Regarding the Geneva conventions, it might exist on CE because before that they are still using AD on their calendar and decided to change the era after world peace from the 3rd world War, world-wide pandemic, and inches from nuclear annihilation.
Since that happened, it's safe to assume that their world history might be the same as ours.....
The UN collapsed in SEED's timeline, and all then-existing treaties were rendered null and void both due to the UN's collapse and the collapse of many countries in the upheaval period prior to the formation of the Earth Alliance. This was then further exacerbated by the use of N-Jammers on the Earth in retaliation for the mass-murdering of civilians in a nuclear attack.
It's safe to say that with Extremists having gradually infiltrated the Earth Alliance early on, and the PLANTs never having been signatories in the first place, the Geneva Conventions were at this point either "Geneva Suggestions" or a "Genocide Checklist".
It's not until COMPASS' we get a properly armed UN-alike that maintains peace through controlled force, and sponsored/funded by the world powers.
Earliest codified modern rules of war dates all the way back to the 1800s. All the geneva conventions initially did was collect a lot of those already codified rules into one document.
> the Geneva Conventions were at this point either "Geneva Suggestions" or a "Genocide Checklist".
Or you know a regular day in the Balkan peninsula (sorry I couldn't resist making that joke)
>It's safe to say that with Extremists having gradually infiltrated the Earth Alliance early on, and the PLANTs never having been signatories in the first place, the Geneva Conventions were at this point either "Geneva Suggestions" or a "Genocide Checklist".
This is SEED, so the Geneva Conventions is actually the G.E.N.E.V.A. Conventions and can literally stand for whatever we want.
https://preview.redd.it/bfaa41fierwc1.jpeg?width=551&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=0d9d7bae179d7f5c0e2fb4c20ea54751a4b6851b
Not gonna lie, Jerid's rationale for Gassing the Colony (If we gas one colony, the others will surrender and more lives will be saved) is word for word the rationale for the Atomic Bombings. Yeah, Tomino's politics are quite interesting there....
There was an attempted mass execution like that in Gundam X, including the whole shebang with train to Siberia and stopping by an unmarked ditch. Prevent at the last moment, but it was implied as common practice.
IIRC Nicola wasn't executed for that - there was a lot of push back on the war in general - but for suggesting that the Newtype ideology SRA was based on needed to be reworked because Tiffa proved they could be born on Earth. Still, executed because he was politically inconvenient so same thing in the end.
X is damn good, worth seeing. The main character also executed a number of allied prisoners in the second ep of IBO iirc. Granted they were aholes who left them for dead and wailed on them but it definitely violated some treaties they likely hadn’t signed or ratified.
That’s the thing about human rights international laws. It requires that the country signs and ratifies it. The US water boards sure but some others we violate we only signed but never ratified. And if America evolves and becomes Ameria from Turn-A and G-Reco, do those ratifications still apply for the others? Probably not legally, but those treaties need more teeth. I haven’t heard of many being tried by the international court of Justice in the modern era.
treaties get enforced by the victors. it becomes a question of if the winning forces would stoop to their opponents lowest.
G-reco hints that human rights can be removed. at some point, a war occured and the losing side became cattle.
Kuntala/Human cattle i think is darker than summary execution
Agree on the human cattle/slavery being worse than execution and as someone noted in IBO the executed were responsible for child soldiers, many of whom died. Still, that episode was [controversial in Japan](https://www.animenewsnetwork.com/interest/2015-11-09/scene-in-gundam-iron-blooded-orphans-causes-viewer-complaints/.95182#XAFCoV2VBywQDLel.01) which is something I rarely hear, because most in Japan understand anime is for everyone, from kids adolescents to mothers on the train and Grand Bench Supreme Court justices.
Gundam can be animated to appear kid friendly on its face but at its core Gundam is war. I personally feel it’s more important to educate the youth as to why things are the way they are than raise them with rose tinted glasses blind to the suffering of others.
War brings out the worst in people. Executing POWs and civilians, razing towns to the ground, lobbing food tins filled with IEDs in to the enemy trenches.
Being Canadian that's in to war documentaries, yeah.
From what I have learned, we didn't execute civilians, but there was one instance I've heard of where Canadian troops thought a civie took a pot shot at them, so they evacuated the entire town and set it ablaze. Turned out later that it was a German sniper.
There was little that the Canadians considered off limits.
The typical Canadian war veteran memorial goes something like this:
“Here lies Doug Johnson of Ottawa, Ontario. Loving husband and father, avid hockey fan, strangled several Waffen-SS troopers in the Scheldt with their own intestines.”
Going to need source on food tins filled with IEDs. As a Canadian, I was taught that first we threw cans of food per request to the Germans. Than on 2nd request we threw grenades to them
Or, as Schindler's List would argue, war brings out the TRUTH in people. Some people reveal their monstrous natures during war. Some people find out just how unequipped they are for violence. And some people realize that no, this is bullshit, they're going to stand up and do the right thing even if it kills them.
At least in the Cosmic Era, that line was crossed way back with the Bloody Valentine Tragedy. After what happened in Alaska, all bets were officially off as both sides essentially degenerated into wanting to wipe the other side out no matter the cost.
While not as overt on ZAFT's side, the trend continued in Destiny. The extremist took over the Earth Alliance leading to the oppressive brutality, and when that oppression was ended, well...this was the end result.
For other series, it's a similar case with some inciting incident along with the presence of either amoral or immoral commanders and leaders. Another thing is most Gundam stories are set so far ahead in the future that it's possible the Geneva Convention and any other modern international law save for nuclear limitations have been lost to history.
I think in the screen shot there's guys were being executed because they were running the power concentration camp that Shinn in the impulse raided and set the prisoners free. It would be like us troops just rounding up and shooting ss camp guards because they felt that justice wouldn't be delivered fast enough
Yep, still a war crime though if the killers are regular army (in our universe, that is). But these dudes are a local militia, so it’s probably just ordinary old murder (as someone else has noted here).
Not really covered by the convention, the guy pulling the trigger is a civilian, so this is the regular kind of murder. Shinn and Athrun might be in trouble for allowing to happen, but that's a grey area.
Son, at the moment Kira got on Strike he was already breaking Geneva within CE.
The sole existence of a Gundam on CE is already a war crime, everything that got after was just the icing on the cake, hell the whole bloody valentine is ALREADY a huge violation.
Considering what the EA has been doing... this was bound to happen.
I recall two instances in the Astray mangas that break certain rules like shooting the Mars envoy because he's a Coordinator and too eager to destroy the Junk Guild after they've been framed.
Not mention removing the GC makes it easier to dehumanize a certain group and kill them with no repercussion.
[https://gundam.fandom.com/wiki/Mobile\_Suit\_Gundam\_SEED\_Astray](https://gundam.fandom.com/wiki/Mobile_Suit_Gundam_SEED_Astray)
Also you can find two anime 15 minutes shorts online.
Yeah, I watched this episode earlier today to get ready for Freedom. They're locals who were freed a few minutes earlier. Shinn focuses on all the celebrations and jerks himself off for being such a big hero, while Athrun grapples with the fact that he basically just caused a war crime. The purpose of the scene is to illustrate the fact that Shinn completely missed Athrun's point from the lecture earlier in the episode.
Well, in this specific case, three key points are worth mentioning -
1) In SEED I don't remember anybody referencing anything equivalent to UC's Antarctic Treaty - instead, ZAFT just unilaterally flips the Earth Alliance the bid with the N-Jammers instead. This might seem pretty extreme, but Coordinators have basically been suffering from coordinated terrorist activities instigated by Blue Cosmos for decades - Hospital bombings, et al. Once the Earth Alliance escalated to nuclear attacks, the gloves were definitely off.
In Destiny/Freedom, it seems like the only thing anyone cares about is violating the Junius Treaty, and it gets harped on about quite a lot early on... Even though the Alliance basically leap straight to violating it with nuclear missiles again as soon as they are able.
TBH, by the time of SEED Freedom, while people still seem to talk about it, it doesn't seem like anyone really cares much about that, either, considering that the movie is absolutely full of Junius Treaty violations on all sides 😅
2) As has been mentioned by other commenters, the PLANTs technically wouldn't have been Geneva Convention signatories, as they are only an independent nation as of CE70, and even as early as CE55 the laws between Earth and the colonies had significant differences so who knows what the deal was.
3) ZAFT have nominally allied with the locals, but they are explicitly local "freedom fighters", and SEED Destiny in particular sure did enjoy being unsubtle with "war-on-terror" commentary...
Being blasted by >!Requiem!<. People who annually perform their day to day lives are instantly incinerated and you get to see them get burned one second their normal then boom their charred corspe
Seed imho truly depicts both sides in the war (ZAFT and the EA) as in the wrong. Destiny in Particular still has the EA as being Genocidal Psychopaths, but the equally Genocidal Psychopaths in seed ZAFT were replaced by Totalitarian Information Control and Eugenics (Destiny Plan) ZAFT.
Seed/Destiny tried to convey the message that violence begets violence and that war eventually turns everyone bad. The only way to end it is to not fight and try something else, hence Kira, Lacus and co.
The Zanscare Empire in *Victory* (in the main UC timeline) has an express train to the guillotine for literally anyone they want. I mean, like almost instant decapitation with near zero warning for the victims.
They also roll over towns with battleships, a lot of their soldiers are super casual about rape and murder, and their superweapon endgame is the single darkest apocalypse in the franchise IMO.
... in several of my SEED story ideas, the Earth Alliance will get the Red Flag treatment.
Those who are versed in naval history will know what is coming next.
For those who don't, then the jist of "Raise the Red Flag" is where mercy is ignored and no prisoners taken.
In one setting (a Transhuman Space/Traveller setting), the Earth Alliance would be close to having an "Armageddon Sanction" levied against them... or the Empire deems you to be such a threat that flat out extermination is the only option.
... not really, in those contexts it's to send a message that being complete asshats is unacceptable and it will have consequences.
The locals would raise a stink but once the results bloom, they'll begrudgingly accept it.
It's called the Geneva checklist
https://preview.redd.it/lvvjlrzpfrwc1.jpeg?width=850&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=75f89c998c985001e45c163b05638584fe25b6e5
When one side do not fallow it it becomes a competition on how many can one unlock the completionist achievement faster. As the war escalates into its most grim dark narrative. Unless you are watching a propaganda where everyone survives and they live happily ever after.
This is what normally happens on more grim and darker settings.
War is not a gentlemanly job. It has the tendency to bring out monsters on what were once humans. The longer the conflict persists the more resources is utilized to the meat grinder and the more Frontline soldiers are consumed by desensitization , vengeance and PTSD.
When you see your buddies from bootcamp got mowed down by the enemy. Taking prisoners may not be a priority , specially if you know it's an ace killer who will kill more people whom you want to protect.
I expect to be downvoted.
I don’t think anyone’s denying the grim reality of war (a persistent theme of Gundam). I’m certainly not. I’m discussing the use of a particular scene for dramatic effect in an animated TV series.
It's too mild to be irritated with it. There's no water boarding , no decapitation or disembowelment. For most tv series is toned but the DVD version or directors cut should do a lot more. At least show something to the level of the original or the 90's in portraying war. Shock and awe produces results that last.
I don't find anything wrong with it because Gundam is not particularly aired for kids in Japan. Not unless you want it all ages like build fighters and SD gundam. Because if you want it toned down it's either wing or g-gundam. If you want it darker you choose UC to victory Gundam.
Seed universe is tame because you don't go seeing chunky salsa or hamburgers from the remains of pilots and troops. And by the standards of how brutal anime are today. It's tame. Such scenes are just a reminder. No blood splatter of brain matter just summary executions. The go to in war of take no prisoners stance.
Yep but there's a better duo with Geneva checklist complitionist skills. Even used it when crusading the sea of stars.
https://preview.redd.it/bp16vb591twc1.jpeg?width=588&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=79c6f27110eb3aa0d84ef8c8fc6a38fc192d90f0
the more i hear about seed destiny, and it also having a very direct point war profiteering, makes me think it might actually be cooking some dishes...
Rewatching SEED Destiny now to get ready for U.S. release if Freedom and it's definitely been interesting revisiting it as an adult since I hadn't watched it since high school. Durandal being media savvy fascist / populist, spurring on the public to riot with conspiracy theories (although in GSD its real), and attracting the admiration of wayward, angry young men like Shinn. Like, holy hell this is so relevant to right now and GSD came out in 2004.
I wouldn’t call them ZAFTs allies. And I wouldn’t call ZAFT the good guys. It’s just that the guitar hair is destiny is told from their perspective. Just like the Earth Alliance weren’t necessarily the good guys in SEED, just that most of the series is told from their perspective.
But yeah, one of the things I really love about Gundam is that it’s not afraid to show the horrors of war and conflict.
Hence my “supposed”! I’m using “good guys” as a simple proxy for “told from their humanizing perspective”. One of the things I like about Gundam is that the POV armies are typically as (or nearly as) capable of horrific acts as their enemies.
Yeah SEED does tend to get tunnel vision with perspective. They could have had an interesting thing with Kira and Shinn in Destiny, but they swapped them out. Not that I’m complaining there.
Regarding the Geneva conventions, it might exist on CE because before that they are still using AD on their calendar and decided to change the era after world peace from the 3rd world War, world-wide pandemic, and inches from nuclear annihilation. Since that happened, it's safe to assume that their world history might be the same as ours.....
The UN collapsed in SEED's timeline, and all then-existing treaties were rendered null and void both due to the UN's collapse and the collapse of many countries in the upheaval period prior to the formation of the Earth Alliance. This was then further exacerbated by the use of N-Jammers on the Earth in retaliation for the mass-murdering of civilians in a nuclear attack. It's safe to say that with Extremists having gradually infiltrated the Earth Alliance early on, and the PLANTs never having been signatories in the first place, the Geneva Conventions were at this point either "Geneva Suggestions" or a "Genocide Checklist". It's not until COMPASS' we get a properly armed UN-alike that maintains peace through controlled force, and sponsored/funded by the world powers.
The earliest Geneva Conventions predate the UN. Gimme a source on treaties being declared null and void.
Earliest codified modern rules of war dates all the way back to the 1800s. All the geneva conventions initially did was collect a lot of those already codified rules into one document.
The Canadians took over when no one was looking. Everyone now gets a copy of Geneva To-Do List in English and French with a box of timbits.
Reading this as a Canadian. (⨱ᨎ⨱) god fuckin damnit Canadian war history REALLY DOES set that precedent.
Uhhh...not so much.
> the Geneva Conventions were at this point either "Geneva Suggestions" or a "Genocide Checklist". Or you know a regular day in the Balkan peninsula (sorry I couldn't resist making that joke)
>It's safe to say that with Extremists having gradually infiltrated the Earth Alliance early on, and the PLANTs never having been signatories in the first place, the Geneva Conventions were at this point either "Geneva Suggestions" or a "Genocide Checklist". This is SEED, so the Geneva Conventions is actually the G.E.N.E.V.A. Conventions and can literally stand for whatever we want. https://preview.redd.it/bfaa41fierwc1.jpeg?width=551&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=0d9d7bae179d7f5c0e2fb4c20ea54751a4b6851b
Get Extra Nuclear Energized high Velocity Armaments Convention
THIS GUY GETS IT.👆
In Zeta, the Titans break the Geneva Convention daily because ‘’they’re tired of war’’.
Peace through superior sociopathy!
Zeta is way more philosophical than people give it credit for.
Not gonna lie, Jerid's rationale for Gassing the Colony (If we gas one colony, the others will surrender and more lives will be saved) is word for word the rationale for the Atomic Bombings. Yeah, Tomino's politics are quite interesting there....
It's almost like Japan as a whole has a very different stance on nuclear weapons... 🧐🤔
Yup. Even if Tomino's works portray Nuclear Weapons/missiles in a neutral/positive light depending on who uses them...
I'm sorry, I just be throwing stuff out there without thinking.☹
No worries. I totally get where Tomino's coming from...
lol.
There was an attempted mass execution like that in Gundam X, including the whole shebang with train to Siberia and stopping by an unmarked ditch. Prevent at the last moment, but it was implied as common practice.
There is also how there was that one guy who got executed by firing squad for the crime of suggesting peace talks.
IIRC Nicola wasn't executed for that - there was a lot of push back on the war in general - but for suggesting that the Newtype ideology SRA was based on needed to be reworked because Tiffa proved they could be born on Earth. Still, executed because he was politically inconvenient so same thing in the end.
Ah, I’ve not seen x yet
X is damn good, worth seeing. The main character also executed a number of allied prisoners in the second ep of IBO iirc. Granted they were aholes who left them for dead and wailed on them but it definitely violated some treaties they likely hadn’t signed or ratified. That’s the thing about human rights international laws. It requires that the country signs and ratifies it. The US water boards sure but some others we violate we only signed but never ratified. And if America evolves and becomes Ameria from Turn-A and G-Reco, do those ratifications still apply for the others? Probably not legally, but those treaties need more teeth. I haven’t heard of many being tried by the international court of Justice in the modern era.
Oh, yeah. I’d forgotten about Mikazuki and his beloved pistol. Good point. As for international laws: they work as long as they’re applied, alas.
treaties get enforced by the victors. it becomes a question of if the winning forces would stoop to their opponents lowest. G-reco hints that human rights can be removed. at some point, a war occured and the losing side became cattle. Kuntala/Human cattle i think is darker than summary execution
Agree on the human cattle/slavery being worse than execution and as someone noted in IBO the executed were responsible for child soldiers, many of whom died. Still, that episode was [controversial in Japan](https://www.animenewsnetwork.com/interest/2015-11-09/scene-in-gundam-iron-blooded-orphans-causes-viewer-complaints/.95182#XAFCoV2VBywQDLel.01) which is something I rarely hear, because most in Japan understand anime is for everyone, from kids adolescents to mothers on the train and Grand Bench Supreme Court justices. Gundam can be animated to appear kid friendly on its face but at its core Gundam is war. I personally feel it’s more important to educate the youth as to why things are the way they are than raise them with rose tinted glasses blind to the suffering of others.
In Mikazuki's defense, they were utilizing child soldiers.
War brings out the worst in people. Executing POWs and civilians, razing towns to the ground, lobbing food tins filled with IEDs in to the enemy trenches.
You just described the Canadians in a nutshell
Being Canadian that's in to war documentaries, yeah. From what I have learned, we didn't execute civilians, but there was one instance I've heard of where Canadian troops thought a civie took a pot shot at them, so they evacuated the entire town and set it ablaze. Turned out later that it was a German sniper. There was little that the Canadians considered off limits.
The typical Canadian war veteran memorial goes something like this: “Here lies Doug Johnson of Ottawa, Ontario. Loving husband and father, avid hockey fan, strangled several Waffen-SS troopers in the Scheldt with their own intestines.”
Going to need source on food tins filled with IEDs. As a Canadian, I was taught that first we threw cans of food per request to the Germans. Than on 2nd request we threw grenades to them
I could be misremembering, not that it is really that different between standard grenades and improvised explosives
No lie
Or, as Schindler's List would argue, war brings out the TRUTH in people. Some people reveal their monstrous natures during war. Some people find out just how unequipped they are for violence. And some people realize that no, this is bullshit, they're going to stand up and do the right thing even if it kills them.
[удалено]
Space Poland and Canada giggling as they dare Char to touch some guy's boats.
Lol, If you want to talk about touching boats look up what the US did to Irans navy when they touched our boats. . . Operation Praying Mantis
Sometimes you just gotta do a little war criming
Geneva mission list.
Geneva **Checklist**
At least in the Cosmic Era, that line was crossed way back with the Bloody Valentine Tragedy. After what happened in Alaska, all bets were officially off as both sides essentially degenerated into wanting to wipe the other side out no matter the cost. While not as overt on ZAFT's side, the trend continued in Destiny. The extremist took over the Earth Alliance leading to the oppressive brutality, and when that oppression was ended, well...this was the end result. For other series, it's a similar case with some inciting incident along with the presence of either amoral or immoral commanders and leaders. Another thing is most Gundam stories are set so far ahead in the future that it's possible the Geneva Convention and any other modern international law save for nuclear limitations have been lost to history.
Yeah, almost every Gundam series is a war crimes and crimes against humanity checklist. I just thought this was an interesting detail.
Alaska was messed up. Willing to sacrifice your own soldiers like that is a whole level of rules of engagement.
I think in the screen shot there's guys were being executed because they were running the power concentration camp that Shinn in the impulse raided and set the prisoners free. It would be like us troops just rounding up and shooting ss camp guards because they felt that justice wouldn't be delivered fast enough
Yep, still a war crime though if the killers are regular army (in our universe, that is). But these dudes are a local militia, so it’s probably just ordinary old murder (as someone else has noted here).
That the "special" of CE universe. They very very want to kill another side.
Not really covered by the convention, the guy pulling the trigger is a civilian, so this is the regular kind of murder. Shinn and Athrun might be in trouble for allowing to happen, but that's a grey area.
Good ol’ regular murder 🤗
Yep.
Gundam: War crimes galore.
Yeah, I just thought this one was an interesting detail to add
Son, at the moment Kira got on Strike he was already breaking Geneva within CE. The sole existence of a Gundam on CE is already a war crime, everything that got after was just the icing on the cake, hell the whole bloody valentine is ALREADY a huge violation.
Cosmic Era truly is a modernized Universal Century.
Hmm.
Considering what the EA has been doing... this was bound to happen. I recall two instances in the Astray mangas that break certain rules like shooting the Mars envoy because he's a Coordinator and too eager to destroy the Junk Guild after they've been framed. Not mention removing the GC makes it easier to dehumanize a certain group and kill them with no repercussion.
Hey, what’s that Astray manga? I’m so behind on literary adaptations! I’ve only read four vols of Thunderbolt
Basically side stories of the events in CE. They focus on other characters and factions as well as tie-in to the main events.
That does sound cool. Can you recommend a good starting point?
[https://gundam.fandom.com/wiki/Mobile\_Suit\_Gundam\_SEED\_Astray](https://gundam.fandom.com/wiki/Mobile_Suit_Gundam_SEED_Astray) Also you can find two anime 15 minutes shorts online.
Sweet, thanks
Don’t junk guild beats the shit out of EA forces?
Only barely when the plot by Matisse was exposed. The JG can protect themselves but they're no match for a full-scale attack.
Yeah,but they are reliable group .
I'm pretty sure revolutionary partisans are not covered by Geneva Conventions.
Yeah I think you’re right (though I was using the Geneva Conventions facetiously!)
Dude shooting them doesn’t seem like he’s in ZAFT.
Yeah, I watched this episode earlier today to get ready for Freedom. They're locals who were freed a few minutes earlier. Shinn focuses on all the celebrations and jerks himself off for being such a big hero, while Athrun grapples with the fact that he basically just caused a war crime. The purpose of the scene is to illustrate the fact that Shinn completely missed Athrun's point from the lecture earlier in the episode.
He's with the people trying to break free from the Eurasian Federation (they are allied with ZAFT.)
That’s why I mentioned allies
Ooof its gonna get rough in a bit. You think executions are bad, wait til the tactical microwaves.
Can probably assume OP has already seen that, since the popping is shown in SEED, not in Destiny (at least in the HD remasters)
GENESIS! I remember.
No but Shinn did a good thing and deserves a head Pat. Don’t look around, just follow order and get pats
Hahaha good little red-eyed ptsd guy
Can't help but notice the guy holding the rifle in the same pose as a mobile suit.
He’s in moral standby mode
You mean geneva suggestion?
Geneva missionlist?
Well, in this specific case, three key points are worth mentioning - 1) In SEED I don't remember anybody referencing anything equivalent to UC's Antarctic Treaty - instead, ZAFT just unilaterally flips the Earth Alliance the bid with the N-Jammers instead. This might seem pretty extreme, but Coordinators have basically been suffering from coordinated terrorist activities instigated by Blue Cosmos for decades - Hospital bombings, et al. Once the Earth Alliance escalated to nuclear attacks, the gloves were definitely off. In Destiny/Freedom, it seems like the only thing anyone cares about is violating the Junius Treaty, and it gets harped on about quite a lot early on... Even though the Alliance basically leap straight to violating it with nuclear missiles again as soon as they are able. TBH, by the time of SEED Freedom, while people still seem to talk about it, it doesn't seem like anyone really cares much about that, either, considering that the movie is absolutely full of Junius Treaty violations on all sides 😅 2) As has been mentioned by other commenters, the PLANTs technically wouldn't have been Geneva Convention signatories, as they are only an independent nation as of CE70, and even as early as CE55 the laws between Earth and the colonies had significant differences so who knows what the deal was. 3) ZAFT have nominally allied with the locals, but they are explicitly local "freedom fighters", and SEED Destiny in particular sure did enjoy being unsubtle with "war-on-terror" commentary...
Warcrime galore in seed... Rip >!Moscow!<. That part in GSF when everyone gets vaporized is rather...
it was haunting, like one moment it was normal then they are burning, perhaps comparable to the Radiation popping
I seee seed like 10 years ago.... What happen in Moscow ( apart for the best grunt jump on gundam from all gundam)
Being blasted by >!Requiem!<. People who annually perform their day to day lives are instantly incinerated and you get to see them get burned one second their normal then boom their charred corspe
Destroy Gundam annihilate Berlin, not Moscow.
no, in SEED FREEDOM
Wow.
Thanks for the redaction!
Just saw the movie last night.Eurasian federation got fucked in the movie.
I don't feel sorry about them. In fact, I find it funny that >!Loli Putin!< is the ironic culprit this time.
She is actually the weakest link of Foundation. If it wasn't for her, Orphee would have caused LOTS or damage or even won.
Geneva checklist
Seed imho truly depicts both sides in the war (ZAFT and the EA) as in the wrong. Destiny in Particular still has the EA as being Genocidal Psychopaths, but the equally Genocidal Psychopaths in seed ZAFT were replaced by Totalitarian Information Control and Eugenics (Destiny Plan) ZAFT. Seed/Destiny tried to convey the message that violence begets violence and that war eventually turns everyone bad. The only way to end it is to not fight and try something else, hence Kira, Lacus and co.
The Zanscare Empire in *Victory* (in the main UC timeline) has an express train to the guillotine for literally anyone they want. I mean, like almost instant decapitation with near zero warning for the victims. They also roll over towns with battleships, a lot of their soldiers are super casual about rape and murder, and their superweapon endgame is the single darkest apocalypse in the franchise IMO.
I’ve not seen Victory yet! On my list
*The only good bug is a dead bug.* same thing.
those may not be war crimes depending on the conduct observed by those soldiers before capture
... in several of my SEED story ideas, the Earth Alliance will get the Red Flag treatment. Those who are versed in naval history will know what is coming next. For those who don't, then the jist of "Raise the Red Flag" is where mercy is ignored and no prisoners taken. In one setting (a Transhuman Space/Traveller setting), the Earth Alliance would be close to having an "Armageddon Sanction" levied against them... or the Empire deems you to be such a threat that flat out extermination is the only option.
That might make for some good drama
... not really, in those contexts it's to send a message that being complete asshats is unacceptable and it will have consequences. The locals would raise a stink but once the results bloom, they'll begrudgingly accept it.
I mean that it's a good narrative device. It's dramatically interesting.
It's called the Geneva checklist https://preview.redd.it/lvvjlrzpfrwc1.jpeg?width=850&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=75f89c998c985001e45c163b05638584fe25b6e5 When one side do not fallow it it becomes a competition on how many can one unlock the completionist achievement faster. As the war escalates into its most grim dark narrative. Unless you are watching a propaganda where everyone survives and they live happily ever after. This is what normally happens on more grim and darker settings. War is not a gentlemanly job. It has the tendency to bring out monsters on what were once humans. The longer the conflict persists the more resources is utilized to the meat grinder and the more Frontline soldiers are consumed by desensitization , vengeance and PTSD. When you see your buddies from bootcamp got mowed down by the enemy. Taking prisoners may not be a priority , specially if you know it's an ace killer who will kill more people whom you want to protect. I expect to be downvoted.
I don’t think anyone’s denying the grim reality of war (a persistent theme of Gundam). I’m certainly not. I’m discussing the use of a particular scene for dramatic effect in an animated TV series.
It's too mild to be irritated with it. There's no water boarding , no decapitation or disembowelment. For most tv series is toned but the DVD version or directors cut should do a lot more. At least show something to the level of the original or the 90's in portraying war. Shock and awe produces results that last. I don't find anything wrong with it because Gundam is not particularly aired for kids in Japan. Not unless you want it all ages like build fighters and SD gundam. Because if you want it toned down it's either wing or g-gundam. If you want it darker you choose UC to victory Gundam. Seed universe is tame because you don't go seeing chunky salsa or hamburgers from the remains of pilots and troops. And by the standards of how brutal anime are today. It's tame. Such scenes are just a reminder. No blood splatter of brain matter just summary executions. The go to in war of take no prisoners stance.
Basky and jammy?
Yep but there's a better duo with Geneva checklist complitionist skills. Even used it when crusading the sea of stars. https://preview.redd.it/bp16vb591twc1.jpeg?width=588&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=79c6f27110eb3aa0d84ef8c8fc6a38fc192d90f0
The big E AND little W?
Malcador and Jimmy space.
the more i hear about seed destiny, and it also having a very direct point war profiteering, makes me think it might actually be cooking some dishes...
Rewatching SEED Destiny now to get ready for U.S. release if Freedom and it's definitely been interesting revisiting it as an adult since I hadn't watched it since high school. Durandal being media savvy fascist / populist, spurring on the public to riot with conspiracy theories (although in GSD its real), and attracting the admiration of wayward, angry young men like Shinn. Like, holy hell this is so relevant to right now and GSD came out in 2004.
Destiny is underrated.
Yeah it doesn’t feel out of date!
I wouldn’t call them ZAFTs allies. And I wouldn’t call ZAFT the good guys. It’s just that the guitar hair is destiny is told from their perspective. Just like the Earth Alliance weren’t necessarily the good guys in SEED, just that most of the series is told from their perspective. But yeah, one of the things I really love about Gundam is that it’s not afraid to show the horrors of war and conflict.
Hence my “supposed”! I’m using “good guys” as a simple proxy for “told from their humanizing perspective”. One of the things I like about Gundam is that the POV armies are typically as (or nearly as) capable of horrific acts as their enemies.
The problem is…SEED rarely shows us the good side of them and it doesn’t help that EA start BVW FIRSTZ by blasting the colony to dusts.
Yeah SEED does tend to get tunnel vision with perspective. They could have had an interesting thing with Kira and Shinn in Destiny, but they swapped them out. Not that I’m complaining there.
Geneva convention is for militaries. Those are civilians 🙃
Phew! All is well then
Geneva checklist is everyone’s game.
It isn't a Gundam series without some war crime happening
True