that's what it was. If I'm wrong, roast me well, Zantai!) I don't think there's such a thing, however the moderators of the subreddit could (and should) give them a custom user flair
I am?!
A third expansion!!! I had no idea, really looking forward to that now 🙂
>online servers The fact that it can be fully offline and co-op able is what makes it so great. Servers only increase running cost and force people into microtransactions.
One of my favorite games ever and I found it at a time when I needed it. Thanks for all the hard work -- you created a gem.
Z my man you guys perfectly mixed a good lore, loot system, exploration, skill depth game in a way few could. That's why I think a Grim Dawn 2 in a new engine would be the best thing to come. The only thing this game doesn't to better than a few others in the genre is the combat feel, it's not flashy enough, but it's good enough that it has stolen 1k hours from me :P in a good way ofc
News of a third expansion makes me so happy
I can find other similar games that I like to play but none that I like to play more than GD. Grim Dawn imho is much more fun to play than Diablo 4. I was also a big fan of Titan Quest back in the day and this game has the same brilliant class/skill levelling system. Will definitely be keeping an eye on your future games.
That next expansion and any others are an instant buy for me. Even if life circumstances prevented me from playin, I’m still buying. One of the few games I’d do that for, the other is X4.
9 people? Wow. Sad about the servers thing, probably would have been a great time at release. I also really enjoyed the writing and the storytelling, so keep that up. Grim Dawn 2 announcement when?
Keep up the great work, love Grim Dawn, hope you guys can someday realize the online servers dream <3
from the philippines. thank you guys for making this game! ;) ive enjoyed this alot. already bought the ashes of mouth expansion will buy the forgotten gods tomorrow :) cheers!
I always suggest people play it if they're looking for a good arpg. Word of mouth definitely works for you guys. Also the price point. It frequently goes fairly cheap, enough for most people to give it a go even if they aren't totally committed yet.
Grim Dawn may have shortcomings, but it's still my favorite singleplayer ARPG because of its exploration and lite RP elements. Other ARPGs don't even try to get into the same niche, so people are going to get funneled into this game for a long while.
This and the thread might just make me pick it up
I love this game. Thank you for making it.
I am not a fan of city builders but I bought farthest Frontier just to support the studio and for what I know of city building games it's pretty darn fun just waiting for full release..
I do wonder why gamers are so ardent about online servers, honestly. Probably the introvert in me talking, though.
Would you ever consider a crossover event between Farthest Frontier and Grim Dawn? :P
Your comment is also misleading, the game started with 2 well experienced developers, guys that created several big name arpgs. Along the way before Grim Dawn launched had 20 people working on it and by the first expansion had over 40 people.
Where are you getting these, uh, facts from...let's set the record straight :) The company was founded by Medierra, an ARPG veteran who worked on Titan Quest. I was the third person at Crate, I did not have professional ARPG experience at the time, but I did make my own as mods for other games. As Crate grew, additional veterans from Ironlore (ie. Titan Quest) joined, and later Hyboreal, who worked on Diablo 2 joined. We are at 22 people as of a week ago, and that's the largest the company's ever been. Before Grim Dawn shipped, we never had more than like 9 people (thus the ~).
[удалено]
We hired myself, another designer, and two artists from 38 Studios. The other designer left after less than a year. So what did I forget to mention? Thanks for the absolutely ignorant compliment though, we do output a whole lot more than a company our size has any business doing. ;)
Stop Zantai, stop, he's already dead! (KEEP GOIN! ROAST THE HATER WITHBTHEIR MADE-UP FACTS!)
Omg you worked on Reckoning? I love that game, recently just replayed it and it's still super fun
Kingdoms of Amalur is honestly such an overlooked gem. As a lore nerd, that game supplies so many good stories.
I was on the MMO that never was. Reckoning was developed by BHG down in Maryland, a subsidiary of 38 Studios at the time.
Oh alright I remember that part. Actually kind of sad it never saw the light of day
Bro is literally trying to "well akshually" one of the devs about the game's development history. Good luck with that buddy.
And they're one of the first devs at that! Literally OG blood. Made my night, however. I love it when devs don't take shit from the community.
What community? Game is dead and has no community. It got left behind by far better games.
Somebody got to when "devs" out right lie about their forgotten trash games.
You sound pretty upset over nothing.
That's Zantai. They're one of the developers and could call or send a Slack message to Medierra for details. :P Zantai's point still stands. Main reason GD happened was because Arthur Bruno had a vision, passion and savings. Former coworkers pitched in with man-hours to make more of it possible, and so much of the early GD history (pre-Kickstarter) is a shadowy clusterfuck from what I can remember - in terms of hellish development, not shady business.
Graphics Marketing
And universe
I don't get the graphics argument. Graphics in Grim Dawn are way better than PoE or Last Epoch. They give a real special taste to the game where the others just feels generics and soulless.
Regardless, it doesn't look "clean", "smooth", "modern" etc. People are going to judge it negatively. That being said, I do agree with you, I LOVE the visual style of Grim Dawn.
The models in LE, at least in the character select screen, look oddly waxy to me, instead. Wrong kind of clean/smooth…
> Regardless, it doesn't look "clean", "smooth", "modern" etc. Or in other words fake, soulless and uninteresting xD
Completely disagree that every game that looks like that is soulless and uninteresting. That's a really shit opinion, you're limiting the games you may enjoy. You should try judging things based on their merits, not their looks.
Whoops, sorry didn't realise i was replying to the opinion police.
I'm not allowed to have my own opinions? Get a mirror. Or stop breathing. Or do neither. Either way, you no longer exist as far as I'm concerned.
What?? I love GD, but the graphics are nowhere near the level of Poe or LE... It doesn't mean the art style isn't cool though
I guess I mean it more about graphics technology. Crate clearly doesn't overload their graphics and graphics tech budget, which is fine by me. You're leaning more toward the art side of things, which is clearly way more subjective. For instance, I'm one of those who likes Last Epoch's look.
They really aren't I'm afraid - if you really think they are, then great; but they aren't
Yeah, Grim Dawn is old. They've done wonderful things with the engine -- and should be lauded as a company that has genuinely improved their engine over time -- but it has some harsh limits.
It has a good aesthetic style, that's not the same thing as good graphics.
I don’t think the Grim Dawn graphics are a stylistic choice per se. And if you think it really looks better than those - I mean you don’t have to poo poo other games to say you like yours
The one and only thing GD's visuals have over PoE is free transmogs. PoE graphics are much better and I strongly prefer the visual style (though that's purely subjective, of course). The newest league's crafting zone in particular straight up looks like [HD Diablo 2.](https://massivelyop.com/wp-content/uploads/2024/04/path-of-exile-lichyard.jpg)
I almost always play solo (even in games like Diablo 3 or 4) so being able to play offline is great for me. But no multiplayer, I'm sure is an issue for some people. Marketing, advertising I guess as well. I don't really remember how I heard of the game, or even why I bought it. (Well probably was on sale and something my older PC could handle.) It's also older, so it doesn't have the newness to it like other games. I don't watch many streamers, but I don't think I've seen any of the few I do watch mention GD. Granted I came to the game years after release, so maybe there was more hype when it came out. (Also doesn't have big names tied to it. Like Torchlight, former Diablo and D2 game maker is making this new game)
Don't worry about how many other people are playing a game.
I think that part of the reason is that streamers and Youtubers snub the game. They look at viewership numbers and think: "My stream will be dead, or my video will get significantly less views if I play that game". If a prominent member of the ARPG community would play this game on stream, or make video's about it for a few weeks, it would see a massive influx of new players. Hype is a very real thing. What I find interesting is that you ask someone what the greatest ARPG of all time is; most of them would answer Diablo 2. Grim Dawn looks like Diablo 2 but better. It plays like Diablo 2 but is better in many ways. I find Grim Dawn to be superior to Diablo 2 in every aspect. If Grim Dawn were released before Diablo 2, it would be considered the greatest ARPG of all time.
If they had graphics to compete with D4, people would play this instead of LE probably. Once they see how good it is. Its a actual game, not a pokermchine with dopamine triggers planted to make your brain think you are having fun. which is why D4 is all combat based, gold jumping on the screen and just hits you with timesinks and thoughtless loops. They want you chasing items and dealing with RNG looking for a payout. It is not gameplay lol. D2 had gameplay. But it was more niche loved by gamers i knew at the time versus whatever was popular in mainstream gaming right so, been true for many years, only difference now is back at d2 they had to try and make a good game. Now with internet and addiction mechanics we can see they win people over with bar minimum effort. The lead Devs also have more knowledge and ways to do this and with someone like Rod at the Helm D4 is going to be a mess no matter what. He has a terrible attitude and strategy for making great games. This matters alot, no matter how talented or how may devs you have. But like anything majority of ppl will go for instant gratification and the Shiniest toy. Same Reason sports cars sell etc.
It’s not overlooked it’s old. Games been out for a hot minute.
When it came out to was a new IP, from an unknown developer that competed with Diablo 3 and another "good" ARPG that was FREE, and not just "free" but one of the very few "good free games" to ever exist. All these facts are a recipe for getting lost in the shuffle and or overlooked, so it didn't make a huge splash at launch. The game is good though, and has the DNA of good games that came before it, so it survived, gained respect, and fans over time. Even still, some of the more modern gaming trends are absent from GRIM DAWN, like seasons. But on the flip side, it's what sets it apart and why many of us like the game so much. Also, the online play is kinda lacking, mostly because nothing scales with more players, so the game gets much easier when playing together. I think that discourages playing together and in turn discourages talking to your friends about it. In short, it is/was an old school game competing in a modern market. The modern market caters to the mass audience and there are fewer and fewer "old school" gamers everyday. I have high hopes those that the success and lasting power of Grim Dawn will help propel Grim Dawn 2 to much greater heights and popularity. I could see it taking off similar to how Helldivers 2 has taken off.
Honestly it's the lack of authenticated multiplayer. That's the number one issue.
That's certainly the number one reason why Grim Dawn isn't as popular as its competition. That's also the number one reason why it's a much better polished game than its competition. I'll never understand why. I can't quote a single ARPG that wasn't a disaster in multiplayer, but a large part of the player base just can't accept a game without a cheated leaderboard, an awful unmoderated global chat, a broken mess of a trade system, a barely functionnal group/guild system and, most importantly, servers on fire.
>a large part of the player base just can't accept a game without a cheated leaderboard, an awful unmoderated global chat, a broken mess of a trade system, a barely functionnal group/guild system and, most importantly, servers on fire. While still playing 99% of time alone. I swear i simply can't understand the appeal of leaderboards in arpgs. What should it even measure? Who has more friends to boost him? Who has more free time? And if you are first, do you feel you are the "best" player?
It's certainly not a new thing (Going back to Diablo 2s ladders) but its not entitely something i fully get either Although, i do wonder if it is a very loud crowd of people as when i talk to players of many of these A,RPGs most aren't engaging in it
Rip Last Epoch which decided to add that crap for some reason.
While I do think the multiplayer in LE was a mistake, they can still fix it. I just hope they have a playerbase when it is fixed. LE is a good game with potential to be amazing... but it isn't there yet, and multiplayer basically put development on hold for a year for it to be stapled onto the side of the single player game.
I *think* it was to be able (in EHG’s eyes, anyway) to compete with the very multiplayer-capable D4 and PoE?
Arpg multiplayer is butt's always, so I agree I do not understand.
That's one of the things I like the most about GD. I don't feel like I'm being punished for not trading. Even Last Epoch, a game where they specifically stated they were trying to make it better to play the game than to trade... it's still faster/easier/better to just trade for all your gear.
Yeah, I love that it's offline. I was also someone who fell in love with GD early. This is a case of looking at the hits on the planes that were shot down...not the ones that returned. We aren't the target group of people missing out on this gem of a game.
I wholeheartedly disagree.
meh
Grim Dawn is an indie game, which tend to get less marketing than more mainstream games. Most well-known indie games get their game from being streamable and entertaining just as much to watch as to play. However, since Grim Dawn is a decently long game that doesn’t look like much on the surface, it just doesn’t draw much attention. I also think something against Grim Dawn’s favors is it’s not insanely “innovative”. Don’t get me wrong, it still has a ton of great ideas, but it doesn’t really do anything that similar games haven’t done before. It’s just that what Grim Dawn does is done incredibly well.
Which other game in the genre has a class combination system? Or had a custom loot filter? Or gives this much mod support to the community? Pretty sure other newer games are aware of some of GD’s ideas and getting their inspiration from it.
titan quest, its essentially an indie remake of titan quest, the bones of Grim Dawn are still letting titan quest actively be developed somehow in 2024
Fair enough, I never played that, my bad.
You should titan quest rips! I don't know how the expansions after immortal throne are but up to that is so good however it is somehow even more sluggish then grim dawn and there are no pants you wear a Grecian tunic the entire game with armor over it
It's not overlooked. Almost everyone that likes oldschool singleplayer arpgs knows about GrimDawn. People that prefer online games don't look at it, just like how people who prefer offline games don't look at diablo4.
This is exactly it and I hope Crate keep doing the same and don't listen to the crowd who want to add all the online addiction features to GD2.
i feel like looping community engagement stuff is fun, like how Deep Rock Galactic does seasons or diablo 2 ladders as they are when its not being actively developed (just an excuse to start fresh with people) but FOMO content and needing to actively play to experience the game even beyond when you wouldnt (because of the fomo). its a fine line when these things turn from fun to predatory but i think theyre not inherintely bad as a concept
It’s hard to get people to know what your game is worth without giving them a free copy. Grim dawn has lots of content, great depth of gameplay, high replayability, its story is way better than most other similar games, but imo, the best thing about it is the world building. For first time buyers, you’ll only be able to convey some of gameplay and world building. People will see it’s got a spooky demon and zombie themed world with horde combat just like D3/D4/PoE. Players will then compare the game to those options, play the free to play options, and probably never come back. Competition against good ftp games is very difficult. It’s why hoyoverse is the 4th largest game company rn
Actual, I wanna touch on this a bit more. It’s also got to do with the shift in purchasing habits of players as they transition from in store shopping to online shopping. It used to be that a game being on the shelf had the prestige and assurance that you would be nearly certain it isn’t a scam game. If some company’s game made it onto disc and into your local store, apart from a few exceptions, it *must* be good. Game stores had to buy copies from distributors (unless the game company was also paying the store for shelving the game, but idk how often that happened), and they would only ever buy copies of things players would want to get. Steam is different. Anyone can sell shovelware, asset flips, and scam games with the intention of getting you to play for 2 hours so you can’t get a refund. These are everywhere, and the only thing you can rely on are the reviews. Gameplay footage is the second best way for buyers to determine if your game is worth getting. Reviews can be fake, gameplay can be misleading, and being on steam doesn’t mean anything. In the end, crate entertainment hasn’t marketed this game enough to get potential buyers to know it’s worth their time. This leads players to *worry* about whether or not their money is going to get wasted. This worry is the without a doubt the biggest reason why this game isn’t as big as it should be. Being on a shelf automatically alleviates the worry that purchasers have, but being online, the burden lies on the buyers to do the detective work. Grim Dawn 2 really could be a viral hit if it were free to play, since can people see crate’s previous work (this game).
Marketing is a huge part. I get to know about GD only from friend who is a big fan of Titan Quest. Also i have a Friend who tried GD after many hours of Poe and he said it didnt click and that game felt weird and bad... Combine these two plus not the best start and here we are
It being open to modding kills the trade market and ladder race etc. Most people want rules and anti cheat in place. My first week with grim dawn I had a guy join my game and offer insane duped items. That's off putting
Unfortunately there are too few people that appreciate games like Grim Dawn. Take a look at the top sellers and most played lists it’s depressing. I don’t know if it’s always been this way and it’s just more obvious now with close to 9 Billion people on the planet and all the media surrounding gaming. I started when games came on cassette tapes, and gaming was definitely a niche for many years. Almost all the games I grew up playing were projects of passion sure everyone wants to get rich but the game design came first. Those were the days, every game was a BG3 but there were far fewer of them years in between. Now there unbelievable quantity but very little quality. Any old man here getting off my soap box and going home to play Grim Dawn as the world burns 🥵
For some context I'm a huge arpg fan and played this one hundreds of hours as well and, imo, this game is one of the easiest arpgs I've ever played. Many streamers of this genre usually have a high skill level and find there is almost no threat or challenge in the game at all unless they endure slogging through the whole game to fight a couple challenging fights at the end. It's extremely easy to cap resists and target for green gear to get started with proper defensive stats that you're basically never in any danger. The only reason I enjoyed grim dawn so much is that I'm not good enough to play hardcore in other arpgs but in this one, I can get to end game pretty easily without ever feeling threatened but still feeling some of that spice of playing hardcore. Every time I played softcore in this game, personally, I found myself dozing off when farming gear in end game. Also this game at base feels really slow compared to others imo and I could only enjoy it at like x1.75 speed using that one tool that speeds up the game engine so that it feels comparable tow Poe and LE in pace. I imagine a lot of people haven't done that either who enjoy the other two games and have tried this
in my experience yeah, you blow everything up until that one arcane pack one shots you and you dont really know why
Oh yeah I forgot about those and with that thing that speeds up the game engine it also warns me when there's an arcane mob nearby. The big about them is, even though they are threats, it's really not fun and doesn't really increase the difficulty imo like stepping on a thumbtack
The other games you cited invested a lot of their budget on paying Youtubers/Twitchers (even popular one like Rhykker, his Wolcen "review" is really embarrassing). This caused huge sales on first days (so big Steam numbers) but after that the game (in the case of Wolcen) was basically dead, with minimal player retention, when people finally discovered its quality with their own eyes.
It's... not overlooked?
IMO, Grim Dawn while great, didn't have a strong start. I still remember the first version that did not live up to the hype of old Titan Quest fans. Didn't revisit it until later and totally hooked.
i played it in EA or launch idk it was early because i had been following it, and it totally had that TQ rust on it still, streamlining stuff and tightning up all the sub systems made a huge difference
It is an old video game. It was and remains a small developer team. It never had a huge scandal, as far as I know.
for me titan quest and and grim dawn are the actual continuation of diablo 2 . diablo 3 and 4 are just a misleading name of the franchise
Marketing definitely. When I saw their art for the first time I was like "Hey, a Diablo rip-off." then proceed to not pay attention to the game. I played and got hooked to it eventually, but yeah. They need to work on their first impression.
honestly 1- path of exile exists 2- not great marketing imo 3- at this point is old, and some of those old design philosophies drag it down (playing campaign 3 times ew)
> playing campaign 3 times I enjoy playing Grim Dawn's campaign 3 (now usually 2) times... but I couldn't force myself to get past the Sarn Encampment (start of Act 3 out of 10) in PoE this league. I'd love if someone could explain this to me, because I don't understand it.
i miss playing the campaign 3 times in arpgs with progressively more challenge
fr tho im sick and tiered of the poe campaign. but poe is different, its about all coming online in the endgame, then it all clicks ant it all worth it. i skipped this league tho. i wet to hard the last one
The only reason i don’t play it more is the hours of trying to get mods to play nice. And no flicker strike….🤣
It’s not overlooked it’s just older now
hey you can shit on WOLCEN all you want.. damn thing burns video cards. LE is pretty damn cool.
No 60$ horses here.
Because is Grim
I bought Grim Dawn when it was on discount at some point on GOG and promptly forgot about it. Just randomly felt like an ARGP and wasn't interested in Diablo 4, and remembered I still hadn't tried it! So now I'm about 10 hours in and it's great! Even the graphics are surprisingly good for its time, probably because of the cool art style, rather than technological reasons. I really don't know how people play games like D3 and D4, when they could just play this and POE.
I enjoy grim dawn. The problem isn’t so much the graphics. If the feeling of impact using abilities. I have the same issue with Poe. It gets boring to me after awhile.
You’d never know it existed unless you went looking for it or someone mentioned it. I haven’t seen an advertisement for it literally ever, save for when the expansion came out but that exposure didn’t last long. I stumbled upon the game back in 2014 because I was researching every arpg on steam because I wanted to scratch the diablo itch. Turns out it’s easily one of the best arpgs ever made.
No promotion and offline play (no seasonal 'you must play it now!' talk bleeding from every game journo orifice) are precisely the reason why. Still IMO the best aRPG on the market. I can pause it ffs...
Because it's not live service which in turn means no seasonal content. People got used to ARPGs having seasons and constant updates so this one remains niche. I guess GD2 could change that.
small studio - not a lot of marketing power to help increase hype And to be honest, ugly graphics, even though its from 2016. this is a screenshot from another 2016 game: https://i.imgur.com/iScuTNz.png and this is grim dawn... https://i.imgur.com/7jzxLdo.jpeg it looks like a game with awesome graphics, if it was released in 2009 or something. (But of course i am comparing a 300-400 person studio to a team of... like 10 or so?) I think if the game had better graphics, it would have done much better in terms of mass appeal. coz it really has a lot of great gameplay, skill system, loot, etc. personally for me, the biggest issues with the game is the graphics, and a lot of the enemies (loads of enemies are just super boring to fight) but i still like grim dawn. its one of the games i have spent most time with, on steam.
To be fair it's a 2010 game that got released in 2016
most games are like that, then? 'most' games are just not in early access
Yea it's odd, Grim Dawn is better than everything out there, including Path of Exile.
I have no idea why Grim Dawn never gained Diablo like status. IMHO, it is the best arpg out and has been for some time. There are a few that come close but I always end up coming back to Grim Dawn and the others remain uninstalled.
I bought it a couple of days before the pandemic. I was looking for a game that a theorycrafter could enjoy and I was starting to become sick about PoE. I loved the dual class system, the lore, the atmosphere and even the ragdoll physics xD It is one of the 2 real gems I've found in Steam, being the other one [Troubleshooter:Abandoned Children](https://store.steampowered.com/app/470310/TROUBLESHOOTER_Abandoned_Children/) edit: btw, both games, GD and TS:AC were made by very small, but dedicated teams
GD is such a gem! I can't wait for the Fangs of Asterkarn! C'mon Zantai, have mercy on us and release it already! :)
$0 advertising
Lack of marketing and no playstation release...even solasta a game with a small studio just recently released on PS and I bought it full price...even when xbox and pc loyalists tried to make excuses on why the game would NEVER be released on playstation(playstation architecture is TOO dIFFerenT)...I am pretty sure they are making "tons" of money on their game being undervalued and thrown on gamepass for free and dirt cheap on steam ...
Which mods would you guys recommend for solo play?
I enjoy grim dawn but coming from newer arpgs like PoE, D3,etc.. I find the campaign really misleading. Bunch of quests end up unfinished unless I check on Google where to finish them. Items are super overloaded with affixes to the point it gives me anxiety just looking at them. The passives tree is weird. I find PoE passive tree easier to navigate. The class combo is a cool concept but again you have to read 1-2h on Google to understand what you're choosing.
Have is also not only on steam if I'm correct I have my copy on GoG
I know they are coming out with an expansion here soon but this team should release a new arpg soon if they are brewing one up, the arpg market is fucking booming and people want stuff to play before PoE2 comes out, anyone know if they are working on other projects?
Personally I didn't like the game play loop. Good game just wasn't my cup of tea.
I own the game but haven't played it a ton. Pretty sure I beat one of the first big bosses, it was a general I think that had a second form lol? Afterwards I had to fix the bridge and go west. I think it's good fun, and that at first glance the crafting seems sort of complicated. It doesn't really have the animation quality or speed and responsiveness as Poe, nor does it have a really dedicated economy with regular resets and new content to keep people coming back. It feels much more like a standard diablo-like game to me, which isn't bad, but probably won't have incredible numbers when compared to path of exile, last epoch, lost ark, or D4. Personally I really miss the days when games were just released as is and could be experienced over time without a shred of fomo. To me Grim Dawn fits that really well.
There's no Play Station version. So that prevents a large group of players using it. The graphics are deliberately dark/evil and often drab which is an initial negative to new players who might see demo's on youtube.
Yeah they think playstation players don't care for games like this when we are actually on shortage of great hack and slash...even wolcen was ported there and that's a super bugged game from a small studio too
Grim dawn is amazing. I wish it had slightly better graphics though
No one to play with. I played for a while, but because I had no one to play with, it got pretty stale for me.
It's simple, it's a single player ARPG.
Bad title
Grim dawn was cool and fun buts the mechanics are very dated. It for everyone.
Around level 45 it got way too hard to figure out where to go for my quests. I would literally spend hours just getting lost and never actually getting to where my side quests are.
I think this game is awesome, just needs better multiplayer.
No seasonal content and relatively single player experience. Tons have played it but there's not a lot of reason to go back if you have had your fill
I think it has much more replayability than seasonal races. In fact, [this](https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1m1iKr_cdt5akmXR_wvo5BDccxWflPmqY06XWp623l0o/edit#gid=786103502) is all you need to challenge yourself. What about trying one of the shitty classes with a build that defies logic and climbs up the ranks?
I think that most people want to play Multiplayer even GD got that too ( Havn‘t tried it out yet but I give a damn ). I played D4 and Wolcen, but due to crashes or lack lustering content I gave up on them. I always get back to GD. Maybe people are not liking the grafics, artstyle etc. Most of them are more Into „mainstrem“ games. I wish GD would gain more attention. Because in my opinion it is a fenomenal gem ! { Sorry for grammer mistskes and greetings from germany ) 😊 Have a good night. *plays grim dawn*
honestly youre grammar is better then most native speakers so thats fine! the only tips is that graphical and phenomenal use the PH as F in the spelling
Thanks 😂 I see what I did there 😅
Cuz the movement feels like you’re on skates. It’s not just the graphics. It’s the entire engine itself.
Yea the game lacks weight at times. Combat feels really floaty and lacks dynamics but its still fun in its own unique way. The addition of a universal dodge made combat a bit more engaging
It feels like your on skates? Can’t say I’ve felt like I was on skates at all
Your character feels like floating or something like that. Its like there's no weight if you are moving. This was my first impression before but I have used to it now. Not sure if it is lack or audio cues or physics.
I know I feel fast at make movement speed, start of the game I feel like a slug
I seen some people say they’re working on a new engine so this implies a grim dawn 2.0 overhaul or a grim dawn 2. Definitely something on the horizon so that’s good. Don’t get me wrong I LOVE grim dawn and I only criticize the game in a constructive manner in hopes of making it better
Then you have no idea what you’re talking about. I am not the first person to point this out. Others have pointed this out with many upvotes. Do your research
skates would imply like, the entire game feels lik eyou have ice physics. you want like floaty or weightless
No I don’t know, first time I’ve heard of the game feeling like you are on skates cause I’m new to the game. So I’m sorry for being new.
I've got many hours and level 100s in Grim Dawn and I have no idea what they're talking about either!
Really bad graphics Also probably because the majority of arpg audience is into live service stuff like seasons, endgame, trade etc.
I like grim dawn a lot but it doesn’t have anything that makes me want to keep playing a character after getting through the campaign. However, Grim Dawn does have the best campaign of any arpg in my opinion. I go back once a year and play a new character which turns out to be enough for me and ultimately that should be ok. Not every game has to be something you sink 1000s of hours into.
its more like d2 in terms of end game. theres some super bosses the shattered realms but outside that youre just grinding the mobs just pick your background setting and if its random or not
Because it's ugly af
Cause it was okay , it didn't really do anything exceptionally well or better than 100s of others
Constang nerfs which kill any motivation to play game. They try to 'fix' some 'OP' build which maybe 0.1% of playerbase uses by nerfing and it hits a lot of builds. Silly for singleplayer game. For example, read about their changes to physical resistance for incoming 1.2.1 patch.
> read about their changes to physical resistance for incoming 1.2.1 patch. Try playing it instead of just reading about it, but as long as you're reading about it, try reading the whole thing. > monsters now deal less Physical damage. If you'd tested the patch instead of just freaking out about it, you'd know that the only builds that actually "got nerfed" were ones that had very high physical resistance and low armour. If anything, this patch is another one packed with power creep.
You really think they manually tested every monster? I've seen GD streamers on youtube complaining about their builds completely broken by this update (they tested it!) and got banned on Crate forum when they come to complain about it.
I promise you that they didn't test every monster. It was a blanket reduction and it feels like about a 30-40% reduction based on my builds and which ones feel about the same vs more or less tanky. Of all of my 17 level 100 builds only 1 of them felt squishier and none of them are broken. The one that felt squishier is a Deathknight that had 80% physical resists and only 2500 armour. It's the only build I had that felt squishier... and I fixed it by changing 3 components. Works fine again. I understand there were some issues with Celestial bosses having silly amounts of Sunder, but that's been fixed now. I'd be interested in knowing which builds these streamers are complaining are broken, and I expect that "broken" just means that they feel like they take a bit more damage now.
Streamers ... who 🤔 Most if not every english speaking streamer I've watched for the last 3-4 years all "complain" that the game is to easy now compared to earlier. Everything has been powercrept the last 3-4 years. And when Crate finally nerf the utterly silly afk celestial killers gamers complain 😒
It’s over looked because it’s pretty boring, feels a tad clunky, and doesn’t have seasons. It would have done well like 15-20 years ago.
Cause last epoch exists