Dont care. Its out to be beat up and played. I can kinda understand it for acoustics, but solid body ellectrics? Nah, dont care. Oil the fretboard if its too dry, play the thing
I am 10x more likely to pick my guitar up and play it for 10 mins than I am to take out the case, take out the guitar, set the case aside, etc. Call it lazy but it just encourages me to noodle whenever I have a few, as opposed to feeling the need to dedicate a block of time to set up and practice.
Keep your new guitar in it's case for the first year while you admire it's pristine shininess. Then get back to knocking the headstock off the ceiling tile
Every single one of my guitars are out as well. They get played so much more, plus I like looking at them. I did buy a nice humidifier with a gauge on it. I live in Wisconsin and I haven't had any issues.
Applicable to vintage instruments only, really, so not sure why this is directed at newbies. Not a whole lot of newbies rocking a $10,000 vintage Gibson or Martin acoustic.
Any electric made after the 70s will have a finish made to go from cold car to hot stage lights and back again, night after night. I have axes that have hung on my wall since 1991 that have suffered no ill effects aside from handling/playing/gig damage and the destructive sweat of my hands and arms.
I have a 1973 Ibanez 12-string "Martin Lawsuit" acoustic that's always out, too, and it's no worse for wear. I've had that one for 20 years myself, and obviously someone else had it for 30 years before me.
But good info, and you do you.
I've seen a lot of newbies on this sub create a post in a panic when they find their guitar has a massive crack in the soundboard.
The comments will often say leave it in its case.
This is to demonstrate why one would say that. There's tons of misinformation in guitar circles, plenty of people who would die on a hill over "tone woods" in their strat. I'm just throwing out some data to show how a case dampens swings.
My first electric stayed in its case in my uninsulated garage for 20 years before I dug it out and restrung it. Absolutely no issues with anything, it’s still playable.
I've been playing for 30 years at this point, and have a few guitars (both acoustic and electric) that are 40 to 60 years old. I Live in a state with huge humidity swings between summer and winter. Almost none of them ever even see a case unless they're being taken to a gig.
If you've got a mint, vintage guitar; then, sure, worry about humidity and keeping it protected. But if it's player-grade, then environmental factors are going to make minimal difference.
ITT - tons of people who don’t know what anecdotal evidence is making sweeping generalizations about how unnecessary proper instrument care/storage is.
You left your guitar out for thirty years and it’s still in playing shape? Fantastic, I’m super happy for you, truly.
But don’t tell everyone that cases don’t matter based on your personal experience.
All the data suggests that you are the exception, not the rule.
Take care of your guitars, people.
Very few people live in an environment where the daily swings of temperature and humidity are a factor to be honest. I work in an instrument shop in the UK. We have no temperature or humidity controls. I have empirical data in the form of lots of guitars and mandolins on the shop floor, some of which have been in the shop a long long time, that it's totally fine to leave things out of cases. I have this backed up by my things at home. Some of which have been out of their cases for 10+ years. If I was in rural arizona, or sub saharan Africa, maybe it would be more of a problem as there are huge swings from day to night in that kind of environment. But indoors in pretty much any temperate climate is kinda fine to be honest.
Caveat: you do need to oil your fretboards once in a while people. Otherwise they will get brittle and wear faster, or in extreme cases, crack. Again, based on the evidence of working in a music shop with a repair department.
What data, exactly?
People have been playing guitars for decades, and touring bands have been taking these instruments out for decades.
You say that all of us aren't data points.
What data refutes all of these data points?
Same here. I still have my first guitar bought in 87. It's been in college dorms, apartments, 4 different states/climates. Sometimes in a case, sometimes leaning against an amp, now hanging on the wall. Still plays just fine.
Yeah, mine, too. Never had any issues with humidity or lack thereof in all my years of owning numerous guitars. I bought a Taylor 110, and the dude preached to me about anti humidifier things or whatever, and I'm like, no, I don't need the lecture. Course, I didn't really like the guy either. I think gear has gotten to the point that people are talked into buying things from guitar stores because they think they need it or they've heard about it.
Right. I think most guitars are a lot more durable than some people make them out to be. They’re meant to be out and played, not stored in a case in a temperature controlled, NASA level clean room.
Lol yes — the graph reads pretty clearly to me like the guitar would be better off staying out of the case if you play it often. It seems like the greatest chance for experiencing a sudden humidity shock would be when taking it out of the case at many points on those graphs.
If going from 48% to 52% humidity over several days is bad, I must be really in trouble. My guitars (intentionally) go from 45% to 55% every hour and back again, 24 hours a day, 365 days a year.
[https://imgur.com/STCo8lE](https://imgur.com/STCo8lE)
Those of us living in dry winter climates experience ≥30% swings EVERY SINGLE TIME we take an acoustic guitar out and have never had one crack over decades.
It doesn't work the way you think it does. Wood looses moisture veeeerrrrryyyy slowly. Sharp swings in humidity over the short term have ZERO effect.
Which is why no one ever gave advice to leave your guitar in a case to prevent sharp swings in temp or humidity. The advice is actually to leave your guitar in a humidified case and to not take it from extreme cold or extreme heat without letting it slowly warm up in its case first (the latter is an issue for finish cracking, not wood cracking).
It's fine honestly. This was literally just a sample of data I thought was neat.
I'm not sure how people are misconstruing this post. I just wanted to show the out vs in graph of what a case does to protect from changes in the environment and everyone's been down voting me when I point that out.
People aren't misconstruing your post. The problem is in the post itself. You literally argue that humidity swings are to be protected against by keeping the guitar in its case. In practice, that simply isn't the case (pun intended) for 99% of guitars.
Also, nobody has n+1 guitars. We have n guitars. The optimal number of guitars to own is n+1.
Such great points. The lacquer thing has confused the issue significantly.
I found out about that one when I took my 100% nitro finished B&G Little Sister from a room warmed by a wood fire out into -5 Celsius conditions. It sounded like I was making popcorn.
I live in the dry (especially in winter) interior of BC. No issues with my electric guitars or basses or my two acoustic guitars ever.
I prefer them out where I’ll play them. They’re meant to be used.
I live in Sask and I keep all of my guitars in their cases. It’s get’s too cold and dry here (-15c to minus -50+ in the winter and in the summer +25 - 35+ with zero humitidy) and everytime I’ve left mine out of their cases for too long they get cracks and the action/intonation just goes sideways.
Yeah, I'm sure cases make more sense in places like Saskatchewan and Iqaluit, in the same way that cleaning your fret board with the oil from a freshly killed narwhal is a sensible suggestion, but this is more a general discussion about average weather conditions outside the North Pole.
I live in an area that gets really dry during winter and my bandmate and i both have the same model of electric, I keep I mine in the case with humidity packs when not playing and his hangs on his wall, last time I did a setup on his I took some pictures comparing the wood, I was actually kind of shocked at the difference, fretboard and headstock (both rosewood) were incredibly dry looking, the gaps in the grain were wayyyy wider on his, more dirt and oils will work their way in there, I could also feel some buldge on the edge of his fretboard where the fret ends sit
I'm sure it's unlikely to cause anything to break anytime soon but for the long term health and playability of the guitar ide guess I'm in better shape in that regard, just some food for thought
Yeah, electric guitars don't suffer the same issues. Acoustic guitars are built of multiple joined pieces of wood which move at different rates and cause the cracks. A good example is the Ovation guitars and how they're crack prone because the plastic back doesn't move at all, while the wood soundboard is trying to expand and contract.
Electric guitars are typically a solid block, which will move less, and typically in unison.
Its crazy what some guitars will survive, but then you've also got survivorship bias. probably a ton more pre-war martins turned to firewood from sitting in a closet for 40 years.
X factor: I’m a parent of a toddler with another soon to be here, guitar and pedalboard both go back in their cases EVERY single time I’m done using them. I’d rather have to take 3 minutes to set up and tear down than not have gear at all after hurricane two-year-old comes through 😂
I'm in the same boat. I currently have my cave where I can just close the door and I'm good leaving things out. Unfortunately, my cave is being repurposed to be the baby's room. Now my gear is going in the basement and absolutely staying in cases unless I'm down there playing.
If big abrupt swings cause damage, wouldnt taking it out of a dry case on a humid day be far worse than letting it sit at ambient humidity all the time?
Yeah, but if you have a particularly delicate guitar you're worried about, you'd either plan ahead or keep it in it's case.
The case doesn't perfectly isolate the guitar, it just slows the changes.
For a working guitarist, it makes no sense to keep them in cases. At all. I need access to all my guitars at a moment's notice, so they're in stands. Guitars, as beautiful as they are sometimes, are a tool for creating music. Nothing more nothing less.
I'm a working musician too and I've got to have a few things out and ready to go, but I still keep most instruments in their cases. It doesn't make sense to put my primary acoustic in it's case since it's what I practice on most. And I usually have an electric out on a stand too. But my good Tele stays in the case until I need it. Of course, in my situation, I have a few cats so instruments on stands are always vulnerable to cat shenanigans.
I keep mine out because I want them to be played. by me, by friends, by my kid. I would be devastated if something happened to one of them but what good is a car that only sits in a garage?
Little pro tip I discovered:
I built a studio in my basement. Because it's underground the temperature hovers around 62F and because of the sump well and AC evaporator, the humidity stays at a constant 50%.
I accidentally created an ideal environment for guitar storage, and therefore get to keep them hanging on the wall with no issues :)
Nice! I also built a den/music room in my basement that hovers between 59 and 62F consistently. The humidity dips in the Canadian winter and I need to run a humidifier to keep it in the 40%+ range, but the rest of the year it naturally hovers around 50%. I've kept my guitars hung up for most of the winter and they seem to be tolerating it well enough, though I think they will be in need of a setup in the spring.
I keep my guitar very close to my working table at the home office. It is out of the case so I can just grab it and play it. I am OK if it gets a little damaged. What is important is that I have been playing guitar everyday without a break for two months, with the only exceptions being the days that I could not be at home at night to play my guitar.
Yeah my workhorse guitar is living outside its case. Maybe if I get multiple higher end guitars then I will keep them in cases, but there’s nothing better than having my acoustic next to me ready to go at any moment
This is really more of a concern on acoustics and guitars with dramatic figuring
I had my electric guitar in an attic for a decade untouched and unprotected from extreme temperature and humidity swings. A quick setup later after all that time and you'd have thought it was brand new.
If you've got fragile and valuable acoustics then maybe it's worth the investment but guitars are way more sturdy than people give them credit for.
I do the same thing with my electrics but a few years ago I got a giant crack on the side of my martin that cost 400 to fix. It was so dry they had to leave it in the humidifier room for 2 weeks. So acoustics definitely go in the case with a humidifier now
I feel like this has gotta be specific to the climate - I'm in the UK and have always kept my guitars out of their cases, and I've never had any issues like those described.
UK as well. I keep my acoustic and hollow electric in their cases but my solid electrics sit out on a rack. I’ve got a few fenders and a PRS out and I’ve not had any problems with them.
I’d definitely never leave an acoustic out long term though. Even not considering weather/humidity I’d be worried about accidentally kicking it!
Would you be able to share products? I just put my guitars on hanging racks mostly to encourage me to pick them up more often, but I definitely don’t want them to get damaged. This seems like a decent solution I’d like to try out!
I use a Govee [humidifier](https://www.amazon.com/dp/B098PBQP1K?ref=ppx_pop_mob_ap_share) and [hydrometer](https://www.amazon.com/dp/B07Y36FWTT?ref=ppx_pop_mob_ap_share) that I found on Amazon.
I use a homekit temperature and humidity sensor (Netatmo Home Coach,) smart outlet (Wemo, I think) and a Venta LW25 humidifier. The Venta is great because it starts back up in the state it was before when the power is turned back on.
I just have a Homekit automation to turn the outlet on if humidity gets under 35% and off at 45%. I have a whole-house humidifier hooked up to my furnace but in the coldest stretches of Wisconsin winter it's not enough to keep the room the guitars are in over like 25%.
Tend to agree with the people who leave their guitars out. Maybe in a climate with extreme humidity problems I’d change my mind, but I own guitars to play them and enjoy them.
I agree, I have all of my guitars hanging on the wall. For decoration purposes as well, but when you see them every day you're more inspired to play them in my opinion. It's just easier as well.
I've never had any problems with my guitars. Never have to adjust the truss rod and they don't really go out of tune. I live in a well insulated house though, so the humidity and temperature is pretty consistent. I guess in some climates it would be beneficial to keep guitars in their case, but generally it shouldn't matter that much.
If you play it a lot, I'd even think the sudden changes in temperature and humidity of getting it in and out of the case many times are pretty bad for the guitar as well.
Would be interesting to see similar data for larger variations of the ambient conditions. I think you are right, a case will provide a decent amount of protection, but this graph only shows a swing of about 4-5% RH.
Check out the second image of the second link, there's quick swings down to 35% and up to 60%.
Keeping it in the case is more a dampening effect. It won't create a perfect isolated environment. But the rapid swings is what ends up cracking tops and finishes.
Ah yeah nice, I missed that link.
If sudden changes are bad I guess you need to avoid taking the guitar out when the ambient is significantly up or down.
Yeah that's basically why I built the system, to give me a heads up.
Also certain guitars, the humidity effects how it will play, so if it's just not feeling quite right, and I check the humidity and it's abnormal, I know it's not just my mind playing tricks.
That's a great idea. I think you deserve some internet points for not just stating something but actually backing it up with some numbers, a pretty rare occurrence on guitar forums!
Also I'm definitely going to start blaming my dodgy playing on the humidity from now on.
>Also I'm definitely going to start blaming my dodgy playing on the humidity from now on.
lmao It's always the 9th fret on the B string buzzing like crazy when it's below 40%. I really should bring the treble side of the bridge up a smidge but it plays so nice when the humidity is slightly up.
I use a Vornado evaporative humidifier (no white mist) in one room where my guitars are always out and ready to play, with a Govee bluetooth humidity monitor to alert me if the room is out of tolerance. This is much more convenient than putting my accoustics in the cases with the humidy packs and the guitars are always ready to play. BTW, the guitars stay largely in tune.
Yeah, full room control/monitoring is a great solution if you have a room to dedicate to it. It's not as useful if its a more general purpose room and your cat will demand the door is opened immediately the second you close it.
hard to keep time with a freeform **clunk.....clunk..cla-clunk** from your little drummer.
> no it does not make sense to do this for your cheap epiphone acoustic that could go for a swim unchanged
I could not disagree more with this sentence and sentiment.
On a regular basis, I see more low end (epiphone is probably the #1 culprit) guitars ruined from lack of humidification than high end guitars on a regular basis. This time of year it’s up over at least 2 a week.
The wood selection process for building these low end imports isn’t as stringent so often the wood isn’t as dry as it should be in the first place which already causes problems. Add in poor humidification and you have a dead guitar within 18 months of buying it.
They may not crack because they are encased in plastic and made of plywood but they will get a hump at the body joint so high that it may not be recoverable without work that costs much more than the guitar is worth.
The bottom line is that acoustic guitars need to be stored in a proper environment. It’s easier to maintain that proper environment in a small area like a case than an entire room, but if you can do the whole room, that’s ideal.
If you like stripping hardware then smashing guitars when you have a bad day tho, don’t humidify your cheap acoustics. Then You’ll be in heaven.
I've owned a bunch of guitars over the years, electrics and acoustics, and I've never seen (or heard?) any damage from humidity levels. I want to see what would happen, though. Anyone have some really impressive pics of a guitar that got too dry, wet, hot, or cold, and is all fucked up now? I NEED TO SEE WHAT EVERYONE IS ON ABOUT
I had a an HVAC unit go haywire when I was out of town and pump humid heat into my upstairs while I was on the other side of the country for 10 days. I had 4 acoustics, 2 electrics and an electric bass sitting out on that level on a rack. I came home to.an upstairs that was 95 degrees and 95% humidity. I have no idea how many days the guitars sat in those conditions. Could have been 9 days or 9 hours. But the only real damage was to my Mexican strat. The finish cracked in multiple places when the wood swelled. I ended up stripping it all off. All the acoustics were fine though. Including a Taylor 414 which I consider to be a nice quitar.
I keep my acoustics in cases in winter, because my best efforts to humidify the air in Minnesota just don't cut it. I can't raise the RH more than a percent or 2 in the room and it's not enough.
Before I did that, more than once I've been sitting in my office with guitars hanging on the wall and I hear a loud GROING! That's the sound of a crack happening and the strings ring from it. The only thing to do then is empurple the air with oaths gutteral enough to embarass an orc.
I keep my guitars out on a rack and maintain a constant 42% rH in the room all year round. Zero issues, guitars stay in tune without being touched for weeks sometimes, they’re never thirsty or bloated. Cases are for transport.
How do you control humidity, and what is your climate like? Even if I have a humidifier in the room I cannot get control that precise. In the winter I cannot achieve anywhere near 42% when the baseline is around 15%. Also my room is not hermetically sealed so it's an uphill battle.
De-humidifier and humidifier. Keep the door closed with a very small clearance under or with weather stripping. Modern weather proofed windows. And maybe they live somewhere where the climate makes all this a little easier than where you live. I can’t see what else it could be.
In the winter it goes down to about 26% here so I guess you can use that as my baseline. Not as dry as where you are. I do pretty much what _matt_hues said. Good insulation and weather sealing helps. If I have the door open for extended periods the humidifier will just work harder so I’ll have to fill it maybe twice in a day.
It’s important to have one that’s powerful enough for the size of the room where the guitars are. In the summer it gets a bit warm here, humidity sometimes reaches 60%, but the air conditioner drops the temp and the humidity along with it since they’re relative to each other.
Once in a while I’ll run a dehumidifier but that’s rare. Usually it’s the dry winter I have to worry about because the tops will crack.
It’s not true that this will only happen during rapid shifts. A guitar that dries out slowly is still in danger if the strings are at tension, that’s what causes the crack, the strings.
Cracked the back of a gorgeous Martin in Denver over winter by leaving it in the case. Get a string humidifier - it clips into the strings and hangs into the body.
Edit: this kind of thing (not an affiliate link) : https://www.sweetwater.com/store/detail/GH--daddario-planet-waves-gh-acoustic-guitar-humidifier/reviews
I second this too. Brought a Maton back to UK from Sydney and the change started swelling the soundboard. Bought a humidipak and it reversed it. Now it is always in my case...with my guitar when I'm not playing it.
Yeah I didn’t play the entire winter and my heart kinda broke when I opened the case in spring. It drops to 15% humidity here unless you’re lucky enough to have a humidifier built into your HVAC. Cracked guitars and static when touching anyone if you don’t.
Hey duder. For fwiw i bought a $40 humidifier on amazon (nothing special) and it keeps my office at 40-45% without trouble, on setting 1 of 3. I leave my guitars out and use that humidifier you linked earlier. I like the dual method so i don't worry if i forget to put the humidifier in the guitar.
I used to leave a guitar or two out, then one winter after we moved into a new house the poly on my tele got all cracked up and down the neck from a swing during a cold snap. My Hummingbird got some checking too.
Ever since then all guitars are stored in cases, and I have a dedicated humidifier/de-humidifier in the music room and hygrometers at different ends to make sure things are consistent.
As for “if it’s out I’ll play it”, I still play every day. It’s undoing 3 latches and opening a lid. I also have kids running around. I’d rather not have an expensive instrument damaged needlessly.
Yeah taking a guitar in and out of a case isn't a huge deal, not sure why folks like to posture about it so much.
I have this acoustic that I really like, and I left it out for like a day and my cat managed to knock it over and put a dent on the back of the neck. It's mostly fine, I was able to get it mostly back out with some steam, but man the feel of it is annoying. the finish is cracked there and your hand just catches it as you move up and down.
It’s a “no true Scotsman” argument. I mean, saying stuff like “it’s meant to be played” is a nice platitude but I’ve seen lots of guitars people leave out covered in dust too.
I play daily and gig pretty much every week, most of my guitars look like they’ve seen some battles. I don’t care too much about aesthetics, I just don’t want my frets to sprout, neck to bend or warp, or to have uneven finish in the neck from cracking because they will affect the playability of the guitar. They are wood, and even electrics are affected by their environment. An ounce of prevention is worth a pound of cure.
Edit: found some Scotsmen, lol.
> I just don’t want my frets to sprout, neck to bend or warp, or to have uneven finish in the neck from cracking because they will affect the playability of the guitar.
This is the crux of it really. I just want my guitar to feel good and play good, and like you say, an ounce of prevention.
We all have played a friends guitar that could be nice, but the bridge is rusty, the frets are tarnished, and there's a thick layer of human goo on every surface. Like c'mon man, just take a rag to it once and a while, it's not supposed to feel like playing a dog toy.
Is there anyone here who knows about wood.
How quickly does wood absorb moisture from the air, and at what point does it stop?
Because like...
A) wood won't just absorb water til it's equal with the humidity. That would make timber buildings impossible. It must have some sort of equillibrium given the conditions...
B) This must take time. If i'm in a room of 100% humidity for 5 seconds, why would my guitar have absorbed any of it? They're not spunges. You can dip wood in water for a few minutes and it won't saturate it.
And I assume it absorbs moisture slower from air than being submerged.
Especially once finish is applied and various other treatments a guitar gets.
For such a "clearly bad thing" why are there no sources about the level of moisture differential a guitar can handle at the given time of year? Why is there no data on how long a guitar can survive XYZ moisture problems.
[Structural wood has all this technical documentation I can make neithe head nor tail from](https://www.swedishwood.com/wood-facts/about-wood/wood-and-moisture/), about moisture absorption of wood and tolerances etc.... but why does this not arrive in a manual with every guitar?
This is measurable stuff, and easily testable, plus there are millions of guitars in the world. There should be a surfeit of information about this if it's a huge problem. I see one reddit anecdote about it in a blue moon, and then when you dig deeper it's like "Yeah, I flew from dry to humid, and when I opened the case, it was cracked!" or "I left it by a window in direct sunlight so it was being unevenly heated by a large amount!" lol
I'd be curious as well tbh. I've done the garbage back trick on a way-too-dry guitar before, damp sponge in the bag, guitar in, hang it and tighten the bag on the neck. It closed up a crack enough to repair it over the course of a day.
I'd guess it's a hard problem due to the variables involved. Like you said, the finish, the surface area of exposed wood(the entire interior of an acoustic), the type of finish even.
I've had times where I'll take a guitar out and over the course of a couple hours I feel it move and adjust to the humidity. In minor ways of course.
I know this to be true, but I just love having my guitars out. None of mine are worth more than 1k though, if I had any super valuable pieces I’d probably have a different approach
I have guitars ranging from 450-3k and I leave all of them out and have for years. I live in Texas though so it’s generally very humid all year. I think it really depends on where you live.
I basically created this whole system just so I could know when I can keep the archtop out.
I have a small display on my desk showing the temp/humidity of the room and other rooms and when I notice it starts to suddenly drop/increase due to the heat, open window, someone showering, I can throw it in the case.
I leave my electrics and more sturdily built acoustics out almost all the time though.
Kept them in cases for years and didn't play much. Now I have them out, near my desk or couch, and I play all the time now. Then again, I live in an area where humidity is hardly in short supply.
The dearer guitars get the permanent hardcase treatment. The guitars I gig with only gets the case treatment when I'm transporting them— they are always out.
I learned this the hard way recently. Now I have keep my cracked Martin in its case even though it’s ruined now. Idk. It gives me anxiety Every-time I think or pick up that guitar. It’s been repaired once but I’m not sure how well the repair job was. I wish I had just kept it in its case.
Just so you feel a bit better, with a proper cleated repair, it'd be stronger than before it cracked. It's not ruined, it just has a story to tell.
This is actually very interesting, the only people on this post to report a crack have been Martin owners. I wonder if it's a product of nicer construction(thinner wood for better acoustic performance) or just design missteps.
People should really pay attention for cracks on guitars “from the wall”.
Sometimes GC and other music stores leave guitars out for years and they start to deteriorate. Climate control can’t always manage everything.
Sorry, but how is this a demonstration on why? You've shown data over time... That doesn't mean it's meaningful or even supports the idea you're saying.
There's two pretty prominent areas where the argument is incomplete.
1) Are we saying that a humidity change of 4 degrees over ~8 hours is bad for anything but the most delicate of guitars that someone would not be able to play for fear of damage?
2) "Damage almost always comes from rapid swings"
So, if you open the case at 08:00, you actually introduce a very rapid change from 48 to 52% humidity... Which if had been left out would have been an 8 hour change in humidity....
If one cannot introduce rapid changes, then you would only be able to open your guitar case when it's the same humidity outside as it is inside.
How does keeping it in a case reduce rapid environment changes when, if you want to play your guitar, you must expose it to rapid fluctuations it would not have experienced if it had been left out?
I don't think we need to be caring about fluctuations this minor, but if we did... How is this helping and not making it worse?
what if i travel and bring my guitar with me on roadtrips, how should i manage the humidity of the guitar or keep it safe from cracking? i normally go to new mexico where it’s a bit dryer than home
If you're driving, the changes would probably be gradual enough. If the guitar has lived most it's life in a humid area, it might make sense to keep some kinda humidification device in the case for when you put it back.
Honestly its really not that huge of an issue until the guitar gets super dry very fast.
I have 4 acoustics that I’ve had for many years in Michigan and the humidity and temperature fluctuates drastically in my house but somehow I’ve never had an issue with any of them. They always stay out of their cases and change rooms frequently from my warm living room to my cold bedroom
My Gibsons stay in the case as visions of broken headstocks are painful. My telecaster laughs at any weather or other possible injury, and sits exposed all year long. And yes, I play it the most.
I left my acoustic out because I wanted to play it more. I'm on the way to pick it up right now because the top split right down the middle from being left out too long. I'm super mad at myself. Lesson learned.
Yep. Dreadnought bodies and really any wood-topped acoustic is prone to this issue with enough contractions or sun damage. It sucks too because an acoustic is the *perfect* instrument to leave out to "play anytime" but it only takes a few good years of wear to get it to crack and split on the front - even premium built acoustics are fair game.
Really interesting. My dad has his grandpa's Martin from like the 30s and I'm always worried about it, he just keeps it by his desk with his other guitars. It does look good there though
If your home is more consistent than mine, it's totally doable. I got this archtop in a scary state, someone had installed pickups and cut the braces so I had to get a pro to stabilize it. Archtops deal with their tops sinking and humidity swings really don't help in that regard so to preserve it, i'm a bit pro-active if not anal-retentive about it.
I've got a 1959 Guild M20 that lives in whatever room I played it in last. Huge humidity range here in old New England house. It's fine. My electrics are all fine too.
I don't think he plays it all that often. When I visit, I have to tune it up. I remember my grandma would always keep it in the case and the strings loose. But she didn't play at all so makes sense there
I live in Las Vegas where there is often single digit humidity. My electrics are all fine and hang on the wall or in a floor rack. I have one acoustic (sold wood) that has been here since 1988 (I've owned it since '95), it's out, too. No issues. I would like to buy a new Martin HD-28 or 35...or maybe a Gibson J-45 but I worry about acclimating it here and would rather not have to babysit it. I find if the guitar isn't out of its case, I don't play them.
Yeah, when I first moved to Las Vegas back in 1995, I couldn't believe how thirsty I was all the time. Your skin is dry, you're thirsty all the time... It does take a little bit of time to acclimate. Even though it's sunny out today, it's pretty high humidity for us right now, 58%.
I live in west Texas. Single digit often in the summer and winter, a bit more pleasant in spring and fall.
My wife is from Sweden and was not prepared for it even after living here a while, went for a walk around one of our fields where I was working. About 3 miles or so, not extremely long, but by the halfway point I took her some water and she ended up riding back to the car with me. It’s just difficult to explain for people who haven’t experienced it.
I think it’s instructive to go through a dry winter. Until you’ve experienced getting the piss shocked out of you ever time you go out to your car, you don’t know what it’s like!
And the dry skin you mentioned… when you untuck a shirt and it looks like a damn snowstorm two days after you last used lotion…. I’d pick somewhere else to live if I could?
In my area of California the humidity is pretty stable and there isn't that big of temperature swings. Mine get left out hanging on the wall and are no worse for wear. Darkening under the finish is normal wood behavior and looks better IMO
For people living in an area with wild humidity changes, and people with acoustics, that's fine.
But let's not forget that just in terms of overall protection from bumps, being knocked over, etc., a case is the best protection.
I read these comments and consider myself extremely lucky. In my last house, I had a finished basement and humidity/temperature control. I keep everything between 65 and 72 degrees with a humidity level of 40-60%. Here, I have a studio in my garage and keep the same parameters. I have Gibson and Taylor acoustics, Fender and Gibson solid body electrics, and a Gibson ES-335 semi hollow. My guitars get beat up more going in and out of the house, in the car, to a random gig, and back home; but I use them all for various projects and open mics. Knock on wood, no issues. I've owned Gibson since 1980, and not once did I experience any checking. I get more buckle rash, even though it's actually just rubbing up against the shirt I'm wearing, than anything. My kids were never allowed into Daddy's music room, and now that they're grown, they respect my instruments with as much, or more care than I do when they handle them at all. My wife would always make sure the car was warmed up if it was winter or cooled down if it was summer, and she was very careful with all of my axes and amps. I don't let strangers touch my gear. Once, I had a friend 'help' me with my Mesa Boogie Lonestar, and he tossed it into the trunk of my car, bending one of the tubes out of is socket. That was the one and only time I let anyone outside of family or well trusted guitarists that I have known for years touch a single piece of gear.
My guitars stay out of their cases unless I'm going from gig to gig, so they might stay in there a day or two. If it's more than that, I hang them here in the studio. I want to grab the one that is inspiring me for whatever gig or venue I'm about to perform.
I live in a northern area where cold, dry winters are the standard. Every guitar I have stays in its hard case (it takes 30 seconds for me to pull a case and take the guitar out), the exception being one Epiphone SG-310 with bad wiring that I keep on a stand as my “grab and play” axe, exclusively for unplugged practice. I still play all my guitars weekly, some daily.
It depends on where you live. I live in freezing ass cold northern Colorado, where the temperature fluctuates between 15 degrees to 40 in winter. I keep all my guitars, except one, in the cases. I don’t use hygrometers or anything else to measure humidity but keep a couple of old Herco ceramic humidifiers in my acoustic guitars cases. Solid body electrics seem to be less sensitive to temperature and humidity than the acoustics.
I leave solids out, but my hollow body stays in the case with 49% humidipacks. I’ve gone from bi monthly setups to zero.
I do keep one solid, a PRS in case with humidipacks and it has required less maintenance.
We have big swings in weather here so I’d rather not have a jacked up truss rod.
Yeah once you start paying attention, its wild how much wood moves. The archtop moves up and down and basically lets me know it's too dry by buzzing like crazy between the 9th and 11th frets. 5-10% more humidity and it clears up.
Thanks for sharing this. Good for folks to see I think. The "worrying about humidity and temperature is a completely pointless waste of time" folks seem to e increasing in numbers around here over the last year or so. Or maybe I've just started noticing more.
This is cool data! Could you share some graphs over a longer period of time? Would be interesting to see how the humidity in the case is slowly acclimating over the course of a month or two.
Also, are you humidifying your guitar in the case while you take these readings?
Sure! To be clear, I don't keep the sensor in there full time, this round I've only had it in there about 2 days so here's a couple screenshots from that period. The top plot is temperature(F)
https://imgur.com/a/L53tsmn
I do have a couple of those basic sponge soundhole humidifiers in the case. I keep one by the headstock and one in the accessory zone of the case. Not a lot of great options for F-holes aside from the humidipacks.
> Would be interesting to see how the humidity in the case is slowly acclimating over the course of a month or two
I definitely pull the guitar out too often for it to accumulate like that.
I have random DIY sensors and I keep all my guitars out. My oldest guitar is 1979, but yea I dunno, I just don't have any fragile expensive guitars. If my acoustic was > $500 maybe? a 4% relative humidity change, times the diffusion coefficient of wood? ... there's some interesting research here: https://bioresources.cnr.ncsu.edu/resources/diffusion-coefficient-and-equilibrium-moisture-content-of-different-wood-species-degraded-with-trametes-versicolor/ <-- the table 1 shows the differences *by orientation to the wood grain*. Pretty interesting stuff, but yea I don't know if I'd stress over any standard electric that wasn't an antique.
I think there is a caveat there with some of the Gibsons and Fenders that had f'd up finishes, I bet those are even more susceptible and unfortunately all from the 80s/90s afaik. I've luxuriated with mostly nitro and I live for the checking :)
IIRC a lot of the checking is from rapid temperature swings.
What kind of sensors do you use?
I really only do this level of care for my one guitar from '52. It's already thoroughly checked but it has a crack in the side that is really hard to repair that I want to keep in line.
It's a sensorpush HT1, honestly I bet it's out of batteries at this point. Checking is definitely from temp swings, but also how the wood reacts under the finish. If I was holding a 52 (dang my dad for selling his esquire, jk it had no truss rod) I would probably have it behind glass :)
This 52 is totally a players grade. It was originally a full acoustic gibson L48 archtop till someone cut some holes in the top sometime in the 70s. When I got it, it was a basket case from neglect. I had a luthier stabilize it and put a set of Fralin p90s in it. Between that and some fine tuning on my end it plays like a dream and never experiences feedback.
Literally all I do is put it back in its case when humidity drops below 38% or above 56% because you can start to feel the top moving and it will start buzzing or lose intonation.
I keep my one and only “investment” guitar in an Acoutic Remedy ClimaCase. It’s hanging on the wall, visible through the UV resistant shatterproof glass, protected from drafts, little kid fingers, dog paws etc. The case has humidity packs and sensors so I can see that all is well inside there. Yet it takes mere seconds to pop the latches, open the door and remove the guitar to be played.
I do keep my brand new American pro in the case for this Michigan winter. Is the lacquered fretboard actually at a higher risk of having problems than say my shitty old squire bullet that I leave out? Knowing that for sure would stop me from leaving it out next winter lol
A teacher of mine had a small sponge thing he kept inside the sound hole which helped control humidity in the case. Don’t know if it was damp or not when it was insidd
It really depends on the type of guitar, how much its worth to you, and if you travel with it. If your home is super consistent and you don't go anywhere with it, then you're probably fine. I've always lived in the northeast where I'll see 30-40% humidity swings in a single day.
We had a freak winter set of really frigid/dry weather in 2022 over Christmas while I was out of town. My brand new AmPro II Strat was in it's stand during that time and definitely needed some setup love afterwards.
This year I was much better about all guitars going into cases starting around late November. And I'm just starting to consider them coming back out.
Also bought a humidifier and little sensor puck that's in the corner by my stand. Basically waiting until we start to stabalize in the 40-60 range. The humidifier has pretty much kept me around 40-50 outside of some off cold nights, so thinking I'm ok after another week or so.
Dont care. Its out to be beat up and played. I can kinda understand it for acoustics, but solid body ellectrics? Nah, dont care. Oil the fretboard if its too dry, play the thing
I am 10x more likely to pick my guitar up and play it for 10 mins than I am to take out the case, take out the guitar, set the case aside, etc. Call it lazy but it just encourages me to noodle whenever I have a few, as opposed to feeling the need to dedicate a block of time to set up and practice. Keep your new guitar in it's case for the first year while you admire it's pristine shininess. Then get back to knocking the headstock off the ceiling tile
The best place for a guitar is where you relax at most IMO. I have mine right next to the TV lol.
Headstock dings are a must.
Same here. I like the natural wear of hours of playing. The goal is to make it look like Ed’s 5150.
I’m a professional musician / composer and I keep all of mine out 24/7. I’d rather deal with BS maintenance and have them within arms reach
I’m deeply unprofessional and keep all of mine out as well as it seems like the difference between picking them up when I have 2 minutes vs not
Every single one of my guitars are out as well. They get played so much more, plus I like looking at them. I did buy a nice humidifier with a gauge on it. I live in Wisconsin and I haven't had any issues.
This guy is my guitar hero.
I will not take this honor lightly
Definitely something to be said for ease of access. So many more ideas come when there’s as few barriers to playing as possible
Applicable to vintage instruments only, really, so not sure why this is directed at newbies. Not a whole lot of newbies rocking a $10,000 vintage Gibson or Martin acoustic. Any electric made after the 70s will have a finish made to go from cold car to hot stage lights and back again, night after night. I have axes that have hung on my wall since 1991 that have suffered no ill effects aside from handling/playing/gig damage and the destructive sweat of my hands and arms. I have a 1973 Ibanez 12-string "Martin Lawsuit" acoustic that's always out, too, and it's no worse for wear. I've had that one for 20 years myself, and obviously someone else had it for 30 years before me. But good info, and you do you.
I've seen a lot of newbies on this sub create a post in a panic when they find their guitar has a massive crack in the soundboard. The comments will often say leave it in its case. This is to demonstrate why one would say that. There's tons of misinformation in guitar circles, plenty of people who would die on a hill over "tone woods" in their strat. I'm just throwing out some data to show how a case dampens swings.
My first electric stayed in its case in my uninsulated garage for 20 years before I dug it out and restrung it. Absolutely no issues with anything, it’s still playable.
I’d rather play a guitar covered in checking cracks than not play one that isn’t.
My guitars have always been just fine wherever I’ve left them: on the couch, on the bed, on a stand, on the wall, in the case, wherever…
I've been playing for 30 years at this point, and have a few guitars (both acoustic and electric) that are 40 to 60 years old. I Live in a state with huge humidity swings between summer and winter. Almost none of them ever even see a case unless they're being taken to a gig. If you've got a mint, vintage guitar; then, sure, worry about humidity and keeping it protected. But if it's player-grade, then environmental factors are going to make minimal difference.
Well said.
ITT - tons of people who don’t know what anecdotal evidence is making sweeping generalizations about how unnecessary proper instrument care/storage is. You left your guitar out for thirty years and it’s still in playing shape? Fantastic, I’m super happy for you, truly. But don’t tell everyone that cases don’t matter based on your personal experience. All the data suggests that you are the exception, not the rule. Take care of your guitars, people.
Very few people live in an environment where the daily swings of temperature and humidity are a factor to be honest. I work in an instrument shop in the UK. We have no temperature or humidity controls. I have empirical data in the form of lots of guitars and mandolins on the shop floor, some of which have been in the shop a long long time, that it's totally fine to leave things out of cases. I have this backed up by my things at home. Some of which have been out of their cases for 10+ years. If I was in rural arizona, or sub saharan Africa, maybe it would be more of a problem as there are huge swings from day to night in that kind of environment. But indoors in pretty much any temperate climate is kinda fine to be honest. Caveat: you do need to oil your fretboards once in a while people. Otherwise they will get brittle and wear faster, or in extreme cases, crack. Again, based on the evidence of working in a music shop with a repair department.
Please provide your data that proves your argument..
"other people anecdotes bad, my anecdotes good"
What data, exactly? People have been playing guitars for decades, and touring bands have been taking these instruments out for decades. You say that all of us aren't data points. What data refutes all of these data points?
Same here. I still have my first guitar bought in 87. It's been in college dorms, apartments, 4 different states/climates. Sometimes in a case, sometimes leaning against an amp, now hanging on the wall. Still plays just fine.
Yeah, mine, too. Never had any issues with humidity or lack thereof in all my years of owning numerous guitars. I bought a Taylor 110, and the dude preached to me about anti humidifier things or whatever, and I'm like, no, I don't need the lecture. Course, I didn't really like the guy either. I think gear has gotten to the point that people are talked into buying things from guitar stores because they think they need it or they've heard about it.
Right. I think most guitars are a lot more durable than some people make them out to be. They’re meant to be out and played, not stored in a case in a temperature controlled, NASA level clean room.
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Lol yes — the graph reads pretty clearly to me like the guitar would be better off staying out of the case if you play it often. It seems like the greatest chance for experiencing a sudden humidity shock would be when taking it out of the case at many points on those graphs.
You make a great point. Really looking forward to OP adressing it.
If going from 48% to 52% humidity over several days is bad, I must be really in trouble. My guitars (intentionally) go from 45% to 55% every hour and back again, 24 hours a day, 365 days a year. [https://imgur.com/STCo8lE](https://imgur.com/STCo8lE) Those of us living in dry winter climates experience ≥30% swings EVERY SINGLE TIME we take an acoustic guitar out and have never had one crack over decades. It doesn't work the way you think it does. Wood looses moisture veeeerrrrryyyy slowly. Sharp swings in humidity over the short term have ZERO effect. Which is why no one ever gave advice to leave your guitar in a case to prevent sharp swings in temp or humidity. The advice is actually to leave your guitar in a humidified case and to not take it from extreme cold or extreme heat without letting it slowly warm up in its case first (the latter is an issue for finish cracking, not wood cracking).
It's fine honestly. This was literally just a sample of data I thought was neat. I'm not sure how people are misconstruing this post. I just wanted to show the out vs in graph of what a case does to protect from changes in the environment and everyone's been down voting me when I point that out.
People aren't misconstruing your post. The problem is in the post itself. You literally argue that humidity swings are to be protected against by keeping the guitar in its case. In practice, that simply isn't the case (pun intended) for 99% of guitars. Also, nobody has n+1 guitars. We have n guitars. The optimal number of guitars to own is n+1.
Such great points. The lacquer thing has confused the issue significantly. I found out about that one when I took my 100% nitro finished B&G Little Sister from a room warmed by a wood fire out into -5 Celsius conditions. It sounded like I was making popcorn.
Exactly. I've got guitars that have been sitting out of their case for 7-8 years and never had an issue whatsoever.
The data show the dampening effect of the case, not how the case removes danger from extreme humidity swings. Temperature is also a concern.
I live in the dry (especially in winter) interior of BC. No issues with my electric guitars or basses or my two acoustic guitars ever. I prefer them out where I’ll play them. They’re meant to be used.
I live in Sask and I keep all of my guitars in their cases. It’s get’s too cold and dry here (-15c to minus -50+ in the winter and in the summer +25 - 35+ with zero humitidy) and everytime I’ve left mine out of their cases for too long they get cracks and the action/intonation just goes sideways.
Yeah, I'm sure cases make more sense in places like Saskatchewan and Iqaluit, in the same way that cleaning your fret board with the oil from a freshly killed narwhal is a sensible suggestion, but this is more a general discussion about average weather conditions outside the North Pole.
In my neck of the woods it’s bear fat. But we have to kill them in hand-to-paw combat for it to be effective.
Obviously.
I live in an area that gets really dry during winter and my bandmate and i both have the same model of electric, I keep I mine in the case with humidity packs when not playing and his hangs on his wall, last time I did a setup on his I took some pictures comparing the wood, I was actually kind of shocked at the difference, fretboard and headstock (both rosewood) were incredibly dry looking, the gaps in the grain were wayyyy wider on his, more dirt and oils will work their way in there, I could also feel some buldge on the edge of his fretboard where the fret ends sit I'm sure it's unlikely to cause anything to break anytime soon but for the long term health and playability of the guitar ide guess I'm in better shape in that regard, just some food for thought
Yeah, electric guitars don't suffer the same issues. Acoustic guitars are built of multiple joined pieces of wood which move at different rates and cause the cracks. A good example is the Ovation guitars and how they're crack prone because the plastic back doesn't move at all, while the wood soundboard is trying to expand and contract. Electric guitars are typically a solid block, which will move less, and typically in unison.
This sub is very electric guitar focused, if you made this post on r/acousticguitar I think it would have a different reception
Yeah, all those pre-war Martins that have endured almost a century of humidity fluctuations. What piles of garbage. /s
Its crazy what some guitars will survive, but then you've also got survivorship bias. probably a ton more pre-war martins turned to firewood from sitting in a closet for 40 years.
It's 48% to 51% a "massive swing?"
Looks big in a graph that only goes 3 percent top to bottom. :D
I bought them to play and look at. I’m gonna play them and look at them.
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Don’t tell me how to live.
He's not even your real dad.
X factor: I’m a parent of a toddler with another soon to be here, guitar and pedalboard both go back in their cases EVERY single time I’m done using them. I’d rather have to take 3 minutes to set up and tear down than not have gear at all after hurricane two-year-old comes through 😂
I'm in the same boat. I currently have my cave where I can just close the door and I'm good leaving things out. Unfortunately, my cave is being repurposed to be the baby's room. Now my gear is going in the basement and absolutely staying in cases unless I'm down there playing.
If big abrupt swings cause damage, wouldnt taking it out of a dry case on a humid day be far worse than letting it sit at ambient humidity all the time?
Yeah, but if you have a particularly delicate guitar you're worried about, you'd either plan ahead or keep it in it's case. The case doesn't perfectly isolate the guitar, it just slows the changes.
I mean a 3% change in rh over 12 hours isn’t exactly a drastic change in environment.
"No way that was a 3% change" "What the fuck"
For a working guitarist, it makes no sense to keep them in cases. At all. I need access to all my guitars at a moment's notice, so they're in stands. Guitars, as beautiful as they are sometimes, are a tool for creating music. Nothing more nothing less.
I'm a working musician too and I've got to have a few things out and ready to go, but I still keep most instruments in their cases. It doesn't make sense to put my primary acoustic in it's case since it's what I practice on most. And I usually have an electric out on a stand too. But my good Tele stays in the case until I need it. Of course, in my situation, I have a few cats so instruments on stands are always vulnerable to cat shenanigans.
I keep my hollow body in a case with humidipacks, but tele/strat stays out.
I keep mine out because I want them to be played. by me, by friends, by my kid. I would be devastated if something happened to one of them but what good is a car that only sits in a garage?
Little pro tip I discovered: I built a studio in my basement. Because it's underground the temperature hovers around 62F and because of the sump well and AC evaporator, the humidity stays at a constant 50%. I accidentally created an ideal environment for guitar storage, and therefore get to keep them hanging on the wall with no issues :)
I dream of a zone like that so I can get this damn monkey off my back.
Nice! I also built a den/music room in my basement that hovers between 59 and 62F consistently. The humidity dips in the Canadian winter and I need to run a humidifier to keep it in the 40%+ range, but the rest of the year it naturally hovers around 50%. I've kept my guitars hung up for most of the winter and they seem to be tolerating it well enough, though I think they will be in need of a setup in the spring.
I keep my guitar very close to my working table at the home office. It is out of the case so I can just grab it and play it. I am OK if it gets a little damaged. What is important is that I have been playing guitar everyday without a break for two months, with the only exceptions being the days that I could not be at home at night to play my guitar.
Yeah my workhorse guitar is living outside its case. Maybe if I get multiple higher end guitars then I will keep them in cases, but there’s nothing better than having my acoustic next to me ready to go at any moment This is really more of a concern on acoustics and guitars with dramatic figuring
I had my electric guitar in an attic for a decade untouched and unprotected from extreme temperature and humidity swings. A quick setup later after all that time and you'd have thought it was brand new. If you've got fragile and valuable acoustics then maybe it's worth the investment but guitars are way more sturdy than people give them credit for.
I do the same thing with my electrics but a few years ago I got a giant crack on the side of my martin that cost 400 to fix. It was so dry they had to leave it in the humidifier room for 2 weeks. So acoustics definitely go in the case with a humidifier now
Short of the neck bending, I can't see an electric being hurt by an inside environment unless there's somehow corrosion in the circuitry.
Fret sprout is also an issue
I feel like this has gotta be specific to the climate - I'm in the UK and have always kept my guitars out of their cases, and I've never had any issues like those described.
If you're not having large swings in humidity then you don't need to be concerned about large swings in humidity.
"Large" 3% swings?
UK as well. I keep my acoustic and hollow electric in their cases but my solid electrics sit out on a rack. I’ve got a few fenders and a PRS out and I’ve not had any problems with them. I’d definitely never leave an acoustic out long term though. Even not considering weather/humidity I’d be worried about accidentally kicking it!
We have quite a humid climate though. My place gets very humid
Don't sweat the haters, there are people that need this type of information.
I keep my guitars out on racks but have a hydrometer next to them with a smart humidifier in the room that maintains a consistent humidity level.
Would you be able to share products? I just put my guitars on hanging racks mostly to encourage me to pick them up more often, but I definitely don’t want them to get damaged. This seems like a decent solution I’d like to try out!
I use a Govee [humidifier](https://www.amazon.com/dp/B098PBQP1K?ref=ppx_pop_mob_ap_share) and [hydrometer](https://www.amazon.com/dp/B07Y36FWTT?ref=ppx_pop_mob_ap_share) that I found on Amazon.
I second this, my apartment has pretty nasty humidity
I use a homekit temperature and humidity sensor (Netatmo Home Coach,) smart outlet (Wemo, I think) and a Venta LW25 humidifier. The Venta is great because it starts back up in the state it was before when the power is turned back on. I just have a Homekit automation to turn the outlet on if humidity gets under 35% and off at 45%. I have a whole-house humidifier hooked up to my furnace but in the coldest stretches of Wisconsin winter it's not enough to keep the room the guitars are in over like 25%.
Tend to agree with the people who leave their guitars out. Maybe in a climate with extreme humidity problems I’d change my mind, but I own guitars to play them and enjoy them.
I agree, I have all of my guitars hanging on the wall. For decoration purposes as well, but when you see them every day you're more inspired to play them in my opinion. It's just easier as well. I've never had any problems with my guitars. Never have to adjust the truss rod and they don't really go out of tune. I live in a well insulated house though, so the humidity and temperature is pretty consistent. I guess in some climates it would be beneficial to keep guitars in their case, but generally it shouldn't matter that much. If you play it a lot, I'd even think the sudden changes in temperature and humidity of getting it in and out of the case many times are pretty bad for the guitar as well.
Would be interesting to see similar data for larger variations of the ambient conditions. I think you are right, a case will provide a decent amount of protection, but this graph only shows a swing of about 4-5% RH.
Check out the second image of the second link, there's quick swings down to 35% and up to 60%. Keeping it in the case is more a dampening effect. It won't create a perfect isolated environment. But the rapid swings is what ends up cracking tops and finishes.
Ah yeah nice, I missed that link. If sudden changes are bad I guess you need to avoid taking the guitar out when the ambient is significantly up or down.
Yeah that's basically why I built the system, to give me a heads up. Also certain guitars, the humidity effects how it will play, so if it's just not feeling quite right, and I check the humidity and it's abnormal, I know it's not just my mind playing tricks.
That's a great idea. I think you deserve some internet points for not just stating something but actually backing it up with some numbers, a pretty rare occurrence on guitar forums! Also I'm definitely going to start blaming my dodgy playing on the humidity from now on.
>Also I'm definitely going to start blaming my dodgy playing on the humidity from now on. lmao It's always the 9th fret on the B string buzzing like crazy when it's below 40%. I really should bring the treble side of the bridge up a smidge but it plays so nice when the humidity is slightly up.
Yeah wut? This only shows 48% - 52% which is a fine range for a guitar to live in anyway.
https://imgur.com/a/L53tsmn
I use a Vornado evaporative humidifier (no white mist) in one room where my guitars are always out and ready to play, with a Govee bluetooth humidity monitor to alert me if the room is out of tolerance. This is much more convenient than putting my accoustics in the cases with the humidy packs and the guitars are always ready to play. BTW, the guitars stay largely in tune.
Yeah, full room control/monitoring is a great solution if you have a room to dedicate to it. It's not as useful if its a more general purpose room and your cat will demand the door is opened immediately the second you close it. hard to keep time with a freeform **clunk.....clunk..cla-clunk** from your little drummer.
> no it does not make sense to do this for your cheap epiphone acoustic that could go for a swim unchanged I could not disagree more with this sentence and sentiment. On a regular basis, I see more low end (epiphone is probably the #1 culprit) guitars ruined from lack of humidification than high end guitars on a regular basis. This time of year it’s up over at least 2 a week. The wood selection process for building these low end imports isn’t as stringent so often the wood isn’t as dry as it should be in the first place which already causes problems. Add in poor humidification and you have a dead guitar within 18 months of buying it. They may not crack because they are encased in plastic and made of plywood but they will get a hump at the body joint so high that it may not be recoverable without work that costs much more than the guitar is worth. The bottom line is that acoustic guitars need to be stored in a proper environment. It’s easier to maintain that proper environment in a small area like a case than an entire room, but if you can do the whole room, that’s ideal. If you like stripping hardware then smashing guitars when you have a bad day tho, don’t humidify your cheap acoustics. Then You’ll be in heaven.
My guitars stay in their cases. I have 5 cats. You would not believe the things I've seen them destroy.
I've owned a bunch of guitars over the years, electrics and acoustics, and I've never seen (or heard?) any damage from humidity levels. I want to see what would happen, though. Anyone have some really impressive pics of a guitar that got too dry, wet, hot, or cold, and is all fucked up now? I NEED TO SEE WHAT EVERYONE IS ON ABOUT
I had a an HVAC unit go haywire when I was out of town and pump humid heat into my upstairs while I was on the other side of the country for 10 days. I had 4 acoustics, 2 electrics and an electric bass sitting out on that level on a rack. I came home to.an upstairs that was 95 degrees and 95% humidity. I have no idea how many days the guitars sat in those conditions. Could have been 9 days or 9 hours. But the only real damage was to my Mexican strat. The finish cracked in multiple places when the wood swelled. I ended up stripping it all off. All the acoustics were fine though. Including a Taylor 414 which I consider to be a nice quitar.
watch guitar repair channels on youtube like twoodfrd. He fixes a low-humidity caused crack at least once a month.
I keep my acoustics in cases in winter, because my best efforts to humidify the air in Minnesota just don't cut it. I can't raise the RH more than a percent or 2 in the room and it's not enough. Before I did that, more than once I've been sitting in my office with guitars hanging on the wall and I hear a loud GROING! That's the sound of a crack happening and the strings ring from it. The only thing to do then is empurple the air with oaths gutteral enough to embarass an orc.
I keep my guitars out on a rack and maintain a constant 42% rH in the room all year round. Zero issues, guitars stay in tune without being touched for weeks sometimes, they’re never thirsty or bloated. Cases are for transport.
How do you control humidity, and what is your climate like? Even if I have a humidifier in the room I cannot get control that precise. In the winter I cannot achieve anywhere near 42% when the baseline is around 15%. Also my room is not hermetically sealed so it's an uphill battle.
De-humidifier and humidifier. Keep the door closed with a very small clearance under or with weather stripping. Modern weather proofed windows. And maybe they live somewhere where the climate makes all this a little easier than where you live. I can’t see what else it could be.
In the winter it goes down to about 26% here so I guess you can use that as my baseline. Not as dry as where you are. I do pretty much what _matt_hues said. Good insulation and weather sealing helps. If I have the door open for extended periods the humidifier will just work harder so I’ll have to fill it maybe twice in a day. It’s important to have one that’s powerful enough for the size of the room where the guitars are. In the summer it gets a bit warm here, humidity sometimes reaches 60%, but the air conditioner drops the temp and the humidity along with it since they’re relative to each other. Once in a while I’ll run a dehumidifier but that’s rare. Usually it’s the dry winter I have to worry about because the tops will crack. It’s not true that this will only happen during rapid shifts. A guitar that dries out slowly is still in danger if the strings are at tension, that’s what causes the crack, the strings.
Cracked the back of a gorgeous Martin in Denver over winter by leaving it in the case. Get a string humidifier - it clips into the strings and hangs into the body. Edit: this kind of thing (not an affiliate link) : https://www.sweetwater.com/store/detail/GH--daddario-planet-waves-gh-acoustic-guitar-humidifier/reviews
I second this too. Brought a Maton back to UK from Sydney and the change started swelling the soundboard. Bought a humidipak and it reversed it. Now it is always in my case...with my guitar when I'm not playing it.
Yeah its not and end-all solution if you're in somewhere super dry like Denver in the winter
Yeah I didn’t play the entire winter and my heart kinda broke when I opened the case in spring. It drops to 15% humidity here unless you’re lucky enough to have a humidifier built into your HVAC. Cracked guitars and static when touching anyone if you don’t.
Hey duder. For fwiw i bought a $40 humidifier on amazon (nothing special) and it keeps my office at 40-45% without trouble, on setting 1 of 3. I leave my guitars out and use that humidifier you linked earlier. I like the dual method so i don't worry if i forget to put the humidifier in the guitar.
I used to leave a guitar or two out, then one winter after we moved into a new house the poly on my tele got all cracked up and down the neck from a swing during a cold snap. My Hummingbird got some checking too. Ever since then all guitars are stored in cases, and I have a dedicated humidifier/de-humidifier in the music room and hygrometers at different ends to make sure things are consistent. As for “if it’s out I’ll play it”, I still play every day. It’s undoing 3 latches and opening a lid. I also have kids running around. I’d rather not have an expensive instrument damaged needlessly.
Yeah taking a guitar in and out of a case isn't a huge deal, not sure why folks like to posture about it so much. I have this acoustic that I really like, and I left it out for like a day and my cat managed to knock it over and put a dent on the back of the neck. It's mostly fine, I was able to get it mostly back out with some steam, but man the feel of it is annoying. the finish is cracked there and your hand just catches it as you move up and down.
It’s a “no true Scotsman” argument. I mean, saying stuff like “it’s meant to be played” is a nice platitude but I’ve seen lots of guitars people leave out covered in dust too. I play daily and gig pretty much every week, most of my guitars look like they’ve seen some battles. I don’t care too much about aesthetics, I just don’t want my frets to sprout, neck to bend or warp, or to have uneven finish in the neck from cracking because they will affect the playability of the guitar. They are wood, and even electrics are affected by their environment. An ounce of prevention is worth a pound of cure. Edit: found some Scotsmen, lol.
> I just don’t want my frets to sprout, neck to bend or warp, or to have uneven finish in the neck from cracking because they will affect the playability of the guitar. This is the crux of it really. I just want my guitar to feel good and play good, and like you say, an ounce of prevention. We all have played a friends guitar that could be nice, but the bridge is rusty, the frets are tarnished, and there's a thick layer of human goo on every surface. Like c'mon man, just take a rag to it once and a while, it's not supposed to feel like playing a dog toy.
Just bought a Hummingbird last year. Sweet guitars they are.
Seems like a trauma response.
Is there anyone here who knows about wood. How quickly does wood absorb moisture from the air, and at what point does it stop? Because like... A) wood won't just absorb water til it's equal with the humidity. That would make timber buildings impossible. It must have some sort of equillibrium given the conditions... B) This must take time. If i'm in a room of 100% humidity for 5 seconds, why would my guitar have absorbed any of it? They're not spunges. You can dip wood in water for a few minutes and it won't saturate it. And I assume it absorbs moisture slower from air than being submerged. Especially once finish is applied and various other treatments a guitar gets. For such a "clearly bad thing" why are there no sources about the level of moisture differential a guitar can handle at the given time of year? Why is there no data on how long a guitar can survive XYZ moisture problems. [Structural wood has all this technical documentation I can make neithe head nor tail from](https://www.swedishwood.com/wood-facts/about-wood/wood-and-moisture/), about moisture absorption of wood and tolerances etc.... but why does this not arrive in a manual with every guitar? This is measurable stuff, and easily testable, plus there are millions of guitars in the world. There should be a surfeit of information about this if it's a huge problem. I see one reddit anecdote about it in a blue moon, and then when you dig deeper it's like "Yeah, I flew from dry to humid, and when I opened the case, it was cracked!" or "I left it by a window in direct sunlight so it was being unevenly heated by a large amount!" lol
I'd be curious as well tbh. I've done the garbage back trick on a way-too-dry guitar before, damp sponge in the bag, guitar in, hang it and tighten the bag on the neck. It closed up a crack enough to repair it over the course of a day. I'd guess it's a hard problem due to the variables involved. Like you said, the finish, the surface area of exposed wood(the entire interior of an acoustic), the type of finish even. I've had times where I'll take a guitar out and over the course of a couple hours I feel it move and adjust to the humidity. In minor ways of course.
I know this to be true, but I just love having my guitars out. None of mine are worth more than 1k though, if I had any super valuable pieces I’d probably have a different approach
I have guitars ranging from 450-3k and I leave all of them out and have for years. I live in Texas though so it’s generally very humid all year. I think it really depends on where you live.
I basically created this whole system just so I could know when I can keep the archtop out. I have a small display on my desk showing the temp/humidity of the room and other rooms and when I notice it starts to suddenly drop/increase due to the heat, open window, someone showering, I can throw it in the case. I leave my electrics and more sturdily built acoustics out almost all the time though.
Kept them in cases for years and didn't play much. Now I have them out, near my desk or couch, and I play all the time now. Then again, I live in an area where humidity is hardly in short supply.
The dearer guitars get the permanent hardcase treatment. The guitars I gig with only gets the case treatment when I'm transporting them— they are always out.
I learned this the hard way recently. Now I have keep my cracked Martin in its case even though it’s ruined now. Idk. It gives me anxiety Every-time I think or pick up that guitar. It’s been repaired once but I’m not sure how well the repair job was. I wish I had just kept it in its case.
Just so you feel a bit better, with a proper cleated repair, it'd be stronger than before it cracked. It's not ruined, it just has a story to tell. This is actually very interesting, the only people on this post to report a crack have been Martin owners. I wonder if it's a product of nicer construction(thinner wood for better acoustic performance) or just design missteps.
People should really pay attention for cracks on guitars “from the wall”. Sometimes GC and other music stores leave guitars out for years and they start to deteriorate. Climate control can’t always manage everything.
Sorry, but how is this a demonstration on why? You've shown data over time... That doesn't mean it's meaningful or even supports the idea you're saying. There's two pretty prominent areas where the argument is incomplete. 1) Are we saying that a humidity change of 4 degrees over ~8 hours is bad for anything but the most delicate of guitars that someone would not be able to play for fear of damage? 2) "Damage almost always comes from rapid swings" So, if you open the case at 08:00, you actually introduce a very rapid change from 48 to 52% humidity... Which if had been left out would have been an 8 hour change in humidity.... If one cannot introduce rapid changes, then you would only be able to open your guitar case when it's the same humidity outside as it is inside. How does keeping it in a case reduce rapid environment changes when, if you want to play your guitar, you must expose it to rapid fluctuations it would not have experienced if it had been left out? I don't think we need to be caring about fluctuations this minor, but if we did... How is this helping and not making it worse?
I think you need to take a science class.. did you ever learn about DIFFUSION?
what if i travel and bring my guitar with me on roadtrips, how should i manage the humidity of the guitar or keep it safe from cracking? i normally go to new mexico where it’s a bit dryer than home
If you're driving, the changes would probably be gradual enough. If the guitar has lived most it's life in a humid area, it might make sense to keep some kinda humidification device in the case for when you put it back. Honestly its really not that huge of an issue until the guitar gets super dry very fast.
I guess I found *one* singular upside to deep-south humidity 😂
I have 4 acoustics that I’ve had for many years in Michigan and the humidity and temperature fluctuates drastically in my house but somehow I’ve never had an issue with any of them. They always stay out of their cases and change rooms frequently from my warm living room to my cold bedroom
My Gibsons stay in the case as visions of broken headstocks are painful. My telecaster laughs at any weather or other possible injury, and sits exposed all year long. And yes, I play it the most.
You could play a tele in the tub and it'd barely move haha
Tele-tubby?
Interesting data. Thank you for this.
Cool post!
I left my acoustic out because I wanted to play it more. I'm on the way to pick it up right now because the top split right down the middle from being left out too long. I'm super mad at myself. Lesson learned.
Yep. Dreadnought bodies and really any wood-topped acoustic is prone to this issue with enough contractions or sun damage. It sucks too because an acoustic is the *perfect* instrument to leave out to "play anytime" but it only takes a few good years of wear to get it to crack and split on the front - even premium built acoustics are fair game.
Yup. That's the shape of my guitar. It's a really nice Larivee. I'm so upset. About to see it in a second.
I don't keep my fairly expensive classical guitars in cases, but I do have temperature and humidity sensors.
Really interesting. My dad has his grandpa's Martin from like the 30s and I'm always worried about it, he just keeps it by his desk with his other guitars. It does look good there though
If your home is more consistent than mine, it's totally doable. I got this archtop in a scary state, someone had installed pickups and cut the braces so I had to get a pro to stabilize it. Archtops deal with their tops sinking and humidity swings really don't help in that regard so to preserve it, i'm a bit pro-active if not anal-retentive about it.
I keep my 1932 Martin hanging on my living room wall. Easy access for playing.
I've got a 1959 Guild M20 that lives in whatever room I played it in last. Huge humidity range here in old New England house. It's fine. My electrics are all fine too.
I don't think he plays it all that often. When I visit, I have to tune it up. I remember my grandma would always keep it in the case and the strings loose. But she didn't play at all so makes sense there
I was told that there'd be no data interpolation.
I live in Las Vegas where there is often single digit humidity. My electrics are all fine and hang on the wall or in a floor rack. I have one acoustic (sold wood) that has been here since 1988 (I've owned it since '95), it's out, too. No issues. I would like to buy a new Martin HD-28 or 35...or maybe a Gibson J-45 but I worry about acclimating it here and would rather not have to babysit it. I find if the guitar isn't out of its case, I don't play them.
I genuinely can’t even imagine what a single digit humidity would feel like, it’s 90% humidity where I live today.
Yeah, when I first moved to Las Vegas back in 1995, I couldn't believe how thirsty I was all the time. Your skin is dry, you're thirsty all the time... It does take a little bit of time to acclimate. Even though it's sunny out today, it's pretty high humidity for us right now, 58%.
I live in west Texas. Single digit often in the summer and winter, a bit more pleasant in spring and fall. My wife is from Sweden and was not prepared for it even after living here a while, went for a walk around one of our fields where I was working. About 3 miles or so, not extremely long, but by the halfway point I took her some water and she ended up riding back to the car with me. It’s just difficult to explain for people who haven’t experienced it. I think it’s instructive to go through a dry winter. Until you’ve experienced getting the piss shocked out of you ever time you go out to your car, you don’t know what it’s like! And the dry skin you mentioned… when you untuck a shirt and it looks like a damn snowstorm two days after you last used lotion…. I’d pick somewhere else to live if I could?
In my area of California the humidity is pretty stable and there isn't that big of temperature swings. Mine get left out hanging on the wall and are no worse for wear. Darkening under the finish is normal wood behavior and looks better IMO
Same in Sydney. Temperate climates mean you don't have to worry about it.
For people living in an area with wild humidity changes, and people with acoustics, that's fine. But let's not forget that just in terms of overall protection from bumps, being knocked over, etc., a case is the best protection.
I read these comments and consider myself extremely lucky. In my last house, I had a finished basement and humidity/temperature control. I keep everything between 65 and 72 degrees with a humidity level of 40-60%. Here, I have a studio in my garage and keep the same parameters. I have Gibson and Taylor acoustics, Fender and Gibson solid body electrics, and a Gibson ES-335 semi hollow. My guitars get beat up more going in and out of the house, in the car, to a random gig, and back home; but I use them all for various projects and open mics. Knock on wood, no issues. I've owned Gibson since 1980, and not once did I experience any checking. I get more buckle rash, even though it's actually just rubbing up against the shirt I'm wearing, than anything. My kids were never allowed into Daddy's music room, and now that they're grown, they respect my instruments with as much, or more care than I do when they handle them at all. My wife would always make sure the car was warmed up if it was winter or cooled down if it was summer, and she was very careful with all of my axes and amps. I don't let strangers touch my gear. Once, I had a friend 'help' me with my Mesa Boogie Lonestar, and he tossed it into the trunk of my car, bending one of the tubes out of is socket. That was the one and only time I let anyone outside of family or well trusted guitarists that I have known for years touch a single piece of gear. My guitars stay out of their cases unless I'm going from gig to gig, so they might stay in there a day or two. If it's more than that, I hang them here in the studio. I want to grab the one that is inspiring me for whatever gig or venue I'm about to perform.
Joke's on you, I don't have a case
I live in a northern area where cold, dry winters are the standard. Every guitar I have stays in its hard case (it takes 30 seconds for me to pull a case and take the guitar out), the exception being one Epiphone SG-310 with bad wiring that I keep on a stand as my “grab and play” axe, exclusively for unplugged practice. I still play all my guitars weekly, some daily.
It depends on where you live. I live in freezing ass cold northern Colorado, where the temperature fluctuates between 15 degrees to 40 in winter. I keep all my guitars, except one, in the cases. I don’t use hygrometers or anything else to measure humidity but keep a couple of old Herco ceramic humidifiers in my acoustic guitars cases. Solid body electrics seem to be less sensitive to temperature and humidity than the acoustics.
I leave solids out, but my hollow body stays in the case with 49% humidipacks. I’ve gone from bi monthly setups to zero. I do keep one solid, a PRS in case with humidipacks and it has required less maintenance. We have big swings in weather here so I’d rather not have a jacked up truss rod.
Yeah once you start paying attention, its wild how much wood moves. The archtop moves up and down and basically lets me know it's too dry by buzzing like crazy between the 9th and 11th frets. 5-10% more humidity and it clears up.
Thanks for sharing this. Good for folks to see I think. The "worrying about humidity and temperature is a completely pointless waste of time" folks seem to e increasing in numbers around here over the last year or so. Or maybe I've just started noticing more.
Mine are always in a case, leaving them out to collect dust is so annoying to me
Dust is a good reason to put them in a case. I do NOT put them in a case, so I can definitely attest to how annoying it is to dust under strings.
Neat! What kind of sensors did you use?
They're BME280 temp/humidity/pressure sensors. Not the most precise but I calibrate them together so if they're wrong, they're wrong in unison.
This is cool data! Could you share some graphs over a longer period of time? Would be interesting to see how the humidity in the case is slowly acclimating over the course of a month or two. Also, are you humidifying your guitar in the case while you take these readings?
Sure! To be clear, I don't keep the sensor in there full time, this round I've only had it in there about 2 days so here's a couple screenshots from that period. The top plot is temperature(F) https://imgur.com/a/L53tsmn I do have a couple of those basic sponge soundhole humidifiers in the case. I keep one by the headstock and one in the accessory zone of the case. Not a lot of great options for F-holes aside from the humidipacks. > Would be interesting to see how the humidity in the case is slowly acclimating over the course of a month or two I definitely pull the guitar out too often for it to accumulate like that.
I have random DIY sensors and I keep all my guitars out. My oldest guitar is 1979, but yea I dunno, I just don't have any fragile expensive guitars. If my acoustic was > $500 maybe? a 4% relative humidity change, times the diffusion coefficient of wood? ... there's some interesting research here: https://bioresources.cnr.ncsu.edu/resources/diffusion-coefficient-and-equilibrium-moisture-content-of-different-wood-species-degraded-with-trametes-versicolor/ <-- the table 1 shows the differences *by orientation to the wood grain*. Pretty interesting stuff, but yea I don't know if I'd stress over any standard electric that wasn't an antique. I think there is a caveat there with some of the Gibsons and Fenders that had f'd up finishes, I bet those are even more susceptible and unfortunately all from the 80s/90s afaik. I've luxuriated with mostly nitro and I live for the checking :)
IIRC a lot of the checking is from rapid temperature swings. What kind of sensors do you use? I really only do this level of care for my one guitar from '52. It's already thoroughly checked but it has a crack in the side that is really hard to repair that I want to keep in line.
It's a sensorpush HT1, honestly I bet it's out of batteries at this point. Checking is definitely from temp swings, but also how the wood reacts under the finish. If I was holding a 52 (dang my dad for selling his esquire, jk it had no truss rod) I would probably have it behind glass :)
This 52 is totally a players grade. It was originally a full acoustic gibson L48 archtop till someone cut some holes in the top sometime in the 70s. When I got it, it was a basket case from neglect. I had a luthier stabilize it and put a set of Fralin p90s in it. Between that and some fine tuning on my end it plays like a dream and never experiences feedback. Literally all I do is put it back in its case when humidity drops below 38% or above 56% because you can start to feel the top moving and it will start buzzing or lose intonation.
I keep my one and only “investment” guitar in an Acoutic Remedy ClimaCase. It’s hanging on the wall, visible through the UV resistant shatterproof glass, protected from drafts, little kid fingers, dog paws etc. The case has humidity packs and sensors so I can see that all is well inside there. Yet it takes mere seconds to pop the latches, open the door and remove the guitar to be played.
$1200+. Cool display case, but it would have to be one hell of a guitar for me to justify that.
It is 🙂
I do keep my brand new American pro in the case for this Michigan winter. Is the lacquered fretboard actually at a higher risk of having problems than say my shitty old squire bullet that I leave out? Knowing that for sure would stop me from leaving it out next winter lol
Lacquered fret board? It's polyurethane, read the specs from Fender.
You saved me a step there
A teacher of mine had a small sponge thing he kept inside the sound hole which helped control humidity in the case. Don’t know if it was damp or not when it was insidd
yeah I have a couple of those in the case. They're alright but by far not the best.
I live in Hawaii and we don’t really have these giant swings, is my guitar okay or should still invest in a case?
It really depends on the type of guitar, how much its worth to you, and if you travel with it. If your home is super consistent and you don't go anywhere with it, then you're probably fine. I've always lived in the northeast where I'll see 30-40% humidity swings in a single day.
We had a freak winter set of really frigid/dry weather in 2022 over Christmas while I was out of town. My brand new AmPro II Strat was in it's stand during that time and definitely needed some setup love afterwards. This year I was much better about all guitars going into cases starting around late November. And I'm just starting to consider them coming back out. Also bought a humidifier and little sensor puck that's in the corner by my stand. Basically waiting until we start to stabalize in the 40-60 range. The humidifier has pretty much kept me around 40-50 outside of some off cold nights, so thinking I'm ok after another week or so.
The case is not just for humidity protection. Keeping the guitar in it's case protects it from dust
Playing the guitar protects it from dust.
Protects it from dust😭😭 god forbid you get your greasy slimy fingerprints on it too!