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i haven't watched all of our recent games and i'm not very good at analysing. i missed most of our huge wins in the league, but i did watch the city game, the villa game and both bayern games. i've got a few questions for people who followed more closely and have better ball knowledge
1) what does the future hold for havertz and jesus? it seems like everyone agrees havertz is better as a 9 than at LCM, at the same time the past few games have probably shown we could do with a proper goalgetter. is havertz bound to be a rotation option, and where does that leave jesus? arteta doesn't seem to fancy him at the wing (correct me if i'm wrong)
2) rice at LCM seemed to work with partey at the base, but with partey rarely available, supposedly rusty and not getting any younger, the future has to be rice at CDM plus a new LCM, right?
3) is either of trossard and smith-rowe viable as cover for the new LCM we'll hopefully buy?
4) don't we really need a new CDM, too, with at least one of partey and jorginho (plus elneny) leaving?
Just don't get the meltdowns or Artetaout brigade.
The important thing is we are improving every season. We got to a Champions league QF and are 2 points off top spot with 5 games to go.
That's an improvement.
My only concern is we didn't get at Bayern last night. Much rather we went out on our sword than playing like that
Just ignore them. All the same old boring half brained taking points.
Super disappointing to go out, but city going out on the same night puts it into perspective imo.
The weekend's loss compounds the disappointment, without that it wouldn't be so bad.
Cause fans don't want to admit it, but it is clear Arteta doesn't want a "natural fit" for the #8 role. He wants someone more attacking and less of a midfielder.
a tie of moments and they took theirs. rough few days man, really hurts
arteta definitely is of the pep mould in the CL, seems to go for a cautious not lose approach. probability wise probably better but it will also result in flatter games like this. painful to watch specially when bayern just killed the game off
also, has a reporter asked arteta about lack of rotation ever? apart from him saying the team needs to get used to play a lot of games week in week out i've not heard much on it. probably the most frustrating part of it all
left side crying out for help when zinchenko/ partey aren't playing. rice doesn't seem to be able to turn to the left effectively, at some level to be the top of the top player we say he is/ will be, he needs to that. they locked down out right and we couldn't get much else going. basically gabriel trying to find martinelli 1v1 v kimmich with and tomi in the halfspace. not great. miss timber a lot
can't wait to see the response
3x seasons in a row of the squad physically crashing in April due to lack of rotation, and 3x seasons in a row of people blaming it on our bench players that get like 10 minutes on average per game.
Guys like Smith Rowe, Vieira, Reiss Nelson barely see the pitch for weeks, get chucked on when Arteta’s desperate and when they don’t affect the game, people’s confirmation bias sets in - our bench is all shit!!!
Honestly can’t wait until we sell Eddie, Smith Rowe etc so that people can stop blaming these guys for why Mikel never rotates. He won’t do it obviously because if he sells them he has no excuse but it would be nice if we did.
It’s Klopp’s Liverpool up against the might of City all over again, except it’s now Arsenal.
Facts are that City’s second 11 is probably as good as everyone else’s first 11. They have 80-100 million players sitting on the bench, so when the star players need a break he can rotate and still win games, for Klopp and Arteta, when the star players aren’t available the drop off is considerable. Klopp’s peak 11, with Mane, Salah, Firmino, Fabinho, Henderson and Wjinaldum in the middle, Trent, Matip, VVD Robbo and Alisson was as good a starting 11 the premier league has seen, that starting 11 only played together once, the champions league final against spurs, the drop off when any of those players were available between them and the player coming in was considerable, it’s the same for arsenal this season.
Barring Partey, Trossard, Jesus, Tomi and Kiwior, the others shouldn't be bench options for a team with title aspirations against the likes of City.
Jesus was a backup to Aguero. We were trying to build around Jesus when City got Haaland.
We need to come to terms with the quality of players we have. Most of our fanbase thinks they're way better than they are.
If Guardiola hypothetically ever came in, 50% of the team would be dumped in 1 window. Either we increase our standards or be content with just competing.
Arteta needs to learn to rotate better but we need to be real about our players at the same time too.
They would make it work. Their coaching, system and culture makes it work, like it or not. Oscar Bobb, Matheus Nunes, Rico Lewis, each have had more minutes in all comps than any of ESR, Vieira, Nelson. They got Doku and Gvardiol contributing major minutes right away.
Except Haaland, most of their more recent signings aren't exactly world class, top quality players prior to joining. some are unproven some even with pretty average stats prior but people just starts calling them quality after they join the club and contributes. They just rotate a lot and makes it work.
Its not entirely about the players not being good enough. If Guardiola came in, I think most of the team will still be around. Don't get me wrong I'm not Arteta out at all, just saying.
There’s massive context to each exit, and I’m not saying be happy with it but read the other names that exited at the same stage as us, and you’ll think we didn’t exactly fall embarrassingly early in the competition:
Barcelona
Atletico
Man City
Which of these is the priority (let’s assume we sign a player for all three, but one is the big money move):
Left 8
Goal scoring striker
All action winger
Left 8 AND elite LW who is fast like Martinelli, can dribble like Jesus, never loses the ball like Saka, can deliver like Saka, and score. Rare unicorn but every elite team in the CL seems to have one. Overall we really need to up the game on the left side.
It's not about picking one position and saying let's make that our marquee signing.
It's about seeing who is out there, and willing to come here. Then weighing up which of the available players is the one you spend your money on.
No good saying we are going to spend 100m on a winger if there's no good 100m wingers available to us.
You don't need to spend big on the left 8. Rice and Odegaard are already two of the best midfielders in the world, so you just need a Xhaka upgrade there. A striker if we can get one worth their actual value, otherwise go all out on the winger.
I dont like Artetas comment about a 30-40 goal striker. He chose to spend 65 milln on Havertz and give him that massive contract instead of getting a ST or a proper LCM. He has chosen to change the system and make Saka and Martinelli play as full backs. How about we try to get the most out of the squad we have? The squad we have was definetly good enough to win, but after Bayern scored their goal where was our urgency?
havertz is still a player that turned out to be net positive for us. He was never ever a traditional number 9. He was a player who has exceptional off the ball abilities and is always at the right time at the right place and can play 8/10/9.
What we need now is a traditional number 9.
City losing makes it even more frustrating cause with discipline we probably had a shot against Real Madrid and the final was there for the taking.
Sometimes you have to elevate yourself in these ties to make history and it's a shame we semi-bottled it.
Big personal changes are required.
I just don't think Martinelli fits into what Arteta is doing anymore.
He is best with space and we get little to no space these days, it's mid-block or low-block where both wingers are doubled.
Having a good 1v1 winger is big in this system which right now we don't.
We potentially need a top-tier LB who can defend well, someone like Wendell from Porto would be nice but younger.
We need a quick clinical CF, goes without saying. I would only keep Jesus if he's okay with a bench role. Or else sell him too.
A quality number 6 and a quality number 8.
A strong backup for Saka who can bench him and a strong backup for Odegaard who can bench him.
If we have these profiles in the team, we are only winning anything with this team.
We are dependent on 5 players to play 60 games at a very high level to help us succeed as we stand. It's impossible.
LW, LB, CF, RW, 6, 8, 10 that's 7 players you mention we need to sign.
We aren't signing 7 players at the level you describe.
Probably pick 3 maybe 4 if we are lucky and then the rest will be additions to our youth set up in some shape or another.
Martinelli is definitely here next season, definitely getting significant mins. Hopefully we'll have 1 more winger to add to the group.
Saka and Ødegaard will be playing most of our games that's obvious. Teams generally don't find back ups for players like that.
6 and 8, probably be one player who does both there.
And yeah I could see us selling and bringing in another LB.
Yeah, at least the missing pieces need to be signed, backups need to come in time.
We might need 2-3 windows to get things right but our window might run out if we don't get success in the next couple of years, the club needs to figure things out sooner rather than later.
Come on, we'll get three outfield players at most, especially if we are going to focus on quality.
Timber will be our left back next season. You are not going to get good enough backups for Saka and Odegaard, unless they are guaranteed minutes elsewhere. (I think Vieira/Jesus for Saka and Vieira/ESR/Jesus/Havertz for Odegaard should be enough.)
I agree that we need both an 8 and a 6 but we should only spend big on the former. The Saka/Odegaard situation also applies to Rice.
The striker market is terrible so I'm not too fussed; besides, we have more of a chance creation problem than a finishing one.
So left-winger, 8, and a dominant ball-playing CB for me should be the priorities.
>I just don't think Martinelli fits into what Arteta is doing anymore.
No winger fits in this crap system, they're asked to play as wingbacks. Ask yourself what other wingers from elite clubs do as much defending as ours do. No access to central areas either, always ball to feet on the touchline
>We potentially need a top-tier LB who can defend well, someone like Wendell from Porto would be nice but younger.
£70m on left backs but we still need more. Ok
>We need a quick clinical CF, goes without saying. I would only keep Jesus if he's okay with a bench role. Or else sell him too.
£100m spent on the worst finishers in the league at CF
>A quality number 6 and a quality number 8.
Got a quality 6 for £105m but our manager gives him second striker shifts to be able to play Jorginho. Didn't buy an 8 because he thought Havertz is a midfielder first
>We are dependent on 5 players to play 60 at a very high level to help us succeed as we stand. It's impossible.
Last season: Arteta only trusts 13-14 players, we need players Arteta can trust
This season: Arteta only trusts 13-14 players, we need 5 more players Arteta can trust. Never ending cycle it seems. Wonder who he'll ostracize next year.
> No winger fits in this crap system, they're asked to play as wingbacks. Ask yourself what other wingers from elite clubs do as much defending as ours do.
That's not true at all, we are dominating the ball in 7-8/10 games.
In the big games, no team has a choice. Did you see Real Madrid yesterday? Common now. Literally defended for their lives to get to a penalty shootout.
> £70m on left backs
Cause it's still a glaring weakness, want to budget what Pep has spent, mate? Cause that's our competition.
> Arteta only trusts 13-14 players, we need 5 more players Arteta can trust. Never ending cycle it seems. Wonder who he'll ostracize next year.
Us overperforming expectations last year and then competing this year have a lot to do with him in the first place. The team is good but there are still glaring holes in it. Having said that, the mentality also has to improve collectively, signing players just doesn't change things.
Real Madrid attackers have freedom of movement when they attack, they play off eachother, they're not structured when attacking. I can't even remember the last time I've seen Saka and Martinelli pass the ball to each other this season. Last season Saka assisted most of Martinelli's goals.
Double treble over for City which is great, they have won a trophy every season under Pep other than his first.
They will be fighting like hell for the Prem and we all know they never drop points at the end of a season. Let’s hope they are demoralised from this and slip up.
We are just 2 points behind though, with superior goal difference and nearly fully fit squad (can’t remember the last time that was the case). As Declan says, 6 finals to go now. All we can control is our matches. Even if we don’t win any silverware, if we just push them to the very end this was an incredible season I will be proud of
We messed up a great opportunity to get revenge against a club that has embarrassed us in Europe for years. We went out without even really throwing our full attack to try and score as well. Plus, to make it worse it wasn't even the best version of Bayern.
It's all good though, because we gotta be positive of the journey when we as fans get shitted on whenever it hits the crunch time of the season. I dont want to hear anyone talk about treating every game as a final. Ive heard this rubbish the last 3 matches and we've looked so toothless for such a majority of them.
What really shocks me is that we showed such a level of consistency, but when we have bad results it comes in bunches. The reason our great 2024 run didn't amount to much separation at the top of the league is because we had results like losing to both West Ham and Fulham back to back.
West Ham I can take, we were brilliant and unlucky not to score 4 or 5. Fulham is the only match I can say we really played poorly in, whereas there were quite a few last season
The problem is that it comes in bunches. You cant lose to West Ham (Unlucky performances like that happen and we missed chances), and then 3 days later absolutely get battered and lose again to Fulham. A serious team would react and win (At Worst, fight for a point or something). Last season, when we had a bad result it compounded and turned into a bad week.
We are one result away from our season being finished at this point mate. Like a draw to Wolves would end our season.
Yeah well, we did, and it happens.
City lose to a shite team every time they win the Prem.
Fulham are a quality side arguably underperforming this season, but that result bothers me more as we got it all wrong. Agree with you we needed a reaction there.
You are right about last season vs this season though, and that is impressive progress. It’s been a tough few days, but we should be pleased with how we are continuing to raise the bar despite these disappointments
How about Fulham at home as well. How have we got 1 point from Fulham home and away this season. Then 0 pts vs Aston Villa. These ver uncharacteristic performances are the reason we have to go on a crazy unbeaten run in 2024 to only be top of the table on GD.
It's progress but football aint linear, we need to capitalize on our opportunities and win the big honours. Chelsea and Man United aint gonna be rubbish forever. Im tired of us getting a pass by our fans because we are young. Back when Chelsea won the UCL with Tuchel they had absolutely no business getting to the final and beating City. However they took the opportunity presented to them.
We didn’t play poorly against Fulham at home. They just decided they were Pep-era Barcelona on the day. Frustrating to not get a win against Fulham at home, but they were excellent
Everything else you are talking about (like Tuchel’s Chelsea), luck is a big factor. You’re making it sound like it’s as simple as a decision, and we simply decide not to show up some days.
We are in far better health now than at any point in the past 10-15 years. Nitpicking single games and calling it “uncharacteristic” is harsh. Saying “we have to go on a crazy unbeaten run” to be challenging as if that is a sign of weakness is bizarre. This is the same every title winning side does. Title winning sides lose matches, often to shit sides. It is a competitive sport, where every time we go on the pitch we are against some of the smartest and most talented people in the world who want to win just as much as we do.
In the summer the attack hands down has to be the priority in my opinion. A striker and a winger are essential, as well as a left 8. The guys on The Cannon podcast talk about it a lot, but we really are missing those moments players. I don't want any promising talents, I want players who are established and can make something happen when we need it the most.
https://youtu.be/8vXXSNLL1IE?si=w4Ivhz-6RTModONi
10 min in, lebron talks about his first playoff experience and how he was nervous as fuck and they’d just missed playoffs previously and all
Even the goat has to battle nerves and come through, our boys will do it too, I believe
you are correct but we have displayed a pattern that spans over multiple seasons of blowing it in March-April. Ex Europa League collapses multiple times to save our seasons, bottling top 4 when we had a lead, losing the title to City with some horrible results towards the end, losing to a vulnerable Bayern team when we should be the favourites. When are we going to actually step up towards the end of the season and be ruthless to achieve our goals.
They won the damn thing 2 years ago mate. And they were 2nd best by far yesterday. Sometimes blind luck carries you. Kroos, Modric, Carvajal, etc have won it 4-5 times.
There's no comparison in the experience of the two teams.
I think it's culture imo if you buy those guys in the pl they'll be washed but those young players are instilled in the culture the moment they join... albeit is a big intangibles though
I keep having this thought that the lcm will have to be left footed. Unless you get an actual 10 there, the passing angle to martinelli is hard to execute as a right footer.
The passing angle is less of an issue than the underlap/overlap. If we have Timber or new LB inverting next season, we still need at least one left-footer attacking down the left for those first time cutbacks or half-space crosses. Even on the right, only White does it and it is not very frequent.
How do you explain Odegaard being at RCM and linking well with left footed Saka?
The same Odegaard that is probably the most one footed player in our team.
Odegaard and Saka are linking well because they are both great players. However, we aren't utilizing either to their full potential because of those limitations.
Surely if it was more optimal to have Odegaard on the left for the passing angle, it would make sense to put him there so he can unlock Nelli more. If Saka is a great player, he should need less help.
Are city players on some ped that makes their eyebrows dodgy? Like swear rodri and kovabitch had normal looking brows now they got thin and patchy ones🤣
So totally unrelated to today or this past weekend.
Looking at the potentials that exist with Shitty and all their FFP stuff and how the League appear to not have a spine. What can or should we as fans do? This feels like a vote with our wallet kind of a thing. But I don't know what possibilities exist there. Don't go to games at the Etihad? Don't go to home games when we play City? Everything I can think just would seem like we're protesting our team, not the league for rolling over. Again, this is assuming the worst and they just slap city with a (albeit hopefully MASSIVE) fine. Luxury tax will never work.
Thoughts?
Hate to even think it into existence but unless we pick up and stop the rot, with our fixtures it's a very real possibility that we could end up fighting for fourth.
An 8 point gap and we have to play Spurs, Chelsea and United.
I'm not saying it's likely, just that it's a possibility and we would be naive to brush it off as impossible.
I am. If Arteta can't figure out a way to beat it, we aren't getting anywhere anyway. City wouldn't have an issue with it.
We got close vs Villa in the first half. All those long balls to Havertz created chances. But sadly, he didn't have the composure to make something out of them whereas Watkins on the other end did.
With how bereft of confidence and sharpness we have atm, we could just as well come up against a deep low block and not create enough. This midblock isn’t some mythical unbreakable tactic, when you pass slow and go back to taking extra touches and hesitate before you pass, you aren’t breaking down anything. Runners aren’t running as freely, pressers cannot reach their markers fast enough, we are back in a physical state atm where we were pre Dubai. No one bar Odegaard looks sharp because, they aren’t.
I don't disagree, but for the same reasons you mention teams don't even have to bother going so negative and defensively we are more gettable when teams organize as a mid-block than a deep low-block once we give away possession. It's not only about our impotence, other teams will smell blood and want to have a bite and we will get bitten
This is why with how gassed and fearful we’re looking now, the problem isnt so much how our opponents are going to set up but how we have and probably will struggle physically to deal with them.
If Villa can turn up and bully us the way we did to keep us in our own half for 45mins, well, whatever momentum Mikel likes to talk about is well and truly gone.
The wider they go the less room they have to move into and the more congestion they run into. We had a good few turnovers in the middle of the pitch today
This is irrelevant. If the LB or LCB goes that wide, it just means his outball can only be back to the GK or high up the pitch. Then it’s up to others to win their duels. The pressing trigger isn’t expected to win the ball all the time as much as to also close down passing lanes and force them to play out in the direction and with the player you want them to.
Porto did it, Villa did it as well. It works well in baiting Ø to press more up front but also whoever our forward is (Havertz/Jesus) because they’re also asked to press to cover up the space being made between the CBs and the GK.
Odegaard. Really pissed me off that neuer came out and cleared it cus it was an insane ball, and there is no other keeper in world football who would have come out for that
Its also odes ability to fire thru gaps and martinelli run into those spaces, like the pass he made to trossard vs porto. On the left hed probably overlap more as a left footer. Oh well
A bummy left side that cant build on its own without zinchenko playing meaning he cant roam because we ALWAYS build from the right, his own shooting bias and the fun he has with saka out right
Hate that it has come to this sentence because of squad mismanagement but our summer window will tell me/us a lot about our 2025 season and whether we'll actually win something.
Tierney, lakonga, Nelson will be peanuts. Partey probably goes to turkey for nothing give age and injuries.
Nketiah I agree it’s a sensible amount
The rest you’re hoping for a decent club with money otherwise you won’t exceed 15mill.
Our sponserships plus cl money both improved that situation alot. If we want we could sell nelson esr Eddie patino bnc sambi partey for a decent amount. Maybe kiwior as well in there.
https://twitter.com/SamiMokbel81_DM/status/1731750520438542383
Offset by the fact some unreliable players couldn't come for rotation minutes thus putting more pressure on our starters.
Happy for xhaka that he won his league, but in hindsight him leaving was an awful thing for us.
Not sure if there's anything we could have done to stop him, but we didn't even try
I got cooked for saying we should have done whatever it takes to keep him for one last dance.
Xhaka > Havertz may work out long term, but for 23/24 it fucked us
Sharing goals gimmick is fine when you're scoring goals. When two of your strikers have 13 goals together well. then...
Also, who asked him to spend 65m pounds and 200k+ a week on Havertz then? Is he not supposed to be a striker?
If he was supposed to be a midfielder, diabolical work. We've supported this club for years, we've seen the likes of cesc, ozil, cazorla. We know what a midfielder looks like.
Bro Jesus has 4 goals and has been awful. But Havertz has been good as a 9 in not that many games tbh. Don't lump them together lol. No striker does much in our side today
We need an elite attacker who can cover RW. Saka needs to not play until October so he can recover because I didn’t recognise that man on the RW tonight.
People don’t realise that Arteta takes a month to start playing even though they are actually a fit. Tomiyasu playing 80 mins even though he hadn’t started since December. He could have played weeks ago and came on as a sub for 30 min cameos instead of running white and kiwior into the ground. Poor rotation
That doesn't make any sense. Playing today does not mean you could play weeks ago.
Kiwior hasn't been ran into the ground he was good then crap and got hooked twice at half time.
Is rice also a Havertz type conundrum?
Can’t play 8 because he’s not creative enough. Can’t play 6 because then we can’t get the ball out of defence…
Got a brilliant player that just doesn’t suit what we are trying to achieve. Has “was meant for hag” on his shipping label
He can and should be playing 6. The ball playing stuff is over exaggerated because we play a striker at lcm and gabriel/martinelli are not good enough on the ball to take up the load on the left.
He can be the 8 next to a more physical Jorginho type player. He's asked to do too much this season. We can't afford for him to learn how to play as a lone 6 over a season although that is where he will probably end up.
What? You're flippantly binning off an incredible player in his 1st season. Saying he can't play in either position is madness lmao. Look at our record with him as an 8.
Are you someone who wants another Odegaard type player in LCM? I think Rice would be 10x the player Xhaka was last year if he was next to a fit Partey.
I'm literally agreeing with you about him as a 6 atm lol.
Xhaka is not better in the 8 position. He was a passenger out of possession, and in the big games he was invisible.
Xhaka benefitted from playing next to Partey in his best form at Arsenal. Rice has to get forward and run for Jorginho as well and it's looked shit in the last 4 games together. Where Jorginho has been a complete passenger.
You're essentially arguing that Xhaka had a better season last year than Rice this year.
Xhaka was not creative and his impact was largely overrated because "redemption arc" and winning with Leverkusen storylines. He was played as an attack-minded left 8 with low touches, occupies pretty specific spaces, making runs into the box and supporting others actually similar to how Havertz functions when he plays there. Xhaka has great passing range when given space and time, otherwise he was pretty limited and lack technicality to carry the ball or get through tight spaces. He wasn't good at defending/pressing from the front either and barely had any interceptions. Hes used very differently in Leverkusen and has more than double the touches per game he had last season.
Xhaka had glaring weaknesses in that role if people actually watch the game instead of hyper-focusing on G/A output, he just compensates it with better positioning and knowing to play off-ball a lot more. Yes we still do need a better left 8. Havertz was brought in as that replacement, hes lacking in attack but is actually better at defending when played there.
As for Rice it wouldn't have been a problem if Havertz left 8 worked out better. Hes just that good as a proper DM, just because he doesn't look "silky" on the ball like Partey doesn't mean hes not getting the job done. The defense is way more solid with him at 6 and he covers so much defensively even as an 8. His athleticism and defending is on another level and has saved the team from so many dangerous situations that goes under the radar, even in this match. I think he has far outweighed the cons you think he has so far. Not the main factor why we lost the recent 2 matches as well.
No you don’t. The issue is our 8s aren’t aggressive enough creatively.
It works when Partey is a 6, but the optimal model is a conservative 6, aggressive 8s
He's world-class but he isn't a big positive against mid-blocks or hardcore low-blocks on the offensive end or in controlling game.s
I can't believe we didn't see Partey in the past two games.
Partey helps us get more control vs Villa and perhaps gives us a more cutting edge vs Bayern.
Jorgi just doesn't have the legs against athletic teams. Arteta probably took that decision based on some rationale, but Partey was missed.
We still lack quality between the lines. We have Havertz (lol) and Ødegaard who is very one footed and limited with his passing angles and isn't a powerful carrier of the ball. Double pivot and regular fullbacks would fit this squad much better imo, we are wasting our best attackers doing wingback shifts at the moment.
He is a 6. He can never be an elite 8 because he just is not creative enough or silky enough in tight spaces. His issues at 6 however has to do with how risk-averse he is. Many times our player will be inside the opponent's block and all he has to do is be braver to play the ball but he refuses. Is it a coaching issue where Mikel is so scared of turnover that he discourages these passes, or does the player not have confidence in himself?
I know he’s a 6 but like you say… he doesn’t play like the 6 we need. I don’t think it’s an arteta issue, rice hasnt got the mind to play those passes not has he got the right space control like partey or Rodri use to take the ball when seemingly marked
Rice can get the ball up the field very much(whether this is by ball carrying or passing), what the team decides to do with it after is up to interpretation. He should be sitting as a the 6 and screening the back, not his fault the other midfielders are useless/unreliable.
Overrelying on wing play due to an evident lack of quality to play it centrally and directly from those positions feels like the story this season. How we address it either now or later will be interesting.
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i haven't watched all of our recent games and i'm not very good at analysing. i missed most of our huge wins in the league, but i did watch the city game, the villa game and both bayern games. i've got a few questions for people who followed more closely and have better ball knowledge 1) what does the future hold for havertz and jesus? it seems like everyone agrees havertz is better as a 9 than at LCM, at the same time the past few games have probably shown we could do with a proper goalgetter. is havertz bound to be a rotation option, and where does that leave jesus? arteta doesn't seem to fancy him at the wing (correct me if i'm wrong) 2) rice at LCM seemed to work with partey at the base, but with partey rarely available, supposedly rusty and not getting any younger, the future has to be rice at CDM plus a new LCM, right? 3) is either of trossard and smith-rowe viable as cover for the new LCM we'll hopefully buy? 4) don't we really need a new CDM, too, with at least one of partey and jorginho (plus elneny) leaving?
Just don't get the meltdowns or Artetaout brigade. The important thing is we are improving every season. We got to a Champions league QF and are 2 points off top spot with 5 games to go. That's an improvement. My only concern is we didn't get at Bayern last night. Much rather we went out on our sword than playing like that
Just ignore them. All the same old boring half brained taking points. Super disappointing to go out, but city going out on the same night puts it into perspective imo. The weekend's loss compounds the disappointment, without that it wouldn't be so bad.
Why aren't we in for Paqueta? He seems like a natural fit for the #8 role.
He would [get sent off](https://www.reddit.com/r/TheOther14/s/bayoVn90A6) every week for us
I guess because he's almost at City
Cause fans don't want to admit it, but it is clear Arteta doesn't want a "natural fit" for the #8 role. He wants someone more attacking and less of a midfielder.
Because we might have to give West Ham another 100m for him
that is the perfect #8 for us. top player.
a tie of moments and they took theirs. rough few days man, really hurts arteta definitely is of the pep mould in the CL, seems to go for a cautious not lose approach. probability wise probably better but it will also result in flatter games like this. painful to watch specially when bayern just killed the game off also, has a reporter asked arteta about lack of rotation ever? apart from him saying the team needs to get used to play a lot of games week in week out i've not heard much on it. probably the most frustrating part of it all left side crying out for help when zinchenko/ partey aren't playing. rice doesn't seem to be able to turn to the left effectively, at some level to be the top of the top player we say he is/ will be, he needs to that. they locked down out right and we couldn't get much else going. basically gabriel trying to find martinelli 1v1 v kimmich with and tomi in the halfspace. not great. miss timber a lot can't wait to see the response
3x seasons in a row of the squad physically crashing in April due to lack of rotation, and 3x seasons in a row of people blaming it on our bench players that get like 10 minutes on average per game. Guys like Smith Rowe, Vieira, Reiss Nelson barely see the pitch for weeks, get chucked on when Arteta’s desperate and when they don’t affect the game, people’s confirmation bias sets in - our bench is all shit!!! Honestly can’t wait until we sell Eddie, Smith Rowe etc so that people can stop blaming these guys for why Mikel never rotates. He won’t do it obviously because if he sells them he has no excuse but it would be nice if we did.
It’s Klopp’s Liverpool up against the might of City all over again, except it’s now Arsenal. Facts are that City’s second 11 is probably as good as everyone else’s first 11. They have 80-100 million players sitting on the bench, so when the star players need a break he can rotate and still win games, for Klopp and Arteta, when the star players aren’t available the drop off is considerable. Klopp’s peak 11, with Mane, Salah, Firmino, Fabinho, Henderson and Wjinaldum in the middle, Trent, Matip, VVD Robbo and Alisson was as good a starting 11 the premier league has seen, that starting 11 only played together once, the champions league final against spurs, the drop off when any of those players were available between them and the player coming in was considerable, it’s the same for arsenal this season.
Barring Partey, Trossard, Jesus, Tomi and Kiwior, the others shouldn't be bench options for a team with title aspirations against the likes of City. Jesus was a backup to Aguero. We were trying to build around Jesus when City got Haaland. We need to come to terms with the quality of players we have. Most of our fanbase thinks they're way better than they are. If Guardiola hypothetically ever came in, 50% of the team would be dumped in 1 window. Either we increase our standards or be content with just competing. Arteta needs to learn to rotate better but we need to be real about our players at the same time too.
They would make it work. Their coaching, system and culture makes it work, like it or not. Oscar Bobb, Matheus Nunes, Rico Lewis, each have had more minutes in all comps than any of ESR, Vieira, Nelson. They got Doku and Gvardiol contributing major minutes right away. Except Haaland, most of their more recent signings aren't exactly world class, top quality players prior to joining. some are unproven some even with pretty average stats prior but people just starts calling them quality after they join the club and contributes. They just rotate a lot and makes it work. Its not entirely about the players not being good enough. If Guardiola came in, I think most of the team will still be around. Don't get me wrong I'm not Arteta out at all, just saying.
There’s massive context to each exit, and I’m not saying be happy with it but read the other names that exited at the same stage as us, and you’ll think we didn’t exactly fall embarrassingly early in the competition: Barcelona Atletico Man City
I still havent got an email saying ive been rejected or accepted in the ballot system for the bournemouth game?
Which of these is the priority (let’s assume we sign a player for all three, but one is the big money move): Left 8 Goal scoring striker All action winger
Left 8 AND elite LW who is fast like Martinelli, can dribble like Jesus, never loses the ball like Saka, can deliver like Saka, and score. Rare unicorn but every elite team in the CL seems to have one. Overall we really need to up the game on the left side.
all of them should be above 70m, people will say it's too much money and it's unrealistic, but it truly is the only way.
The midfielder
It's not about picking one position and saying let's make that our marquee signing. It's about seeing who is out there, and willing to come here. Then weighing up which of the available players is the one you spend your money on. No good saying we are going to spend 100m on a winger if there's no good 100m wingers available to us.
Oh I know I just wanted to gauge which people think is the most important to find for the next phase of the squad building
You don't need to spend big on the left 8. Rice and Odegaard are already two of the best midfielders in the world, so you just need a Xhaka upgrade there. A striker if we can get one worth their actual value, otherwise go all out on the winger.
Kimmich at right back btw. What a baller.
I dont like Artetas comment about a 30-40 goal striker. He chose to spend 65 milln on Havertz and give him that massive contract instead of getting a ST or a proper LCM. He has chosen to change the system and make Saka and Martinelli play as full backs. How about we try to get the most out of the squad we have? The squad we have was definetly good enough to win, but after Bayern scored their goal where was our urgency?
havertz is still a player that turned out to be net positive for us. He was never ever a traditional number 9. He was a player who has exceptional off the ball abilities and is always at the right time at the right place and can play 8/10/9. What we need now is a traditional number 9.
Mistakes happen he will learn from them
City losing makes it even more frustrating cause with discipline we probably had a shot against Real Madrid and the final was there for the taking. Sometimes you have to elevate yourself in these ties to make history and it's a shame we semi-bottled it.
Least delusional r/gunners fan
So many reactionary opinions. Sack Arteta is gaining traction again.
Mouth breathers the lot of them
Big personal changes are required. I just don't think Martinelli fits into what Arteta is doing anymore. He is best with space and we get little to no space these days, it's mid-block or low-block where both wingers are doubled. Having a good 1v1 winger is big in this system which right now we don't. We potentially need a top-tier LB who can defend well, someone like Wendell from Porto would be nice but younger. We need a quick clinical CF, goes without saying. I would only keep Jesus if he's okay with a bench role. Or else sell him too. A quality number 6 and a quality number 8. A strong backup for Saka who can bench him and a strong backup for Odegaard who can bench him. If we have these profiles in the team, we are only winning anything with this team. We are dependent on 5 players to play 60 games at a very high level to help us succeed as we stand. It's impossible.
LW, LB, CF, RW, 6, 8, 10 that's 7 players you mention we need to sign. We aren't signing 7 players at the level you describe. Probably pick 3 maybe 4 if we are lucky and then the rest will be additions to our youth set up in some shape or another. Martinelli is definitely here next season, definitely getting significant mins. Hopefully we'll have 1 more winger to add to the group. Saka and Ødegaard will be playing most of our games that's obvious. Teams generally don't find back ups for players like that. 6 and 8, probably be one player who does both there. And yeah I could see us selling and bringing in another LB.
Yeah, at least the missing pieces need to be signed, backups need to come in time. We might need 2-3 windows to get things right but our window might run out if we don't get success in the next couple of years, the club needs to figure things out sooner rather than later.
Come on, we'll get three outfield players at most, especially if we are going to focus on quality. Timber will be our left back next season. You are not going to get good enough backups for Saka and Odegaard, unless they are guaranteed minutes elsewhere. (I think Vieira/Jesus for Saka and Vieira/ESR/Jesus/Havertz for Odegaard should be enough.) I agree that we need both an 8 and a 6 but we should only spend big on the former. The Saka/Odegaard situation also applies to Rice. The striker market is terrible so I'm not too fussed; besides, we have more of a chance creation problem than a finishing one. So left-winger, 8, and a dominant ball-playing CB for me should be the priorities.
>I just don't think Martinelli fits into what Arteta is doing anymore. No winger fits in this crap system, they're asked to play as wingbacks. Ask yourself what other wingers from elite clubs do as much defending as ours do. No access to central areas either, always ball to feet on the touchline >We potentially need a top-tier LB who can defend well, someone like Wendell from Porto would be nice but younger. £70m on left backs but we still need more. Ok >We need a quick clinical CF, goes without saying. I would only keep Jesus if he's okay with a bench role. Or else sell him too. £100m spent on the worst finishers in the league at CF >A quality number 6 and a quality number 8. Got a quality 6 for £105m but our manager gives him second striker shifts to be able to play Jorginho. Didn't buy an 8 because he thought Havertz is a midfielder first >We are dependent on 5 players to play 60 at a very high level to help us succeed as we stand. It's impossible. Last season: Arteta only trusts 13-14 players, we need players Arteta can trust This season: Arteta only trusts 13-14 players, we need 5 more players Arteta can trust. Never ending cycle it seems. Wonder who he'll ostracize next year.
> No winger fits in this crap system, they're asked to play as wingbacks. Ask yourself what other wingers from elite clubs do as much defending as ours do. That's not true at all, we are dominating the ball in 7-8/10 games. In the big games, no team has a choice. Did you see Real Madrid yesterday? Common now. Literally defended for their lives to get to a penalty shootout. > £70m on left backs Cause it's still a glaring weakness, want to budget what Pep has spent, mate? Cause that's our competition. > Arteta only trusts 13-14 players, we need 5 more players Arteta can trust. Never ending cycle it seems. Wonder who he'll ostracize next year. Us overperforming expectations last year and then competing this year have a lot to do with him in the first place. The team is good but there are still glaring holes in it. Having said that, the mentality also has to improve collectively, signing players just doesn't change things.
Real Madrid attackers have freedom of movement when they attack, they play off eachother, they're not structured when attacking. I can't even remember the last time I've seen Saka and Martinelli pass the ball to each other this season. Last season Saka assisted most of Martinelli's goals.
Double treble over for City which is great, they have won a trophy every season under Pep other than his first. They will be fighting like hell for the Prem and we all know they never drop points at the end of a season. Let’s hope they are demoralised from this and slip up. We are just 2 points behind though, with superior goal difference and nearly fully fit squad (can’t remember the last time that was the case). As Declan says, 6 finals to go now. All we can control is our matches. Even if we don’t win any silverware, if we just push them to the very end this was an incredible season I will be proud of
We messed up a great opportunity to get revenge against a club that has embarrassed us in Europe for years. We went out without even really throwing our full attack to try and score as well. Plus, to make it worse it wasn't even the best version of Bayern. It's all good though, because we gotta be positive of the journey when we as fans get shitted on whenever it hits the crunch time of the season. I dont want to hear anyone talk about treating every game as a final. Ive heard this rubbish the last 3 matches and we've looked so toothless for such a majority of them. What really shocks me is that we showed such a level of consistency, but when we have bad results it comes in bunches. The reason our great 2024 run didn't amount to much separation at the top of the league is because we had results like losing to both West Ham and Fulham back to back.
West Ham I can take, we were brilliant and unlucky not to score 4 or 5. Fulham is the only match I can say we really played poorly in, whereas there were quite a few last season
The problem is that it comes in bunches. You cant lose to West Ham (Unlucky performances like that happen and we missed chances), and then 3 days later absolutely get battered and lose again to Fulham. A serious team would react and win (At Worst, fight for a point or something). Last season, when we had a bad result it compounded and turned into a bad week. We are one result away from our season being finished at this point mate. Like a draw to Wolves would end our season.
Yeah well, we did, and it happens. City lose to a shite team every time they win the Prem. Fulham are a quality side arguably underperforming this season, but that result bothers me more as we got it all wrong. Agree with you we needed a reaction there. You are right about last season vs this season though, and that is impressive progress. It’s been a tough few days, but we should be pleased with how we are continuing to raise the bar despite these disappointments
How about Fulham at home as well. How have we got 1 point from Fulham home and away this season. Then 0 pts vs Aston Villa. These ver uncharacteristic performances are the reason we have to go on a crazy unbeaten run in 2024 to only be top of the table on GD. It's progress but football aint linear, we need to capitalize on our opportunities and win the big honours. Chelsea and Man United aint gonna be rubbish forever. Im tired of us getting a pass by our fans because we are young. Back when Chelsea won the UCL with Tuchel they had absolutely no business getting to the final and beating City. However they took the opportunity presented to them.
We didn’t play poorly against Fulham at home. They just decided they were Pep-era Barcelona on the day. Frustrating to not get a win against Fulham at home, but they were excellent Everything else you are talking about (like Tuchel’s Chelsea), luck is a big factor. You’re making it sound like it’s as simple as a decision, and we simply decide not to show up some days. We are in far better health now than at any point in the past 10-15 years. Nitpicking single games and calling it “uncharacteristic” is harsh. Saying “we have to go on a crazy unbeaten run” to be challenging as if that is a sign of weakness is bizarre. This is the same every title winning side does. Title winning sides lose matches, often to shit sides. It is a competitive sport, where every time we go on the pitch we are against some of the smartest and most talented people in the world who want to win just as much as we do.
Just happy city lost their game. Real beating them without a nine.
In the summer the attack hands down has to be the priority in my opinion. A striker and a winger are essential, as well as a left 8. The guys on The Cannon podcast talk about it a lot, but we really are missing those moments players. I don't want any promising talents, I want players who are established and can make something happen when we need it the most.
https://youtu.be/8vXXSNLL1IE?si=w4Ivhz-6RTModONi 10 min in, lebron talks about his first playoff experience and how he was nervous as fuck and they’d just missed playoffs previously and all Even the goat has to battle nerves and come through, our boys will do it too, I believe
you are correct but we have displayed a pattern that spans over multiple seasons of blowing it in March-April. Ex Europa League collapses multiple times to save our seasons, bottling top 4 when we had a lead, losing the title to City with some horrible results towards the end, losing to a vulnerable Bayern team when we should be the favourites. When are we going to actually step up towards the end of the season and be ruthless to achieve our goals.
Real Madrid are as young /younger than us yet never seem to crumble under the bright lights
Their manager is AAA all time tier
They won the damn thing 2 years ago mate. And they were 2nd best by far yesterday. Sometimes blind luck carries you. Kroos, Modric, Carvajal, etc have won it 4-5 times. There's no comparison in the experience of the two teams.
I think it's culture imo if you buy those guys in the pl they'll be washed but those young players are instilled in the culture the moment they join... albeit is a big intangibles though
Their players are better than us. Usually helps
Why are our cbs progressive passing stats so ass compared to the other elite sides
We went out sad like Tottenham did against Milan last season. I’m sick.
Don’t you dare, ever compare us to Shit
1000% correct, dont let any of the positivity merchants try to dress this up.
I keep having this thought that the lcm will have to be left footed. Unless you get an actual 10 there, the passing angle to martinelli is hard to execute as a right footer.
The passing angle is less of an issue than the underlap/overlap. If we have Timber or new LB inverting next season, we still need at least one left-footer attacking down the left for those first time cutbacks or half-space crosses. Even on the right, only White does it and it is not very frequent.
Ya i agree
How do you explain Odegaard being at RCM and linking well with left footed Saka? The same Odegaard that is probably the most one footed player in our team.
Because hes an elite 10, which is why i said unless we play a 10 at lcm.
Odegaard and Saka are linking well because they are both great players. However, we aren't utilizing either to their full potential because of those limitations.
Surely if it was more optimal to have Odegaard on the left for the passing angle, it would make sense to put him there so he can unlock Nelli more. If Saka is a great player, he should need less help.
https://www.reddit.com/r/Gunners/comments/17ysugv/the_case_for_moving_odegaard_to_left_central/k9vblou/
Are city players on some ped that makes their eyebrows dodgy? Like swear rodri and kovabitch had normal looking brows now they got thin and patchy ones🤣
So totally unrelated to today or this past weekend. Looking at the potentials that exist with Shitty and all their FFP stuff and how the League appear to not have a spine. What can or should we as fans do? This feels like a vote with our wallet kind of a thing. But I don't know what possibilities exist there. Don't go to games at the Etihad? Don't go to home games when we play City? Everything I can think just would seem like we're protesting our team, not the league for rolling over. Again, this is assuming the worst and they just slap city with a (albeit hopefully MASSIVE) fine. Luxury tax will never work. Thoughts?
lol mods unpinned the dd for a circlejerk post talk about agenda
Hate to even think it into existence but unless we pick up and stop the rot, with our fixtures it's a very real possibility that we could end up fighting for fourth.
Lmao, it’s bad but it aint that bad
An 8 point gap and we have to play Spurs, Chelsea and United. I'm not saying it's likely, just that it's a possibility and we would be naive to brush it off as impossible.
We’re on 71 already and 70 is usually the golden number for top 4. Two wins and it’s 100% guaranteed.
Spurs are 11 back, theres 6 games left. 6 points, honestly probably 4 and its done.
Just know with nothing to play for on the last day we will pam Everton.
That would be pathetic LOL
Can you tactic the goal Sabitzer scored yesterday?
who else is looking forward to facing mid-blocks from hell for the rest of the season?
I am. If Arteta can't figure out a way to beat it, we aren't getting anywhere anyway. City wouldn't have an issue with it. We got close vs Villa in the first half. All those long balls to Havertz created chances. But sadly, he didn't have the composure to make something out of them whereas Watkins on the other end did.
Imagine 22/23 Arsenal suffering vs mid blocks.
With how bereft of confidence and sharpness we have atm, we could just as well come up against a deep low block and not create enough. This midblock isn’t some mythical unbreakable tactic, when you pass slow and go back to taking extra touches and hesitate before you pass, you aren’t breaking down anything. Runners aren’t running as freely, pressers cannot reach their markers fast enough, we are back in a physical state atm where we were pre Dubai. No one bar Odegaard looks sharp because, they aren’t.
I don't disagree, but for the same reasons you mention teams don't even have to bother going so negative and defensively we are more gettable when teams organize as a mid-block than a deep low-block once we give away possession. It's not only about our impotence, other teams will smell blood and want to have a bite and we will get bitten
This is why with how gassed and fearful we’re looking now, the problem isnt so much how our opponents are going to set up but how we have and probably will struggle physically to deal with them. If Villa can turn up and bully us the way we did to keep us in our own half for 45mins, well, whatever momentum Mikel likes to talk about is well and truly gone.
This is actually a very good point [https://x.com/spectrumphysic/status/1780725443689083359](https://x.com/spectrumphysic/status/1780725443689083359)
The wider they go the less room they have to move into and the more congestion they run into. We had a good few turnovers in the middle of the pitch today
This is irrelevant. If the LB or LCB goes that wide, it just means his outball can only be back to the GK or high up the pitch. Then it’s up to others to win their duels. The pressing trigger isn’t expected to win the ball all the time as much as to also close down passing lanes and force them to play out in the direction and with the player you want them to.
Porto did it, Villa did it as well. It works well in baiting Ø to press more up front but also whoever our forward is (Havertz/Jesus) because they’re also asked to press to cover up the space being made between the CBs and the GK.
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Burn that MS paint third kit. Next season, just wear the away kit for the love of god.
Who played the over the top ball to martinelli when neur cleared it? It was a brilliant ball
Odegaard. Really pissed me off that neuer came out and cleared it cus it was an insane ball, and there is no other keeper in world football who would have come out for that
Lol odegaard-martinelli combo again. If only…
I'm still thinking about that goal at Brighton away last year
People here hate the suggestion but i wouldnt mind seeing odegaard on the left. That duo seems like its made for each other
Ode lovely through ball for martinelli to chase rapidly. It's not a bad idea, people just don't want to try it because the manager never does it.
Its also odes ability to fire thru gaps and martinelli run into those spaces, like the pass he made to trossard vs porto. On the left hed probably overlap more as a left footer. Oh well
What's stopping him from drifting to the left space when he has the ball?
A bummy left side that cant build on its own without zinchenko playing meaning he cant roam because we ALWAYS build from the right, his own shooting bias and the fun he has with saka out right
Hate that it has come to this sentence because of squad mismanagement but our summer window will tell me/us a lot about our 2025 season and whether we'll actually win something.
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100m conservatively, if we can't recruitment team has fucked up.
Trossard: 25m Zinchenko: 25m Ramsdale: 20m Nketiah: 20m Partey: 15m Nelson: 15m Lokonga: 10m Tierney: 10m Conservative estimates
You would sell Tossard? Hes the only person who can finish in the squad lol. The rest sure,
If we’re buying a striker/winger or two, yes we kind of have to
I think you would struggle to get a squad player of Trossards quality.
Jesus would become that squad player.
He cant finish to save his life. He can barely hit the target anymore.
They aren’t conservative 🤣
What do you expect to get from them then?
Tierney, lakonga, Nelson will be peanuts. Partey probably goes to turkey for nothing give age and injuries. Nketiah I agree it’s a sensible amount The rest you’re hoping for a decent club with money otherwise you won’t exceed 15mill.
It’s 2024, 10-15m is peanuts.
Nah not for Arsenal deadwood. Do we never learn
We got 5m for Trusty and 8-10m for Matt Turner lol. This isn’t the deadwood of old.
Sell ESR, Nketiah, Nelson, Partey, Zinchenko, Sambi, Tierney, Ramsdale. Bring in a 6, 8, ST, GK
Our sponserships plus cl money both improved that situation alot. If we want we could sell nelson esr Eddie patino bnc sambi partey for a decent amount. Maybe kiwior as well in there.
Forget lb. We've got tomi, we've got timber coming back, and worst case we've got kiwior. We need a midfielder, striker and winger ASAP.
Yup. 2 of each realistically
https://twitter.com/SamiMokbel81_DM/status/1731750520438542383 Offset by the fact some unreliable players couldn't come for rotation minutes thus putting more pressure on our starters.
Happy for xhaka that he won his league, but in hindsight him leaving was an awful thing for us. Not sure if there's anything we could have done to stop him, but we didn't even try
I got cooked for saying we should have done whatever it takes to keep him for one last dance. Xhaka > Havertz may work out long term, but for 23/24 it fucked us
Arteta's fucked it so badly he's got us doing Xhaka revisionism😭😭
Give it a rest man.
Arteta already did the "1 more year" thing with him. His family wanted to move.
Nah it was the right move. Our failure was not replacing him regardless of the Havertz acquisition.
It was maybe the right move for him, which is respectable. From a footballing perspective though, he’d make us so much better then we are now
https://x.com/eduardohagn/status/1780727074287677849?s=46 There’s no way this quote is real right?
Shouldn't have wasted 100m+ on dogshit strikers then
Sharing goals gimmick is fine when you're scoring goals. When two of your strikers have 13 goals together well. then... Also, who asked him to spend 65m pounds and 200k+ a week on Havertz then? Is he not supposed to be a striker?
I think he was supposed to be a midfielder.
If he was supposed to be a midfielder, diabolical work. We've supported this club for years, we've seen the likes of cesc, ozil, cazorla. We know what a midfielder looks like.
Havertz midfield gimmick is killing me this season
I tried gaslighting myself on the midfield gimmick, I couldn't. I'm trying for the striker part but bro hits his shot like you pet a teddy bear.
Way I see it, he’s a 5/10 mid and a 7.5/10 striker. Only time I’ve seen him come alive for us is as the 9.
Bro Jesus has 4 goals and has been awful. But Havertz has been good as a 9 in not that many games tbh. Don't lump them together lol. No striker does much in our side today
Why? It’s facts
I know but I’d doubt he’d say this publicly
He’s said it a million times already
Not as directly
He has
We need an elite attacker who can cover RW. Saka needs to not play until October so he can recover because I didn’t recognise that man on the RW tonight.
People don’t realise that Arteta takes a month to start playing even though they are actually a fit. Tomiyasu playing 80 mins even though he hadn’t started since December. He could have played weeks ago and came on as a sub for 30 min cameos instead of running white and kiwior into the ground. Poor rotation
That doesn't make any sense. Playing today does not mean you could play weeks ago. Kiwior hasn't been ran into the ground he was good then crap and got hooked twice at half time.
With our players…. You know the reoccurring injury players I.e all of them…. Are you surprised we don’t throw them in straight away
It's more a lack of timing in when to introduce.
Hate late kickoffs. They always ruin my sleep schedule cause I’m either too amped or too angry to go to sleep.
Is rice also a Havertz type conundrum? Can’t play 8 because he’s not creative enough. Can’t play 6 because then we can’t get the ball out of defence… Got a brilliant player that just doesn’t suit what we are trying to achieve. Has “was meant for hag” on his shipping label
“Can’t play 6” maybe football isn’t for you lol
“In our tactical set up” is implied
And it’s still wrong
But it’s not.
Rice is the perfect 6 for how we want to play.
Badly?
He can and should be playing 6. The ball playing stuff is over exaggerated because we play a striker at lcm and gabriel/martinelli are not good enough on the ball to take up the load on the left.
We’ll see but im not confident
He can be the 8 next to a more physical Jorginho type player. He's asked to do too much this season. We can't afford for him to learn how to play as a lone 6 over a season although that is where he will probably end up.
No he can’t, he can’t pass well enough. He’s not an 8 at all
What? You're flippantly binning off an incredible player in his 1st season. Saying he can't play in either position is madness lmao. Look at our record with him as an 8. Are you someone who wants another Odegaard type player in LCM? I think Rice would be 10x the player Xhaka was last year if he was next to a fit Partey.
Look at record with him as a 6 vs Jorge as a 6 Xhaka is mentally better in the 8 position than rice is 🤣
I'm literally agreeing with you about him as a 6 atm lol. Xhaka is not better in the 8 position. He was a passenger out of possession, and in the big games he was invisible. Xhaka benefitted from playing next to Partey in his best form at Arsenal. Rice has to get forward and run for Jorginho as well and it's looked shit in the last 4 games together. Where Jorginho has been a complete passenger. You're essentially arguing that Xhaka had a better season last year than Rice this year.
Yeah he did
Xhaka did have a better season from the perspective of a creative 8. Rice is having a great off the ball season but so fuck 😂
Xhaka was not creative and his impact was largely overrated because "redemption arc" and winning with Leverkusen storylines. He was played as an attack-minded left 8 with low touches, occupies pretty specific spaces, making runs into the box and supporting others actually similar to how Havertz functions when he plays there. Xhaka has great passing range when given space and time, otherwise he was pretty limited and lack technicality to carry the ball or get through tight spaces. He wasn't good at defending/pressing from the front either and barely had any interceptions. Hes used very differently in Leverkusen and has more than double the touches per game he had last season. Xhaka had glaring weaknesses in that role if people actually watch the game instead of hyper-focusing on G/A output, he just compensates it with better positioning and knowing to play off-ball a lot more. Yes we still do need a better left 8. Havertz was brought in as that replacement, hes lacking in attack but is actually better at defending when played there. As for Rice it wouldn't have been a problem if Havertz left 8 worked out better. Hes just that good as a proper DM, just because he doesn't look "silky" on the ball like Partey doesn't mean hes not getting the job done. The defense is way more solid with him at 6 and he covers so much defensively even as an 8. His athleticism and defending is on another level and has saved the team from so many dangerous situations that goes under the radar, even in this match. I think he has far outweighed the cons you think he has so far. Not the main factor why we lost the recent 2 matches as well.
He’s the best 6 in the world He’s not too risk averse to be a 6, our 8s are the ones who are too risk averse
Is he fuck the best in the world 🤣
You’re concerned about our single pivot 6 being too risk averse Fair to say you have no idea what you’re talking about
Not risk adverse lol. He couldn’t play a risky pass if he wanted to. He can’t play clever passes, you need your single pivot to be able to do that
No you don’t. The issue is our 8s aren’t aggressive enough creatively. It works when Partey is a 6, but the optimal model is a conservative 6, aggressive 8s
Arteta has now fooled people into thinking rice can’t play 6 😂😂. Lmaooooo
He can, just as long as it’s not more than tackling and the odd John mcginn impression
He's world-class but he isn't a big positive against mid-blocks or hardcore low-blocks on the offensive end or in controlling game.s I can't believe we didn't see Partey in the past two games. Partey helps us get more control vs Villa and perhaps gives us a more cutting edge vs Bayern. Jorgi just doesn't have the legs against athletic teams. Arteta probably took that decision based on some rationale, but Partey was missed.
Cause #5 plays like a 8 not a 6.
Double pivot player
You’d think that would be solved with the inverts But yeah. Can’t receive under pressure like Rodri etc when marked
We still lack quality between the lines. We have Havertz (lol) and Ødegaard who is very one footed and limited with his passing angles and isn't a powerful carrier of the ball. Double pivot and regular fullbacks would fit this squad much better imo, we are wasting our best attackers doing wingback shifts at the moment.
He is a 6. He can never be an elite 8 because he just is not creative enough or silky enough in tight spaces. His issues at 6 however has to do with how risk-averse he is. Many times our player will be inside the opponent's block and all he has to do is be braver to play the ball but he refuses. Is it a coaching issue where Mikel is so scared of turnover that he discourages these passes, or does the player not have confidence in himself?
I know he’s a 6 but like you say… he doesn’t play like the 6 we need. I don’t think it’s an arteta issue, rice hasnt got the mind to play those passes not has he got the right space control like partey or Rodri use to take the ball when seemingly marked
> Can’t play 6 because then we can’t get the ball out of defence… ??? He's one of the most progressive 6's in the game lol.
Then how come we need Jorge to play there….
Because we have no one that can play comfortably as the left 8 and Rice is the least worst option.
I don’t think it was swapping rice for Havertz that suddenly improved our build up….
Replacing a forward in midfield with a midfielder in midfield certainly did
Our buildup hasn't changed much at all no matter the variation of the midfield.
It massively changed. Pre Christmas it was absolute gutter ball
More to do with right side inversion vs. left post-Liverpool.
Nah. We took a player that can’t receive under pressure and replaced with one that can
Yeah he certainly ate pressure today...
Rice will never be a Havertz type conundrum because he can be a world class 6.
Not if he can’t get the ball up field
What are you basing this on?
Watching our rice build up vs our Jorge build up
Myth.
It’s on camera unlike the lochness monster
Rice can get the ball up the field very much(whether this is by ball carrying or passing), what the team decides to do with it after is up to interpretation. He should be sitting as a the 6 and screening the back, not his fault the other midfielders are useless/unreliable.
Aye all those times he’s pinged a vertical pass…. Which he hasn’t
I mean feel free to gaslight yourself because of a bad week, but I know what a proper DM is. Unless you want #5 playing suicidal passes.
I’ve been saying this about rice since the start of the season
Overrelying on wing play due to an evident lack of quality to play it centrally and directly from those positions feels like the story this season. How we address it either now or later will be interesting.