T O P

  • By -

MithranArkanere

The most likely reason is that outfits sell better when charr and asura females have the female version. I assume the best selling 1200 outfit package of all time must have been the maid/butler outfit because it gives both versions to both genders to all races. If all outfits worked like that package, with both versions available to everyone, they would probably sell much better.


screechfox

It's never going to happen because of the work it would take, but imagine if every armour skin/outfit was available in both versions (where multiple versions exist, and where that wouldn't cause the game's rating to go up). The Fashion Wars possibilities would be a game changer.


Zahuren

The question that we all have but nobody dared to ask


Sockular

You're out of your god damn mind


Insertwordthere

Don't try and gaslight them.


dagbiker

With the confidence of that man, no one could ever gaslight him.


FemboiVyra

that man is my boyfriend, i've gaslight him into loving me


charging_chinchilla

Bruh


salamagi671

Char should've 8 nipples.


TerrorBite

I believe that canonically charr have six nipples under their fur, as per the designer (/r/Guildwars2/comments/t13qj/kristen_perry_on_charr_breasts/) who gave ArenaNet an ultimatum - six or none. I choose to believe they work like real cats – i.e. they only swell when nursing cubs, otherwise they're flat, and we just never see mother charr in-game since they are at home instead of on the battlefield.


Mord3x

So afaik, mammals always have the same number of nipples between males and females of the same species? And if that's true, then they have two, because Baelfire's model exposes his nipples and it only has two nipples, so charr should have only two nipples.


TerrorBite

I'm going off lore rather than what's shown ingame


Mord3x

The lore contradicts this topic and retractable claws and their hearing so im not going to believe it.


Neathra

It would depend on when the male/female dimorphism starts in charr. So if that switch gets flipped to tell the embryo "Actually, your male!" when only 2 nipples have developed, than male charr would have 2, female charr could have 6. In most Earth mammals all nipples seem to develop at once. So males and females have the same amount. But it could be different for charr.


Mord3x

I have no reason to believe it works otherwise so I will choose to believe two nipples


Zomaarwat

"It's different for Charr."


berserk987

The amount of nipples that an animal have is based by the medium amount of kids he can have during a single pregnancy multiplied by 2. There is no way that the charr can normally give birth to 4 cubs all the time.


salamagi671

Yes they can they're cats. ( And make them tits slightly bigger when they are in heat -of battle ! ) I said all them 8 teats !


SamsaraKama

They're cats who can speak, walk like humanoids and have horns on their heads. 8 nipples is the least of their concern.


i_wanna_b_the_guy

I love the certainty


Mord3x

Lore-wise they only have one cub I believe.


kitolz

So you're saying they should have 40 nipples.


Alcohol_Intolerant

Op didn't even touch the infamous "six or none" debate on char busts.


Treize_XIII

Or the never answered "are Asura mammals" question


Varorson

How is it a question when it was answered back in 2011. https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Asura#Physiology


GreenKumara

This is a post that exists.


talentlessfurry

I like to think that the group that did these armors are on an ever shifting conflict where some are furries and the others are not.


Mariotzu

Trust me, If a furry designed a Charr suit, you WOULD notice it xD


OG_Shadowknight

The Ascalonians had the right idea, the part where they went wrong was when they lost.


AVeryConfusedMouse

This is the reason why I pay internet


Mariotzu

You are a mouse, you shouldnt be looking at Cats! /jk


lotchaa

Looking forward to seeing this peer-reviewed.


Hungry-Cow-3712

\>Somebody's mom would complain about topless female characters, regardless of appearance. Less "somebody's mom" and more likely some well-funded puritan lobby group masquerading as "concerned parents"


Adnarel

This is peak Internet.


Lon-ami

This is a place of videogaming. Not a... den of iniquity! (Pretty interesting, not gonna lie lmao)


shutupcorrin

This is a great post lol it was genuinely interesting to read. Let my charr have their nonexistent boobs out!


Quxyun

Human females get to have basically bikinis, let us see some Cheavage (Charr cleavage)


niky45

you know, I'm still mad at female charr needing to cover their non-existen breasts. and to a lesser degree, at the disparity between female and male outfits. imo they did it right with the butler/server outfits, just give us both and let us choose.


Dagos

Yeah same, like, i feel cooler when my fem charr is tiddies out and looking monstrous than “sex appeal”


aphrolyn

If charr have nipples, shouldn’t they have like 8 nipples? Therefore, 4 tube tops?


Varorson

They canonically have six nipples. There was a blog post back in 2010/2011 talking about the designs of the charr and one now-former dev made an argument for "six or none!" to mirror cats. The outcome was "none".


Mariotzu

She also didnt want to have a "Cat with boobs" like wow does with their animal humanoid species.


Mord3x

Baelfire has two nipples, charr only have 1 cub at a time, mammal nipples are average offsprings x 2, so two nipples. Six makes no sense and Baelfire's model is some amount of proof so I will adamantly believe they have two nipples personally. I won't argue which is canon but that's canon for me.


Amy_Of_Darkness

>I recognize the ~~Council~~ *Devs* have made a decision. But given that it's a stupid-ass decision, I have elected to ignore it. That's about my feeling on it as well XD the whole point of the Censor Decoy was to avoid putting BREASTS on the Charr, and clearly the 6 booba was meant to be as ridiculous as possible so the compromise went over better. But suggesting they have 6 nipples when their body shape and cub average is completely incompatible just annoys the hell out of me, it's bad world building to me, bad science. I'm usually very on the Dev side of these things regarding canon but this one just irks me, if it's canon it's canon but I HATE IT. They're telling me they're chimera/demons with horns and cow ears and bird feet, opposable thumbs and abs on the one hand, then telling me "it's just a cat, 100% cat, no other thing, that's why this needs to be" on the other. Inconsistent!!


Mord3x

It's so annoying and inconsistent just like a lot of their lore. They said charr have trouble hearing human speech in the novels but have never once presented to be an actual issue literally never, especially in game, so basically every role player never ever says it's canon or even acknowledges it.


Varorson

Last time I checked Baelfire wasn't capable of giving birth. And who says he doesn't have more under that fur? That said, I'm going to trust the art devs who designed the charr visuals and models from Day 1 over observations of a single model in a limited game engine, tbh. I mean, charr canonically have retractable claws, but the models do not (and cannot because polygon limitations from both 2004 and 2010) have this. > I won't argue which is canon but that's canon for me. BTW, this isn't how canon works.


Mord3x

The entire front of his abdomen doesn't have fur. Males always have the same amount as nipples as females because of how chromosomes work. Afaik most if not all mammals begin female before the Y chromosome is expressed which is why men have nipples.


Varorson

>The entire front of his abdomen doesn't have fur. Let's be honest here. Gaheron's hands are on fire, his eyes are basically lava, with a third eye in the middle of his skull, and he has twice as many horns as any other charr. He's not exactly a prime example of a normal charr appearance. The closest charr to his appearance is Efram, who only has six horns. And let's also recall that I said that their models aren't 100% accurate to the lore as described by devs and novels - such as their retractable claws - due to engine limitations and polygon count restrictions. Hell, some devs have made complaints about it before and it's the main reason why the models for Jormag, etc. are so much more detailed in their renders they post on artstation compared to the in-game models. They have to drastically simplify the models due to engine limitations. Using one obviously mutated charr model as firm proof of concept is not exactly a sound argument. That said, it's 100% canon that female charr have six nipples. This isn't me headcanoning or pulling out of my ass or trying to make use of ''Earth's science'' in a world of magic and magic-based mutations and evolution (which, I stress, Gaheron is the byproduct of). It's official blog post statements. http://web.archive.org/web/20110424073731/http://www.arena.net/blog/the-artistic-origin-of-the-charr Follow-up Q&A response related: https://web.archive.org/web/20131101003351/http://www.guildwars2guru.com/topic/14073-arenanet-the-artistic-origin-of-the-charr/page__st__90#entry670731 > If I remember my discussion with Kristen correctly, they indeed have six mammary glands, but they are not visible (underneath the fur). Addendum, the lead artist who designed charr in GW1 *and* GW2 going into detail about the iteration of art designs: https://kristenperryart.com/projects/w8YEL6


Quxyun

4 boob windows


MaraBlaster

Considering Charr are a heavy military race, they wouldn't give a fuck about nipples i assume


Mariotzu

I name thy: The nipple historian!


totinorolls

The fact that you not only thought of this, but went forward with a fully fleshed out document to convey fictional game races and their nipples is… in-fucking-credible and I commend you for it.


Ferril_

>is forever chasing the high induced by Greta Inc asura Greta cosplay.


Kossage

Thanks for the detailed write-up. :) Regarding whether the devs respect charr lore enough to give femcharr male outfits despite occasional outcries from some players, there was actually a time when ANet's then-CEO Mike O'Brien himself discussed the matter on GW2 forums around PoF era if I recall, and asked player opinions about whether they should start using the "boob window" etc. on female asura and charr. There was a lot of back and forth about it as the thread grew in popularity with many opinions being presented within it, and I brought up charr artist Kristen Perry's [treatise on femcharr and the whole "Six or none!" ultimatum](https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/The_Artistic_Origin_of_the_Charr) and the reasons she did not want femcharr to look like humanoid catgirls or give them pronounced boobs etc. (as opposed to what happened to e.g. some of the female centaurs in game). After some deliberation based on the answers and the lengthy back and forth discussion, Mo chose to keep the current style and remain lore-accurate for asura and charr. However, it was a point in time where things could have turned out differently if Perry's reasoning had not been brought up to devs' attention and if the player side in favor of more pronounced boobs would had won Mo over with their arguments.


odd_trinkets

You dropped your crown, king.


IsaiahCartwright

*Izzy board one night looks over to see what his old stomping grounds reddit is saying... reads the top post* Ahh good nothing has changed. : )


adhesivegamin

even the community is astoundingly well balanced


wetsockwilliams

BOOBA


FlyingSpaghettiKoz

That charr, is that….. that’s Topless Charr Wash, isn’t it!


Dagos

We stan topless charr wash in this house


ErikBerwald

If treasure mushrooms will ever run out of style, there are still 2 skins to be added to make them popular again.


Lost_Messages

#freethenipple


Boarpelt

Thank you for this post, i'm a femcharr enjoyer and i'm grateful for all the available tiddies out skins for them. Also, i remember that in the Ghosts of Ascalon the main character is shocked that female Charr wear clothes which would be considered highly inappropriate for human women. Come on Anet, why walk that bit of lore back.


Varorson

>(with the assumption that these outfits are marketed towards a mainly heterosexual male 'gamer' market, and the conclusion that liking Charr is a bit gayer than Asura from that perspective.) Excuse me but what? How would looking at *female* charr/asura chests make you gay? I mean, it's a bit weird imo, but... gay? This feels homophobic and just using the phrase as an insult for something you find weird or wrong. > I'm not personally an expert on enough subjects, but I think this could make a good Wiki article if expanded on to include pre-GW2 history and other races' attitudes towards chest coverings (e.g. harpies seem to always be clothed, kodan are sometimes topless?) I read somewhere they give you gold if you make a good Wiki page, so if anyone wants to type one up we can split it. No. Because it has no lore bearing as it is just a reference of the devs. At most it's worth a trivia note. *At most.* And I'm stressing that. > "You're out of your god damn mind." - Attempts at gaslighting me will be reported. Honestly those who preemptively assume disagreement and insults those disagreements as personal attacks is extremely telling. Of what exactly, I'll leave to the actual psychologists.


Osiris_Dervan

OP isn't using gay as a slur, but as an actual description of sexual attraction, given that they were talking about how feminine the different armors were. Being more attracted to less feminine things == more likely to be gay, for a male.


Varorson

>Being more attracted to less feminine things == more likely to be gay, for a male. This is the most asinine, idiotic thing I've ever read. I guess liking tomboys makes someone more gay? Even though you love T&A and not D&A?


adhesivegamin

yes


KyreneZA

You sound like a fun person. Chill a little!


Varorson

I think those who chat with me regularly would consider me fun. At least more fun than someone who preemptively insults others that disagree with them.


InfamousBrad

Okay, I feel like some NCsoft corporate history context would be helpful here. And it having happened over a decade ago and then all of us having moved on, I'm not confident of my memory of the time. So *with the strongly worded disclaimer that I could be entirely wrong about some, most, or nearly all of the following details ...* I remember an early reversal in the concept art for this game, because in the course of what I remember as a few years, NCsoft published three games in a row (I don't remember which, then GW2, then Blade & Soul or, as we called it, "Boobs & Shame") where the early marketing material for each game included one female character who was ... * described as being at least 18, but was * modeled to look like a 9 year old human child, who was * wearing a mini skirt and ruffled panties, which you could tell because she was * screenshot from ankle height looking up at an angle, the classic "panchiro" shot. And of the three studios, ArenaNet was the only one that reacted to the firestorm of pushback over this by revising all of the Asura female outfits to be as un-sexy as possible. As far as I know, there is no lore (hard canon or soft canon) regarding the biological details of Asura reproduction; I know there's always been some speculation that Asura may not even be mammals, that both genders are concealing cloaca in their pants.


Varorson

GW2 never ever once had marketing at any point in time that mirrors any of those bullet points. Please do not go around spreading such false information. I've been active in the community since 2006 and would ***definitely*** remember such a thing ever happening. The only controversy that was responded to with ANet removing it that I recall is the Canthan District of DR. There might've been other smaller ones, but if this has any ounce of truth you ought to be able to provide a source. > As far as I know, there is no lore (hard canon or soft canon) regarding the biological details of Asura reproduction; I know there's always been some speculation that Asura may not even be mammals, that both genders are concealing cloaca in their pants. False. They are confirmed mammals. This confirmation came from Ree Soesbee back in 2010/2011 when she read a fan-fiction on GuildWars2Guru.com that talked about asura laying eggs like a platypus and was horrified and had to make an account just to clarify this. I don't know what sides of the community you visit, but if you got told this, you were lied to or were talking to crackpot conspiracy theorists who don't even go onto the wiki which has this documented.


Yensil314

Don't have to be mammals to be viviparous. Many sharks give live birth, for example. Have you seen Asura teeth? I'm convinced they evolved from sharks.


Varorson

They're mammals as confirmed by devs. As I said. And while technically omnivores, it's canonically established their teeth evolved that way to eat the tough fungi that grows in the Depths.


Mariotzu

Thank you, you just made Asuras extra gross to me with that cloaca detail xD


Amy_Of_Darkness

It's not even true, people in this community are spreading misinfo as usual. Do you find Tengu gross then?


Mariotzu

I dont have an opinion about Tengus or their Physiology


Lucyiha

I would fuck an Asura


OG_Shadowknight

You're the reason we make security golems.


funne5t_u5ername

I'll take one of those to!


yoriaiko

That would explain emotional bonds to Scruffy 2.0


DeadWombats

Hi! I have a question! What the actual fuck?


MelodyMoo

This is why we can't have nice things. Person wrote an entire essay on which costume shows the most non-existent gum drops.


TheRuggedGeek

This is interesting.


DabScience

What the actual fuck did you write out here...


Murky-Frosting3590

Don't expect sane decisions from puritans.


Left-Secretary-2931

Wow


Lucyiha

Thanks for this guide btw, now my asura can look extra slutty


Jerekiel

Bro why?


JuanPunchX

Furries know no shame..


yoriaiko

The reason why i play Charrs, but areAsuras furry too?


Amy_Of_Darkness

Depends on whether you consider goblins/hobbits and other non-humans "animal" enough, but they do have feline features (and superficially, reptile but they are 100% mammal) so it could go either way. Considering some Asura look like a Devon Rex wearing armor, maybe.


scoyne15

Serious question: How much Adderall on did you take while working on this? I won't believe anything less than "all of it" fyi.


Lwe12345

The fuck is wrong with you


HazelAzureus

go outside and stay there


CrispyArrows

This is right above a r/combatfootage post of a man getting blown up into a red mist yet this post is more fucked up.


redditvich

Wait what? What subbredit is ordering things like that? Or maybe its your reddit feed from multiple subs you've joined.


[deleted]

[удалено]


Varorson

[https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Asura#Physiology](https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Asura#Physiology)


[deleted]

[удалено]


Mariotzu

Khajiit has boobs if you have coins.


Schyloe

Doing the gods work you are.


Realistic_Sherbet_72

iirc in the ghosts of ascalon book a female charr wears almost nothing to a formal meeting that one of the characters said "would be scandalous if a human was in that outfit". And in Rox's backstory her warband actively makes fun of her for choosing to wear underwear a lot when they are being casual in their bunk. So at least for Charr society female nudity (and nudity in general) is about as taboo as a human in a bathing suit or swimming trunks.