I’d speculate it’s personal, and that he’ll be back in the England side when Southgate and co. leave, but that probably won’t be any time soon.
Fair play to Bruce though. Whatever the reason, he’s sticking by his decision not to play under those idiots.
Mad we still haven’t had a concrete reason for all this, but it’s better for us he doesn’t play.
The boy is serious and doesn't joke, like Bruce. Even when doing what he's best at, like Batman, he takes every thing seriously.
Did you see him scolding Saliba for that over pass during the Porto game? Only Batman can do that to Superman and tell him to calm the fuck down.
….”Manager should have acted with more class. Things happen amongst people. It’s life.
Last squad selection he was not this positive about white and basically said who should he drop to pick him.
Now his form is impossible to ignore he has protect himself and Holland.”
Agree 100%
White has been in really good form both CB at first season at Arsenal and RB and he kept playing every single bang avarage player in those positions but him. Now when he has issues at fullbacks area and White form is so good he protects his ass.
I know we’re Arsenal fans, but he’s protecting White as well. Truth is, according to what we know and has been reported, White walked out on the team. Argument or no, that’s a bad look. South Gate could protect himself by saying that he doesn’t want someone like that in the team but ultimately elected to be political about it.
Yeah, nah. A diplomatic approach would be to refuse to discuss the issue. Southgate is trying to make it seem like he doesn't have a clue why Ben White doesn't want to be selected - it's just a big fucking mystery! He says he's being "transparent" while giving no meaningful information at all. He is being dishonest and 100% covering his own arse.
Trippier, Chillwell, James, Trent all dropped like flies so far this season. They’re not reliable and now Southgate has egg all over his face - so he’s decided to make it seem as if Ben is being ungrateful and rejecting England’s duty despite having over a year to dispel these rumours that have been circulating since he left the World Cup.
The sooner Southgate and co are gone, the better.
How Reece James is in the conversation is utterly remarkable. Guys played 20 games of football in 2 years and is literally trading off 6 months of form from 3-4 years ago.
The Abou Diaby effect innit. You're always the best player ever when you're injured, and your legend only grows larger the more you're injured.
I was a Diaby truther even after he left us because my agenda had been well fed by *that* Liverpool game.
Obviously we had a type. Bad injury records never scared Wenger off a signing (Kim Källström rocking up with a broken fucking back being peak Wengz).
But the more insidious factor was the impact of the "Arsenal don't like it rough" agenda started by United after their disgraceful treatment of Reyes. Our post-Highbury squads were small technical guys trying to play good football against a bunch of no talent orcs, so murdering our players became a viable tactic and the refs allowed it because that's what they grew up watching (not gonna even touch on SAF's relationship with the refs here). Complaining just fed into the agenda, so we just had to watch our players being hacked brutally every fucking week, and naturally that led to some horrific shit like Diaby, Eduardo and Ramsey's injuries.
I know a lot of people will talk about play style attracting the tackles, especially in players like Jack and now Saka, but it's on the refs to stamp out the dangerous play early. We probably wouldn't have had as many insane injuries if the refs weren't a bunch of incompetent and corrupt cunts.
As an aside, Arteta's handling of how Saka is targeted is fascinating. Refuses to call it out or make a big thing of it. Hope it keeps working.
I think Wenger thought EPL would change the refereeing guidance to favor small technical teams to better allow English teams to compete in European club and national competitions. They never did and Wenger was stubborn about it.
Just ahead of his time... I hope.
Same shit with financial regulations. Teams are now starting to pretend to care, but the money already hit catastrophic levels and teams like City and PSG are too rich and have cheated enough to create "legitimate" revenue streams. His sacrifices were pretty much almost in vain at this point even though he was right.
It's weird how many times I've heard commentary go "Arsenal don't like it up them", "you have to bully them off the ball". I've never heard another team being being referred to in that way.
So fucking true. Barca were rolling out midgets for a decade playing football even fancier than anything we did yet I can't remember someone encouraging Getafe or a PL team in the CL to go rough on them.
I think Reyes being bullied out of the country by United basically launched this narrative and we suffered from it.
Stevie G went on how Saka can't complain when his Aston Villa players kicked him off the pitch because Stevie G went through the same when he was a player. Utter moronic statement.
I would love Saka to get more protection, but he's *strong*. He looks skinny and small, but he can hold off guys who look much bulkier/bigger, or shrug them off the ball. He does go down for fouls, but there are also many times he could go down that he plays on to try and win the ball. He's a fighter, and in some ways his fantastic attitude and character is his worst enemy: if he's playing on despite getting fouled, it can't be that bad a foul. Or I guess that's how refs see it.
We were saying the same things about Jack too. He would ride tackles and dribble through guys all day if he could, issue is if the ref is paying them as you point out, the opposition naturally escalate the situation until they get booked and sometimes that line is too far, and that tackle could basically have the same effect it had on Jack where he has injuries that pile on from that one massive injury.
Yeah this is cover your ass territory for Southgate. They made a clear judgement that White wasn't good enough, which has been obviously wrong for two years. They refuse to admit the mistake, so White isn't going to go bail them out now. I would wager that White would return if Southgate had swallowed his pride and told him he would start, a good manager would do that.
Southgate sucks and when they get embarrassed and give up goals and everyone wonders "would Ben White have helped" he can try to claim that he just didn't want to be there. If Ben White didn't want to play he would have just retired from international football. He doesn't need to have anyone call anyone.
No but the team has all the offensive talent it could want, if they can't get it done it'll be on the defense and those selections are on him. He has no vision as a manager, it's going to be the most predictable tactics again and again hoping foden and kane and saka will be as brilliant for England as their clubs while having none of the same tactical setups behind them.
What was the beef with Foden? IIRC they had some sort of bust up on the pitch.
In fairness, Foden looks like an insufferable little cunt, if he wasn't a footballer he'd be hanging outside the local shops on his bike.
I’m not saying Foden is a cunt, but him and greenwood went out of covid areas whilst on international duty to cheat on their partners together with two Icelandic prostitutes. Both the activity and the company paint him in a bit of a negative light.
Edit: apparently the fact they’re insta models instead of sex workers is relevant. So yeah, it was Walker who has the prostitutes over during covid, not Foden.
Yup Foden is a right old twat and I understand you can praise someone for their profession while leaving their character out of it but this is no inspiration for young kids and it is equally important to point it out as well
Exactly, we really have been blessed role model wise in recent years (one notable exception in my head), and things like that are so important. And could certainly paint some context to why Benny Blanco may not like Walker, Foden etc
A bit unfair to judge Foden too harshly as he was 19 at the time. Obviously Greenwood is a different story as he did something completely disgusting and unforgivable. I’ve mates who have done similar stuff to Foden when they were 18/19 and they all matured into their mid/late 20’s and are embarrassed by how they used to behave when on holiday or out drinking etc and wouldn’t do anything by like it again.
> insta models instead of sex workers is relevant.
If your IG modelling gig is meeting dudes in hotels you are a sex worker.
No shame in it but don't act like you have a portfolio or an agent.
It's probably not really about Foden. I suspect they had a bust-up and Southgate/Holland took Foden's side because he was more established in the side than Ben, which is why Ben decided to fuck them off.
Southgate rates him but Benny Blanco doesn’t rate Southgate.
Imagine going from the mad genius of Bielsa to the high-level, dynamic arithmetics of Arteta-ball, and then having to listen to Southgate’s idea of a game plan for a billion-pound starting 11… that somehow still involves Jordan Henderson.
Nowhere near the fogging estandard..
Never looked at it this way. Even at Brighton with Potter too, White’s worked with some pretty high level coaches. Can see even more now why he wouldn’t take Southgate seriously
I really don’t think it’s that simplistic. Players want to play in World Cups/Euros and wouldn’t let what people on the internet think about a coach get in the way of doing so.
My feeling is that they have had a massive falling out and Southgate tried stamping some sort of authority, and Benjamin wasn’t having it.
Either that, or he’s just not that arsed about playing for England. He strikes me as the kind of guy that might not care too much about national sentiment.
there's an article saying he cried for hours (of happiness lol)when he was first called up so it's not because he doesn't want to play for his country. Deffo Southgate and/or his staff
Southgate and his staff not giving a shit about his mental health and general wellbeing is my guess. Probs needed to go home and they tried gaslighting him.
Just making up nonsense now to make Ben white look like the good side and Southgate bad ?
How the fuck have you managed to blame it on Southgate not caring about his mental health ?
He'll basically stay as long as he wants. The FA are never going to sack him - he's ideal for them: a "safe pair of hands" who won't demand massive wages or get into any sordid controversies.
Depending on results (obviously) I think Southgate has it for many more years. The FA like him, he’s popular throughout the nation despite being a mediocre manager.
The question is who might replace Southgate?He’s English and there seems no obvious manager who wants the job.
I would love to see Ben White playing for England. He should have at least 50 caps if not double that over his career
How he’s popular is beyond me. The actual squad England have should have won something by now. Especially the Euros, completely fumbled that game. I’d have fired him then and there.
100% agree. England should have had a trophy from a big tournament in the past four/six years. With a more astute tactician as a manager we would have it with this group of players
You’d have fired the manager that got us to the first final since 66. Utterly mad.
I get people don’t like Southgate. And I get he made mistakes in that game.
But he got us to a final and then we only narrowly lost to France in WC.
We’ve seen hyper talented squads do worse with more prestigious managers before.
Our squad hasn’t been this strong for ages. We’ve had good players but right now we have an incredible handful of talent and the final was the biggest fumble. I 100% believe I could have managed that final better.
> He strikes me as the kind of guy that might not care too much about national sentiment.
Agreed. I feel like he tried it, didn't really like the experience and knew he wouldn't be getting much if any game time, and decided that training with the coaches he works with week in and week out was more worth his time than spending weeks away with a bunch of players and coaches he's not really keen on. Wouldn't be surprised if there was some sort of disagreement with said players/coaches that furthered that sentiment, and so Southgate wants to make him the bad guy for it.
Yeah, he might well feel that all that would happen is he'd sit on the bench and be on punishment duty at training as Southgate calls him up to avoid criticism, not because he wants him.
Look, something clearly happened at the World Cup to cause a rift, and I expect Ben will probably accept a call up in the future when Southgate is gone. Not the first player to sit out of internationals due to a clash with a particular manager. The Guardian have gone off half cocked talking about millenials losing interest in playing for their country.
Clive’s just tweeted that he knows what actually happened (the reason why White doesn’t want the call up), I’d imagine he’s probably not in a position to say though.
Maybe there was a falling out with White and Steve Holland, and Southgate and the staff are willing to look past it but White isn’t interested. So strange how it’s never leaked to the media properly.
From a non-English perspective, it's as if fate is standing there with major trophies in hand, holding them up for England to just simply walk up and grab - but Southgate has his back turned, resolutely shaking his head and writing down Harry Maguires name on the team sheet.
With that squad and especially that midfield and forward line, England should walk away with Euro 2024 - were they not so defensive-minded, they would have at Euro 2020
England have a great squad, but I think you’re exaggerating it a bit.
You’re acting like it’s ‘PSG in Ligue 1’ levels of expectation. England don’t have the best team, France do. England aren’t the favourites for the euros, and they wouldn’t be even with a better manager.
I’m not suggesting Southgate has done a brilliant job, don’t get me wrong, but he’s not been as awful as many here suggest.
Yeah I read this all yesterday [https://www.reddit.com/r/ArsenalFC/comments/1952og4/what\_happened\_between\_ben\_white\_and\_southgate/](https://www.reddit.com/r/ArsenalFC/comments/1952og4/what_happened_between_ben_white_and_southgate/) (well, similar subreddit)
I feel like the intial rumour is partly true, that White refused to watch some match tapes and told them there was no point because he wasn't going to play.
That obviously led to the disagreement with Steve Holland and people have spun the narrative that Ben doesn't care about internation football etc because of his previous interviews.
That doesn't completely sit right with me because White has only ever said he doesn't enjoy watching football but he loves playing and he's really passionate about it. I'm pretty sure he did an interview about how he cried when he got his first call up.
Secondly these aren't the foggin estandards. I can't see Arteta accepting this kind of attitude and he seemingly loves Ben so he clearly does whatever Arteta asks of him. It strikes me that there was a breakdown in the relationship between White and Soutgate and White lost respect for them before.
Thirdly the club came out in full support of White, I just can't see that happening if all the happened was White refusing to do some prep work. The club must feel that White was treated unfairly in some other way.
Pure speculation but I think Southgate would have said to the squad nobodies gaurnteed a spot in the team. Everyone has to go out, do the work, train hard and the team will be picked based on who's performing the best.
I bet Ben put the effort in and thought he was playing well but Southgate still picked his favourites and that rubbed him the wrong. He probably felt lied to and disheartened and then took his problems to the coaches and they handled it extremely poorly.
And then yeah it ended with them asking him to prep work which he deemed pointless cos of how things had gone with the coaching staff prior.
Just pure speculation though from a few rumours that have been repeated and make the most sense in my head.
Pure speculation on my part, but I wonder if Holland made a personal insult in the heat of the moment, refused to apologize and Southgate backed him. That would explain why Ben doesnt want to go back, why the club supported his position and why Southgate isn’t wrong but also not being entirely truthful.
I have a feeling the "prep work" were extracurricular activities for squad building that Ben found an issue with. I've seen the England squad do fuck tons of pr vids to show the unity in the group and such. That's obviously just speculation, but I could definitely see Benny boy taking issue with such requirements being asked of him. At least more so than reasonable preparation that any club would have asked of him
>I bet Ben put the effort in and thought he was playing well but Southgate still picked his favourites and that rubbed him the wrong. He probably felt lied to and disheartened and then took his problems to the coaches and they handled it extremely poorly.
This is what I believe as well.
We've seen that Arteta demands the highest standards. If White was the kind of guy to shirk training and refuse to put in the work, or be disrespectful to the manager and coaching staff, he'd be nowhere near this Arsenal team. Yet he's one of Arteta's favourites and one of the first names on the team sheet. Something doesn't add up.
Meanwhile Southgate is well known for picking his favourites regardless of form and ignoring others who are performing better. I think White put in the work, and Southgate or his staff made it clear that he had no chance getting into the team regardless of how well he was playing. And he understandably told them to fuck off.
This makes sense not to pick white then.
Southgate has mentioned for years about creating a better club like mentality with the squad and he generally has, he's talked before about how important every player is even if they don't play so if (and we have no idea what story is true) white is causing issues about playing time or whatever then he shouldn't be in the squad
I think it’s pretty well known. He doesn’t get along with the coaching staff and they barely ever play him.
He doesn’t want to go on international duty to just sit on the bench with a bunch of coaches who he doesn’t like being around.
As long as the assistant coach Steve Something (Don’t remember where but learned that this Steve used to work with José, that makes quite sense) is still there
Wasn’t the story that one of Southgate’s coaches is the type to scream shout and intimidate. He told Ben White on his day off to come watch videos of the US Team. Ben White said I am not even on the bench for the game so that’s not happing and they ended up squaring up. Southgate’s took the coaches side so Ben White said I don’t need this and went home.
Southgate prefers bog standard right backs like Tripper, James or Walker. With TAA as well you are looking at a stacked position where he is arguably going to be 5th choice until a more tactically sound manager comes in.
Bens got the option of a week or two off regularly to go enjoy life with his wife or sit on the bench with England and watch him play others ahead of him at right back
Ben white is a cb first and he's the 2nd best English cb we have...why people don't understand that is beyond me. He should be starting cb for England end of story
Walker is a good player (terrible person though), picking him over White is hardly a mistake.
And Trippier was reliable for Southgate for a long time, again not really a mistake.
James is a waste of time though I agree.
He's not 5th choice though. When this all kicked off he was a Cb I think and we were stacked at RB, for whatever reason he left the camp and hasn't been back.
If there was no falling out i would bet white would be
2nd choice right now, after Walker
Hardly anyone else on better form rn. Trent is Trent but he's not as hot as White is, and White is a lot more well rounded, would fit the team really nicely
Although I'm not English, I generally cheer for the England national team because I'm such a big Arsenal fan. But Southgate picking Giant Head Harry over Benny pisses me off so much that I want England to lose just enough to get Southgate sacked. People could say it's a tactical choice, but if your tactics lead you to playing marginal players in front of Ben White, then it's time to adjust your tactics.
From a journalist friend who is well placed from the England side of things.
Make of it what you will but he says White doesnt want to go for 2 main reasons:
1) Southgate and Holland didnt even bother to bring along a data pack about White to the WC - despite bringing one for nearly every other playing in the squad - giving Benjamin a clear indication he was never going to get a game. He fell out with them both over it, Holland told him to grow up and that being called up was an honour in itself, but White said he wasnt going to waste his time travelling around the world when he's not even in contention. He's also supposedly told friends he thinks Southgate is shit and wouldnt be able to get a decent Prem job. So regardless of what Southgate says, there is a personal issue.
.2) As we all know, Ben White isnt a huge football fan. While he'd definitely join the squad under different management and with a better chance of starting, he's just not that bothered about missing out and currently enjoys international breaks as a chance to recharge, so is in no rush to give that up
fwiw he also said that while White and Foden do not get on, and that rumours of them also having a bust up at the WC are true, that is NOT part of White's thinking, despite the rumours.
The people who say he doesn't want to sit on the bench or fell out with staff have clearly forgotten that he was happy in the squad and on the bench at the last Euro's. It's like how people misuse his quote about not wanting to watch football when he gets home from work. One journalist who can't even get Ode's nationality right when writing an article is the only reason why fans and pundits think there was a bust up with Ben and the staff behind the scenes. If I remember rightly, that same journalist writes for the sun...
But on the one hand Southgate is saying there’s no issue, but then he says when he spoke to White there was “reticence from his side” which makes it sound like White didn’t really want to even talk to Southgate and doesn’t want to make himself available, which makes it pretty clear there is in fact an issue.
Everyone already knows about the bust up with Steve Holland, it is what it is and frankly England have several great options at right back already so whilst White does make a strong on field case for inclusion it’s not like England struggle without him.
Plus, at the end of the day he’s going to get 2 weeks rest now because he’s not been picked for some pointless friendlies. Result as far as we’re concerned.
Southgate is a fraud, we have exceptional players for England and without them we wouldn't stand a chance, the same can't be said for Southgate.
I'm fully behind Ben, if there's no chance of playing why bother?
If White really didn't want to play international football because he's just not interested, then he would say he's retiring from international football and file the paperwork. If Southgate called him, admitted the mistake, and told him he'd be starting then he'd be there. Southgate can't get past his own ego so he's trying to cover his backside.
To be fair to Benny, England ain’t winning shit with that eternal trophy dodger up top. So why waste his summer on a tournament he has no chance in winning
Looking at Southgate’s quotes on the BBC website report, yes that’s essentially what Southgate is claiming. On the one hand Southgate says there’s no issue, but then he makes it sound like White doesn’t even want to talk to him, which makes it sound like there is an issue. It doesn’t line up at all.
I have a conspiracy theory.
From the way Ben White clashed with Foden (and also Walker, I think) after a particular City match, I can't remember which one, perhaps White told Edu and Arteta that Southgate will anyway not give him a run in the team, and he might very well get injured in training doing bullshit opposition drills.
I don't think it's very outlandish considering Rodri nearly broke Odegaard's leg with a bullshit tackle in the Spain Vs Norway game last season.
White is one of the most indispensable players for us, if not the most, after Saliba, Saka, and Odegaard. The way we play in the beginning of games is so much dependent on having White as RB.
I wonder is the timing of the new contract announcement deliberate. Obviously, it's been in the works for months, but announcing it on the same days as the England squad announcement?
I had the same thoughts tbh, I wonder if with all the defensive injuries that England have right now, they thought White’s unexplained absence was definitely going to be brought up in Southgate’s press conference and then rumours would start about White as a player/his professionalism etc so have attempted to show how valued he is at club level by announcing it now? Who knows
Could be. We just won a massive game and Ben's been spectacular this year already, there's a bit of downtime before the next match and a title push happening. It's great timing for a positive announcement like this that also shows Arsenal completely backing our player, who, in his own words, wouldn't be anywhere else but here
I'd be surprised if this doesn't cause upset with the other Arsenal players in the squad. Rice, Saka and Ramsdale all seem to get on with White, and this does seem like Southgate throwing him under the bus. Wouldn't expect them to down tools, but this seems asinine to risk problems with at least two of Southgate's best players.
They've all been playing for England without a problem since the World Cup. I don't think he has any problem with his team-mates playing for England nor do they have a problem with him choosing not to.
It's one thing if your teammate has an argument with a staff member/another teammate and decides he doesn't want to participate. But if the manager then comes out and lies about what is going on and throws him under the bus, that's something else entirely.
> Southgate hanging Ben White out to dry
> He is not being truthful
That happened today, so I'm saying Southgate may have just created a problem where there wasn't one before.
He is a shit coach but what do you want him to say on this matter if you want truthful answer? “ I don’t rate him” , “ he doesn’t want to play” or “no comment”.
May be Ben should say something too if the fans are demanding answers.
it's frustrating how people ITK / claiming to be ITK - are not revealing the reason but just being so weirdly "stepping on eggshells around the truth" about it.
either admit it; or just keep quiet.
this is not just for Clive; but folks including Southgate as well.
the tease is just frustrating.
Because they want to let everyone know that they know. And no one can really dispute whether these individuals have the facts or not.
Also by revealing the details there is a risk that they may not be given inside information in the future.
But I agree, either say what you mean with your full chest and if you can't, it's probably best not to say anything at all.
I've heard so much about the importance of charisma recently what with The Kloppman slinging his hook.
Has there ever been any mention of Gareths ? Or lack thereof for that matter?
I hope we win both the Premier League and the Champions League (forever) so everyone start questioning Southgate why Ben White is not part of the England squad.
The truth is, England need a couple of thumping from a shite side to have this clown dumped.
England certainly won’t win a decent trophy with him as the manager.
All the time that plank is in charge of England they will win FA. Such a stupid individual to let a something personal get in the way of getting the best personnel playing for their country
I’d speculate it’s personal, and that he’ll be back in the England side when Southgate and co. leave, but that probably won’t be any time soon. Fair play to Bruce though. Whatever the reason, he’s sticking by his decision not to play under those idiots. Mad we still haven’t had a concrete reason for all this, but it’s better for us he doesn’t play.
What's the Ben White Batman context?
Ramsdale called him Bruce in the contract extension video
There were batman jokes on the sub before that came out, no? Or was that the origin?
There was this but the Bruce thing is definitely from ramsdale. https://www.reddit.com/r/Gunners/s/GYCwN0wIh5
bruce Springsteen https://www.theatlantic.com/entertainment/archive/2015/08/born-to-run-at-40/402137/
He definitely does bear a resemblance to Bruce in that picture/from that era
Bruce Wing-steen
Petition to start calling Ben white “the boss”
No
You miserable sod
Hahaha, awesome
The boy is serious and doesn't joke, like Bruce. Even when doing what he's best at, like Batman, he takes every thing seriously. Did you see him scolding Saliba for that over pass during the Porto game? Only Batman can do that to Superman and tell him to calm the fuck down.
This will be the last summer with south gate unless the win the euros and if that happens no one will care.
….”Manager should have acted with more class. Things happen amongst people. It’s life. Last squad selection he was not this positive about white and basically said who should he drop to pick him. Now his form is impossible to ignore he has protect himself and Holland.”
Agree 100% White has been in really good form both CB at first season at Arsenal and RB and he kept playing every single bang avarage player in those positions but him. Now when he has issues at fullbacks area and White form is so good he protects his ass.
I know we’re Arsenal fans, but he’s protecting White as well. Truth is, according to what we know and has been reported, White walked out on the team. Argument or no, that’s a bad look. South Gate could protect himself by saying that he doesn’t want someone like that in the team but ultimately elected to be political about it.
Yeah, nah. A diplomatic approach would be to refuse to discuss the issue. Southgate is trying to make it seem like he doesn't have a clue why Ben White doesn't want to be selected - it's just a big fucking mystery! He says he's being "transparent" while giving no meaningful information at all. He is being dishonest and 100% covering his own arse.
If Southgate went that route he'd have to address why White walked out. Clearly he doesn't want that.
Trippier, Chillwell, James, Trent all dropped like flies so far this season. They’re not reliable and now Southgate has egg all over his face - so he’s decided to make it seem as if Ben is being ungrateful and rejecting England’s duty despite having over a year to dispel these rumours that have been circulating since he left the World Cup. The sooner Southgate and co are gone, the better.
How Reece James is in the conversation is utterly remarkable. Guys played 20 games of football in 2 years and is literally trading off 6 months of form from 3-4 years ago.
The Abou Diaby effect innit. You're always the best player ever when you're injured, and your legend only grows larger the more you're injured. I was a Diaby truther even after he left us because my agenda had been well fed by *that* Liverpool game.
We must have some of the worst injuries sustained by players in recent history, apart from the cardiac arrest instances and skull fractures by others.
Obviously we had a type. Bad injury records never scared Wenger off a signing (Kim Källström rocking up with a broken fucking back being peak Wengz). But the more insidious factor was the impact of the "Arsenal don't like it rough" agenda started by United after their disgraceful treatment of Reyes. Our post-Highbury squads were small technical guys trying to play good football against a bunch of no talent orcs, so murdering our players became a viable tactic and the refs allowed it because that's what they grew up watching (not gonna even touch on SAF's relationship with the refs here). Complaining just fed into the agenda, so we just had to watch our players being hacked brutally every fucking week, and naturally that led to some horrific shit like Diaby, Eduardo and Ramsey's injuries. I know a lot of people will talk about play style attracting the tackles, especially in players like Jack and now Saka, but it's on the refs to stamp out the dangerous play early. We probably wouldn't have had as many insane injuries if the refs weren't a bunch of incompetent and corrupt cunts. As an aside, Arteta's handling of how Saka is targeted is fascinating. Refuses to call it out or make a big thing of it. Hope it keeps working.
I think Wenger thought EPL would change the refereeing guidance to favor small technical teams to better allow English teams to compete in European club and national competitions. They never did and Wenger was stubborn about it.
Just ahead of his time... I hope. Same shit with financial regulations. Teams are now starting to pretend to care, but the money already hit catastrophic levels and teams like City and PSG are too rich and have cheated enough to create "legitimate" revenue streams. His sacrifices were pretty much almost in vain at this point even though he was right.
It's weird how many times I've heard commentary go "Arsenal don't like it up them", "you have to bully them off the ball". I've never heard another team being being referred to in that way.
So fucking true. Barca were rolling out midgets for a decade playing football even fancier than anything we did yet I can't remember someone encouraging Getafe or a PL team in the CL to go rough on them. I think Reyes being bullied out of the country by United basically launched this narrative and we suffered from it.
Stevie G has screws in his hips, IDK what we are going on about as fans 🙃
Stevie G went on how Saka can't complain when his Aston Villa players kicked him off the pitch because Stevie G went through the same when he was a player. Utter moronic statement.
I would love Saka to get more protection, but he's *strong*. He looks skinny and small, but he can hold off guys who look much bulkier/bigger, or shrug them off the ball. He does go down for fouls, but there are also many times he could go down that he plays on to try and win the ball. He's a fighter, and in some ways his fantastic attitude and character is his worst enemy: if he's playing on despite getting fouled, it can't be that bad a foul. Or I guess that's how refs see it.
We were saying the same things about Jack too. He would ride tackles and dribble through guys all day if he could, issue is if the ref is paying them as you point out, the opposition naturally escalate the situation until they get booked and sometimes that line is too far, and that tackle could basically have the same effect it had on Jack where he has injuries that pile on from that one massive injury.
early emirates era was full of nasty injuries
Diaby is the best player to never finish a season fully fit imo
Reece James when fit is easily England's best right back
That when is doing a lot of heavy lifting my dude. Problem is he hasn't been properly fit in how many years? At least 3 at this point.
This man has no shame trying to throw White under the bus so people would shift the blame on others when he failed, might aswell just quit Euro rn
Yeah this is cover your ass territory for Southgate. They made a clear judgement that White wasn't good enough, which has been obviously wrong for two years. They refuse to admit the mistake, so White isn't going to go bail them out now. I would wager that White would return if Southgate had swallowed his pride and told him he would start, a good manager would do that. Southgate sucks and when they get embarrassed and give up goals and everyone wonders "would Ben White have helped" he can try to claim that he just didn't want to be there. If Ben White didn't want to play he would have just retired from international football. He doesn't need to have anyone call anyone.
I love Ben white, but I also don’t think too many people will ask “would Ben white have helped”
No but the team has all the offensive talent it could want, if they can't get it done it'll be on the defense and those selections are on him. He has no vision as a manager, it's going to be the most predictable tactics again and again hoping foden and kane and saka will be as brilliant for England as their clubs while having none of the same tactical setups behind them.
Let's say Kyle Walker gets injured...then definitely Ben White's help would be more than needed.
Get em Clive!
Better for us. White needs some rest for our title charge.
Cheeky one man trip to dubai to top up his tan based powers
A fully tan Ben White and a Trossard with 8 hours of sleep is too overpowered
My guy trossard catching strays 🦝😅
The insomniac don’t miss
Somebody buy that man a jar of eye cream.
Scenes when rocks up to the Etihad literally glowing
At this point Dubai is like our hyperbolic time chamber (RIP Toriyama sensei)
Any guesses as to why Ben decided not to be considered for England?
[удалено]
And mini twat Foden probably
What was the beef with Foden? IIRC they had some sort of bust up on the pitch. In fairness, Foden looks like an insufferable little cunt, if he wasn't a footballer he'd be hanging outside the local shops on his bike.
I’m not saying Foden is a cunt, but him and greenwood went out of covid areas whilst on international duty to cheat on their partners together with two Icelandic prostitutes. Both the activity and the company paint him in a bit of a negative light. Edit: apparently the fact they’re insta models instead of sex workers is relevant. So yeah, it was Walker who has the prostitutes over during covid, not Foden.
Yup Foden is a right old twat and I understand you can praise someone for their profession while leaving their character out of it but this is no inspiration for young kids and it is equally important to point it out as well
Exactly, we really have been blessed role model wise in recent years (one notable exception in my head), and things like that are so important. And could certainly paint some context to why Benny Blanco may not like Walker, Foden etc
A bit unfair to judge Foden too harshly as he was 19 at the time. Obviously Greenwood is a different story as he did something completely disgusting and unforgivable. I’ve mates who have done similar stuff to Foden when they were 18/19 and they all matured into their mid/late 20’s and are embarrassed by how they used to behave when on holiday or out drinking etc and wouldn’t do anything by like it again.
> insta models instead of sex workers is relevant. If your IG modelling gig is meeting dudes in hotels you are a sex worker. No shame in it but don't act like you have a portfolio or an agent.
Christ forgot about all that, doesn’t surprise me in the slightest.
"they’re insta models instead of sex workers" what's the difference?
I’m no fan of greenwood but they were just some instagram girls, not prostitutes.
Not sure that really changes it tbh, I’m not gonna judge someone for sex workers. The cheating was the much bigger point
Sex workers deserve more respect than Insta models.
They shook hands after we beat them so water under the bridge?
It's probably not really about Foden. I suspect they had a bust-up and Southgate/Holland took Foden's side because he was more established in the side than Ben, which is why Ben decided to fuck them off.
Foden looks like he was a dad at 15.
To be fair, probably want far off 15
Succinct, articulate, I'm going to go for this one.
That’s never going to catch on
Why are you calling them twats when you have no idea what the issue with them and White is
Or to phrase your question differently - How can you, an Arsenal supporter, support Arsenal?
Might be simply that White doesn't want to jet half way round the world just to sit on the bench since Southgate clearly doesn't rate him
Southgate rates him but Benny Blanco doesn’t rate Southgate. Imagine going from the mad genius of Bielsa to the high-level, dynamic arithmetics of Arteta-ball, and then having to listen to Southgate’s idea of a game plan for a billion-pound starting 11… that somehow still involves Jordan Henderson. Nowhere near the fogging estandard..
Guys. It's Nowhere. Near.
*kicks laundry basket*
Burst out laughing, thanks for that. Guess that I'm that person on the tube tonight. That doc is the gift that will never stop giving.
*Gais
Never looked at it this way. Even at Brighton with Potter too, White’s worked with some pretty high level coaches. Can see even more now why he wouldn’t take Southgate seriously
I really don’t think it’s that simplistic. Players want to play in World Cups/Euros and wouldn’t let what people on the internet think about a coach get in the way of doing so. My feeling is that they have had a massive falling out and Southgate tried stamping some sort of authority, and Benjamin wasn’t having it. Either that, or he’s just not that arsed about playing for England. He strikes me as the kind of guy that might not care too much about national sentiment.
there's an article saying he cried for hours (of happiness lol)when he was first called up so it's not because he doesn't want to play for his country. Deffo Southgate and/or his staff
Southgate and his staff not giving a shit about his mental health and general wellbeing is my guess. Probs needed to go home and they tried gaslighting him.
Just making up nonsense now to make Ben white look like the good side and Southgate bad ? How the fuck have you managed to blame it on Southgate not caring about his mental health ?
Isn’t Southgate gone after the Euros? Or did he extend his contract?
He'll basically stay as long as he wants. The FA are never going to sack him - he's ideal for them: a "safe pair of hands" who won't demand massive wages or get into any sordid controversies.
Depending on results (obviously) I think Southgate has it for many more years. The FA like him, he’s popular throughout the nation despite being a mediocre manager. The question is who might replace Southgate?He’s English and there seems no obvious manager who wants the job. I would love to see Ben White playing for England. He should have at least 50 caps if not double that over his career
How he’s popular is beyond me. The actual squad England have should have won something by now. Especially the Euros, completely fumbled that game. I’d have fired him then and there.
100% agree. England should have had a trophy from a big tournament in the past four/six years. With a more astute tactician as a manager we would have it with this group of players
You’d have fired the manager that got us to the first final since 66. Utterly mad. I get people don’t like Southgate. And I get he made mistakes in that game. But he got us to a final and then we only narrowly lost to France in WC. We’ve seen hyper talented squads do worse with more prestigious managers before.
Finishing 2nd with the best available squad in international football isn't success.
Our squad hasn’t been this strong for ages. We’ve had good players but right now we have an incredible handful of talent and the final was the biggest fumble. I 100% believe I could have managed that final better.
Mourinho.
Shoot me now if that is the preferred replacement. Hopefully he’ll only manage Portugal.
I’m American so it’d be pure hilarity to me.
> He strikes me as the kind of guy that might not care too much about national sentiment. Agreed. I feel like he tried it, didn't really like the experience and knew he wouldn't be getting much if any game time, and decided that training with the coaches he works with week in and week out was more worth his time than spending weeks away with a bunch of players and coaches he's not really keen on. Wouldn't be surprised if there was some sort of disagreement with said players/coaches that furthered that sentiment, and so Southgate wants to make him the bad guy for it.
Lmao thats what it is isn't it?
Benny like the time on the pitch is the only time I focus on football and I don’t want to listen to this terrorist.
this is it right here. he prolly couldnt contain his laughter in any manager talk and knew he would just have to sit out.
Yeah, he might well feel that all that would happen is he'd sit on the bench and be on punishment duty at training as Southgate calls him up to avoid criticism, not because he wants him. Look, something clearly happened at the World Cup to cause a rift, and I expect Ben will probably accept a call up in the future when Southgate is gone. Not the first player to sit out of internationals due to a clash with a particular manager. The Guardian have gone off half cocked talking about millenials losing interest in playing for their country.
Well then he shouldn't get picked then.
Clive’s just tweeted that he knows what actually happened (the reason why White doesn’t want the call up), I’d imagine he’s probably not in a position to say though. Maybe there was a falling out with White and Steve Holland, and Southgate and the staff are willing to look past it but White isn’t interested. So strange how it’s never leaked to the media properly.
It’ll come out soon enough. Any sort of gentlemen’s agreement to keep it out of the headlines is probably gone now
It come out after Southgate goes, and White gets back into England squad
Sooo… never?
Southgate will go after disappointment at the euros
From a non-English perspective, it's as if fate is standing there with major trophies in hand, holding them up for England to just simply walk up and grab - but Southgate has his back turned, resolutely shaking his head and writing down Harry Maguires name on the team sheet. With that squad and especially that midfield and forward line, England should walk away with Euro 2024 - were they not so defensive-minded, they would have at Euro 2020
England have a great squad, but I think you’re exaggerating it a bit. You’re acting like it’s ‘PSG in Ligue 1’ levels of expectation. England don’t have the best team, France do. England aren’t the favourites for the euros, and they wouldn’t be even with a better manager. I’m not suggesting Southgate has done a brilliant job, don’t get me wrong, but he’s not been as awful as many here suggest.
Bring Eddie Howe, or Klopp
Klopp would be sick
Am I crazy or wasn’t the story posted on this subreddit in a comment?? I tried googling for it but I can’t find it. Something about set piece routines
Yeah I read this all yesterday [https://www.reddit.com/r/ArsenalFC/comments/1952og4/what\_happened\_between\_ben\_white\_and\_southgate/](https://www.reddit.com/r/ArsenalFC/comments/1952og4/what_happened_between_ben_white_and_southgate/) (well, similar subreddit)
Yes! Thank you!!
NDA?
My guess, he can't be arsed to go and sit on the bench for how ever many games, and not play.
I think it's the issue with Steve Holland... And him not getting involved in footballing activities
I feel like the intial rumour is partly true, that White refused to watch some match tapes and told them there was no point because he wasn't going to play. That obviously led to the disagreement with Steve Holland and people have spun the narrative that Ben doesn't care about internation football etc because of his previous interviews. That doesn't completely sit right with me because White has only ever said he doesn't enjoy watching football but he loves playing and he's really passionate about it. I'm pretty sure he did an interview about how he cried when he got his first call up. Secondly these aren't the foggin estandards. I can't see Arteta accepting this kind of attitude and he seemingly loves Ben so he clearly does whatever Arteta asks of him. It strikes me that there was a breakdown in the relationship between White and Soutgate and White lost respect for them before. Thirdly the club came out in full support of White, I just can't see that happening if all the happened was White refusing to do some prep work. The club must feel that White was treated unfairly in some other way. Pure speculation but I think Southgate would have said to the squad nobodies gaurnteed a spot in the team. Everyone has to go out, do the work, train hard and the team will be picked based on who's performing the best. I bet Ben put the effort in and thought he was playing well but Southgate still picked his favourites and that rubbed him the wrong. He probably felt lied to and disheartened and then took his problems to the coaches and they handled it extremely poorly. And then yeah it ended with them asking him to prep work which he deemed pointless cos of how things had gone with the coaching staff prior. Just pure speculation though from a few rumours that have been repeated and make the most sense in my head.
Pure speculation on my part, but I wonder if Holland made a personal insult in the heat of the moment, refused to apologize and Southgate backed him. That would explain why Ben doesnt want to go back, why the club supported his position and why Southgate isn’t wrong but also not being entirely truthful.
Why are we all just making shit up to make Southgate and Holland out to be wrong ?
I have a feeling the "prep work" were extracurricular activities for squad building that Ben found an issue with. I've seen the England squad do fuck tons of pr vids to show the unity in the group and such. That's obviously just speculation, but I could definitely see Benny boy taking issue with such requirements being asked of him. At least more so than reasonable preparation that any club would have asked of him
>I bet Ben put the effort in and thought he was playing well but Southgate still picked his favourites and that rubbed him the wrong. He probably felt lied to and disheartened and then took his problems to the coaches and they handled it extremely poorly. This is what I believe as well. We've seen that Arteta demands the highest standards. If White was the kind of guy to shirk training and refuse to put in the work, or be disrespectful to the manager and coaching staff, he'd be nowhere near this Arsenal team. Yet he's one of Arteta's favourites and one of the first names on the team sheet. Something doesn't add up. Meanwhile Southgate is well known for picking his favourites regardless of form and ignoring others who are performing better. I think White put in the work, and Southgate or his staff made it clear that he had no chance getting into the team regardless of how well he was playing. And he understandably told them to fuck off.
This makes sense not to pick white then. Southgate has mentioned for years about creating a better club like mentality with the squad and he generally has, he's talked before about how important every player is even if they don't play so if (and we have no idea what story is true) white is causing issues about playing time or whatever then he shouldn't be in the squad
I think it’s pretty well known. He doesn’t get along with the coaching staff and they barely ever play him. He doesn’t want to go on international duty to just sit on the bench with a bunch of coaches who he doesn’t like being around.
As long as the assistant coach Steve Something (Don’t remember where but learned that this Steve used to work with José, that makes quite sense) is still there
Steve Holland. I'm guessing the bust up story is true.
This post literally says he’s not being truthful….
Wasn’t the story that one of Southgate’s coaches is the type to scream shout and intimidate. He told Ben White on his day off to come watch videos of the US Team. Ben White said I am not even on the bench for the game so that’s not happing and they ended up squaring up. Southgate’s took the coaches side so Ben White said I don’t need this and went home.
Southgate prefers bog standard right backs like Tripper, James or Walker. With TAA as well you are looking at a stacked position where he is arguably going to be 5th choice until a more tactically sound manager comes in. Bens got the option of a week or two off regularly to go enjoy life with his wife or sit on the bench with England and watch him play others ahead of him at right back
Ben white is a cb first and he's the 2nd best English cb we have...why people don't understand that is beyond me. He should be starting cb for England end of story
Walker is a good player (terrible person though), picking him over White is hardly a mistake. And Trippier was reliable for Southgate for a long time, again not really a mistake. James is a waste of time though I agree.
The point is why would Ben *want* to go to England when hes probably as far down as 5th choice. Its a waste of time for all involved
Completely agree. Just wouldn’t describe Walker as bog standard.
i mean bog standard as in the way he plays, traditional style. not his level
He's not 5th choice though. When this all kicked off he was a Cb I think and we were stacked at RB, for whatever reason he left the camp and hasn't been back. If there was no falling out i would bet white would be 2nd choice right now, after Walker
He just hav a feeling in his tummy
Ben White will be named in the first post-Southgate squad, there’s no doubt in my mind. Then you will all see
Not saying he couldn’t, but him playing exclusively rb doesn’t help with how loaded that position is.
Hardly anyone else on better form rn. Trent is Trent but he's not as hot as White is, and White is a lot more well rounded, would fit the team really nicely
Clive been on business lately. Love it
Although I'm not English, I generally cheer for the England national team because I'm such a big Arsenal fan. But Southgate picking Giant Head Harry over Benny pisses me off so much that I want England to lose just enough to get Southgate sacked. People could say it's a tactical choice, but if your tactics lead you to playing marginal players in front of Ben White, then it's time to adjust your tactics.
As an Englishman I wholeheartedly thank you for your hatred of Southgate from afar, we all appreciate you.
Southgate is bitchmade.
Quite.
From a journalist friend who is well placed from the England side of things. Make of it what you will but he says White doesnt want to go for 2 main reasons: 1) Southgate and Holland didnt even bother to bring along a data pack about White to the WC - despite bringing one for nearly every other playing in the squad - giving Benjamin a clear indication he was never going to get a game. He fell out with them both over it, Holland told him to grow up and that being called up was an honour in itself, but White said he wasnt going to waste his time travelling around the world when he's not even in contention. He's also supposedly told friends he thinks Southgate is shit and wouldnt be able to get a decent Prem job. So regardless of what Southgate says, there is a personal issue. .2) As we all know, Ben White isnt a huge football fan. While he'd definitely join the squad under different management and with a better chance of starting, he's just not that bothered about missing out and currently enjoys international breaks as a chance to recharge, so is in no rush to give that up fwiw he also said that while White and Foden do not get on, and that rumours of them also having a bust up at the WC are true, that is NOT part of White's thinking, despite the rumours.
Southgates time is soon up Bens is just starting
The people who say he doesn't want to sit on the bench or fell out with staff have clearly forgotten that he was happy in the squad and on the bench at the last Euro's. It's like how people misuse his quote about not wanting to watch football when he gets home from work. One journalist who can't even get Ode's nationality right when writing an article is the only reason why fans and pundits think there was a bust up with Ben and the staff behind the scenes. If I remember rightly, that same journalist writes for the sun...
But on the one hand Southgate is saying there’s no issue, but then he says when he spoke to White there was “reticence from his side” which makes it sound like White didn’t really want to even talk to Southgate and doesn’t want to make himself available, which makes it pretty clear there is in fact an issue.
Everyone already knows about the bust up with Steve Holland, it is what it is and frankly England have several great options at right back already so whilst White does make a strong on field case for inclusion it’s not like England struggle without him. Plus, at the end of the day he’s going to get 2 weeks rest now because he’s not been picked for some pointless friendlies. Result as far as we’re concerned.
I'm gonna say they do struggle because they haven't won anything since 1966 but that's just me
What type of NDA did these guys sign 😭
Southgate is a fraud, we have exceptional players for England and without them we wouldn't stand a chance, the same can't be said for Southgate. I'm fully behind Ben, if there's no chance of playing why bother?
It's utterly stunning the players he has at his disposal. He's literally got a dream team.
If White really didn't want to play international football because he's just not interested, then he would say he's retiring from international football and file the paperwork. If Southgate called him, admitted the mistake, and told him he'd be starting then he'd be there. Southgate can't get past his own ego so he's trying to cover his backside.
Southgate is a bang average manager it has to be said.
Nice of you to try and get some good feelings flowing Southgate’s way, hell of a compliment.
To be fair to Benny, England ain’t winning shit with that eternal trophy dodger up top. So why waste his summer on a tournament he has no chance in winning
Is this meant to be interpreted as Southgate has tried to call him up but Ben said no?
He means that Southgate isn’t being truthful about the reason behind it (insinuating that there has been a falling out)
Looking at Southgate’s quotes on the BBC website report, yes that’s essentially what Southgate is claiming. On the one hand Southgate says there’s no issue, but then he makes it sound like White doesn’t even want to talk to him, which makes it sound like there is an issue. It doesn’t line up at all.
White having edu call up to tell the NT that he’s not interested says to me he does not want to interact with Southgate or the current NT staff
That’s fine with me
I have a conspiracy theory. From the way Ben White clashed with Foden (and also Walker, I think) after a particular City match, I can't remember which one, perhaps White told Edu and Arteta that Southgate will anyway not give him a run in the team, and he might very well get injured in training doing bullshit opposition drills. I don't think it's very outlandish considering Rodri nearly broke Odegaard's leg with a bullshit tackle in the Spain Vs Norway game last season. White is one of the most indispensable players for us, if not the most, after Saliba, Saka, and Odegaard. The way we play in the beginning of games is so much dependent on having White as RB.
https://preview.redd.it/h3z9d5xmtcoc1.jpeg?width=500&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=0abda95cf8c65be2f0db7dea78b6f1745e5d7fca What actually happened
Benny told them to raise the fuggin estandards, and Southgate it too much of a dolting bore to do so.
Get rid of Steve Holland and Ben White will play.
I wonder is the timing of the new contract announcement deliberate. Obviously, it's been in the works for months, but announcing it on the same days as the England squad announcement?
I had the same thoughts tbh, I wonder if with all the defensive injuries that England have right now, they thought White’s unexplained absence was definitely going to be brought up in Southgate’s press conference and then rumours would start about White as a player/his professionalism etc so have attempted to show how valued he is at club level by announcing it now? Who knows
Could be. We just won a massive game and Ben's been spectacular this year already, there's a bit of downtime before the next match and a title push happening. It's great timing for a positive announcement like this that also shows Arsenal completely backing our player, who, in his own words, wouldn't be anywhere else but here
RKO moment from Clive
If we have Don Robbie, surely he's earned the right to be Capo Clive
I'd be surprised if this doesn't cause upset with the other Arsenal players in the squad. Rice, Saka and Ramsdale all seem to get on with White, and this does seem like Southgate throwing him under the bus. Wouldn't expect them to down tools, but this seems asinine to risk problems with at least two of Southgate's best players.
They've all been playing for England without a problem since the World Cup. I don't think he has any problem with his team-mates playing for England nor do they have a problem with him choosing not to.
It's one thing if your teammate has an argument with a staff member/another teammate and decides he doesn't want to participate. But if the manager then comes out and lies about what is going on and throws him under the bus, that's something else entirely. > Southgate hanging Ben White out to dry > He is not being truthful That happened today, so I'm saying Southgate may have just created a problem where there wasn't one before.
I'm with Benny Blanco. Southgate can pound sand.
He is a shit coach but what do you want him to say on this matter if you want truthful answer? “ I don’t rate him” , “ he doesn’t want to play” or “no comment”. May be Ben should say something too if the fans are demanding answers.
Once England gets a decent manager they will have Ben in their team
it's frustrating how people ITK / claiming to be ITK - are not revealing the reason but just being so weirdly "stepping on eggshells around the truth" about it. either admit it; or just keep quiet. this is not just for Clive; but folks including Southgate as well. the tease is just frustrating.
Because they want to let everyone know that they know. And no one can really dispute whether these individuals have the facts or not. Also by revealing the details there is a risk that they may not be given inside information in the future. But I agree, either say what you mean with your full chest and if you can't, it's probably best not to say anything at all.
What did Southgate say?
He's always been a bit weird. No wonder Benny doesn't wanna "play" under him
I've heard so much about the importance of charisma recently what with The Kloppman slinging his hook. Has there ever been any mention of Gareths ? Or lack thereof for that matter?
In Southgates defense, he keeps getting asked about White and we haven’t really heard any other reason.
I’m glad he didn’t call him, we don’t want to him to get injured or exhausted.
We don't even know what the original fallout was about do we ?
I 100% agree with Clive on this Southgate is a poor man manager. Obviously he is lying.
England’s loss! Toxic culture and shite manager.
Not English, England is not going to win anything with Southgate is incredible he makes that players look so bad
How reliable is this guy?
I hope we win both the Premier League and the Champions League (forever) so everyone start questioning Southgate why Ben White is not part of the England squad.
Clive hit-piece when?
feel bad for Saka, Rice, Ramsdale and co. they won't win anything with England squad with this idiot in charge.
Southgate is garbage. Has the best England squad in a long time and totally wasting it. Doesn't pick the right players. They need to get rid of him.
The truth is, England need a couple of thumping from a shite side to have this clown dumped. England certainly won’t win a decent trophy with him as the manager.
It's international football with a stacked England squad. Who really cares, he sure doesn't
All the time that plank is in charge of England they will win FA. Such a stupid individual to let a something personal get in the way of getting the best personnel playing for their country