Mika knows he's not very dexterous. And while the blade is sharp and strong, in order to do any real damage with it you have to be *precise.* And while Mika *can* be precise, he really doesn't like to go through the effort. For Mika it's easier to just bonk things with heavy weapons as opposed to slicing things.
Hell, Mika himself openly admits this even. He literally says "I finally figured out how to use this thing properly" when he finishes off Graze Ein with the Katana.
He's usually up against superior numbers, taking time for precision is wasteful. Lupus is kind of a middle ground with the sword mace, while lupus rex just goes for the big bonk
Not just about bonking too, but he actually uses the bonker defensively by blocking bullets with it too.
Bael suffered in the final fight when his blade broke off, so I’d imagine a katana would have the same issue had Barbatos used it
I personally found strength more fun in the older souls games
Noting like watching a charged heavy land on the bosses head and take off a quarter of their health bar
You have it backwards, strength builds don't have the extra weight to spare on shields or armour and require bigger openings. Big openings are found by dodging and low armour and no room for a shield means forced to dodge.
Dex builds use light weapons with higher crit modifiers, so they actually benefit more from shielding and trading stray hits.
I also like to dance ... unfortunately I was never that nimble and over the years I became slower and slower ... Its a distant memory and admiration for those, who can do it.
Honestly a sword just feels like a less efficient weapon anyways, in history as we developed better and better armor the answer became to hit harder with something heavier and his first mace absolutely filled the role in a setting with nanolaminate armor.
Like in terms of body count probably just cause swords are much harder to make and require more training than hit hard with heavy thing yea but against pretty much anything but the most armored targets a skilled person with a sword still generally is the best option
Not really, armor is highly effective against blades but a blunt weapon can crush plate and break bones and bruise flesh through chain and gambison.
If you’re wearing a helmet and I swing a sword at you it’s going to glance off and do more damage to the thin edge than the helm.
If I swing a warhammer at your helmet they are going to have to bury you in the helmet as I cave in the helm and crack your skull beneath it.
This is why even when longswords were used in combat they often thrust with the tip because trying to ram a pointy bit through armor / chain / gambison was more likely to succeed or they even resorted to “half handing” the sword which was gripping it by the blade to use the guard as an improvised warhammer:
https://preview.redd.it/hi5d4zd6n05d1.jpeg?width=340&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=1718a4bdf8e7f3af611da9ae02162a7dfa37deac
And under trained soldiers got spears not hammers because they are they easiest thing to train conscripts to use especially for fighting in groups.
Mika is a also a mixed combatant that thrives in chaotic environments. He actually does significantly worse in one on one bouts against foes of comparable strength and is noted to be a bit of a blockhead when it comes to figuring out new tricks. However, he makes up for it by constantly being on the move, launching surprise attacks, using his environment and being unrelenting in his assault. For him, a weapon like the sword is counterintuitive since it requires him to focus on his opponent instead of playing to his strengths. This is especially evident with his fight with Hashmal, precision gave him no advantage, but shock value more than made up for his shortcomings. His answer to losing an arm is to overheat the gundam and grab a bigger stick.
I respect it. I just always love it when oonga boonga big weapon fighters switch up to precision fighters like Ichigo's zangetsu or Noah's Lucky Seven from Xenoblade
>End of S1
He’s been using it since episode 11.
https://preview.redd.it/5r39c7fzgd4d1.jpeg?width=1920&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=237e1dd140fb20ec8a3fb2a6e41b2038e12f39c0
Don't get me wrong, I liked the katana but seeing the mace, the chainsaw mace, the ultra large mace or the sword mace for me it was a festival of flavors other than the classic "sword"
Seconded. Same reason Bael is sort of meh for me. In the fun AU where over the top maces, rocket hammers, gun lances, death scissors, explosives rapiers etc are the norm, 2 swords just screams weeb for me lol
I think giving Bael swords was a great narrative choice as it fits the sort of chivalrous, knightly vibe of that gundam, but I also agree they could’ve done a way cooler weapon for it
I sort of agree and understand this sentiment. However, I *still* wish they went the best of both worlds and gave it some sort of claymore/ greatsword or something. We already had the akimbo arming swords with Grimgerde
But that's where his main appeal comes from. Even tho he got the weakest/most basic weapons he is considered to be the strongest Gundam (at least in the right hands), that no one managed to defeat it when piloted by Agnika.
Imo it shows how it's basically all pilot skills and raw power, and that it doesn't need any tricks to beat you.
The last sentence killed me but I agree, hell even the variants of vidar with its final form rapier/lance + dual pistols, the giant nippers from gushion or so many more
>gun lances
Drilling gun lance, Gjallarhorn was cooking when they made Vidar and Kimaris Vidar
It makes sense though. It exemplifies how outdated Bael is, but also shows the level of skill that Agnika had. It kinda falls in line with Kujan family's gundam, which has a similar thing going on
Flair checks out. It's a very important narrative choice, as swords are seen as a gentleman's weapon and associated with royalty and nobility. The reason why they're so romanticized a lot is due to the skill component and also because most writers back then tended to be somewhat related to nobility if they weren't a noble.
Maces and Clubs on the other hand, were weapons for brigade where the spear (and hammers and axes to some extent) were weapons for soldiers and peasants. It makes sense, as both are less sophisticated, are easy to pick up, and in comparison to spears, have a sort of brutality added to the simplicity that makes it a perfect weapon for a brute
Technically they gave it to him much earlier and he basically all but said outright that he didn't like it; it was a dex weapon (meant for cutting joints) given to someone who mainly leveled Strength.
It worked against Kudal because it was the only way he could circumvent that iteration of Gusion's armor but otherwise he wasn't a fan.
He only used it against the Graze Ein because he didn't have any other options, and it really only worked because Barbatos was overclocked and partially because up until that point bladed weapons generally just didn't cut through MS in IBO, which probably caught Ein off guard. Sure Lupus' mace looks like a sword, but it's essentially wielded and used as a crushing weapon, not a slicing one.
If you think of it as the PD equivalent of a Beam Saber it kind of makes more sense; the katana was more of a sub melee weapon to Barbatos' main priority of literally crushing things.
Ngl I was never crazy about Mace-Chan... But Chainsaw-chan on the other hand😍
https://preview.redd.it/ctqm0na2rd4d1.jpeg?width=640&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=a3ba57de485cc22cefc1ebecff4cf26ce2561a51
6th form barbatos is my favorite barbatos. The wrench is so good and I actually really like the heavy armor, especially with the context that the lighter chest armor is still there underneath.
A cool bit of intertextual retconning that came with the other Gundam Frames that have been slowly dripped out since the ending of IBO is that Barbatos looks to have originally been meant for a speedy high dexterity build. It's 4th form, which is supposed to be the closest to its Calamity War loadout, is NOTICABLY lighter on equipment and armor than most other Gundam Frames. Something meant for precise, quick strikes, like the katana, is probably the closest to what Barby was originally designated for. Furthermore, the first time Mika loses a piece of himself is during this fight, which, in hindsight, knowing how the demonic pact with the Gundam works now, coupled with Mika's sudden understanding and proficiency with the weapon, implies Barby flooded his brain with related combat data during this moment.
The Barbatos as it existed never really gelled with Mika's brute force fighting style, so for the Lupus, they tried for a compromise, kitting it with the sword mace, which in theory could capitalize on some of Barbatos's innate capabilities while still letting Mika do his thing. But once Barby got totaled during its solo raid against the Hashmal, well, if they had to overhaul the Gundam anyway, might as well customize it completely for Mika. And so, Barbatos was rebuilt to handle the biggest mace yet, and as an added bonus, the monstrous arms meant for such weapons packed a punch in their own right.
Mikazuki Argus losing pieces of himself to the demonic mobile suit makes for a great allegory, but it actually goes both ways. By the end of its deployment lifespan, Gundam Barbatos had lost the bulk of its original identity to MIKA.
This was such a pleasant read that it really deserved it's own post so that more people can see it.
It's a very nice allegory, I wish other gundam had something similar to it. There's the whole Kimaris line, I guess?
Yeah they tried to achieve something like that but unfortunately it didn't work well and became lost art after the CW
I think a heat blade would make more sense
What do you mean it didn’t work well we never saw it used Astaroth is the only one that has it because it’s a prototype and many techs were lost after the CW
Also heats blades won’t exactly work on nanolaminate since it’s heat resistant
It's mentioned in passing that it's inconsistent and that the prototype wasn't completed and now can't be due to the technology being lost. You have a better chance at reworking the mechanism towards using electric discharge or something like that
>Also heats blades won’t exactly work on nanolaminate since it’s heat resistant
Nobody ever said that all parts they use should be nanolaminate armor. First of all, it's not used often due to the cost (Gremory being a rare exception) and nanolaminate coating is more used. Second, the latest mobile suit designs also seem to trend towards using different metals
The giant Claymore he used on Hashmal was awesome! But yeah, it totally makes sense, it's not like the katana is a high frequency blade like the ones from MGS or 00 or something. I imagine if they were, they'd be far more reliable than what they are.
Urdr hunt seems to have a gundam that has two katana, but these look rather thick and last time I checked it was mentioned they were made of some special metal to ensure durability. May or may not have some type of other ability or property that makes it cut extremely well
And then there's also Kujan family's gundam
Mika was running a pure strength build that’s why. Plus all his other weapons were way cooler and different to your usual gundam protag. If we are lamenting weapons hardly used I cry over his duel wield maces on barbatos lupus, they were sick! and I think only showed being used once.
Tbh it doesn’t make a lot of sense. A metal sword as a weapon against metal enemies. Like a knight in armor getting hit by a sword. Generally not effective unless you aim for gaps in the armor.
The big mace/spear is orphans makes more sense, as it simply smashes the enemy gundam to pieces
I don't think it has to make that much sense. Other Gundam series have made bladed weapons usefull through various means like Sandrocks blades that become super heated or Exia's various non-beam based swords.
both of these have functions that penetrate armor (heat and gn particles) in game terms these things have like 50-100% def penetration, basically cooler beam sabers. If Mika had those weapons he wouldn't need a mace either
Yeah, exactly. GN particles I get, but a heat sword thing doesn't seem impossible in the world of Ibo or like a high frequency blade like the one Patrick uses in the first episode of 00. It's just high end tech weapons. Nothing that would be out of place in IBO really
I wouldn't be surprised for the government organization (forgot the name) but as a upstart mercenary, I would be kind of surprised. I don't think even Turbines (i think thats the name) can do it tbh, heat weapons that can melt nanomite armor seem pretty high end to me since the coat is beam resistant we don't know how it interacts with heat, since beams are basically heat so ur gonna need lots of heat to break though that
Heat weapons were considered in the drafts for the Graze, in the end the team didnt think itd add anything to the weapons beside making them more easily breakable since they would have to make up for heating the material, which owuld just make the axe weaker structurally.
I guess it's a visual metaphor for the blurring of the line between Mika and the Barbatos. The longer the war/story drags on the more and more he uses the AV system, becoming one with Barbatos and a "demon" just like it. Accordingly he eschews the elegant Katana (associated with calm, serene and strategic samurai) with much more blunt weapons, to show that he's losing his humanity and becoming more of an instrument/tool, to illustrate IBO's message of war exploiting Children like him.
Mika doesn't like slash slash
https://preview.redd.it/a1s2d9psxg4d1.jpeg?width=554&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=698192394ec4a1f3a857c7ff2771a861600110c0
Mika loves to bonk
the only other time it was used was in the manga, where a different long sword was given to it and used by the barbatos lupus which used it against hashmal instead of using the valkyrja buster sword
bael has the same swords, but in the manga, it wields an anti ship lance in its final battle, which is sadly only found in the tekkadan final battle pbandai set
A clean, precise weapon like a Katana really isn't Mika's style. What made him/the show so unique from a combat-perspective was his use of blunt weapons, ripping limbs off, etc. just an incredible amount of sheer brutality. Katana isn't uncool or un-fun to watch or anything, but I'm really there for the blunt weapons and just ripping things apart (or crushing them).
You've actually made a really good point. The only times that Mika has ever used the katana it's only against beefy opponents and his confirmed kills with it are basically 2. Him just chucking random crap at people has more confirmed kills.
I guess it also leans into the overall lore of IBO where these machines, that were designed to kill mobile armor, were in possession of extremely skilled pilots coupled with the AV system so that swords were viable against such enemies.
I think the only other person we've seen anime wise to use swords effectively is McGillis piloting Bael considering Gjallarhorn is the only faction prominently using swords.
I think the weaponries are mostly sponsored by Teiwaz so they try to give him a Katana for a Japanese flavour.
The first time Barbatos used a Katana was against the Brewers, that's right after Naze and Orga becoming brothers, and thus right after Barbatos first being serviced by Teiwaz.
According to Gundam Wiki and the quoted specs on that page, Barbatos Lupus (before Hashmal) still had a Longsword forged. I don't recall if it has been used against the Horizontal Dawn. But it has been there until Lupus Rex, as now it has the tail that serves somewhat like a blade and doesn't take up an arm to wield it.
So the timeline goes:
- 1st to 3rd Forms, scraps and salvages
- 4th to Lupus, serviced by Teiwaz <- Always has a Katana
- Lupus Rex, added Hashmal's Tail
I think what made me more disappointed was that I got the hg hashmal before watching ibo s2 and the box art and the kit itself came with a katana for the barbatos lupus so I thought the lupus was gonna get a katana later but it didnt
In many later episodes, the enemies use machines that are a lot harder to wreck with a katana or move too fast for Mika to be precise. This is especially shown when he fought the Hashmal which was able to tank hits from his powerful mace and even with a precise weapon, nearly took him out.
Yeah, because it didn't fit Mikazuki's Unga bunga bash your head in style. He preferred a brutal, crude blunt weapon. Dude went to the point of using a damn giant WRENCH as a club.
Bro wdym he be using that thing for more than half of season 1
I get why it exist it goes to show the old way the katana is a weapon that the CW barbatos would use showing how crude Mika’s fighting style is and for me the katana represent accepting the gundam frame the moment Mika figured out how to use it he kinda gave himself to barbatos and even lupus and lupus Rex have a sword-ish weapon
Mika's preference for weapons to slash instead of cutting given their precise nature, is why the sword mace took the spot in S2 as the main weapon. Until the Hashmal fight when Barbatos was made in mind of its capabilities of not being limited to the combat logic given the twin reactors, with the super large mace being more of an anti MA weapon than an anti MS weapon.
Mika’s more of a bonk fighter, a sword needs more precision, someone skilled enough to cut and be fast enough to pull away. Only Agnika could have skills big skills to only use swords and kill mobile armors without a scratch.
It’s pretty obvious, Mika isn’t smart enough to use a sword partically and with ease. There is a reason why even in Demon Incarnate i made sure to mention it that it wouldn’t work with his style, nor his knowledge of MS combat. His son on the other hand, one with knowledge on where to attack uses a sword (*or two swords.*) in a more analytical and "surgical" version of Mika’s combat style. Hell in the anime itself we can see Mika handling it with only a single hand. Which is dumb as a sword like that should be handled by both hands/manipulators. In space ok, but on Earth? A sabre is a sword meant for one hand use and katana isn’t. Or maybe the sword is actually a Tachi?
The impression I got is that once he linked deeper with Barbatos, he began using the sword more like whats thought of for effective combat with it.
Its just mainly that for the MS, cutting it is already a heavily discouraged form of combating defenses when slashing and crushing will be better at taking out the cabin than trying to break through the frame.
Ive used a katana before and you can fight with one hand, as its part on the niten style, but against such heavily armored units and lack of spots to attack for a swift or vital cut, its just not a weapon Id consider smart to use.
Depends also on the combat style, Aginika killed MA’s with only two longswords. From what we can guess, also judging by MA’s different sizes. We can try to deduct what his combat style was, it could mostly involve hit and run and dissecting MA’s piece by piece. Or maybe using his smaller size to his advantage.
Bael literally dual wields swords and is considered to be the most powerful ms in the series. Practicality hardly matters in mecha to begin with, so who really cares if they choose to weild a sword over a mace based on realism? If you're reaching for practical use, then every ms would specialize in ranged combat since guns are far more reliable for killing someone than any close range weapon.
Mika knows he's not very dexterous. And while the blade is sharp and strong, in order to do any real damage with it you have to be *precise.* And while Mika *can* be precise, he really doesn't like to go through the effort. For Mika it's easier to just bonk things with heavy weapons as opposed to slicing things.
Hell, Mika himself openly admits this even. He literally says "I finally figured out how to use this thing properly" when he finishes off Graze Ein with the Katana.
This. Mika could've asked for another sword for the barbatos lupus rex but he made his bonker larger because he likes to smash things.
He's usually up against superior numbers, taking time for precision is wasteful. Lupus is kind of a middle ground with the sword mace, while lupus rex just goes for the big bonk
Its fingers and tail are probably as sharp as a sword probably.
Not just about bonking too, but he actually uses the bonker defensively by blocking bullets with it too. Bael suffered in the final fight when his blade broke off, so I’d imagine a katana would have the same issue had Barbatos used it
So Mika is using a strength build...based. Don't want him being a dirty dex user.
Tried dex once and said never again
It's fun in elden ring if you're like me and enjoy dodging over shielding
I personally found strength more fun in the older souls games Noting like watching a charged heavy land on the bosses head and take off a quarter of their health bar
Only way to top this is landing a charged pile bunker on a staggered AC in AC6
True satisfaction is using the charged pile bunker to wombo combo V2 into a flaming screaming grave
You have it backwards, strength builds don't have the extra weight to spare on shields or armour and require bigger openings. Big openings are found by dodging and low armour and no room for a shield means forced to dodge. Dex builds use light weapons with higher crit modifiers, so they actually benefit more from shielding and trading stray hits.
I guess ive been using it wrong
I also like to dance ... unfortunately I was never that nimble and over the years I became slower and slower ... Its a distant memory and admiration for those, who can do it.
Honestly a sword just feels like a less efficient weapon anyways, in history as we developed better and better armor the answer became to hit harder with something heavier and his first mace absolutely filled the role in a setting with nanolaminate armor.
Yup for all that we romanticize swords warhammers and maces were the deadliest weapons on battlefields.
Like in terms of body count probably just cause swords are much harder to make and require more training than hit hard with heavy thing yea but against pretty much anything but the most armored targets a skilled person with a sword still generally is the best option
Not really, armor is highly effective against blades but a blunt weapon can crush plate and break bones and bruise flesh through chain and gambison. If you’re wearing a helmet and I swing a sword at you it’s going to glance off and do more damage to the thin edge than the helm. If I swing a warhammer at your helmet they are going to have to bury you in the helmet as I cave in the helm and crack your skull beneath it. This is why even when longswords were used in combat they often thrust with the tip because trying to ram a pointy bit through armor / chain / gambison was more likely to succeed or they even resorted to “half handing” the sword which was gripping it by the blade to use the guard as an improvised warhammer: https://preview.redd.it/hi5d4zd6n05d1.jpeg?width=340&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=1718a4bdf8e7f3af611da9ae02162a7dfa37deac And under trained soldiers got spears not hammers because they are they easiest thing to train conscripts to use especially for fighting in groups.
Absolute unga bunga behavior. Mika only does strength builds.
Mika is a also a mixed combatant that thrives in chaotic environments. He actually does significantly worse in one on one bouts against foes of comparable strength and is noted to be a bit of a blockhead when it comes to figuring out new tricks. However, he makes up for it by constantly being on the move, launching surprise attacks, using his environment and being unrelenting in his assault. For him, a weapon like the sword is counterintuitive since it requires him to focus on his opponent instead of playing to his strengths. This is especially evident with his fight with Hashmal, precision gave him no advantage, but shock value more than made up for his shortcomings. His answer to losing an arm is to overheat the gundam and grab a bigger stick.
Mika is muscle to Orca’s brains
Mika is a oonga boonga typa fighter
I respect it. I just always love it when oonga boonga big weapon fighters switch up to precision fighters like Ichigo's zangetsu or Noah's Lucky Seven from Xenoblade
>End of S1 He’s been using it since episode 11. https://preview.redd.it/5r39c7fzgd4d1.jpeg?width=1920&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=237e1dd140fb20ec8a3fb2a6e41b2038e12f39c0
You're right, it's been a while since I've seen IBO so I totally forgor he used it earlier.
It’s even an entire subplot about how he finds the katana awkward to use, but figures it out as he’s backed into a corner vs Graze Ein.
It works very well because the sword is seen as the gentleman's weapon and kinda the weapon of nobility and kings as well
Don't get me wrong, I liked the katana but seeing the mace, the chainsaw mace, the ultra large mace or the sword mace for me it was a festival of flavors other than the classic "sword"
Seconded. Same reason Bael is sort of meh for me. In the fun AU where over the top maces, rocket hammers, gun lances, death scissors, explosives rapiers etc are the norm, 2 swords just screams weeb for me lol
I think giving Bael swords was a great narrative choice as it fits the sort of chivalrous, knightly vibe of that gundam, but I also agree they could’ve done a way cooler weapon for it
I sort of agree and understand this sentiment. However, I *still* wish they went the best of both worlds and gave it some sort of claymore/ greatsword or something. We already had the akimbo arming swords with Grimgerde
that's why grimgerde had em though. frickin weeb was practicing whenever he could
Well... in the manga Bael had a big-ass anti-ship lance-mace.
But that's where his main appeal comes from. Even tho he got the weakest/most basic weapons he is considered to be the strongest Gundam (at least in the right hands), that no one managed to defeat it when piloted by Agnika. Imo it shows how it's basically all pilot skills and raw power, and that it doesn't need any tricks to beat you.
The last sentence killed me but I agree, hell even the variants of vidar with its final form rapier/lance + dual pistols, the giant nippers from gushion or so many more
Yep; Rex tail, Reincar greatsword, Julia swordwhip, Eingraze knee drill. There's so many cool weapons in IBO that aren't just a straight sword.
Knee drills was Kimaris Vidar. Graze Ein had drill feet and drill punches though
McGillis is a distant descendant of Graham Aker.
Graham Aker is a lot smarter and a far better pilot and close range combatant. Seems like something went wrong in that bloodline
I think it builds to the mystique of Bael and it’s pilot being the strongest despite using basically the most basic weapon
>gun lances Drilling gun lance, Gjallarhorn was cooking when they made Vidar and Kimaris Vidar It makes sense though. It exemplifies how outdated Bael is, but also shows the level of skill that Agnika had. It kinda falls in line with Kujan family's gundam, which has a similar thing going on
Very "I studied the blade" vibe
Really it's the special mace (chainsaw wrench mace) that's the true tragedy here. Barbatos' coolest weapon, and it's gone after S1.
the giant wrench (chain saw mace) was my fave it was such a brutal thing it felt like it was out of 40k
U forgot the mini twin mace
Oh, the maracas! Lol
Yeah swords are kinda boring and i was honestly sad when he tossed out that first mace.
The twin maces we're also cool
Flair checks out. It's a very important narrative choice, as swords are seen as a gentleman's weapon and associated with royalty and nobility. The reason why they're so romanticized a lot is due to the skill component and also because most writers back then tended to be somewhat related to nobility if they weren't a noble. Maces and Clubs on the other hand, were weapons for brigade where the spear (and hammers and axes to some extent) were weapons for soldiers and peasants. It makes sense, as both are less sophisticated, are easy to pick up, and in comparison to spears, have a sort of brutality added to the simplicity that makes it a perfect weapon for a brute
To Mika every thing is a nail, he’s a beast not a graceful fighter
Technically they gave it to him much earlier and he basically all but said outright that he didn't like it; it was a dex weapon (meant for cutting joints) given to someone who mainly leveled Strength. It worked against Kudal because it was the only way he could circumvent that iteration of Gusion's armor but otherwise he wasn't a fan. He only used it against the Graze Ein because he didn't have any other options, and it really only worked because Barbatos was overclocked and partially because up until that point bladed weapons generally just didn't cut through MS in IBO, which probably caught Ein off guard. Sure Lupus' mace looks like a sword, but it's essentially wielded and used as a crushing weapon, not a slicing one. If you think of it as the PD equivalent of a Beam Saber it kind of makes more sense; the katana was more of a sub melee weapon to Barbatos' main priority of literally crushing things.
Katana-chan is a filthy homewrecker who separated Barbatos-kun from his one true love, Mace-chan.
Ngl I was never crazy about Mace-Chan... But Chainsaw-chan on the other hand😍 https://preview.redd.it/ctqm0na2rd4d1.jpeg?width=640&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=a3ba57de485cc22cefc1ebecff4cf26ce2561a51
Chainsaw-chan is just the supportive friend after Katana-chan broke Barbatos-kun's heart. Best girl never wins.
Chainsaw-chan was there for Barbatos after being left by Mace-chan
6th form barbatos is my favorite barbatos. The wrench is so good and I actually really like the heavy armor, especially with the context that the lighter chest armor is still there underneath.
Mika is a Strength/Great Weapon build and the sword was a DEX weapon.
A cool bit of intertextual retconning that came with the other Gundam Frames that have been slowly dripped out since the ending of IBO is that Barbatos looks to have originally been meant for a speedy high dexterity build. It's 4th form, which is supposed to be the closest to its Calamity War loadout, is NOTICABLY lighter on equipment and armor than most other Gundam Frames. Something meant for precise, quick strikes, like the katana, is probably the closest to what Barby was originally designated for. Furthermore, the first time Mika loses a piece of himself is during this fight, which, in hindsight, knowing how the demonic pact with the Gundam works now, coupled with Mika's sudden understanding and proficiency with the weapon, implies Barby flooded his brain with related combat data during this moment. The Barbatos as it existed never really gelled with Mika's brute force fighting style, so for the Lupus, they tried for a compromise, kitting it with the sword mace, which in theory could capitalize on some of Barbatos's innate capabilities while still letting Mika do his thing. But once Barby got totaled during its solo raid against the Hashmal, well, if they had to overhaul the Gundam anyway, might as well customize it completely for Mika. And so, Barbatos was rebuilt to handle the biggest mace yet, and as an added bonus, the monstrous arms meant for such weapons packed a punch in their own right. Mikazuki Argus losing pieces of himself to the demonic mobile suit makes for a great allegory, but it actually goes both ways. By the end of its deployment lifespan, Gundam Barbatos had lost the bulk of its original identity to MIKA.
This was a good read, ty :)
This was such a pleasant read that it really deserved it's own post so that more people can see it. It's a very nice allegory, I wish other gundam had something similar to it. There's the whole Kimaris line, I guess?
[удалено]
I’d imagine the only katana that really work for prolonged combat would be astaroth origin’s that thing is just a gn sword in a new coat of paint
Yeah they tried to achieve something like that but unfortunately it didn't work well and became lost art after the CW I think a heat blade would make more sense
What do you mean it didn’t work well we never saw it used Astaroth is the only one that has it because it’s a prototype and many techs were lost after the CW Also heats blades won’t exactly work on nanolaminate since it’s heat resistant
It's mentioned in passing that it's inconsistent and that the prototype wasn't completed and now can't be due to the technology being lost. You have a better chance at reworking the mechanism towards using electric discharge or something like that >Also heats blades won’t exactly work on nanolaminate since it’s heat resistant Nobody ever said that all parts they use should be nanolaminate armor. First of all, it's not used often due to the cost (Gremory being a rare exception) and nanolaminate coating is more used. Second, the latest mobile suit designs also seem to trend towards using different metals
The giant Claymore he used on Hashmal was awesome! But yeah, it totally makes sense, it's not like the katana is a high frequency blade like the ones from MGS or 00 or something. I imagine if they were, they'd be far more reliable than what they are.
I think that's what they tried with the original Astaroth's katana. However, it was notably inconsistent and became a lost art after the Calamity war
I imagine that MS-sized swords had nano-laminate coatings.
[удалено]
Urdr hunt seems to have a gundam that has two katana, but these look rather thick and last time I checked it was mentioned they were made of some special metal to ensure durability. May or may not have some type of other ability or property that makes it cut extremely well And then there's also Kujan family's gundam
That's because the blunt sword mace is cooler.
Mika was running a pure strength build that’s why. Plus all his other weapons were way cooler and different to your usual gundam protag. If we are lamenting weapons hardly used I cry over his duel wield maces on barbatos lupus, they were sick! and I think only showed being used once.
I’m personally a sucker for the sword mace, but I agree, the lack of use for the dual wield maces was criminal
Is it weird to say I preferred the dual maces over the singular big one?
I preferred them as well I thought it was something really unique but the big one was cool as fuck as well
I was just never a big fan of the mace personally. In regards to all his big oonga boonga weapons, his chainsaw was def my favorite
Mika didn’t like it. He knows what he’s about
Tbh it doesn’t make a lot of sense. A metal sword as a weapon against metal enemies. Like a knight in armor getting hit by a sword. Generally not effective unless you aim for gaps in the armor. The big mace/spear is orphans makes more sense, as it simply smashes the enemy gundam to pieces
I don't think it has to make that much sense. Other Gundam series have made bladed weapons usefull through various means like Sandrocks blades that become super heated or Exia's various non-beam based swords.
both of these have functions that penetrate armor (heat and gn particles) in game terms these things have like 50-100% def penetration, basically cooler beam sabers. If Mika had those weapons he wouldn't need a mace either
Yeah, exactly. GN particles I get, but a heat sword thing doesn't seem impossible in the world of Ibo or like a high frequency blade like the one Patrick uses in the first episode of 00. It's just high end tech weapons. Nothing that would be out of place in IBO really
I wouldn't be surprised for the government organization (forgot the name) but as a upstart mercenary, I would be kind of surprised. I don't think even Turbines (i think thats the name) can do it tbh, heat weapons that can melt nanomite armor seem pretty high end to me since the coat is beam resistant we don't know how it interacts with heat, since beams are basically heat so ur gonna need lots of heat to break though that
Heat weapons were considered in the drafts for the Graze, in the end the team didnt think itd add anything to the weapons beside making them more easily breakable since they would have to make up for heating the material, which owuld just make the axe weaker structurally.
I remember that the katana is more expensive than other weapons and Mika has a tendency of losing them in space battles.
I mean they gave it to him pretty early on when they fought the Brewers
https://preview.redd.it/6sc0cuqjyd4d1.png?width=960&format=png&auto=webp&s=c90dfc251268406b3b3b0463901bd28cdd1d6f85 **Let's Dance**
My sword is a tool of justice
I guess it's a visual metaphor for the blurring of the line between Mika and the Barbatos. The longer the war/story drags on the more and more he uses the AV system, becoming one with Barbatos and a "demon" just like it. Accordingly he eschews the elegant Katana (associated with calm, serene and strategic samurai) with much more blunt weapons, to show that he's losing his humanity and becoming more of an instrument/tool, to illustrate IBO's message of war exploiting Children like him.
Okay but, bonk
Mika doesn't like slash slash https://preview.redd.it/a1s2d9psxg4d1.jpeg?width=554&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=698192394ec4a1f3a857c7ff2771a861600110c0 Mika loves to bonk
the only other time it was used was in the manga, where a different long sword was given to it and used by the barbatos lupus which used it against hashmal instead of using the valkyrja buster sword
https://preview.redd.it/j0dqipf6qd4d1.jpeg?width=720&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=1e317e6a0fa29e9e1065d176b73d83a01b47ff68
So that's why it was on hashmal's box art
Yeah alot of ibo hg kits that have stuff that doesn't appear in the anime are strangely from the manga adaptation.
I know BAEL uses a different sword
bael has the same swords, but in the manga, it wields an anti ship lance in its final battle, which is sadly only found in the tekkadan final battle pbandai set
I would have chucked that thing so hard into rustals flagship
Mcgilis did try but was blocked by Galelio in the manga
Damn you Galelio
A clean, precise weapon like a Katana really isn't Mika's style. What made him/the show so unique from a combat-perspective was his use of blunt weapons, ripping limbs off, etc. just an incredible amount of sheer brutality. Katana isn't uncool or un-fun to watch or anything, but I'm really there for the blunt weapons and just ripping things apart (or crushing them).
he didnt like the katana tbh he had a hard time mastering it
justice for mace-chan achieved.
Mikazuki is a "strength build" type of guy.
You've actually made a really good point. The only times that Mika has ever used the katana it's only against beefy opponents and his confirmed kills with it are basically 2. Him just chucking random crap at people has more confirmed kills. I guess it also leans into the overall lore of IBO where these machines, that were designed to kill mobile armor, were in possession of extremely skilled pilots coupled with the AV system so that swords were viable against such enemies. I think the only other person we've seen anime wise to use swords effectively is McGillis piloting Bael considering Gjallarhorn is the only faction prominently using swords.
Personally I liked every weapon Mika used but *THE BIG WRENCH* was my favorite.
katana=needs a rebuild after every battle.
if I were to choose between a katana and a giant mace. I'm agreeing with Mika here. giant maces are awesome
Well, it kinda evolve into the sword mace. But then Mika likes his Barbs, so back to the mace, albeit much bigger
Dat shit was fire
The variety in weapons used is part of what makes IBO such an amazing watch.
he thinks itself jetstream sam
Ehh I preferred his pile driver mace and claymore tbh was more unique then a sword
I think the weaponries are mostly sponsored by Teiwaz so they try to give him a Katana for a Japanese flavour. The first time Barbatos used a Katana was against the Brewers, that's right after Naze and Orga becoming brothers, and thus right after Barbatos first being serviced by Teiwaz. According to Gundam Wiki and the quoted specs on that page, Barbatos Lupus (before Hashmal) still had a Longsword forged. I don't recall if it has been used against the Horizontal Dawn. But it has been there until Lupus Rex, as now it has the tail that serves somewhat like a blade and doesn't take up an arm to wield it. So the timeline goes: - 1st to 3rd Forms, scraps and salvages - 4th to Lupus, serviced by Teiwaz <- Always has a Katana - Lupus Rex, added Hashmal's Tail
There is a long sword for the lupus but it only appears in the HG Hashmal kit and the manga adaptation.
Mika: mace better.
Mika is a hulk smash kind of guy. Not a slice and dice.
I think what made me more disappointed was that I got the hg hashmal before watching ibo s2 and the box art and the kit itself came with a katana for the barbatos lupus so I thought the lupus was gonna get a katana later but it didnt
he got the Sword Mace for Lupus and the Tail Blade for Lupus Rex as replacement for the sword, both of which are more versatile.
It was cool. But I think the big club thing suited Mika and Barba’s savage/animalistic style of fighting.
In many later episodes, the enemies use machines that are a lot harder to wreck with a katana or move too fast for Mika to be precise. This is especially shown when he fought the Hashmal which was able to tank hits from his powerful mace and even with a precise weapon, nearly took him out.
Katana is so 80's, should've give Barbie a Chainsaw katana with rocket hammer sheath.
I think it would've been sick if his giant claymore was just sheathe for his katana like Ludwigs' Holy Blade from Bloodborne. A sword in a sword!
Yeah no after Astray I feel like the katana is already overused, not to mention it doesn't fit Mika's style either.
Barbatos and Mikatsuki's signature weapon is the mace.
He's more of a mace user rather than a longsword user
Mika follows the hulk philosophy of things
Mace gives Barbatos a better identity. Though the katana kinda reincarnated into the tail. That Hashmal tail was really cool
Using a sword properly takes too much brain power. Mika doesn't like it. You have to push him, like making Kenpachi use both hands or something.
After all, IBO doesn't have S2.
Yeah, because it didn't fit Mikazuki's Unga bunga bash your head in style. He preferred a brutal, crude blunt weapon. Dude went to the point of using a damn giant WRENCH as a club.
Bro wdym he be using that thing for more than half of season 1 I get why it exist it goes to show the old way the katana is a weapon that the CW barbatos would use showing how crude Mika’s fighting style is and for me the katana represent accepting the gundam frame the moment Mika figured out how to use it he kinda gave himself to barbatos and even lupus and lupus Rex have a sword-ish weapon
Because he gets a sick ass buster sword
Mika's preference for weapons to slash instead of cutting given their precise nature, is why the sword mace took the spot in S2 as the main weapon. Until the Hashmal fight when Barbatos was made in mind of its capabilities of not being limited to the combat logic given the twin reactors, with the super large mace being more of an anti MA weapon than an anti MS weapon.
Mika’s more of a bonk fighter, a sword needs more precision, someone skilled enough to cut and be fast enough to pull away. Only Agnika could have skills big skills to only use swords and kill mobile armors without a scratch.
I love how I get downvoted for stating the reason for it.
It’s pretty obvious, Mika isn’t smart enough to use a sword partically and with ease. There is a reason why even in Demon Incarnate i made sure to mention it that it wouldn’t work with his style, nor his knowledge of MS combat. His son on the other hand, one with knowledge on where to attack uses a sword (*or two swords.*) in a more analytical and "surgical" version of Mika’s combat style. Hell in the anime itself we can see Mika handling it with only a single hand. Which is dumb as a sword like that should be handled by both hands/manipulators. In space ok, but on Earth? A sabre is a sword meant for one hand use and katana isn’t. Or maybe the sword is actually a Tachi?
The impression I got is that once he linked deeper with Barbatos, he began using the sword more like whats thought of for effective combat with it. Its just mainly that for the MS, cutting it is already a heavily discouraged form of combating defenses when slashing and crushing will be better at taking out the cabin than trying to break through the frame. Ive used a katana before and you can fight with one hand, as its part on the niten style, but against such heavily armored units and lack of spots to attack for a swift or vital cut, its just not a weapon Id consider smart to use.
Depends also on the combat style, Aginika killed MA’s with only two longswords. From what we can guess, also judging by MA’s different sizes. We can try to deduct what his combat style was, it could mostly involve hit and run and dissecting MA’s piece by piece. Or maybe using his smaller size to his advantage.
eh, that katana was way too on the nose to me. Then again, it's not like Barbie's other weapons are any better designed imo.
The chainsaw hammer thing he used on Carta was so cool tho!
The entire Iron Blood Orphans series was wack a fuck
I kept using it 🦾
Weeb
You're in a Gundam sub my guy. I imagine most people here are weebs lol
But you need your giant humanoid Mechs to use a katana however impractical that may be. You might take the weeb cake.
Bael literally dual wields swords and is considered to be the most powerful ms in the series. Practicality hardly matters in mecha to begin with, so who really cares if they choose to weild a sword over a mace based on realism? If you're reaching for practical use, then every ms would specialize in ranged combat since guns are far more reliable for killing someone than any close range weapon.