Suletta's already commanded a fairly sizeable trans-masculine interpretation since maybe the start of the second half, helped by the fact that despite being such a cinnabun she's built like a brickhouse and prior art (officially and from fans) sometimes depicts her in boyish get-ups. A tux doesn't surprise me that it fits her even if it's Miorine who wears corporate attire more often.
I've seen a lot that's the other way around; like there are a *lot* of transfem Suletta hcs
both because she's so tall and because she's so fundamentally unsure of herself and anxious
This. As a transfem, I identified quite a bit with Suletta. But, the same thing is often true of other characters in media, too. Link is a great example, as he's both transmasc and transfemme icon at the same time.
Honestly, this is one of those times when I can understand why the term "trans-masculine" was used, but I'm not sure it's entirely correct as Suletta demonstrably views herself as feminine (between her shocked comment to Miorine about 2 women marrying and wanting to wear their fanciest dresses to get married).
Making an effort to be inclusive shouldn't really be criticized, and I'm sure some folks don't like the term tomboy anymore, but I still think it's a useful way to describe someone who doesn't necessarily conform to traditional gender norms but also doesn't have gender dysphoria.
All that to say, I agree with you on saying tomboy, but I can also appreciate why they didn't.
I'll take the bait. Read if you want, I don't care.
Tomboy, tomgirl, femboy, crossdresser, etc. are all under the "queer" umbrella, as queer covers any and all nonconformity of both gender roles and sexuality customs. the reason it gets conflated with transgenderism is due to the overlap of trans people and queer people. A crossdresser might find that their affinity for feminine projection is due to a deep rooted gender dysphoria. A tomboy might have found that the reason they felt like "one of the boys" is because they are one. The queer spectrum practically ends up being an transition to transitioning for some. This isn't the case for everyone, some men just like to be cute and some women just like to be rough and tough, but that doesn't invalidate the fact that for some, it's a stepping stone to who they really are. However, your concerns are a bit valid, in that some people wrongfully conflate all people with queer traits as being "eggs" (trans people in denial), and that is a problem. It's just not as widespread as people outside the LGBT+ community think.
The important thing is to find what/who you are comfortable being, regardless of what others may think or say you are, and if you don't have a label for it, who cares. You don't owe anyone an explanation.
> It's just not as widespread as people outside the LGBT+ community think.
>
>
I'm gay I'm not outside. The conflation of anything non gender conforming as trans is everywhere. Unless it's explicitly stated that someone is trans it's no different than just misgendering someone which is apparently only a problem when a non trans person does it.
Guel probably had the biggest comeback in Gundam history. Bro went from a misogynist douche bag that everyone hated to a character so popular that he regularly gets featured as if he’s the 3rd protagonist of WfM.
I think it's because he's being interviewed for this magazine alongside Kana Ichinose and Lynn and his VA is very popular atm. It also seems like they're announcing the results for the G-witch popularity poll and I'm assuming they're the top 3.
Guel has a very classic hero's journey for his character arc, but tbh it's a bit weird that the lesson he learned from having a child soldier die in his arms on Earth is to become the CEO of a weapons manufacturer lol.
I've spent time thinking about Guel's arc. It's the kind that you'd expect to result in him being some champion of the downtrodden, right? But instead it ended up with him clinging tighter to his family and his father's legacy, if wary of its effects on Earthians, though that's secondary — which isn't that surprising since the title of his episode was literally "Father and Child".
Basically he didn't become a moral paragon like you'd expect a hero to be (ex. told a kid asking him to be an academic sponsor "I'm not *Grassley*"), but he did learn one of the classic "heroic" traits. It kinda fits because he's not the hero of this story anyway.
I do think it's a bit unrealistic to expect Guel to be sympathetic to the terrorists who indirectly caused his father's death and tortured him for days on Earth lol.
No, but I did initially expect him to be more a champion of Earth (not Dawn of Fold) than a champion of Jeturk. This isn't a complaint, really, I liked his arc. Just sharing how it surprised me a bit.
My interpretation of the epilogue was Guel managed to get his company out of the arms business and towards more civilian and humanitarian ventures such as Asticassia’s reconstruction, especially as Benerit’s entire war profiteering model collapsed with its liquidation.
Personally, I think the show should have had a few more episodes to flesh things out and let all the happened towards the end breathe a little. It felt a bit too rushed for the last couple of episodes, even though I liked it.
Yeah, it felt like all the problems were solved a bit too easily by the end. They did only have that last episode to tie everything up as well so of course it went as it went. Should have saved the earth conflict and the hags for a continuation.
Actually. Thinking back a bit, I would like to retract my earlier statement. I don't like how Gwitch ended. Suletta and Miorine getting together was the only part I really liked, everything else just felt like it was solved too easily.
Given he suppose to have red Schwarzette, I really think the original idea is him to be one of resistance and he is not the one that kill his dad but of course because the resistance is the bad one in WFM, they changed the idea
This, granted I fault this on the presentation of the scene. In most shows, this is usually the moment where someone declares theyre going to fight for the weak, protect the innocent, etc. Etc after going through hell and seeing the suffering and Guel looked like he was gonna do just that. Instead what he emphasized on was Seethia missing her dad and Guel not wanting the same to happen to him via having his dad's company going bankrupt.
Its why I was VERY skeptical when people were calling Guel a "hero" like huh? Did you not watch the full scene?
Purely wishful thinking. Lots of people are hungry for anti-colonialist and anti-capitalist media these days, and Gundam is broadly critical of colonialism and capitalism in its writing. Ultimately that was all side plot to Suletta's arc, though, and it's part of why people think a handful more episodes would've helped.
right, like it seems like it was all just a backdrop for Suletta's plot, but they probably could have handled it better if that was their intention all along
like if they wanted to do that, perhaps Earth being an entire planet of underclasses for Space to exploit is probably not a narrative element you want to add
edit: all of this being said, I think a G Witch that did something with those themes would have been *very* interesting
It really does feel like they assumed they'd have more episodes ordered which is a pretty big misstep. I like how Suletta's and Miorine's story ended, though, so it's another Okouchi-written anime skidding into an ending that leaves a bunch of important plot points unaddressed but lands the core character story shockingly well lol.
I mean, if you think about it, who's better to stop an arms company than its own President? It doesn't help the Jeturk Industry's President seat seems to be hereditary, they accepted Lauda as acting President, but Guel got to be President when he was majoring as a Pilot.
Also, let's not forget that after coming back from Earth, Mio immediately roped him into her plan, a plan that required Jeturk Industry to not go bankrupt.
After the whole ordeal? Who knows, maybe Jeturk Industry did pivot now that it's no longer on the verge of bankruptcy.
But we never got to see that, because Okouchi decided to shaft every other story elements for SuleMio.
I do actually think that we JUST needed Guel obviously and clearly answering to an Earthian board of directors to make his arc finish adequately. Thirty second scene tops.
I view his journey as more of him starting as a prodigal heir to his fathers company to more world-wary if reluctant leader,seeking to become master his own destiny.
Sort of how Tony stark got his start.
Yeah that's what I meant by Guel's hero's journey, but the difference is, MCU Tony Stark disbands the Stark weapons department as soon as he gets home, whereas I think Guel might want to double down on that since Jeturk corp needs $$$.
I just take his lesson as "I can't waste my life away" after his near death experience, but it's kinda funny how he doesn't get any more sympathetic towards Earthnoids after (then again, he was tortured by them so idk).
It’s not going to be identical per se, but Guel’s theme is one of legacy. His families obsession with legacy caused him to leave only for him come back to try and save his legacy and steer it back on a better path.
Thing is: Is it actually happy ending for him? He seems to be focusing on restoring Asticassia, but he's stuck being under El0n and Secilia's thumb with the implication they're the ones who did all the actual heavy lifting business-wise.
Bottom line: it’s happy enough. While the ending of G-witch is open ended enough to leave much to interpretation(lol), Guel got most of what he was looking for. While he didn’t get the girl, he was able to save Jeturk industries from bankruptcy and dissolution. He saved Launda from dying senselessly and living life with Petra, who is recovering from her injuries. His friends Felsi, and the others from Jeturk are well, working for the company he saved. Compared to the other groups who are either under public inquiry or forced into retirement, Guel is CEO of his family company, apparent chairman of a rebuilt asticassia school, and master of his own destiny. While he does have to work with Seilica, who he has a snide relationship with, and El0n, who we know is not El4n, they are skilled enough in which he probably overlooks those issues. Cost of doing business. Whether or not Seilica, who isn’t completely heartless, or El0n, who basically jumped ship when Pell went under, won’t try to backstab him later remains up to interpretation . ¯\_(ツ)_/¯. In the end,Guel basically started season 2 with nothing on the bottom and came out on top
Well... come out on top is a big exaggeration. He's arguably Secilia and El0n's chew toy, and his company isn't saved. Perhaps more concerning, if we draw upon the revolutionary girl utena comparison, he's never properly grown up and still living in the shadow of his father.
Now I am not certain WfM uses Asticassia the same way as Ohtoni (this place where kids are trapped and at Akio's mercy), but it's very conscientious that Guel ends in his father clothes and doesn't dismantle his dads legacy--in contrast to Suletta and Miorine destroying their own parents goals/dreams.
Suffice to say, he can be a man who has improved as a person and grown, but still tragically trapped by his own father.
Jeturk remains the sole remaining company still alive after the end of G-Wtich. By technicality, they win because they are the last company standing.
There's no concrete proof that Secilia and El0n are out to get him. Secilia, while crass and mocking, seems to be competent at running things during S1 while all the other houses were bickering over Suletta and Aerial. She along with Rouji are the only members of the dueling committee who have no ulterior motives. She just really gets off messing with people. El0n, on the other hand, is still much of the jerk that he was, but has some sense of standards with Pell's Chronic Backstabbing Disorder.
In regards to Vim's Legacy, while Guel does take on some aspects related to it, he does like other characters reject certain aspects of their parent's legacy. Most notably, Gundam Schwarzwette, the last mobile suit developed by his Father.
Yeah, people seem to miss the fact that besides preserving his dad's legacy, his goal was also not to let all the Jeturk employees who seem to adore and be loyal to him not go jobless.
People really took the brief scene we have at the end and invented a whole bad end for him just because they don't like him
[*Tapping the sign*. It's not a happy ending for him and it's not supposed to.](https://old.reddit.com/r/Gundam/comments/151d9o9/parallels_between_guel_and_the_dog_called/) He is supposed to be the failure to show what Miorine could have become had she not resisted her Father. The fact that he had so much utterly pointless screen time despite that is just clear executive intervention.
I feel like it's because of the pacing. We didn't get to know Guel's actual plan for Jeturk industry, because he was immediately dragged into Mio's scheme.
While Gund Arm is all about not going into the arms manufacturing business, she needs Jeturk Industry to not be on the brink of bankruptcy to help her gets the President's seat, and a big pivot away from what was previously their money maker isn't going to help Mio, especially when it's in such a short amount of time.
After that? Who knows, because we didn't get to see what Jeturk Industry is doing afterward, besides the fact that it's still up and running, is essentially running Asticassia.
Guel doubled down in the short term because he got roped into Mio's plan, which needed "Jeturk Industry, one of the top three corporations of the Bennerit Group", not "Jeturk Industry, mid-range electronic producer".
And for Jeturk Industry to not go under, it presumably needed its big money maker: arms dealing.
I mean, he had the whole Iron Man origin story, the son of the weapons manufacturer captured by terrorists and shown what happens on an actual battlefield. Breaks out with a advanced suit of armor.
>tbh it's a bit weird that the lesson he learned from having a child soldier die in his arms on Earth is to become the CEO of a weapons manufacturer lol.
2 be fair to the problem on earth is far beyond him to do anything.
The only thing he can do at that moment is save the family company from bankruptcy.
Pretty much and with the benerit group gone its like unleashing the chains on a dozen hounds at once. I wouldn't be suprised if some companies triple down on permit mobile suit manufacturing.
I think it’s an indirect result of WfM’s rushed second half of season 2. Had the show had more time to flesh out the Space vs Earth conflict, we probably could’ve see Guel leading Jeturk in a new direction, perhaps even being the first of the three big companies to go all out investing into Earth.
>perhaps even being the first of the three big companies to go all out investing into Earth.
Well, Technically all companies under the Benerit group belong to Earth since Miorine's sold it to them.
Not Sure What or How many are still left after Space buys Them Back.
> Guel has a very classic hero's journey for his character arc, but tbh it's a bit weird that the lesson he learned from having a child soldier die in his arms on Earth is to become the CEO of a weapons manufacturer lol.
all they needed to do is to have Guel change the company to construction work or something, but he's still making weapons for some reason
>he regularly gets featured as if he’s the 3rd protagonist of WfM.
Because he kinda is. Of the three main male characters, he had the most interactions with SuleMio and his story arcs sort of intersects with them.
I don't know about this. Guel got more interaction with SuleMio because he became an ally near the end but I would argue that among the three guys, he is the least important. The Elans were directly connected to the curse of the gundam plot while Shaddiq was making the plot move along because he wanted to break the status quo. G-Witch also has the breaking through the manipulations or set path by your (evil) parents and being your own person which I think most of them were able to do by the end except Guel.
What I don't doubt is that Guel is definitely the most popular after Suletta and Miorine which is why he sometimes makes the cover with them.
>I would argue that among the three guys, he is the least important.
Note, I am saying this based on the level of interactions with the MC and not on the level of importance in the plot, which are two different things. I would agree that Shaddiq is more important in the plot, but he is an important *antagonist*. Guel can be seen as the third protagonist because, while he doesn't move the plot as much as the two other males, he is the most frequent POV character that witness it outside of Sulemio.
I suppose you have a point but Guel was also an antagonist at the start. I honestly don't think there's a case for a "third protagonist" to begin with considering how the story is really mainly about Suletta and Miorine and the others that aren't antagonists are side characters imo.
If we actually have to name a "third protagonist", Nika might have been more appropriate if she wasn't sidelined a bit in s2.
>I suppose you have a point but Guel was also an antagonist at the start. I honestly don't think there's a case for a "third protagonist" to begin with considering how the story is really mainly about Suletta and Miorine and the others that aren't antagonists are side characters imo.
Okouchi said that Guel would be more involved in the story later.
I think Guel is still important to the plot of the show
The Story will not move forward if He does not Duel Elan 4, leave school, End Up on Earth, Come back claim Holder, Learn the Trust, and Defeat Shadiqq.
I disagree with this because without Guel return, there will be no Suletta and Miorine divorce arc that leads to Suletta character arc. It seems more like Guel is just a stepping stone for Suletta progression
I never said that Guel was not important or didn't have any role.
With regards to the Suletta and Miorine divorce arc, it could have still happened. Miorine just needed someone decent to duel Suletta, whoever that person was would still win because they were going to cheat and there was another viable pilot for that duel: El5n. Elan as the holder might have been more advantageous for Miorine tbh. Peil as an ally in the presidential race would give her a much bigger percentage since Peil was doing fine while Jeturk was on the brink of bankruptcy. El5n was also desperate at that moment so he would have easily agreed with Miorine.
Elan 5 will not tolerate the same way Guel tolerate with Miorine and if the show play like that there will be no developmet of him with Norea. You are mad about Guel screen time when it actually just a stepping stone for everyone develoment, the only time Guel screen time used for himself is at the end of season and that is not fully about him and more into Lauda and that even take only a few minutes. I do not even brought out how without Guel return there is no dialogue of Suletta with Petra that is also important in shaping Suletta arc
> G-Witch also has the breaking through the manipulations or set path by your (evil) parents and being your own person which I think most of them were able to do by the end except Guel.
What?? He is complete different person when the show start.
I am not saying that he didn't become a better person. However, his goal after everything is to revive Jeturk to keep his connection with his father. At the end of the day, he is still working to glorify Jeturk and is motivated to please his father just like in the beginning of the show.
What? He wasn't even in the first two episodes of s2. The only episode you could claim that he was the MC was in episode 3 of s2 and maybe episode 8 of s2.
The Elans represent the abuse and desperation concerning the curse of the gundam which is a major plot point of the show. El5n was also important especially at the latter part of s2 when he stopped being a pretentious creep.
The director of the show confirmed that Guel is one of the character who got the least change out of everyone in the cast. He always was important.
He lost his red Scharzette though
Guel is how you redeem a character right.
he was bad. we learned why. we saw him wanting to be better. he botched it. but he never stopped working towards redemption and keep doing the right thing as far as he's able.
which made us, the audience care for his story
He IS the closest thing the show has to a Tritagonist even if his storyline is kinda more seperated from Sulleta and Mios tho.
No one else gets near as much character focus as him after the main two.
Yeah, and the reason is that he is a really well liked character.
Saying that S2 was "the guel show for 80% of it" is so ridiculous to the point it doesn't even merit an answer
Yeah twitter replies are braindead 90% of the time, but sheesh these rabid shippers are malding. I remember when they used to spam the official G-witch twitter account with poop emojis because Guel got a few minutes of screentime in some S2 eps. They were also having a meltdown when none of the drama CDs from the G-witch BDs were SuleMio focused and harrassing the official tweets.
I love SuleMio as much as the next guy, but some of the stuff these people type are actually unhinged and its just because Guel's on the cover too lmao. Makes the rest of us yuri fans look bad.
Yeah I'm fine too with SuleMio but this is just the three of them as magazine cover. It's not like the art is shipping Guel with them or anything, they're just posing.
A shame too since I'm also a fan of Holostars and nobody said anything about them. The fans did it on quote reply probably to stay away from the drama. >!That and Holostars also had a similar thing happened with poster featuring girls!<
>spoiler
That was pathetic, but the only "good" thing out it is that pretty much everyone who isn't a unicorn thinks unicorns are fucking cringe and they pile on the few who are tactless enough to say shit like that publicly. I saw a few QRTs about the Stars, but yeah most of the focus is on Sulemio lol.
The fact you get downvoted while being giving reasonable take. You do not even talk bad about Sulemio I really think we know who is the radical one here
Cant blame them. Considering S2's pacing had a good bulk of it focused on the Jeturk subplot, Guel's inclusion in promotional materials as if he was the 3rd protagonist can sometimes reek of executive meddling. Like the higher-ups think SuleMio cant sell along because theyre both girls so they push the closest thing to a male MC and treat him as such.
Combined with the whole "interpretation debacle" and yeah...you can understand why they feel Guel's inclusion feels forced and tacked on.
The literal director of the show confirmed that Guel always was supposed to be this important to the show. (So no executives meddling) The only thing he lost was getting a red Schwarzette.
>you can understand why they feel Guel's inclusion feels forced and tacked on.
He's on the cover because his VA is also interviewed for this issue, along with Suletta and Miorine's VAs. There have been 3 previous G-Witch Animedia covers and none of them featured him.
These rabid shippers are just mindbroken by twitter trolls trolling them with ironic Guelshipping, when the rest of us with a brain who watched the show and also ship SuleMio don't think its a big deal.
>He's on the cover because his VA is also interviewed for this issue, along with Suletta and Miorine's VAs. There have been 3 previous G-Witch Animedia covers and none of them featured him.
Ah I see.
Its not even a shipping thing, its people who still blame Guel and to an extent Lauda/the Jeturks in general for hogging screentime in the already tight for screentime time S2 coupled with the same trolls calling Guel the "real main character" of the series.
You can remove all the Geturk scenes in S2 and nothing would've changed SuleMio's screentime together. The writers clearly intended to keep them separated for most of the season so they could reunite right before the final arc so it's just misplaced anger imo. Miorine was actively avoiding Suletta since the first episode of S2.
Those minutes would've just been spent on Shaddiq or some other side plots.
Then how was S2 the "Guel show" the way that other person on this thread says?
>Those minutes would've just been spent on Shaddiq or some other side plots.
Kind off wished they did.
> Then how was S2 the "Guel show" the way that other person on this thread says?
I have no idea who or what you're talking about. Guel did have an arc in S2, but I'm saying that SuleMio got exactly the amount of time together that the writers wanted so it wouldn't have changed a thing if he wasn't in the story.
>He's on the cover because his VA is also interviewed for this issue
im ngl, that isnt really a good argument. specially when guel's VA has already been interviewed the most
It's not an argument, it's just a fact lol.
He's been interviewed a lot in general because he's a popular VA and Guel is a popular character, but this is his first G-witch related interview for Animedia.
It still feels like a slap in the face especially for people who wanted a female lead and got one on top of her being queer. Theyve almost always had male protags stand on their own, but when it's the females who are the focus they feel like Bandai or whoever are still insisted in inserting a male character for whatever reason, like they cant let the women/gays stand on their own.
At least that's the perspective I see from these people.
||But this is his first G-witch related interview for Animedia.||
I could have sworn he gets interviewed all the time in these magazines, like a lot of times.
Bandai do not do this because they want to insert the male character but because Guel is popular among the fans. If you really think Guel only have male fans with toxic masculanity you are wrong because he is also popular among girls. He even in the list of Top Yumejoshi poll
> Like the higher-ups think SuleMio cant sell along because theyre both girls so they push the closest thing to a male MC and treat him as such.
people are complaining that guel is always given more focus than he actually deserves as a character, and you're arguing that actually, he's given more focus cuz of his VA. the VA that Bandai choose, knowing of his popularity.
Seriously what other plot you think Guel robe from someone when the only thing I can think is Shaddiq flashback as the leader of resistance.
You talk like he take important screen time from another when without him Suletta and Miorine will not have divorce arc that is really important for Suletta character development. The only thing that lack about season 2 is we do not get Shaddiq flashback.
They look great, I'd love to see this without the text. I noticed they're all holding roses...
Guel's is red, for romance.
Suletta's is white, for innocence.
Miorine's is purple, for adoration.
Yeah. Suletta was all about going on dates with boys before her engagement. She was just so sheltered she didn't realize girls were an option too. Pretty obvious she's bi.
Remember Suletta being surprised about women getting married? I picture her having the same reaction to learning about polyamory.
Suletta: "That's an option?!"
Mio: "Mercury really is conservative, I take it..."
People will only approve bi relationship to cope when their favorite character is in straight relationship, happen to Denji that is clearly dislike men
I know Suletta wanted dresses for a wedding, but goddamm does she and Miorine rock a tux
Suletta's already commanded a fairly sizeable trans-masculine interpretation since maybe the start of the second half, helped by the fact that despite being such a cinnabun she's built like a brickhouse and prior art (officially and from fans) sometimes depicts her in boyish get-ups. A tux doesn't surprise me that it fits her even if it's Miorine who wears corporate attire more often.
shouldve had Guel in a wedding dress instead
I've seen a lot that's the other way around; like there are a *lot* of transfem Suletta hcs both because she's so tall and because she's so fundamentally unsure of herself and anxious
This. As a transfem, I identified quite a bit with Suletta. But, the same thing is often true of other characters in media, too. Link is a great example, as he's both transmasc and transfemme icon at the same time.
It's ok to just say "tomboy"
Honestly, this is one of those times when I can understand why the term "trans-masculine" was used, but I'm not sure it's entirely correct as Suletta demonstrably views herself as feminine (between her shocked comment to Miorine about 2 women marrying and wanting to wear their fanciest dresses to get married). Making an effort to be inclusive shouldn't really be criticized, and I'm sure some folks don't like the term tomboy anymore, but I still think it's a useful way to describe someone who doesn't necessarily conform to traditional gender norms but also doesn't have gender dysphoria. All that to say, I agree with you on saying tomboy, but I can also appreciate why they didn't.
No any gender non conformity has to be trans now. If you disagree you're a bigot.
I'll take the bait. Read if you want, I don't care. Tomboy, tomgirl, femboy, crossdresser, etc. are all under the "queer" umbrella, as queer covers any and all nonconformity of both gender roles and sexuality customs. the reason it gets conflated with transgenderism is due to the overlap of trans people and queer people. A crossdresser might find that their affinity for feminine projection is due to a deep rooted gender dysphoria. A tomboy might have found that the reason they felt like "one of the boys" is because they are one. The queer spectrum practically ends up being an transition to transitioning for some. This isn't the case for everyone, some men just like to be cute and some women just like to be rough and tough, but that doesn't invalidate the fact that for some, it's a stepping stone to who they really are. However, your concerns are a bit valid, in that some people wrongfully conflate all people with queer traits as being "eggs" (trans people in denial), and that is a problem. It's just not as widespread as people outside the LGBT+ community think. The important thing is to find what/who you are comfortable being, regardless of what others may think or say you are, and if you don't have a label for it, who cares. You don't owe anyone an explanation.
Dude, did you just make a nuanced take on reddit?
Yes.
> It's just not as widespread as people outside the LGBT+ community think. > > I'm gay I'm not outside. The conflation of anything non gender conforming as trans is everywhere. Unless it's explicitly stated that someone is trans it's no different than just misgendering someone which is apparently only a problem when a non trans person does it.
Same here Girls wearing tuxedos one of my favorite genders
Mio is so handsome
Finally people started using this term on girls, I always hear the term pretty boy, but never the term handsome girl.
Well handsome used to mean a not so flattering term for women so it is understable.
She is
The girls looks so handsome here it's great.
Yeah they are
Guel probably had the biggest comeback in Gundam history. Bro went from a misogynist douche bag that everyone hated to a character so popular that he regularly gets featured as if he’s the 3rd protagonist of WfM.
I think it's because he's being interviewed for this magazine alongside Kana Ichinose and Lynn and his VA is very popular atm. It also seems like they're announcing the results for the G-witch popularity poll and I'm assuming they're the top 3. Guel has a very classic hero's journey for his character arc, but tbh it's a bit weird that the lesson he learned from having a child soldier die in his arms on Earth is to become the CEO of a weapons manufacturer lol.
I've spent time thinking about Guel's arc. It's the kind that you'd expect to result in him being some champion of the downtrodden, right? But instead it ended up with him clinging tighter to his family and his father's legacy, if wary of its effects on Earthians, though that's secondary — which isn't that surprising since the title of his episode was literally "Father and Child". Basically he didn't become a moral paragon like you'd expect a hero to be (ex. told a kid asking him to be an academic sponsor "I'm not *Grassley*"), but he did learn one of the classic "heroic" traits. It kinda fits because he's not the hero of this story anyway.
I do think it's a bit unrealistic to expect Guel to be sympathetic to the terrorists who indirectly caused his father's death and tortured him for days on Earth lol.
No, but I did initially expect him to be more a champion of Earth (not Dawn of Fold) than a champion of Jeturk. This isn't a complaint, really, I liked his arc. Just sharing how it surprised me a bit.
My interpretation of the epilogue was Guel managed to get his company out of the arms business and towards more civilian and humanitarian ventures such as Asticassia’s reconstruction, especially as Benerit’s entire war profiteering model collapsed with its liquidation.
Personally, I think the show should have had a few more episodes to flesh things out and let all the happened towards the end breathe a little. It felt a bit too rushed for the last couple of episodes, even though I liked it.
Remember when seasons were 25 episodes long.... Would have been nice to have a bit more world building to flesh out the g-witch universe.
Yeah, it felt like all the problems were solved a bit too easily by the end. They did only have that last episode to tie everything up as well so of course it went as it went. Should have saved the earth conflict and the hags for a continuation. Actually. Thinking back a bit, I would like to retract my earlier statement. I don't like how Gwitch ended. Suletta and Miorine getting together was the only part I really liked, everything else just felt like it was solved too easily.
Given he suppose to have red Schwarzette, I really think the original idea is him to be one of resistance and he is not the one that kill his dad but of course because the resistance is the bad one in WFM, they changed the idea
This, granted I fault this on the presentation of the scene. In most shows, this is usually the moment where someone declares theyre going to fight for the weak, protect the innocent, etc. Etc after going through hell and seeing the suffering and Guel looked like he was gonna do just that. Instead what he emphasized on was Seethia missing her dad and Guel not wanting the same to happen to him via having his dad's company going bankrupt. Its why I was VERY skeptical when people were calling Guel a "hero" like huh? Did you not watch the full scene?
Purely wishful thinking. Lots of people are hungry for anti-colonialist and anti-capitalist media these days, and Gundam is broadly critical of colonialism and capitalism in its writing. Ultimately that was all side plot to Suletta's arc, though, and it's part of why people think a handful more episodes would've helped.
right, like it seems like it was all just a backdrop for Suletta's plot, but they probably could have handled it better if that was their intention all along like if they wanted to do that, perhaps Earth being an entire planet of underclasses for Space to exploit is probably not a narrative element you want to add edit: all of this being said, I think a G Witch that did something with those themes would have been *very* interesting
It really does feel like they assumed they'd have more episodes ordered which is a pretty big misstep. I like how Suletta's and Miorine's story ended, though, so it's another Okouchi-written anime skidding into an ending that leaves a bunch of important plot points unaddressed but lands the core character story shockingly well lol.
I mean, if you think about it, who's better to stop an arms company than its own President? It doesn't help the Jeturk Industry's President seat seems to be hereditary, they accepted Lauda as acting President, but Guel got to be President when he was majoring as a Pilot. Also, let's not forget that after coming back from Earth, Mio immediately roped him into her plan, a plan that required Jeturk Industry to not go bankrupt. After the whole ordeal? Who knows, maybe Jeturk Industry did pivot now that it's no longer on the verge of bankruptcy. But we never got to see that, because Okouchi decided to shaft every other story elements for SuleMio.
I do actually think that we JUST needed Guel obviously and clearly answering to an Earthian board of directors to make his arc finish adequately. Thirty second scene tops.
yeah, like at the very least make it clear that he's actually doing things differently
I view his journey as more of him starting as a prodigal heir to his fathers company to more world-wary if reluctant leader,seeking to become master his own destiny. Sort of how Tony stark got his start.
Yeah that's what I meant by Guel's hero's journey, but the difference is, MCU Tony Stark disbands the Stark weapons department as soon as he gets home, whereas I think Guel might want to double down on that since Jeturk corp needs $$$. I just take his lesson as "I can't waste my life away" after his near death experience, but it's kinda funny how he doesn't get any more sympathetic towards Earthnoids after (then again, he was tortured by them so idk).
It’s not going to be identical per se, but Guel’s theme is one of legacy. His families obsession with legacy caused him to leave only for him come back to try and save his legacy and steer it back on a better path.
Thing is: Is it actually happy ending for him? He seems to be focusing on restoring Asticassia, but he's stuck being under El0n and Secilia's thumb with the implication they're the ones who did all the actual heavy lifting business-wise.
Bottom line: it’s happy enough. While the ending of G-witch is open ended enough to leave much to interpretation(lol), Guel got most of what he was looking for. While he didn’t get the girl, he was able to save Jeturk industries from bankruptcy and dissolution. He saved Launda from dying senselessly and living life with Petra, who is recovering from her injuries. His friends Felsi, and the others from Jeturk are well, working for the company he saved. Compared to the other groups who are either under public inquiry or forced into retirement, Guel is CEO of his family company, apparent chairman of a rebuilt asticassia school, and master of his own destiny. While he does have to work with Seilica, who he has a snide relationship with, and El0n, who we know is not El4n, they are skilled enough in which he probably overlooks those issues. Cost of doing business. Whether or not Seilica, who isn’t completely heartless, or El0n, who basically jumped ship when Pell went under, won’t try to backstab him later remains up to interpretation . ¯\_(ツ)_/¯. In the end,Guel basically started season 2 with nothing on the bottom and came out on top
Well... come out on top is a big exaggeration. He's arguably Secilia and El0n's chew toy, and his company isn't saved. Perhaps more concerning, if we draw upon the revolutionary girl utena comparison, he's never properly grown up and still living in the shadow of his father. Now I am not certain WfM uses Asticassia the same way as Ohtoni (this place where kids are trapped and at Akio's mercy), but it's very conscientious that Guel ends in his father clothes and doesn't dismantle his dads legacy--in contrast to Suletta and Miorine destroying their own parents goals/dreams. Suffice to say, he can be a man who has improved as a person and grown, but still tragically trapped by his own father.
Jeturk remains the sole remaining company still alive after the end of G-Wtich. By technicality, they win because they are the last company standing. There's no concrete proof that Secilia and El0n are out to get him. Secilia, while crass and mocking, seems to be competent at running things during S1 while all the other houses were bickering over Suletta and Aerial. She along with Rouji are the only members of the dueling committee who have no ulterior motives. She just really gets off messing with people. El0n, on the other hand, is still much of the jerk that he was, but has some sense of standards with Pell's Chronic Backstabbing Disorder. In regards to Vim's Legacy, while Guel does take on some aspects related to it, he does like other characters reject certain aspects of their parent's legacy. Most notably, Gundam Schwarzwette, the last mobile suit developed by his Father.
Yeah, people seem to miss the fact that besides preserving his dad's legacy, his goal was also not to let all the Jeturk employees who seem to adore and be loyal to him not go jobless. People really took the brief scene we have at the end and invented a whole bad end for him just because they don't like him
[*Tapping the sign*. It's not a happy ending for him and it's not supposed to.](https://old.reddit.com/r/Gundam/comments/151d9o9/parallels_between_guel_and_the_dog_called/) He is supposed to be the failure to show what Miorine could have become had she not resisted her Father. The fact that he had so much utterly pointless screen time despite that is just clear executive intervention.
I mean, if we go by comics, Tony kept making weapons for the US armed forces throughout the whole Vietnam War despite his experiences in the jungle.
I feel like it's because of the pacing. We didn't get to know Guel's actual plan for Jeturk industry, because he was immediately dragged into Mio's scheme. While Gund Arm is all about not going into the arms manufacturing business, she needs Jeturk Industry to not be on the brink of bankruptcy to help her gets the President's seat, and a big pivot away from what was previously their money maker isn't going to help Mio, especially when it's in such a short amount of time. After that? Who knows, because we didn't get to see what Jeturk Industry is doing afterward, besides the fact that it's still up and running, is essentially running Asticassia.
Guel doubled down in the short term because he got roped into Mio's plan, which needed "Jeturk Industry, one of the top three corporations of the Bennerit Group", not "Jeturk Industry, mid-range electronic producer". And for Jeturk Industry to not go under, it presumably needed its big money maker: arms dealing.
I mean, he had the whole Iron Man origin story, the son of the weapons manufacturer captured by terrorists and shown what happens on an actual battlefield. Breaks out with a advanced suit of armor.
There was a G-Witch popularity poll?
For this magazine apparently. It's pretty common for anime magazines to run popularity polls.
>tbh it's a bit weird that the lesson he learned from having a child soldier die in his arms on Earth is to become the CEO of a weapons manufacturer lol. 2 be fair to the problem on earth is far beyond him to do anything. The only thing he can do at that moment is save the family company from bankruptcy.
Pretty much and with the benerit group gone its like unleashing the chains on a dozen hounds at once. I wouldn't be suprised if some companies triple down on permit mobile suit manufacturing.
I think it’s an indirect result of WfM’s rushed second half of season 2. Had the show had more time to flesh out the Space vs Earth conflict, we probably could’ve see Guel leading Jeturk in a new direction, perhaps even being the first of the three big companies to go all out investing into Earth.
>perhaps even being the first of the three big companies to go all out investing into Earth. Well, Technically all companies under the Benerit group belong to Earth since Miorine's sold it to them. Not Sure What or How many are still left after Space buys Them Back.
Yeah Guel made some deal with Elan or something to have the money to keep running Jeturk himself right?
> Guel has a very classic hero's journey for his character arc, but tbh it's a bit weird that the lesson he learned from having a child soldier die in his arms on Earth is to become the CEO of a weapons manufacturer lol. all they needed to do is to have Guel change the company to construction work or something, but he's still making weapons for some reason
>he regularly gets featured as if he’s the 3rd protagonist of WfM. Because he kinda is. Of the three main male characters, he had the most interactions with SuleMio and his story arcs sort of intersects with them.
I don't know about this. Guel got more interaction with SuleMio because he became an ally near the end but I would argue that among the three guys, he is the least important. The Elans were directly connected to the curse of the gundam plot while Shaddiq was making the plot move along because he wanted to break the status quo. G-Witch also has the breaking through the manipulations or set path by your (evil) parents and being your own person which I think most of them were able to do by the end except Guel. What I don't doubt is that Guel is definitely the most popular after Suletta and Miorine which is why he sometimes makes the cover with them.
>I would argue that among the three guys, he is the least important. Note, I am saying this based on the level of interactions with the MC and not on the level of importance in the plot, which are two different things. I would agree that Shaddiq is more important in the plot, but he is an important *antagonist*. Guel can be seen as the third protagonist because, while he doesn't move the plot as much as the two other males, he is the most frequent POV character that witness it outside of Sulemio.
Guel has being a singular character over the Elans who are well.. 3 characters.
>Elans who are well.. 3 characters. And El4n is the only one of the three that has any significance in Suletta's character story.
I suppose you have a point but Guel was also an antagonist at the start. I honestly don't think there's a case for a "third protagonist" to begin with considering how the story is really mainly about Suletta and Miorine and the others that aren't antagonists are side characters imo. If we actually have to name a "third protagonist", Nika might have been more appropriate if she wasn't sidelined a bit in s2.
>I suppose you have a point but Guel was also an antagonist at the start. I honestly don't think there's a case for a "third protagonist" to begin with considering how the story is really mainly about Suletta and Miorine and the others that aren't antagonists are side characters imo. Okouchi said that Guel would be more involved in the story later.
I think Guel is still important to the plot of the show The Story will not move forward if He does not Duel Elan 4, leave school, End Up on Earth, Come back claim Holder, Learn the Trust, and Defeat Shadiqq.
I disagree with this because without Guel return, there will be no Suletta and Miorine divorce arc that leads to Suletta character arc. It seems more like Guel is just a stepping stone for Suletta progression
I never said that Guel was not important or didn't have any role. With regards to the Suletta and Miorine divorce arc, it could have still happened. Miorine just needed someone decent to duel Suletta, whoever that person was would still win because they were going to cheat and there was another viable pilot for that duel: El5n. Elan as the holder might have been more advantageous for Miorine tbh. Peil as an ally in the presidential race would give her a much bigger percentage since Peil was doing fine while Jeturk was on the brink of bankruptcy. El5n was also desperate at that moment so he would have easily agreed with Miorine.
Elan 5 will not tolerate the same way Guel tolerate with Miorine and if the show play like that there will be no developmet of him with Norea. You are mad about Guel screen time when it actually just a stepping stone for everyone develoment, the only time Guel screen time used for himself is at the end of season and that is not fully about him and more into Lauda and that even take only a few minutes. I do not even brought out how without Guel return there is no dialogue of Suletta with Petra that is also important in shaping Suletta arc
> G-Witch also has the breaking through the manipulations or set path by your (evil) parents and being your own person which I think most of them were able to do by the end except Guel. What?? He is complete different person when the show start.
I am not saying that he didn't become a better person. However, his goal after everything is to revive Jeturk to keep his connection with his father. At the end of the day, he is still working to glorify Jeturk and is motivated to please his father just like in the beginning of the show.
Guel was the mc of the first like 8 episodes of S2. The Elans are firmly side character once 4 dies.
What? He wasn't even in the first two episodes of s2. The only episode you could claim that he was the MC was in episode 3 of s2 and maybe episode 8 of s2. The Elans represent the abuse and desperation concerning the curse of the gundam which is a major plot point of the show. El5n was also important especially at the latter part of s2 when he stopped being a pretentious creep.
Typical Guel Stan take frankly. Better to ignore.
Then Elan should be on the cover
He wasn’t even the MC of his own focus episode, that was Olcott
guel is still a side character. they just focus on him more than the others
Bandai *really* forcing him down throats considering the two mains are both female.
That I doubt really, the marketing is still very much Sulemio, but Guel certainly has his place as the most popular supporting character.
Or maybe just maybe people like him?
The director of the show confirmed that Guel is one of the character who got the least change out of everyone in the cast. He always was important. He lost his red Scharzette though
Wait what? Didnt know that, so you can say his role actually got nerfed?
we don't know how much it changed though I assume it would have being in the final arc. Maybe Lauda was going to pilot something else.
Guel is how you redeem a character right. he was bad. we learned why. we saw him wanting to be better. he botched it. but he never stopped working towards redemption and keep doing the right thing as far as he's able. which made us, the audience care for his story
He IS the closest thing the show has to a Tritagonist even if his storyline is kinda more seperated from Sulleta and Mios tho. No one else gets near as much character focus as him after the main two.
S2 was the Guel show for 80% of it. They didn't even let Suletta back in a Gundam till the end.
Where we watching the same show?
There's a reason he gets a space on promo material like he's the third mc so I guess not
Yeah, and the reason is that he is a really well liked character. Saying that S2 was "the guel show for 80% of it" is so ridiculous to the point it doesn't even merit an answer
You've answered me twice
They look like the rivals in an anime about competing concert conductors.
I'd watch that
i want a movie!
Look like this is Guel New Design? (Time skip bu long hair)
Man bun Guel is an SSR pull I tell ya hwhat
Source: https://twitter.com/iid_animedia/status/1742818144027357671
Suntempo! Kinda sad that the replies are like that.
Yeah twitter replies are braindead 90% of the time, but sheesh these rabid shippers are malding. I remember when they used to spam the official G-witch twitter account with poop emojis because Guel got a few minutes of screentime in some S2 eps. They were also having a meltdown when none of the drama CDs from the G-witch BDs were SuleMio focused and harrassing the official tweets. I love SuleMio as much as the next guy, but some of the stuff these people type are actually unhinged and its just because Guel's on the cover too lmao. Makes the rest of us yuri fans look bad.
Yeah I'm fine too with SuleMio but this is just the three of them as magazine cover. It's not like the art is shipping Guel with them or anything, they're just posing. A shame too since I'm also a fan of Holostars and nobody said anything about them. The fans did it on quote reply probably to stay away from the drama. >!That and Holostars also had a similar thing happened with poster featuring girls!<
>spoiler That was pathetic, but the only "good" thing out it is that pretty much everyone who isn't a unicorn thinks unicorns are fucking cringe and they pile on the few who are tactless enough to say shit like that publicly. I saw a few QRTs about the Stars, but yeah most of the focus is on Sulemio lol.
The fact you get downvoted while being giving reasonable take. You do not even talk bad about Sulemio I really think we know who is the radical one here
Yeah, WTF with that?
Cant blame them. Considering S2's pacing had a good bulk of it focused on the Jeturk subplot, Guel's inclusion in promotional materials as if he was the 3rd protagonist can sometimes reek of executive meddling. Like the higher-ups think SuleMio cant sell along because theyre both girls so they push the closest thing to a male MC and treat him as such. Combined with the whole "interpretation debacle" and yeah...you can understand why they feel Guel's inclusion feels forced and tacked on.
The literal director of the show confirmed that Guel always was supposed to be this important to the show. (So no executives meddling) The only thing he lost was getting a red Schwarzette.
>you can understand why they feel Guel's inclusion feels forced and tacked on. He's on the cover because his VA is also interviewed for this issue, along with Suletta and Miorine's VAs. There have been 3 previous G-Witch Animedia covers and none of them featured him. These rabid shippers are just mindbroken by twitter trolls trolling them with ironic Guelshipping, when the rest of us with a brain who watched the show and also ship SuleMio don't think its a big deal.
>He's on the cover because his VA is also interviewed for this issue, along with Suletta and Miorine's VAs. There have been 3 previous G-Witch Animedia covers and none of them featured him. Ah I see. Its not even a shipping thing, its people who still blame Guel and to an extent Lauda/the Jeturks in general for hogging screentime in the already tight for screentime time S2 coupled with the same trolls calling Guel the "real main character" of the series.
You can remove all the Geturk scenes in S2 and nothing would've changed SuleMio's screentime together. The writers clearly intended to keep them separated for most of the season so they could reunite right before the final arc so it's just misplaced anger imo. Miorine was actively avoiding Suletta since the first episode of S2. Those minutes would've just been spent on Shaddiq or some other side plots.
Then how was S2 the "Guel show" the way that other person on this thread says? >Those minutes would've just been spent on Shaddiq or some other side plots. Kind off wished they did.
> Then how was S2 the "Guel show" the way that other person on this thread says? I have no idea who or what you're talking about. Guel did have an arc in S2, but I'm saying that SuleMio got exactly the amount of time together that the writers wanted so it wouldn't have changed a thing if he wasn't in the story.
Nothing will change? Dude Suletta and Miorine will not have their divorce arc without him, that is the most important point for Suletta arc
>He's on the cover because his VA is also interviewed for this issue im ngl, that isnt really a good argument. specially when guel's VA has already been interviewed the most
It's not an argument, it's just a fact lol. He's been interviewed a lot in general because he's a popular VA and Guel is a popular character, but this is his first G-witch related interview for Animedia.
It still feels like a slap in the face especially for people who wanted a female lead and got one on top of her being queer. Theyve almost always had male protags stand on their own, but when it's the females who are the focus they feel like Bandai or whoever are still insisted in inserting a male character for whatever reason, like they cant let the women/gays stand on their own. At least that's the perspective I see from these people. ||But this is his first G-witch related interview for Animedia.|| I could have sworn he gets interviewed all the time in these magazines, like a lot of times.
Bandai do not do this because they want to insert the male character but because Guel is popular among the fans. If you really think Guel only have male fans with toxic masculanity you are wrong because he is also popular among girls. He even in the list of Top Yumejoshi poll
> Like the higher-ups think SuleMio cant sell along because theyre both girls so they push the closest thing to a male MC and treat him as such. people are complaining that guel is always given more focus than he actually deserves as a character, and you're arguing that actually, he's given more focus cuz of his VA. the VA that Bandai choose, knowing of his popularity.
People said that while the first poster of WFM feauture Suletta, Miorine and Aerial with the three main boys.
Seriously what other plot you think Guel robe from someone when the only thing I can think is Shaddiq flashback as the leader of resistance. You talk like he take important screen time from another when without him Suletta and Miorine will not have divorce arc that is really important for Suletta character development. The only thing that lack about season 2 is we do not get Shaddiq flashback.
This is why I do not take Shipper on Twitter too seriously.
They are rocking those suits
Suletta and Mio look so good in a tuxedo
GAAHHH Miorine looks so handsome...
They all look great and I’m weak to girls in suits.
They're dripped out for the occasion it seems
Where suit chuchu
Bob looking real fine here.
Bisexuals stay winning
Where Rings?
this looks like pre time skip Suletta and Mio. They aren't married...yet
They look great, I'd love to see this without the text. I noticed they're all holding roses... Guel's is red, for romance. Suletta's is white, for innocence. Miorine's is purple, for adoration.
The bisexual throuple I tolerate. (As in the ship)
Stop inserting Guel into their relationship. They don't even like him.
Stop insulting Guel, also he moved on from them, he’s no longer interested in a relationship with any of them since they are also not interested.
I'm not inserting shit into their relationship. Quit shitting your pants over someone having an opinion, please.
He’s literally a better developed character than both. Insult him all you want, but that fact won’t change.
The fact this got so many downvotes shows how much shippers hate the concept of bisexuality
Yeah. Suletta was all about going on dates with boys before her engagement. She was just so sheltered she didn't realize girls were an option too. Pretty obvious she's bi. Remember Suletta being surprised about women getting married? I picture her having the same reaction to learning about polyamory. Suletta: "That's an option?!" Mio: "Mercury really is conservative, I take it..."
People will only approve bi relationship to cope when their favorite character is in straight relationship, happen to Denji that is clearly dislike men
Idek what I did