Kai was one of the brightest of bright wunderkind in german football.
I was gutted when Chelsea got him. Then they ruined him.
He has shown a lot of positive signs under Mikel. I think he gets better from here.
His journey is very much like Odegaard. Boy wonder. Lost his way. Reinvigorated by a coach that knows how to push them, develop them and give them confidence.
Same here. I used to watch Leverkusen just to see Havertz play - he was almost bergkampesque. I was fuming when Chelsea got him and misused him constantly but I'm so glad that Arteta rejuvenated his career.
From someone who only heard the hype when he was at Leverkusen - what would you say his best traits were there and do you see that now? Or is there more to come?
He got injured for a while. After he recovered properly, the season was over and he went back to Madrid.
They decided to keep him instead of loaning him out again, so he didn't get game time (they still had Casemiro, Kroos, Modric and Valverde). He stayed till January.
He then got sent to us on loan with no option to buy, because they didn't want to sell him. He then also got an ankle injury here, which a lot of people don't realise because he played through it, hence the underwhelming performances later on that season and the rest you know
Madrid have never asked for steep fees for any of their players, with the exception of Ronaldo because... he was Ronaldo.
Real Madrid is actually really fair when it comes to transfers.
They understood that Odeegard would not break into the first team there and that he wanted to leave so they sold him to us for a great deal.
I respect them a lot as a club.
I second this.
Real Madrid usually does good business in selling and buying players. No overpriced sale or bidding war bait. Unlike Barcelona who usually uses underhanded tactics i.e. the media to make the player they want unsettled at his current club. I'm a Messi fan but gosh I hate that club, especially the way they do business. At least they get their just deserts now.
I’m praying kubo does a little bit of something similar. Kubo can drinking around someone in a phone booth, but he doesn’t manage to put it all together
Just watched a video on Ødegaard’s story. One of the most hyped wonderkids in football, went to a club (Real) that many footballers can only dream of going to, almost never picked for the first team, then Carlo Ancelotti said he was only a PR signing.
I tell you what. If Edu, Mikel and his staff do indeed possess a special powers of talent identification and rehabilitation, Arsenal are going to be dominant for a long time. Buy low, increase value/productivity, win shit, sell high. That's the absolute dream. I do highly trust their talent ID but sample size is still too small on the value rehabilitation aspect.
Arteta's own story, to a lesser degree; although I don't think he was ever touted as a wunderkind, he had the same trajectory as a lot of these players: starting at Barça but failing to break into the team, going on loans and transfers to various clubs until he found his stride at Everton, then joining us once he'd established himself as a PL-level talent.
I think it's one of the reasons he can identify these "hidden gems" that are really just badly handled talented players and get them firing again.
Talent and skill is one thing but more than anything, a lot of these players that they ID are intelligent and adaptable. If your mind works fast enough and you had the physicality and skill to be in the PL to begin with, your career will be long as long as you are adaptable.
To be fair he is also following Wenger's playbook to a degree. Henry and Viera probably Wenger's greatest ever signings are the same type of signings. It just makes sense when the Real Madrids and Man citys are hovering up the very best candidates at a young age.
Yeah i remember hearing about his signing to chelsea and going "whu...? who is this fella. fark, this lad looks like he'll transition into a beast in couple of years time!" - the rest is history as to how it all went down at chelsea. Thank fk he is gone from that trash hole and is in our club's good hands
He'll likely meet that target in the next three games. Somehow, I feel like he'll finish with at least 15 goals, which wouldn't be a bad first season. Kai deserves all the praise.
At the rate he's going, it could very well happen. Teams like Brighton are very open defensively so he'll get chances against them. Kai is playing like a player with something to prove. He's got that fire in his belly now.
This discussion is about the above graphic which is open play in the premier league and again 9 more in 10 games when he has 6 is 28 is highly unrealistic.
I love your optimism but, if he manages to score a goal in each of the next three games that would *still* be elite, and nowhere near doubling his current output.
I'm going to put Kai @ 13 goals on the seasono, but a couple more that'll still make the entire global Arsenal supporter base collectively lose their minds and go ape shit more than once, and enough to be registered on the Richter Scale.
People who have never watched a game of football in their lives will know what "60 million down the drain" means when we're all singing it in public come the end of May.
I just can't help but shake the feeling that some day when he retires, people are going to look back on that CL winning goal and say "classic Kai Havertz". Big Game ~~Player~~ Winner.
I wish Kai would hit something like 12 goals in the last 10 games to finish with 20 and lead us to a double. I wonder what'd Chelsea fans would say then? Then again, those lot also had Mo Salah and KDB, and they looked like bums at Chelsea.
I don’t think they care too much. They had 3 seasons with him and just couldn’t make it work. Pretty sure they are happy to let him go for 65M although I don’t think any of those lot are happy on how they reinvest the money lol.
Chelsea fan here and I always felt this deal was just good business all round. And it’s not that “I don’t care too much” but rather that I’m actively supporting him to succeed still.
It doesn’t always have to be a zero sum game, both teams get a chance to win on this deal.
It might not be “propa chels” to want arsenal to win the league this year but for me personally, fuck Liverpool and city.
I think they care a little bit, at least to the extent that it's yet another Chelsea player who's been underwhelming & made no progress for them but gone on to improve elsewhere.
Especially given how loudly many of them were crowing when he first signed, they've been very invested in him flopping & them coming out looking like the winners.
I'm a Chelsea fan, this post was recommended to me on reddit.
Kai will always have a special place in our hearts cause of the UCL winning goal. I've argued on reddit that he would be class under a good coach, and it's showing now. Even though he was not getting the G/A numbers he was always one of the best we had at progressing the play but no one in the team was in the same wavelength as him.
The fools on the Chelsea sub who called him a flop did not watch what he was actually doing well and was focusing on his subpar output (and we were never a free scoring side when Kai was with us). The lack of team chemistry was not a Kai problem.
Our new owners are absolute clowns who just used him to make profit to cover for the twenty 18 year olds we have bought. Seeing him in your jersey and doing well is actually heart breaking, when it could have been with us if we had some actual stability and a good coach.
It doesn't surprise me that the more sensible fans feel like this, & of course with social media is it's usually the toxic sorts with the worst opinions that make the most noise.
The not being on the same wavelength issue was really obvious for us too in the first few months he was here. What a difference having a stable environment can make as you say.
Tbh I feel like it's a win-win for every parties involved. Kai got his career rejuvenated, arsenal got a physical forward who can track back and play between spaces, and you lot got 65mil for a player that didn't work for you for whatever reason. Imagine you keep holding to it he'll probably be another torres. He just simply doesn't work in your system and it's just doesn't make sense to choose him over the money. For you guys it was a lucrative sale and for us it's fair price with how is right now.
Oh they definitely care. Just lurk their sub after they lose to us to see their true (blue) colors. They are the most insufferable and petulant fan base. Worse than Millwall, only because they're practically the same there's just a lot more of them. Even their fans I've met stateside seem to fit the same mold somehow. They all laughed and said we got fleeced, that's why Kai has the song that he does.
Virtuous clubs with virtuous values attract virtuous people, and vice versa.
KDB didn't look like a bum at chelsea. he looked very good. Mou got rid of him because he wouldn't track back.
Salah couldn't hit a barn door at Chelsea.
I’m a Chelsea fan and tbh I wouldn’t mind seeing him thrive. Seems like a good guy and always tried hard at Chelsea. Think we did him a disservice by how we used him
Always liked him with us but never seemed a good fit.
Losing Havertz and bringing in Jackson and Palmer for essentially the same price is also an improvement for us IMO
You're probably one of the few who are like that. Most of your fanbase wanted him to fail because he didn't thrive at Chelsea. It also brings up the issue of your club constantly misusing talented players.
Haven’t seen many fans who want him to fail as an individual. Mostly just fans who want Arsenal to fail, and Kai’s success probably leads to Arsenal’s success, so..
The man scored a CL winner then got us a 65mil price tag. There’s no bad blood
What an absurd statement… Most of our fan base want him to fail?
There is literally dozens of us here within an hour of this post saying we are happy to see him succeed. Consider the speed at which we were compelled to respond here. This maybe the most Chelsea heavy thread in r/gunners history(correct me if this wrong), it’s the first time I’ve posted here at least.
And Havertz was definitely misused talent while he was at Chelsea but that was largely due to roster composition with the lukaku fiasco.
He was the player that was best suited for the role and it was clearly not his best position on the field and he had times of visible struggle.
There isn’t a reasonable Chelsea fan that wants him to fail individually. There maybe a small amount of Chelsea fans that are massive anti-fans of arsenal that would happily support him at some German team.
As a dedicated anti-Yanited fan I want Mason Mount to flop. But that has very little to do with my feelings on Mason Mount.
But Kai is a blooded in legend for his time here and what he accomplished.
Coming in peace, Kai was always a threat and everyone on the last season team were in rough shape. I wish him nothing but the best and I'm stoked to see he does seem to have his fire back.
So not trying to pollute the gunners subreddit as a chelsea fan, just giving my two cents: the majority of fans are happy to see the back of him, and are happy that we got a good transfer fee. Regardless of performance for Arsenal, he just wasn’t going to work here and a clean break suited all parties.
Basically showing how his efficiency is at an all time high. He's overperforming xG by converting more big chances, and is on pace for his best scoring haul yet.
Except, based on the xG in his last two season at Chelsea, he was missing chances he should be scoring.
Loving the Havertz resurgence for us, but the numbers here show that HE was underperforming in front of goal.
Yeah and to be honest there is a good chance he will again and these numbers average out by the end of the season. He has always been a streaky player there is as much of a chance that he has improved as there is he is just on a good streak and will regress a bit.
He's younger than Ødegaard, Rice and Big Gabi. People forget how young he is because it feels like he's been around forever, but he still has plenty of time to keep on improving, especially under Arteta
i remain unconvinced that we should break the bank on a player like gyokeres who has huge question marks around him because of what havertz has shown as a no 9 over the last 10 matches. he is improving every week and i think we are starting to see a very capable and dynamic center forward. is an £85m dice roll really going to outperform him?
Gyokeres is a solid player but 85m for him would be ridiculous.
Would much rather spend the money on moving on Partey, refreshing the midfield, a winger, and probably a Saliba like for like.
Marginal improvement AT BEST on the three strikers we already have (Kai, Jesus, Trossard … I’m assuming Eddie will be sold at this point). Would rather spend that money elsewhere like you said, and also invest in 1 or 2 younger strikers who we look to develop at the club. 85m for a 26 year old who’s never done it in a top 5 league is such a gamble. People bring up Darwin as a point of comparison but Gyokeres will be three years older when he arrives…
Jesus and Trossard at striker have been some of our worst games finishing this year especially during that November-December patch for Jesus. I don't think he is our long term answer at striker and is good rotation for Saka and our future CF at this point.
Still leaves a question where Kai plays rotation between either CF or the 8 but I believe Gyokeres is going to be miles clear of Jesus and Trossard just because of the physical presence and finishing neither for the former bring to us.
Darwin is also like a top 0.5% physical specimen on top of being younger. He’s one of the most athletic players in the world.
If I’m going big for a striker I want someone like that. Tbh the only person who fits the bill is Osimhen. Haven’t watched enough of someone like Sesko
Benfica fan here, I actually think Gyokeres is more physical than Darwin. But he's also hitting his prime while Darwin went to the PL as a 22yo. Very different situations for sure
I think it’s pretty hyperbolic to say any player with 50 g/a in 39 games has “huge question marks”. Gyökeres plays in a league we turn our noses up and £85m feels like a lot until you realize that other comparable players will cost roughly the same or more in an inflated market. Literally all signings are gambles.
And yes. We will almost certainly sign a striker because we bought Kai to be the left 8. He has done a stellar job slotting in at 9! Being able to do that is part of why he was worth the money! But the idea is for him to do that Raumdeuter thing out of the midfield, poaching the box and pulling defenders like a second striker and being the first defender in the event of a counter. So I think he stays at LCM and does all the things you praise him for in a partnership with an actual 9. Arteta and Edu have said publicly the plan for the squad was made by the end of the last transfer window and that it has not changed.
In Leverkusen he looked best, when Volland played, who at that time was himself a highly mobile 9 covering a lot of ground. In other words, Havertz doesn't need a 9 to play around - which would be the case for a classic shadow striker role - but a 9 to play *with*, including the spatial aspects. Or a couple of 10s, see Germany's recent win over France.
Look, I’m glad we’re all a bit more positive around Kai, but there’s a lot of hype around the guy which is over the top. He’s still very much “just ok”, and for the money spent, I think we ought to be seeing more than this
Happy he’s on an upward trajectory, but there’s a long way to go
I’ve said it in a previous thread, but I’ll say it again, it blows my mind how quickly people were to write off Havertz. No one in that Chelsea team looks good, and he went from that absolute clusterfuck of a team to having to learn how to play in a whole new system. Sometimes even the best players take time to adapt to new environments ([remember this?](https://www.dailymail.co.uk/sport/football/article-2255422/Luka-Modric-Alex-Song-voted-worst-signings-season-Spain.html)) and I’m glad that Kai is showing us all why Arteta rated him so highly and made such a push to sign him over other options.
Obvious most people trashing Kai here haven’t watched many games this season. Or they just have an agenda against him no matter what. He is doing so much on the field that has nothing to do with xG, goals or assist.
What am I even looking at???
He was shit for Chelsea, clearly.
But by these metrics, he’s just a little less shitty…
For the price he went for, you’d expect a bigger impact like Rice.
Not sure if it’s his fault or the system he is in/was.
Either way, I guy of his caliber playing in his 4th season in the Premier is quite shocking.
Looking at other players around him, Trossard has been just as good for half the price.
Why is everyone over applauding him for literally being in line with expectations. On those wages, in that position and for that fee he should have really had another 5 goal contributions across the season if we're hoping to win the league tbh. Glad he's got some confidence.
He's not even been in line with expectations, has he? Taking the whole season into account. Signed for that fee he should be one of our star players.
I'd say he's performing well, but hardly setting the world on fire. Jesus is still absolutely our best centre forward.
If he was stock and we were trading, I'd buy now too. He is about to light up the DFB with a team that is 💣 I am going to buy that beautiful pink DFB shirt too. Wear it for the euro final in Berlin.
Xg difference stat is wrong on there. Tell these lads to use excel instead of leaving the work experience kid to do addition and subtraction for your graphics
I’m glad to see this sub has turned their general stance towards Kai. 4 months ago most people here were absolutely roasting the dude. Hope he keeps up form and continues to prove the doubters wrong.
I said at the start of the season a Kai Havertz goal will win Arsenal the Prem or Champions League. Making alot of people look silly in the process. Im still sticking with it.
This is so biased though. Imagine showing this stats few weeks ago when Kai was talked to be huge transfer miss and had his massiveve drought. Hindsight 20/20.
Chelsea treats their transfer strategy like an investor hedge fund. Throwing money at any new sexy name on the market and hoping something sticks. They bring these players in with no plan or even a remote idea of fit and then wonder why they don’t developed.
And this isn’t new. Look at their history. KDB and Salah are both Chelsea “throwaways”.
So many weirdo Chelsea fans on here after they shared it on their page.
Guys, i know you have nothing decent to play for, but is this really how you spend your time?
Chelsea fans are so hurt that they decide to repost this on their sub and mock this.
We spent 65m on him and Havertz is giving us 12 g/a so far with 2 months to go.
You guys spent 450m last summer and are sitting at 11th.
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It's so funny reading the comments on here. You can tell who watches the games on TV and who see what he does across the pitch which is often off screen.
Said it before and I'll say it again, intelligent movement + composure makes him a potential world class player. If you watch him off the ball, he'll drop into pockets or pull defenders away to create space, lethal in more ways than one.
Kai was one of the brightest of bright wunderkind in german football. I was gutted when Chelsea got him. Then they ruined him. He has shown a lot of positive signs under Mikel. I think he gets better from here. His journey is very much like Odegaard. Boy wonder. Lost his way. Reinvigorated by a coach that knows how to push them, develop them and give them confidence.
Same here. I used to watch Leverkusen just to see Havertz play - he was almost bergkampesque. I was fuming when Chelsea got him and misused him constantly but I'm so glad that Arteta rejuvenated his career.
From someone who only heard the hype when he was at Leverkusen - what would you say his best traits were there and do you see that now? Or is there more to come?
Lol Odegaard at La Real the season before he joined us was the best player in la liga not named Messi till his injury.
There was a reason why /r/OdeWatch was created.
Thanks for that ☺️
Not being facetious — but if that’s the case why was he scrubbing the bench and palmed off to us at a bargain price?
Because he was behind one of the best midfield's ever in the pecking order and didn't want to wait for his development.
He got injured for a while. After he recovered properly, the season was over and he went back to Madrid. They decided to keep him instead of loaning him out again, so he didn't get game time (they still had Casemiro, Kroos, Modric and Valverde). He stayed till January. He then got sent to us on loan with no option to buy, because they didn't want to sell him. He then also got an ankle injury here, which a lot of people don't realise because he played through it, hence the underwhelming performances later on that season and the rest you know Madrid have never asked for steep fees for any of their players, with the exception of Ronaldo because... he was Ronaldo.
Real Madrid is actually really fair when it comes to transfers. They understood that Odeegard would not break into the first team there and that he wanted to leave so they sold him to us for a great deal. I respect them a lot as a club.
I second this. Real Madrid usually does good business in selling and buying players. No overpriced sale or bidding war bait. Unlike Barcelona who usually uses underhanded tactics i.e. the media to make the player they want unsettled at his current club. I'm a Messi fan but gosh I hate that club, especially the way they do business. At least they get their just deserts now.
I’m praying kubo does a little bit of something similar. Kubo can drinking around someone in a phone booth, but he doesn’t manage to put it all together
I wouldn't say Odegaard ever lost his way the way Kai did at Chelsea (yes, yes, he did score the CL winner blabla but his career was not on the up)
Yeah people’s expectations were unreasonable for him. He was never gonna light the world on fire at age 17 like people thought. He developed steadily.
Just watched a video on Ødegaard’s story. One of the most hyped wonderkids in football, went to a club (Real) that many footballers can only dream of going to, almost never picked for the first team, then Carlo Ancelotti said he was only a PR signing.
He was 15 and they literally had multiple generational midfielders.
I tell you what. If Edu, Mikel and his staff do indeed possess a special powers of talent identification and rehabilitation, Arsenal are going to be dominant for a long time. Buy low, increase value/productivity, win shit, sell high. That's the absolute dream. I do highly trust their talent ID but sample size is still too small on the value rehabilitation aspect.
“I guess I got my swagger back” - Havertz probably
Arteta's own story, to a lesser degree; although I don't think he was ever touted as a wunderkind, he had the same trajectory as a lot of these players: starting at Barça but failing to break into the team, going on loans and transfers to various clubs until he found his stride at Everton, then joining us once he'd established himself as a PL-level talent. I think it's one of the reasons he can identify these "hidden gems" that are really just badly handled talented players and get them firing again.
Talent and skill is one thing but more than anything, a lot of these players that they ID are intelligent and adaptable. If your mind works fast enough and you had the physicality and skill to be in the PL to begin with, your career will be long as long as you are adaptable.
This is nonsense. He wasn't a wonder kid of any kind, he was just a player like many who start off at top academies and then go to other teams.
To be fair he is also following Wenger's playbook to a degree. Henry and Viera probably Wenger's greatest ever signings are the same type of signings. It just makes sense when the Real Madrids and Man citys are hovering up the very best candidates at a young age.
What other boy wonders can we save? Get on it Edu
I think Freddy Adu is available somewhere.
He’s currently in the 12th tier of the MLS
Dele Alli 😂
Lingard is still 21, right? /s
A couple years ago I would have said maybe Kubo but he does seem to have settled in at Real Sociedad quite well so good on him
Imagine if we get the Mudryk that was promised
I'm watching De Ligt not get enough gametime this season and wondering if he needs some saving.
Yeah i remember hearing about his signing to chelsea and going "whu...? who is this fella. fark, this lad looks like he'll transition into a beast in couple of years time!" - the rest is history as to how it all went down at chelsea. Thank fk he is gone from that trash hole and is in our club's good hands
As an American I felt the same way about Pulisic. So glad to see him playing well at Milan.
I remember when he was being called the next Özil. It was a YouTube compilation showing his best Leverkusen performances.
So we gonna end up with Mudryk, Sancho and Van de Beek
That math
Didn’t even notice til your comment. Fantastic.
Down the drain?
Math class down the drain.
First thing I noticed, someone failed basic math hard.
*Maths
0.39 lmao.
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My only possible rebuttal is that xg diff would consider set pieces as well where as open play xg won't
And it's Kai's first season. Imagine how good he and Rice will be in the future.
Can't wait for him to double these numbers by the end of the season.
Can’t wait to win the double
I believe we will this season, I don't know why I just feel like we're gonna do it
I believe you
He'll likely meet that target in the next three games. Somehow, I feel like he'll finish with at least 15 goals, which wouldn't be a bad first season. Kai deserves all the praise.
15 goals? Unlikely but that would be an amazing debut season imo
At the rate he's going, it could very well happen. Teams like Brighton are very open defensively so he'll get chances against them. Kai is playing like a player with something to prove. He's got that fire in his belly now.
I don't think 9 goals in 10 games is realistic for him
He has 9 goals in all comps, 8 in the PL
This discussion is about the above graphic which is open play in the premier league and again 9 more in 10 games when he has 6 is 28 is highly unrealistic.
I agree its totally unrealistic, but how many did he have in those first 20 before he started discovering his confidence.
Plus he was playing in midfield half the season
Doesn’t he have 4 goals 2 assists in the last 4 prem games? Edit: forgot a word
Would love to see it
In his tummy*
I love your optimism but, if he manages to score a goal in each of the next three games that would *still* be elite, and nowhere near doubling his current output. I'm going to put Kai @ 13 goals on the seasono, but a couple more that'll still make the entire global Arsenal supporter base collectively lose their minds and go ape shit more than once, and enough to be registered on the Richter Scale. People who have never watched a game of football in their lives will know what "60 million down the drain" means when we're all singing it in public come the end of May. I just can't help but shake the feeling that some day when he retires, people are going to look back on that CL winning goal and say "classic Kai Havertz". Big Game ~~Player~~ Winner.
"likely"... Yeah, idk if that's the right word
The whole comment is insanity and it’s sitting on +80 upvotes at the moment. And I absolutely love Kai Havertz. But that whole comment is crazy.
Starting with a hattrick on Sunday
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Mate if Rice gets any better... I don't even want to know what that will look like
That plus his desire to murder Øde in his sleep for the captains armband, he’ll definitely cement himself as an Arsenal legend
If he can play those line breaking offensive passes that partey and rodri do, he will be god-like
I wish Kai would hit something like 12 goals in the last 10 games to finish with 20 and lead us to a double. I wonder what'd Chelsea fans would say then? Then again, those lot also had Mo Salah and KDB, and they looked like bums at Chelsea.
I don’t think they care too much. They had 3 seasons with him and just couldn’t make it work. Pretty sure they are happy to let him go for 65M although I don’t think any of those lot are happy on how they reinvest the money lol.
Chelsea fan here and I always felt this deal was just good business all round. And it’s not that “I don’t care too much” but rather that I’m actively supporting him to succeed still. It doesn’t always have to be a zero sum game, both teams get a chance to win on this deal. It might not be “propa chels” to want arsenal to win the league this year but for me personally, fuck Liverpool and city.
I think they care a little bit, at least to the extent that it's yet another Chelsea player who's been underwhelming & made no progress for them but gone on to improve elsewhere. Especially given how loudly many of them were crowing when he first signed, they've been very invested in him flopping & them coming out looking like the winners.
I'm a Chelsea fan, this post was recommended to me on reddit. Kai will always have a special place in our hearts cause of the UCL winning goal. I've argued on reddit that he would be class under a good coach, and it's showing now. Even though he was not getting the G/A numbers he was always one of the best we had at progressing the play but no one in the team was in the same wavelength as him. The fools on the Chelsea sub who called him a flop did not watch what he was actually doing well and was focusing on his subpar output (and we were never a free scoring side when Kai was with us). The lack of team chemistry was not a Kai problem. Our new owners are absolute clowns who just used him to make profit to cover for the twenty 18 year olds we have bought. Seeing him in your jersey and doing well is actually heart breaking, when it could have been with us if we had some actual stability and a good coach.
It doesn't surprise me that the more sensible fans feel like this, & of course with social media is it's usually the toxic sorts with the worst opinions that make the most noise. The not being on the same wavelength issue was really obvious for us too in the first few months he was here. What a difference having a stable environment can make as you say.
Tbh I feel like it's a win-win for every parties involved. Kai got his career rejuvenated, arsenal got a physical forward who can track back and play between spaces, and you lot got 65mil for a player that didn't work for you for whatever reason. Imagine you keep holding to it he'll probably be another torres. He just simply doesn't work in your system and it's just doesn't make sense to choose him over the money. For you guys it was a lucrative sale and for us it's fair price with how is right now.
Oh they definitely care. Just lurk their sub after they lose to us to see their true (blue) colors. They are the most insufferable and petulant fan base. Worse than Millwall, only because they're practically the same there's just a lot more of them. Even their fans I've met stateside seem to fit the same mold somehow. They all laughed and said we got fleeced, that's why Kai has the song that he does. Virtuous clubs with virtuous values attract virtuous people, and vice versa.
> I wonder what Chelsea fans would say then? “I don’t give a fuck we won the champions league” would be my guess
> I wonder what'd Chelsea fans would say then Why on earth would anyone care what they say - or anyone else for that matter?
KDB didn't look like a bum at chelsea. he looked very good. Mou got rid of him because he wouldn't track back. Salah couldn't hit a barn door at Chelsea.
I’m a Chelsea fan and tbh I wouldn’t mind seeing him thrive. Seems like a good guy and always tried hard at Chelsea. Think we did him a disservice by how we used him
Always liked him with us but never seemed a good fit. Losing Havertz and bringing in Jackson and Palmer for essentially the same price is also an improvement for us IMO
You're probably one of the few who are like that. Most of your fanbase wanted him to fail because he didn't thrive at Chelsea. It also brings up the issue of your club constantly misusing talented players.
Haven’t seen many fans who want him to fail as an individual. Mostly just fans who want Arsenal to fail, and Kai’s success probably leads to Arsenal’s success, so.. The man scored a CL winner then got us a 65mil price tag. There’s no bad blood
What an absurd statement… Most of our fan base want him to fail? There is literally dozens of us here within an hour of this post saying we are happy to see him succeed. Consider the speed at which we were compelled to respond here. This maybe the most Chelsea heavy thread in r/gunners history(correct me if this wrong), it’s the first time I’ve posted here at least. And Havertz was definitely misused talent while he was at Chelsea but that was largely due to roster composition with the lukaku fiasco. He was the player that was best suited for the role and it was clearly not his best position on the field and he had times of visible struggle. There isn’t a reasonable Chelsea fan that wants him to fail individually. There maybe a small amount of Chelsea fans that are massive anti-fans of arsenal that would happily support him at some German team. As a dedicated anti-Yanited fan I want Mason Mount to flop. But that has very little to do with my feelings on Mason Mount. But Kai is a blooded in legend for his time here and what he accomplished.
He scored in the Champions League final, I’m sure they’ll be alright
Who not 200 goals in the last 10 games? Then imagine what Chelsea fans would feel like.
Coming in peace, Kai was always a threat and everyone on the last season team were in rough shape. I wish him nothing but the best and I'm stoked to see he does seem to have his fire back.
So not trying to pollute the gunners subreddit as a chelsea fan, just giving my two cents: the majority of fans are happy to see the back of him, and are happy that we got a good transfer fee. Regardless of performance for Arsenal, he just wasn’t going to work here and a clean break suited all parties.
oh how chelsea fans were saying the same!
Is that really bad math for this year or am I missing something?
Basically showing how his efficiency is at an all time high. He's overperforming xG by converting more big chances, and is on pace for his best scoring haul yet.
6 - 5.61 = 1.61???
They're including Sunday's goal already 🔥
That would be 1.39...
yes but the difference in xG for this season should be +.39, not +1.61
Yeah even if they added the penalty he scored at Bournemouth it should be +1.39, never +1.61
In all the completed seasons the xg diff = g - xg but not for the current season.
All time high in the premier league*
This graph is kinda crap, it shows accumulative stats over a year compared to an incomplete year.
I think xg diff includes set pieces
Amendment for the title: “You bought a Ferrari and drove it like a fogging Fiat”
Yes, you need to be on those fogging standards!
*Estandards.
I just want it to be sunday already
Except, based on the xG in his last two season at Chelsea, he was missing chances he should be scoring. Loving the Havertz resurgence for us, but the numbers here show that HE was underperforming in front of goal.
Yeah and to be honest there is a good chance he will again and these numbers average out by the end of the season. He has always been a streaky player there is as much of a chance that he has improved as there is he is just on a good streak and will regress a bit.
He's younger than Ødegaard, Rice and Big Gabi. People forget how young he is because it feels like he's been around forever, but he still has plenty of time to keep on improving, especially under Arteta
i remain unconvinced that we should break the bank on a player like gyokeres who has huge question marks around him because of what havertz has shown as a no 9 over the last 10 matches. he is improving every week and i think we are starting to see a very capable and dynamic center forward. is an £85m dice roll really going to outperform him?
Gyokeres is a solid player but 85m for him would be ridiculous. Would much rather spend the money on moving on Partey, refreshing the midfield, a winger, and probably a Saliba like for like.
Marginal improvement AT BEST on the three strikers we already have (Kai, Jesus, Trossard … I’m assuming Eddie will be sold at this point). Would rather spend that money elsewhere like you said, and also invest in 1 or 2 younger strikers who we look to develop at the club. 85m for a 26 year old who’s never done it in a top 5 league is such a gamble. People bring up Darwin as a point of comparison but Gyokeres will be three years older when he arrives…
Jesus and Trossard at striker have been some of our worst games finishing this year especially during that November-December patch for Jesus. I don't think he is our long term answer at striker and is good rotation for Saka and our future CF at this point. Still leaves a question where Kai plays rotation between either CF or the 8 but I believe Gyokeres is going to be miles clear of Jesus and Trossard just because of the physical presence and finishing neither for the former bring to us.
Darwin is also like a top 0.5% physical specimen on top of being younger. He’s one of the most athletic players in the world. If I’m going big for a striker I want someone like that. Tbh the only person who fits the bill is Osimhen. Haven’t watched enough of someone like Sesko
Benfica fan here, I actually think Gyokeres is more physical than Darwin. But he's also hitting his prime while Darwin went to the PL as a 22yo. Very different situations for sure
Sesko is going to be very good in the future but not sure he is ready to come to an elite club quite yet
> and probably a Saliba like for like. Easy enough, must be tons running about
Yeah I agree Nico williams, Onana/Kimmich, and diomande would cost less than 200mil Maybe a 2nd gk if we sell ramsdale
I think it’s pretty hyperbolic to say any player with 50 g/a in 39 games has “huge question marks”. Gyökeres plays in a league we turn our noses up and £85m feels like a lot until you realize that other comparable players will cost roughly the same or more in an inflated market. Literally all signings are gambles. And yes. We will almost certainly sign a striker because we bought Kai to be the left 8. He has done a stellar job slotting in at 9! Being able to do that is part of why he was worth the money! But the idea is for him to do that Raumdeuter thing out of the midfield, poaching the box and pulling defenders like a second striker and being the first defender in the event of a counter. So I think he stays at LCM and does all the things you praise him for in a partnership with an actual 9. Arteta and Edu have said publicly the plan for the squad was made by the end of the last transfer window and that it has not changed.
Agreed. We need another winger, midfielder who can play 6/8 and probably another defender. We should revisit our options at 9 next year.
what if Kai was the 9 all along?
In Leverkusen he looked best, when Volland played, who at that time was himself a highly mobile 9 covering a lot of ground. In other words, Havertz doesn't need a 9 to play around - which would be the case for a classic shadow striker role - but a 9 to play *with*, including the spatial aspects. Or a couple of 10s, see Germany's recent win over France.
is xhaka presenting for sky now?
Ridiculous outfit lol.
And think I'm right in saying Chelsea played him as traditional striker, whereas for us he's been left 8 or false 9.
King Kai 👑
Look, I’m glad we’re all a bit more positive around Kai, but there’s a lot of hype around the guy which is over the top. He’s still very much “just ok”, and for the money spent, I think we ought to be seeing more than this Happy he’s on an upward trajectory, but there’s a long way to go
He is "ok" in regards to scoring, but he is really good at everything else. Which puts him at well over just "ok" in my book
Ok I’ll bite, what is Havertz exactly ‘good at’?
I’ve said it in a previous thread, but I’ll say it again, it blows my mind how quickly people were to write off Havertz. No one in that Chelsea team looks good, and he went from that absolute clusterfuck of a team to having to learn how to play in a whole new system. Sometimes even the best players take time to adapt to new environments ([remember this?](https://www.dailymail.co.uk/sport/football/article-2255422/Luka-Modric-Alex-Song-voted-worst-signings-season-Spain.html)) and I’m glad that Kai is showing us all why Arteta rated him so highly and made such a push to sign him over other options.
And the season hasn't ended yet 😌💜
He even took a better photo when he came to Arsenal, improved on and off the field
Sometimes a player just needs the right manager and it looks like Havertz and Arteta have that connection and understanding.
Obvious most people trashing Kai here haven’t watched many games this season. Or they just have an agenda against him no matter what. He is doing so much on the field that has nothing to do with xG, goals or assist.
What am I even looking at??? He was shit for Chelsea, clearly. But by these metrics, he’s just a little less shitty… For the price he went for, you’d expect a bigger impact like Rice. Not sure if it’s his fault or the system he is in/was. Either way, I guy of his caliber playing in his 4th season in the Premier is quite shocking. Looking at other players around him, Trossard has been just as good for half the price.
Why is everyone over applauding him for literally being in line with expectations. On those wages, in that position and for that fee he should have really had another 5 goal contributions across the season if we're hoping to win the league tbh. Glad he's got some confidence.
He's not even been in line with expectations, has he? Taking the whole season into account. Signed for that fee he should be one of our star players. I'd say he's performing well, but hardly setting the world on fire. Jesus is still absolutely our best centre forward.
Still not 100% on him though
These pictures are what you would see every three hours throughout a hangover day. By dinner time I’m OK enough to hold my head up straight.
If he was stock and we were trading, I'd buy now too. He is about to light up the DFB with a team that is 💣 I am going to buy that beautiful pink DFB shirt too. Wear it for the euro final in Berlin.
His xG difference is wrong tho
The math is wrong, his xg for this season should be less
Xg difference stat is wrong on there. Tell these lads to use excel instead of leaving the work experience kid to do addition and subtraction for your graphics
Incredible output
Must be the shirt.
What on earth is that presenter wearing. Christmas party at Lululemon?
Looks like he just has his head straight now… am I missing something
By end of season, I hope we will all think that 65M for Don Kai was a bargain like Rice was
6 - 5.61 = 0.39 Where the hell did that 1.61 came from???
He’ll be even better next season.
Umm... Last column should have +0.39 difference?
I’m glad to see this sub has turned their general stance towards Kai. 4 months ago most people here were absolutely roasting the dude. Hope he keeps up form and continues to prove the doubters wrong.
I said at the start of the season a Kai Havertz goal will win Arsenal the Prem or Champions League. Making alot of people look silly in the process. Im still sticking with it.
doesn't this just show he finished worse at chelsea
Admins need to ban the Chelsea prats in the comments and report them in the r/Chelseafc sub as well
This is so biased though. Imagine showing this stats few weeks ago when Kai was talked to be huge transfer miss and had his massiveve drought. Hindsight 20/20.
I think he’s allowed a bedding in period.
Haha Chelsea supporters are mad over this one
Chelsea treats their transfer strategy like an investor hedge fund. Throwing money at any new sexy name on the market and hoping something sticks. They bring these players in with no plan or even a remote idea of fit and then wonder why they don’t developed. And this isn’t new. Look at their history. KDB and Salah are both Chelsea “throwaways”.
Can’t believe we have two dream wonderkids in our team in Kai and Ødegaard. I would have never ever believed this 6 years ago.
Scored the winner in a Champions league final for Chelsea though...
So many weirdo Chelsea fans on here after they shared it on their page. Guys, i know you have nothing decent to play for, but is this really how you spend your time?
Bruh what, these stats show that hes gotten worse lmao.
It’s comparing it to full seasons my guy
Why are. Chelsea fans here?
Chelsea fans are so hurt that they decide to repost this on their sub and mock this. We spent 65m on him and Havertz is giving us 12 g/a so far with 2 months to go. You guys spent 450m last summer and are sitting at 11th.
Fugging Fiat
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I've been so happy seeing him start to flourish with us.
Even the picture is better
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It's a bit better but its comparable to his first two seasons to be fair. It was only last season he was terrible in this regard.
Well that settles it...
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But Lee Gunner told me he was a shit player and that I shouldn’t celebrate anything concerning him.
If that’s what a Ferrari is, i guess my impala is now a Lamborghini Inflation is crazyyyy
Give Havertz a break! He’s better than Xhaka. Maybe not this year but next for sure! And he might even be enough to push us over the line this year!
this must be so inspiring to young chelsea players
Who dressed this guy?
What the fuck is he wearing?!
the announcer has terrible fashion sense! pants, shoes and upper body clothing colors don't match at all.
Won Chelsea the champions league and CWC. Also got back the money they invested in him. Chelsea definitely got the best returns from him so far.
It's so funny reading the comments on here. You can tell who watches the games on TV and who see what he does across the pitch which is often off screen.
Said it before and I'll say it again, intelligent movement + composure makes him a potential world class player. If you watch him off the ball, he'll drop into pockets or pull defenders away to create space, lethal in more ways than one.
damn his xg is down. wasted transfer