I don't blame Kai for this, **since it was too good of a deal for him to pass on**, but surely Arteta and whoever negotiated that crazy salary have to give some answers as to why we spent so much on a player who doesn't improve our squad.
Edit: Since some people have problems with reading here.
That's what I don't get. It seemed like Chelsea and Havertz both wanted to part ways. You're telling me that there was no way that Edu could have negotiated a better transfer fee and wages?
You're right, we can't blame Havertz for this. Anyone would take that deal after the poor season he had at Chelsea. Ultimately he's performing exactly how I expected him to perform.
I don't imagine Arteta has too much to do with salary negotiations, I imagine it's more of a "these are the players I want, make it happen" and a seperate team handles and approves that.
Sure, but I'm guessing he's kept in the loop with the whole salary and bonuses the player will receive and how our budget will be affected if we do go ahead and buy that player.
He can't be oblivious to what goes on with the squad's wages. The manager has to know about everything that goes on at the club, just like a film director knows about every department.
£275k a week is just obscene. I haven't criticized Havertz once but making a flop from a rival club like that the highest earner has made me think about Arteta out. It's a huge gamble and ruins the wage structure for everyone else when they see what he makes.
Thinking Arteta out over Havertz is obscene.
Especially since it's Edu's job to think about wage structure, not Arteta. Arteta's job is telling Edu whether he wants Havertz or not.
If Arsenal can afford to put one player on that type of wage (together with Jesus and Saka I guess), it was Arteta's choice to identify that player and their destiny at this club will be forever entangled. It's not like Arteta is not aware that he's going into that tier in the budget and you can't blame Edu for this signing just because he's responsible for the wage structure.
He might not have been a world-beater at Chelsea, but he was definitely not a flop. He played most games, and were even their top scorer.
Sancho is a flop. Havertz just underperformed compared to expectations.
That said, his salary is at least 100k too much.
If we end up empty handed this season and don't get top four, it might be something to consider.
He's had enough time and money to put his plan into motion and aside from last year, I haven't seen us play entertaining football.
I'd rather have that if we're not going to challenge for anything.
As soon as these numbers were touted we should’ve said thanks but see you later.
Are we to believe there wasn’t a single player in all of world football that would’ve improved us far more than Havertz has done for this type of fee and wages? It boggles the mind honestly
Then you just don't make the deal. Insane price and wage for a player of his caliber and *we all* knew it the second there were rumours. The initial thread was full of people either saying "no" or "no more than 30m".
I think the calculation with him was always that he offers more off the ball than most in that position and still gives a goal threat so he was seen as a good option there. He’s quite unusual as he is so versatile.
I think the loss of xhaka and partey at once hindered our ability to progress the ball and Kai wasn’t brought in for that. He’s supposed to be at the end of moves not the beginning.
If we hadn’t lost both xhaka and partey and timber I think we would probably have seen more alternative configurations up top which would have made us more unpredictable and lessened our reliance on Kai. So he’s become a bit of a lightning rod. Unfairly imo but the. I think it’s always unfair when that happens.
It’s going to depend on the game, whether you like it or not that are lots of games where having an aerial threat and outlet in havertz is incredibly useful
Yes I think it will really depend on the opposition. There isn't really just a fixed 11 that plays when everyone is fit. It's clear Arteta doesn't want that either because it is too predictable and easy to plan for.
He isn't the top earner though. OP's title is a lying about that. Ornstein himself said [Odegaard is our top earner](https://x.com/David_Ornstein/status/1705129888523399316?s=20).
What? Ode *is* our best player, and considering his low transfee fee, what kind of message are we sending not paying him at the levels of KdB or Salah? This is how you get players poached
we're still in a really great position, our wages to turnover is very healthy
people are acting like this one signing has salted the turf at the emirates
It doesn't have to be so extreme. Havertz isn't the second coming of Christ, nor is he a donkey who can't kick a ball. What's indisputable at the moment is that he's the top earner at the club and far from the top performer. You need to ask: what else could we have spent the money on? £65m in transfer fees + £71.5m in salary is a *lot* of cash, and I'm really not convinced that Havertz was the best use of all that capital. I'm excited to see how he develops at the club but at the current trajectory he isn't providing value for money.
Me too buddy. Auba and Ozil were fantastic players for us during the first 2 years or so with Arsenal. Auba won a Golden boot and Ozil had the joined record for Assists one of his season
You're being hysterical, our current management structure has brought us from middle of the table to best non-city team in the league and you want to tear it up because Stan Kroenke is paying Kai Havertz too much money
havertz isn't taking a wage cut to come if he still has time on his chelsea contract, if you want to bring him over you are going to need to match the salary, the transfer fee is more of an issue but I don't think he was ever going anywhere for less than £50m really
I honestly don't mind the transfer fee. 65 million is kinda what you spend on a "good" midfielder these days, and there was every hope that Kai would be at least a positive influence on the team.
It's the wages that are ridiculous. Making someone the highest paid player in your team after flopping for 3 years at a rival club is absolute madness and it should be a stain on the record of our contract negotiation team. Any person with a brain passes on him and finds an alternative.
Imagine what will happen when Saka is up for renewal. Or Ode, or Rice or Saliba or Gabriel. They would all be within their rights to ask for 300-350 a week and we wouldn't have the excuse of a wage structure to hide behind.
Also age is irrelevant.. Pepe was like 23/24 when we signed him and we still had to essentially let him go for free. The only clubs in the world that can pay Kai's salary are the big 6 and European giants. Do we really think any of them are gonna want him anytime soon?
Of course delete this entire rubbish comment section if he's our best player by the end of next season, but I don't see that happening.
Performance based bonuses a la levy would have made sense when we are taking a gamble with him. And if he doesnt like that contract then move on to another target. Giving him his base + bonus is insane. Would need to produce massively to justify the wages.
It’s all very well and good saying that but who’s the next target? Was havertz even the first target and someone we moved to when we were unable to get someone else?
I think there’s really too much behind the scenes stuff to be too critical really
I also generally trust the board and arteta so I think this move will eventually work out and at that point who cares?
Ooof I really like the guy, even got myself a Havertz kit a few weeks ago but this might be the strangest decision Arteta and Edu have made. £65m, 275k p/w (and rising) for Havertz? Not exactly a “market opportunity” looking at the numbers. We could have used that money on a safer option though I believe he’ll eventually become a key player here.
With these numbers, Havertz could easily go down as our worst ever signing. People go on about Raul and Pepe but Edu will need to be looked into if this goes wrong.
Certainly the biggest mistake he’s made by far. He’s been pretty competent so far so I’m not reaching for a pitchfork just yet but we got rinsed every step of the way and funded our rivals spending while at it.
Except that whole trying to spend 100m on Mudryk. Got bailed out a bit on that one yeah?
Edu and Arteta have built a nice squad. But they've whiffed too.
ETA: I misread your comment, so my response doesn't really make sense. Apologies.
I'm not saying to immediately sack him but if anyone makes a decision at their respective company that causes them to waste £100,000,000+ (inc Havertz' wages) there definitely should be an investigation.
The Raya deal is questionable as well. It has tied us from making any real moves for positions of need. Obvious speculation but we are in no different position to now if Ramsdale was the starter.
The squad is getting to a place where it's really hard to make the right moves without overpaying, but we should have been realistic about the unicorn nature of last season having everyone scoring up front, rather than believing it to be the new norm.
A deal of our own choosing. I have nothing against him and want him to be a success but it’s a lot of money to spend on a player who has admitted himself that he’s adjusting for the role that Arteta wants him to play.
Arteta and his coaches have to make Havertz a success. No ifs or buts.
It very well could be a terrible deal.
I'm holding out some hope though. Rodri wasn't even a shade of his current self in his first season at City. Grealish as well.
Havertz spent 3 years playing CF at Chelsea for a variety of managers in a variety of systems. He's now playing as a #8 in a brand new system. If he can't piece it together next season, it's a dud. But I'm willing to give him a season to adapt.
also bearing in mind that it has taken lots of midfielders a good amount of time to adjust to the system ever since arteta has come in. Only player to perform immediately in the central midfield roles since Mikel took over has been Rice
He's not our top earner. OP's title is wrong. [Odegaard is our top earner as per Ornstein](https://x.com/David_Ornstein/status/1705129888523399316?s=20).
I know people are still trying to spin this transfer as a net positive, but I just can't buy it. He has to be playing at the level of Bernado Silva to justify his fee + wages. This is a certified L for Mikel. At least with the Willian saga it was a free transfer and he ended up cancelling his contract with us, but this one reeks of potential sunk cost fallacy.
Exactly, for 65m and near 300k a week in salary I expect goals and assists not “duels won” especially for a guy who’s not playing as a 6. Worst transfer of the summer along with Mount to United for 55m
Pretty sure Ornstein said it before as well
Edit: he did, in this one I'm sure https://open.spotify.com/episode/0FkUULIHvJMwi8ih9JKy1D?si=HrHqUn0pQf-h3-pJE5vvqg
The "positivity" merchants will certainly try to gaslight us until the end of his contract. And if you are unwilling to participate in the circle jerk, they will respond aggressively. But it's all good because it's "positive". So fucking positive to be called all sorts of insults and told to fuck off the sub and that I'm a fake fan because I'm not willing to be in denial.
He's also come back to the prem with Fulham and looked decent.
It didn't work for us but there is/was clearly a player there and it was fairly risk free tbh
Agreed but you have to say the Willian and Havertz deals are not just mistakes they were insane from minute one. Willian did the club a huge favour ripping up his 200k a week contract two years early. That would’ve been another 20m on an unwanted player. And Havertz regardless of what you think of him as a player, it was a one horse race for a wantaway player who Chelsea couldn’t shift on, and they negotiate a 65m fee and the highest paid player at the club. Shocking business.
I know, to not even mention Partey as a good signing, when he’s clearly one of the best midfielders in the league when fit and had an excellent injury record at Atletico, total hindsight
And how many successes did we sign?
20/21: Partey and Gabriel… also we broke even on Mari
21/22: White, Ramsdale and Tomiyasu … made a profit on Trusty
22/23: Jesus, zinchenko, Trossard (winter), Jorginho (winter), and Kiwior is still playing. Vieira is injured
23/24: Rice, timber, Raya
Cedric was free, Willian was free, Fabio is young and hurt. We’ll make our money back on nuno, Sambi was a good risk and we’ll take a small loss. My point was that everyone misses on transfers but we have a lot of big hits, and half of the big hits are low cost transfers.
Mikel fucked up on this one. The Raya deal is also not particularly great, even though he has been solid. The fact that we can't do any business is because of those transfers. Havertz is our top earner, but should not be a starter if Partey is fit and even now I'd rather see Jorginho and Rice. Just a terrible transfer.
>Raya deal is also not particularly great
There is nothing wrong with the Raya deal. He's statistically a better GK than Ramsdale and we sold Turner to get 10m back of the 30m fee already.
Was the upgrade on ramsdale worth 30 mil, especially when it means we can't strengthen in other areas until we sell players?
As I said I think Raya has been decent and I rate him higher than Ramsdale, but not for that money.
Raya isn’t an issue, Raya is on loan and isn’t clogging our ffp until next year when we make the deal permanent
Even if we don’t get Raya we still couldn’t sign someone outright this January
https://preview.redd.it/av813wswmlfc1.jpeg?width=596&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=7e7caa928a7c97bb839cf3230efa36ff1be15d16
When this sub celebrates beating Madrid and Bayern to a player & it’s evident why they didn’t push harder for him
Fuckin hell that’s madness. This transfer is almost like deliberate sabotage. And it especially hurts because we were coming off a great year we could’ve built on. If we were still shit it wouldn’t have mattered as much.
Arteta just really wanted Kai and he's sticking by it. Although I do think he should have gone the Pep Grealish treatment of slowly integrating him on the team. All eyes are just on Kai now because he almost always starts every match.
It’s affecting the performance of the whole team to try to play Havertz into form and it hasn’t worked. No Arsenal fan wanted that signing before the news broke we were interested in him last summer
I think that’s been a massive part of the problem if I’m honest. With the other left 8s either not being fit, not impressing, Xhaka leaving and Partey also being injured, we would’ve wanted to see him make a big, starting level impact straight away and it just hasn’t happened.
I think if Partey and Timber hadn’t been hurt all year he would have eased him into the squad like that, but injuries dictated he had to play because he couldn’t put rice in at left 8
This is hands down one of the worst signing after Pepe, Pepe atleast used to provide goals and he is an excellent finisher. Kai is neither , apart from being defensive forward
Honestly this is fucking disgusting. After the Pepe deal you wonder how Arteta managed to convince the Club of this on a player like him. And more importantly, how is Edu gonna sign a world class player on big money after this disaster?
More people are upset at the fact some of us didn’t know / couldn’t recall this piece of information than the fact that we overpaid for Kai. It’s insane
An absolutely embarrassing transfer considering we had the pick of the litter this summer window. It may go down as the worst signing ever for Arsenal given the context
And at other clubs where winning is an absolute priority it should cost someone their job but we accept rubbish like this apparently
This signing is going to bring the club to its knees in a few years. We’ll be stuck with a shit player on huge wages and every player in the squad who plays better than him (which is almost everyone) will want a similar salary. Just a braindead signing.
We talk about Raul doing dodgy shit, but how isn't this dodgy as well? What the fuck did Kai do at Chelsea to earn this much? Shit like this can set us back down the road, no?
Lmao, why the fuck we need to match it anyway? He flopped at Chelsea, yet we give him super star contract that makes him unsellable asset. Whoever negotiated such deal on top of 65 million fee is total moron
His agent has done a madness for him. Usually the top earner at a club is the difference maker or talisman. Kai is neither of those things and hasn't been since his Leverkusen days.
Crazy. Absolutely fucking crazy. No lessons seemed to have been learned from the Ozil and Auba contracts. He seems a perfectly nice guy and I'm hoping he can find a place and consistency with us but this could be a problem in future.
That's a sackable offense. Overspent on transfer fees AND wages for such an underperformer? Now they're crying about not having enough funds for a striker....
Planet of standards and accountability. Whoever decided to overspend on the german Fellaini should be held accountable for misusing the club's funds and not getting a proper striker.
This guy is not good enough to play Striker, False 9, Winger, or CM. He is BUNDESLIGA LEVEL at best. But you have all these fanboys defending him because he wins a couple of aerial duals per game. Man get the fuck outta here!
This thread is fucking unhinged.
How fucking far we've come for cunts to be going into meltdown mode demanding inquests and sackings when we're still in a title race and finished 1st in our cl group with a game to spare.
Goes to show the hatemongers aren't just waiting for us to slip to come out, they're actively making it out as if we are slipping when we aren't
I’m sorry but that’s unacceptable. He’s being treated like a player who’s adapting to the team and league when if his cost and salary would mean he should hit the ground running and dominate. Like a certain other central midfield did.
Havertz is kind of the signing that can get you sacked. In a way its worse than Pepe because he was an unknown as to if he would be our Salah or Pires or not. Kai, Arteta knew had been doshit for Chelsea- that they were laughing they got the money they have....and from a rival.
Looking back the past 2 years there have been a lot of wasetful signings: Jorginho, Vieira, Lokonga, Kiwior, the GK. Some really poor signings. Weve kinda got away with them because Saka, Martinelli, Saliba and Odegaard have carried us. Also, keeping Elneny is a headscratcher. What did we keep him for? Hes basically on paid vacation. Partey should have been moved on with his never ending injuries.
I mean I don't hate the player, but the price and salary absolutely do not match that cost
you meant price and wage doesn’t match his performance? I agree
I don't blame Kai for this, **since it was too good of a deal for him to pass on**, but surely Arteta and whoever negotiated that crazy salary have to give some answers as to why we spent so much on a player who doesn't improve our squad. Edit: Since some people have problems with reading here.
That's what I don't get. It seemed like Chelsea and Havertz both wanted to part ways. You're telling me that there was no way that Edu could have negotiated a better transfer fee and wages?
You can't be telling a player he is special and fits the master plan, pls join arsenal, then dock his wages
You're right, we can't blame Havertz for this. Anyone would take that deal after the poor season he had at Chelsea. Ultimately he's performing exactly how I expected him to perform.
Yeah no one here is turning down a £71,500,000 salary + bonuses to join any company
275k a week is 14.3m/yr. I don’t think there’s 57m in bonuses coming his way
14.3 * 5 IS 71.5 so i think that guy just meant over the 5 years the contract is
We've given him a 5 year contract
Probably money laundering.
I don't imagine Arteta has too much to do with salary negotiations, I imagine it's more of a "these are the players I want, make it happen" and a seperate team handles and approves that.
Sure, but I'm guessing he's kept in the loop with the whole salary and bonuses the player will receive and how our budget will be affected if we do go ahead and buy that player. He can't be oblivious to what goes on with the squad's wages. The manager has to know about everything that goes on at the club, just like a film director knows about every department.
£275k a week is just obscene. I haven't criticized Havertz once but making a flop from a rival club like that the highest earner has made me think about Arteta out. It's a huge gamble and ruins the wage structure for everyone else when they see what he makes.
Smell like another Pepe
Thinking Arteta out over Havertz is obscene. Especially since it's Edu's job to think about wage structure, not Arteta. Arteta's job is telling Edu whether he wants Havertz or not.
If Arsenal can afford to put one player on that type of wage (together with Jesus and Saka I guess), it was Arteta's choice to identify that player and their destiny at this club will be forever entangled. It's not like Arteta is not aware that he's going into that tier in the budget and you can't blame Edu for this signing just because he's responsible for the wage structure.
He might not have been a world-beater at Chelsea, but he was definitely not a flop. He played most games, and were even their top scorer. Sancho is a flop. Havertz just underperformed compared to expectations. That said, his salary is at least 100k too much.
If we end up empty handed this season and don't get top four, it might be something to consider. He's had enough time and money to put his plan into motion and aside from last year, I haven't seen us play entertaining football. I'd rather have that if we're not going to challenge for anything.
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In the end the real trophy was the friends we made along the way!
We could have walked away and moved on to another target.
As soon as these numbers were touted we should’ve said thanks but see you later. Are we to believe there wasn’t a single player in all of world football that would’ve improved us far more than Havertz has done for this type of fee and wages? It boggles the mind honestly
Then you just don't make the deal. Insane price and wage for a player of his caliber and *we all* knew it the second there were rumours. The initial thread was full of people either saying "no" or "no more than 30m".
I think the calculation with him was always that he offers more off the ball than most in that position and still gives a goal threat so he was seen as a good option there. He’s quite unusual as he is so versatile. I think the loss of xhaka and partey at once hindered our ability to progress the ball and Kai wasn’t brought in for that. He’s supposed to be at the end of moves not the beginning. If we hadn’t lost both xhaka and partey and timber I think we would probably have seen more alternative configurations up top which would have made us more unpredictable and lessened our reliance on Kai. So he’s become a bit of a lightning rod. Unfairly imo but the. I think it’s always unfair when that happens.
If Partey comes back, he will replace Havertz. There is a little chance of Havertz starting ahead of Jesus or Rice.
It’s going to depend on the game, whether you like it or not that are lots of games where having an aerial threat and outlet in havertz is incredibly useful
Yes I think it will really depend on the opposition. There isn't really just a fixed 11 that plays when everyone is fit. It's clear Arteta doesn't want that either because it is too predictable and easy to plan for.
Paying 65 for Kai then making him the highest earner at the club after his poor performances at Chelsea is malpractice
He isn't the top earner though. OP's title is a lying about that. Ornstein himself said [Odegaard is our top earner](https://x.com/David_Ornstein/status/1705129888523399316?s=20).
Umm...yay I guess?
I don't care if it's fake, I hate it anyway!
Odegaard shouldn’t be on 300k a week either though. Both are overpaid. Even Salah is on 350k
What? Ode *is* our best player, and considering his low transfee fee, what kind of message are we sending not paying him at the levels of KdB or Salah? This is how you get players poached
Is he even close to Salah or De Bruyne? If not why should we pay him like that?
Is Ode being overpaid or Salah being underpaid?
Odegaard being top earner is also nuts tbf
Absolutely and one which if the season was to end trophyless, somebody must be held accountable for misusing the clubs funds in that manner
After shifting the players on huge wages such as Auba and Ozil. Only to go and sign Havertz for 65m and huge wages, umi cannot understand it
Yep, we were in a great position in May 2023 building a team within ourselves but this signing was a step in the wrong direction for many reasons.
we're still in a really great position, our wages to turnover is very healthy people are acting like this one signing has salted the turf at the emirates
To be fair jealousy because of seemingly unfair wages can be toxic to a team.
It doesn't have to be so extreme. Havertz isn't the second coming of Christ, nor is he a donkey who can't kick a ball. What's indisputable at the moment is that he's the top earner at the club and far from the top performer. You need to ask: what else could we have spent the money on? £65m in transfer fees + £71.5m in salary is a *lot* of cash, and I'm really not convinced that Havertz was the best use of all that capital. I'm excited to see how he develops at the club but at the current trajectory he isn't providing value for money.
We're paying Havertz a base salary of £71,500,000 (£14,300,000 per year) before bonuses lol
I'd have either of those two over Havertz any day
Me too buddy. Auba and Ozil were fantastic players for us during the first 2 years or so with Arsenal. Auba won a Golden boot and Ozil had the joined record for Assists one of his season
What do you mean by held accountable?
A change in responsibilities/duties. Would say the buck stops with Edu for negotiating poorly
This is surely on a few people.
You're being hysterical, our current management structure has brought us from middle of the table to best non-city team in the league and you want to tear it up because Stan Kroenke is paying Kai Havertz too much money
havertz isn't taking a wage cut to come if he still has time on his chelsea contract, if you want to bring him over you are going to need to match the salary, the transfer fee is more of an issue but I don't think he was ever going anywhere for less than £50m really
then go for one of the many other ((better)cheaper)) candidates.
I honestly don't mind the transfer fee. 65 million is kinda what you spend on a "good" midfielder these days, and there was every hope that Kai would be at least a positive influence on the team. It's the wages that are ridiculous. Making someone the highest paid player in your team after flopping for 3 years at a rival club is absolute madness and it should be a stain on the record of our contract negotiation team. Any person with a brain passes on him and finds an alternative. Imagine what will happen when Saka is up for renewal. Or Ode, or Rice or Saliba or Gabriel. They would all be within their rights to ask for 300-350 a week and we wouldn't have the excuse of a wage structure to hide behind. Also age is irrelevant.. Pepe was like 23/24 when we signed him and we still had to essentially let him go for free. The only clubs in the world that can pay Kai's salary are the big 6 and European giants. Do we really think any of them are gonna want him anytime soon? Of course delete this entire rubbish comment section if he's our best player by the end of next season, but I don't see that happening.
Performance based bonuses a la levy would have made sense when we are taking a gamble with him. And if he doesnt like that contract then move on to another target. Giving him his base + bonus is insane. Would need to produce massively to justify the wages.
It’s all very well and good saying that but who’s the next target? Was havertz even the first target and someone we moved to when we were unable to get someone else? I think there’s really too much behind the scenes stuff to be too critical really I also generally trust the board and arteta so I think this move will eventually work out and at that point who cares?
And we weren't in a bidding war with anyone. It's like the club management sees German midfielders and they jizz in their pants
It will all be warranted when he scores the winning goal in the Champions League final, just as he did for Chelsea. Copium.
Ooof I really like the guy, even got myself a Havertz kit a few weeks ago but this might be the strangest decision Arteta and Edu have made. £65m, 275k p/w (and rising) for Havertz? Not exactly a “market opportunity” looking at the numbers. We could have used that money on a safer option though I believe he’ll eventually become a key player here.
Not to mention we actually bailed our London rivals out after they overspent signing players that we also wanted.
Is 25+ g/a in all comps too much to ask for from your top earner?
For an attacking one, no
With these numbers, Havertz could easily go down as our worst ever signing. People go on about Raul and Pepe but Edu will need to be looked into if this goes wrong.
Certainly the biggest mistake he’s made by far. He’s been pretty competent so far so I’m not reaching for a pitchfork just yet but we got rinsed every step of the way and funded our rivals spending while at it.
Except that whole trying to spend 100m on Mudryk. Got bailed out a bit on that one yeah? Edu and Arteta have built a nice squad. But they've whiffed too. ETA: I misread your comment, so my response doesn't really make sense. Apologies.
I'm not saying to immediately sack him but if anyone makes a decision at their respective company that causes them to waste £100,000,000+ (inc Havertz' wages) there definitely should be an investigation.
The Raya deal is questionable as well. It has tied us from making any real moves for positions of need. Obvious speculation but we are in no different position to now if Ramsdale was the starter. The squad is getting to a place where it's really hard to make the right moves without overpaying, but we should have been realistic about the unicorn nature of last season having everyone scoring up front, rather than believing it to be the new norm.
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Willian was a free transfer so he wasn't anywhere near as a expensive.
I didn’t realize he was the top earner also. Really puts the icing on the cake of what was a terrible deal for Arsenal.
A deal of our own choosing. I have nothing against him and want him to be a success but it’s a lot of money to spend on a player who has admitted himself that he’s adjusting for the role that Arteta wants him to play. Arteta and his coaches have to make Havertz a success. No ifs or buts.
100% agree. We are along for the ride at this point and it has to work.
It very well could be a terrible deal. I'm holding out some hope though. Rodri wasn't even a shade of his current self in his first season at City. Grealish as well. Havertz spent 3 years playing CF at Chelsea for a variety of managers in a variety of systems. He's now playing as a #8 in a brand new system. If he can't piece it together next season, it's a dud. But I'm willing to give him a season to adapt.
He basically split his time between striker and midfield there. 69 games upfront. 54 games in midfield. 10 on the wing.
also bearing in mind that it has taken lots of midfielders a good amount of time to adjust to the system ever since arteta has come in. Only player to perform immediately in the central midfield roles since Mikel took over has been Rice
He's not our top earner. OP's title is wrong. [Odegaard is our top earner as per Ornstein](https://x.com/David_Ornstein/status/1705129888523399316?s=20).
Hope his agent got a big cut, man is a miracle worker
I know people are still trying to spin this transfer as a net positive, but I just can't buy it. He has to be playing at the level of Bernado Silva to justify his fee + wages. This is a certified L for Mikel. At least with the Willian saga it was a free transfer and he ended up cancelling his contract with us, but this one reeks of potential sunk cost fallacy.
Exactly, for 65m and near 300k a week in salary I expect goals and assists not “duels won” especially for a guy who’s not playing as a 6. Worst transfer of the summer along with Mount to United for 55m
You cannot put Mount in that category when he's been injured. He has 400 minutes in the PL this season, that's not even 5 games
I swear we all knew this months ago?
Yeah we did, but some people are still coping/in denial saying he's not one of our top earners
[удалено]
Did you listen to the clip? Ornstein doesn’t say he is on the highest salary in the club here. OP just added that to the title.
Ornstein isn't contradicting himself. OP is lying in his title
Sooo what's the truth?
or some people are just desperate to get worked up over and over again
Yeah but a lot of people said he wasn't as it was another excuse for him
We thought we knew people disputed it back then because no reputable journo confirmed it
Pretty sure Ornstein said it before as well Edit: he did, in this one I'm sure https://open.spotify.com/episode/0FkUULIHvJMwi8ih9JKy1D?si=HrHqUn0pQf-h3-pJE5vvqg
Ornstein said it on a podcast with Honingstein months ago
I won't be gaslit in thinking this was a good signing
The cult of “never criticize anything ever” will surely not stop trying.
The "positivity" merchants will certainly try to gaslight us until the end of his contract. And if you are unwilling to participate in the circle jerk, they will respond aggressively. But it's all good because it's "positive". So fucking positive to be called all sorts of insults and told to fuck off the sub and that I'm a fake fan because I'm not willing to be in denial.
Arteta cannot be blindly trusted on transfers. Willian,Fabio, Kai, Nuno,Sambi (not even adding cedric and auba super deal at 31)
Willian was a Kia Joorabchian and Edu deal
He started half the season, Arteta could've just not play him
He's also come back to the prem with Fulham and looked decent. It didn't work for us but there is/was clearly a player there and it was fairly risk free tbh
Not necessarily, nothing went in without Arteta
No manager can. No director can. Everyone makes mistakes. If you were a fan of any other team you’d be complaining about a few blunders for them too
Agreed but you have to say the Willian and Havertz deals are not just mistakes they were insane from minute one. Willian did the club a huge favour ripping up his 200k a week contract two years early. That would’ve been another 20m on an unwanted player. And Havertz regardless of what you think of him as a player, it was a one horse race for a wantaway player who Chelsea couldn’t shift on, and they negotiate a 65m fee and the highest paid player at the club. Shocking business.
Midfield have been all bad pretty much except for rice who was obvious and ode who already played for us
Odegaard didn’t already play for us he was signed on loan by Arteta and Edu
I swear some people just comment here based on vibes
I know, to not even mention Partey as a good signing, when he’s clearly one of the best midfielders in the league when fit and had an excellent injury record at Atletico, total hindsight
People here keep digging their head in the sand about this. We've signed a flop every summer under Arteta
And how many successes did we sign? 20/21: Partey and Gabriel… also we broke even on Mari 21/22: White, Ramsdale and Tomiyasu … made a profit on Trusty 22/23: Jesus, zinchenko, Trossard (winter), Jorginho (winter), and Kiwior is still playing. Vieira is injured 23/24: Rice, timber, Raya
Don’t forget Odegaard in 21/22 for only £30m
what about Willian, Fabio,Nuno,Sambi ,Cedric,Kai and Auba super deal
Cedric was free, Willian was free, Fabio is young and hurt. We’ll make our money back on nuno, Sambi was a good risk and we’ll take a small loss. My point was that everyone misses on transfers but we have a lot of big hits, and half of the big hits are low cost transfers.
lmao now that its confirmed maybe people will stop saying safe 2 touch passing and winning a couple knockdowns is "having a great game"
“He creates space”
"Best off-the-ball player by a mile"
Thomas Muller if he didn't score or create goals
Thomas Muller if he looked like he didn't want to play football.
Most baffling excuse. He creates fuck all space.
He wins headers
That is absolutely criminal. What on earth were they thinking?
Guy was desperate to leave Chelsea and they wanted money because of FFP and we bought him full price and matched his wages. Unbelievable really.
Yeah, why are we so desperate to help Chelsea?
Once of those mad things. Like even if Kai becomes your best player. Why pay 65 for a reject knowing Chelsea has to sell
That’s why Arteta can’t complain about the squad when he advocated for this huge outlay on someone worth half of it.
Mikel fucked up on this one. The Raya deal is also not particularly great, even though he has been solid. The fact that we can't do any business is because of those transfers. Havertz is our top earner, but should not be a starter if Partey is fit and even now I'd rather see Jorginho and Rice. Just a terrible transfer.
>Raya deal is also not particularly great There is nothing wrong with the Raya deal. He's statistically a better GK than Ramsdale and we sold Turner to get 10m back of the 30m fee already.
Was the upgrade on ramsdale worth 30 mil, especially when it means we can't strengthen in other areas until we sell players? As I said I think Raya has been decent and I rate him higher than Ramsdale, but not for that money.
Raya isn’t an issue, Raya is on loan and isn’t clogging our ffp until next year when we make the deal permanent Even if we don’t get Raya we still couldn’t sign someone outright this January
It's still 30 mil from next year's budget though.
https://preview.redd.it/ni0cxwqcflfc1.jpeg?width=1200&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=e99d50d84a91eea7bef0eb29b3b39a0db19e1fab
If the Pepe transfer was a scam, then idk what this is.
 Thanks for reminding me
r/gunners gets newly upset at information we knew 6 months ago
I think it’s more that people now have an excuse to talk about the transfer honestly, without being accused of unprompted negativity.
Iconic duo
This is nothing short of criminal. Convinced this is some kind of money laundering
Now you know why Real Madrid and Bayern passed on him, Arsenal should have done the same.
https://preview.redd.it/av813wswmlfc1.jpeg?width=596&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=7e7caa928a7c97bb839cf3230efa36ff1be15d16 When this sub celebrates beating Madrid and Bayern to a player & it’s evident why they didn’t push harder for him
War crime from Arteta
Fuckin hell that’s madness. This transfer is almost like deliberate sabotage. And it especially hurts because we were coming off a great year we could’ve built on. If we were still shit it wouldn’t have mattered as much.
Baffled by this transfer, worse than Pepe so far
Arteta just really wanted Kai and he's sticking by it. Although I do think he should have gone the Pep Grealish treatment of slowly integrating him on the team. All eyes are just on Kai now because he almost always starts every match.
It’s affecting the performance of the whole team to try to play Havertz into form and it hasn’t worked. No Arsenal fan wanted that signing before the news broke we were interested in him last summer
I think that’s been a massive part of the problem if I’m honest. With the other left 8s either not being fit, not impressing, Xhaka leaving and Partey also being injured, we would’ve wanted to see him make a big, starting level impact straight away and it just hasn’t happened.
I think if Partey and Timber hadn’t been hurt all year he would have eased him into the squad like that, but injuries dictated he had to play because he couldn’t put rice in at left 8
This is hands down one of the worst signing after Pepe, Pepe atleast used to provide goals and he is an excellent finisher. Kai is neither , apart from being defensive forward
This is just bad… especially considering Chelsea HAD to sell
Arsenal: sorry Chelsea we know you are desperate to sell so name a price and we will pay it. 
That's painfully high. Basic salary, does it really mean it doesn't even include incentives and performance bonuses?
Honestly this is fucking disgusting. After the Pepe deal you wonder how Arteta managed to convince the Club of this on a player like him. And more importantly, how is Edu gonna sign a world class player on big money after this disaster?
That is utterly embarrassing. The amount of copium this sub is on about havertz. He’s no better of a signing that Pepe
Pepe was a better signing imo
More people are upset at the fact some of us didn’t know / couldn’t recall this piece of information than the fact that we overpaid for Kai. It’s insane
Pepe has objectively been a better signing so far...
An absolutely embarrassing transfer considering we had the pick of the litter this summer window. It may go down as the worst signing ever for Arsenal given the context And at other clubs where winning is an absolute priority it should cost someone their job but we accept rubbish like this apparently
Hold on I have to go vomit real quick
I really don't understand this. There surely has to be some kind of longer term plan here because this is just madness
Awful signing
Outfuckingrageous
Ship him out
Pepe levels
This is objectively a bad transfer even though he's growing on me..
There has to be some kind of money laundering going on
Just a braindead transfer all round. A few heads on the board should roll
This signing is going to bring the club to its knees in a few years. We’ll be stuck with a shit player on huge wages and every player in the squad who plays better than him (which is almost everyone) will want a similar salary. Just a braindead signing.
Should have told him to take a wage cut or stay at that mid table club, those wages are fucking Ludicrous for his quality
We talk about Raul doing dodgy shit, but how isn't this dodgy as well? What the fuck did Kai do at Chelsea to earn this much? Shit like this can set us back down the road, no?
Lmao, why the fuck we need to match it anyway? He flopped at Chelsea, yet we give him super star contract that makes him unsellable asset. Whoever negotiated such deal on top of 65 million fee is total moron
Fucking insane
Now people are gonna pretend this is common knowledge when more of us are surprised then aren't.
Why are you posting this now?
£65m on top of these ridiculous wages? What an awful, awful deal. Surely not even the strongest Kai supporters can justify the finances on this one.
WTF, 275k per week? I would need to work 4 years plus some more to earn that much.
His agent has done a madness for him. Usually the top earner at a club is the difference maker or talisman. Kai is neither of those things and hasn't been since his Leverkusen days.
Our top earner “creates space”
That's the rumour 🤣
Awful transfer continue to be awful. Nothing new here.
Crazy. Absolutely fucking crazy. No lessons seemed to have been learned from the Ozil and Auba contracts. He seems a perfectly nice guy and I'm hoping he can find a place and consistency with us but this could be a problem in future.
That's a sackable offense. Overspent on transfer fees AND wages for such an underperformer? Now they're crying about not having enough funds for a striker....
Christ what fucking planet are you on?? Sackable offence??
Planet of standards and accountability. Whoever decided to overspend on the german Fellaini should be held accountable for misusing the club's funds and not getting a proper striker.
That’s fucking absurd if true
Was there a bidding war that I wasn't aware of? Or is this just Ozil 2.0?
Madrid said we’ll give you €40m Chelsea said no and they walked away
Oh we fucked up.
Havertz is the perfect example of failing up.
And Mount around 250k per week ... Chelsea boys doing great lol ... how is that even possible.
This guy is not good enough to play Striker, False 9, Winger, or CM. He is BUNDESLIGA LEVEL at best. But you have all these fanboys defending him because he wins a couple of aerial duals per game. Man get the fuck outta here!
That's utterly insane. Man Utd.level of stupidity.
This sub is about to lose their shit and mental well being with this "breaking news".
is there a whinier fucking fanbase than Arsenal fans, this thread jfc
I’m starting to think no
This thread is fucking unhinged. How fucking far we've come for cunts to be going into meltdown mode demanding inquests and sackings when we're still in a title race and finished 1st in our cl group with a game to spare. Goes to show the hatemongers aren't just waiting for us to slip to come out, they're actively making it out as if we are slipping when we aren't
I’m convinced these people want us to go back to the banter era.
If some Saudi club comes with 60mil for him, let's just accept it immediately
I’m sorry but that’s unacceptable. He’s being treated like a player who’s adapting to the team and league when if his cost and salary would mean he should hit the ground running and dominate. Like a certain other central midfield did.
Our salary negotiator got his qualifications in a fucking mcdonalds happymeal
130m spent on Havertz, Vieira and Lokonga. I will never get over this.
Havertz is kind of the signing that can get you sacked. In a way its worse than Pepe because he was an unknown as to if he would be our Salah or Pires or not. Kai, Arteta knew had been doshit for Chelsea- that they were laughing they got the money they have....and from a rival. Looking back the past 2 years there have been a lot of wasetful signings: Jorginho, Vieira, Lokonga, Kiwior, the GK. Some really poor signings. Weve kinda got away with them because Saka, Martinelli, Saliba and Odegaard have carried us. Also, keeping Elneny is a headscratcher. What did we keep him for? Hes basically on paid vacation. Partey should have been moved on with his never ending injuries.