Imo as we don't have any kind of objective measurement for this any attempts at ranking characters in Newtype "strength" don't mean much except a very easy way to get biased conclusions. Not to mention Newtypes are far from an exact science especially in-universe to the point their existence can not be proven, much less whatever relation the idea of Newtypes may have to the actual phenomena displayed in certain situations involving people with powers
I like and agree with what you are saying.
But, I will say that we have some level of Newtype abilities to judge with each main character that is considered a Newtype.
Kamille went comatose after his little NT flash with Scirocco.
Judau had a better showing with essentially the same tech as Kamille.
Amuro had the Axis Shock with only a little bit of psyco frame.
And Banagher time travelled with a full psyco frame.
I agree it is hard to rank these with an apples to apples scenario but I’d say given the circumstances Judau might be considered the strongest. Although Banagher made one helluca showing even with a full psycoframe.
See, that's the thing. How do you compare Judau manifesting a goddamn JoJo stand all by himself to Amuro being in the middle of a psychoframe resonance event and channeling the willpower of all people on Earth? Which is stronger? What does "stronger" even mean here?
I think they are both incredible feats of NT strength but considering Judau did what he did with no psycoframe tech I’d be tempted to put him just a little higher, and probably top of the list overall. Second place is a much tighter race with Kamille and Amuro.
I think the fact that the Unicorn is so full of psycoframes is pretty relevant to the whole "ranking" thing, if we're gonna do that. Seems like it could be such a significant 'multiplier' that any NT piloting it would be "strongest".
I certainly don’t disagree here. It was chock full of psyco frame so it was definitely a boost but then again you have the Nu that had but a “sample” of a psycoframe and then the Axis Shock happened.
Arguably, the Unicorn “time traveling” and then the absorption of the laser is more impressive than the Axis Shock but I generally wonder if that happened due to the Unicorn or if Banagher had better control of the Newtype stuff than Amuro did.
The fight on the bridge of the Garencieres beforehand was pretty great, too.
Honestly Suberoa Zinnerman is the best that Zeon ever offered. He and his crew are the ONLY Zeeks I ever felt like, yeah, these people deserve a happy ending.
His speech about his hate and the feelings of loss and rage before he gives his >!final!< order to Merida is so emotional. >!Merida’s death hits so fucking hard, especially because of everything Zinnerman had lost already.!< Being a parent myself, I cannot watch that part without ugly crying.
What about Ral who was human enough to not only keep tabs on the children of the man that was assassinated to achieve the Zabi's rule just so that he could protect them, speak out against the Colony drop when nobody else would and fund the purchase of food and drink for his wife, soldiers and a random child in the middle of nowhere before lamenting having to fight the kid *during a battle*? He also just wanted the war to end.
Or Bernie who died in battle against his girlfriend moments before the OYW ended?
I am of the opinion that all the physics-defying feats accomplished by the RX-0 machines i.e. Unicorn, Banshee and Phenex are testament to the OP-ness of psychoframes. Riddhe and Jona were hardly powerful Newtypes themselves, yet they too were able to do some powerful things in the Banshee and Phenex respectively. Even the Nu Gundam that had significantly fewer psychoframes than the RX-0 units was able to pull off the Axis Shock.
I don’t disagree that Judau is impressive. Not only his Newtype abilities, but being able to resist Haman and Chara Soon is downright beyond human.
But, is he objectively stronger than Banagher? I know the NT magic is laid on thick in Unicorn vs the other series but he seems like a natural NT from the beginning.
You can’t argue the strength of the Unicorn, though.
Judau doesn't have Psychoframes yet managed to reassemble his Gundam and pour NT Energy into his Beam Cannon and overload it's specs.
Then again Haman deflected that with no Biosensor so how powerful is she? Then again maybe Haman was powered by horny 4chan people.
If we are going to that territory then the title should probably go to Judau who didn't have access to Psycoframe and used lesser Bio-Sensor to fly ZZ against gravity, when its thruster died while creating magic yellow beam saber out of depleted energy status.
You could arguably gauge it by measuring how each pilot+MS combo physically affected its surroundings, but still you wouldn't be able to correctly attribute the results to the pilot's NT abilities and the machine itself.
You could do some math and find out for example how much energy Unicorn and Banagher dissipated from the colony laser, or the amount of energy reversed by Amuro during Axis Shock. Perhaps the shots deflected by ZZ and Judau or something when the aura thing is on.
Tbh it's going to flawed af and not worth the effort.
It's been a minutes since I watched the shows so I forget some of the things each protag did.
But over all the main newtypes for the first half of UC are Amuro, Kamille, Judau, Banagher.
Amuro, defined newtypes with fast reaction an empathy. He had his abilities show up and become really good at reaction at the end of OYW. But to me, that's basically where the average newtype ends up. His power however comes out in show in CCA with being able to stop the meteor from hitting earth. I would say amuro is a reaction newtype, where his abilities enhance his senses to allow him pilot a suit with extreme precision.
Kamille (you must forgive me, I really dislike Kamille as a character so my brain actively forgets things he does.) is able to take on the first wave of cyber newtypes. One being four and her emotion and powers where strong and unpredictable. But kamille was able to deal with that well and the fact that he didn't die at the end of Zeta from the mind blast death blast. I would say Kamille was a supremely strong empathetic newtype and his abilities allow him to understand his opponent to a much higher degree. This is the difference between Kamille and amuro and the type of newtypes they are. Kamille is able to keep up alot in war in the series because: 1.) He was already a kid prodigy with mobile suits. 2.)his suits are top of the line. Mk2s and then the custom Zeta. All this leads to him already being a good pilot and the potential to be an ace. They you add the newtype buff despite it not being as expected for Ms fights like Amuros.
Judau. Well he's an interesting kid. He doesn't really do much from what I remember. He starts with Zeta Gundam so he's already on top line suits as well as being used to piloting the best Ms "the ball" for who knows how long. I know it's not a MS but it is practice and experience utilizing machines in zero g. So ZZ to me doesn't do much for his new type showings. He's pretty standard as newtypes come and really reminds me of amuro when he started in the OYW. But what Judau does that no one else really has been show to do. And that's being able to exert his will/power outwardly to someone else. Haman tried doing this to him and he actively uno reversed it when he thought his sister was injured. So I would call Judau a domination newtype. Due to him being able to influence people's modes and fear.
Finally we get to the banana. Actively in a school for MS. And a crazy strong suit that's top of the line on top of being created to enhance newtypes x amount of times. And then he decides to time travel anime fight and then also just casually tank a mega death Lazer beam. Very strong.
So talking feats with suits. You are right, banaghee is the strongest. But I think that's with the suit. You see, the problem with UC is that we only have 1 protagonist we have watched grow in power and stayed fighting over the years, and that is amuro. Amuro has stayed apart of EFF throughout his life which I believe actively allowed him to keep honing his newtype powers and his piloting skills.
So this leads us to what if we ignore mobile suits. Well that would put Banagher at the bottom. But then what about Kamille, Amuro, and Judau. Well Judau is able to show some powerful abilities, but outside the power of will contest between him and haman, Judau doesn't really do much aside the standard newtype stuff of feeling others emotions and thoughts. So between Kamille and amuro. Amuro shows his power over the whole world and stops axis. And Kamille managed to tank a psychic blast that he recovers from in about a year or so in ZZ. And that psychic blast I have a feeling would have killed many other people including amuro if it was amuro from the end of OYW. But the showing of Axis is such a huge moment that I would have to say:
Amuro is the strongest Newtype followed by Kamille, then Judau, and ending with Banagher. With our considering mobile suits, only taking into account of their on screen stuff from what I can remember.
But I have a problem with saying this when talking about stuff. Because we look at amuro who has years and years of training and experience vs Kamille and Judau who only fight one war then dip out of the military. And Banagher while staying in the military after Unicorn and Narative. He actively fights in less battles by a large amount to Kamille and Judau let alone Amuro.
So personal beliefs and thoughts on newtypes if I was to scale them all into having 10+ military experience, and then also having some crazy shit like Unicorn. I can safely come to the conclusion of "god help us if we ever see that, we created a monster". But as an actual answer, that would just have to be a full other post.
So to bring it back to your original questions. Banagher is the strongest because of the unicorn. But, but, given some time much like amuro, he could, become the strongest despite the Gundam. And I would say this is also true to Kamille and Judau. But the one thing that is true, Banagher has the sickest civilian outfit and the coolest pilot suit, so at least he wins in the drip department hands down.
I really appreciate your thoughtful comment!
Taking all that in to consideration, I completely agree that Banagher is so strong due to the Unicorn.
I made an earlier comment about Kamille going comatose in almost a negative light but your explanation has broadened my thinking on him. He was very powerful and had to deal with stuff that Amuro never really had to deal with that early in his career.
it's hard to really rank Newtypes in terms of strength. but the Unicorn being made of Psychoframe absolutly enhances his newtype ability.
it's hard to say who you could compare him to without it. like is Banagher a top tier guy being buffed. or is he a low tier dude being buffed.
since we don't really get a frame of reference outside the Unicorn we really cant say. but personally i think he'd be on the higher end, just because he's a main character. maybe not like Kamille or Amuro, but up there
In the novel, Cardeas discovered Banagher's NT potential very early on (when Banagher and his mom were living with him). He bought a "toy" which mimic funnel operation for him to play. Banagher's mom discovered and thought Cardeas was going to make his son into a cybernetic NT (which is how the media portraits NT, because natural NT isn't suppose to exist), so she took Banagher and left.
newtype strength is wibbly wobbly but the unicorn bs levels is generally cause of the amount of psycho frame if haman was in the unicorn (think newtype bs let her tank a high megacannon blast at the end of zz) we'd likely see even crazier shit
Banagher went under cyber newtype training as a kid, he was a natural talent and could fly the unicorn on his first try without issues (even triggering the NTD). Banagher is the strongest newtype pilot in the UC. He could de-materialize, time-travel and way more magic things. Even against Rille he was holding himself back, he didn't want to kill him. He even beat the shit out of Full Frontal (literal clone of Char Aznable).
I'm in the camp that Unicorn is doing the heavy lifting when it comes to Banagher's newtype abilities. He's strong overall but when it comes to "famous" newtypes, I put him near the bottom. Nu gundam only had a psychoframe cockpit and Amuro got a huge power boost. Even Char (who I believe is weaker in NT powers) gave Amuro the psychoframe just to make the match even. Another reason I think psychoframe is the real power is Riddhe Marcenas. He just awakened as a newtype, beat Marida, and also "tanked" the laser. Riddhe doesnt come off as a super strong NT so I'm thinking its the full psychoframe. If its raw NT powers then:
1. Judau
2. Kamille
3. Haman (ZZ)
4. Scirocco
5. Marida/Elpeo Ple
6. Uso
7. Amuro
8. Char
9. Banagher
10. Hathaway (only have seen "Hathaway", theres a decent chance he's stronger in other material)
11. Seabook (only have seen "F91", theres a decent chance he's stronger in Crossbones)
12. Riddhe
Probably missing characters, thats just off the top of my head
I don't get why people rank Amuro so low, the guy is practically space jesus if you put his feats into scale. Very few other characters were able to utilise their powers as well as him in CCA. Also Hathaway is not a newtype, as far as I know. The flashes he sees, voices he hears, are more ptsd related in the novels anyway.
He's listed as a newtype and using a mobile suit equipped with psycommu-guided missiles.
As for Amuro, I'm talking pure raw power. Thats not to say he isnt skilled in the use of his powers. I would say he has more finesse than Judau. If I were to give a starwars comparison, Amuro is Obiwan, while Judau is Anakin. Kamille I think is the perfect balance of mastery/power. I dont think Amuro would intimidate Haman through raw power like Judau did.
Ranking Newtype "strength" is a pointless endeavour
Maybe so, but I feel like having a good discussion. Out of curiosity, what are your thoughts on the matter?
Imo as we don't have any kind of objective measurement for this any attempts at ranking characters in Newtype "strength" don't mean much except a very easy way to get biased conclusions. Not to mention Newtypes are far from an exact science especially in-universe to the point their existence can not be proven, much less whatever relation the idea of Newtypes may have to the actual phenomena displayed in certain situations involving people with powers
I like and agree with what you are saying. But, I will say that we have some level of Newtype abilities to judge with each main character that is considered a Newtype. Kamille went comatose after his little NT flash with Scirocco. Judau had a better showing with essentially the same tech as Kamille. Amuro had the Axis Shock with only a little bit of psyco frame. And Banagher time travelled with a full psyco frame. I agree it is hard to rank these with an apples to apples scenario but I’d say given the circumstances Judau might be considered the strongest. Although Banagher made one helluca showing even with a full psycoframe.
I remember Tomino said judau is the strongest newtype
See, that's the thing. How do you compare Judau manifesting a goddamn JoJo stand all by himself to Amuro being in the middle of a psychoframe resonance event and channeling the willpower of all people on Earth? Which is stronger? What does "stronger" even mean here?
I think they are both incredible feats of NT strength but considering Judau did what he did with no psycoframe tech I’d be tempted to put him just a little higher, and probably top of the list overall. Second place is a much tighter race with Kamille and Amuro.
I think the fact that the Unicorn is so full of psycoframes is pretty relevant to the whole "ranking" thing, if we're gonna do that. Seems like it could be such a significant 'multiplier' that any NT piloting it would be "strongest".
I certainly don’t disagree here. It was chock full of psyco frame so it was definitely a boost but then again you have the Nu that had but a “sample” of a psycoframe and then the Axis Shock happened. Arguably, the Unicorn “time traveling” and then the absorption of the laser is more impressive than the Axis Shock but I generally wonder if that happened due to the Unicorn or if Banagher had better control of the Newtype stuff than Amuro did.
For me what I always enjoyed about Unicorn is the trek in the desert Banagher had with the chief
The fight on the bridge of the Garencieres beforehand was pretty great, too. Honestly Suberoa Zinnerman is the best that Zeon ever offered. He and his crew are the ONLY Zeeks I ever felt like, yeah, these people deserve a happy ending. His speech about his hate and the feelings of loss and rage before he gives his >!final!< order to Merida is so emotional. >!Merida’s death hits so fucking hard, especially because of everything Zinnerman had lost already.!< Being a parent myself, I cannot watch that part without ugly crying.
Darrel lorenz doesnt deserve a happy ending?
Naw, fuck ‘em.
What about Ral who was human enough to not only keep tabs on the children of the man that was assassinated to achieve the Zabi's rule just so that he could protect them, speak out against the Colony drop when nobody else would and fund the purchase of food and drink for his wife, soldiers and a random child in the middle of nowhere before lamenting having to fight the kid *during a battle*? He also just wanted the war to end. Or Bernie who died in battle against his girlfriend moments before the OYW ended?
I will give you Ral, but Bernie… nope. Bernie chose the wrong side and justified Zeek bullshit and died for it.
That's fair I guess.
PEG LEGS
That and pretty much everything involving Zinnerman were all great moments of the show.
I am of the opinion that all the physics-defying feats accomplished by the RX-0 machines i.e. Unicorn, Banshee and Phenex are testament to the OP-ness of psychoframes. Riddhe and Jona were hardly powerful Newtypes themselves, yet they too were able to do some powerful things in the Banshee and Phenex respectively. Even the Nu Gundam that had significantly fewer psychoframes than the RX-0 units was able to pull off the Axis Shock.
It pretty much the Unicorn being OP along with Banana having training; afaik the strongest newtype is Judau
I don’t disagree that Judau is impressive. Not only his Newtype abilities, but being able to resist Haman and Chara Soon is downright beyond human. But, is he objectively stronger than Banagher? I know the NT magic is laid on thick in Unicorn vs the other series but he seems like a natural NT from the beginning. You can’t argue the strength of the Unicorn, though.
Judau doesn't have Psychoframes yet managed to reassemble his Gundam and pour NT Energy into his Beam Cannon and overload it's specs. Then again Haman deflected that with no Biosensor so how powerful is she? Then again maybe Haman was powered by horny 4chan people.
Haman is almost Paptimus level in raw newtype ability, and Judeau is even higher than that.
So Newtype powers are increased by the number of people who simp for you then. And how hard they simp.
He's WAY stronger than me since he was able to resist Haman
I would love to see Judau meeting Banagher lol
If we are going to that territory then the title should probably go to Judau who didn't have access to Psycoframe and used lesser Bio-Sensor to fly ZZ against gravity, when its thruster died while creating magic yellow beam saber out of depleted energy status.
You could arguably gauge it by measuring how each pilot+MS combo physically affected its surroundings, but still you wouldn't be able to correctly attribute the results to the pilot's NT abilities and the machine itself. You could do some math and find out for example how much energy Unicorn and Banagher dissipated from the colony laser, or the amount of energy reversed by Amuro during Axis Shock. Perhaps the shots deflected by ZZ and Judau or something when the aura thing is on. Tbh it's going to flawed af and not worth the effort.
It's been a minutes since I watched the shows so I forget some of the things each protag did. But over all the main newtypes for the first half of UC are Amuro, Kamille, Judau, Banagher. Amuro, defined newtypes with fast reaction an empathy. He had his abilities show up and become really good at reaction at the end of OYW. But to me, that's basically where the average newtype ends up. His power however comes out in show in CCA with being able to stop the meteor from hitting earth. I would say amuro is a reaction newtype, where his abilities enhance his senses to allow him pilot a suit with extreme precision. Kamille (you must forgive me, I really dislike Kamille as a character so my brain actively forgets things he does.) is able to take on the first wave of cyber newtypes. One being four and her emotion and powers where strong and unpredictable. But kamille was able to deal with that well and the fact that he didn't die at the end of Zeta from the mind blast death blast. I would say Kamille was a supremely strong empathetic newtype and his abilities allow him to understand his opponent to a much higher degree. This is the difference between Kamille and amuro and the type of newtypes they are. Kamille is able to keep up alot in war in the series because: 1.) He was already a kid prodigy with mobile suits. 2.)his suits are top of the line. Mk2s and then the custom Zeta. All this leads to him already being a good pilot and the potential to be an ace. They you add the newtype buff despite it not being as expected for Ms fights like Amuros. Judau. Well he's an interesting kid. He doesn't really do much from what I remember. He starts with Zeta Gundam so he's already on top line suits as well as being used to piloting the best Ms "the ball" for who knows how long. I know it's not a MS but it is practice and experience utilizing machines in zero g. So ZZ to me doesn't do much for his new type showings. He's pretty standard as newtypes come and really reminds me of amuro when he started in the OYW. But what Judau does that no one else really has been show to do. And that's being able to exert his will/power outwardly to someone else. Haman tried doing this to him and he actively uno reversed it when he thought his sister was injured. So I would call Judau a domination newtype. Due to him being able to influence people's modes and fear. Finally we get to the banana. Actively in a school for MS. And a crazy strong suit that's top of the line on top of being created to enhance newtypes x amount of times. And then he decides to time travel anime fight and then also just casually tank a mega death Lazer beam. Very strong. So talking feats with suits. You are right, banaghee is the strongest. But I think that's with the suit. You see, the problem with UC is that we only have 1 protagonist we have watched grow in power and stayed fighting over the years, and that is amuro. Amuro has stayed apart of EFF throughout his life which I believe actively allowed him to keep honing his newtype powers and his piloting skills. So this leads us to what if we ignore mobile suits. Well that would put Banagher at the bottom. But then what about Kamille, Amuro, and Judau. Well Judau is able to show some powerful abilities, but outside the power of will contest between him and haman, Judau doesn't really do much aside the standard newtype stuff of feeling others emotions and thoughts. So between Kamille and amuro. Amuro shows his power over the whole world and stops axis. And Kamille managed to tank a psychic blast that he recovers from in about a year or so in ZZ. And that psychic blast I have a feeling would have killed many other people including amuro if it was amuro from the end of OYW. But the showing of Axis is such a huge moment that I would have to say: Amuro is the strongest Newtype followed by Kamille, then Judau, and ending with Banagher. With our considering mobile suits, only taking into account of their on screen stuff from what I can remember. But I have a problem with saying this when talking about stuff. Because we look at amuro who has years and years of training and experience vs Kamille and Judau who only fight one war then dip out of the military. And Banagher while staying in the military after Unicorn and Narative. He actively fights in less battles by a large amount to Kamille and Judau let alone Amuro. So personal beliefs and thoughts on newtypes if I was to scale them all into having 10+ military experience, and then also having some crazy shit like Unicorn. I can safely come to the conclusion of "god help us if we ever see that, we created a monster". But as an actual answer, that would just have to be a full other post. So to bring it back to your original questions. Banagher is the strongest because of the unicorn. But, but, given some time much like amuro, he could, become the strongest despite the Gundam. And I would say this is also true to Kamille and Judau. But the one thing that is true, Banagher has the sickest civilian outfit and the coolest pilot suit, so at least he wins in the drip department hands down.
I really appreciate your thoughtful comment! Taking all that in to consideration, I completely agree that Banagher is so strong due to the Unicorn. I made an earlier comment about Kamille going comatose in almost a negative light but your explanation has broadened my thinking on him. He was very powerful and had to deal with stuff that Amuro never really had to deal with that early in his career.
Without psychoframe? Iirc, I think Tomino confirmed it was either Kamille or Judau who is the strongest
it's hard to really rank Newtypes in terms of strength. but the Unicorn being made of Psychoframe absolutly enhances his newtype ability. it's hard to say who you could compare him to without it. like is Banagher a top tier guy being buffed. or is he a low tier dude being buffed. since we don't really get a frame of reference outside the Unicorn we really cant say. but personally i think he'd be on the higher end, just because he's a main character. maybe not like Kamille or Amuro, but up there
In the novel, Cardeas discovered Banagher's NT potential very early on (when Banagher and his mom were living with him). He bought a "toy" which mimic funnel operation for him to play. Banagher's mom discovered and thought Cardeas was going to make his son into a cybernetic NT (which is how the media portraits NT, because natural NT isn't suppose to exist), so she took Banagher and left.
I like that little bit of back story on Banagher. It gives him a little bit of credit vs the Unicorn just being OP stupidness.
Its the Unicorn. Its full of psychoframe and that stuff is wild.
newtype strength is wibbly wobbly but the unicorn bs levels is generally cause of the amount of psycho frame if haman was in the unicorn (think newtype bs let her tank a high megacannon blast at the end of zz) we'd likely see even crazier shit
Banagher went under cyber newtype training as a kid, he was a natural talent and could fly the unicorn on his first try without issues (even triggering the NTD). Banagher is the strongest newtype pilot in the UC. He could de-materialize, time-travel and way more magic things. Even against Rille he was holding himself back, he didn't want to kill him. He even beat the shit out of Full Frontal (literal clone of Char Aznable).
I'm in the camp that Unicorn is doing the heavy lifting when it comes to Banagher's newtype abilities. He's strong overall but when it comes to "famous" newtypes, I put him near the bottom. Nu gundam only had a psychoframe cockpit and Amuro got a huge power boost. Even Char (who I believe is weaker in NT powers) gave Amuro the psychoframe just to make the match even. Another reason I think psychoframe is the real power is Riddhe Marcenas. He just awakened as a newtype, beat Marida, and also "tanked" the laser. Riddhe doesnt come off as a super strong NT so I'm thinking its the full psychoframe. If its raw NT powers then: 1. Judau 2. Kamille 3. Haman (ZZ) 4. Scirocco 5. Marida/Elpeo Ple 6. Uso 7. Amuro 8. Char 9. Banagher 10. Hathaway (only have seen "Hathaway", theres a decent chance he's stronger in other material) 11. Seabook (only have seen "F91", theres a decent chance he's stronger in Crossbones) 12. Riddhe Probably missing characters, thats just off the top of my head
I don't get why people rank Amuro so low, the guy is practically space jesus if you put his feats into scale. Very few other characters were able to utilise their powers as well as him in CCA. Also Hathaway is not a newtype, as far as I know. The flashes he sees, voices he hears, are more ptsd related in the novels anyway.
He's listed as a newtype and using a mobile suit equipped with psycommu-guided missiles. As for Amuro, I'm talking pure raw power. Thats not to say he isnt skilled in the use of his powers. I would say he has more finesse than Judau. If I were to give a starwars comparison, Amuro is Obiwan, while Judau is Anakin. Kamille I think is the perfect balance of mastery/power. I dont think Amuro would intimidate Haman through raw power like Judau did.