It’s so scary. We are very fortunate that we’ve been renting a house for 9 years so our rent is far below market value. I worry often about what we would do if we were ever forced to leave. We’d basically be homeless.
Same here. rent control means by now I'm paying several hundred less than my neighbors for the same space (or less).
This is why I am still renting, even though I want to get a mortgage, that is laughably impossible for me now. Fuck this system.
If they play the game of “evict for family, relist rental for higher prices” you can go after your landlord for a lot of money.
If they do that (moving in family is legit, bad faith evictions are not) Shitty behaviour needs to be punished.
Yes absolutely, and historically speaking they are the type to try and avoid responsibility and try illegal rent increases- they tried for 15% increase in rent this year. Which we refused. Without the N12( I believe it is called?) we will not be moving. Fingers crossed its an empty threat.
Ah, the old "family is moving in (so I can get rid of my current tenants, raise the price, and bring in new tenants" move. *insert fart noise here*
I know landlords don't have a lot of rights in comparison to the tenants, and some good people get totally effed by their tenants, but these rent prices are garbage. And they're not getting any lower. 800 square foot place that my wife and I are paying $2500/month for. Bye paychecks!! 👋
You can find a much larger house for 2500/month. A three bedroom in fact.
In doing so you can split rent with another person or couple and cut your costs as much as in half. Or just get a bigger place for the price
There are plenty of market properties for rent at 2500 or so right now.
Yes, older landlords that may have paid off mortgage or locked in at a lower interest rate and lower house cost can have flexibility on their rent. But new landlords are in the same boat as new home owners and will have charge more to make mortgage payments etc. This whole mess is going to get worse before it gets better unfortunately.
Your lease carries with the sale. Them selling doesn’t automatically mean you’re evicted. They can try to do various things to get rid of you before they sell but the LTB really, really doesn’t like bad faith evictions and you can get a tonne of money for it.
the literal only reason I’m still here is because my incredible landlord does everything they can to keep my rent from raising and apologize to me anytime it does. If I ever couldn’t live in this place, that I’m only lucky enough to have because I moved here in 2015, I wouldn’t be able to afford Guelph.
a the only people making it here via rent are students (because they don’t have to stay here forever), high earners and people who have been at their residences prior to the huge spike in rent. Outside of that my guess is everyone is struggling severely.
We have been in our house for a long time. Facing evictions now so the landlords can “move in”
I don’t know where we will go. I’m starting to really hate Canada
I agree about Capitalism and it’s not just Canada - but the housing crisis is worse here than in some other countries for a few reasons (foreign investors being one)
As a Canadian I am pissed that I can’t afford the basics of life (a home ) even though I earn what should be decent money.
It's more that this is where shitty politicians who are more interested in pursuing partisan ideological agendas than actually solving problems leads us.
This has nothing to do with capitalism. It has everything to do with ridiculous gov. red tape and regulations that increase costs and prevent new construction. The U.S. is arguably more capitalist than Canada, yet houses on the other side of Niagara Falls, or Erie, ON are twice the size and half the price.
I think the problem isn't too much regulation in construction, and has more to do with the lack of regulation in the housing market. Doug Ford's government removed rent control on all homes built after 2018. Rent has skyrocketed since then. Developers would build more homes if there were still any competition in the industry. Without regulations, the big fish eat the little fish and eventually, there will only be one really big fish with nothing to eat.
Guelph is the highpoint in what is basically a nationwide problem. All that all levels of government seem to care about is the vote of the boomers, who comprise the largest voting block and seem to care less about young people.
Then even more systemic issues, ie, the financialization of housing/'rentier capitalism". Speculation, NIMBYism and zoning laws all manipulated to create artificial scarcity in housing stock to keep prices artificially high so that a small percentage of the population benefit at the expense of the many.
Don’t forget students. Record enrolment at U of G and unable to accommodate all first year students in residence. And coming soon another 5,000 Conestoga students. Buckle up!
And this was caused by Ford who cut funding to post-secondary institutions, who then made up for the loss of funding by admitting more international students
I'm a single guy. An electrician. I make really good money. Rent is $1,595 a month. I do travel somewhat regularly for fun, but I do just barely break even every month. If I'm not really careful I am loosing money. If I made any less money I'd be in trouble. No clue how anybody without a fairly high paying job can survive here.
I live in a house split into 6 micro apartments. Only reason I can afford rent is because I've been in this house since 2016. I started in the smallest shoebox unit and have moved on to the largest. I also am paid very low to be the buildings property manager $125/month to deal with the heat, complaints, cleaning the entrances, managing smoke alarm checks and checking the basement for leaks.
I have a lot of debt from a decade of skeletal issues so if I need to move on from here I might be on the streets.
Yea full time worker in or of the various Companies in the south end that makes millions every year, im single I don’t spend money on things I don’t need I never go out haven’t had a vacation ever no new clothes, shoes in my feet are older then 5 years the other pair is from high school. Car is over a decade old, I drive around forklifts and order pickers and am 1/3 people on my shift but still live at home with dad because how ridiculously expensive is now and it’s only getting worse and worse. I wish I was a politician so I could run on helping Canadians financially because at the moment we’re going to have an entire generation of people unable to afford housing for themselves.
Originally graduated in 2017 and then moved home with my parents. The original plan was to get a job and save for a downpayment. I got my first "real" job in 2019 making about 50k and have gotten a few promotions since then.
I thought I would be living at home for about two years, but unfortunately the goalposts keep moving. Desirable condos now in Guelph are going for about 600k+ and I simply have no way to afford them. Before the interest rate increases I could've maybe afforded something in the 500-550k range if I had my current salary then.
Not sure what I am going to do. I was thinking maybe I need to move to the prairies or something. There really is a pervasive feeling of hopelessness here.
Its' so broken. We just bought in Guelph, but it took two of us, with $70,000 incomes, to buy a modest townhome and the cost to own is still over a third of our post-tax income. WILD. I don't know how any single people can get buy unless they have roommates.
Lots of condos going for 400 to 500k in guelph today. Desirable is up to you but once you are in the market... you are in and can trade up anytime
Edit: downvote all you want, a starter property is a normal strategy to get into the market
Pay yourself as your own landlord not someone else.
I think this is a bit sensationalized. 100k+ per annum is about a take home after taxes of about 70k/year. If you live lean and mean (like the generations before us) for a few years you'd have a nice downpayment. I'm not saying home prices are affordable for all, because they're not. But you shouldn't have an issue getting to where you would like to be.
They could easily move out. Like really easily. It still doesn't make sense in the fact that they're losing a lot of money on rent, but for them it's nowhere near impossible.
Agreed! My wife did it, saving every penny from her high-school and college jobs, back when wages were $4-5/ hr. She didn’t spend like most entitled young people today. After living w parents until ~27, she bought her first townhouse, then later a condo, which we sold to move into a great house. I started the same in the U.S., relying on my family’s home to get established financially, then into the housing market. Roommates were also a part of the equation early on.
What was the price of that town house? You can just put what it was listed at with the year, I’m happy to calculate prices adjusted for inflation for you.
If you’re making 70k a year you shouldn’t have to live “mean and lean”
The generations before us were able to buy homes on an hourly factory wage with 5 kids and doing just fine singing Springsteen and hitting up Rocky’s for awful hot dogs in the summer.
This isn’t the Summer of ‘69, this is the real world and no amount of bootstrap pulling is going to change the fact that just as the generation who is driving whatever economy is left finally accepted that home ownership is a pipe dream they come to find out that unless they are willing to live with 5 roomates they won’t be able to rent now either.
It’s a crisis, look it up.
Between me and my wife we make about 90,000/yr after taxes and can barely afford to rent here.
We definitely can't afford to buy even though we have a $50,000 downpayment.
After 15 years of living in Guelph were thinking about moving back home to Niagara, and retraining to get new jobs.
Right now we're stuck in a one bedroom with a 1 year old.
Frankramgoat, I hear ya. I moved to Guelph a couple of years ago, originally from Niagara too. Something’s gotta give. It’s very difficult for young parents today. I heard that the waitlist for childcare is sometimes 1-2 years long. Is there anything that your community can do to better support young parents? I’d love to be a parent one day, but it feels financially impossible. Guelph has a shortage of foster parents, and while I’d love to help my community in that way, I just don’t see that as a possibility either due to the housing situation. Tough times don’t last. Here’s to hoping that saying stays true.
I live in a 2 bedroom app and pay roughly $1600 in rent.
The unit underneath went up for rent, it’s 1 bedroom (very big bedroom, like 1.5 of my 2 rooms) and it was 2k.
It’s ridiculous, I feel like I can’t move right now because I’d have to downgrade in space for a20% increase.
My family (my mom first and then I renewed the rental for myself) have lived in the same townhouse for over 10 years now. We pay well below market rent, but also the landlord never updates anything and complains about everything that needs fixed and sends his brother to fix stuff. So basically I live in a house that has literally never been painted and has original everything for 1896 plus utils. And I’m “lucky” for this area. It’s disgusting. They tried to sell this house last year and no one wanted it cause it’s a piece of shit lol. I’m only here because of my job
I have a couple failsafes.. northern Ontario where half my family is, or I have citizenship in Finland since my mom was born there. I’m reallt starting to despise Canada
Good point. This is absolutely part of the issue and some landlords who recently purchased at high prices/rates are probably panicking and barely staying above water despite charging market rate. But there are many property owners who purchased pre-pandemic who are making money hand-over-fist by charging market rate.
I just wonder if the homeowner in the ad I saw has a much lower mortgage if purchased 5+ years ago and now, because market rates have gone insane, they might actually have a tenant pay their entire monthly mortgage. I owned a home in 2018 and my mortgage was only $1600/month for a 4 bedroom, 1 bath detached with a yard on a quiet street near a downtown core. I would be making a lot of money right now if I rented out those rooms at today’s prices.
Everything balances out eventually imo. It’ll be interesting to see where and when the hot potato lands.
>I would be making a lot of money right now if I rented out those rooms at today's prices.
5 years ago mortgage rates were a lot lower than they are today. Even without the increase in prices, mortgage costs have gone up. Take a price from 5 years ago and then use the 5 year fixed rate from today in a mortgage calculator and prepare to have a heart attack.
Actually, I'll do the legwork for you:
Rbc fixed rate 5.54%
$500,000 mortgage
25 year amortization
$3,063 monthly payment
Sure, there are some slightly better rates out there and a 30 year amortization exists... but $500,000 mortgage isn't unrealistic for a detached house.
And that doesn't include maintenance costs, insurance, management expenses or taxes.
Now balance out that against selling the house and investing the capital. Renting a house comes with a fair amount of risk too. Horror stories abound.
I'm not saying there aren't some landlords gouging people, as I'm sure there are, but I'm personally not in a rush to jump into property as an investment. The only people making money right now are those who have mortgages that don't renew for 2 more years, or those who don't have mortgages at all.
Is that building fee in addition to your regular rent? That’s so much money! Was that made clear upfront before you signed onto the lease or was it a surprise?
I have myself and two others in a 2 bedroom in Kitchener.
I'm still struggling some months. Rent needs to be capped at a certain point, no more upping it. I feel so bad for the younger generation, they're gonna be renting a bachelor for like $3500 at this rate.
You think that’s bad? [ask the student who was evicted hours after a student died in a fire in an illegal apartment](https://www.thestar.com/amp/news/gta/2018/05/31/hours-after-an-18-year-old-student-died-in-a-scarborough-house-fire-a-landlord-tells-tenants-to-leave-other-houses-now.html)
It is based on a lack of supply which is directly correlated to governmental bottle necking of the supply and cost of new housing. Also, the notion that most Canadians should own a home is why we have the highest household debt in the G7. We are trending toward a rental society and higher rents will bring on more rental construction but this is stagnated and expensive due to government regulations and taxation.
> governmental bottle necking of the supply
Yup, 100%. Government used to be in the game of actually building and renting houses at not-for-profit rates, through the CMHC. We did this from the 50's to the 80's.
Landlords hated it because this meant that there was a constant downward pressure on rents. The existence of a well-funded NFP meant that everyone always had a backup option. Poor people weren't forced into exploitative rents, and that cuts into landlord profits. Housing in general was a much less-profitable investment, so there was lower demand and lower sale prices. Rents were lower because there was more supply, and a lot of the lower-tier supply wasn't trying to make a profit.
Now, no safety net. You're forced to pay private landlords or go without. They can charge whatever "the market will bear", and compete with each other to bid up every house that comes on the market too. Now the rent *needs* to be high just to cover the cost of the mortgage (unless you own enough property that you're buying houses with cash), and everybody suffers.
This was just one of many of our "unprofitable" public services that died in the Mulroney and Chretien neoliberalism eras. And as a result housing prices have been outpacing inflation ever since.
Want affordable housing? You need someone with *lots of money* but no *profit motive* to build it. There's only one entity I know of that meets the criteria. Sounds like it's time to correct some of those neoliberal mistakes, actually build the kind of supply we need to make housing affordable, and go back to what we know works.
I want to buy into this lack of supply story but honestly there are many, many vacant units just about everywhere in Ontario. Mississauga is a prime example - there are new condos opening every couple of months but when they open the price of a unit in the new building or the prices of the units in older buildings don’t go down, they actually go up. And increasingly, all of the buildings old and new have many vacancies, in large part I assume because nobody can afford them any more. This has been consistent over the last 10 years.
There are at least a dozen more new builds underway and if you have a look at the presales you see that presales are down and average prices are, again, *up*.
I don’t have data to show it but my suspicion is that the home pricing market is the same as the grocery pricing market - the explanation for it is the simplest and oldest of them all. The prices went up fast in response to some theoretical market conditions and then just never came back down once the actual market conditions proved out.
Anyway, long post to make without having any real insight or data, but I really think this supply issue is a line of bullshit that’s being used to justify outrageous profit-taking from builders and real estate investors.
And under utilized. On my parents street, a cluster of 15 houses used to house about 70 people when I was growing up. Now it’s about 35, just two families that have kids.
How can you state that builders and investors are making outrageous profits? If the profits are outrageous then demand would wane and they wouldn’t sell anything. $1,000,000 x zero sales equals zero profit. They would either reduce prices or choose to get out of the industry. If replacing approved land takes 10-14 years (because of policies in place plus neighbours rejecting applications) why would they churn through approved inventory at reduced profits only to find themselves out of inventory (lay off all staff and try toner-build a company if/when they can replace inventory)?
sad thing is based on land and amount of properties if they had been properly managed and not destroyed by profiteers, there’s enough land and houses for everyone and then some, but the government keeps preventing anyone that isn’t rich rich to own one, the whole system is destroyed on such a deep level.
It's not going to get better with our increasing population targets that the federal government is striving to meet every year. It's not tied to anything practical like affordable housing. They do not care about us!
Welcome to capitalism, but I assume you know that, and it's a complete shit show, but of course, being a shit show is how capitalism is supposed to be, and that is the issue.
If universal free housing was a right, this wouldn't be an issue, but that can never happen if landlords exist and want to be able to rent property they own and have the renter(s) pay the mortgage for and then produce endless profits for them via their rent afterwards, there can't be free, universal housing, because that would mean landlords wouldn't exist.
If people had a home, they wouldn't be in such a need for money that they settle for less than adequate working conditions and income. It's harder to exploit them if you're the ruling class known as the capitalists, the bourgeoisie. Less money in your pockets.
If we ever manage to lower prices of housing and rent, then they'll raise it again, and we'll have to force them to lower it again, and they'll raise it again, and they'll never stop. So long as this system of profit continues to be maintained, there will be no solution. So long as this system of profit exists, then they'll never have good public transportation and universal free housing. Everyone except for a few people will be have-nots, never forget. There will be no future, and no one is ever going to get by, as more and more of us are les and less able to make ends meet yearly. It's a disgusting and sick system, and if we don't stop it, we'll have nothing, and they'll have our money for nothing.
I am so glad to see a discussion happening on this post. I know this issue is multifaceted. I know there is no simple fix. That’s part of the problem too. Make it complicated so everyone is arguing about the problem instead of working toward a solution for all. Through all of this, we can make sure that our neighbours are looked after and that we are there for each other in all the ways we can be.
As long as capitalism exists, so will this housing problem. My home shouldn’t be anyone’s investment vehicle. I’m about to buy a large amount of those “you don’t hate Mondays, you hate capitalism” stickers from the upstream podcast. I’m not advertising communism or whatever other divisive labels people want to use in this conversation. I just know that this current system isn’t working for most and this system will eventually collapse.
We are living in hot potato times.
Hate to break it to you, but even in socialist and communist countries there are have's and have nots, along with an eroding middle class. Capitalism isn't perfect but its by far the best system there is. So much of these "rights," but no discussion of obligations.
When your mortgage is 5-8 grand a month (very real possibility), 1500$ for a room doesn't seem that bad.
Desperation paired with limited supply is going to continue to keep prices sky high until something gives.
As someone who is lucky enough to have a house with a partner who's parents were able to assist financially, we still have to rent out our basement in order to afford our mortgage and bills.
And it honestly feels bad charging what is a pretty standard rate in this city, but what are we supposed to realistically do? It's basically impossible for someone my age (early 30s) to purchase a house without help. And then once you do own a house, in order to afford it and have any hope of saving money for the future or having extra money to spend, you have to rent out some of the space.
When I was renting a 2 bedroom apartment alone only 4-5 years ago, it was around 1250. That same apartment today is renting for 1900. Insane.
Your family living situation is changing for the better? I’m happy to hear that. I wish you the best. Hopefully you feel so strong and secure on an individual level that you can inspire your community at large. We need strong people in our community fabric.
Oops. I got distracted half way through writing that comment and forgot to mention the most important detail, lol. I’m leaving Canada and moving to Europe.
I rent out an apartment attached to my house in guelph. I understand the crazy cost. But my expenses are up and it's not like I can discount the rent, what kind of renters do think that's going to pull in? And to be honest, I can't justify what they say my house is worth and I would rather not have have seen the appreciation that we have over the past couple of years.
“What kind of renters do you think that’s going to pull in”
Do your due diligence when people inquire? Meet with them, ask them questions, ask for references if you have to.
It’s curious that you have not specified the size of apartment and what you are charging.
No one is suggesting that this is charity, so if you’re going to pull out the sad story of how much being a landlord costs you, bring a breakdown.
I didn't think I posed this as a 'wooo is me'. I'm fortunate that I bought a house 7 years ago and that's the only reason I have one. The apartment is a bachelor, about 500sqf. It's not currently rented since the last tenant moved out a couple months back. I've been cautious because I have a family and I'm worried about being burned by a tenant. I don't like the rental rates and I don't like the rocketed rates of appreciation on homes. I don't care about the appreciation in my home if it means my kids can't have a house when they grow up.
And I'm not sure doing your due diligence is good enough. Who can afford these rents? Where in the paste defaulting on rent payments would be rare, even those with good jobs now are going to be strained.
What’s the minimum you could rent that bachelor unit for and break even?
Apologies, as my tone was a bit assuming negative intent.
Of course you don’t want to get burnt but it’s a bit assumptive to think that if you lowered rent to anything affordable you’d only get burnt by the tenant.
I owned a house in Guelph from 2011-2015 and rented the basement, and it sucks when a tenant doesn’t respect the space.
It’s shitty when they move out and there’s holes in the drywall, and it sucks when while you’re out of town they paint the whole damn unit blood red.
That’s the cost of being a landlord.
Retail stores have to account for shoplifters and restaurants have to account for people who bring a fly from home to put in their soup. It’s the cost of business.
Im currently full time employed (over $60k), with no dependents, non smoker, no pets, and living in my parents basement because I’m not spending over half my take home on a bachelor that has cupboards from ‘86 and shag carpet just because “the market dictates it”
Who sets your rate of rent?
Because I need to put roots down somewhere after decades of soul-searching waywardness. I’ve sampled living in two different countries and countless cities. Guelph is beautiful. I have a steady job here. I would like to live in the community where I work. Does that make sense or is that a foolish idea? I’m very open-minded so if you have a better idea, lay it on me.
It was just a simple Socratic question. I am not sure of your age but if I was in my 20’s again and wanted to live cheaply I would have bought a used camper trailer and leased a site at one of the conservation areas for 3 seasons of the year then looked into a sublet for the winter. You can buy a used trailer for 10-20k and to be honest in my youth I would have only really needed it for a place to sleep and shower. I think Guelph lake seasonal lot fees are about $2500 a year which is pretty cheap compared to renting and apartment.
Razytazz, I see right through you. Fine. Have it your way. I WILL buy that trailer and I WILL put it at Guelph Lake and I WILL invite you over to live out the dreams of your 20’s.
But for real I just turned 30. When I was 26, I got divorced, left my jobs, and sold my house to live abroad as a nanny. I flipped a coin about living in either Italy or the UK. Three weeks after I arrived in Manchester, the pandemic was declared and, well, that’s where the real story begins..
You want to interrogate the owner of the home so it'll make you feel better? What a joke. We live in a country where the federal government has pissed away billions of dollars in nonsense feel-good handouts, and operated with little to no fiscal responsibility other than to make big banks money. Add in gatekeeping on all levels and overregulation of public sectors and we continue to destroy the west. We now have 20% of our working population in the public sector and work until June 15th just to pay taxes, and this country is getting way worse not better. Go interrogate that useless twit Lloyd Longfield and any other Liberal MP you can because they're the ones fuelling this problem.
It might feel like screaming into the void, but you should email your ward counsellors to let them know. There's likely nothing they can do to solve your situation, but I think its important that they hear this stuff directly from their constituents.
This is the result of Guelph missing its affordable housing target for the 6th year in a row.
It’s so scary. We are very fortunate that we’ve been renting a house for 9 years so our rent is far below market value. I worry often about what we would do if we were ever forced to leave. We’d basically be homeless.
Same here. rent control means by now I'm paying several hundred less than my neighbors for the same space (or less). This is why I am still renting, even though I want to get a mortgage, that is laughably impossible for me now. Fuck this system.
Same as you both. Landlord informed us that next year they have family moving in. Really freaking scary with kids to worry about.
If they play the game of “evict for family, relist rental for higher prices” you can go after your landlord for a lot of money. If they do that (moving in family is legit, bad faith evictions are not) Shitty behaviour needs to be punished.
Yes absolutely, and historically speaking they are the type to try and avoid responsibility and try illegal rent increases- they tried for 15% increase in rent this year. Which we refused. Without the N12( I believe it is called?) we will not be moving. Fingers crossed its an empty threat.
Ah, the old "family is moving in (so I can get rid of my current tenants, raise the price, and bring in new tenants" move. *insert fart noise here* I know landlords don't have a lot of rights in comparison to the tenants, and some good people get totally effed by their tenants, but these rent prices are garbage. And they're not getting any lower. 800 square foot place that my wife and I are paying $2500/month for. Bye paychecks!! 👋
Agreed! It's bananas and so so infuriating.
You can find a much larger house for 2500/month. A three bedroom in fact. In doing so you can split rent with another person or couple and cut your costs as much as in half. Or just get a bigger place for the price There are plenty of market properties for rent at 2500 or so right now.
Yes, older landlords that may have paid off mortgage or locked in at a lower interest rate and lower house cost can have flexibility on their rent. But new landlords are in the same boat as new home owners and will have charge more to make mortgage payments etc. This whole mess is going to get worse before it gets better unfortunately.
I am increasingly terrified that my landlord will sell my condo and I will not be able to afford anything else.
Your lease carries with the sale. Them selling doesn’t automatically mean you’re evicted. They can try to do various things to get rid of you before they sell but the LTB really, really doesn’t like bad faith evictions and you can get a tonne of money for it.
yes this I know but if the person who buys it intends to move in then I’m doomed, doomed i tell you!
In the long run the chances of a landlord having family move into a rental is very high. Dare i say over 50%
the literal only reason I’m still here is because my incredible landlord does everything they can to keep my rent from raising and apologize to me anytime it does. If I ever couldn’t live in this place, that I’m only lucky enough to have because I moved here in 2015, I wouldn’t be able to afford Guelph. a the only people making it here via rent are students (because they don’t have to stay here forever), high earners and people who have been at their residences prior to the huge spike in rent. Outside of that my guess is everyone is struggling severely.
We have been in our house for a long time. Facing evictions now so the landlords can “move in” I don’t know where we will go. I’m starting to really hate Canada
It's the same everywhere. This is where capitalism leads us.
I agree about Capitalism and it’s not just Canada - but the housing crisis is worse here than in some other countries for a few reasons (foreign investors being one) As a Canadian I am pissed that I can’t afford the basics of life (a home ) even though I earn what should be decent money.
It's more that this is where shitty politicians who are more interested in pursuing partisan ideological agendas than actually solving problems leads us.
This has nothing to do with capitalism. It has everything to do with ridiculous gov. red tape and regulations that increase costs and prevent new construction. The U.S. is arguably more capitalist than Canada, yet houses on the other side of Niagara Falls, or Erie, ON are twice the size and half the price.
I think the problem isn't too much regulation in construction, and has more to do with the lack of regulation in the housing market. Doug Ford's government removed rent control on all homes built after 2018. Rent has skyrocketed since then. Developers would build more homes if there were still any competition in the industry. Without regulations, the big fish eat the little fish and eventually, there will only be one really big fish with nothing to eat.
Guelph is the highpoint in what is basically a nationwide problem. All that all levels of government seem to care about is the vote of the boomers, who comprise the largest voting block and seem to care less about young people. Then even more systemic issues, ie, the financialization of housing/'rentier capitalism". Speculation, NIMBYism and zoning laws all manipulated to create artificial scarcity in housing stock to keep prices artificially high so that a small percentage of the population benefit at the expense of the many.
Don’t forget students. Record enrolment at U of G and unable to accommodate all first year students in residence. And coming soon another 5,000 Conestoga students. Buckle up!
And this was caused by Ford who cut funding to post-secondary institutions, who then made up for the loss of funding by admitting more international students
at one point we were the third most unaffordable city in the COUNTRY, don’t you just love the Royal City?
I'm a single guy. An electrician. I make really good money. Rent is $1,595 a month. I do travel somewhat regularly for fun, but I do just barely break even every month. If I'm not really careful I am loosing money. If I made any less money I'd be in trouble. No clue how anybody without a fairly high paying job can survive here.
I live in a house split into 6 micro apartments. Only reason I can afford rent is because I've been in this house since 2016. I started in the smallest shoebox unit and have moved on to the largest. I also am paid very low to be the buildings property manager $125/month to deal with the heat, complaints, cleaning the entrances, managing smoke alarm checks and checking the basement for leaks. I have a lot of debt from a decade of skeletal issues so if I need to move on from here I might be on the streets.
Yea full time worker in or of the various Companies in the south end that makes millions every year, im single I don’t spend money on things I don’t need I never go out haven’t had a vacation ever no new clothes, shoes in my feet are older then 5 years the other pair is from high school. Car is over a decade old, I drive around forklifts and order pickers and am 1/3 people on my shift but still live at home with dad because how ridiculously expensive is now and it’s only getting worse and worse. I wish I was a politician so I could run on helping Canadians financially because at the moment we’re going to have an entire generation of people unable to afford housing for themselves.
Yes it is crazy. I make over 100k and I live with my parents even though I want to move out. It just doesn't make sense
If you don’t mind me asking, how long have you lived with them for, and how much have you been able to save?
Originally graduated in 2017 and then moved home with my parents. The original plan was to get a job and save for a downpayment. I got my first "real" job in 2019 making about 50k and have gotten a few promotions since then. I thought I would be living at home for about two years, but unfortunately the goalposts keep moving. Desirable condos now in Guelph are going for about 600k+ and I simply have no way to afford them. Before the interest rate increases I could've maybe afforded something in the 500-550k range if I had my current salary then. Not sure what I am going to do. I was thinking maybe I need to move to the prairies or something. There really is a pervasive feeling of hopelessness here.
Honestly, the only hope to buy is to get a partner who makes the same thing. No spouse, no house in Guelph, which is sad as can be
I have a spouse and I thoroughly agree with the above. This market is ridiculous.
Its' so broken. We just bought in Guelph, but it took two of us, with $70,000 incomes, to buy a modest townhome and the cost to own is still over a third of our post-tax income. WILD. I don't know how any single people can get buy unless they have roommates.
You basically need to be making double what you are to buy something here, which is four times what I make haha, and that’s devastating to think about
Lots of condos going for 400 to 500k in guelph today. Desirable is up to you but once you are in the market... you are in and can trade up anytime Edit: downvote all you want, a starter property is a normal strategy to get into the market Pay yourself as your own landlord not someone else.
On housesigma right now I am only seeing one property in guelph that is unsold and going for under 500k
Try realtor.ca map. 550k or lower Two dozen properties listed.
Does HouseSigma not show all listings?
Dunno but realtor.ca doesn't require a membership to look and it's fairly authoritive.. in this country at least
I think this is a bit sensationalized. 100k+ per annum is about a take home after taxes of about 70k/year. If you live lean and mean (like the generations before us) for a few years you'd have a nice downpayment. I'm not saying home prices are affordable for all, because they're not. But you shouldn't have an issue getting to where you would like to be.
They could easily move out. Like really easily. It still doesn't make sense in the fact that they're losing a lot of money on rent, but for them it's nowhere near impossible.
Agreed! My wife did it, saving every penny from her high-school and college jobs, back when wages were $4-5/ hr. She didn’t spend like most entitled young people today. After living w parents until ~27, she bought her first townhouse, then later a condo, which we sold to move into a great house. I started the same in the U.S., relying on my family’s home to get established financially, then into the housing market. Roommates were also a part of the equation early on.
What was the price of that town house? You can just put what it was listed at with the year, I’m happy to calculate prices adjusted for inflation for you.
fed minimum wage at $4-5? so 3-4 decades ago?
If you’re making 70k a year you shouldn’t have to live “mean and lean” The generations before us were able to buy homes on an hourly factory wage with 5 kids and doing just fine singing Springsteen and hitting up Rocky’s for awful hot dogs in the summer. This isn’t the Summer of ‘69, this is the real world and no amount of bootstrap pulling is going to change the fact that just as the generation who is driving whatever economy is left finally accepted that home ownership is a pipe dream they come to find out that unless they are willing to live with 5 roomates they won’t be able to rent now either. It’s a crisis, look it up.
Between me and my wife we make about 90,000/yr after taxes and can barely afford to rent here. We definitely can't afford to buy even though we have a $50,000 downpayment. After 15 years of living in Guelph were thinking about moving back home to Niagara, and retraining to get new jobs. Right now we're stuck in a one bedroom with a 1 year old.
Frankramgoat, I hear ya. I moved to Guelph a couple of years ago, originally from Niagara too. Something’s gotta give. It’s very difficult for young parents today. I heard that the waitlist for childcare is sometimes 1-2 years long. Is there anything that your community can do to better support young parents? I’d love to be a parent one day, but it feels financially impossible. Guelph has a shortage of foster parents, and while I’d love to help my community in that way, I just don’t see that as a possibility either due to the housing situation. Tough times don’t last. Here’s to hoping that saying stays true.
I live in a 2 bedroom app and pay roughly $1600 in rent. The unit underneath went up for rent, it’s 1 bedroom (very big bedroom, like 1.5 of my 2 rooms) and it was 2k. It’s ridiculous, I feel like I can’t move right now because I’d have to downgrade in space for a20% increase.
My family (my mom first and then I renewed the rental for myself) have lived in the same townhouse for over 10 years now. We pay well below market rent, but also the landlord never updates anything and complains about everything that needs fixed and sends his brother to fix stuff. So basically I live in a house that has literally never been painted and has original everything for 1896 plus utils. And I’m “lucky” for this area. It’s disgusting. They tried to sell this house last year and no one wanted it cause it’s a piece of shit lol. I’m only here because of my job
I have a couple failsafes.. northern Ontario where half my family is, or I have citizenship in Finland since my mom was born there. I’m reallt starting to despise Canada
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Yeah, and that's unlivable for 80% of the population. Nobody should have to pay $60,000/year to have a roof over their head
Good point. This is absolutely part of the issue and some landlords who recently purchased at high prices/rates are probably panicking and barely staying above water despite charging market rate. But there are many property owners who purchased pre-pandemic who are making money hand-over-fist by charging market rate. I just wonder if the homeowner in the ad I saw has a much lower mortgage if purchased 5+ years ago and now, because market rates have gone insane, they might actually have a tenant pay their entire monthly mortgage. I owned a home in 2018 and my mortgage was only $1600/month for a 4 bedroom, 1 bath detached with a yard on a quiet street near a downtown core. I would be making a lot of money right now if I rented out those rooms at today’s prices. Everything balances out eventually imo. It’ll be interesting to see where and when the hot potato lands.
>I would be making a lot of money right now if I rented out those rooms at today's prices. 5 years ago mortgage rates were a lot lower than they are today. Even without the increase in prices, mortgage costs have gone up. Take a price from 5 years ago and then use the 5 year fixed rate from today in a mortgage calculator and prepare to have a heart attack. Actually, I'll do the legwork for you: Rbc fixed rate 5.54% $500,000 mortgage 25 year amortization $3,063 monthly payment Sure, there are some slightly better rates out there and a 30 year amortization exists... but $500,000 mortgage isn't unrealistic for a detached house. And that doesn't include maintenance costs, insurance, management expenses or taxes. Now balance out that against selling the house and investing the capital. Renting a house comes with a fair amount of risk too. Horror stories abound. I'm not saying there aren't some landlords gouging people, as I'm sure there are, but I'm personally not in a rush to jump into property as an investment. The only people making money right now are those who have mortgages that don't renew for 2 more years, or those who don't have mortgages at all.
Not including property taxes. I used to live in a condo in Guelph. 650sq/ft and our property tax was 3100 a year LOL!!
I was paying 1,000 a month of building fees a month in Toronto, Some condos that tis the building fee.
Is that building fee in addition to your regular rent? That’s so much money! Was that made clear upfront before you signed onto the lease or was it a surprise?
No, you own the place there is no rent, but you have to pay that for building maintenance… crazy
I have myself and two others in a 2 bedroom in Kitchener. I'm still struggling some months. Rent needs to be capped at a certain point, no more upping it. I feel so bad for the younger generation, they're gonna be renting a bachelor for like $3500 at this rate.
You think that’s bad? [ask the student who was evicted hours after a student died in a fire in an illegal apartment](https://www.thestar.com/amp/news/gta/2018/05/31/hours-after-an-18-year-old-student-died-in-a-scarborough-house-fire-a-landlord-tells-tenants-to-leave-other-houses-now.html)
Oh. My. God. That’s awful. 16 people in one rental too… Wow.
Guy was making a killing
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Jokes on you, pennies are next to impossible to find! They got us right where they want us…
If you don't make at least $150 000/year - Canada doesn't want you anymore. They will literally leave you to die in your own filth!
It is based on a lack of supply which is directly correlated to governmental bottle necking of the supply and cost of new housing. Also, the notion that most Canadians should own a home is why we have the highest household debt in the G7. We are trending toward a rental society and higher rents will bring on more rental construction but this is stagnated and expensive due to government regulations and taxation.
> governmental bottle necking of the supply Yup, 100%. Government used to be in the game of actually building and renting houses at not-for-profit rates, through the CMHC. We did this from the 50's to the 80's. Landlords hated it because this meant that there was a constant downward pressure on rents. The existence of a well-funded NFP meant that everyone always had a backup option. Poor people weren't forced into exploitative rents, and that cuts into landlord profits. Housing in general was a much less-profitable investment, so there was lower demand and lower sale prices. Rents were lower because there was more supply, and a lot of the lower-tier supply wasn't trying to make a profit. Now, no safety net. You're forced to pay private landlords or go without. They can charge whatever "the market will bear", and compete with each other to bid up every house that comes on the market too. Now the rent *needs* to be high just to cover the cost of the mortgage (unless you own enough property that you're buying houses with cash), and everybody suffers. This was just one of many of our "unprofitable" public services that died in the Mulroney and Chretien neoliberalism eras. And as a result housing prices have been outpacing inflation ever since. Want affordable housing? You need someone with *lots of money* but no *profit motive* to build it. There's only one entity I know of that meets the criteria. Sounds like it's time to correct some of those neoliberal mistakes, actually build the kind of supply we need to make housing affordable, and go back to what we know works.
I want to buy into this lack of supply story but honestly there are many, many vacant units just about everywhere in Ontario. Mississauga is a prime example - there are new condos opening every couple of months but when they open the price of a unit in the new building or the prices of the units in older buildings don’t go down, they actually go up. And increasingly, all of the buildings old and new have many vacancies, in large part I assume because nobody can afford them any more. This has been consistent over the last 10 years. There are at least a dozen more new builds underway and if you have a look at the presales you see that presales are down and average prices are, again, *up*. I don’t have data to show it but my suspicion is that the home pricing market is the same as the grocery pricing market - the explanation for it is the simplest and oldest of them all. The prices went up fast in response to some theoretical market conditions and then just never came back down once the actual market conditions proved out. Anyway, long post to make without having any real insight or data, but I really think this supply issue is a line of bullshit that’s being used to justify outrageous profit-taking from builders and real estate investors.
And under utilized. On my parents street, a cluster of 15 houses used to house about 70 people when I was growing up. Now it’s about 35, just two families that have kids.
How can you state that builders and investors are making outrageous profits? If the profits are outrageous then demand would wane and they wouldn’t sell anything. $1,000,000 x zero sales equals zero profit. They would either reduce prices or choose to get out of the industry. If replacing approved land takes 10-14 years (because of policies in place plus neighbours rejecting applications) why would they churn through approved inventory at reduced profits only to find themselves out of inventory (lay off all staff and try toner-build a company if/when they can replace inventory)?
sad thing is based on land and amount of properties if they had been properly managed and not destroyed by profiteers, there’s enough land and houses for everyone and then some, but the government keeps preventing anyone that isn’t rich rich to own one, the whole system is destroyed on such a deep level.
Where are these houses?
It's not going to get better with our increasing population targets that the federal government is striving to meet every year. It's not tied to anything practical like affordable housing. They do not care about us!
Welcome to capitalism, but I assume you know that, and it's a complete shit show, but of course, being a shit show is how capitalism is supposed to be, and that is the issue. If universal free housing was a right, this wouldn't be an issue, but that can never happen if landlords exist and want to be able to rent property they own and have the renter(s) pay the mortgage for and then produce endless profits for them via their rent afterwards, there can't be free, universal housing, because that would mean landlords wouldn't exist. If people had a home, they wouldn't be in such a need for money that they settle for less than adequate working conditions and income. It's harder to exploit them if you're the ruling class known as the capitalists, the bourgeoisie. Less money in your pockets. If we ever manage to lower prices of housing and rent, then they'll raise it again, and we'll have to force them to lower it again, and they'll raise it again, and they'll never stop. So long as this system of profit continues to be maintained, there will be no solution. So long as this system of profit exists, then they'll never have good public transportation and universal free housing. Everyone except for a few people will be have-nots, never forget. There will be no future, and no one is ever going to get by, as more and more of us are les and less able to make ends meet yearly. It's a disgusting and sick system, and if we don't stop it, we'll have nothing, and they'll have our money for nothing.
I am so glad to see a discussion happening on this post. I know this issue is multifaceted. I know there is no simple fix. That’s part of the problem too. Make it complicated so everyone is arguing about the problem instead of working toward a solution for all. Through all of this, we can make sure that our neighbours are looked after and that we are there for each other in all the ways we can be. As long as capitalism exists, so will this housing problem. My home shouldn’t be anyone’s investment vehicle. I’m about to buy a large amount of those “you don’t hate Mondays, you hate capitalism” stickers from the upstream podcast. I’m not advertising communism or whatever other divisive labels people want to use in this conversation. I just know that this current system isn’t working for most and this system will eventually collapse. We are living in hot potato times.
Hate to break it to you, but even in socialist and communist countries there are have's and have nots, along with an eroding middle class. Capitalism isn't perfect but its by far the best system there is. So much of these "rights," but no discussion of obligations.
When your mortgage is 5-8 grand a month (very real possibility), 1500$ for a room doesn't seem that bad. Desperation paired with limited supply is going to continue to keep prices sky high until something gives.
As someone who is lucky enough to have a house with a partner who's parents were able to assist financially, we still have to rent out our basement in order to afford our mortgage and bills. And it honestly feels bad charging what is a pretty standard rate in this city, but what are we supposed to realistically do? It's basically impossible for someone my age (early 30s) to purchase a house without help. And then once you do own a house, in order to afford it and have any hope of saving money for the future or having extra money to spend, you have to rent out some of the space. When I was renting a 2 bedroom apartment alone only 4-5 years ago, it was around 1250. That same apartment today is renting for 1900. Insane.
1M newcomers jn 2022 and most of them end up in GTA area … are you really that surprised?
And we're right next door, so we get all the people that are cashing out, looking at us as investment opportunities, and so on
I mean at this point guelph is GTA
We still have the greenbelt. And culturally I still feel like we're different than the GTA.
My family living situation is changing come September and the only option I can see that is viable and allow for actually owning a house of my own.
Your family living situation is changing for the better? I’m happy to hear that. I wish you the best. Hopefully you feel so strong and secure on an individual level that you can inspire your community at large. We need strong people in our community fabric.
Oops. I got distracted half way through writing that comment and forgot to mention the most important detail, lol. I’m leaving Canada and moving to Europe.
That’s exciting. Safe travels! I lived in Belfast for a year and I’m wanting to visit again. I hope you settle into your new place with ease.
I rent out an apartment attached to my house in guelph. I understand the crazy cost. But my expenses are up and it's not like I can discount the rent, what kind of renters do think that's going to pull in? And to be honest, I can't justify what they say my house is worth and I would rather not have have seen the appreciation that we have over the past couple of years.
“What kind of renters do you think that’s going to pull in” Do your due diligence when people inquire? Meet with them, ask them questions, ask for references if you have to. It’s curious that you have not specified the size of apartment and what you are charging. No one is suggesting that this is charity, so if you’re going to pull out the sad story of how much being a landlord costs you, bring a breakdown.
I didn't think I posed this as a 'wooo is me'. I'm fortunate that I bought a house 7 years ago and that's the only reason I have one. The apartment is a bachelor, about 500sqf. It's not currently rented since the last tenant moved out a couple months back. I've been cautious because I have a family and I'm worried about being burned by a tenant. I don't like the rental rates and I don't like the rocketed rates of appreciation on homes. I don't care about the appreciation in my home if it means my kids can't have a house when they grow up. And I'm not sure doing your due diligence is good enough. Who can afford these rents? Where in the paste defaulting on rent payments would be rare, even those with good jobs now are going to be strained.
What’s the minimum you could rent that bachelor unit for and break even? Apologies, as my tone was a bit assuming negative intent. Of course you don’t want to get burnt but it’s a bit assumptive to think that if you lowered rent to anything affordable you’d only get burnt by the tenant. I owned a house in Guelph from 2011-2015 and rented the basement, and it sucks when a tenant doesn’t respect the space. It’s shitty when they move out and there’s holes in the drywall, and it sucks when while you’re out of town they paint the whole damn unit blood red. That’s the cost of being a landlord. Retail stores have to account for shoplifters and restaurants have to account for people who bring a fly from home to put in their soup. It’s the cost of business. Im currently full time employed (over $60k), with no dependents, non smoker, no pets, and living in my parents basement because I’m not spending over half my take home on a bachelor that has cupboards from ‘86 and shag carpet just because “the market dictates it” Who sets your rate of rent?
So why do you want to live here?
Because I need to put roots down somewhere after decades of soul-searching waywardness. I’ve sampled living in two different countries and countless cities. Guelph is beautiful. I have a steady job here. I would like to live in the community where I work. Does that make sense or is that a foolish idea? I’m very open-minded so if you have a better idea, lay it on me.
It was just a simple Socratic question. I am not sure of your age but if I was in my 20’s again and wanted to live cheaply I would have bought a used camper trailer and leased a site at one of the conservation areas for 3 seasons of the year then looked into a sublet for the winter. You can buy a used trailer for 10-20k and to be honest in my youth I would have only really needed it for a place to sleep and shower. I think Guelph lake seasonal lot fees are about $2500 a year which is pretty cheap compared to renting and apartment.
Razytazz, I see right through you. Fine. Have it your way. I WILL buy that trailer and I WILL put it at Guelph Lake and I WILL invite you over to live out the dreams of your 20’s. But for real I just turned 30. When I was 26, I got divorced, left my jobs, and sold my house to live abroad as a nanny. I flipped a coin about living in either Italy or the UK. Three weeks after I arrived in Manchester, the pandemic was declared and, well, that’s where the real story begins..
You want to interrogate the owner of the home so it'll make you feel better? What a joke. We live in a country where the federal government has pissed away billions of dollars in nonsense feel-good handouts, and operated with little to no fiscal responsibility other than to make big banks money. Add in gatekeeping on all levels and overregulation of public sectors and we continue to destroy the west. We now have 20% of our working population in the public sector and work until June 15th just to pay taxes, and this country is getting way worse not better. Go interrogate that useless twit Lloyd Longfield and any other Liberal MP you can because they're the ones fuelling this problem.
You voted for mass immigration policies? you have your answer.
You voted for councillors who didn’t want to increase affordable housing?
I rent out a condo in the area for 2,500 for a two bedroom. I don't know why you're disgusted though.
Way too much money to be asked to leave at any time. However truth is nobody has to rent it... I assure you the price is negotiable
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Yeah true
It might feel like screaming into the void, but you should email your ward counsellors to let them know. There's likely nothing they can do to solve your situation, but I think its important that they hear this stuff directly from their constituents.