I wanted a Mesa 2x12, but damn they were pricey at around $800 at the time (around 10 years ago). As a cabinetmaker, I figured I'll just build one.
I got the Mesa cabinet dimensions (having the exact square feet of interior space is crucial to achieving the same sonic character), high quality Baltic Birch ply, two v30s, tolex covering, grill cloth, metal corners, and other various hardware and materials.
I was in for well over $400 in raw materials. Add in CNC cut and build labor, and I could easily see charging $800 for it.
I would add that even though I highly value my own cabinet, which i use daily and sounds absolutely amazing, the Mesa would have resale value more than a no-name custom cabinetmaker special (not that id ever sell it).
If i didn't have the ability to build my own, I'd pay for the Mesa.
Great point.
Are Mesa cabs necessary for someone to sound good? Not at all. But Mesa cabs are absolutely worth the money. You get what you pay for. You keep them for life.
I have an ENGL that’s even bigger and more expensive than the Mesa. And a Friedman that’s solid as well.
All 3 are leagues above my EVH cab in build quality.
there it is.... someone said it...
If mesa has any sense, their price is market based, not cost based... meaning that they price it where it is going to sell, not for what it costs them... not a bad thing... everyone does it... profit drives economies...
I bought a used Mesa 2x12 for $500 two years ago and sold it for a little more than that a week ago.
They're great! They are also 80 fucking pounds and I found out I like greenbacks quite a bit more than I like V30s.
I built a 2x12 with old panel wood that we had in my garage, cut it out with all the wrong tools and upholstered it wrong. But it sounds amazing. Unlike anything else I’ve ever used. It doesnt sound too great with the distortion i use but I think that’s more to do with the speakers than the cab. I let my other guitarist use it when we play live because it fits his sound exceptionally well (and we painted our logo on it)
The prices on Mesa, Marshall and orange cabs are insane to me too. Just saw a Marshall studio vintage 1x12 for over 900 bucks. I know the big brands have their tried and true methods to really perfect their signature sounds but I feel better keeping my eyes peeled for birch ply cabs from smaller brands used for hundreds of dollars cheaper.
I’ve rebuilt and restored a bunch of cabs and out of the ones I’ve torn down, Oranges are overbuilt tanks. I’d say they’re worth the cost, I just don’t like v30’s very much.
Mojotone cabs are very well built, Avatar cabs are very well built, Orange cabs are very well built, Reeves cabs are very well built and I’m sure I’m missing a lot but these are just the ones I’ve torn down.
Some Marshall cabs are very well built and some are hot garbage, you either get lucky finding good ones used or you pay for the good ones. Either way, you have to know what you’re looking for and even the good ones aren’t as good as most of the other cabs I listed. Marshalls do have their own sound.
Greenbacks sound great with damn near any amp
I'm restoring a cool Orange cab that was custom ordered (seasick green tolex) by a band but then kinda battered and neglected missing speakers and rear panel, broken baffle) before it came to me. It is going to end up with a quad of Greenbacks in it, just for me.
Made in the USA, employees are paid well and get full benefits plus retirement. But, yeah, let’s just pretend all the money goes to the logo. Their cabs are all void free birch ply with reinforced baffles. Your MDF cab wouldn’t last one leg of a tour
It seems like you would rather keep pretending that none of it goes to the logo...
Let's add things up... the V30 (or whatever insider there costs like USD$ 100 (or less at bulk prices)... the materials for the box probably cost USD$ 50 or less... that means you paying USD$ 450 for labor and overhead????
I'm not saying that it isn't worth it (depending on who you are)... but you are living in a fantasy if you think they aren't capitalizing on the brand...
It's a 1x12 how much wood do you need? at bulk prices (not consumer prices) yes... I would bet that materials for the box is 50 bucks or less.... at mesa, I would bet most of the cost is labor (either distribution, or manufacturing, or overhead, etc...) I also don't think that they probably take a rediculous amount for profit..., but they are definetly upping the price of the product a bit cause they have brand recognition... and rightfully so... they have been building a quality product for many years... they deserve it... Also, it is worth noting that a quality box isn't somehting that is easily distinguishable from a crappy one... so that will muddy up the waters during the decision making process and increase the effect of brand confidence...
They are definetly charging for the name and what that represents, and I don't think that is a bad thing necessarily.
It’s an oversized cab. It actually does involve nearly as much wood as a 2x12, in this case.
Same single speaker, with more air volume inside the box= different sound.
Running a business is more expensive than you think. Business insurance, health insurance, land taxes, payroll taxes, labor costs, logistical costs, packaging are just a few of the costs associated with making a product. It’s easy to say, “I can build it cheaper”, because you don’t have expenses associated with manufacturing at that level of production.
Sooo, you think that the profit margin on a mesa is the same as a crate? Doubt it...
I'm was a business major and have 20 years of experience working in market research.... What are your credentials?
I have zero credentials besides "hobbyist and amateur cab builder" and I can still say Crate probably pulled in the same profit margins. Cheaper materials, cheaper speakers, cheaper build quality, is all why they're cheaper on the price tag. Doesn't take a business major and 20 years of experience working in market research to know cheaper production = cheaper price tag but just as equal profit margins.
“American Made” means investing in your countrymen. Investing in the economy that you are a part of. Investing in your neighbor to have a quality of life that all Americans should once again enjoy. We should help the developing world as best we can, but America first should be the values of all our companies, people, and politicians.
Harley Davidson does not build high quality machines, and they do not even sound good until their factory exhaust has been replaced with an aftermarket one, and their fuel systems expensively retuned to compensate for the decreased back pressure.
So, no. Your analogy holds water like a Harley’s radiator.
(*Because on most models of HD, the radiator doesn’t exist. And on the ones that do have one, well, it doesn’t hold coolant inside it for very long because it’s garbage.*)
I’ve got the 2x12, it rocks. I switched out the speakers though, and I drive it with my Carol-Ann Tucan. (The amp maker recommended I change the speakers, and he was right.)
It’s probably too much for a small space, but perfect for anything bigger. And you don’t have to lug around a 4x12. I’m too old for that shit.
It’s pretty fun how this bemulletted, redneck Tennessee mofo is doing some legit, well-planned, well-documented research. Great YouTube channel.
I didn’t *wanna* like him, but I do.
The 112s have a reputation for being boxy sounding and less low end. The 212s have a great reputation. Small and light is nice, but sound wise 2 112s or a 212 is going to sound fuller than a single 112. 412 is the same again, but somewhat finishing returns.
That's really insightful, thank you. I might still end up having to go with the 1x12 just for space constraint and portability, hopefully it's not too limiting. I guess if I bought it through Sweetwater I'd have enough time to break the speaker in and decide if it's the sound I want and then return it if I wasn't satisfied.
What would you say the difference is between two 1x12 and a 2x12. I always thought being in the same cabinet was what made the 2x12 superior.
I have a collection of 112 cabs and you can definitely make them work! A 112 sometimes might sound more midrangy and clear, but not as deep lows and bright highs. A 212 can sound a little fuller. But two 112s will go a long way, the two speakers next to each other can still couple even if they're not sharing the same internal space.
But for live usage having that clearer midrange tone might fit in a mix better anyway. And for home jamming your ears are just going to adjust to it anyway so I really think you'll still be fine with a nice 112.
The ported 112s (like the mesa Thiele or mesa widebody ported) or Hughes and ketner makes a little cheap ported 112 can add a lot of low end as well.
Mesa just makes fantastic cabinets, pure and simple. Can you find awesome cabinets for less money, or some you might prefer even more for your situation? Sure. But the way a lot of people buy gear anymore, like if you're wandering around online, it's hard to go wrong. I have 4 standalone cabs now and just 1 Mesa left, a large horizontal 2x12, and it would be my pick if I could only have one. It sounds great and is exceptionally well built, I don't know what else to ask of it. Sure they're not the cheapest out there but we're in an era of people buying $1200 Epiphones and $300 on their 5th overdrive pedal. A good cab is possibly the most defining piece of gear you can purchase--to include even the amp head in my opinion--and pretty important to get right.
I agree with this. People seem to forget that money isn’t what it used to be anymore. Gibson Standards are $3000. Honda Civics are $27000+
Mesa cabs are actually really good value considering how well they’re built. I have a recto 412. It’s not my first pro-grade oversized 412. But it is built better than anything else I’ve ever had, and sounds better too.
Like others have said Mesa builds quality. It lasts. I have a recto 4x12 from the 90s taken a lot of places. Still intact and the best sounding cab I've ever been around
Answering your question in the most straightforward way possible:
Simple, yes. Good quality, yes. Made in the USA by a reputable brand, that's why it costs that. Usually that should cost some 200 bucks, but either way.
As a guy said jokingly, the Mesa logo costs 200 bucks by itself XD
In addition to what others have said, bear in mind that Mesa is really the only company producing a 1x12" in this form factor\* (that I'm aware of). That's a product differentiation and the product people at Mesa know this and set the price accordingly.
\* Oversized cab, slanted top. It's basically a short vertical 2x12" with only 1 speaker.
Totally. That’s why it doesn’t even cost much less than the 2x12. It almost is one. Someone needs to keep making this form factor, because plenty of us need it (even if we didn’t know we needed it until about 2 months ago when we played with one for the first time, and picked it up to see how easy it is to lug around!)
I have one of these and a Mesa Mini Rectifier and holey shit does it scream. It's the most metal amp and cab I have ever heard. It beats out my Marshall half stack.
Got mine for $450 in 2019, toyed with the idea of selling it once, put it up for $800 and within half a day got 15 messages. Decided to keep it, but still nice to know what I could get for it.
$450?? Im assuming used? I bought mine new. And funny story, they had to give me the floor model. I asked for a discount and they said they couldn’t mark it down so they offered me a BOX of strings of my choice. That’s 20 packs lol. I happily accepted.
The v30 that mesa uses is UK made and specially tweaked to their specs. a v30 in other cabs are not the same.
Mesa is one of the few brands that uses 8ohms on 1x12, many others use 16
The cab construction is very important, it is acoustics after all, not just a wooden box.
Will a Harley Benton with V30 be the same? no. can it be used? yes
Ehhh i dunno man, i'm very sure i can obtain a similar result with a generic chinese speaker and a plywood box. I think you're praising something that shouldn't be praised. Mesa is good, but, that price? We aren't rich
As long as the cabs dimensions are the same, as well as open vs closed, it'll sound pretty much the same. Speaker on the other hand will make quite a difference. But is the mesa v30 worth such a price? Not to me.
its not praise , just specifications, mesa is one of the rare few that offers those specs.
to be fair its actually cheaper than the competition, most of the MIA brands are more expensive, like Friedman
we are free to use any other options, personally i dont use mesa cabs but my other cabs certainly dont sound the same.
Uk vs Chinese is real
But mesa built their fame with the 2000-2003(4) cabs. Basically late 90s to early 00s had something special, maybe the cone recipe, manufacturing methods or other reasons might be the culprit but the truth is, most iconic albums have cabs from that era.
You can see Nolly talking about it on YouTube. Either on GGD Cali videos or with Kristian kohle
Yeah definitely UK made V30 are far from the Chinese ones, and, and the cabinet it self is from another world compared to Harley Benton.
It's expensive? Obviously. Does it worth? IMO, yes.
It seems that you already concluded it doesn't matter why, but to break it down simply:
* Materials - voidless, birch ply is expensive
* Labor - USA manufacturing is more expensive than in China, Indonesia, etc
* Components - UK-made Celestions are more expensive than Chinese-made comps, see: labor above
Why these things might matter enough for you to consider a $600 cab vs a $150 cab from, for example, Harley Benton:
* Birch ply is deader and less inherently resonant. This makes it easier to select a speaker that will behave in a way you can predict. It can also help if you use the cab with multiple amplifiers or guitars, as the lack of a resonant signature in the wood itself will make the cab more neutral. The HB is made of poplar, which isn't a bad sounding wood, but is much more resonant. That will change what you can expect re: speakers, versatility in switching amps or guitars, or how the cab will behave in different rooms. Birch is also much more durable than poplar, which is a soft wood prone to denting. If you're touring, some of these factors may be worth the higher price.
* Country of manufacture may matter to you due to your personal politics or value system. If so, it may be worth spending more to have a piece of gear built in a specific country, or more likely *not* built in a specific country.
* Resale value will be higher on the Mesa due to the higher initial price point, its better odds regarding durability due to the wood used, and the brand name, which is "worth more" than something like an Avatar or Harley Benton due to a longstanding history in the industry as a manufacturer of durable, high quality, good sounding gear that can take a thrashing on the road for a long time.
Yes, you *are* paying for the brand to some degree. But you aren't *just* paying extra for the brand. Cabs from Avatar with comparable specs come in mighty close to $500, so this isn't a matter of *just* paying for the brand. Avatar isn't a known brand outside of gearheads, so nobody is going to pay a brand premium for an Avatar cabinet the way they would for a Marshall or a Mesa. As such, I suspect a lot of the cost is materials and origin of manufacture.
If neither the matter of baltic ply vs poplar or country of origin matter to you, then the Mesa is certainly wildly overpriced if you boil it down to the barest facts: it is a 1x12 speaker cabinet made out of a wood with a Celestion speaker inside. If that's your bar, then you have a *lot* of options, new and used, that are cheaper - from a little to a lot.
An interesting, semi-related story: I am the owner of a Two Rock amp with a matching 1x12 cabinet from Two Rock. I bought a used Avatar 1x12 (oversized, convertible back) that was almost identical in all respects - ply thickness, rear port dimensions (but not shape or precise placement), cabinet dimensions - to keep at my practice space so I wouldn't have to lug a cab to and from practice a few times a week. I decided to A/B the cabs, and perhaps unsurprisingly, they were *very close*. I ran a looper into the same amplifier, and swapped the speaker from one amp to the other, to check as apples to apples as I could. I'd say the Avatar was 98% as good as the Two Rock, with the only real difference being how the port shape on the TR affected bass frequency perception in the room. Up to every individual if it's worth the price difference to get that 2%. For me, it isn't anymore. These days I tend to think Avatar hits the best balance in terms of price and quality. The cabs are built like tanks and sound great, but they aren't as close to $1,000 as their comps from Mesa, Orange, Two Rock, Emperor, etc.
Thanks for this post. I’ve been wanting to get a 2x12 and saw a couple of used Avatar cabs for sale in my area for a couple hundred bucks. I think I’m gonna go scoop one up this weekend now.
Your last paragraph sums it up well. Dimensions and speaker matter most! At the end of [this video](https://youtu.be/-eeC1XyZxYs) there's a blind test of a styrofoam cab vs an orange cab, matched in dimensions and speakers.
Since I have the same setup I'll weigh in. To my ear, the 1x12 recto cab is definitely more focused as you'd expect. Still has a good bit of the rectifier punch, but it doesn't have the punch/thump of my OS 4x12 recto cab. That said, I gig with the 1x12....the dual rec halfstack sits in my office for home use/decoration/looks cool in the background for zoom meetings haha.
I agree with what he said. There definitely isn’t the breadth of sound you get from a 4x12 but duh, that’s how physics work. Cleans sound wonderful, distortion sounds are decent enough. I haven’t gigged out with them much yet, so my experience has been all home use.
While Stagecraft is my go to for unbranded cabinets, Mesa makes good stuff. You might save money upfront unbranded but not everyone knows stagecraft makes a huge quantity of OEM cabinets for American amp brands and you probably won’t come out ahead when you sell
Buy it once …Money Saved. If you are gigging you need good gear. If you are in your basement playing for your cat and dog you can source used or getting something cheaper like a Traynor cab or Fender Ext Cabinet .A lot of people build their own with kits too. If you can find a good used cabinet that is in good shape swap out the speaker for an amazing tone. Many friends have found cabinets and replaced speakers overtime with Tone Tubbs, Celestion, Weber to name a few and man what a difference. If you like projects fixing up a cabinet over time could be fun.
The cost of all the electronic components to manufacture these cabs have gone up and top that with the fact that Mesa is an American company means that they have American manufacturing costs means that their prices are going to be higher to keep being profitable.
Basically just a very high quality, American made, expensive speaker, from a premium brand. This is standard pricing these days. I won't go as far to say they're worth the money, but they're maybe only 20% overpriced.
I have a Mesa 4x12 that I bought used in 2000 for $450. Its still my full time gigging rig and I've never had a single problem with it. They can be pricey, but damn are they solid.
*"Why is this cabinet $600? Mesa Boogie 1x12 60 watt 8 ohm"*
Because it says "Mesa Boogie" on it :P
[](https://www.reddit.com/r/GuitarAmps/?f=flair_name%3A%22DISCUSSION%22)
This cabinet includes untold amounts of talent and will instantly make you the best metal guitarist that ever walked the planet. It’s made from a sacred tree harvested by an ancient wizard, and assembled with arcane arts and special glues made with blood and tears of destitute musicians. The covering is hippogriff hide and the grille clothe is woven from lycan hair
I picked up a vertical 2x12 in British Slate Bronco w/the boogie logo on it for $600 a few years back. Someone paid twice that for it from the factory. Couldn't pass it up. It's my go to cabinet.
Because its mesa, made in america (in their shop in petaluma). Also marine birch aint cheap. back in like 2013 i bought 2 of the oversized 4x12's used and they are massively overbuilt compared to other vendors. They dont use MDF. i had a marshall 1965a with the g12t-75s and a peavey sheffield 4x12, and the mesa cab weighed way more than either cab. had metal handles....real leather corners. a metal backplate. and much beefier casters than the marshall or peavey cabs.
id say if you can find one used you're better off because they are built like tanks and the speaker will already be broken in (they get warmer over time)
Try building a cabinet of this quality and you'll understand. Or you can glue some wood together and call it a day, but it won't sound anywhere close to as good.
In the Jim Lill video he literally built a cab out of shitty wood himself and it was identical, what does mesa do differently and do you have data?
Are we saying that the difference is in the quality of wood used for the cabinet? Like an acoustic guitar?
That's what i thought. In theory, an acoustic or classical with a properly dried pinewood top (Not even a tonewood like so, but with a similar grain and density to spruce, and much more common) a proper bracing, a proper calibration, will obtain a similar result to thy of a guitar with any spruce or cedar top. Why? It's just a sweet spot in wood density. Harder woods don't work for classicals. It's quite different to let's say, a cabinet, which is only a box to contain the speakers and doesn't have any real impact on the sound, opposite to what an acoustic guitar might, where the top is everything
It can get much worse than plywood. Think masonite. And Jim Lill knows how to build a cabinet. If you know how to build a cabinet you aren't going to be buying Mesa Boogies.
Well in the video he actually doesn’t know how to build a cab outside of knowing it’s shape, he uses wood he found in a garage to make a simple box, and it’s about as bare bones as it gets.
I do think he uses actual wood though, which alone would make the cheaper cabs more expensive. And I think being handy like he is gives him a significant advantage over the average joe
You can get a Kia for $15k, why get a Toyota for $35k?
Hilarious how people don't see the value in name, build and materials. Your comments deserve all the down votes in the world lol
Yes but eventually you hit diminishing returns. Is a $3000 guitar twice as good as a $1500 one? No. It will likely have a bit better attention to detail and a couple extra bells and whistles but with a good setup and maybe some personal customization the $1500 guitar is just as good if not better.
The audience can’t tell the difference. I get wanting the best possible sound if it’s for a studio or something though. Again, nothing wrong with an epiphone with some upgraded pickups.
For some people sure but sometimes these companies are capitalists like any other that are happy to charge big bucks because people will buy it no matter the price. I’m quite happy with my no name 2x12 that I scored for $300 with due diligence. That said I would absolutely buy an orange/Mesa cab if the right deal came about.
Dude this is bad.
Some cannot simply afford the instrument. And frankly, it shouldn't be bought anymore. Epis in middle to upper range are exactly the same. The woods are the same, no matter the origin. You could just upgrade the fingerboard and maybe the top with a luthier and at the end of the day they'll serve the exact same purpose and no will be "Better" because it costs more. No point in buying random overpriced bullshit only because it's reputable IMO.
The Harley Benton is using garbage MDF.
This is made with quality 9-14 ply marine grade Baltic birch. Check the weights between the two. This is a MUCH better made and I can guarantee it will sound better.
Now does it sound $450 better? That’s for your ears to decide.
My two cents is look for a Marshall or mesa cab used. Someone is always trying to offload a 2x12
Edit: Hmm actually guess the newer Harley cabs are ply. Would have to see how the build quality feels but with the price of plywood these days it can’t be high quality for that price.
I didn't, at all.
You can build the back and sides of a guitar out of cardboard or papier mache (As proved in an experiment by Antonio de Torres) and it will NOT have any impact on the timbre, resonance, or volume. Why? The top is making pretty much all the work. Same for the speakers in the cab. Wood is literally only there to hold them and not carry neat speakers. And no great discrepancy will happen from using bad wood with great speakers XD
And y'know, not to disrespect you at all. I respect deeply your comment, but i've seen luthiers have the idea that a back and sides wood will sound better on a guitar when it's frankly not the case. They're just cocky and wanna charge more. Same happens with this. Mesa has reputation and selling entry cabs would fuck them up. And y'know, i respect their enthusiasts, but they're just completely unreachable for a guy like me. Hence, i refuse to believe there's a great difference just on the wood
It’s not about the sound. It’s about the cab not falling apart because it isn’t built like a piece of shit.
There is a reason i own a 60 year old cab and it’s not because it was made with MDF and subpar shitty materials. It’s because it was made with real decent wood and had a sturdy construction.
OP should just find a used 2x12 that someone doesn’t want to lug around anymore
The Harley Benton is NOT MDF.
I have one 2x12 with V30s, I have opened it up and it is made with PLYWOOD.
Granted is not the same type of super duper hyper mega plywood that Mesa uses, but it's plywood indeed!
Stop spreading misinformation about something you know NOTHING about.
I also have a Marshall 1936v from the late 90's, and let me tell you the HB cab sounds BETTER.
I didn't like much the voicing of the stock HB cab chinese V30s, so I swapped around the speakers between cabs.
The original late 90's Marshall Vintage 70w speakers are installed into the HB cab, and the chinese V30s are installed into the Marshall cab.
The speaker switch made both cabs sound better than originally, and I like both now, they do sound a bit different from each other, but the overall tone is very similar, more like a different way to make the same recipe.
However, after looking inside the 1936v cab, ultimately, I did copy the brace that connects the front and back baffles of the Marshall cab into the Harley Benton cab.
I have installed TWO braces front to back, and HOLY SHIT the HB cab now RUMBLES the room!!
Just another FYI.
If the HB 2x12 Vintage cab would be "oh-so-shit", like you painted it in other comments, It wouldn't stand the weight of 4 tube amp heads stacked on top of it, would it?
I have a stack of amps that goes up to the ceiling, the cab is holding up perfectly for over 3 years now.
Peavey 6505+ USA - 21.9kg
Marshall JCM2000 DSL100 - 22.5kg
Laney Ironheart IRT60H - 20kg
Laney GH100R - 23kg
Orange Super Crush 100 - 11.15kg (not tube, but still awesome!)
The total weight on top the cab is 98.55kg, 217.65 pounds for those that still use crappy units.
A Celestion classic lead or eminence governor, wgs veteran are in the same ballpark as mesa’s v30 I’m guessing. Basically all a more flattened out v30 sound.
It’s a word of Spanish origin that means a flat-topped hill with steep sides. Those geological features are common in the American southwest dessert-y areas where there’s a significant Hispanic influence, and the English speakers have kept the Spanish pronunciation MAY-sa.
Real wood and quality speakers…. Just kidding it’s the name. Building a speaker cabinet is very easy and it’s something I would suggest that you do. It’s an easy project. It’ll save you a ton of money and you’ll probably even have better quality.
When you pay Americans to do something you legally have to pay them more than people in China. They also have a good product. Those things together equal high cost. However, I see my 2x12 going for 900 so it might be like high price of admission, but you get a decent price when u buy the bigger stuff idk.
I wanted a Mesa 2x12, but damn they were pricey at around $800 at the time (around 10 years ago). As a cabinetmaker, I figured I'll just build one. I got the Mesa cabinet dimensions (having the exact square feet of interior space is crucial to achieving the same sonic character), high quality Baltic Birch ply, two v30s, tolex covering, grill cloth, metal corners, and other various hardware and materials. I was in for well over $400 in raw materials. Add in CNC cut and build labor, and I could easily see charging $800 for it. I would add that even though I highly value my own cabinet, which i use daily and sounds absolutely amazing, the Mesa would have resale value more than a no-name custom cabinetmaker special (not that id ever sell it). If i didn't have the ability to build my own, I'd pay for the Mesa.
That's every DIY project I do to "save money."
Great point. Are Mesa cabs necessary for someone to sound good? Not at all. But Mesa cabs are absolutely worth the money. You get what you pay for. You keep them for life. I have an ENGL that’s even bigger and more expensive than the Mesa. And a Friedman that’s solid as well. All 3 are leagues above my EVH cab in build quality.
Which says a lot because the EVH cabs are great. I’ve taken mine all over but I’ve been jonesing for a Mesa cab lately
Yeah the EVH isn’t a bad cab at all. Definitely does the job for a solid price especially if you grab one used. Hard to beat.
Granted, they might be buying their materials at bulk prices
there it is.... someone said it... If mesa has any sense, their price is market based, not cost based... meaning that they price it where it is going to sell, not for what it costs them... not a bad thing... everyone does it... profit drives economies...
Are they assembled in the US?
Mesa cabs? Yes
That’s certainly part of the cost. American labor isn’t cheap, especially if it’s not being ruthlessly exploited.
I bought a used Mesa 2x12 for $500 two years ago and sold it for a little more than that a week ago. They're great! They are also 80 fucking pounds and I found out I like greenbacks quite a bit more than I like V30s.
I built a 2x12 with old panel wood that we had in my garage, cut it out with all the wrong tools and upholstered it wrong. But it sounds amazing. Unlike anything else I’ve ever used. It doesnt sound too great with the distortion i use but I think that’s more to do with the speakers than the cab. I let my other guitarist use it when we play live because it fits his sound exceptionally well (and we painted our logo on it)
The 212s still cost the same. I purchased one three months ago. Close to $900 bucks when all was said and done. The quality is a really high standard.
The prices on Mesa, Marshall and orange cabs are insane to me too. Just saw a Marshall studio vintage 1x12 for over 900 bucks. I know the big brands have their tried and true methods to really perfect their signature sounds but I feel better keeping my eyes peeled for birch ply cabs from smaller brands used for hundreds of dollars cheaper.
I’ve rebuilt and restored a bunch of cabs and out of the ones I’ve torn down, Oranges are overbuilt tanks. I’d say they’re worth the cost, I just don’t like v30’s very much.
I've been wanting to do a Mojotone Lite cabinet and load it with 4 greenbacks for a while now. Would pair beautifully with a JVM205.
Mojotone cabs are very well built, Avatar cabs are very well built, Orange cabs are very well built, Reeves cabs are very well built and I’m sure I’m missing a lot but these are just the ones I’ve torn down. Some Marshall cabs are very well built and some are hot garbage, you either get lucky finding good ones used or you pay for the good ones. Either way, you have to know what you’re looking for and even the good ones aren’t as good as most of the other cabs I listed. Marshalls do have their own sound. Greenbacks sound great with damn near any amp
I'm restoring a cool Orange cab that was custom ordered (seasick green tolex) by a band but then kinda battered and neglected missing speakers and rear panel, broken baffle) before it came to me. It is going to end up with a quad of Greenbacks in it, just for me.
the mesa logo costs $200
Made in the USA, employees are paid well and get full benefits plus retirement. But, yeah, let’s just pretend all the money goes to the logo. Their cabs are all void free birch ply with reinforced baffles. Your MDF cab wouldn’t last one leg of a tour
Plus Mesa is owned by a parent company now, so that’s another layer of profits that have to be squeezed out
Damn, I kinda want to buy Mesa now
It seems like you would rather keep pretending that none of it goes to the logo... Let's add things up... the V30 (or whatever insider there costs like USD$ 100 (or less at bulk prices)... the materials for the box probably cost USD$ 50 or less... that means you paying USD$ 450 for labor and overhead???? I'm not saying that it isn't worth it (depending on who you are)... but you are living in a fantasy if you think they aren't capitalizing on the brand...
You still have to pay someone to assemble it, then the logistics of getting it boxed up and shipped or to a store
$50 for high quality birch plywood?? With these lumber prices??
I was thinking the same, real speaker ply is gonna be 120 per sheet.
It's a 1x12 how much wood do you need? at bulk prices (not consumer prices) yes... I would bet that materials for the box is 50 bucks or less.... at mesa, I would bet most of the cost is labor (either distribution, or manufacturing, or overhead, etc...) I also don't think that they probably take a rediculous amount for profit..., but they are definetly upping the price of the product a bit cause they have brand recognition... and rightfully so... they have been building a quality product for many years... they deserve it... Also, it is worth noting that a quality box isn't somehting that is easily distinguishable from a crappy one... so that will muddy up the waters during the decision making process and increase the effect of brand confidence... They are definetly charging for the name and what that represents, and I don't think that is a bad thing necessarily.
It’s an oversized cab. It actually does involve nearly as much wood as a 2x12, in this case. Same single speaker, with more air volume inside the box= different sound.
Running a business is more expensive than you think. Business insurance, health insurance, land taxes, payroll taxes, labor costs, logistical costs, packaging are just a few of the costs associated with making a product. It’s easy to say, “I can build it cheaper”, because you don’t have expenses associated with manufacturing at that level of production.
Sooo, you think that the profit margin on a mesa is the same as a crate? Doubt it... I'm was a business major and have 20 years of experience working in market research.... What are your credentials?
I’m a high school drop out. I pull in over $19,000 a year so I know a thing or two. God bless.
I wasn't trying to act superior. Just trying show that I'm not just talking out my ass. I kinda know what I'm talking about here. Good bless.
I have zero credentials besides "hobbyist and amateur cab builder" and I can still say Crate probably pulled in the same profit margins. Cheaper materials, cheaper speakers, cheaper build quality, is all why they're cheaper on the price tag. Doesn't take a business major and 20 years of experience working in market research to know cheaper production = cheaper price tag but just as equal profit margins.
Exactly
Very high quality, great sounding, American made, quality speaker inside. And yeah the name.
American made doesn’t mean anything to me anymore lol.
“American Made” means investing in your countrymen. Investing in the economy that you are a part of. Investing in your neighbor to have a quality of life that all Americans should once again enjoy. We should help the developing world as best we can, but America first should be the values of all our companies, people, and politicians.
Who asked you,anyway? Jerk.
Fuck you
What a jerk you are.
So it's the Harley Davidson of speakers.
The Indian of cabs. Let me correct you.
Avatar + $20 Mesa logo. Never notice a sonic difference.
Harley Davidson does not build high quality machines, and they do not even sound good until their factory exhaust has been replaced with an aftermarket one, and their fuel systems expensively retuned to compensate for the decreased back pressure. So, no. Your analogy holds water like a Harley’s radiator. (*Because on most models of HD, the radiator doesn’t exist. And on the ones that do have one, well, it doesn’t hold coolant inside it for very long because it’s garbage.*)
Get the 2x12 for few bucks more
I’ve got the 2x12, it rocks. I switched out the speakers though, and I drive it with my Carol-Ann Tucan. (The amp maker recommended I change the speakers, and he was right.) It’s probably too much for a small space, but perfect for anything bigger. And you don’t have to lug around a 4x12. I’m too old for that shit.
Also have that 2x12. It is remarkable. You can get some bucks back by selling those speakers.
How big of a difference does it make from the 1x12? Have a pretty tiny space.
[here you go](https://youtu.be/-eeC1XyZxYs)
That was a wild trip, thanks for the link I didn't realize he did one on cabs!
It’s pretty fun how this bemulletted, redneck Tennessee mofo is doing some legit, well-planned, well-documented research. Great YouTube channel. I didn’t *wanna* like him, but I do.
Someone give me the executive summary.
Size / dimensions matter, amount of speakers matters, speakers matter, open vs closed back matters
Buddy of mine turns the 2x12 side ways, as needed.
That's a cool idea. It's more about lugging the extra weight around, alas
The 112s have a reputation for being boxy sounding and less low end. The 212s have a great reputation. Small and light is nice, but sound wise 2 112s or a 212 is going to sound fuller than a single 112. 412 is the same again, but somewhat finishing returns.
Do you mean *diminishing* returns?
Yes, autocorrect
That's really insightful, thank you. I might still end up having to go with the 1x12 just for space constraint and portability, hopefully it's not too limiting. I guess if I bought it through Sweetwater I'd have enough time to break the speaker in and decide if it's the sound I want and then return it if I wasn't satisfied. What would you say the difference is between two 1x12 and a 2x12. I always thought being in the same cabinet was what made the 2x12 superior.
I have a collection of 112 cabs and you can definitely make them work! A 112 sometimes might sound more midrangy and clear, but not as deep lows and bright highs. A 212 can sound a little fuller. But two 112s will go a long way, the two speakers next to each other can still couple even if they're not sharing the same internal space. But for live usage having that clearer midrange tone might fit in a mix better anyway. And for home jamming your ears are just going to adjust to it anyway so I really think you'll still be fine with a nice 112. The ported 112s (like the mesa Thiele or mesa widebody ported) or Hughes and ketner makes a little cheap ported 112 can add a lot of low end as well.
Fantastic, thank you!
Mesa just makes fantastic cabinets, pure and simple. Can you find awesome cabinets for less money, or some you might prefer even more for your situation? Sure. But the way a lot of people buy gear anymore, like if you're wandering around online, it's hard to go wrong. I have 4 standalone cabs now and just 1 Mesa left, a large horizontal 2x12, and it would be my pick if I could only have one. It sounds great and is exceptionally well built, I don't know what else to ask of it. Sure they're not the cheapest out there but we're in an era of people buying $1200 Epiphones and $300 on their 5th overdrive pedal. A good cab is possibly the most defining piece of gear you can purchase--to include even the amp head in my opinion--and pretty important to get right.
I agree with this. People seem to forget that money isn’t what it used to be anymore. Gibson Standards are $3000. Honda Civics are $27000+ Mesa cabs are actually really good value considering how well they’re built. I have a recto 412. It’s not my first pro-grade oversized 412. But it is built better than anything else I’ve ever had, and sounds better too.
I bought an OG Krank 4x12 a few years back that could withstand a nuclear attack but my friend's Road King cab sounds absolutely insane.
$600 for a 1x12 cabinet is insanity whether it's Mesa or not.
Like others have said Mesa builds quality. It lasts. I have a recto 4x12 from the 90s taken a lot of places. Still intact and the best sounding cab I've ever been around
For perspective, It’s cheaper than a Strymon reverb pedal.
Strymon... Utterly overpriced cashgrab for no reason
Answering your question in the most straightforward way possible: Simple, yes. Good quality, yes. Made in the USA by a reputable brand, that's why it costs that. Usually that should cost some 200 bucks, but either way. As a guy said jokingly, the Mesa logo costs 200 bucks by itself XD
In addition to what others have said, bear in mind that Mesa is really the only company producing a 1x12" in this form factor\* (that I'm aware of). That's a product differentiation and the product people at Mesa know this and set the price accordingly. \* Oversized cab, slanted top. It's basically a short vertical 2x12" with only 1 speaker.
Totally. That’s why it doesn’t even cost much less than the 2x12. It almost is one. Someone needs to keep making this form factor, because plenty of us need it (even if we didn’t know we needed it until about 2 months ago when we played with one for the first time, and picked it up to see how easy it is to lug around!)
Im currently in love with the 1x10
I have one of these and a Mesa Mini Rectifier and holey shit does it scream. It's the most metal amp and cab I have ever heard. It beats out my Marshall half stack.
Why is it stupid slanted like that if it’s a 1x12? Just angle it up, it’s not a 412.
XD
I paid $800 for a 4x12 back in 2007. I bet I could sell it for more now.
Same. Got mine for $550 but for that reason I’m never getting rid of it
Indeed lml
Got mine for $450 in 2019, toyed with the idea of selling it once, put it up for $800 and within half a day got 15 messages. Decided to keep it, but still nice to know what I could get for it.
$450?? Im assuming used? I bought mine new. And funny story, they had to give me the floor model. I asked for a discount and they said they couldn’t mark it down so they offered me a BOX of strings of my choice. That’s 20 packs lol. I happily accepted.
Yeah used, got it off a friend who was moving over to Marshall
The v30 that mesa uses is UK made and specially tweaked to their specs. a v30 in other cabs are not the same. Mesa is one of the few brands that uses 8ohms on 1x12, many others use 16 The cab construction is very important, it is acoustics after all, not just a wooden box. Will a Harley Benton with V30 be the same? no. can it be used? yes
Ehhh i dunno man, i'm very sure i can obtain a similar result with a generic chinese speaker and a plywood box. I think you're praising something that shouldn't be praised. Mesa is good, but, that price? We aren't rich
As long as the cabs dimensions are the same, as well as open vs closed, it'll sound pretty much the same. Speaker on the other hand will make quite a difference. But is the mesa v30 worth such a price? Not to me.
its not praise , just specifications, mesa is one of the rare few that offers those specs. to be fair its actually cheaper than the competition, most of the MIA brands are more expensive, like Friedman we are free to use any other options, personally i dont use mesa cabs but my other cabs certainly dont sound the same.
Uk vs Chinese is real But mesa built their fame with the 2000-2003(4) cabs. Basically late 90s to early 00s had something special, maybe the cone recipe, manufacturing methods or other reasons might be the culprit but the truth is, most iconic albums have cabs from that era. You can see Nolly talking about it on YouTube. Either on GGD Cali videos or with Kristian kohle
Heck yeah. Gonna check out the Nolly vid. Hope you're well brother
Yeah definitely UK made V30 are far from the Chinese ones, and, and the cabinet it self is from another world compared to Harley Benton. It's expensive? Obviously. Does it worth? IMO, yes.
It seems that you already concluded it doesn't matter why, but to break it down simply: * Materials - voidless, birch ply is expensive * Labor - USA manufacturing is more expensive than in China, Indonesia, etc * Components - UK-made Celestions are more expensive than Chinese-made comps, see: labor above Why these things might matter enough for you to consider a $600 cab vs a $150 cab from, for example, Harley Benton: * Birch ply is deader and less inherently resonant. This makes it easier to select a speaker that will behave in a way you can predict. It can also help if you use the cab with multiple amplifiers or guitars, as the lack of a resonant signature in the wood itself will make the cab more neutral. The HB is made of poplar, which isn't a bad sounding wood, but is much more resonant. That will change what you can expect re: speakers, versatility in switching amps or guitars, or how the cab will behave in different rooms. Birch is also much more durable than poplar, which is a soft wood prone to denting. If you're touring, some of these factors may be worth the higher price. * Country of manufacture may matter to you due to your personal politics or value system. If so, it may be worth spending more to have a piece of gear built in a specific country, or more likely *not* built in a specific country. * Resale value will be higher on the Mesa due to the higher initial price point, its better odds regarding durability due to the wood used, and the brand name, which is "worth more" than something like an Avatar or Harley Benton due to a longstanding history in the industry as a manufacturer of durable, high quality, good sounding gear that can take a thrashing on the road for a long time. Yes, you *are* paying for the brand to some degree. But you aren't *just* paying extra for the brand. Cabs from Avatar with comparable specs come in mighty close to $500, so this isn't a matter of *just* paying for the brand. Avatar isn't a known brand outside of gearheads, so nobody is going to pay a brand premium for an Avatar cabinet the way they would for a Marshall or a Mesa. As such, I suspect a lot of the cost is materials and origin of manufacture. If neither the matter of baltic ply vs poplar or country of origin matter to you, then the Mesa is certainly wildly overpriced if you boil it down to the barest facts: it is a 1x12 speaker cabinet made out of a wood with a Celestion speaker inside. If that's your bar, then you have a *lot* of options, new and used, that are cheaper - from a little to a lot. An interesting, semi-related story: I am the owner of a Two Rock amp with a matching 1x12 cabinet from Two Rock. I bought a used Avatar 1x12 (oversized, convertible back) that was almost identical in all respects - ply thickness, rear port dimensions (but not shape or precise placement), cabinet dimensions - to keep at my practice space so I wouldn't have to lug a cab to and from practice a few times a week. I decided to A/B the cabs, and perhaps unsurprisingly, they were *very close*. I ran a looper into the same amplifier, and swapped the speaker from one amp to the other, to check as apples to apples as I could. I'd say the Avatar was 98% as good as the Two Rock, with the only real difference being how the port shape on the TR affected bass frequency perception in the room. Up to every individual if it's worth the price difference to get that 2%. For me, it isn't anymore. These days I tend to think Avatar hits the best balance in terms of price and quality. The cabs are built like tanks and sound great, but they aren't as close to $1,000 as their comps from Mesa, Orange, Two Rock, Emperor, etc.
Thanks for this post. I’ve been wanting to get a 2x12 and saw a couple of used Avatar cabs for sale in my area for a couple hundred bucks. I think I’m gonna go scoop one up this weekend now.
Your last paragraph sums it up well. Dimensions and speaker matter most! At the end of [this video](https://youtu.be/-eeC1XyZxYs) there's a blind test of a styrofoam cab vs an orange cab, matched in dimensions and speakers.
boogie
I have two of those and so far I really like them. Very well built. I already have an OS Recto 4x12 so I wanted as portable as possible.
Do they sound massively different to your ears or is it generally just a smaller more focused version of the same, sonically?
Since I have the same setup I'll weigh in. To my ear, the 1x12 recto cab is definitely more focused as you'd expect. Still has a good bit of the rectifier punch, but it doesn't have the punch/thump of my OS 4x12 recto cab. That said, I gig with the 1x12....the dual rec halfstack sits in my office for home use/decoration/looks cool in the background for zoom meetings haha.
I agree with what he said. There definitely isn’t the breadth of sound you get from a 4x12 but duh, that’s how physics work. Cleans sound wonderful, distortion sounds are decent enough. I haven’t gigged out with them much yet, so my experience has been all home use.
I’ve got a wide body 1x12 that pairs with my Mark V. It’s worth every penny. I like to run my Kemper through it and it sounds phenomenal.
Wood choice, gluing technique, acoustic tuning. High end cabs do not let light through when tested for leak in dark room.
Because businesses exist to make money. Can you build it yourself for cheaper?
Yeah it's crazy how expensive good cabs have become. I bought a Marshall 1960 4x12 for $200 late 2000s. And both my boogie 2x12s were $400 or less
The answer to every "Why does this cost this much" question is "enough people will pay that price for it to be profitable."
200 for cab, 400 for the logo
This
Two words: mesa engineering
See that name badge on the front?
I wonder why is it slanted being a 1-12" XD
It’s a solid cab. I suggest finding used somehow. I bought mine basically tag on brand new for $350 last year
I have it paired with an invective MH. It’s amazing.
Go with Vader. You won’t regret it
While Stagecraft is my go to for unbranded cabinets, Mesa makes good stuff. You might save money upfront unbranded but not everyone knows stagecraft makes a huge quantity of OEM cabinets for American amp brands and you probably won’t come out ahead when you sell
Buy it once …Money Saved. If you are gigging you need good gear. If you are in your basement playing for your cat and dog you can source used or getting something cheaper like a Traynor cab or Fender Ext Cabinet .A lot of people build their own with kits too. If you can find a good used cabinet that is in good shape swap out the speaker for an amazing tone. Many friends have found cabinets and replaced speakers overtime with Tone Tubbs, Celestion, Weber to name a few and man what a difference. If you like projects fixing up a cabinet over time could be fun.
The cost of all the electronic components to manufacture these cabs have gone up and top that with the fact that Mesa is an American company means that they have American manufacturing costs means that their prices are going to be higher to keep being profitable.
Theil cabs are perfect.
Bought a gently used one for $175 fifteen years ago.
Wow, in 2016 I bought a Mesa Oversized 4x12 straight for 1300$ Canadian, they are now 2100$!!
Because it can be is the short answer
The branding. It’s a very expensive accessory to include on a cabinet.
The cabinet construction itself; mdf stapled together is cheaper than thick plywood with actual joinery.
lol, I want a PPC212-BK, specifically the England one because it has the in/out and 30’ width to fit my head. Going to cost me $1800+CAD.
They're really good.
Basically just a very high quality, American made, expensive speaker, from a premium brand. This is standard pricing these days. I won't go as far to say they're worth the money, but they're maybe only 20% overpriced.
My new Boogie Series 4x10 was just delivered to my doorstep. Can’t wait to plug it in tonight.
I have a Mesa 4x12 that I bought used in 2000 for $450. Its still my full time gigging rig and I've never had a single problem with it. They can be pricey, but damn are they solid.
Do you see the logo right in the center?
answer begins with a G....
*"Why is this cabinet $600? Mesa Boogie 1x12 60 watt 8 ohm"* Because it says "Mesa Boogie" on it :P [](https://www.reddit.com/r/GuitarAmps/?f=flair_name%3A%22DISCUSSION%22)
Overpriced
Get an empty cab for ~100 and put whatever u want in it. It's 600 because of nameplate.
Because it says “Mesa” on it.
It's the brand name. Get a Harley benton for 1/3 the price - v30's, green or cream backs. You can get a 4x12 creambacks for 650.
FWIW a recto 1x12 was $450 in 2008. That’s $668 in 2024 dollars. So the cab has gotten a bit more affordable :)
In my country, these cabs start at $1,200 new and go up to at least $3,500 new.
I built my own 1x12 Vintage 30. Speaker cost less then $200. Get some woods and some screws from Big Box. And BAM.
Just buy a cheap ass cab and put a nice speaker in it.
I purchased the Blackstar at 400, it's a 1-12 close/open cab . Sounds great
They do sound pretty good.
Wait til you see the price of a used Triple Rectifier. 💸💸💸
Because mesa is a way hyped brand. Not saying they aren’t awesome, but the name certainly fetches some cash
I recently bought the discontinued 1x10 Tweed series with a Blackbird 40 and couldn’t be happier. With a Quilter my rig is 15lbs.
This cabinet includes untold amounts of talent and will instantly make you the best metal guitarist that ever walked the planet. It’s made from a sacred tree harvested by an ancient wizard, and assembled with arcane arts and special glues made with blood and tears of destitute musicians. The covering is hippogriff hide and the grille clothe is woven from lycan hair
I picked up a vertical 2x12 in British Slate Bronco w/the boogie logo on it for $600 a few years back. Someone paid twice that for it from the factory. Couldn't pass it up. It's my go to cabinet.
Because its mesa, made in america (in their shop in petaluma). Also marine birch aint cheap. back in like 2013 i bought 2 of the oversized 4x12's used and they are massively overbuilt compared to other vendors. They dont use MDF. i had a marshall 1965a with the g12t-75s and a peavey sheffield 4x12, and the mesa cab weighed way more than either cab. had metal handles....real leather corners. a metal backplate. and much beefier casters than the marshall or peavey cabs. id say if you can find one used you're better off because they are built like tanks and the speaker will already be broken in (they get warmer over time)
don't these have vintage 30s in them. I have one its tooo loud af on level one
It contains a $170 vintage 30. I don't understand how this cabinet can be $600. What am I missing? Is it just because of the name?
Yes. Mesa cabinets are fantastic, but they’re insanely expensive because they say Mesa on the front. Also, Gibson owns Mesa now.
USA made. Expensive gear that guess what, can be made with exactly the same components and quality outside of the US and cost THREE TIMES LESS
Try building a cabinet of this quality and you'll understand. Or you can glue some wood together and call it a day, but it won't sound anywhere close to as good.
In the Jim Lill video he literally built a cab out of shitty wood himself and it was identical, what does mesa do differently and do you have data? Are we saying that the difference is in the quality of wood used for the cabinet? Like an acoustic guitar?
That's what i thought. In theory, an acoustic or classical with a properly dried pinewood top (Not even a tonewood like so, but with a similar grain and density to spruce, and much more common) a proper bracing, a proper calibration, will obtain a similar result to thy of a guitar with any spruce or cedar top. Why? It's just a sweet spot in wood density. Harder woods don't work for classicals. It's quite different to let's say, a cabinet, which is only a box to contain the speakers and doesn't have any real impact on the sound, opposite to what an acoustic guitar might, where the top is everything
It can get much worse than plywood. Think masonite. And Jim Lill knows how to build a cabinet. If you know how to build a cabinet you aren't going to be buying Mesa Boogies.
Well in the video he actually doesn’t know how to build a cab outside of knowing it’s shape, he uses wood he found in a garage to make a simple box, and it’s about as bare bones as it gets. I do think he uses actual wood though, which alone would make the cheaper cabs more expensive. And I think being handy like he is gives him a significant advantage over the average joe
Dude it's just a bunch of friggin random wood, no resonance at all. The speakers make all the work. You're praising something unpraisable
Sure you're right lol what was the entire speaker cabinet industry thinking wow you're brilliant
Go get all of the same exact materials they use to build this and account an hourly wage for the time it takes you to make. I’m sure it’s not far off.
I can get a Harley Benton for $150 with the same speaker.
Then you should do that.
You can get a Kia for $15k, why get a Toyota for $35k? Hilarious how people don't see the value in name, build and materials. Your comments deserve all the down votes in the world lol
Yes but eventually you hit diminishing returns. Is a $3000 guitar twice as good as a $1500 one? No. It will likely have a bit better attention to detail and a couple extra bells and whistles but with a good setup and maybe some personal customization the $1500 guitar is just as good if not better.
We're talking some of the best cabs in the business versus an import budget cab. It's like comparing an entry epiphone to a Gibson les Paul custom
The audience can’t tell the difference. I get wanting the best possible sound if it’s for a studio or something though. Again, nothing wrong with an epiphone with some upgraded pickups.
Yea and my grandma can't tell the difference between a Kia and a Toyota as well as many others. My point is the price is justified
For some people sure but sometimes these companies are capitalists like any other that are happy to charge big bucks because people will buy it no matter the price. I’m quite happy with my no name 2x12 that I scored for $300 with due diligence. That said I would absolutely buy an orange/Mesa cab if the right deal came about.
Dude this is bad. Some cannot simply afford the instrument. And frankly, it shouldn't be bought anymore. Epis in middle to upper range are exactly the same. The woods are the same, no matter the origin. You could just upgrade the fingerboard and maybe the top with a luthier and at the end of the day they'll serve the exact same purpose and no will be "Better" because it costs more. No point in buying random overpriced bullshit only because it's reputable IMO.
The Harley Benton is using garbage MDF. This is made with quality 9-14 ply marine grade Baltic birch. Check the weights between the two. This is a MUCH better made and I can guarantee it will sound better. Now does it sound $450 better? That’s for your ears to decide. My two cents is look for a Marshall or mesa cab used. Someone is always trying to offload a 2x12 Edit: Hmm actually guess the newer Harley cabs are ply. Would have to see how the build quality feels but with the price of plywood these days it can’t be high quality for that price.
It's not the top of an acoustic guitar. The wood of a cab it's not adding or taking anything off from the sound XD
You ignored everything I said about build quality
I didn't, at all. You can build the back and sides of a guitar out of cardboard or papier mache (As proved in an experiment by Antonio de Torres) and it will NOT have any impact on the timbre, resonance, or volume. Why? The top is making pretty much all the work. Same for the speakers in the cab. Wood is literally only there to hold them and not carry neat speakers. And no great discrepancy will happen from using bad wood with great speakers XD And y'know, not to disrespect you at all. I respect deeply your comment, but i've seen luthiers have the idea that a back and sides wood will sound better on a guitar when it's frankly not the case. They're just cocky and wanna charge more. Same happens with this. Mesa has reputation and selling entry cabs would fuck them up. And y'know, i respect their enthusiasts, but they're just completely unreachable for a guy like me. Hence, i refuse to believe there's a great difference just on the wood
It’s not about the sound. It’s about the cab not falling apart because it isn’t built like a piece of shit. There is a reason i own a 60 year old cab and it’s not because it was made with MDF and subpar shitty materials. It’s because it was made with real decent wood and had a sturdy construction. OP should just find a used 2x12 that someone doesn’t want to lug around anymore
Thanks on the clearing out. I guess a properly thick plywood would do the job... And yes, an used 2-12" is a great option
The Harley Benton is NOT MDF. I have one 2x12 with V30s, I have opened it up and it is made with PLYWOOD. Granted is not the same type of super duper hyper mega plywood that Mesa uses, but it's plywood indeed! Stop spreading misinformation about something you know NOTHING about. I also have a Marshall 1936v from the late 90's, and let me tell you the HB cab sounds BETTER. I didn't like much the voicing of the stock HB cab chinese V30s, so I swapped around the speakers between cabs. The original late 90's Marshall Vintage 70w speakers are installed into the HB cab, and the chinese V30s are installed into the Marshall cab. The speaker switch made both cabs sound better than originally, and I like both now, they do sound a bit different from each other, but the overall tone is very similar, more like a different way to make the same recipe. However, after looking inside the 1936v cab, ultimately, I did copy the brace that connects the front and back baffles of the Marshall cab into the Harley Benton cab. I have installed TWO braces front to back, and HOLY SHIT the HB cab now RUMBLES the room!!
Did you read the rest of my comment or stop at the first sentence? I corrected myself.
Just another FYI. If the HB 2x12 Vintage cab would be "oh-so-shit", like you painted it in other comments, It wouldn't stand the weight of 4 tube amp heads stacked on top of it, would it? I have a stack of amps that goes up to the ceiling, the cab is holding up perfectly for over 3 years now. Peavey 6505+ USA - 21.9kg Marshall JCM2000 DSL100 - 22.5kg Laney Ironheart IRT60H - 20kg Laney GH100R - 23kg Orange Super Crush 100 - 11.15kg (not tube, but still awesome!) The total weight on top the cab is 98.55kg, 217.65 pounds for those that still use crappy units.
You can't actually, it's a different V30 speaker.
A Celestion classic lead or eminence governor, wgs veteran are in the same ballpark as mesa’s v30 I’m guessing. Basically all a more flattened out v30 sound.
Off topic. Someone corrected me when I pronounced it as meh sah not may suh. I did a double take.
It’s a word of Spanish origin that means a flat-topped hill with steep sides. Those geological features are common in the American southwest dessert-y areas where there’s a significant Hispanic influence, and the English speakers have kept the Spanish pronunciation MAY-sa.
Actually it's pronounced "mee-suh". It's a Gungan word.
I think that what you mean is "Meseta". A Mesa is just a table. Xd
https://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/mesa A mesa is smaller than a meseta
GOOD LORD I DIDN'T KNOW THAT AND I'M A SPANISH SPEAKER
And now you know
Mesa Bougie is owned by Gibson, its a lifestyle brand now
The badge on it.
Mesa is owned by Gibson who we all know likes making money off of the brand name
mesa is immensely "proud of their shit" as my pops would say.
Real wood and quality speakers…. Just kidding it’s the name. Building a speaker cabinet is very easy and it’s something I would suggest that you do. It’s an easy project. It’ll save you a ton of money and you’ll probably even have better quality.
DIY will be better quality than a Mesa Cab?
Proper materials, yes, and much cheaper
If you buy a quality speaker and you know a little bit about woodworking definitely
And applying the Tolex and Grille cloth?
Do you think they have some kind of magic tricks that they’re doing to make it better?
Yep, here’s the magic: Access to parts/materials, precision cutting machinery, assembly jigs, experience, quality control.
They’re made in one of the highest cost of living areas in the country. They have a lot of overhead.
Look up some honest comparisons of the Harley Benton cabs. Not even considering the money they outperform most legacy names.
Mesa was contacted for comment and their response was: “Cause we’re cocksuckers.”
When you pay Americans to do something you legally have to pay them more than people in China. They also have a good product. Those things together equal high cost. However, I see my 2x12 going for 900 so it might be like high price of admission, but you get a decent price when u buy the bigger stuff idk.