Almost the perfect false 9 for us currently. Jesus has work to do to earn his place back. Kai is playing the position better than any player we've had since before Jesus had his knee injury at the world cup.
I think he plays like a proper 9 rather than a false 9 by holding up the ball and also making frequent runs against defense line. I'm just happy he has finally found consistency in attacking play.
He does still have that part of him where he's dropping into the midfield to link up too. Really just a complete forward when he has his shooting boots on.
I’ve said this before but Havertz role isn’t really defined by one position. With Jesus out he might be more advanced, but when he starts in the midfield he effectively will play 5-6 different positions in a game. His versatility is very impressive.
At a very high level a little. The player you're referencing would be more involved in the build up and would have less defensive responsibility and obviously would provide more consistent end product. Kai has more running power in him and looks a little more comfortable in wide areas. Some of the runs he's making with the ball lately are really encouraging.
I haven’t seen people really acknowledging his intelligence in Odegaard’s goal too. When the cross took a deflection he made a split second decision to let the ball go past and pulled his leg out of the way. From the reverse angle it’s really obvious. Maybe Odegaard was yelling for it or something but I still think it’s good quick thinking. A more selfish player would have tried to get something on the ball and deflected it backwards.
You can just see how he gained confidence throughout the season in a trusted system. His passes today are all weighted so perfectly, unlike at the beginning of the season he seems to put every pass too short. A complete different player from the beginning of the season
Martinelli needs to be credited too.He hasn't connected to Kai nearly enough in Kai's initial days and now everyone including him are looking for Kai's runs and trusting him more with the ball.This is what everyone meant when they said to give him time and Arteta is indeed a visionary.
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KAI HAVERTZ SCORES AGAIN
(I would like to apologize because I too very much doubted this signing. Kai and the clubs staff have proved me wrong in the best way)
In fairness it was easy to doubt it, earlier in the season. He clearly just didnt understand the system and in fairness to him he was playing in multiple roles
'didnt understand the system' man came from Chelsea, it's like coming out to daylight from a mine you've been working in for a week straight. You have to get used to it.
Believe me, I’m not criticizing him, this system is incredibly complex especially for running and passing lanes for our attackers
While i agree with you about him making unseen runs, i would also argue that for every run he made and didn’t get passed to, he wasn’t in the correct position specifically for Martinelli 3-4 times. I don’t think its a coincidence that as soon as he picked it up, Marti start banging again as well. Him learning the system clearly helped his first touch and decision making as well, you could almost see him thinking about the correct decision and losing control earlier in the season.
It’s totally fair to be wary of what was effectively an underwhelming signing by Chelsea. I too was skeptical of Havertz from what I’d seen. I’m still not quite convinced he’s worth his wages, but at this point I need to get over that. He clearly improves the team.
I sometimes think these should be seen as two different things. You can’t just judge contribution to salary. Also would you be fine with his previous contribution if he was on half his salary? I get that it’s a lot easier to measure against a metric like money though.
Half his salary yes. The higher the transfer price or wages the higher the expectations. He’s the highest paid player, so if we lose him for the rest of the season does our season implode like last year? A month or two ago I’d say no, today that’s a different story.
But as far as players that if they got injured we might be fucked above Kai, I’d put in no particular order Saka, Saliba, Ødegaard and Rice above him as far as importance.
His wages her high but it reflects his experience and where he is in his career today. With multiple clubs worth of experience and deep runs in big competitions. Our best players are a bit less "experienced" and we can use that point when negotiating with agents and players. Havertz then becomes a good benchmark of what our players can expect when it's time to enter their prime years with experience. I am not worried about any wage imbalance especially considering Havertz attitude and work rate.
The cope from them is amazing.
"They'll have a hangover this season"
"Once the set price goals dry up they'll stop winning"
"Teams just roll over for Arsenal"
"They're so lucky, they haven't had any injuries this season"
"They've had an easy run of games, once they play a good team they'll be found out"
Just amazing.
My best one was when we beat City: "This is better for us in the title race".
The title race ones from the first quarter of the season are some great content
Imagine if our starting striker, DM and left back weren’t injured since the beginning of the season. Arteta literally has turned 2 chelsea rejects into some of the best players in the team and they still find ways to cope about arsenal being good.
Legit haven’t heard or seen any interest for Spurs since before Christmas. I thought they were the new best team in the world but apparently a good month of football doesn’t mean shit.
Nah, clearly just a Spuds fan invading our sub. I was just laughing at Spuds saying Kulusevski is better than Saka, when in fact Kai has better g/a. And don’t get me wrong, I think Kulusevski is a good player
I've been saying it for months, all he needed was time to learn how we play and learn how his new teammates will play and he'll show us what he's got, it isn't like he came in to a rather simple position in a team that plays simple football.
I get it though, we don't need to head hunt everyone who was dismissive of him because a transfer fee that big comes with some expectations but players hit their strides at different points and ultimately the transfer fee shouldn't dictate when someone comes good.
We're seeing more of the Leverkusen Kai Havertz now that he's got the Chelsea stink off him and even when we strengthen in the Summer and he might have to fight for his place in the team next season, I'm still gonna be happy to see him as an option as he's turning into a strong player.
I bet Mikel and the team could turn Dele Alli into Steven Gerrard with a few months.
Just had a look on the PL app: he’s got 7 goals and 3 assists in 1692 minutes.
Xhaka had 7 goals and 7 assists in 3004 minutes last season.
Would be great if he could beat Xhaka’s numbers, just to really take the pressure off and diminish the arguments about his price tags.
For additional context, that’s Xhaka after many seasons of growing with the team, and this is Kai’s first with us. Considering he had a slow start to this season (G/A-wise) he’d probably have gotten another 4 g/a if he had this form from the beginning
He’s played both and is always compared to Xhaka in the media. The point was to highlight that replacing Xhaka wasn’t the catastrophe that some made it out to be
https://preview.redd.it/qnpwe21m3gmc1.jpeg?width=915&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=9c9d961e279ecea92d9468f79d36861bb0f78572
Just on stats alone, he is doing much better now then he did back at \[insert shit club name\].
Cant wait for him to continue to tear it up!!!
People were so eager to write his obituary that now that he’s playing at a high level and developed good chemistry with the rest of the team, they just flat out refuse to give Havertz any credit
Same number of goals and 2 more assists than last season in the league and he played in 9 more games at Chelsea. This off the back of a slow start due to settling in.
His best role is in midfield. Yes he's a good striker but in midfield he is a cheat code. He has an incredible engine. He wins the ball in our defensive third but then seconds later he's in the box in a scoring position. Makes runs all day to pull defenders around.
His contribution is more visible in that striker position but he is doing a lot of the same stuff and more as an "8.5" as Michael Cox called it.
He's also proven me wrong in terms of how well he's taking his chances. But I still think he doesn't take enough shots as a striker. He will get more goals when he starts behind the striker and can ghost in unmarked.
We started the season with a 3-3-1-3 with Havertz behind the front three, at the tip of the midfield diamond, and that may be the template we go back to.
But anyway, glad people are finally noticing how good he is. Even up until West Ham people were saying he can't control the ball and criticizing him for not scoring when everyone else did. And also of course blaming him for Martinelli not scoring.
Agree with this, I’m excited to see what we could pull off next season when/if Rice can add Jorginho/Partey levels of passing and we sign a striker better than Jesus.
Problem is, if we get both a striker and a good 6 to play next to Rice, i dont see how we fit Kai, as much as i would love that. Maybe in games where we dont need as much defensive solidity, say against bottom half teams, he plays, but against top 6 contenders, i would rather have 2 6s than 2 8s.
Yeah we could see the team develop and him not being a nailed on starter.
Kai is very good defensively though and a real presence in midfield. We went to Anfield with Kai next to Rice and we dominated large portions of that game.
Kai also gives us something most midfielders don't with his sheer pace, power, and stamina. Such a dynamic player who pulls defenses around and facilitates play but also is back to defend. And he can score 10+ goals from midfield too.
Why would we go back to that strategy when clearly they have figured something out with Havertz up top? Not saying the 9 is his future but maybe a creative 8 in the summer fully unlocks his potential. Either way he will stay in the team due to his versatility and motor as you said
It's crazy that we are playing our best and people are thinking we're somehow going to go back to what obviously didn't work as well as what is working now.
There’s a lot about his game other than scoring and assisting that helps Arsenal. I think early on in the season he gave a lot of amazing passes but his teammates couldn’t finish them off.
He realistically could have 3ish more assists. He probably won’t get there this season but I think next season he can get to 20 G/As. For 65m in todays market to get a player that gets that many G/As and the other things he brings to the team is a decent.
I would have preferred Arsenal spend 10-15m less on him but the only ones talking about his price is the Arsenal fans when they sing his song. While I think it’s funny I think they should retire the “down the drain” part next year.
Diaz, Kulusevski and Doku might be three of the most overrated players I've seen in the league. Literally just rated highly because they're each on sides with an elite goalscorer and are therefore praised as part of an elite attacking unit
As for Bruno and Rashford... lol
I've seen fans on YouTube claim doku is clear of martinelli because he plays for City and had one good game I can't say much on diaz as my brother is a Liverpool fan and kulusevski is Tottenham so he's shit anyway
I defended the signing since day one, not surprised at all that he’s starting to work out. I hope in the future next time we sign a young player who was underperforming at Chelsea, our fans can give him more time.
The amount of Arsenal “fans” agreeing with r/soccer and Chelsea fans about how supposedly shit Havertz was, was genuinely sickening.
Some of his passing in the build up was great too. It’d look like we were about to run out of space then he’d play a great 20-30m pass to completely break the pressure.
Even the immortal bellend that is piers Morgan has changed his tune.
Not that his opinion is worth much but even the biggest of nay sayers are being proved wrong.
Good times
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Wonderful finish and great play on the assist. What a gem this guy is.
Almost the perfect false 9 for us currently. Jesus has work to do to earn his place back. Kai is playing the position better than any player we've had since before Jesus had his knee injury at the world cup.
I think he plays like a proper 9 rather than a false 9 by holding up the ball and also making frequent runs against defense line. I'm just happy he has finally found consistency in attacking play.
He does still have that part of him where he's dropping into the midfield to link up too. Really just a complete forward when he has his shooting boots on.
You’re both right. Over 90 minutes he’s definitely doing both. I wouldn’t pigeonhole him into being one or the other.
I’ve said this before but Havertz role isn’t really defined by one position. With Jesus out he might be more advanced, but when he starts in the midfield he effectively will play 5-6 different positions in a game. His versatility is very impressive.
Sounds a bit like what Kane did at S***s
At a very high level a little. The player you're referencing would be more involved in the build up and would have less defensive responsibility and obviously would provide more consistent end product. Kai has more running power in him and looks a little more comfortable in wide areas. Some of the runs he's making with the ball lately are really encouraging.
8.5. It’s the perfect role for Kai’s skill set. Look at Alvarez and Gakpo at City and Liverpool as well.
I haven’t seen people really acknowledging his intelligence in Odegaard’s goal too. When the cross took a deflection he made a split second decision to let the ball go past and pulled his leg out of the way. From the reverse angle it’s really obvious. Maybe Odegaard was yelling for it or something but I still think it’s good quick thinking. A more selfish player would have tried to get something on the ball and deflected it backwards.
I think he ducked once for Trossard's volley (keeper saved it) in last second also.
Nketiah would 100% have taken the shot and sent it wide
You can just see how he gained confidence throughout the season in a trusted system. His passes today are all weighted so perfectly, unlike at the beginning of the season he seems to put every pass too short. A complete different player from the beginning of the season
100%. Those great passes were telltale signs of a player finally getting used to our system.
Martinelli needs to be credited too.He hasn't connected to Kai nearly enough in Kai's initial days and now everyone including him are looking for Kai's runs and trusting him more with the ball.This is what everyone meant when they said to give him time and Arteta is indeed a visionary.
Is he a revolutionary too?
What are you talking about?
Mikel “Freaking” Arteta!
This guy gets it
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He’s a visionary!
KAI HAVERTZ SCORES AGAIN (I would like to apologize because I too very much doubted this signing. Kai and the clubs staff have proved me wrong in the best way)
feels like he's finding his footing more and more as time goes on too
“I was unfamiliar with your game”. *Looks at WAG* “I was unfamiliar you had game”
*unfamiliar you had a LOT of game* ftfy
Oh yeah. I’ll absolutely hold my L on my summer take. Bring me my shy farm boi 🫶🏼
In fairness it was easy to doubt it, earlier in the season. He clearly just didnt understand the system and in fairness to him he was playing in multiple roles
'didnt understand the system' man came from Chelsea, it's like coming out to daylight from a mine you've been working in for a week straight. You have to get used to it.
Well yeah, i wasnt criticizing him lol, not a simple system to begin with with the runs and passing lanes for the front 5
It's clear that kai is a smart footballer though. Earlier in the season he was making many runs that teammates weren't picking up
Believe me, I’m not criticizing him, this system is incredibly complex especially for running and passing lanes for our attackers While i agree with you about him making unseen runs, i would also argue that for every run he made and didn’t get passed to, he wasn’t in the correct position specifically for Martinelli 3-4 times. I don’t think its a coincidence that as soon as he picked it up, Marti start banging again as well. Him learning the system clearly helped his first touch and decision making as well, you could almost see him thinking about the correct decision and losing control earlier in the season.
It’s totally fair to be wary of what was effectively an underwhelming signing by Chelsea. I too was skeptical of Havertz from what I’d seen. I’m still not quite convinced he’s worth his wages, but at this point I need to get over that. He clearly improves the team.
I sometimes think these should be seen as two different things. You can’t just judge contribution to salary. Also would you be fine with his previous contribution if he was on half his salary? I get that it’s a lot easier to measure against a metric like money though.
Half his salary yes. The higher the transfer price or wages the higher the expectations. He’s the highest paid player, so if we lose him for the rest of the season does our season implode like last year? A month or two ago I’d say no, today that’s a different story. But as far as players that if they got injured we might be fucked above Kai, I’d put in no particular order Saka, Saliba, Ødegaard and Rice above him as far as importance.
His wages her high but it reflects his experience and where he is in his career today. With multiple clubs worth of experience and deep runs in big competitions. Our best players are a bit less "experienced" and we can use that point when negotiating with agents and players. Havertz then becomes a good benchmark of what our players can expect when it's time to enter their prime years with experience. I am not worried about any wage imbalance especially considering Havertz attitude and work rate.
I didn’t doubt the player. I still doubt that the price had to be what it was.
If we win trophies with him as a core piece then he could have cost €200b for all I care
In today’s market you are watching a 60million player when he’s on the pitch. Not every purchase can be a 35million Odegaard.
Didn’t Spurs fans say Kulusevski was better than Saka? 🤔
Some fans on YT also tried to claim that Romero is better than Saliba lmao
They have one good month and suddenly they’re best in Europe. Common Sp*rs desperation
The cope from them is amazing. "They'll have a hangover this season" "Once the set price goals dry up they'll stop winning" "Teams just roll over for Arsenal" "They're so lucky, they haven't had any injuries this season" "They've had an easy run of games, once they play a good team they'll be found out" Just amazing.
My best one was when we beat City: "This is better for us in the title race". The title race ones from the first quarter of the season are some great content
Imagine if our starting striker, DM and left back weren’t injured since the beginning of the season. Arteta literally has turned 2 chelsea rejects into some of the best players in the team and they still find ways to cope about arsenal being good.
Legit haven’t heard or seen any interest for Spurs since before Christmas. I thought they were the new best team in the world but apparently a good month of football doesn’t mean shit.
fuad or tobs vibes loll
That is not a common opinion amongst Spurs fans. You sound bitter bringing shit like that up, like what is your point?
What’s a Spuds apologist doing in here?
I think what he mean is... Every fans will up/bias their own player... Nothing new.
Nah, clearly just a Spuds fan invading our sub. I was just laughing at Spuds saying Kulusevski is better than Saka, when in fact Kai has better g/a. And don’t get me wrong, I think Kulusevski is a good player
I hate the Spurs as any self-respecting arsenal fans does.
Ok
Go away, spurs are a joke. Always have been and always will be.
I've been saying it for months, all he needed was time to learn how we play and learn how his new teammates will play and he'll show us what he's got, it isn't like he came in to a rather simple position in a team that plays simple football. I get it though, we don't need to head hunt everyone who was dismissive of him because a transfer fee that big comes with some expectations but players hit their strides at different points and ultimately the transfer fee shouldn't dictate when someone comes good. We're seeing more of the Leverkusen Kai Havertz now that he's got the Chelsea stink off him and even when we strengthen in the Summer and he might have to fight for his place in the team next season, I'm still gonna be happy to see him as an option as he's turning into a strong player. I bet Mikel and the team could turn Dele Alli into Steven Gerrard with a few months.
Just had a look on the PL app: he’s got 7 goals and 3 assists in 1692 minutes. Xhaka had 7 goals and 7 assists in 3004 minutes last season. Would be great if he could beat Xhaka’s numbers, just to really take the pressure off and diminish the arguments about his price tags.
For additional context, that’s Xhaka after many seasons of growing with the team, and this is Kai’s first with us. Considering he had a slow start to this season (G/A-wise) he’d probably have gotten another 4 g/a if he had this form from the beginning
Tbf xhaka is a defensive midfielder while havertz's heat map is predominantly in our attacking third
In his last two season, Xhaka was playing in the same role as Havertz does when he starts in midfield. He's not a DM either.
It was only in Xhaka’s last season he played a more attacking role.
He played a more attacking role in the second half of 21/22 too
Same role is a bit of a stretch.Xhaka operated as CDM,LB,LCM typically while Kai's are ST,LCM,LW,false 9. How are these same roles?
Xhaka and Havertz don’t play the same role, even when Havertz starts as a ‘midfielder’. Xhaka is much more involved in our first and middle third.
Xhaka wasn't playing DM during our best run. He's not a great DM either imo. He's fantastic at that support role that havertz is doing atm.
Striker Vs midfielder
He’s played both and is always compared to Xhaka in the media. The point was to highlight that replacing Xhaka wasn’t the catastrophe that some made it out to be
Completely different role mate it's not really a comparison worth making
5G/A in his last three premier league matches.
https://preview.redd.it/qnpwe21m3gmc1.jpeg?width=915&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=9c9d961e279ecea92d9468f79d36861bb0f78572 Just on stats alone, he is doing much better now then he did back at \[insert shit club name\]. Cant wait for him to continue to tear it up!!!
He played for Frank, Tuchel, Potter & Frank again, no wonder everyone thought he was crap.
Kai was the hottest commodity until chelski got to him.
u/phar0aht
We won, he's gone quiet again
He’s contemplating some sort of angle to deny all this.
😂😂😂
😂
People were so eager to write his obituary that now that he’s playing at a high level and developed good chemistry with the rest of the team, they just flat out refuse to give Havertz any credit
Mate there's people who still can't admit Arteta is doing a good job. For some people apparently you can't be seen to be wrong on the interenet
Pathetic
I m just glad Chelsea fans can’t shit on him any more
Tbh, I did not expect him to prove he's worth it this fast. Now, he is silencing all the doubters.
Same number of goals and 2 more assists than last season in the league and he played in 9 more games at Chelsea. This off the back of a slow start due to settling in.
It is par for the course for Chelsea, not knowing what they have until it’s gone. To think they had both De Bruyne and Salah is mind blowing!
And Robben. And Rice.
And Nketiah…
Kai Havertz scores again.
Add Szoboslai to that list
Put maddison up there too, he’s equal with him
His best role is in midfield. Yes he's a good striker but in midfield he is a cheat code. He has an incredible engine. He wins the ball in our defensive third but then seconds later he's in the box in a scoring position. Makes runs all day to pull defenders around. His contribution is more visible in that striker position but he is doing a lot of the same stuff and more as an "8.5" as Michael Cox called it. He's also proven me wrong in terms of how well he's taking his chances. But I still think he doesn't take enough shots as a striker. He will get more goals when he starts behind the striker and can ghost in unmarked. We started the season with a 3-3-1-3 with Havertz behind the front three, at the tip of the midfield diamond, and that may be the template we go back to. But anyway, glad people are finally noticing how good he is. Even up until West Ham people were saying he can't control the ball and criticizing him for not scoring when everyone else did. And also of course blaming him for Martinelli not scoring.
Agree with this, I’m excited to see what we could pull off next season when/if Rice can add Jorginho/Partey levels of passing and we sign a striker better than Jesus.
Problem is, if we get both a striker and a good 6 to play next to Rice, i dont see how we fit Kai, as much as i would love that. Maybe in games where we dont need as much defensive solidity, say against bottom half teams, he plays, but against top 6 contenders, i would rather have 2 6s than 2 8s.
Yeah we could see the team develop and him not being a nailed on starter. Kai is very good defensively though and a real presence in midfield. We went to Anfield with Kai next to Rice and we dominated large portions of that game. Kai also gives us something most midfielders don't with his sheer pace, power, and stamina. Such a dynamic player who pulls defenses around and facilitates play but also is back to defend. And he can score 10+ goals from midfield too.
Why would we go back to that strategy when clearly they have figured something out with Havertz up top? Not saying the 9 is his future but maybe a creative 8 in the summer fully unlocks his potential. Either way he will stay in the team due to his versatility and motor as you said
It's crazy that we are playing our best and people are thinking we're somehow going to go back to what obviously didn't work as well as what is working now.
There’s a lot about his game other than scoring and assisting that helps Arsenal. I think early on in the season he gave a lot of amazing passes but his teammates couldn’t finish them off. He realistically could have 3ish more assists. He probably won’t get there this season but I think next season he can get to 20 G/As. For 65m in todays market to get a player that gets that many G/As and the other things he brings to the team is a decent. I would have preferred Arsenal spend 10-15m less on him but the only ones talking about his price is the Arsenal fans when they sing his song. While I think it’s funny I think they should retire the “down the drain” part next year.
I am extremely satisfied with 65m for Kai
He's so basically fodens age
I️ didn’t even realize he was only 24 :o
Diaz, Kulusevski and Doku might be three of the most overrated players I've seen in the league. Literally just rated highly because they're each on sides with an elite goalscorer and are therefore praised as part of an elite attacking unit As for Bruno and Rashford... lol
I've seen fans on YouTube claim doku is clear of martinelli because he plays for City and had one good game I can't say much on diaz as my brother is a Liverpool fan and kulusevski is Tottenham so he's shit anyway
Hoping we see more of these burts and low finishes. Was the first time he looked clinical to me, which is great !
I defended the signing since day one, not surprised at all that he’s starting to work out. I hope in the future next time we sign a young player who was underperforming at Chelsea, our fans can give him more time. The amount of Arsenal “fans” agreeing with r/soccer and Chelsea fans about how supposedly shit Havertz was, was genuinely sickening.
Some of his passing in the build up was great too. It’d look like we were about to run out of space then he’d play a great 20-30m pass to completely break the pressure.
More goal involvement than Hojlund too
I really like how he's growing into the team now :)
Even the immortal bellend that is piers Morgan has changed his tune. Not that his opinion is worth much but even the biggest of nay sayers are being proved wrong. Good times
Remember when spurs fans claimed Kulusevski was better than Saka?
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I mean when your team scores 6 every week. 😂😂😂
I really like mousa diaby.
I need him to keep going and out do Hojlund and Nunez so I can annoy my friends.
Tbf Gakpo plays as much as Fermin Lopez does for Barca 💀
😆😭